lithium-ion battery exploding in a shop.

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45_Schofield@reddit

I charge mine in a fire bag and never leave the house with it plugged in. Best I can do.

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Ro-54@reddit (OP)

Im never charging my phone overnight again

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worromoTenoG@reddit

There are around 18 billion cellphones currently in operation around the world. Battery fires are so rare you're more likely to win the lottery twice in a row than have a battery fire.

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oulipo@reddit

That's exactly why we developed a fire-resistant casing in our company, which can sustain at least 10 min of intense battery fire, long enough to get the battery outside

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0NXXfCA2CY

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Wmharvey@reddit

Well it’s exceedingly rare if your bike is from a name manufacturer and if you don’t drop your battery or just abuse it in general.

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There’s a horrific video that pops up occasionally on CrazyFuckingVideos subreddit of a guy in an elevator with a scooter or e-bike when it catches fire. Guy didn’t survive and it is shocking (much like here) how fast and intense the fire created by these batteries can be.

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Ro-54@reddit (OP)

Nightmare. I take my e-bike up an elevator daily

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key2616@reddit

From a product liability insurance standpoint, this is the kind of thing we worry about with e-bikes. That is a very hot, very dirty fire, and the risk of bodily harm is a lot greater with this kind of fire than a household appliance (for example). Those fumes do kill people, and there's substantially more toxic smoke than a blender or hairdryer fire. I've seen more fire fatalities than bike fatalities from e-bikes in the last 5 years by a factor of about 3. That's not to say that there's something wrong with the product, just that if there's a fatality, it's more likely to be because of a fire than a collapsed fork or failed brakes like we see with standard bikes. Not to mention that the heat generated by an L/IO fire can ignite undamaged batteries nearby, and then you have an even bigger problem, just like this shop does.

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Ro-54@reddit (OP)

The e-e-bike/e-scooter industry is littered with cheap products and dangerous batteries. People buy these bikes that can go over 25 mph with crap brakes, cheap frames, and generic components. I can only imagine how cheap the batteries are.

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key2616@reddit

I'm not about to argue that you're wrong. Because you're not. The insurance companies that provide product liability for e-bike manufacturers/importers (they're treated the same because the courts treat them the same) know who the good battery makers are and who the bad ones are. And they charge the folks that are importing bad batteries with a history of fires more than folks that are buying from Samsung.

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Ro-54@reddit (OP)

I think it’s more about the manufacturer worrying about reputation instead of taking out a loan buying the cheapest bikes they can from china, then unloading them with no expectation of going further than selling them. I’d rather not buy an ebike made with this motto than risk it. A lot of people don’t care though

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Educational_Ad_3922@reddit

I cant tell if this is a shop that works on e-scooter's or if its a shop for cars that an employee brought their own e-scooter into the shop to charge.

If you're working on these batteries in a professional capacity you should be working with the battery out of the frame and set aside with a bucket of sand nearby to contain the battery should it suddenly fail.

This really doesn't happen as often as people think it does, it's just really bad when it does happen. And it's why I wish more people would push away from the 21700 or 18650 cell format in favor of safer (*by safer I mean can't enter thermal runaway) LiFePo4 or CAT cells.

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Temporary_Hamster136@reddit

Well, part of the deal,, why I won't own an American electric car,,, tools and bikes I can live with ,,, I work on these for forklifts, can't get cold or wet,,, not the answer,

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Akwardlynamedwolfman@reddit

Straight crack salesman

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just_change_it@reddit

I'm glad that guy got his entire asscrack out in time to not sustain any injuries.

A few more seconds and he would have had some roasted nuts and severe burns.

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East-Basil-6473@reddit

His name is Chet..

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MickyBee73@reddit

There sure is some "Weird Science" to these E-bike battery fires 😅

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Oghemphead@reddit

Crazy he's lucky that thing didn't explode in his face when he was trying to plug it or whatever the heck he was doing.

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newswimread@reddit

My money says he was attempting to disassemble it with something metal and punctured some cells by accident causing a short at the same time. There's heaps of videos of it happening with phone batteries for the same reason at repair shops.

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suoko@reddit

Really hope blade batteries will be the minimum default technology right from tomorrow

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Possible_Loss_767@reddit

Yeah wtf is he trying to do after it starts smoking?

”no you don’t, I’m going to finish this repair damnit!”

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s-petersen@reddit

I think he was trying to pick it up, to remove it from the building

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Ro-54@reddit (OP)

No idea but like me maybe it was a first time seeing it. I had no idea the explosion and burn was that intense. It looks like aluminum magnesium burning.

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Silent-Observer37@reddit

I had no idea the explosion and burn was that intense.

Why not? Lithium is an alkali metal, all of which are so reactive that they have intense exothermic reactions on contact with water.

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Ro-54@reddit (OP)

cause I never saw one burn until today

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Silent-Observer37@reddit

Either had I until recently, but I still remember the various alkali metals in water experiments from chemistry class in school 20 odd years ago.

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SammyUser@reddit

lithium in li-ion packs is mostly in salt form in the electrolyte, it's not like there's significant amounts of lithium in a cell, at all

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Ro-54@reddit (OP)

When I was in Iraq We had one of our Bradley get hit by an IED. They're made out of aluminum magnesium and they burned just like that. frightening

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Silent-Observer37@reddit

Lithium is in fact more reactive than both aluminium and magnesium. You don't want to be anywhere near that shit when it goes up.

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eye-0f-the-str0m@reddit

Fighting a Li-ion battery fire should be doused with water (only if safe/reasonable to actually attempt to fight it. You really should just evacuate).

Li-ion battery fire intensity has nothing to do with lithium's reactivity with water. The reaction is caused by thermal runaway (as it gets hotter it reacts faster) and oxygen is a byproduct of the reaction.

Source

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Silent-Observer37@reddit

Yes, I understand that the chemistry in Li-ion batteries is much more complex than elemental lithium. I was just using the reaction with water as an example of how reactive it is. Burning it (reacting it directly with oxygen) is an even more intense reaction. We were warned against doing that in school, even with the tiny amount we were using.

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eye-0f-the-str0m@reddit

Timely that Veritasium just did a great documentary on Li-ion batteries.

Worth a watch.

Take aways are that these batteries are generally really safe, the modern prevalence of batteries EVERYWHERE is why you're seeing stories like this.

Also, the fires burn so intense because when heated above a certain temp the reaction releases oxygen, and as the temp increases further the reaction rate increases.

A battery of this size is best to just run away. A phone battery or similar size the best option is to try and remove heat, they suggest smothering with water or dunking in a bucket. However this will only slow the reaction. Best just run away. It's not worth it blowing up in your face or hands while you fumble around trying to be a hero.

(Note that some people may say don't use water, this is incorrect. Yes, lithium is highly reactive with water, but watch the video and you'll find out actually how these batteries are made and work. Spoilers, it's not pure lithium.)

Aircraft are starting to operate with fire bags for phones and laptops.

Stay the fuck away from any fumes.

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NxPat@reddit

4:53 on a Friday… don’t get much worse than that.

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screaminporch@reddit

Dude didn't even have enough time to pull his pants up.

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KayDat@reddit

Thought I was about to watch a battery fire, didn't expect the full moon to be out

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Flush_Foot@reddit

OP forgot the NSFW tag 🌓

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UsernameTaken1701@reddit

Lithium battery fires are intense and really really difficult to extinguish.

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Ro-54@reddit (OP)

Time isn’t on your side either.

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CalligrapherOwn2544@reddit

The nice thing about this is people are reading about this fire and thinking about options for extinguishing a battery fire

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Ro-54@reddit (OP)

Same thing with me. Also when and when not to charge.

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Environmental-Fan83@reddit

Wym when and when not to charge? I bought an ebike like a month ago and it's my first e-anything. I didn't even know they can catch on fire and now I'm worried what to do because I live in an apartment on the 9th floor. To make it worse, I usually charge my bike while I sleep

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RBImGuy@reddit

get a metal box of sort (grill etc.) to contain the battery if a fire happens its sort of contained and a fire blanket and a fire extinguisher and obviously a fire alarm.

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Ro-54@reddit (OP)

My situation is the same as you. I charge overnight on the balcony of a 5 story. I feel better cause my bike and battery is quality but still

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nzaf985@reddit

Is there a storage cabinet you can buy to put all your batteries in that would contain the burn? I want to save my house in the even that one of my many lithium ion or Li-Poe4 batteries decides to get sparky?

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Ro-54@reddit (OP)

There are.

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nzaf985@reddit

Anyone have any they suggest for someone with 6 e-bikes and a shit ton of yard and power tools?

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RBImGuy@reddit

steel boxes separate them out really for storage cabinet.
or a specific place if one have a house and a yard.
I would build with bricks a fireplace type of solution to enclose if there is a fire stuff

These fires if they happen burns badly and fast

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b1gb0n312@reddit

whats the best way to put out this fire?

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UsernameTaken1701@reddit

Wait.

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UsernameTaken1701@reddit

Time.

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evernessince@reddit

The best approach is to dunk the battery in water. It won't put out the fire but it can stop the heat from compromising the entire battery, thus lessening the reaction.

Any decent lithium battery is segmented into cells and better ones typically have increased robustness to ensure that a single cell being compromised doesn't lead to a chain reaction compromising the other cells , much like you see in the video. The battery in the video likely wasn't a good one. Either it was a pouch battery or the cells were packed too close or didn't have the proper materials around them to ensure they can withstand the heat output of a failing neighbor cell.

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CerebralAccountant@reddit

Sometimes it's impossible. My safety plan for an ebike battery fire is

keep it in a fire blanket or fire bag while charging
if it starts to heat up, RUN IT OUTSIDE
let it burn in the driveway or parking lot
call the fire department

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Ivethrownallaway@reddit

A class D fire extinguisher (for reactive metals). But you have 10 seconds to grab the fire extinguisher before other stuff has caught fire.

A fire blanket can help and can be stored closer to your workplace since it's smaller than the extinguisher. If you grab the blanket immediately and cover the battery as it starts to smoke, it can give you a few more seconds to get to the extinguisher.

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askvictor@reddit

Would a blanket actually do anything? The fire doesn't need any oxygen to burn, so smothering it wouldn't do much. Perhaps stop other things catching fire, but the lithium fire is going to eclipse other things burning...

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RainbowUnicorn0228@reddit

Yes the blanket will help keep the fire from spreading. A special one made for lithium batteries is way better at it than a regular one. But even a regular one will help for a bit.

https://youtu.be/jMb8aaczn_g?si=UnG0S9aMJBNVl-ky

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Ivethrownallaway@reddit

Oh the blanket isn't going to put out the fire on its own. It's just an extra shield for the flames, but I agree that a common kitchen fire blanket isn't going to last very long on top of a burning battery.

Fire blankets though, are cheap, quite small, don't require maintenance, and can be fixed in many places. In the kitchen obviously, under a table or worksurface, in the driver's door storage in your car, your garage.

Call me paranoïd, but I like having as many firefighting/fire survival tools as possible. Fire alarms, blankets, extinguishers... Strategically placed, and I check on them every year, and rehearse the moves. With the blankets, you can technically practise with them and fold them again in their box. You just have to take it out delicately the first time to see how it's folded, so you can put it back the same way.

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eye-0f-the-str0m@reddit

A bettery of this size, run. There is very little you can do, and anything you might be able to do isn't worth the risk of it exploding in your face/hands.

A phone sized battery, if you're on a plane, douse with water or put into a specialised container.

Either way, avoid the fumes.

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oulipo@reddit

As we developed our batteries we realized the danger of li-ion batteries, and we managed to design a casing that's strong enough to sustain a full-blown fire for at least 10 min, which gives you ample time to either leave the place, or put the battery outside,

check it here if you're interested https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0NXXfCA2CY

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babblefish111@reddit

I thought at first that he was working on the battery and caused the malfunction, but looking again I think he was just changing a tire and wasn't doing anything with the battery at all.

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EquivalentAd9761@reddit

What would cause this to happen

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sockpuppets@reddit

A crack

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babblefish111@reddit

That must have been the problem. I could definitely see a crack in the video.

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Ro-54@reddit (OP)

Cheaply made batteries, heat, and chemicals mixing.

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CakeTester@reddit

Or water leaking in somewhere or physical damage causing a short and then thermal runaway.

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WPGJets82@reddit

Remember kids, just say no to crack

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SammyUser@reddit

i mean honestly, unless your charger or BMS is faulty, there should be pretty much a near zero risk of that, about the same likelihood your phone, laptop or power tool batteries go up in flames

ofcourse there are other factors, how well were those packs made? did they even have a bms at all? (some ultra cheap crap would maybe not have a bms at all)

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LeonMust@reddit

Lithium Ion fires are no joke. I take it very seriously and I charge my ebike battery and escooter battery in my fireplace.

If this is your first time seeing a Lithium Ion fire, then I guess it's better late than never but I'm not a big fan of that type of battery. Just this year alone, there were 43 fires in a airplane cabins this year and 15 of those were caused by Lithium Ion charging banks. I don't even want to fly anymore because of those things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvAs3fz84rU&pp=ygUQc3RhY2hlZCB0cmFpbmluZw%3D%3D

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evernessince@reddit

Typically higher quality batteries will do a better job of compartmentalizing cells to drastically reduce the reaction. What happened in the video only happens if the entire battery is compromised.

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MandoBRC@reddit

He got his Crack out of there just in time.

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DarkMorph18@reddit

Wow this scares the shit out of me

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Rominions@reddit

We should be moving away from lithium and using sodium batteries.

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TangoDeltaFoxtrot@reddit

And this is why you don’t buy cheap crap online.

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RainbowUnicorn0228@reddit

Lithium’s Battery safety

-do not over charge

-inspect battery frequently and do not use it there is moisture, cracks, or swelling.

-do not expose to liquid, extreme heat or cold

always use the correct charger and inspect regularly for signs of wear.

-avoid dropping the battery or hitting it with or against anything hard.

-make sure your battery has the correct certifications and passe safety testing

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Embarrassed-Year9199@reddit

good times

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RED_TECH_KNIGHT@reddit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISvdKHMF7Ak

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halfercode@reddit

Lordy; not only was he trapped against the counter, but even once he'd worked out what was happening, he was still mighty casual about stepping back. Lots of flammable items adjacent to the working area too.

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Ro-54@reddit (OP)

Most car rims are made out of aluminum. I can only imagine what would have happened if the rubber and aluminum caught fire.

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Original_Cow6270@reddit

Looks like there's a huge crack

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halfercode@reddit

Thankfully these fires are rarer than a full moon on Uranus.

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Adler221@reddit

Yup, those batteries burn extremely hot and extremely fast. My Rad bike battery did the same thing, and only the exterior of the house was left.

I absolutely will not buy something that is not UL certified anymore.

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Euphoric-Meal@reddit

Wow, was it an original rad power battery? One of the old ones before they were UL certified? Was it charging?

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Adler221@reddit

Yes, it was the original battery for the Rad Runner, I got it in 2020, and no the battery was not plugged in. The official fire report said it was the battery, but they are scratching their heads because it was not plugged in.

The heat from the battery fire was intense. As in if my friend did not get out of the house when this happened, that would be it.

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Ro-54@reddit (OP)

Nothing should be allowed in the country without the certification. Glad you and your family are okay. sounds scary

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TheDarkClaw@reddit

This is why bike companies only work on products they sell . Or in my Case, Bosch ebikes. And a rare Case perhaps not work on anything battery related. Not to some insurance companies don't offer ebike insurance service for businesses

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FreshSetOfBatteries@reddit

Or just work on the bikes without the battery installed?

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Ro-54@reddit (OP)

Insurance isn't great when you're dead. That guy was very lucky

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Ro-54@reddit (OP)

I now know why fire departments hate these batteries.

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blackhawk00001@reddit

What was he working on? Did the shop use a charger meant for a higher voltage system?

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Ro-54@reddit (OP)

it looks like a tire or car shop. Maybe its his personal

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