Crucible went bankrupt under Biden. Im not a fan of trump at all, can't stand him. But let's keep our biases to a minimum, he's awful and shouldn't be president, but he's not the cause of every evil known to the world. All politicians at a national suck and are controlled by Israel.
I just remember seeing the release of whoever bought them had 0 plans of working at the plant and they were foreign owned. Didn’t know if they had anything in the US but assumed not.
There's actually a lot of European companies that have manufacturing plants etc in the US, especially chemical companies since a) less restrictions and b) cheaper labor.
Top comment from the other post worth noting. Seems like this isn't about a decrease in demand for steel as much as it's about coal being phased out of the manufacturing process. The people who rely on these jobs will need support but supply chain impact should be limited:
So, there were two big reasons the Democrats tried to help ween Appalachia off of coal (and they were not well received...)
Power plant coal is way easier and cheaper to mine right now via open pits in places like Wyoming.
Coke coal for steel production is being phased out. Some sources estimate that Electric Arc Furnaces (EAFs) will account for 80-85% of US steel production as of this year.
It's not that no steel is being made -- we just don't use coal anymore in the process. Everyone knew this was coming and it was apparently impossible to communicate.
Total steel production in the US is roughly in line with where it has been for prior years.
Didn't even need to lie. Just say, "Hey...your industry is dying a slow death, these jobs are going to be lost. But we got you. We're going to bring training to you for other industries.
Wind is very viable in West Virginia. Throw some subsidies to jump start wind in the area, bring in training for these guys to work on turnbines, army Corp of engineers if you have to, and show that you give a shot about these workers and their families.
This isn't rocket science... But somehow the old guard just can't find a way to speak to the concerns of working class Americans that shows them the support they need.
They did that along with remarks that Fox News was about isolate and use. As soon as the "get over it" kind of message was spoken they were done.
Fox News is a dumpster fire of lies and dog shit. Some Dems just can't help but toss them softballs to edit into propaganda. 🤷 Keep It Simple Stupid is something Democrats seem incapable of doing
So you agree that FOX is a dumpster fire, and that Dems put out exactly the messaging you said they should, and you also agree that R voters tend to believe a lot of “dog shit” to use your words, but you blame Democrats for all of it.
I blame Democrats for not being able to articulate a message without saying some stupid shit that Fox News can run for a few weeks to their idiot viewers.
And I never said they put out the messaging they should. They didn't. Their messaging sucks. What does that mean? That means they are unable to properly articulate their ideas and plans in a easy that normal people understand and can get behind them.
I think you're overlooking the role of our bought and paid for media, and the general level of ignorance about pretty much everything when it comes to Republican voters.
Republicans only win when they cheat, by Gerrymandering, voter suppression, disenfranchisement, propaganda, voting machine shenanigans, and everything under the sun which might give them a percentage point somewhere.
Our only real defense from this is Congress, whose role it is to act as a check and balance on executive and judicial power, and with the exceptions of a few bright spots like Bernie, AOC and Jasmine Crockett, they are spineless, and possibly bought off themselves.
Blaming Democratic voters or "progressives" for everything is what Republicans already do, they don't need any help with that.
I disagree. People are generally only interested in hearing what they want to hear. Dems have so many different demographics of people - and if they talk about one, the others feel indignant.
The message for all those people is the same. It's a working class message. They don't need to drum up support for sections of the party. They need to speak to the commonality of all those within it.
They alienate others by pandering to groups. Screw that. Speak to the shit that matters most to working class people. We need to get you paid. We need to make housing and essentials affordable. We need to see you stop getting bent over in every aspect of your life.
Moderates are not going to cut it going forward....this is becoming more and more evident as more and more of the old guard dies off or fades into obscurity.
Democrats also have complex solutions to complex problems, which the average Joe doesn't have the attention span for. Additionally, anything that calls for any form of inconvenience or sacrifice (paper straws, electric vehicles, electric stoves, eating less red meat, etc.) are instantly met with indignation.
People consider the conservation of our planet as a personal affront to their "freedom" and run into the arms of politicians that tell them what they want to hear - even though it's all bullshit not backed by any coherent or viable plan.
The problem has more to do with education and media literacy than it does with Democrats' messaging. There is a reason Republicans want to keep the population dumb.
I do have to give republicans a win on long term strategy, they wanted dumb population and full control of the media for decades and finally they got both. They are reaping well deserved fruits of their despicable labor
They’ve basically been conditioned by right wing media to accept their side at face value and always assume that Dems are lying.
Just look at what happened in Texas. Biden admin sent money to help with weather monitoring and emergency alerts. The money was turned down because the people there have been brainwashed.
Then Trumps admin guts the NOAA, and people die and they shrug as if nothing could have been done.
“Sheeple” was always a projection for how conservatives think.
Solar is the cheapest, quickest to build, and cleanest to run electric power you can get. A coal electric plant requires mining, cleaning the coal( with water ), transport the coal by train, burn the coal, and then truck out the waste product to a dump. The dump? Conveniently located next to a river, waiting for the next "100 year flood" to wash the waste away and... Pollute your water with mercury, uranium, arsenic, also, kills the fish.
Dems did their best to get you guys to walk away from a 100 year old technology to new jobs, also, with educational grants.
But, at some point the economy is not going to ignore the cheapest generator of electric power. Most CEO's will not make political decisions that hurt shareholders.
You can vote for Repubs that ignore global warming, but, you also can't walk away from the floods, the hurricanes, heat waves, now heat domes that just sit on your state for 90+ days, and record high temps, like 140F. What food grows in 140F temps? NOTHING.
For those of you still doubting Global Warming, there's a Ton of home Rebuilds needed in Florida. Enjoy the home insurance market walking away from the state, because the state is uninsurable with this level of global warming damage.
Also, the US SouthWest Drought, Thanks Global Warming.
Also, the East Coast "flooded" with CANADIAN Forest Burn Down Smoke!
Today, global warming is everywhere.
But, Yeah, I'm sorry you lost your jobs, but this is 45 years coming since Reagan took down the solar panels from the Whitehouse. Carl Sagan warned use in the 80s. How many DECADES of Warning do we need before we ACT?
The replies to it are also quite interesting. Several people noting that their employer is just shutting down U.S. production in favor of producing in Europe or Canada. Squares with the financial data I’ve read showing that international trade is actually increasing, they’re just cutting the U.S. out of it. Instead of Japan trading with the U.S. and Brazil trading with the U.S., Japan just trades with Brazil and cuts us out of the loop.
A lot of American multinationals actually sell more product abroad than in the US, which is logical when you consider that we’re only about 3-4% of the world population. If they have to pay a tariff to cross the border, they’ll just make things where the customers are.
And little further down, someone else mentioned that EAFs are used to recycle steel and since the process isn't recycling 100% yet, new steel production is needed and they do use the coal op mentioned.
However, despite plans for cleaner facilities, steelmakers don’t intend to retire their dirtiest assets. Several of the dozen coal-fired blast furnaces still operating are slated to undergo costly relinings before 2030 — effectively committing to operating for many more years. A retirement plan has been announced for only one.
So coal seems to be used for the purpose of making steel currently, which aligns with cross-linked OP's point that coal mines shutting down more closely aligns with potential global economy slowdown rather than methane facilities or EAFs retiring coal facilities.
Makes sense. We sell to all kinds of manufacturers and used to have a whole steel portion of our website that outlined this whole process. It got pulled in like 2018 with a site redesign and never came back the way we recreated other industries.
70% of the steel in the US is made in an EAF and doesn't need metallurgical coal. That's going to continue to skew over time - the last two big met coal users - US Steel and Cleveland-Cliffs - only really do so because for decades that was the only way to make exposed automotive steel - EAF quality wouldn't cut it.
Now, AM/NS Calvert is making auto sheet in an EAF for the first time at scale. USS has Big River, and a new Hyundai EAF is going in. Cleveland-Cliffs is on the ropes, in general.
Another user had a good answer- it's a specific type of coal that is used in the production of steel, and they are seeing layoffs because the steel industry is becoming more self-sufficient than supplier-dependent by switching from coal firing to electric arc furnaces to achieve the same steel production volume. Essentially, the industry is changing and this has been a known existential threat to metallurgical coal producers for some time, it's just that now there are enough electric furnaces to notably reduce metallurgical coal purchases. This has little to nothing to do with the tariffs.
I never claimed that production was down in the USA?
There have been so many tariffs I can't keep track of them all, I don't know every step in the steel production line other than iron and coal; a tariff on a completely different product may influence that production line.
Not avoiding your question, I'm just too dumb to know the answer definitively.
From my knowledge, foreign companies are switching markets to avoid tariffs whenever possible (as to be expected). I have just read a few articles and am otherwise ignorant
Not OP so I don't know but Canad, Mexico and Brazil were buying almost all US steel in 2024: https://www.usimportdata.com/blogs/usa-steel-imports-data-list-of-steel-importers-in-usa
A lot of coal was getting exported which was propping up the industry from lowering demand in the US. I have a feeling china and India are going to be buying less coal for some reason
Coal has been on the way out for a LONG time. Cheap electricity from Canada's Hydro plants in combination with a drive for more efficient heating from Electric Arc Furnaces and Natural Gas have been driving down the need for hot burning coal.
Unfortunately, with the sudden rise in electricity costs from Canada, the majority of coal plants have already been shuttered - it would literally cost more to bring them back online than to pay the higher costs.
When you take an industry that's delicately balanced and hit it with a wrecking ball of random tariffs, it tends to collapse. Coal and steel exports are projected to decline this year due to tariffs ( although steam coal exports were noted as increasing over the April/June timeframe) - which is going to trigger closures of companies trying to get out of the industry while they can still salvage some value from the hardware and deeds.
Coal, as an industry, hasn't been bouncing back very well from slumps - increasing exports of steam coal has been stemming the tide, but it's been on a downward trend for many years.
The steel industry is has been transitioning from coal fired furnaces to electric arc furnaces. The coal companies in the post are ones that produce the coal for making steel, which is different from the coal used for power generation.
Steel is used a lot in buildings, building materials, cars and vehicles, heavy machinery and some consumer goods (but I doubt carbon fiber frames for high end bikes are to blame for the drop). So it's going to be reduced demand somewhere there.
Your response has a lot of assumptions that may not be true: the initial post is true that companies are shutting down, that they're doing it because of declining sales, that declining sales are due to reduced steel production, that US steel exports are significant and declining, that the decline is due to tariffs, that American manufacturing has declined (it hasn't), etc.
It was accelerated by tarrifs, not caused by. Tariffs (essentially taxes on the american consumer) that destroy the already deteriorating lower/middle class spending power are just about the worst thing you can do when the economy is already sputtering.
Putin is very happy that the American economy is dying. Asset Krasnov is doing Putin's bidding. Also Bibi was caught on camera saying he would "bleed America dry" so he's happy too.
I think Jesse Welles knows about Dark Enlightenment Theory because his lyrics in reference to the tech bros seem to knows what's up. Check out his awesome songs here
So you are saying it was intentional? Yeah that'd be right I'm sure one of his cronies makes money buying the remnants of these companies up cheap and selling it for scrap.
• Was mentioned in the Epstein flight log 7 times and admitted to being his friend. Even rented Epstein’s plane.
• Pleaded the fifth 450 times
• Has 34 felony convictions for fraud
• Has 27 sexual assault allegations, including a 13 year old child
• Has 6 bankruptcies
• Has had over 4000 legal cases involving himself or his businesses
• Has 5 Draft Deferments
• Has 4 indictments
• Has had 2 impeachments
• Has 2 companies convicted of tax fraud
• Had a fake university shut down
• Had a fake charity shut down
There is also the one sexual assault charge. The one that did not technically meet the requirements for rape in the state at the time, but would now since they fixed that definition.
Fun Fact: All the coal in the world was made between 360 million years ago and 300 million years ago.
360 million years ago plants decided to make lignin. Lignan is the stuff that makes wood, wood. Before that the plants were kind of fleshy and short. The lignan making ability spread fast all over the planet. Microbes didn't know what to do with this lignin and couldn't eat it. A tree could fall and 100,000 years later it would still be laying there. I can't imagine what that would look like. Bullions of trees just laying around.
Then about 300 million years ago microbes figured out how to eat lignin and that ability spread fast all over the world because there was a LOT to eat. Once they figured that out, no more coal.
A way of thinking about burning fossil fuels, is think about how much energy hits the surface of the Earth every day from the sun. Plants don't really pull very much out of the ground. Most of their mass comes from sunshine and the air. 60,000,000 years of concentrated sunlight energy is what we are digging up and unleashing.
Yeah...the transition to electric arc furnaces has been going on for decades. It was inevitable that at some point most coal mines would become unprofitable and shutdown, even this supposedly uniquely hot burning variety
Coals pretty much dead, and the writing has been on the walls for years. The past few years have been charity but those in the coal industry should get out before fission tech becomes the norm
Steel production in this country is not slowing down at all. Coal is a dying industry, period, regardless of what the idiot in the oval thinks. Hopefully these types of areas can find a different industry to bring them back.
that's what the current admin's tariffs are doing. I know at least 3 people including myself who lost their job in the past few months because businesses just couldn't handle it.
I suppose it's good that this is being talked about because everything that this fascist government does should be, and people who are new to these concepts might not be aware. but come on, end-stage capitalism and fighting climate change with greener energy is old news.
The current tariffs not even a year old has caused years and years of debt for the steel and coal industry causing them to close? That’s what you are saying?
This coal isn’t for energy needs but steel needs for manufacture needs. But glad you brought up energy. My state is currently paying over 100% premium on energy after closing our coal plant in June and having to buy energy from PA. Google “BGE Maryland price hikes” to find the lovely cost of green energy!
okay so you're saying this has been a long time coming?
it's possible that they saw the tariffs as the nail in the coffin that they couldn't recover from before the next election. it's made manufacturing everything even more expensive. we obviously need steel, but the US is only the 4th largest steel manufacturer, the bulk of it comes from China, Japan and India, and that's where the tariffs have targeted.
I'm sorry your state has shitty energy policy, but that's yet another symptom of end-stage capitalism. corrupt government officials would rather prop up a dying industry for short-term financial gain or votes, instead of considering what's best long-term, leaving the rest of us to pay for their mistakes.
I mean the steel plant that I know of and have referenced, crucible, basically admitted defeat in January from the videos I remember. From memory they filed for bankruptcy the year prior at some point as well. Little googling shows in December they filed after years of built up debt. They talked about a huge decline that actually caused bankruptcy in the 2000s but tried to recover, just couldn’t. They made steel that was mostly used for tools and automotive industry, honestly some of the best steel for tools. They will be greatly missed by me. But can’t blame tariffs on this one. There is a clear decline of US steel and it’s all just happening this year in a pile. You don’t blame someone in the hot seat for a decline since early 2000s. Blame him for anything else you want immigration, terrible tax bill, selling off fed owned land whatever but this is something of a different beast. I get everyone wants a wolf. But don’t cry wolf for no reason. Blame current admin for all the other problems, but not ones they had 0 control over other than big time bail outs.
Steel production is a weird thing in the US. Everyone wants it, no one wants it by them. My area is currently fighting steel being brought back to the area after having it for years then closing up shop. No one wants to deal with the environmental issues and wants it to be someone else’s problem. It’s like anything else, most agrees windmills are good but no one wants the eyesore.
It’s only “intel” to someone who literally does not pay any attention to the outside world.
Donnie Dipshit’s gleefully fucking up the economy and his lemming base will continue to eat an economic shit sandwhich to “own the libs” or whatever. The economy is already fucked and it’s only going to get worse while we have the world’s most malicious moron at the helm. Good news is, Russia and China will be more than happy to step in to fill the void left by the US pissing away all its power and influence.
Most of these steel plants that are closing are closing because of debt occurred in past years, not in months. Where that decline of demand has happened over years or even decades. Don’t let politics get in the way of facts. You call out people who don’t pay attention while not understanding what you’re commenting on.
I am not a coal expert haha I just knew a lot of coal was made with steel due to a buddy’s father and family friends working in the industry, and googled the figure to be sure! Sorry if I came off that way. I just know a little about the industry.
Sorry (not sorry) for your local struggles. I wish that I had suggestions of where to move or what industries are doing well. but there are none to give. Other than start kissing the "Queen" Donnas ass.
kawthar222@reddit
No shit
bikumz@reddit
Didn’t an iron workers shop just shut down that made high end steel? I think Crucible or something. They produced a lot of steel.
Deicide1031@reddit
Yeah but Erasteel acquired some of there of assets so technically they are not 100% gone.
refbatch09@reddit
Crucible went bankrupt under Biden. Im not a fan of trump at all, can't stand him. But let's keep our biases to a minimum, he's awful and shouldn't be president, but he's not the cause of every evil known to the world. All politicians at a national suck and are controlled by Israel.
ytman@reddit
So French and Japanese steel in the US? Lolol
thefaehost@reddit
But with American coal. Even our produces aren’t the product of any single country
bikumz@reddit
They just bought it for the patents right? Like that’s a confirmed thing and production will be moved overseas?
Deicide1031@reddit
You can’t move the most valuable aspects of crucible’s assets from the USA because the industry just doesn’t work that work that way.
As a result Erasteel is operating “a bit” in the U.S. but it’s still odd this news never got out, I thought everyone knew.
bikumz@reddit
I just remember seeing the release of whoever bought them had 0 plans of working at the plant and they were foreign owned. Didn’t know if they had anything in the US but assumed not.
sleepytipi@reddit
There's actually a lot of European companies that have manufacturing plants etc in the US, especially chemical companies since a) less restrictions and b) cheaper labor.
Johnny-Unitas@reddit
Funnily enough, US Steel has plants in Canada and are now facing tariffs, but a European company can buy plants in the US.
Appropriate_Ad_1429@reddit
Yh I felt like that when Kraft bought Cadbury and that's how we got chocolate cheese 😔👎
jar1967@reddit
The steel industry is upgrading to more efficient electric furnaces. Taking away one of the last big markets for coal.
EvilBrynn@reddit
Isn’t this a good thing? Moving away from fossil fuels?
Hot-Profession4091@reddit
There’s still anthracite? I thought we had dug it all up, to be honest.
jujutsu-die-sen@reddit
Top comment from the other post worth noting. Seems like this isn't about a decrease in demand for steel as much as it's about coal being phased out of the manufacturing process. The people who rely on these jobs will need support but supply chain impact should be limited:
Power plant coal is way easier and cheaper to mine right now via open pits in places like Wyoming.
Coke coal for steel production is being phased out. Some sources estimate that Electric Arc Furnaces (EAFs) will account for 80-85% of US steel production as of this year.
It's not that no steel is being made -- we just don't use coal anymore in the process. Everyone knew this was coming and it was apparently impossible to communicate.
Total steel production in the US is roughly in line with where it has been for prior years.
Captjimmyjames@reddit
Dems weren't well received because the message was, "coal is going away, quit being about it and get over it."
Democrats suck hard at messaging.
Commercial_Cost5528@reddit
That's what you wanted to hear. Harris spoke repeatedly about maintaining these jobs.
Captjimmyjames@reddit
Perfect example here as Clinton responds to someone upset. Dems suck at messaging. She gave a crap sound bite to Fox News and their viewers got to see it a billion times with some dbag telling them Dems hate coal miners.
Tyhgujgt@reddit
Should have just lied like Trump.
Apparently telling how it is, telling what we all think is not the right messaging either
Captjimmyjames@reddit
Didn't even need to lie. Just say, "Hey...your industry is dying a slow death, these jobs are going to be lost. But we got you. We're going to bring training to you for other industries.
Wind is very viable in West Virginia. Throw some subsidies to jump start wind in the area, bring in training for these guys to work on turnbines, army Corp of engineers if you have to, and show that you give a shot about these workers and their families.
This isn't rocket science... But somehow the old guard just can't find a way to speak to the concerns of working class Americans that shows them the support they need.
Tyhgujgt@reddit
SHE DID THAT AND GOT COMPLETELY OBLITERATED IN THESE STATES
Orwells_Roses@reddit
Nonsense. They did those things. R voters are just conditioned to believe that anything which contradicts FOX or CNN (now) is fake.
Captjimmyjames@reddit
They did that along with remarks that Fox News was about isolate and use. As soon as the "get over it" kind of message was spoken they were done.
Fox News is a dumpster fire of lies and dog shit. Some Dems just can't help but toss them softballs to edit into propaganda. 🤷 Keep It Simple Stupid is something Democrats seem incapable of doing
Orwells_Roses@reddit
So you agree that FOX is a dumpster fire, and that Dems put out exactly the messaging you said they should, and you also agree that R voters tend to believe a lot of “dog shit” to use your words, but you blame Democrats for all of it.
OK.
Captjimmyjames@reddit
I blame Democrats for not being able to articulate a message without saying some stupid shit that Fox News can run for a few weeks to their idiot viewers.
And I never said they put out the messaging they should. They didn't. Their messaging sucks. What does that mean? That means they are unable to properly articulate their ideas and plans in a easy that normal people understand and can get behind them.
Orwells_Roses@reddit
I think you're overlooking the role of our bought and paid for media, and the general level of ignorance about pretty much everything when it comes to Republican voters.
Republicans only win when they cheat, by Gerrymandering, voter suppression, disenfranchisement, propaganda, voting machine shenanigans, and everything under the sun which might give them a percentage point somewhere.
Our only real defense from this is Congress, whose role it is to act as a check and balance on executive and judicial power, and with the exceptions of a few bright spots like Bernie, AOC and Jasmine Crockett, they are spineless, and possibly bought off themselves.
Blaming Democratic voters or "progressives" for everything is what Republicans already do, they don't need any help with that.
Commercial_Cost5528@reddit
The fact you had to dig 8 years to find one clip from a candidate who hasn't run for president the last two cycles is very telling.
Captjimmyjames@reddit
Googling a clip relavent to the conversation wasn't much of a dig.....
Commercial_Cost5528@reddit
Buddy, I'm not commenting on your personal time spent lol. I'm commenting on the fact the only example you can muster is from nearly a decade ago.
yellowstickypad@reddit
Let’s be honest, we’re grossly simplifying and generalizing in 2-3 sentences what was likely years of conversations, town halls and negotiations.
Captjimmyjames@reddit
💯 they've sucked at messaging for a very long time.
syynapt1k@reddit
I disagree. People are generally only interested in hearing what they want to hear. Dems have so many different demographics of people - and if they talk about one, the others feel indignant.
Captjimmyjames@reddit
The message for all those people is the same. It's a working class message. They don't need to drum up support for sections of the party. They need to speak to the commonality of all those within it.
They alienate others by pandering to groups. Screw that. Speak to the shit that matters most to working class people. We need to get you paid. We need to make housing and essentials affordable. We need to see you stop getting bent over in every aspect of your life.
Moderates are not going to cut it going forward....this is becoming more and more evident as more and more of the old guard dies off or fades into obscurity.
Tyhgujgt@reddit
Nah, the difference is that republicans lie through their teeth, promise impossible, blame the innocent.
Democrats are just too based in reality to have a competitive messaging against this barrage of shameless lies
syynapt1k@reddit
Democrats also have complex solutions to complex problems, which the average Joe doesn't have the attention span for. Additionally, anything that calls for any form of inconvenience or sacrifice (paper straws, electric vehicles, electric stoves, eating less red meat, etc.) are instantly met with indignation.
People consider the conservation of our planet as a personal affront to their "freedom" and run into the arms of politicians that tell them what they want to hear - even though it's all bullshit not backed by any coherent or viable plan.
The problem has more to do with education and media literacy than it does with Democrats' messaging. There is a reason Republicans want to keep the population dumb.
Tyhgujgt@reddit
I do have to give republicans a win on long term strategy, they wanted dumb population and full control of the media for decades and finally they got both. They are reaping well deserved fruits of their despicable labor
DwarvenRedshirt@reddit
Also, "Learn to code".
LakeSun@reddit
That worked if you wanted it too.
But, with AI?
candylandmine@reddit
Republicans love someone who tells it like it is until someone tells it to them.
Rakatango@reddit
They’ve basically been conditioned by right wing media to accept their side at face value and always assume that Dems are lying.
Just look at what happened in Texas. Biden admin sent money to help with weather monitoring and emergency alerts. The money was turned down because the people there have been brainwashed.
Then Trumps admin guts the NOAA, and people die and they shrug as if nothing could have been done.
“Sheeple” was always a projection for how conservatives think.
emseefely@reddit
Steel is definitely slowing down though. Cleveland cliffs have closed several plants the first half of this year alone.
LakeSun@reddit
Solar is the cheapest, quickest to build, and cleanest to run electric power you can get. A coal electric plant requires mining, cleaning the coal( with water ), transport the coal by train, burn the coal, and then truck out the waste product to a dump. The dump? Conveniently located next to a river, waiting for the next "100 year flood" to wash the waste away and... Pollute your water with mercury, uranium, arsenic, also, kills the fish.
Dems did their best to get you guys to walk away from a 100 year old technology to new jobs, also, with educational grants.
But, at some point the economy is not going to ignore the cheapest generator of electric power. Most CEO's will not make political decisions that hurt shareholders.
You can vote for Repubs that ignore global warming, but, you also can't walk away from the floods, the hurricanes, heat waves, now heat domes that just sit on your state for 90+ days, and record high temps, like 140F. What food grows in 140F temps? NOTHING.
For those of you still doubting Global Warming, there's a Ton of home Rebuilds needed in Florida. Enjoy the home insurance market walking away from the state, because the state is uninsurable with this level of global warming damage.
Also, the US SouthWest Drought, Thanks Global Warming.
Also, the East Coast "flooded" with CANADIAN Forest Burn Down Smoke!
Today, global warming is everywhere.
But, Yeah, I'm sorry you lost your jobs, but this is 45 years coming since Reagan took down the solar panels from the Whitehouse. Carl Sagan warned use in the 80s. How many DECADES of Warning do we need before we ACT?
Rakatango@reddit
Once again, Democrats trying to help people who don’t vote for them and getting fucked over.
Tyhgujgt@reddit
It's the democrat's fault to put up two candidates with no charisma which absolutely randomly coincided with them being women
nostrademons@reddit
The replies to it are also quite interesting. Several people noting that their employer is just shutting down U.S. production in favor of producing in Europe or Canada. Squares with the financial data I’ve read showing that international trade is actually increasing, they’re just cutting the U.S. out of it. Instead of Japan trading with the U.S. and Brazil trading with the U.S., Japan just trades with Brazil and cuts us out of the loop.
A lot of American multinationals actually sell more product abroad than in the US, which is logical when you consider that we’re only about 3-4% of the world population. If they have to pay a tariff to cross the border, they’ll just make things where the customers are.
monster1151@reddit
And little further down, someone else mentioned that EAFs are used to recycle steel and since the process isn't recycling 100% yet, new steel production is needed and they do use the coal op mentioned.
Doctor_President@reddit
Per this article, all new capacity currently slated to come online in the us from 2025 out uses methane. And a big chunk of global new capacity too.
monster1151@reddit
Article you linked says this at the end:
So coal seems to be used for the purpose of making steel currently, which aligns with cross-linked OP's point that coal mines shutting down more closely aligns with potential global economy slowdown rather than methane facilities or EAFs retiring coal facilities.
Ricky_Ventura@reddit
Actually it's down 9.3% from the peak in 2019 and another similar peak in 2020 and trending downwards on the 5 year.
On the 10 year it's ytd median is sligtly above the 2016.
iridescent-shimmer@reddit
Makes sense. We sell to all kinds of manufacturers and used to have a whole steel portion of our website that outlined this whole process. It got pulled in like 2018 with a site redesign and never came back the way we recreated other industries.
SeaWeedSkis@reddit
Get outta here with your logic and facts and whatnot. 😉
I appreciate the summary. Thanks.
torklugnutz@reddit
https://www.wesa.fm/environment-energy/2025-08-11/clairton-coke-works-us-steel-explosion?utm_campaign=npr&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_term=nprnews&fbclid=IwY2xjawMHKzJleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHkFSi6I4jSL_11hSqlNzSeMwyUNPsUASlAEsbmX13kMTI-KwZCB-cM-wnS6b_aem_UrgordeNfTZBnpfS5uGRvA
Masada72@reddit
And the largest coke plant in the country just had a major explosion
https://www.wpxi.com/news/local/explosion-reported-us-steel-clairton-coke-works-multiple-people-injured/FDX2T42G7FF33NUPSTVA3XOIPI/
Thigmotropism2@reddit
70% of the steel in the US is made in an EAF and doesn't need metallurgical coal. That's going to continue to skew over time - the last two big met coal users - US Steel and Cleveland-Cliffs - only really do so because for decades that was the only way to make exposed automotive steel - EAF quality wouldn't cut it.
Now, AM/NS Calvert is making auto sheet in an EAF for the first time at scale. USS has Big River, and a new Hyundai EAF is going in. Cleveland-Cliffs is on the ropes, in general.
PokeyDiesFirst@reddit
Does anyone with experience or insight into the industry know why this is happening?
TK-369@reddit
I have no experience or insight, but have read about extensive tariff issues around steel (which coal is used to forge).
ftr-mmrs@reddit
OK, that is the EO to impose a 25% tarriff on steel and aluminum.
But I am a simple person. Can you explain why that is resulting in a reduction of production for US steel?
PokeyDiesFirst@reddit
Another user had a good answer- it's a specific type of coal that is used in the production of steel, and they are seeing layoffs because the steel industry is becoming more self-sufficient than supplier-dependent by switching from coal firing to electric arc furnaces to achieve the same steel production volume. Essentially, the industry is changing and this has been a known existential threat to metallurgical coal producers for some time, it's just that now there are enough electric furnaces to notably reduce metallurgical coal purchases. This has little to nothing to do with the tariffs.
ftr-mmrs@reddit
Thanks. This makes a lot more sense.
TK-369@reddit
I never claimed that production was down in the USA?
There have been so many tariffs I can't keep track of them all, I don't know every step in the steel production line other than iron and coal; a tariff on a completely different product may influence that production line.
ftr-mmrs@reddit
No, but the OP did.
PokeyDiesFirst@reddit
Is this a reduction in export steel purchases?
TK-369@reddit
Not avoiding your question, I'm just too dumb to know the answer definitively.
From my knowledge, foreign companies are switching markets to avoid tariffs whenever possible (as to be expected). I have just read a few articles and am otherwise ignorant
Boring-Philosophy-46@reddit
Not OP so I don't know but Canad, Mexico and Brazil were buying almost all US steel in 2024: https://www.usimportdata.com/blogs/usa-steel-imports-data-list-of-steel-importers-in-usa
dramaking37@reddit
A lot of coal was getting exported which was propping up the industry from lowering demand in the US. I have a feeling china and India are going to be buying less coal for some reason
kozmolov@reddit
RUMP stupidity.
PokeyDiesFirst@reddit
That would be unsurprising, but I’m looking for an economic analysis, not political anecdotes.
SurviveYourAdults@reddit
one and the same these days.
tinkerghost1@reddit
In short, that IS the economic analysis.
Coal has been on the way out for a LONG time. Cheap electricity from Canada's Hydro plants in combination with a drive for more efficient heating from Electric Arc Furnaces and Natural Gas have been driving down the need for hot burning coal.
Unfortunately, with the sudden rise in electricity costs from Canada, the majority of coal plants have already been shuttered - it would literally cost more to bring them back online than to pay the higher costs.
When you take an industry that's delicately balanced and hit it with a wrecking ball of random tariffs, it tends to collapse. Coal and steel exports are projected to decline this year due to tariffs ( although steam coal exports were noted as increasing over the April/June timeframe) - which is going to trigger closures of companies trying to get out of the industry while they can still salvage some value from the hardware and deeds.
Coal, as an industry, hasn't been bouncing back very well from slumps - increasing exports of steam coal has been stemming the tide, but it's been on a downward trend for many years.
s1gnalZer0@reddit
The steel industry is has been transitioning from coal fired furnaces to electric arc furnaces. The coal companies in the post are ones that produce the coal for making steel, which is different from the coal used for power generation.
Boring-Philosophy-46@reddit
Steel is used a lot in buildings, building materials, cars and vehicles, heavy machinery and some consumer goods (but I doubt carbon fiber frames for high end bikes are to blame for the drop). So it's going to be reduced demand somewhere there.
One-Dot-7111@reddit
Don't worry dollar general might be hiring. One person.
Sunnyjim333@reddit
Dear Leader does not understand how tariffs work. They accelerated and worsened the Great Depression and helped pave the way for Nazism.
driverdan@reddit
What makes you think this is caused by tariffs?
Sunnyjim333@reddit
Factories use steel to make things, foreign countries are not going to buy US steel due to cost (tariffs).
America doesn't make stuff like it did 50 years ago, there is no one to buy coal to make steel. No jobs for a lot of folks, not just miners.
No jobs, no money. That was the Great Depression, the average person did not have money.
driverdan@reddit
Your response has a lot of assumptions that may not be true: the initial post is true that companies are shutting down, that they're doing it because of declining sales, that declining sales are due to reduced steel production, that US steel exports are significant and declining, that the decline is due to tariffs, that American manufacturing has declined (it hasn't), etc.
xterminatr@reddit
It was accelerated by tarrifs, not caused by. Tariffs (essentially taxes on the american consumer) that destroy the already deteriorating lower/middle class spending power are just about the worst thing you can do when the economy is already sputtering.
Sunnyjim333@reddit
Yes, sorry. There were many other factors, margin stock buying, bad loans, bank runs and so on.
Jack_Rayovac@reddit
Maybe he does get it.
pink_faerie_kitten@reddit
Putin is very happy that the American economy is dying. Asset Krasnov is doing Putin's bidding. Also Bibi was caught on camera saying he would "bleed America dry" so he's happy too.
pink_faerie_kitten@reddit
And tech bros want the economy to die so they can have their fiefdoms aka Dark Enlightenment Theory.
bthomp612@reddit
So many people are ignorant to this fact. They’re going to need some form of “population reduction” before that can happen.
pink_faerie_kitten@reddit
I think Jesse Welles knows about Dark Enlightenment Theory because his lyrics in reference to the tech bros seem to knows what's up. Check out his awesome songs here
https://youtube.com/@hellswelles?feature=shared
nasnedigonyat@reddit
He absolutely gets it
One-Employment3759@reddit
He has dementia and can't remember if he gets it.
BigJSunshine@reddit
And pooping your pants, as DL does, disrupts a lot of
Jasond777@reddit
Problem is he isn’t acting alone
DaperDandle@reddit
He has concepts of getting it.
CeruleanFruitSnax@reddit
Somebody does.
Suspicious-Tip-8199@reddit
He gets us
LollipopDisco@reddit
😂
wwaxwork@reddit
So you are saying it was intentional? Yeah that'd be right I'm sure one of his cronies makes money buying the remnants of these companies up cheap and selling it for scrap.
booi@reddit
No.. he doesn’t. But the people that manipulate him do
papppotato@reddit
Yep
tryingtobecheeky@reddit
As was the plan in Project 2025.
PezMaster4000@reddit
Good. It’s about time.
Gygax_the_Goat@reddit
Good.
Southern_Air3501@reddit
What happened to "beautiful clean coal"?? 🙄
Opposite-Bit6660@reddit
A Trump lie.
crowislanddive@reddit
but daddy said he was gonna fix everything and make it all better.
Opposite-Bit6660@reddit
Are they still calling the rapist pedophile trafficker Daddy? Gross.
evermorecoffee@reddit
*For the uberwealthy
alaskanslicer@reddit
Here's where controlling information will be very important to trump and essential for his success.
This was never about any of the topics he seemed passionate about. He's here to gain power.
This isn't even his final form.
Yamahahahahahahaha@reddit
Donald Trump the child fucker? You don't say.
Opposite-Bit6660@reddit
Rapist Trump trafficked girls through his modeling agency and pageants to other rich men to rape.
reincarnateme@reddit
https://project2025.observer/en
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-donor-list-pay-for-access-b2801001.html
https://corruptioncounter.com/
https://www.rawstory.com/trump-pay-to-play/
https://www.msnbc.com/the-briefing-with-jen-psaki/watch/-carnival-of-corruption-report-shows-trump-milks-presidency-for-badly-needed-bailout-242697797928
https://clearinghouse.net/case/15342/
https://www.politicalflare.com/2019/10/biographer-reveals-trump-was-a-vicious-bully-as-a-child-who-threw-rocks-at-babies/
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/trump-the-bully-how-childhood-military-school-shaped-the-future-president/
President Felon:
• Was mentioned in the Epstein flight log 7 times and admitted to being his friend. Even rented Epstein’s plane. • Pleaded the fifth 450 times • Has 34 felony convictions for fraud • Has 27 sexual assault allegations, including a 13 year old child • Has 6 bankruptcies • Has had over 4000 legal cases involving himself or his businesses • Has 5 Draft Deferments • Has 4 indictments • Has had 2 impeachments • Has 2 companies convicted of tax fraud • Had a fake university shut down • Had a fake charity shut down
gratefulkittiesilove@reddit
Damn dude even though I was aware of a lot of that it’s sobering and powerful all together
SectorFriends@reddit
Yeah him running for president was just him running from his past and people cheered him on.
Girafferage@reddit
There is also the one sexual assault charge. The one that did not technically meet the requirements for rape in the state at the time, but would now since they fixed that definition.
Not-A-Real-Person-67@reddit
So far
u_r_being_watched@reddit
But Trump said he loves coal and ......
VolumeNeat9698@reddit
Most coal mines in the U.K. shut 40 years ago, and the last coal power plant closed last year. U.K. is coal free. Absolutely no panic or worry needed
EffortCommon2236@reddit
The coal involved in the post is not used for power, it's a kind used for smelting. US steel production is about to go down.
VolumeNeat9698@reddit
Gotcha, thank you for the information.
wlktheearth@reddit
About F’in time. Coal sucks.
Parking_Abalone_1232@reddit
Mango Mussolini is going to fix that, though!
Green_Wyvern17@reddit
Good riddance
bikumz@reddit
This is not good. This means people are losing jobs and manufacturing is down, leading to more job loss.
frongles23@reddit
Oh no. Who could've seen this coming a mile away?
bikumz@reddit
Everyone who has said production of US steel has been down or just inconsistent for 20 years?
It seems a lot of this sub doesn’t understand what it means or even that steel is made with coal.
mully24@reddit
Arc furnaces..... Coal and coke are dying
Low_Shirt2726@reddit
That person was being sarcastic....jfc lol
bikumz@reddit
That’s the point. There’s a lot of people in these comments who didn’t see it coming.
Big_Knobber@reddit
Fun Fact: All the coal in the world was made between 360 million years ago and 300 million years ago.
360 million years ago plants decided to make lignin. Lignan is the stuff that makes wood, wood. Before that the plants were kind of fleshy and short. The lignan making ability spread fast all over the planet. Microbes didn't know what to do with this lignin and couldn't eat it. A tree could fall and 100,000 years later it would still be laying there. I can't imagine what that would look like. Bullions of trees just laying around.
Then about 300 million years ago microbes figured out how to eat lignin and that ability spread fast all over the world because there was a LOT to eat. Once they figured that out, no more coal.
A way of thinking about burning fossil fuels, is think about how much energy hits the surface of the Earth every day from the sun. Plants don't really pull very much out of the ground. Most of their mass comes from sunshine and the air. 60,000,000 years of concentrated sunlight energy is what we are digging up and unleashing.
Sure is hot out.
KingOfKnowledgeReal@reddit
“And we’re waiting here in Allentown. But they’ve taken all the coal from the ground. And the union people crawled away.” - Billy Joel’s Allentown
CapPuzzleheaded7010@reddit
Now I’ll have this in my head for a week, thanks!
torquil@reddit
At least it wasn't the other Billy Joel song. Don't say it! Don't even think it!
carlitospig@reddit
Is it strange I actually heard this in Bob Dylan’s voice?
AntiSonOfBitchamajig@reddit
Steel industry *
lustforrust@reddit
Metallurgical coal is also used in the production of synthetic graphite.
nikonf22@reddit
Suckers if you voted for this.
burner118373@reddit
Coal country has been dying for decades Not sure this is pressing news
kozmolov@reddit
RUMP is killing green energy and revitalizing fossil energy.
TheBushidoWay@reddit
Shut up lol
driverdan@reddit
What does that have to do with coal? Coal is fossil energy.
Low_Shirt2726@reddit
Yeah...the transition to electric arc furnaces has been going on for decades. It was inevitable that at some point most coal mines would become unprofitable and shutdown, even this supposedly uniquely hot burning variety
TheBushidoWay@reddit
Coals pretty much dead, and the writing has been on the walls for years. The past few years have been charity but those in the coal industry should get out before fission tech becomes the norm
Mr-Jack-Tripper@reddit
I love the uneducated
Mountain_Sand3135@reddit
Source?
Extreme-King@reddit
Hey I read about this in Atlas Shrugged!
pericles123@reddit
Steel production in this country is not slowing down at all. Coal is a dying industry, period, regardless of what the idiot in the oval thinks. Hopefully these types of areas can find a different industry to bring them back.
turtleduck@reddit
and....?
bikumz@reddit
And people are losing jobs and manufacturing is down. Pretty good indicator something is fucked. Or in other words, “prepperintel”.
turtleduck@reddit
that's what the current admin's tariffs are doing. I know at least 3 people including myself who lost their job in the past few months because businesses just couldn't handle it.
I suppose it's good that this is being talked about because everything that this fascist government does should be, and people who are new to these concepts might not be aware. but come on, end-stage capitalism and fighting climate change with greener energy is old news.
bikumz@reddit
The current tariffs not even a year old has caused years and years of debt for the steel and coal industry causing them to close? That’s what you are saying?
This coal isn’t for energy needs but steel needs for manufacture needs. But glad you brought up energy. My state is currently paying over 100% premium on energy after closing our coal plant in June and having to buy energy from PA. Google “BGE Maryland price hikes” to find the lovely cost of green energy!
turtleduck@reddit
okay so you're saying this has been a long time coming?
it's possible that they saw the tariffs as the nail in the coffin that they couldn't recover from before the next election. it's made manufacturing everything even more expensive. we obviously need steel, but the US is only the 4th largest steel manufacturer, the bulk of it comes from China, Japan and India, and that's where the tariffs have targeted.
I'm sorry your state has shitty energy policy, but that's yet another symptom of end-stage capitalism. corrupt government officials would rather prop up a dying industry for short-term financial gain or votes, instead of considering what's best long-term, leaving the rest of us to pay for their mistakes.
bikumz@reddit
I mean the steel plant that I know of and have referenced, crucible, basically admitted defeat in January from the videos I remember. From memory they filed for bankruptcy the year prior at some point as well. Little googling shows in December they filed after years of built up debt. They talked about a huge decline that actually caused bankruptcy in the 2000s but tried to recover, just couldn’t. They made steel that was mostly used for tools and automotive industry, honestly some of the best steel for tools. They will be greatly missed by me. But can’t blame tariffs on this one. There is a clear decline of US steel and it’s all just happening this year in a pile. You don’t blame someone in the hot seat for a decline since early 2000s. Blame him for anything else you want immigration, terrible tax bill, selling off fed owned land whatever but this is something of a different beast. I get everyone wants a wolf. But don’t cry wolf for no reason. Blame current admin for all the other problems, but not ones they had 0 control over other than big time bail outs.
Steel production is a weird thing in the US. Everyone wants it, no one wants it by them. My area is currently fighting steel being brought back to the area after having it for years then closing up shop. No one wants to deal with the environmental issues and wants it to be someone else’s problem. It’s like anything else, most agrees windmills are good but no one wants the eyesore.
BarbaricCleric@reddit
It’s only “intel” to someone who literally does not pay any attention to the outside world.
Donnie Dipshit’s gleefully fucking up the economy and his lemming base will continue to eat an economic shit sandwhich to “own the libs” or whatever. The economy is already fucked and it’s only going to get worse while we have the world’s most malicious moron at the helm. Good news is, Russia and China will be more than happy to step in to fill the void left by the US pissing away all its power and influence.
bikumz@reddit
Most of these steel plants that are closing are closing because of debt occurred in past years, not in months. Where that decline of demand has happened over years or even decades. Don’t let politics get in the way of facts. You call out people who don’t pay attention while not understanding what you’re commenting on.
turtleduck@reddit
omg thank you I was about to say something very similar
Aramedlig@reddit
Who tf did WVa overwhelmingly vote for? Oh right. Anyways…
Princess_Actual@reddit
Good. F*** coal.
DonAmecho777@reddit
But Trump was gonna bring back all the beautiful coal jobs! The jobs there is a whole library of depressing songs about!!!
No_Detail9259@reddit
Is coal even used to make steel anymore?
bikumz@reddit
About 71% of steel is made with coal.
daisyup@reddit
Thank you for the link. Fascinating article.
bikumz@reddit
Of course! I’m currently watching steel being made on YouTube this definitely sparked a bit of interest for myself lol
Boring-Philosophy-46@reddit
Steel is an alloy of carbon and iron so what are they adding to the rest? I only know of coal based carbon used for that.
bikumz@reddit
I am not a coal expert haha I just knew a lot of coal was made with steel due to a buddy’s father and family friends working in the industry, and googled the figure to be sure! Sorry if I came off that way. I just know a little about the industry.
turtleduck@reddit
how is the other 29% made?
bikumz@reddit
“The other 29% of the world’s steel production uses electric arc furnaces, fed with recycled steel or iron smelted with natural gas and hydrogen.”
kozmolov@reddit
No It is all powered by green energies . . .but RUMP is shutting that down now. /s
chiefjayhawk1954@reddit
Call the President!
Iamthewalrusforreal@reddit
Oil companies have more money to bribe Trump with.
Did anyone think this was going to work some other way?
sumdude51@reddit
Seems like something the media might be interested in.... 10 years ago. We are foresook
Overall_Age8730@reddit
"Build back better"
Raygaholic420@reddit
Lol. He isn't the president and it wasnt his policies causing this. So blame the right guy for a start.
Overall_Age8730@reddit
Did I name anyone ? Build Back Better is a phrase tied to the agenda, in reference to the great reset. Not a particular politician.
Complex_Material_702@reddit
As they should……
kozmolov@reddit
Sorry (not sorry) for your local struggles. I wish that I had suggestions of where to move or what industries are doing well. but there are none to give. Other than start kissing the "Queen" Donnas ass.
Something_Awkward@reddit
Fuck Around