Why is Jazz sometimes looked down upon?

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Low-Cheesecake2839@reddit

I’ve only heard people sometimes infer Jazz is a bit “middle-class”, but never met anyone who looked down on it. I don’t think it’s cos it derived from America.

Although I think much jazz is dreadful (and let’s not even start on “free-jazz”), some of my favourite music is jazz. Coltrane, Miles Davis (if we ignore anything late 70’s - 1980’s), louis Armstrong are literally the best American cultural exports ever!!

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highrisedrifter@reddit

It has literally nothing to do with America. Not everything revolves around America, you know?

It's because a lot of British people think Jazz is shite.

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IAmTakingThoseApples@reddit

Are you saying jazz has nothing to do with America? Or are you saying we just don't like jazz? Because if the latter then yes, many people just don't enjoy the music nor have any cultural ties to it to make us sentimental of it either.

I can't say I've ever put a jazz tune on just to listen to it. However I'm sure if we had some deep cultural identity to it I'd be quite interested in it

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JustARandomGuyReally@reddit (OP)

I mean that’s fair but let’s not pretend Brits don’t like to make fun of America sometimes. So when the object of ridicule is a very American art form, it’s a valid question, even if the answer is “no.”

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That_Northern_bloke@reddit

Mate if you think we make fun of you, wait till you see what we say about the French

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Polish_Shamrock@reddit

In all honesty, the French have been looking great compared to the Americans from our point of view recently.

Jazz isn't extremely popular anywhere apart from certain places in America and for good reason in my opinion, sounds like lot's of random noise to most.

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ArmWildFrill@reddit

That is bollocks. Jazz is closely related to Blues and they are all-pervasive in popular culture.

Pop music is popular music.

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Polish_Shamrock@reddit

Like i said, in my opinion! Just sounds like a load of unorganized noise to me. I listen to almost every genre/decade of music but I'll never get jazz personally, there's probably a handfull of jazz songs i don't mind, 99.9% sounds awful to me and i will happily go from drum and bass to 1940's tunes and then to classical to folk but jazz can fuck off.

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Ophiochos@reddit

We don’t dislike blues though. Or hip hop. Or rock’n’roll. (Etc) It’s got nothing to do with America.

(We also dislike main character syndrome and there is a stronger connection on that front with Americans, as has been pointed out to you).

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thedrape@reddit

I love jazz. I've never really considered it to be American. It's just music.

Even now you've said it's an American art form it doesn't bother me, I won't think about its origins at all when I listen to it.

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AlGunner@reddit

Got a bit of an inferiority complex have you?

We'll take the piss out of anything, including you. Doesnt mean we like it or dont like it, we;ll still tke the piss out of it.

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Whole-Lychee1628@reddit

Tends to be modern jazz is open to ridicule. Mostly because the perception is it’s intentionally and intensively exclusionary. You Don’t Get It Because You‘re Not Smart Enough. That sort of thing.

Big Band, Trad, even Be-Bop is just….another genre. But Modern and Acid Jazz, like Modern Art, seems far more about the artist‘s ego than anything else.

And when your major cultural touchstone to a genre is a jumped up little twerp like The Twat In The Hat, Him from out of off of Jamiroquai, it’s really easy to dislike a genre.

It’s like judging all sub genres of rock and metal music by the growly lyric discordant “mate, you tell me these are the lyrics, but for all anyone can tell you might as well be reading out your Nan’s shopping list” metal.

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Classic-Hedgehog-924@reddit

What jokes in British media? Is this thing? What type of jazz? There was a trad jazz genre which was very much nerdy pipe smoking University students in tweed in the 60s. Are you referencing comedy skits based of this?

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No_Election_1123@reddit

Not so much looked down on, but it’s often used as a shorthand to someone who listens to jazz because it’s the music that someone like them would listen to, rather than something they might enjoy

Same type of thing for someone who would read difficult literature rather than a holiday read

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Cult-Film-Fan-999@reddit

It's just a jokey cliche that it's pretentious and full of self endulgent solos. But so is Prog Rock.

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Ordinary-Floor-6814@reddit

It's dull. One of the definitions of jazz is that it's more fun to play than to listen to. It also died over a century ago, bebop etc. Also every attempted explanation of jazz, Kerouac, et al, is toxic garbage.

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Alternative_Guitar78@reddit

Strongly disagree... Be-bop didn't emerge until the late forties, followed by modal jazz and the cool school in the 50's, followed by free jazz in the 60's, followed by spiritual jazz, jazz funk, jazz fusion...oh, hang on perhaps it didn't "die," a hundred years ago!

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Agitated_Ad_361@reddit

Died over a century ago? Maybe half a century but you’re missing some unbelievably good stuff if your cut off is 1925.

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BastardsCryinInnit@reddit

I dont think many British people associate jazz with America - they might know some background but they dont instantly think of jazz = America.

It's not all about you 😂

It's everything to do with the kind of British person who stereotypically liked jazz - snobby, superiority complex, 'you wouldn't understand it' attitude.

Jazz is complex music for sure and as such it's not always been traditionally accessible to everyone in the UK.

Was always a bit avant garde. Elitist.

And we are a class culture, remember.

The Fast Show captured it perfectly.

TL:DR: Americans it's nothing to do with you, less of the main character syndrome please

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shelleypiper@reddit

Yeah, OP stated that jazz is an American art form and I'd literally never heard or thought of that before. (A quick Google search concurs with OP, but the point being, it's not an association that we would necessarily make, especially given points made in other comment threads about music education lacking.)

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ArmWildFrill@reddit

Jazz is a very broad church and encompasses a huge range of musical styles from almost everywhere.

OP, you have an odd worldview. Maybe you could give and example of the jokes of which you speak?

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tartanthing@reddit

Nice

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Prestigious-Gold6759@reddit

I've never seen this re jazz; quite the opposite.

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stinkyswife@reddit

Depends on the type of jazz. Proponents of Free Jazz are often considered to be pretentious wankers and the music discordant and shite.

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No_Wrap_9979@reddit

Jazz is jizz.

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Old_Shelter_6783@reddit

Most popular styles of music can trace their roots back to America, they aren’t looked down upon for being American. Most of these genres have provided ‘inspiration’ to Brits to make our most beloved music.

I think jazz can (but certainly doesn’t always) tend towards the pretentious, and some styles can be very challenging to listen to. On top of that, jazz is old enough and influential enough that most people will have heard the more challenging styles of jazz in their formative years and have had their opinions shaped by that.

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Agitated_Ad_361@reddit

I think that portraying anything requiring specific expertise and work as pretentious is quite British.

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Parking-Tip1685@reddit

Nice.

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ArmWildFrill@reddit

Groovy!

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Cyberhaggis@reddit

Tune?! This is jazz!

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Affectionate-Bus4123@reddit

I think to enjoy jazz you need a certain level of technical music education. We mostly don't have that so it just sounds like a bunch of random musical phrases that don't follow the music structure we're used to. Same to a lesser extent for non-modern classical music outside the big favorites.

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Ophiochos@reddit

My family are musicians. They say jazz is music for musicians who can get a kick out of the rules and norms being broken. Ordinary mortals like us generally don’t get much out of.

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geeoharee@reddit

This is also why non musical people perceive it as pretentious.

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Agitated_Ad_361@reddit

It has nothing to do with ripping on Americans. To enjoy most jazz, you need a reasonable understanding of how music works and 99% of people don’t, because music education in this country isn’t great and it is looked down on in schools. Coupled with the general opinion of anything ‘intelligent’ being uncool in our media, jazz sadly doesn’t stand much of a chance.

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No_Potato_4341@reddit

Because it's kinda plain. I think there are much more interesting genres.

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That_Northern_bloke@reddit

Is it? You hear jokes about a lot of things, doesn't mean we have a national opinion of them

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Hamsternoir@reddit

There's the official Department of National Opinions that was set up during WWI and is still going.

Although like many things it's been outsourced and is currently run by some Belgian company.

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That_Northern_bloke@reddit

Ah yes, I heard they come out with lots of waffle

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aStrange_quark@reddit

F you and take my upvote

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That_Northern_bloke@reddit

I aim to please

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ChristyMalry@reddit

It's not that people look down on jazz as inferior to classical music but the opposite, the stereotype is that jazz fans are pretentious and up themselves. Also people fear the lack of rules!

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Early_Tree_8671@reddit

I've literally never heard anyone slag off jazz, seems an odd thing to take offence to

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Impossible_Ad_1276@reddit

I think the more opaque jazz is looked down upon generally but not because it's American.

There's plenty of European jazz which is more avant-garde that i think finds a higher level of mockery than, say Louis Armstrong. I think it's the levels of pretension that people associate with jazz, rightly or wrongly, where its perceived that you have to be a proper muso to really "understand the brilliance of how the atonal dissonance is just like a really amazing deconstruction what we think of as music, maaan" or whatever. See The Fast Show for reference.

TLDR, it's more the fanbase

If it was just because it was American, then blues, rock... shit, everything really, would be the same.

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Smart_Comedian_4123@reddit

I didn’t realise jazz was American, it will explain why it’s a bit shit though.

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ben_jamin_h@reddit

Is Jazz American? Please provide sources

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OK_Cake05@reddit

https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20120224-travelwise-the-birthplace-of-jazz

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theyellowscriptures@reddit

Jazz originated in African-American communities in New Orleans, Louisiana, during the late 19th and early 20th centuries. It emerged from a blend of various musical styles, including blues, ragtime, European harmonies, and African rhythmic traditions.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz

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Sasspishus@reddit

It's because a lot of jazz is terrible. It's got nothing to do with the US.

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Able_Relative8867@reddit

A lot of most music is terrible though

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PinItYouFairy@reddit

It is and we take the piss out of that too

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Smart_Comedian_4123@reddit

It’s pretentious crap

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MattDubh@reddit

Its not looked down on, is it?

But, if someone tries to talk to you about it, odds are they're going to bore you to tears.

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jimmywillow@reddit

I love jazz, it’s what I listen to most days on the radio. To be honest I don’t think I’ve really brought it up in conversation much and on the rare occasions where someone has an expressed an opinion it’s just indifference.