More distros should take notes from NixOS's installer's desktop choice screen.
Posted by makinax300@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 252 comments
Usually, you start with gnome unless someone recommended otherwise and are unaware of other desktops until you start interacting with the community.
And that might be a problem for people who don't like it or whose computers can't handle gnome.
This would be a great solution, especially for distros with many skins or made for beginners. And it can be made even better with a video instead of a photo.
Old screenshot taken from the internet because I'm not planning to install it right now. I just remembered about it and wanted to say something.
Time_Way_6670@reddit
EndeavourOS has this, despite being pretty close to Arch, Endeavour is probably a lot easier for new users than Nix lol
neXITem@reddit
CachyOS has this too ( if i remember correctly... )
kalzEOS@reddit
I'll get murdered for this, but new users should have no business installing NixOS.
rmusic10891@reddit
What? You don’t think declarative configuration and breaking changes are approachable for new users?
kalzEOS@reddit
Lol. I, an 8 years Linux user, don't know what the hell that is. I checked nix out and it was 100% not for me. Too much work I didn't need to get into. I just want to sign in, fire up steam and play from the get go. Yes, I'm fucking old.
regeya@reddit
I've used Linux since 1996 and I just couldn't be bothered to do things the Nix way.
kalzEOS@reddit
Wow, I'm glad, I'm not crazy then. lol.
regeya@reddit
I even gave it a decent try. I don't remember what the final straw was, I think it was trying to set up a Python venv and finding out I was going to have to use a nix file to manage my venvs when I said y'know what, nope.
6eba610ian@reddit
u don't need a nix file to manage venvs,u can just use the terminal and that's it,or if you like more controll u can use the nix file,that simple,i use it for custom development spaces
regeya@reddit
Not my experience using nix, but I'm glad it works for you
kalzEOS@reddit
If I can do something in 2 minutes on a distro, and in 20 on another, you better believe I'm picking the less time. Lol
AgainstScumAndRats@reddit
I'm with you. Violently employed. I just want to boot up my PC and do the thing I need to do instead of endlessly customizing it.
Deepspacecow12@reddit
I think you would like nix then. The whole point of nix is that its declarative, you write in one config file how you want stuff to be, and that's it. Your system is like that, no more worrying.
Mist3r_Numb_3r@reddit
Yeah, but you have to learn how to write the config file, and you need to wrap your head around concepts that might be awkward to the average person (I still haven't got an idea of how flakes work)
6eba610ian@reddit
i've touched the flake once in my life then never again,for installing apps you just write the app package name in config and that's it
ThunderDaniel@reddit
The config file would be understandable if there was a wizard program that had buttons and pictures that built the config for you
"Do you want X feature?" {shows picture or short looping video of the feature}
[YES] [NO]
NotJohnDarnielle@reddit
That's also how Debian works, though. I set it up once, and then I don't worry about it anymore. I guess the NixOS system would be nice if I was reinstalling my distro a bunch, or deploying a lot of identical machines, but I'm not.
AgainstScumAndRats@reddit
What if I don't want to write a config file. What do I get out of the box?
Deepspacecow12@reddit
You don't need to write it from scratch, the installer makes one for you. It comes like any other distro does after first setup, with whatever partitions and DE you selected while installing. You only need to modify the file to add services or download packages.
AgainstScumAndRats@reddit
Sure, I'll give it a try this weekend.
Deepspacecow12@reddit
Yeah, but you can't really install packages or new systemd services. Also, it's not fhs compliant as most services and packages are in the nix store rather than the normal directory system.
I use it on my pc with gnome, functions pretty similarly to any other distro in day to day use. I play my games on there, sadly haven't gotten my vr headset working yet.
Masterflitzer@reddit
in my experience that never works in practice, everybody said the same thing about ansible, but in the end it always took ages to write the config
sparky8251@reddit
No, it really is this way.
Its not like ansible where it does tasks on a system, it literally builds the OS from scratch using hashed paths and symlinks.
You cant like
firewall=falsein ansible and have it automatically know to remove all firewall rules, pull all the services, and even uninstall the stuff that provides iptables.But NixOS evaluates and rebuilds the entire OS from scratch exactly like a fresh install every time based on your config so
firewall=falseliterally removes every aspect of firewall support from the system automatically.Deepspacecow12@reddit
When you install nixos it auto-generates a config, then you just add what you need. search.nixos.org has all the packages and options defined.
OrganicNectarine@reddit
It baffles my mind sometimes how slow ansible is at some tasks, that should literally take milliseconds.
FitPresentation9672@reddit
Me too, that's why I use NixOS. I've tried many distros, from Ubuntu to Gentoo, and It's the only one that's given a system that I can just reliably use to do what I want instead of hassling with it in the 15 years I've been using linux.
sudogaeshi@reddit
1T-context-window@reddit
Same. I'm hitting 20 years with Linux this year, checked Nix and said I'm happy with my Fedora workstation.
cjstoddard@reddit
I am so with you one this. I can accomplish nearly the same thing with Debian and a finishing script that removes the software I don't need, install the software I do need and then pulls in my dot files.
northrupthebandgeek@reddit
This is sarcasm, right?
rmusic10891@reddit
How that isn’t obvious is completely beyond me.
northrupthebandgeek@reddit
I've seen enough people make such claims unironically that I had to ask to make sure lmao
Alexdelia_Del@reddit
Context: I am daily driving NixOS for personal use and work as a dev.
I personally love the nix approach, and how it solves a lot of my problems. But we have to be real, it's not ready for new users despite how old the nix project is.
sparky8251@reddit
Nix is wonderful. Cant stand containers, chef/salt/ansible... Those really arent as good as people portrayed them as past the first year or two of using them. Approaching year 3 of Nix as my daily driver now and I adore it.
Its everything containers and ansible promised to be.
Its most definitely NOT easy to learn however. Its def got its own way of doing things that takes time to figure out but once you do, it sticks a lot better and makes heavily customizing your install a lot easier. Ive never had as heavily a customized linux box in almost 2 decades of using it.
3X0karibu@reddit
Yes. Nix abstracts a lot of things that can still cause issues and you generally should have a good understanding of Linux before diving head first into nix
FoundationOk3176@reddit
Spoiler: There are people out there who just want to move on with their lives.
WokeBriton@reddit
Why should new users have no business installing NixOS?
This isn't an attack, I'm genuinely interested in why you're gatekeeping.
kalzEOS@reddit
There is no gatekeeping here. I don't use nixos myself, I can't gatekeep something I don't use personally. Nixos is just too advanced for new users, unless they're programmers and are going to be ok with all the declarative stuff nix makes people do
WokeBriton@reddit
You can and you did.
JoeyDJ7@reddit
Hitman dispatched. ETA: 3hrs 15m. Please confirm receipt of assassination upon their arrival by saying the following unique passcode: 80085
JustNerfRaze@reddit
Until NixOS has more documentation and finishes up their toolset, it will only remain a good distro to retire on.
Literallyapig@reddit
most people shouldnt have business installing nixos really. i love nixos and i in no way want to be an elitist, but it just may not benefit most people lmao. the not-so-good docs also dont help.
tomasig@reddit
off topic, but when did you changed your pfp to clippy in recent 5 days?
kalzEOS@reddit
2 days ago after watching Louis Rossmann's latest video, yes.
tomasig@reddit
lol, I have never guessed thsat I will find someone using the clippy pfp that fast. Want to switch to it too.
lavilao@reddit
ok, hear me out. What about a nix os derivative where the user only installs software from flatpak? A lot of linux youtubers say that a lot of distros should just be install scripts, with nix os it can be more than that, instead of mantaining a bunch of build scripts and pipelines the "distro" devs would only have to mantain the config file. I think that there is something called a "flake" that would even allow the mantainers to pin sofware versions. It would be like a immutable distro but you dont have to download a 4gb iso file to apply 1 fix.
northrupthebandgeek@reddit
Not all immutable distros require downloading a 4GB ISO to apply one fix. Aeon is a good example; it just updates the actual packages that need updating.
Particular_Traffic54@reddit
Tbh, the vast majority of users have no business with Nix.
Suspicious-Limit8115@reddit
*8 hours later
Yeah, he was right
kalzEOS@reddit
😂. You never with all these nerds, man. They WILL murder you if you insult their beloved distro.
Suspicious-Limit8115@reddit
I actually love nix, but when I first used it it was about as rough as installing Arch before the launcher (NVIDIA contributed greatly to this headache)
kalzEOS@reddit
Oh I have zero issues with it, it's just not for me. I think it's a fantastic idea, but I just can't do it.
Swizzel-Stixx@reddit
I have seen a lot of clippy recently
kalzEOS@reddit
Check out Louis Rossmann's latest video. It's a peaceful and silent protest against corporations for encroaching too much on our electronics ownership
inbetween-genders@reddit
But....but....but how am I to tell everyone (especially the ones that don't care) that I use NixOS!?!!
kalzEOS@reddit
Don't get me wrong, nix is great, but just not for new users, or even me personally, a not so new Linux user. It has its own people who love it, and that's totally ok.
bubblegumpuma@reddit
You're right and you should say it
Ezmiller_2@reddit
How is Endeavour compared to say Fedora?
Time_Way_6670@reddit
I used it for a good 4-5 months or so. You get the benefits of Arch, pacman, and the modularity without having to go through the trouble of actually installing Arch. It installs like any other distro except you get the choice to pick whatever DE or WM you like.
Because it's Arch, it's also subject to the Always Rolling Release update schedule of Arch and things can break with updates. In the few months I had it, I updated once a week and rarely had issues, except for one case where Discord stopped working because the Linux kernel changed and the Discord devs hadn't yet pushed out an update to the Arch repos.
I switched to Fedora 41 while using Endeavour and ended up sticking with it. There is nothing really wrong with Endeavour, but I ended up tinkering with my system a lot less than I thought I would and it made no sense for me to use such a bleeding edge OS when I just wanted something would be guaranteed stable. Fedora is updated frequently enough for me, while also not sacrificing stability. I like that.
I will say this though: EndeavourOS made me extremely comfortable with using the terminal because of how much you had to use it.
Ezmiller_2@reddit
I learned how powerful the terminal is with Gentoo and Slackware. But anyways, I use my phone for Internet now. Fedora is nice, but I didn't like downloading 1+gb of data every week. When you are tethering, those download speeds are critical lol. I remember when I had the basic tethering plan, my data would run out and I'd be using basic DSL speeds like 512k/sec and it was terrible.
JailbreakHat@reddit
archinstall also has this despite not being a GUI but a command line installer instead.
makinax300@reddit (OP)
Yeah but Ubuntu and Fedora still should have that.
Big-Afternoon-3422@reddit
Why? They are opinionated about how the first contact with their distro should be and it is good.
Eastern_Yellow4275@reddit
It is beautiful
kbuckleys@reddit
The irony is that users who opt in for Nix don't need that to begin with.
makinax300@reddit (OP)
I did (it was my first distro, someone who doesn't know much about it recommended me it because I knew programming a bit)
kbuckleys@reddit
Don't take this the wrong way, but that's kind of unwise. The only real, viable reason to use something like Nix is because you have multiple boxes that you need to maintain and retain their uniformity with little effort.
It's also very likely you're going to ditch it soon, since as a new Linux user, you'll probably end up trying out a whole bunch of software, and that's where the tedious work with updating your config kicks in. Believe me, unless you know what you're doing and have a specific toolkit, you'll spend the majority of your time maintaining a config file.
It's also not the best introduction to Linux. Yes, it's a Linux distro, but it also sits apart from the rest of the Linux distros, and not always in a good way. It's just a little too niche and has specific use cases.
WokeBriton@reddit
"The only real, viable reason to use something like Nix "
Is that stated on the official website? Or is that something you read elsewhere / made up?
kbuckleys@reddit
Neither.
WokeBriton@reddit
So where did it come from?
Plucked out of the feathers of a passing magpie, perhaps?
kbuckleys@reddit
Good boy. You called it.
locksleyrox@reddit
I liked Nixos as a new user, really easy to undo everything you break as a new user. You don’t have to remember what 50 config files you touched.
Zatujit@reddit
idk last time i checked you had to learn a declarative programming language to use it and the documentation was super confusing. If a project doesn't have a good documentation, I tend to drop it very quickly. Maybe that changed but I really thought that - at least Arch has a great wiki and a large enough community. Given that short experience, I'm not even sure I would even recommend it to a seasoned Linux user.
Minobull@reddit
Just real quick. It's not a declarative programming language, it's a functional programming language. NixLang.
Zatujit@reddit
i'm checking it and it says it is a declarative functional language? does it have control flow or not?
Minobull@reddit
As far as I'm aware Nixlang is purely functional. Like sql is a declarative language, not functional, nixlang and Haskell are functional languages. They're similar in philosophy but aren't really the same thing.
northrupthebandgeek@reddit
Those tend to be synonyms.
Minobull@reddit
Not necessarily, they're definitely his similarities in philosophy, but for example SQL is a declarative language, and it is most definitely not functional. Nixlang meanwhile uses pure functions which declarative languages don't.
AZAzAdmin@reddit
Tbh I used claude code for my entire config and for all changes so the only language I needed was English
BizNameTaken@reddit
You can just use it as a fancy JSON for basic use, you don't need to use functions and stuff.
makinax300@reddit (OP)
The docs were ass but the language was simple.
robben1234@reddit
If it's in the package repo, and everything is, 99% of cases you just do a program_name.enabled = true in the config file.
Makefile_dot_in@reddit
that only works if it's a service/WM, for regular programs you have to add it to
systemPackagesor user packages (also the package repo prefers quantity over quality)kbuckleys@reddit
Exactly. Unless your use case dictates cohesion and fast deployment, there really is no reason to use Nix. The programming language hasn't changed, the documentation is still a roller coaster.
Nix may as well be the next Arch meme.
SergejVolkov@reddit
Any distro on ZFS/btrfs root makes it also easy to undo anything that breaks.
imbev@reddit
Have you tried Ansible?
locksleyrox@reddit
Yeah, I used Ansible in my last job and to manage my k3s mini lab. Love it, great tool.
I don’t think You get the same beginner friendliness as it doesn’t cleanup after itself in the same way. Old playbook steps hang around after you delete them unless you tell it to undo them.
imbev@reddit
That make sense.
Have you heard of bootc before? I'm currently using bootc and ansible together, so any orphaned playbook artifacts are discarded when a new image is built.
kbuckleys@reddit
It has its pros. My point is that it's typically not an entry-level distro. Even some people I know who had used Linux for years dropped Nix because its cons outweighed the pros. But like I said, it's an excellent choice if you have a fleet or multiple boxes you want to keep in sync.
chrisoboe@reddit
Exactly this is the problem.
Learning nixos from scratch isn't that hard.
Switching from another linux distro usually forces to relearn lots of stuff because people have the wrong models of how stuff in linux distros work. This is severely harder.
kbuckleys@reddit
Oh, it's not the learning curve or building up muscle memory. Nix is still Linux, and existing Linux users would feel at home with it. I was only explaining that it has specific use cases that the majority of us don't have.
But who knows, right? Maybe OP has multiple boxes at home and a couple of servers or to just nerd out. At the end of the day, the majority of us just want a comfy setup to get stuff done while not having to babysit the OS.
chrisoboe@reddit
Linux is the kernel. And as a user one doesn't really has direvt contact to the kernel. It's the userspace that has the influence how a system is operated (e.g. android is Linux too).
And the way nix handles stuff is extremely different from almost all other distros. And that must be learned.
kbuckleys@reddit
As Linus put it in Revolution OS; people don't use the OS, they use the software managed by the OS. That extends to everyone using ANY OS.
I don't disagree with you. What you say pretty much lines up with my initial reply. But it is still Linux, it still uses the Linux kernel, it still runs software that other Linux distros run. The dynamics change, but this is not like switching from Windows to Linux. Not even close.
lirannl@reddit
I think nixos is great for servers, but less so for desktop systems
kbuckleys@reddit
My initial impression was that Nix is more suited for individuals with fleets, small business or software developers because of its core functions. But it's good to see it's gaining traction from average Joes too.
vinegary@reddit
No, it’s really nice to be able to just nuke your system and not have to care. Nix is great for personal desktop
kbuckleys@reddit
That's not really an issue on my end since I have a separate partition for /home. Besides, nuking is the last thing you want to do on your rig.
vinegary@reddit
Why would that be the last thing you’d want to do?
kbuckleys@reddit
Sarcasm? xD
vinegary@reddit
Nope, of course that a thing you want to do, port system to new device, swap old harddrives, you’ve installed something that pollutes /usr/local, downgrade driver version, infinite reasons. These things lose all cost if you have a spec for your setup
kbuckleys@reddit
Like I said, not an issue if you have your/ home on a separate partition. The same reason we keep boot and swap partitions separate even though you can dump everything in one drive if you so choose. Additionally, nukes sometimes involves distro hopping. A Nix config won't help you there either.
vinegary@reddit
It is, cause you have to install all you tools, rather than just getting a config that works
kbuckleys@reddit
I can do that with an package list that does everything for me and would take 10 minutes tops.
OppositeFisherman89@reddit
Yeah or we can just do it with Nixos. What's so hard to understand buddy?
kbuckleys@reddit
What's with the attitude? My point is perfectly valid, no need for this hostility.
OppositeFisherman89@reddit
What's with the gatekeeping?
kbuckleys@reddit
Not gatekeeping anything. Have you heard of something called discussion? One made an argument that Nix is easier for to setup, and I simply made a retort. How is that gatekeeping exactly?
OppositeFisherman89@reddit
Don't gatekeep nixos because you think you know "the only real visible reason" to use it
kbuckleys@reddit
Ironically, wouldn't you be the one gatekeeping when you disregard viable alternatives that worked for years because you're biased towards one distro over the other? Just because I said there's 1 or 2 viable reasons to use a distro, doesn't mean you can't use it outside said reasons. Gatekeeping is not what you think it is.
AcceptableHamster149@reddit
You've never heard of Ansible, have you?
vinegary@reddit
I don’t even use nix, these «reasons it’s for some use case» are just weird
purplemagecat@reddit
Any distro with btrfs+ timeshift you can do that
kbuckleys@reddit
I'm still on the fence regarding BTRFS. EXT4 is doing its job for now, but I might consider a migration in the future when it matures a little more.
purplemagecat@reddit
Yeah. I mean to be fair I’m not keeping the only copy of files I absolutely cannot afford to loose on btrfs drives. Most data recovery tools don’t fully support it.
kbuckleys@reddit
I've seen many people suggesting BTRFS for root and EXT4 for /home. Seems like a valid strat, but EXT4 is like the old reliable. Well, it is literally old at this point but it's keeping up for now.
vinegary@reddit
Um, no, not comparable
tin10cqt@reddit
Except that personal desktop user don't nuke their system on any regular basis. It's a niche use that not worth the effort of learning Nix config for.
BinkReddit@reddit
Agreed. The last time I nuked my system it was because I was changing distributions.
AcceptableHamster149@reddit
\^\^ And I haven't changed distributions in years. Haven't seen one come along that actually gives me a compelling reason.
AnEagleisnotme@reddit
Immutable images are lower effort for most people I think, though
ElvishJerricco@reddit
The "multiple boxes" thing is absolutely not the primary benefit I get out of NixOS. The main benefit is that it is code. No, that's not just useful for managing a fleet. NixOS makes it possible to easily change any part of the system, either with the abstract APIs it offers or by literally editing the nixpkgs code. It is a maximally controllable distro, and any customizations I make are tracked in git so I can easily keep track of them, change them, revert them, etc.. Being code also makes it easier to share complicated configs across systems, but that's just one benefit. Another benefit is the packaging model, and how it innately supports many versions of packages and full system rollbacks even from the boot menu. All of this is incredibly valuable.
kbuckleys@reddit
Indeed. Very handy for devs too. I'm just a lowly user lol
sparky8251@reddit
Ive never customized and tweaked my system more than now with me being on NixOS. Its amazing to finally have everything how I want it and not feel like some random OS upgrade in a few months is going to undue my work by overwriting changed configs or ripping out core systems and replacing them without telling me.
Its also nice to know every single tweak is now officially documented, vs before where I could spend millenia tweaking and then lose it all to a bad drive failure and have no idea what I did or didnt do as it was scattered over many dozens of files....
Scandiberian@reddit
Your description of nixOS is accurate but it also kinda isn't. Yes, you'll spend a lot of time on your config file (at first), but afterwards it just works and TBH there's no better distro to test wacky stuff on. I could never test multiple desktop Environments on other distros due to the fear it would all break irreparably. No such issues on NixOS.
I'm fairly new to Linux in general and am finding NixOS a pleasant mix of challenging (I'm having to learn a lot about its architecture) and safety (it just doesn't break no matter how much I abuse it, it's all a simple rollback away from a working state).
kbuckleys@reddit
You can do that with any Linux distro if you know what you're doing. Besides, installing different window managers doesn't really brick your installation. Even if one did fail to load, you can still revert from your greeter or the terminal.
If you're relatively new to Linux as you said, all you need to do is learn the basics and take it up from there. It's a journey. I'm glad you're enjoying Nix, but that doesn't change its intended use cases.
makinax300@reddit (OP)
Installing a new window manager broke another one for me... On NixOS. And only there.
kbuckleys@reddit
Like I said, easily reversible with a greeter or a terminal.
makinax300@reddit (OP)
Reversible but still incompatible
kbuckleys@reddit
Not sure what you mean. What window manager is causing issues for you?
makinax300@reddit (OP)
I don't remember, that was a year ago
kbuckleys@reddit
Could be a user error. Any window manager I know of will run just fine provided you have its dependencies installed, just like any package in Linux. Hey, as long as you're content with Nix, that's literally all that matters.
makinax300@reddit (OP)
Sure. I just think something like wlroots conflicted. And I wasn't happy because not much was documented but it doesn't matter anymore since I now use another distro.
Scandiberian@reddit
You probably had two greeters enabled at the same time.
makinax300@reddit (OP)
It wasn't that. I only had lightdm.
Scandiberian@reddit
I think the intended use case is reproducibility, which I appreciate. atomicity is the absolute cherry on top.
I understand advanced Linux users can probably achieve similar heights of statelessness and disaster recovery with their dotfiles, but for me, atomicity (Sometimes my internet skips a beat), reproducibility (i have 2 laptops and am considering building a desktop) allowing me to keep them in sync, are a God sent.
Plus, having firefox pre-configured with all the extensions i want and the betterfox user.js, plus all nixpkgs and flatpaks i use daily on a fresh install, I still don't know any other distro that can do this as competently.
I don't think NixOS is for everyone, but I do think if someone is interested in what it can do, it is worth every minute of investment.
kbuckleys@reddit
Exactly my point.
Separate /home partition and a package list already take care of that. That's literally all you need.
You are absolutely right though, it's not for everyone. But it's good to have something that "just works" for you and you're happy with it. That's all that matters.
Scandiberian@reddit
Fair enough my friend. Indeed having something that "just works" for us truly is what we all should strive for, before holding onto particular distros like cultists.
Thanks for the insightful conversation. God bless!
kbuckleys@reddit
The beauty of Linux, freedom of choice and getting things done. God bless, my friend.
blablablerg@reddit
Ehh no. With Nix you can keep quite a bit of your system "stateless", as in you don't collect as much cruft from installation and configuration, and your system doesn't run wayward over the years. Of course, you can do this on normal distros, but it takes more effort. You don't run into dependency hells when running different versions of different software. And if your configuration builds, you can be 99.99% sure that your system doesn't break. I've been running it for 5 years now on my desktop, the experience has been great.
kbuckleys@reddit
It's not really a huge deal in other distros indeed, and this is coming from someone who uses a distro known for being bleeding edge where updates flown in almost daily. Honestly? My setup is not really piling up a lot of redundant data, and it's relatively easy to clean up, but that's primarily because I know what I'm doing.
Which takes me to the second point; the one thing I could have appreciated had Nix been out back when I switched to Linux is the convenience of its approach to failsafes. Don't get me wrong, flakes are also great, just not great enough for me to learn a language and babysit a config only to end up doing the same thing I already do on Arch.
But I guess I was wrong about Linux newcomers being potentially hindered with Nix, because it's not exactly noob-friendly. It's actually a pleasant surprise. Not quite sure I'd recommend it to my Windows friends yet though lol
jafner425@reddit
Respectfully, I want to push back on this a little bit. I've been using NixOS as my daily driver for a little over a year now. I know what I'm doing, but I've been astonished at how easy it has been to set and forget.
I've encountered a couple issues at the intersection of bleeding-edge gaming stuff, but I can't remember any Nix/OS-specific issues that survived more than a few days without getting patched.
I think Nix sidesteps some of the learning curve spikes you might get with a traditional Linux desktop by virtue of its centralized, text-based config. And troubleshooting with snippets of system config code is much easier.
Of course, it's just another interface for the same package / config management complexity inherent to a rich and open software ecosystem.
But between
commaand flakes, I can't imagine going back.Still though, most of the introductory resources and guides take a very heady, abstract approach to the fundamentals, rather than providing a practical and opinionated "getting started" guide.
I think a lot of your warnings were valid until pretty recently for desktop users. In the last 12 months alone I've seen huge strides in the daily usability.
kbuckleys@reddit
Can't disagree with you. But considering Linux's user base is already minuscule as it is, imagine just how much smaller the Nix user base is, if that makes sense.
There's definitely going to be Nix chads on Reddit, but Reddit alone represents the voice of a minority. See what I mean? Especially since OP made it seem as though they recently moved to Linux, it felt in place to give them a heads up.
makinax300@reddit (OP)
I survived a year.
kbuckleys@reddit
I'm just glad more people are hopping on the Linux train. This is the way.
Nolan_PG@reddit
I've used NixOS for a long time and I wouldn't recommend it to anybody, even though I personally think it's a great distro.
no_brains101@reddit
I'm going to respectfully disagree, before I made my own config which can generate iso files, the installer was helpful because it generates a config for you.
Do I still use it? No of course not. But it was honestly really nice when I was trying to learn it the first time.
kbuckleys@reddit
OP was praising the window manager picker in the Nix installer, not the automatic config generator. I understand that WMs can have different Nix configs, but that's something that can be done without a graphical installer or a picker.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for accessibility. My remark was mostly a banter in good faith.
no_brains101@reddit
Well, but that's how the window manager picker works, it just puts a couple different lines in the config file that it generated for you.
The installer just creates a config, runs the disk commands, and then builds the config on the machine.
WokeBriton@reddit
I'm not sure I can accept your opening premise. I began with KDE because it was the default choice the first time I ever installed linux (suse 6.something), and suspect most people don't the same. Taking the default that is, not specifically KDE.
Unless you know that GNOME is the default selection on more than 50% of distros, I'm sticking with my suspicion.
makinax300@reddit (OP)
The most popular distro is Ubuntu which defaults to gnome.
WokeBriton@reddit
You're basing it on ubuntu being the most popular distro?
Hmm.
DependentSpecial3038@reddit
debian and opensuse do this too, it's really nice
makinax300@reddit (OP)
Yep, I was unaware because I used the full screen installers
innahema@reddit
NixOS now have installer? Taht's so wierd. I thought whole point of NixOS was to configure your system inside one text file.
makinax300@reddit (OP)
It sets up some basics for the configuration file. Also, it's not even one text file, usually you use home manager for home too which is seperate.
ChocolateDonut36@reddit
many distros already have desktop environment selection when installing, what makes Nix's special?
Fit_Smoke8080@reddit
Of the main ones only Debian (ironcally) and Suse have this. Ubuntu (+99% of its derivates) and Fedora don't (you have to pick a specific ISO before installing) Arch, Alpine, Gentoo neither (obviously) the RHEL and its derivates mostly follow the same strategy as Ubuntu and Fedora but with a stronger emphasis in that Gnome is their main opinionated choice. List becomes bigger when you add smaller niches like EndeavourOS and Nix, and some Debian clones.
FrostyDiscipline7558@reddit
SHHHHH! Don't ask that! They will tell you! And omg will they keep telling you!
makinax300@reddit (OP)
Because I haven't tried all distros, only the mainstream ones.
ChocolateDonut36@reddit
bud debian isn't a niche distro and has a desktop environment selection
makinax300@reddit (OP)
I'm talking about with previews which opensuse doesn't have and Debian only has in the live usb installer which is not the default.
kalzEOS@reddit
Obviously, OP hasn't tried many distros. Lol
MrLewGin@reddit
"Usually you start with Gnome", yes, until it swiftly makes you feel agitated, frustrated, pissed off and longing for something familiar.
makinax300@reddit (OP)
Yep, just like I said, it's a problem for people who do not want gnome
MrLewGin@reddit
Absolutely
Extreme-Ad-9290@reddit
I honestly think they should take inspiration from arch and just have a command for graphical install like gui-install
GTHell@reddit
I’ve seen better
Literallyapig@reddit
funny how prob one of the hardest linux distros to use has one of the most friendliest installers lmao
Tima_Play_x@reddit
Nixos's installer have less option than archinstall. You can't choose bootloader, or wm as your desktop
rataman098@reddit
EndeavourOS has the exact same one
Ihaveheartdisease2@reddit
Because they both use calamares.
FrostyDiscipline7558@reddit
The std of installers. ;)
FrostyDiscipline7558@reddit
"Usually, you start with gnome..."
The hell I do.
BNerd1@reddit
is that not just the callamares installer used by multiple distro's
Correctthecorrectors@reddit
This is completely unnecessary. I use arch btw
lKrauzer@reddit
This would confuse people even more
crazyguy5880@reddit
Love how they didn’t even bother designing non free software to fit and just said “looks fine. Ship it!”
MEME_CREW@reddit
Isn't this just Calamares
makinax300@reddit (OP)
Yeah, many people pointed that out. I thought it was an extension or something because Ubuntu and Fedora didn't have it.
Kevin_Kofler@reddit
The Calamares module that does this is optional and has to be set up by the distribution. Also, Fedora does not use Calamares as its default installer to begin with.
Stratdan0@reddit
Cachyos has this too
bradbeckett@reddit
Mandrake Linux had this in ~1999.
Jealous_Ad_1859@reddit
Most of begginer friendly distros are limited to gnome or cinnamon which is only used by mint, this de choice is good for beginners but most beginners use distros with no choice of de, would be cool to see in endeavour or opensuse but both arent used by beginners.
makinax300@reddit (OP)
Ubuntu and fedora have many spins though
Jealous_Ad_1859@reddit
both don't have any choice of de in installer.
makinax300@reddit (OP)
And my idea is to add that
Jealous_Ad_1859@reddit
In these distros you download iso for a de not iso for all de
makinax300@reddit (OP)
And why can't that be changed so the online installer is all distros?
Jealous_Ad_1859@reddit
Most of people use offline installer and fedora and ubuntu doesn't have online installers, maybe that idea would make sense with a website where you choose spin to download or smth like this
Good_gooner6942@reddit
Fedora actually has an online installer and in it you can choose which graphical environment to download.
Good_gooner6942@reddit
https://alt.fedoraproject.org/
https://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/42/Everything/x86_64/iso/Fedora-Everything-netinst-x86_64-42-1.1.iso
makinax300@reddit (OP)
That's great too.
Good_gooner6942@reddit
This only makes sense on distros that don't bother to customize the interface, and this type of distro is not recommended for beginners.
paulshriner@reddit
I'm not sure I agree with this. For NixOS it's fine because that distro targets more advanced users who would want greater choice. However, users new to Linux don't know what different desktop environments are. They want something that works without hassle, and GNOME and KDE fit that. Giving them all these extra choices will just confuse them.
MissionLove7386@reddit
That GUI looks criminally bad though
3X0karibu@reddit
It’s very functional, how would you improve it?
RyeinGoddard@reddit
I only question their sorting method. :D
JailbreakHat@reddit
Why Hyprland isn’t an option here. NixOS is officially supported by Hyprland just like Arch Linux.
JailbreakHat@reddit
Would love to see a similar installer for Arch Linux too. It takes a very long time to manually install it.
evrdev@reddit
cachyos has the same
Particular_Wear_6960@reddit
Doesn't CachyOS do this? Pretty neat feature but I think it's not really necessary, most people know what they want or will do their research beforehand
makinax300@reddit (OP)
Not everyone though. And a lot of people said Cachy OS and Endeavour OS does this, I just couldn't edit the title to make it like "Fedora and Ubuntu should have something like this"
Particular_Wear_6960@reddit
True, I wasn't trying to suggest this is a redundant post just posting stuff off the top of my head. It's good to know this feature is available if I ever switch to nixOS
AgainstScumAndRats@reddit
This is such a non-issue like, you can always pick editions like in Ubuntu or Fedora. Median computer user is not dumb that they would feel cheated because they "unaware" that their OS comes with GNOME or whatever DE installed by default. Most people (that isn't 120 years old grandpa) who plan to immigrate to LINUX likely done their homework first and then jump and not downloading iso blindly and install.
makinax300@reddit (OP)
Ubuntu doesn't tell you about spins Google install Ubuntu. This is the first result ubuntu.com/tutorials/install-ubuntu-desktop No mention of spins. Second result is ubuntu.com/download/desktop Only regular. Fedora does this better but still has problems. Google install fedora. First result is fedoraproject.org/workstation/download Gives a download to the workstation (regular) version. Under there is the fedora media creator which has spins but no previews for spins. Second result is fedoraproject.org Shows gnome and KDE options which is fine enough but with no previews. After that shows non-desktop stuff. Later shows atomic options and spins.
AgainstScumAndRats@reddit
Most people like google about Ubuntu first and not straight up installing it without knowing anything about it.
They'll search whether their laptop/PC support it. They'll search whether the application they need available.
And somewhere along the line they found out about distro, about DE and about spins.
People are not that dumb.
makinax300@reddit (OP)
That's what a live usb is for though. And support is listed on the download page.
AgainstScumAndRats@reddit
AND on top of that, there is a liveusb function to test whether they have the correct desktop, if they somehow ignore the screenshot, the reviews and their own research.
See? Such a non issue.
solodev@reddit
Go look at CachyOS. Has a lot more choices. But it does need to become a default standard for the installer.
makinax300@reddit (OP)
A lot of people said that already
Coll147@reddit
There are several distros that allow this, EndeavourOS, CachyOs I think too
theswansson@reddit
Byee 🥀
Garou-7@reddit
Nix is not for new users.. but still DE choice screen is good option I think other distros do that already.
Recipe-Jaded@reddit
Basically any distro does this besides pop, ubuntu, fedora
Userwerd@reddit
Suse, redhat, mandrake.
This was a super common thing before so many distros standardized on Gnome.
Every install had a choice of at least two DR'S.
eatmynasty@reddit
WTF computer can’t “handle GNOME”?
makinax300@reddit (OP)
i5 8400something with only integrated graphics and 8 GB of ram.
Ohkillz@reddit
Cachyos has configs for like every single DE out there even cosmic
Particular_Wear_6960@reddit
I tried cosmic on a VM and it worked fine but bare metal probably has issues I didn't find, not really that this thread is about but figured I'd share that its further along than I imagined
krisfur@reddit
Yeah CachyOS is my go to for most machines because of it, I can just one click decide what fits a particular machine's use case most.
makinax300@reddit (OP)
NixOS also has cosmic and deepin, this is an old screenshot
arf20__@reddit
Have you seen Debian tasksel? Its been there for decades.
Putrid-Try-5002@reddit
I think this feature o appeared in debian earlier
derangedtranssexual@reddit
Completely disagree more and more distros need to get rid of the option to select different desktop environments, too many distros are scared to make any choices so let the user make a billion of them. There’s a billion distros out there people can just choose a distro that’s designed around the DE they like
QuickSilver010@reddit
Bruh. Have you never seen debian installer? So many desktops and window managers
makinax300@reddit (OP)
Yet no previews.
QuickSilver010@reddit
Did you not use the calamares live installer?
makinax300@reddit (OP)
No, I only did the full screen one. I didn't know of a calamares option.
lazyboy76@reddit
Then this is orange and apple comparison.
makinax300@reddit (OP)
No? Because it should still be in the default
lazyboy76@reddit
OP's picture also Calamares installer on NixOS iso. He just don't know.
makinax300@reddit (OP)
I know what Calamares is though.
kalzEOS@reddit
I know that Endeavour OS, cachy OS and nobara OS all have this. It's a modified calamares installer. But I agree, this should be adopted by any distro that sells itself as a multi-desktop project.
RoofVisual8253@reddit
Reborn OS has a great selection of desktop environments for Arch.
Incredibly easy for newer users.
Reborn OS is so underrated sadly.
karotoland@reddit
endeavouros has it
PureTryOut@reddit
Does it randomise the order of that DE list? Imo it should, people are biased to choosing the first entry as it feels like the recommended option even though the other options are just as good.
makinax300@reddit (OP)
No
PureTryOut@reddit
Even then, GNOME would always be on top and not Plasma. At least randomise those to.
up4Fzy0zzTRriRJ2G2YI@reddit
is there a fork of Nixos without systemd?
calrogman@reddit
NixOS should take some notes from other distro's installers and make it so that their installer doesn't choke when you have a swap partition.
cla_ydoh@reddit
Not saying that DW/WM choices in an installer are bad, but many eons ago, this was the norm for most distros, even ones that had a well defined and supported choice.
It was both cool but also very frustrating, especially as some of those options were not always well sorted. This was on top of the kitchen-sink-for-all-the-things mentality already present for app selections.
The move to a more curated set of applications and a single DE choice (and focus!) that started happening before Ubuntu made it popular probably helped fuel that first big wave of new Linux users.
Basically, imnsho *most* distros probably should not present any choices, or not as many, but maybe there could be a few more that do.
makinax300@reddit (OP)
Yes but then people will be mad about gnome not being aware of KDE. At least these 2 should be here.
wowsomuchempty@reddit
Sway?
Even the alpine installer has sway :*-(
makinax300@reddit (OP)
It's desktop, not window manager. It's even declared in the config differently. It's just a program there. Also, happy cake day.
wowsomuchempty@reddit
Where is compositor section?
It's not my cake day, I just enter random data. Thx tho x
DirtyMen@reddit
It means your reddit account creation day anniversary. For your account it was august 9th 2018
wowsomuchempty@reddit
Ahh.. gotcha
GrandpaOfYourKids@reddit
As much as i love fedora i must admit that this installer is superior. Every distro should have DE choose during installation
wingsfortheirsmiles@reddit
EndeavourOS has this with Plasma as default. Used to have more DEs on there but still a good selection
Unicorn_Colombo@reddit
I remember Ubuntu used to have stuff like this.
wowsomuchempty@reddit
Where is compositor section?
Historical-Bar-305@reddit
Based.