After 2 years in Valencia, we are leaving (Long post!)
Posted by TheHeadlands@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 263 comments
We are a couple in our early 40s with a 4 y.o. daughter, and we moved from Los Angeles, California two years ago. Thought I'd share thoughts about our experience in Valencia, the good and the bad, and why we’re leaving. I thought this kind of post could be useful so that one doesn’t move somewhere with their head in the clouds like we originally did. And this is not meant to insult ANYone to say that a different opinion is wrong; it’s just our experience and opinion.
We lived in two neighborhoods: Benimaclet for 4 months then Ruzafa for the rest.
People and language:
Our experience with people was mostly great: Lots of warm, friendly, and helpful folk, of all ages. We both speak Spanish, and came in with about 65% fluency with great accents, and now of course are even way better—this definitely helped in a major way and we feel is crucial to really get “into” the culture and not just be with expatriates. For my two friends who live there and don’t speak Spanish well, it’s a big problem and they feel somewhat isolated in the ex-patriate community, like they aren’t fully part of the city and the people.
Having a kid also definitely helped with that for us, since Valencia is very family and kid-oriented as a culture, and we had ours in a Spanish day care, then pre-school. But it was still hard to really get “in” with locals, even though they’re mostly friendly and kind. We finally managed to get somewhat “in” with a couple of them after about a year, but we still feel like outsiders overall, which is of course common for expatriates, and much more so if you don’t speak the language..
When talking with locals, some of whom we became friends with, and our friends who were born there, we found a good amount of growing resentment towards expatriates and tourists, which I now understand from living there. That’s a whole other subject, but our experience, as well as the friends who grew up there (two of whom need to move out because they can’t afford rent anymore), helped me understand where that comes from, and I agree with it. It felt uncomfortable for us to be a part of the problem.
The city itself:
Again, this is our individual opinion, but we found Valencia to overall to not be a particularly attractive city. It’s very dirty aside from the touristy areas, and aside from a few of the neighborhoods is a lot of bland, tall apartment buildings. Lots of people smoke and throw butts on the ground, and there’s dog shit all over the place. Plus it’s flat as a pancake. There are some beautiful barrios, for sure, but largely no in our opinion.
While there are lot of wonderful city parks (Turia is amazing in so many ways, among a few others), the actual topography is scrub desert-like. If you like mountains and trees you simply don’t get that (places like Albufera that were recommended to us definitely don’t have even close to the beauty that we were used to in many West Coast areas and other places in the U.S., and you have to drive or take a bus/train to even see them). That was a big problem, one that we didn’t expect to have at first but that grew rapidly since the city itself is, well, a city, and isn’t surrounded by our definition of natural beauty. If you’re cool with driving far or taking long train rides to see great true nature (not city parks), this might not be an issue for you.
There are some amazing museums, places for music, giant indoor multi-vendor food markets, and definitely some gorgeous architecture (mostly in the highly touristy Centro area). You can walk or bike everywhere very easily and the public transport is pretty great, with mostly friendly people riding who will help you out if you have a stroller, etc. We love not needing a car at all—you definitely don’t in Valencia unless you have physical issues that require a car.
The food:
We got bored of the typical Spanish food very quickly. We were used to a huge variety of high-level food (cheap all the way to expensive) in L.A., which Valencia doesn’t have in a reliably quality way. There are without a doubt some fantastic restaurants, but if you come from a big city or other place known for its variety of great food or are a “foodie”, you might be a bit disappointed. Luckily, the various markets have a lot of fresh meats and produce and more, so we ended up cooking way more than we used to, which was actually fun.
Living:
It’s apartment life here, full stop. We had a house in L.A. (rented) and it took a while to get used to living in apartments. Pros and cons, for sure, but for us it ended being a negative because we never felt like we were truly coming “home”, which we were used to feeling at our small house in L.A. that had a garden, etc., because it has its own space and felt like “our place”. You get more community with the apartment life for sure, which is a plus, but again we felt most of the buildings are rather ugly and the apartments were often “meh”. Plus they’re starting to get very expensive in plenty of areas (again: mostly because of people like us and the associated greed of landlords). Our friends from Valencia were saying that apartment rental prices have seen an incredibly steep rise in prices over the past five or so years largely because of expatriates since most locals can’t afford those prices at the salaries one gets in Spain. Still cheaper than L.A., mostly…but actually not always, we found!
We started in Benimaclet, which was OK but bland, then moved to Ruzafa which has more of a San Francisco vibe that we like, albeit with much less trees, which is a bummer. We found people to a bit less warm and friendly overall in that area, but again, speaking Spanish did help.
Crime:
We’ve never had one issue there, and feel safe almost everywhere. There are a few barrios our friends from there told us to avoid, so we did (can’t remember the barrio names).
The general world there:
Spain has a very high unemployment rate, and many young people leave because of that. This is a huge problem country-wide, according to people I know who have lived in Barcelona and Malaga for a very long time. Right now crime is still quite low overall, but that could easily change if things get worse, and the Spanish government itself is very much a mess!
We are leaving because the cons I mentioned outweigh the pros for us. Still undecided on where to go, but we want to be settled somewhere before our daughter turns 7. Valencia feels like a third world city mixed with a first world city in many ways. The big influx of expatriates is a problem there, and it’s increasing the disparity between rich and poor, which is one of the reasons why there’s growing resentment. You might not understand that resentment unless you speak Spanish/start to make friends who are Spanish. And again: The expatriate friends I know there feel like outsiders to actual Spanish people, even after four years for one of them, because they only/mostly have expatriates as friends since they aren’t fluent in Spanish like we are.
__________________________________________________________________________________
Before you make a big move, make sure you know that once you get somewhere your ideal of what you think the place is like will definitely be challenged. We had dreamy eyes about Valencia, as I’m sure many do, so I feel it’s worthy to post about our reality there.
Make sure you understand before responding that our experience is not all negative by any means! Just that the cons outweighed the pros for us.
Top-Point133@reddit
Amèrica is a third world country for us, being Valencia one of the best places in the world it is normal you cannot live here. Also you don't speak Valencian and neither you know nothing about our culture, therefore you don't understand our city and the region.
Don't come back and neither to Catalonia, we are tired of mediocre English speaking like you .
Jazzlike-Bag1809@reddit
Your country has no future and if it weren’t for people like us, it would have collapsed a long time ago. Funny how now you’re in another country trying to make friends and “fit in”. Awww. Newsflash. They’re the same b*tches you are and they most likely won’t accept you. That’s what you get ho3! 🫶
renotory@reddit
They speak Spanish very, very well.
You are a troll - you did not even read their post but came here to cr@p out a bunch of garbage because you are a miserable, hateful troll. Get a life, troll.
DrGordonFreemanScD@reddit
I've lived in the US my entire life, including LA, NY, Miami, Utah, Oregon, New Jersey, and now Maine. Loved them all for different reasons. Traffic is insane in all, excepting Maine. Maine is quiet, and beautiful, and quite boring much of the time. I can handle boring. But the simmering tension in the US not only exposes the underbelly of a lasting inequality that has existed here for a long time, and is getting much worse.
It is not a local phenomena. It's everywhere. There is no escaping it. And the US is no different, and we're heading quickly towards third world inequality. A collapsing empire, if you will. We are waiting for our long term visas to relocate to Altura, Portugal.
Your rose colored glasses don't seem to realize that the only reason LA isn't all desert is because of water appropriation. LA is a desert. I see little difference between the Algarve, and the LA basin, as far as fauna, Admittedly, the Algarve is a bit more geographically 'undulated', and hills are relatively close, but the entire San Joaquin valley is also mostly desert, and only remains fertile because of water appropriations from the Sierras. I remember my first summer in Sacramento when I ran away from home at 15, and summer temps were incredibly hot, although dry. As in 115+.
Another thing to consider is where the US is politically right now. Donald Trump is a weak man, with an unimaginably huge inferiority complex. He's destroying so many things because he cannot be criticized, and he appears to have learned little since middle school. He's a bully, and he is intent on destroying the US, in exchange for a religious theocracy of white christians.
No, thank you. We decided when he was reelected that it was time to leave, no matter the pain, because the pain of staying, while wealthy idiots take over. Maybe you missed the Elon Musk Nazi salute (2 of them, actually) when the Orange Imbecile won.
The time for revoluoi0on is approaching, but revolution is a job for the young, and I do not see that uprising with all the distractions that have been created to keep us pacified. Food prices are rising precipitously, gas we'll ignore because I know it's crazy in the EU, bit those taxes pay for a lot that we'll never get here. We are also in the highest tax bracket, so we'll be taxed at almost 50%.
I am 68 (69 soon), and my wife is 63 (64 a day after I turn 69), and we were both abused as children, and we've had enough of the bullshit. Now, a surprising percentage of people here, mostly MAGA, are not paying close enough attention to see this, but it's happening in many ways.
Jack booted thugs are arresting people in the streets, and I am talking US citizens, legal citizens.
Things are going to get much worse, as we are just starting to see the fallout from his idiotic moves, but you go ahead and come back. Get ready to fight for the welfare of your wife, and child, because words, and protests, and laws are not going to stop these people.
We're also supplying Israel with weapons to murder children in Gaza. I do not want to be a part of that anymore. my wife is also Jewish, and despite what the administration tries to pretend, because of Israel, and Netanyahu, anti-semitism is rising, which quite frankly is easy to see why.
While there are many wonderful people here, the nasty people are in charge now, and they are right now making moves to make sure their minority stays in power forever,
I know you probably don't see much of this where you are (I have many friends in the EU), so I felt it was important to bring you up to speed. These are the first telltale signs of an empire in distress, if not ready to collapse, and the ones who need to see facts, are blinded by partisan lies.
Good luck.
NorCal1977@reddit
This. We’re a gay couple in out 60’s from California. We are retiring in Valencia. Yeah, it’s dirty in places. So is San Francisco, Sacramento and LA. Yeah, there’s dog shit in places, same in every city around the world. Have you been to Paris? Yeah, it’s flat. So are thousands of other cities. You don’t move somewhere in order ro live like you did before. You move for a change. We’re leaving due to the political, social and financial climate. We’re both retired from the UC System with pensions, healthcare and are taking our social security payments. We cannot afford to live like we wish in California and there’s no other state that fits our needs. Spain is it.
TheHeadlands@reddit (OP)
I agree with everything you wrote here. We are not returning to the U.S., we are considering what our options are.
SmokeAndGnomes@reddit
Did you ever leave Valencia?
Giraffetr@reddit
Where did you end up?
DrGordonFreemanScD@reddit
Best of luck to you.
renotory@reddit
Amen to this entire post.
Automatic_Fan_3509@reddit
Thank you for your true assessment of our current political status. Those of us who have stayed behind will fight to become agents of change. Vote Blue
DrGordonFreemanScD@reddit
It is inspiring to see how you have ramped up your actions. I offer my emotional support, and admiration. I hope you succeed. I have seen news that republican voter registration are rising, and it makes no sense to me. The red tide seems to be rising, although I will wager that much of that is actually fake registrations, since they now know they can get away with crap like that. Since Project 2025 is in full swing, and evident to any who care to see, I wonder if you will have the chance to vote again. Without mail-in ballots, we may have to fly back to vote. I'm also wondering why the military, which relies upon mail in voting, have remained silent on this.
Automatic_Fan_3509@reddit
I think it is just the opposite. Many Republicans are becoming disenchanted with Trump, particularly since the raids and city take overs. Mail in ballots are to be determined since each State's Secretary of State or Director of Elections is in charge of the election process, including voter registration and absentee ballot requests. Let's pray this does not happen or it will be the last straw that broke the camels back.
As an American who lived in Valencia for eight years during the 70s, I know how difficult it can be to integrate into the Valencia community. The cultural, language, logistical and culinary differences are astonishing and then there are other nuances such being away from family and options during a personal emergency.
Good luck on your next adventure!
DrGordonFreemanScD@reddit
Thanks. My wife loved our last adventure, when she lost her job in the Portland, Oregon area. We sold the house, and bought an RV, then hit the road for a year. My sister who still lives in Oregon is considering going in with us to purchase a villa. I have another sister there already who encouraged us to make this journey, but she threw us under the bus. I have some friends in other EU countries, and one in Portugal, in Caldas da Rainha, but we'll be fine, I think. The differences we can conquer together, and Perth is still on the table (we're still waiting for our visas).
FrauAmarylis@reddit
I’ve lived car-free for years in the US- NoVa and SoCal.
In Laguna Beach we have Free Rideshare for all residents, free public trolley year-round, and the bus is cheaper than here in London.
What a shame you let traffic ruin your US experience.
DrGordonFreemanScD@reddit
Here in Maine, there is one bus per day that goes to the main towns. Open your box, and realize you are in one with that statement. A very small one. What a shame you let your ignorance blind you.
Sharp_Falcon_5670@reddit
Wow. This pretty much sums it up perfectly.
Tarnmaster@reddit
Yes, it is very depressing and why I want to leave. My wife thinks I am being dramatic?
DrGordonFreemanScD@reddit
If she isn't. she'd not paying close enough attention.
Far-Molasses2974@reddit
and this is exactly why i find myself in this forum, searching for the right place to land when i escape from this rising authoritarian regime with my family.
Nevustech@reddit
Right on.
detroitprof@reddit
I cannot love this comment more. Well said!
GoodGroundbreaking91@reddit
So nice to hear an honest opinion insteda of the usual "I love this amazing city" statement people give for various reasons. I lived there for 10 years and left in 2019 as I saw the writing on the wall back then and the cons were just starting to ouweigh the pros.
Additional-Ad5133@reddit
There are cons as well as pros, but overall Spain is becoming richer thanks to the inward investment from immigration. Spanish people want all the advantages and extra money that immigration brings but want to remove the very people who are bringing them new jobs and growth. Spain needs to attract wealthy expats and disincentivise poorer immigrants. I think that the Valencian administration is doing exactly this with their newer tax incentives. They are drawing the wealthy from other European regions and this will benefit the Spanish in the long run. Suck it up in the meantime !
loulou_s@reddit
wow tu opinion seria genial ponerla en elmapadelalquiler.es para ayudar a otras personas a tomar decisiones con más informacón 🫶
aboutvlad@reddit
i think comparing la to valencia is not appropriate. you need to compare to equal size of the city
Puzzleheaded-Sun7418@reddit
As a Spaniard the resentment is very easy to explain: you come here usually with money and conditions than we could never get. You get stuff that we can’t. Simple as that.
Even if getting a job here many times they offer better conditions and salaries just because you are not Spanish. I’ve seen it in many companies I’ve been working.
I know it’s not your fault but it’s understandable that people get resentment. On top of that with your money you can rent or buy places that we can’t.
Moist-Ninja-6338@reddit
Unless companies are hiring for very specific high level positions why would they not hire locals at similar rates? I really don’t believe that expats are the main cause of your issues. The fault lays entirely with your government. Their policies create high youth employment, their high taxes discourages investment and the best and brightest level. Your employment laws discourage companies from creating permanent full time positions. And there are many other examples. However it is easier to blame the expats. If all the expats left your problems wouldn’t go away.
Puzzleheaded-Sun7418@reddit
Again I’m not saying it’s foreigner’s fault because it isn’t. But what I say it’s true. You can drop by Spanish subreddits and see posts like “is 75k enough to live in Barcelona?” While I work in IT and my highest offer was 40k and everybody around makes less than that (in Madrid). So no idea why is that but it happens. In fact I’m married to a foreigner and he gets offered more money than me. One company long time ago told me “because he expects more salary we can’t offer less, he’s from Northern Europe”. So no idea if it’s that or what but happens.
Obviously the fault is from the company that pays peanuts and treats us like shit.
Then the tourists with x3 money than us and the few locals taking advantage of it getting ritcher, while the rest have to move outside seeing how there are not options for us while the one that come from abroad can enjoy those places (our neighbourhoods where we grew up, etc). Again not their fault but it’s only normal that people are fed up and resented.
Minimum_Rice555@reddit
Hey it's a super old comment but it resonated with me. It doesn't really have to do with being a foreigner or not, but the skill level and value you are able to produce. If you want an in depth explanation (blog from Spanish author), it explains why one job in tech has 40k and other has 70k. Mercadona doesn't pay the same as Amazon in Spain and the blog explains why.
https://www.getmanfred.com/en/blog/the-trimodal-nature-of-tech-salaries-in-spain
LanguesLinguistiques@reddit
Well, judging by the fact that when they weren't here the problem didn't exist, I'd say the "expats" (rich immigrants) play a big role in the housing crisis. A good job before could give someone a future, now a good job can't. Get it?
Puzzleheaded-Meet513@reddit
White immigrants*
Let's be real. These are racist distinctions, not financial ones.
CMBravo16@reddit
remember ,most iof those airB&B are owned by spaniards.just saying !
Puzzleheaded-Sun7418@reddit
I think in many parts it’s not only Spaniards. There are a lot of foreigners that buy and make an Airbnb in the coast too.
In any case it’s messed up anyway.
CMBravo16@reddit
you are correct, I just read of a large purchase of homes in Spain by a UK corp ,many homes!Unfortunatly the locals will often blame the inmigrant ?expat resident that moves to Spain with higher purchasing power.But absent of credit will have to incurr in large deposits often time 6 to 12 month in advance .Locals do not seem to agnolege the economic benefit
Puzzleheaded-Sun7418@reddit
But what is the economic benefit if you have somebody that doesn’t live there and rents every week to some other foreigner? Where does that benefit go?
Not saying foreigners are the only ones to blaim though but it is clear that that precisely is part of the problem.
CMBravo16@reddit
Again that is correct, in the broader sence of the matter we know the elephant in the room is foreign own money speculating .Id be courios to lear what persentage of the market is dominated as such.It may change over the future in light of recent legislation conserning AirB&B licencing .Good chating with you
Puzzleheaded-Sun7418@reddit
It is quite high. The most recent article claims that 23% of the sales in Barcelona are to foreigners. Idealista claims 20% on average but it is from a year ago and it also depends on the region (Valencia is a huge one too with for example places where 66% of the sales are for foreigners
So no doubt this is a big problem too. Considering everybody northern than the Pyrenees make a lot more money than us. So if prices rise it’s obvious that they may afford it better than locals.
Brilliant_Quit4307@reddit
I'm trying to understand this, because I honestly do understand where the resentment comes from but it seems misguided to me. If Spanish people are leaving because they can't afford to live in their own cities, aren't they just causing those same problems elsewhere themselves? For example, I'm from Dublin and I can't afford to live there, so I moved somewhere that I can afford to live in which just happens to be Spain. The same could be said for people who grew up in London, Amsterdam, etc. so it seems like this is a global issue and not unique to Spain, but the resentment is something that seems very pronounced in Spain. I'm not sure I can see any solution other than resenting the governments' lack of action. Resenting people for trying to find an independent life they can afford just seems misguided to me.
Additional_Ear8551@reddit
It is the typical hating culture of people that loves to blame others for being losers themselves. The influx of so called "rich immigrants" is in reality an opportunity for the city to develop and become wealthier. Maybe you should remind those people that complain about the rich immigrants today making their lives horrible how was valencia in 2010 when the real estate bubble crashed and the entire city was for sale - back in those days there were little tourists and no rich immigrants and the city was in full desperation and depression mode. Now those rich immigrants made their worthless real estate ( you could buy flats or commercial activities for peanuts like 50K back in those days) worth much more and opened a lot of job opportunities in the hospitality sector. Obviously, I understand that many people feel left behind due to the costs of living increase but first of all, costs of living increase are everywhere in the world due to global money printing and second, there are still many places just outside of valencia which are totally affordable where they can move. If you are not able to land a good job or being an entrapeneur and you want to spend half of your day sitting outside of a bar drinking cerveza, well you must understand that you cant afford to live in colon or the eixample district.
ActuaryPure@reddit
100% agree but you have people on here who want to blame others for trying to find a place to live that they can afford. It doesn’t make any sense.
DrGordonFreemanScD@reddit
You do realize that much of that is equally put upon those in the EU capitalizing upon that market dynamic, right? Spaniards. Portuguese. Everyone with too much money, everywhere. The prices would not be so high is your own people were not also playing that game. It ain't tourists that are the real problem: it's the locals wop can take advantage, taking advantage,
LanguesLinguistiques@reddit
Tourists are the ones feeding into the problem. If they stop coming, it wouldn't be beneficial for the people taking advantage of it because they were poor.
ActuaryPure@reddit
How do you seen the tourism campaigns to come to Spain? to move to Spain? to work in Spain? Have you seen the visa opportunities for people outside of Spain? This is not a tourist problem.
LanguesLinguistiques@reddit
Yes it is. It's also a problem with others are also exploiting, like "digital nomads", and "investments." But don't think tourists don't share responsibility in this. I saw a building remove families, one by one, and replace them with Airbnb's so that tourists could replace them.
ActuaryPure@reddit
That’s a government problem and the locals benefiting from tourists. People are always going to visit cities. How many cities have you visited? Do you travel outside the city? Do you go anywhere? They’re all enticing you to go and see their city. The people who benefit from tourists like in Barcelona are the local Catalans who own these apartments for years! They’re very very happy the tours are here paying high rents. Those are the people that need to be Targeted.
LanguesLinguistiques@reddit
There's a free market and the tourists are complicit in the matter. They don't get to wash their hands and just blame everyone but themselves. Sure, the government can take mesures to control tourism, but those apartments aren't just "mom and pop" Catalans, but agencies that accumulated property to rent to tourists. Tourists should be more conscious of the harm they do, but they're to self-centered and turn a blind eye. There's always been tourism in Spain, but it was more responsible before. This is abuse, and tourists should know that. They 100% don't care about people's livelihoods in their own countries and probably contribute to it there are well, so I'm not surprised.
ActuaryPure@reddit
You just made my argument. They are agencies that own the apartments agencies that are based here in Barcelona that benefit from all kinds of tourism. Again a government problem don’t be upset at people traveling outside the country - again have you never been a tourist anywhere outside of your country? Should you never leave again? Are you not ever taking another trip?
LanguesLinguistiques@reddit
No, you're trying to absolve tourists from all responsibility when they are the ones who feed and egg on exploitation. They are very much responsible and should never be left out of the equation. You think the exploiting is coming from thin air?
ActuaryPure@reddit
It’s called travel and everyone, at one point, visits another country - they shouldn’t feel ashamed for doing it. I hundred percent disagree. again, I ask you have you ever been a tourist in another country?
LanguesLinguistiques@reddit
They're accomplices to the decadence of locals' lives because they need to take advantage of cheap prices at the expense of another population. They most certainly should be ashamed. I'm not talking about responsible tourism that existed before these tourists began and fed into this speculation market. It takes two to tango.
ActuaryPure@reddit
Still 100% disagree. This is a ridiculous argument about tourism.
LanguesLinguistiques@reddit
Of course we disagree. You're giving these ghouls a pass for what they did and continue to do with the local population's livelihoods. They're the lifeline to speculation and could end it since they're the ones feeding into it.
ActuaryPure@reddit
False
DrGordonFreemanScD@reddit
Ah, but they are always going to come. There is inequality, of the imported kind, there. Unfair to some, and more fair to others. We are in between those. The rulers are now in the open, with clear support, and Black Rock is coming for all of us.
and again
humans are the problem
Automatic_Fan_3509@reddit
Low Spanish salaries have been a problem since the Franco years. Yet, Spaniards with their mañana" attitude, or Mañana Habit, refers to a procrastinative tendency to delay tasks until "tomorrow," do not do anything to change their economy.
DrGordonFreemanScD@reddit
Thanks for that perspective. I guess there must be a cultural aspect to many societal woes, and this is a good example. I'm thinking the cultural aspect in the USA would be to be trending, "sink, or swim", and to a certain extent, I can see how too much comfort in a lazier lifestyle can also lead to a lack of desire to achieve something greater than what you have, or think you are able to. But we have plenty f homeless people in the US, and too many people in prisons, so that would be the downside.
Automatic_Fan_3509@reddit
Thank you. yes, I agree the homelessness and housing insecurity has become a global issue. I should point out that the U.S. is not the only country with the highest incarceration rates.
Puzzleheaded-Sun7418@reddit
Please re-read my comment as I said I DO realise foreigners are not the problem but locals taking advantage of that.
But I am explaining where the resentment comes from as it’s a human response to a shitty situation for the locals.
DrGordonFreemanScD@reddit
I read it the first time. I understand what you wrote. I added my 2 cents. Quite frankly I find your suggestion insulting, but not so much that I feel the need to retaliate. There are many ways to view that resentment. Life is tough. I've slept in the freezing rain on a park bench. I've literally lived on the street when my family deserted me.
Have you. I spent 3 1/2 years in Bellevue Hospital, and later in the Astor Home for Children when my mother murdered my baby brother (I was 7). She told me my sister had done it. I confessed to protect my sister. I raised myself up against incredible odds, and still became a compassionate human being. Others with far fewer challenges complain about the way things are, instead of actually doing something for themselves.
Now is their time to rise up, or shut up. A human response requires lifting yourself out of whatever hole you created, and becoming better. Complaining about it does nothing. Resentment should focus inward, at all times, to find where you can be better. I had my childhood stolen from me by someone who was a weak complainer. I have no sympathy for people like that.
And if it becomes my problem, then I will do something about it myself, instead of trying to make other people responsible for my actions, or lack of action. Now YOU might understand my POV.
Muito Obrigado
LanguesLinguistiques@reddit
No, this isn't a personal problem, this is a systematic problem. A problem that didn't exist 9 years ago and people were living fine. Don't throw this on people when it's the system that's responsible. Yes, the predatory system.
DrGordonFreemanScD@reddit
Systematic, yes. It is war, technically, although the soldiers wear tailored Italian suits, and use pens, instead of the swords the peasants will eventually be forced to use.
Tall_Lab4@reddit
Wow, POV acknowledged. However, do not allow your struggle to harden you against very real responsibilities others have towards you and in this case government has to its citizens-particularly since there are hefty taxes paid. YOU alone can’t solve it all-
Reducing this to a simple complaint and trying to take it on all yourself is ridiculous—no accountability, and a freedom to anyone including governments to continue Criminal Treatment-discussions even “complaining” lead to solutions and action—often collective so there it is.
Automatic_Fan_3509@reddit
Yikes, Valencia envidia is an ugly thing.
Puzzleheaded-Sun7418@reddit
I’m not even from there wtf. Just explaining where it comes from
Automatic_Fan_3509@reddit
From living in Valencia for eight years.
Minimum_Rice555@reddit
I wish the tourism money could be translated into better quality jobs for more people. I think it would solve a lot of problems if people would be better compensated for the hard work they put in. I find Spanish people very hardworking. Maybe not as proactive, BUT if I had a €1000 job with look to maaaybe earn €1100 in the future, I wouldn't be either.
szayl@reddit
That would require competent local and regional governance.
LanguesLinguistiques@reddit
How are intelligent people who have higher education degrees going to make money working in the tourism sector? Companies just come to give low wages to educated people and tourism will never make you money for a sustainable life (retirement, buying a house/apartment).
szayl@reddit
That's not the point.
Intelligent investment of tax revenue from the tourism industry could (should!) be tagged for programs that promote increased economic diversification.
Folks complain about excessive tourism in Spain. Increased taxes on the industry could lead to slightly lower activity while increasing revenues that could be used for domestic endeavors. It would be a win-win but would require competent local and regional governance.
DrGordonFreemanScD@reddit
it would also require people to be more empathetic, and not so greedy, because this is a "humans suck' PROBLEM.
Intelectual_Y_Tal@reddit
This is what happens in the US as well in touristy cities it’s not sustainable
Puzzleheaded-Sun7418@reddit
I agree. But I don’t think we care about career or whatever that much. At least it would be nice to get the same conditions and salary than than expats in our jobs so we are able to afford the same as them.
Sorry if my comment also has resentment it really sucks how even here in Reddit (like r/GoingToSpain) I see people getting jobs that are not even close to what I could ever get in my own country. I had to also move abroad to get that ! I’m more valued abroad than back home. It’s ridiculous!.
Again, I know it’s not foreigner’s fault. But still it sucks for locals
anewlo@reddit
This resonates. So many countries whose politicians succeed on complaining about immigration produce an environment that encourages emigration.
Fladnarus@reddit
Our government does not complain about inmigration. They wants more inmigration to help companies keep salaries low and maximize profits.
TheHeadlands@reddit (OP)
I'm gonna repost my post in GoingToSpain, didn't know it existed.
TheHeadlands@reddit (OP)
It really does, agreed.
ConsiderationHot143@reddit
Airbnbs ruining a lot of areas, I hear. I was thinking about doing it, not in Spain, but now thinking twice. I wish there was a way I could use my money to contribute to the economy and society in a positive way, and to let the area retain its culture instead of erode it. It seems like many people want to puppet the ultra-rich families and milk what they can get out of society. Worship of money has ruined our societies. I know it's reality. I'm searching to see if there's an alternative way to live.
ang444@reddit
This is such an honest and valid take — thank you for saying it.
I’ve seen something very similar happen in Mexico, especially in places like Mexico City and coastal towns. With remote work and currency differences, many foreigners (often unintentionally) price locals out of neighborhoods, drive up rents, and shift the economy in a way that benefits outsiders more than residents.
Add Airbnbs and digital nomad enclaves, and it gets even more unsustainable.
It’s not about blaming individuals, but recognizing the structural imbalance and the resentment that naturally grows from watching your own home become less and less livable — while others seem to flourish in it.bc of their privilege of coming from abroad
Puzzleheaded-Sun7418@reddit
Yes, it’s not only in Spain obviously. It just sucks that governments don’t prevent that. In the end it creates a climate of resentment against any foreigner which is really nasty. It’s not their fault! But they get the nice things and you don’t. That’s where it comes from
Bloody_Punisher@reddit
Yes, is their fault too, of course.
TheHeadlands@reddit (OP)
Yes exactly, that's what I mentioned in the post.
Nudibranchito@reddit
As someone from Castellón who has been living in Valencia for the past six years, I’m honestly impressed by how well you’ve captured the city’s current situation and its overall vibe. I agree with many of the points you mentioned, but I think that some of the aspects that may have disappointed you are probably due to the fact that the Mediterranean lifestyle is very different from life in LA (so a bit of culture shock is totally normal).
I’m not trying to argue or start a debate at all. I just felt it could be enriching to join the conversation on a post I found really interesting. So, if you don’t mind, I’d like to add my two cents with a few counterpoints.
First of all: Food! Spanish cuisine is incredibly diverse and wide-ranging. I think Valencia offers great gastronomical options in which the typical food from the rest of Spanish regions is very well represented. However, they're not in the city center, and they're usually not very popular among expats. And for the record, Spanish people don’t eat paella, tortilla and croquetas every single day. Everyone would also get sick of it if we did, hehehe!! We don't usually eat out a lot. Instead, we're very used to buy fresh & seasonal products and cook them at home. Furthermore, I definitely believe there are loads of international food options in Valencia that feel really authentic and are run by pople from those countries.
Secondly, it’s very common to live in apartments in big Spanish cities. Unfortunately, we don’t really have those huge residential neighborhoods with enormous houses and gardens like in the US. People who want that kind of lifestyle usually move to the small towns around Valencia or live in villages from inland the region.
As for Valencia’s neighborhoods… HOW is Benimaclet BLAND? (Ouch :( ) To me, it’s one of the most multicultural areas in the whole city and it has a unique personality! But I have to agree with you about Russafa. That part of the city is way too taken over by the guiris. It used to be a lovely neighbourhood back then but now it's plagued with B&Bs andhas lost most of its authenticity. So, to anyone considering living in Valencia I’d say that Ayora, some parts of the Cabanyal, and Benimaclet are still some of the most genuinely authentic neighborhoods left in Valencia (and may I dare say the less expensive ???).
Finally, I’m really sorry that some of your friends still feel unwelcome in Valencia. But honestly, learning the language of the country you live in is the bare minimum if you want to integrate into society. In fact, there’s a well-known influencer in Valencia who’s American and speaks perfect Valencian (I though he was a native at first), and we consider him way more local and Valencian than many Valencians themselves (@kevin.abroadinvalencia).Anyway, I really enjoyed your post. Best of luck in your search for a new city to call home!! (As a nature lover myself, you might want to try other parts of Spain. The northen regions are STUNNING).
Warm regards and a big hug from a former Valencian neighbor!!! <3
NiemandDaar@reddit
Only saw this just now. We are expats who bought a small apartment in Valencia and are now spending the winters here. Even before we bought here, there were already 100,000 expats here in a population of 800,000. I understand the issues, esp. since our upstairs neighbor has spoken about them with me. But in our case, the other side is that after retirement in the NYC area, there was no way we could decently live there on our new income. So, while we’re “invaders” here, we were also priced out of the area we lived in for some 30 years. And, as always, there’s the fact that Spain has since the 70s lived to a large extent from tourist and other foreign income and has thereby often destroyed its coastline with horrible developments. It’s way more complicated than a bunch of foreigners buying houses.
As for Valencia, like any other place, it has its pros and cons.
Empty-Hippo8581@reddit
To those keyboard warriors who spend all day complaining about tourists and foreigners, you’re truly pathetic. Does it really matter where someone come from? The only thing matters is how you behave and integrate into a city. Just look at how some of the locals behave, throwing cigarette butts everywhere, not clean up their dog shit, and some even piss against trees in the park (I’ve personally witnessed twice). What gives people like that the right to bark at others?
I’ve lived long-term in Toronto, Calgary, Beijing, and Seoul. I’ve now been in Valencia for 14 months, and it is hands-down the worst city I’ve ever lived in. Dirty, some very rude ppl, banking system even worse than communist countrys. I basically agree with everything the poster said.
Constantly whining about foreigners and spray-painting childish stuff like “tourist go home” on your own city walls isn’t going to change anything. just think about where all that massive tourist tax revenue your government collects is actually going, and how corrupted ur own system is, then come back and complain.
HorrorReserve2527@reddit
Thanks for such an honest opinion that is so different and real. I totally agree with all what you said, I was actually wondering why is all the hype for Valencia when ,as you said, it looks like a very poor and under-developed city, very tall and bland buildings everywhere and has very few green areas, even the turia river bed looks so artificial and is very strange visually as it's under busy roads and bridges so you don't feel any peace or tranquility at all! I'm glad someone wrote that here so other families planning on moving there might see the reality as all other blogs and vidoes say otherwise. On another note, I absolutely loved Malaga and Andalucia region in general, so maybe have a look there if you're still considering Spain. Good luck to you and your family.
One_Profession_2740@reddit
Entiendo perfectamente vuestra perspectiva; al final, la experiencia de emigrar es tan personal como subjetiva. Sin embargo, como hijo de personas que vinieron a Valencia y se enamoraron, y marido de una persona también de fuera que vino a Valencia y jamás se quiso ir, creo que gran parte de esa visión depende de con quién y cómo hayas descubierto Valencia. Es cierto que mi mujer me dijo en su día que había estado antes de conocerme en "otra Valencia".
A veces, si no vas de la mano de las personas indicadas, te quedas en la superficie de "ciudad de apartamentos" y te pierdes la esencia que la hace una de las mejores ciudades del mundo para vivir. Aquí algunos puntos que quizás no llegasteis a exprimir del todo:
Siento que os hayáis sentido como "forasteros", pero toda la experiencia de personas que comparto es la contraria: Valencia abraza a quien viene con ganas de echar raíces. Quizás os faltó ese guía local. ¡Mucha suerte en vuestro próximo destino!
xPositor@reddit
🤦
ZeChickenPermission@reddit
Leaves the same wage gaps that it does in the US, that the middle class doesn't exist anymore (imho). Only time will tell if Europe (and the rest of the world TBH) will regulate the problems.
Numerous-Warning-242@reddit
Sinceramente tu aporte es nulo. Es todo muy general. Ni siquiera comentas si has probado el allipebre, la coca de llanda o un reguiño. Seguro que tampoco has acabado de comer con una mistela. Un guiri más en el cap i casal.
00zxcvbnmnbvcxz@reddit
Have you thought about the north? It’s like a different country. Oviedo and Santander and San Sebastián have a completely different feel than southern Spain. Beautiful lush green countryside all around, similar yo Oregon or Northern California. I moved to Madrid from LA, and my Spanish partner and I are seriously thinking of buying a house up there to get away from the Madrid heat.
rystrm@reddit
Isn't it too rainy?
00zxcvbnmnbvcxz@reddit
Oh it’s extremely rainy!
Bloody_Punisher@reddit
No, fuera de España tú también, parásito.
00zxcvbnmnbvcxz@reddit
Jajajaja 👍🏻😎👍🏻
rystrm@reddit
"(edit: third world is the wrong way to describe it, my bad!)"
No, it's not.
I actually understand exactly what you mean so I appreciate your description. Threads like this are supposed to be useful and informative, not overly censored to protect overly sensitive readers.
Millennial_Snowbird@reddit
OP can you elaborate on what felt “third world” about parts of Valencia?
I’m sure your house is in a nice part of LA but I’ve seen some very rough built environments in US cities, eg. abandoned lots behind barbed wire festooned with shredded plastic bags, tap water that’s almost undrinkable, shacks with monster pickup trucks out front, people struggling to walk with foot ulcers and infections from untreated diabetes.
TheHeadlands@reddit (OP)
That was probably the wrong word choice, I admit! I meant that it's pretty dirty overall and feels a bit ramshackle in many areas. I've done a ton of traveling, and those parts reminded me a bit of third-world places I've been. Yes there are parts in U.S. cities like that (and worse) for sure, definitely including L.A. But a more subtle version of it permeates a lot of Valencia, in our opinion.
Crominoloog@reddit
Third world isn't really a term we are using anymore (at all), gracias
rystrm@reddit
We are.
If you don't use it, good for you but take your virtue signaling somewhere else.
jami354@reddit
Many people still use it. It is innocuous. Get over it
JackZLCC@reddit
Not to mention, not all so-called "developing" countries are actually developing. They're just statements in their 3rd world state. Conversely, countries like the US are devolving, but at the moment are still 1st world.
It's the difference between a time series and the rate of change of that time series. The value of the time series itself is what determines where the country is on the current scale.Or to take it to a basic calculus level analogy, it's the function vs the first derivative of that function (assuming the function has generally benign properties and thus can be differentiated.)
Crominoloog@reddit
Haha this is most BS I read in a while. What makes them third world? Is there a second world? And a fourth? How do you define it?
JackZLCC@reddit
You're being intentionally obtuse. You know what 3rd world means. So does everyone reading this. If you choose to make it an insult, that says a lot about your biased view of people based on economic and political circumstance and nothing about me and my desire to speak about reality.
I'm not saying there's anything bad or wrong about these countries and their people because they're classified as 3rd world, but it seems as though you're inferring that.
Again, I'm going based on reality, not some aspirational desire to protect people's feelings by calling all 3rd world countries "developing."
And BTW, I did not say, nor did I imply, that some countries are not developing. Indeed, this is a separate metric, and it's possible for a country to be both 3rd world and developing. It's also for a country to be 1st or 2nd world and developing. And all other combinations of these two separate classifications are possible as well.
If you just want to be offended, be offended. But don't pass it off as some kind of meaningful contribution to the discourse.
Crominoloog@reddit
Look, you clearly know noting about the historical and political context of the term 'third world' or about the current international political discourse - a context and discourse that has real consequences in today's world. That's fine, but don't come lecturing me with your novel and say it's about me getting offended.
Maybe do some reading before acting like a know-it-all - a simple Wikipedia would already do a lot. And listen to the actual people you are talking about.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Anthropology/comments/kufhzw/memo_to_people_of_earth_third_world_is_an/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9185389/
Cojemos@reddit
Agree. Many of the developing countries have more more going on than the un-developing USA. USA feels more "3rd world" to me. But at least in developing countries they offer health care to their citizens.
Millennial_Snowbird@reddit
Thanks, that’s a helpful clarification. I’ll admit I latched onto the term “third world” mostly bc the US’ current president likes to call other places ‘shithole countries’ while arguably presiding over one himself.
rystrm@reddit
Oh c'mon, pleazze. This thread is supposed to be useful and "third world" does a great job at explaining the feeling.
Go be overly sensitive somewhere else.
jami354@reddit
I know some people get butthurt about the term you latched onto and DT has said many antagonistic things and implemented many terrible policies, but the country (on the whole) that he presides over is definitely not a ‘shit hole’.
Millennial_Snowbird@reddit
If not shithole, then why shithole shaped? News comes out of the US almost every day of the week reeking of corruption, heinous crimes, cruelty and fascism.
jami354@reddit
Yes, l acknowledged what our president has done, but I think you are making a dramatic overstatement. If you turn off the TV or log off of reddit for five minutes and go outside your house/apartment you would find that there is a rather high QOL here, with beautiful outdoors, diverse culture and warm and friendly people
Top-Half7224@reddit
Not to mention salaries that are almost always higher than their counterparts anywhere else in the western world.
flimflamflippyflappy@reddit
Salaries in the US are definitely higher, but so is the cost of living. The irony in this post is that people from the states are immigrating because they're probably also being priced out of their neighborhoods.
Having a higher salary ONLY works if you leave the US. If you stay, you dont actually get to enjoy anything, you are working all of the time, only get 2 weeks vacation per year, IF YOURE LUCKY. Only get a handful of sick days per year, as if you can control that. Even then, you usually are still expected to keep up with your work while youre off.
Not to mention the ASTRONOMICAL cost of health insurance. I dont think many people realize that Americans pay about 800-1000 PER MONTH on private Healthcare and that's if you have the luck of getting good insurance through your job. Even with private insurance, you still have to pay the first 2000 in bills per year and you still pay 20% of the medical bill, which has been inflated because its all make believe + corporate greed. All of that if youre LUCKY enough to not have that insurance just flat out tell you they choose not to cover that medicine or procedure.
Going out ANYWHERE these days somehow costs at least 100 dollars for some reason. And youre expected to tip on everything because minimum wage is not a living wage.
I think foreigners understand the gentrification issue because it has happened in our cities (at least in the US). Nobody wants to drive up costs, they just want to be able to afford life without constant grind and stress.
Its a shitty situation for everyone .
ataraxia_555@reddit
One word to describe the United States with 340 million people speaking 350 languages across an area of 9,833,520 km². Let’s be a bit more precise with our language, millennial_snowbird.
TheHeadlands@reddit (OP)
Totally, yes. That was def the wrong for me to use.
jenthebluehen@reddit
At least Valencia doesn't have the homeless camps that infest LA.
Bloody_Punisher@reddit
LOL this anglo sub human are absolutely stupid, ridiculous and retarded, like a good redneck product of the incest living in his own fantasy reallity.
Understand, 160kg sub human, your disgusting country is a big pile os scum/shit, a 3rd world country without NOTHING, a scumhole with just some rich neiborhoods. 3er world people, 3rd world infrastructure, 3rd world public services, dirty and old (just look your metro, god) like a 3rd world country.
You really talk bad about the spanish gastronomy? LOL you say ''Spain is dirty''? LOL ''expat''? you are just a parasite inmigrant.
Goodbye, thanks, see you never.
lauzier@reddit
u/TheHeadlands Is Barcelona on your list as a potential place to land? We are thinking about a move there from LA on a non-lucrative visa, but only just starting to research. No kids, 40s as well.
Terrible_Stay7@reddit
Not sure why you chose Spain over Portugal but you could come straight to Portugal if you get a visa. No need to go back to the shitshow dumpster fire of the US.
TanSuitObama1@reddit
As an American, I dont get this term "expatriate." You are an immigrant. Its odd we will describe ourselves as so when moving to another country, but will not apply that term to those who immigrant into ours...
afurtherdoggo@reddit
Honestly, if you are coming from LA you will be disappointed by pretty much everywhere on the planet, as no culture on earth spends as much time and money on eating out as Americans do. Most places, even rich developed places, will not come anywhere near a city like LA if you are a "foodie".
wovertuser@reddit
In terms of food at least, there's Tokyo. I don't think anyone eats out as much as the Japanese do. And they are obsessed with food quality and variety, and people generally have very distinguishing palates. Plus a lot of the chefs are perfectionists, and the wait staff are almost always attentive and polite.
Top-Half7224@reddit
Honestly, I have never met anyone from California who can settle outside of California. They always want "the best" of everything, move to a cheaper country thinking they can afford more, then become disillusioned when it isn't a cheaper version of where they came from.
Automatic_Fan_3509@reddit
That's because Los Angeles County and Orange County have it all.
ActuaryPure@reddit
Not true. I’m from California and live in Barcelona and have for six years. Obviously being in Barcelona I have a zillion choices for food that are fantastic. I love not having a car. The only thing I cannot stand about the city, and maybe it’s the culture, is the smoking and throwing cigarette butts all over like living in a giant ashtray - but that’s Europe.
FrauAmarylis@reddit
We are from CA and loved Germany! We were sad to move to Hawaii when my husband got a promotion!
Automatic_Fan_3509@reddit
Additionally, Valencia is provincial compared to Los Angeles in terms of concerts, sports venues, entertainment, museums, weather, multiculturalism, etc.
PointReyes7@reddit
Wow, you sound like me! We are also in L.A. right now. We were just in Valencia for a month and I have to agree with everything you said here. I'm not entirely sold on moving there, so it's interesting to see someone else have the same view after having been there for a couple years. We also feel strongly about what expatriates do to the locals there, it's hard to swallow.
On another note, are you from the Bay Area originally? I'm asking because The Headlands are one of my fav places there (I grew up in Corte Madera).
jenthebluehen@reddit
"We also feel strongly about what expatriates do to the locals there, it's hard to swallow."
What are you talking about? The expats don't DO ANYTHING to the locals.
TheHeadlands@reddit (OP)
That's wild, yes we're both from San Francisco. Love the Headlands (obviously)! And of course, Point Reyes!
jenthebluehen@reddit
I am so glad you wrote this so less people like you will come and live in Valencia!!
liesel7697@reddit
Thanks for sharing all of this. I'll be in Valencia in a few days and wonder about the neighborhoods you lived in. Were those decent neighborhoods for families? I'm looking for family oriented areas in or around Valencia if you have any suggestions.
korkkari@reddit
¡Qué bueno que te fuiste de aquí, imbécil!
Tus críticas a zonas y comidas lo dicen todo.
Los mejores chefs y sumilleres del mundo están enamorados de España.
Eres un oportunista superficial como todos los estadounidenses. ¡Que te vaya bien!
Hagamos grande a España de nuevo: ¡mantengamos fuera a esos niños ricos estadounidenses que no trabajan!
Good riddance entitled bitch. Your criticism of areas and foods reveals everything we have to know. World's top chef's and sommelier's are above all in love with Spain. You're a shallow opportunist like all other Americans. Do not let the door hit you on the way out! Make Spain Great Again by keeping American trust fund brats who do not work, out.
LeastInsurance5834@reddit
Where are you guys moving to? Back to CA or a different part of Spain?
Brilliant-Skirt9007@reddit
Good, bye bye, we don't want americans here anyways
Strict-Ride-391@reddit
I appreciate your honesty, it is all relative to your experience. If you could live anywhere else in Spain where would you live? I was living in San Sebastain and loved it there, but not a big ex-pat community and the Basque were not very warm; friendly once you got to know them but they are just very reserved. Curious to see where you guys ended up and get your opinion on other areas you liked. :-)
Minimum_Rice555@reddit
The canary islands - tenerife and fuerteventura have the best "expat/digital nomad" communities, lots of coworking, parties etc.
Melodic_Gear_9739@reddit
Where's the parties?
Strict-Ride-391@reddit
Awesome thank you for the feedback, I appreciate it.
hiimreddy@reddit
I'm curious if the resentment towards expats is palpable if you live on the outskirts of the city? We're interested in living about 30-40 minutes outside the city.
Additional_Ear8551@reddit
Probably the best summary about Valencia I have heard and I know this city since 2010. If I may add, Valencia is also one of the noisiest cities I have lived (way more than London or other bigger cities than Valencia) due to a combination of boulevards and very dense high building which bounce the sounds practically all day. I would say, generally speaking , Valencia does not offer quality in anything from real estate (95% of the places are just meh without insulation,heating, or sound proof window) to restaurants or entertainment (without offending anybody but you can see a lot of spanish people loving eating some bocadillo or patata bravas in some chinese bar and be happy with that). Obviously there are some nice restaurants or flats but if you come from some top cities and expect quality options, you will find very few. This was all good and a compromise to be made as long as it was very affordable until 2014/5 but nowdays with prices that are literally competing with the best cities in Europe, it does not sounds like a good deal at all.
CMDRJohnCasey@reddit
I lived in Valencia 6 years and there are some cons that you said that I'd rather object to.
First of all, nature is not that far. Hoces del Cabriel for instance it's just 1hr drive. In 1hr from LA probably you are still stuck in traffic. El racó d'Ademuz another place with nature. You can even ski at Javalambre 1h40 by car. Albarracin 2h. I now live in Paris and It takes 2h just to get out of the city during the weekends.
Second, yes there are many apartments but there are also many individual homes on the outskirts. I have a friend that lives in an individual home in La Canyada; he also has public transportation close. I also knew someone living in an old finca.
TheHeadlands@reddit (OP)
I hear you, yeah, thanks for the response. I think for us, being able to SEE the nature around us is important. I grew up in the Bay Area in California, so that's been imprinted on me, for better or for worse. In L.A., which I don't like personally as a city overall, you can see green mountains around you in many areas. It's just a personal preference.
True about the houses on the outskirts, those areas just aren't for us personally.
Funny_Top_7398@reddit
I can relate. For 50 years i lived in the Bay Area (Marín, San Francisco, Palo Alto and Menlo Park) I was downright spoiled but wanted to experience something different so I moved to LA Area (Riverside) i knew I would take a weather hit but did not know what that REALLY meant. Riverside had it’s pluses and minuses. I am now in Valencia and my feelings map to yours exactly. Trying hard not to be a spoiled idiot from the USA and live in the moment. I know I Am not contributing anything useful on this post but just wanted to reach out and validate your thoughts. I will add one little thought. I know that Valencia goverence is taking steps to beautiful the city and upgrade many of the neighborhoods, in some ways it reminds me of SF before the earthquake and the city got it’s pretty on. Mostly happened because of tech (which i was a part of) but than that drove up the prices. It is hard to have it both days unfortunately .
CMDRJohnCasey@reddit
Yeah I can understand It. My hometown is Genoa and we can see the sea (and often the mountains) from everywhere and I missed it both in Valencia and now in Paris.
Minimum_Rice555@reddit
You know, I've been saying the same about Valencia. It's really not that special as people make it out to be, I personally think it has a very busy energy for being such a "small" city. I find the traffic and the driving style in Valencia probably one of the worst in Spain. For some people, drivers habitually drive through red lights and basically make every single crossing grid-locked due to lack of foresight. (Meaning, if you're in traffic and the lamp goes yellow, don't go forward, you'll just create an obstacle). The driving alone is very India-like, definitely up there with Naples and Sicily. I've never seen this in any other Spanish city, neither Madrid nor Barcelona.
I never thought too much of the local food, paella is nice, but not for every weekend like some locals do.
I think the apartment life wouldn't bother me that much if they were better built - like Germany, with proper insulation (heat and sound). Living in a 1500-2000 rent apartment and hearing your neighbors flush the toilet is a humbling experience.
I think the bottom line is, if you are looking to experience Spain, there are much better and chaper cities to do that. And if you don't want to experience Spain, why even come to the country. (Not directed towards you, just in general). Before people misunderstand what I mean: I don't have a problem with Spain, I have a problem with Valencia, it's very overrated in my opinion. There are so many nicer cities, Zaragoza, Toledo, Gijón, San Sebastián, all much nicer.
Strict-Ride-391@reddit
I loved San Sebastian
inrecovery4911@reddit
You must have stayed in a posh Neubau, because hearing everything from your upstairs or bext door neighbours is definitely a common complaint for many apartment dwellers in Germany, local or not. That's in part why "Quiet Hours" regulating hoover and washing machine use (and anything else loud) exist here.
profdrpoopybutt@reddit
We definitely don't live in a Neubau, but we never hear anything from our neighbours and since nobody has ever complained to us, I presume they also don't hear anything from us (we're more of the night owl persuasion). The heat insulation is amazing, we don't need to turn on the heating even when it's 5 degrees outside.
We live in a big hochparterre apartament with it's own private garden and honestly, it's not that much different from living in a house.
Crominoloog@reddit
Foreigners are in fact, pricing out locals from affordable housing, which is gut-wrenching to see. I personally couldn't be a contributor to that problem.
If you are looking to experience Spain, there are much better and cheaper cities to do.
I mean...
Jo_thumbell@reddit
Do you have any recommendations? I have only ever visited Valencia, Barcelona, Madrid, Malaga, Rota & Grenada. I would love to visit more places but I can’t drive.
Crominoloog@reddit
Foreigners are in fact, pricing out locals from affordable housing, which is gut-wrenching to see. I personally couldn't be a contributor to that problem.
If you are looking to experience Spain, there are much better and cheaper cities to do.
I mean...
Upper_Share1276@reddit
Totally agree with most the points Valencia was a cracking city around 2013 but it has gone rapidly downhill in the last ten years
RDT_WC@reddit
You are not expatriates.
You are immigrants.
TheHeadlands@reddit (OP)
Totally true.
renotory@reddit
Ignore the trolls.
BionicBrainLab@reddit
Valencia has been my dream city to live in so this is sad to read but good to know. I have a friend there who said I would struggle without fluency and having any family there.
anarchypie@reddit
For what it's worth, I've lived in Valencia for 4 years and none of this resonated with my experience (we are also a couple with a young child). It's important to hear everyone's stories, but don't let one experience sway you!
My Spanish is honestly terrible (I'm trying, I promise) and while some things are tough, it's generally been fine. We have integrated well, have mostly Spanish friends, and have felt so overwhelmingly welcomed here. The person I hang out with most frequently is the sweet older woman next door who primarily speaks Valencian but I still share meals with and take afternoon walks with.
I've had 6 countries of residence and have lived in even more places, and Valencia has been the best. I never want to leave - I wake up every day feeling like I live in paradise.
7omr-6@reddit
What neighborhood do you live in? Do you think that makes a difference. OP mentions Russafa, which does not appeal to me.
anarchypie@reddit
We spent about 2 years in Russafa. But it was right after COVID, so quieter than it is now. We now live about 15 minutes outside the city. We absolutely loved both places!
blahzay-blah@reddit
We plan on moving to Valencia in January from the US. Quite disheartening to read the above but I’m starting to feel it’s a world wide issue not specific solely to Spain. Things are increasingly expensive EVERYWHERE. What made you leave the US if you don’t mind answering and what area did you all settle in? Happy to DM if that’s better.
BionicBrainLab@reddit
That’s wonderful to hear. May I ask where your origin country is?
anarchypie@reddit
I'm originally from the US (although I haven't lived there most of my adult life). I genuinely think picking a city is like picking a partner - what works for some people just doesn't work for others! OP's experience is just as valid as mine. We've just really really clicked with Valencia and love every moment we have here.
BionicBrainLab@reddit
Thanks for sharing.
lluluna@reddit
You friend is right.
transocean1c@reddit
Tbh, I am Spanish myself (Alicante, living in London tho) and I have seen that resentment growing.
Housing prices have more than doubled in many areas, and many people are surprised by that.
At least in Alicante, the Ukraine war hasn't helped, as they are one of the biggest groups buying flats now in their beloved Alicante. I think the issue is more evident in Alicante than in Valencia.
But, tbh, I have the opinion that people's resentment is focused wrongly. For example, Spain's planned solution to expenses such as pensions is to introduce many immigrants to the Spanish working market. That means more people in cities.
Housing is an issue in most of the Western world and particularly in Europe. We are also having fewer children and fewer people per household.
Spain has one of the lowest average ratios of salary/housing. That means average housing in Spain is cheaper for the average Spanish salary than in other countries.
Housing is definitely a problem expats should not worry about. The solution is clear: building more flats, improving public transport to those flats and letting society grow.
I am sorry some people feel as part of that issue, while they are actually part of the solution...
But Spanish culture values living in the place where you were born, and moving out is a big deal for most Spaniards. It doesn't work the same way as in Anglo-Saxon societies, where everyone moves a lot, and even housing, oftentimes, is built in ways that aren't expected to last a long time. One consequence is that younger people are not being able to create their life in the place they grew up, and that's a big issue for most.
But I don't think the issue is foreigners (most of the time they are not) buying flats or living in Spain with bigger salaries, and people focusing on that being the issue are not helping build the solution...
homurtu@reddit
Also, expats spending their money locally means the economy for the local bakery gets bigger. I think that the main problem is institutional investment portfolios buying the housing stock everywhere, and locals buying and renting to airbnb. Not a family of expats buying a single home.
transocean1c@reddit
Nah, the highest problem is easier imo. Just too many people for too little flats. Locals get mad at expats (0.001%?) while the solution and demand should go to new flats construction...
gumercindo1959@reddit
Interesting review. Are you headed back to US or are you giving Spain another shot? What drew you to Valencia in the first place?
TheHeadlands@reddit (OP)
We're starting to look at other places in Spain. Valencia was our first choice because we know some people there, and it appealed to us when visiting (which of course is extremely different from living). There is a lot of culture there, and it's big without being too big, both of which were attractors as well.
Charming_Cry3472@reddit
Thank you for sharing. We are also a family in our 40s from the US with 3 young children. We are planning a trip to Spain this summer as a sort of scouting trip. Have you visited other cities in Spain that felt a bit closer to what you all are looking for ? I see you do not with to cone back to the US, so was curious where you plan to go from there.
FrauAmarylis@reddit
Do you now see why locals are leery of putting in effort to form a relationship with you, since most expats are so transient?
I even had that experience in CA and at jobs with high attrition.
laselma@reddit
You had the immense luck of being born in the USA and want to come to Spain? I don't get it.
Sincerely, a Spaniard.
gumercindo1959@reddit
Nice. We are fluent in Spanish, live on east coast of US (I just became dual Spanish/US citizen) and are looking to make the move down the road. Looking at Andalusia in general but closer to Malaga.
Bloody_Punisher@reddit
No, dont come to Spain, anglo-parasite.
orwelliancat@reddit
What other countries are you thinking of going to?
StarEstrellaLuna@reddit
I think it’s fair to compare Valencia to Los Angeles but also should be done the other way. Los Angeles crime is nothing compared to Valencia. Guns and gangs, alone. I’ve visited Valencia and simply bc the summer weather is too much for me, I’d never live there. I do appreciate honest posts like this though, from your perspective actually having lived there. People visit a place for week and feel like they can say they “lived” there or know a city very well. False!!! You actually lived there so I take your word over mine or anyone else any day!
SolSparrow@reddit
I also found the cons confusing - long train ride to see mountains or green with Valencia is connected to Ave, and from my time in LA it took an hour to get anywhere on nothing but concrete highways.
Also housing- you don’t have to live in the city center. There are suburbs with houses and even gardens. Most Spaniards do prefer an apartment in an urbanización, which is why there are so many. But there are options.
Automatic_Fan_3509@reddit
I think comparing Los Angeles to Valencia is like comparing apples to oranges. The City of Los Angeles is surrounded by smaller cities and has approximately 3.879 million residents v. Valencia only has 824K residents. Spain is relatively a safe country, but that said, Los Angeles has surrounding cities such as San Marino, South Pasadena which have low crime.
guiwald1@reddit
Also, I don't understand the "con" being to have to drive to go to a park while in LA you simply cannot walk anywhere
Cool-Mix-3853@reddit
I’m a Spaniard living in Valencia. I really enjoyed your post and I think your point of view is spot on. Honestly, the future in Spain doesn’t look too bright. The government is a big part of the problem; instead of fixing the real issues, they just talk nonsense every day and play games with people, while serious problems like housing keep getting worse. For me, the issue isn’t the people who come from abroad, but the lack of real policies and a plan that could actually make life better here.
You seem like such a lovely family, and I’d love to meet up in Valencia and invite you for a “caña” before you leave. Either way, I wish you all the very best!
Tarnmaster@reddit
OP, thanks for taking the time to write this out. It helped me realize that ya, maybe the grass is always greener elsewhere and then you move there and not so green.
I have been pining to move to Europe from the USA for the last year, now that I am retired, but my wife is not leaving our kids and grand kids. I have been really annoyed with her, but I am going to try and let it go.
ActuaryPure@reddit
Grass is greener! There are some fantastic things about living in Spain that are great, and some things that are not great. I have the same experience having been in Barcelona for six years. But I am moving back to be closer to my aging parents and my daughter - so family is the best reason to be anywhere. I have too many Expat friends here that have missed out on huge, life-changing events, in their families lives, including death, and they have huge regrets. Balance
Green_Mind60@reddit
Maybe just travel with or without her. You only have one life.
Tarnmaster@reddit
O she will travel for a few weeks, but I was thinking years...
onekorama@reddit
The government is a complete disaster, but the public transport is amazing, crime rate is low and NHS works well in general.
I'd like to know your opinion about other governments from places where there is NO public transport, NO NHS and the crime rate is pretty high
Illustrious-Arm-5419@reddit
sounds like the US
ActuaryPure@reddit
I laugh at this because the US is giant. I live in Spain from California and I come from the safest city in the country - It is literally a beautiful bubble. It’s like saying “Europe is a shithole,” and not being specific
MrMKUltra@reddit
I’m in Valencia right now just as a traveler (from LA too!!) it’s not hitting for us. Barcelona was a bit overrated but something about VLC felt just not right.
We got micro aggression-ed checking into our hotel. Noticed really aggressive drivers, people literally chucking cigs into the street, and underwhelming night life (posted hours not being accurate). A beautiful daytime city, but that’s where it stops. Glad we only have 3 nights here
AguilaBicefala@reddit
In Spain, you are an inmigrant
TheHeadlands@reddit (OP)
100%, yes.
thebeesknees210@reddit
Hard not to see the irony of this post coming from someone from LA. Hollywood Blvd was covered in human feces last time I went, the traffic and driving was horrendous, and the city was filthy and reeked of synthetic weed everywhere.
It seems like you’re comparing Valencia to some non-existent fantasy city. What city doesn’t have mostly apartments in the center? What city has natural beauty in the center that you don’t need to drive to? Maybe you should have done some research before moving to Spain if you felt uncomfortable being part of the housing problem. After all It’s only been all over the news for the last 5 years that Spanish people are being pushed out of the center centers because of expats.
To anyone reading this post looking for actual information, take it with an enormous grain of salt. It sounds like a spoiled out of touch LA family couldn’t afford the luxury apartment in the center of Valencia at the price they were expecting, couldn’t make friends and now is bashing the city in a hugely slanted but obvious attempt at making it sound neutral. “Crime could get worse” wow very objective account of your experience in Valencia. The youth unemployment sounds like it really affected your experience here. You’re clearly digging here so something must have made you butt hurt but it has nothing to do with Valencia or Spain.
Honest account from a non spoiled American living here: - Yes it’s dirty but not dirtier than most Americans or European cities. Only country where i’ve lived with cleaner cities was the UK - Food is much better and more varied than any medium sized city i’ve been to in America. Plenty of great non Spanish options and much cheaper than in America. Plus Spanish food has so much more to offer than just paella - You can easily get a house with a pool 15 minutes from downtown Valencia for way cheaper than LA or any American city if you don’t like apartment living - You can drive under an hour for great hiking and nature or drive under an hour south for incredible beaches - People are incredibly friendly especially if you’re not someone as out of touch as OP and looks at their city like it’s a 3rd world country because they can’t get all the conveniences they’re used to in LA - The city center is beautiful and has one of the most beautiful old towns in Europe. Outer city center not so much but then again look at NYC outer boroughs or most big cites to compare
The most important thing to remember is that no city is perfect, least of all LA, but Valencia is a beautiful city with tons going for it. It’s not the size of LA or even Madrid so don’t expect the same culinary scene but most expats I know here rave about it and I’d rather live here than any American city. Taxes are the same as LA or NYC for the top tax band so it’s really a moot point, especially given how much you get for your taxes here in terms of free health care, free schooling, extended maternity/paternity leave, functioning infrastructure to name a few things we don’t get in the US.
Ps I’m married to a Valencian woman and she insisted on moving from London, didn’t come here to take advantage of the cost of living but happy and grateful to be here!
TheHeadlands@reddit (OP)
Lots of truly wrong assumptions here about me(as expected on Reddit/the internet/not talking in person)... I won't engage with those because, again, it's Reddit. But hey, your own perspective on Valencia is yours to have, too, and you're welcome to it, as am I. I was careful to mention the good, and also very clearly stated that it's my opinion--it's up to you how you want to handle that.
FYI I hate L.A., always did, but was there for years for career.
fairy_forest@reddit
Please don't take me bad but it seems that you were pretty satisfied living in LA. That makes me wonder: Why did you move to Spain? I guess climate is very similar, city life might be better in LA so what was the motivation?
TheHeadlands@reddit (OP)
Not taken bad at all! We don't like L.A. In fact, I personally NEVER liked it there after 25 years! I'm from San Francisco originally, which I admit makes one quite spoiled. But we can't afford to live there and it's very different from what I grew up there before tech invaded and the arts and culture took a nose dive. But the majority of our move was because of how America is and has become (and even WAY more so since we moved to Valencia).
fairy_forest@reddit
I see. Some cities might be "objectively" good but you might just not feel the vibe. Hope the new place will work better for you
Hamilton4496@reddit
Curious - why not go back to LA or somewhere else in the US?
TheHeadlands@reddit (OP)
We don't like L.A. and we also don't like what America has become (and honestly, always was but has come to a head right now with Trump). We also prefer the overall way of life in a lot of Western Europe.
ConsiderationHot143@reddit
Good to have these insights, thanks. How would single people meet people there if everyone's cooking at home? Blame the banking families for what's happening to economies - it's done by design. They want us all at their mercy.
Moist-Ninja-6338@reddit
You are confusing banking families with government for some reason.
Parading_Panda12@reddit
My husband's work recently hired him to relocate there, we don't speak Spanish (yet) but I can tell you, I've been filled with dread for the past two weeks. I've lost 7+ pounds, and still headed to drop more, because I feel so stressed I don't eat, and if I do eat I stop after a few bites because I might vomit. I'm at a point where it's already crucial to gain weight back, but I think given the circumstances it won't happen..
But there's no job openings here because of Tarrifs, and this one is with a company who knows him well, and wants his specific high level skill set over there.. It sucks, because I want out of it. Recently I'm just kinda floating through the days, while going through the motions. I'm not happy or bubbly like I use to feel, I feel empty. I don't expect to be happy there either.
I don't want to go, and sure as hell hate the idea of my kids being dragged into it. Digging through options, I have noticed we are all running out of choices world wide, because every country is run by some d** with plans that screw everyone over. No one has the options they wish they had.. One thing they've done well globally, is keeping everyone fighting with each other while we are all going through the same exact situations.
Curiousone_78@reddit
Well, don't come back to the U.S. this place is imploding under our new Pedophile President and the Guardians Of Pedophiles (GOP).
Tariffs have increased everything, people including Americans ripped off the streets because they have black or brown skin and sent to a Florida concentration camp, shootings daily. Non-affordable housing and zero jobs available.
I would definitely stay in Europe somewhere at least for the foreseeable future. Good luck.
yunhua@reddit
Not the point of your post, but I'll be visiting Valencia with my 1.5 y.o. Which playgrounds or parks would you recommend for this age group? We're planning to take public transit only during this trip.
ganjamyke@reddit
It's incredible how similiar Spain's problems are to Italy's problems ( mainly in the north of Italy ). I think the only thing we don't have in common is high-skilled immigrant workers. Sometimes we see someone who retire in Italy but it rarely happens in big cities like milan, rome..
JackStraw310@reddit
Great assessment. Wonderful history and nice people but it is definitely apartment living. Dreary, dirty streets, lots of smoke. Paella is great but not that often. The tapas I remember loving when I was young get old. I don’t think the beaches are that nice either.
AbbreviationsOk9634@reddit
Third world city? So stupid comment Much better LA with high crime rates, thousand of homeless all around and vert dirty. You don't deserve to stay here, we don't need so unrespectful people
Short_Possibility_39@reddit
As a foreigner I have been living in Murcia for the past 2 years. I can definitely resonate to many of your points. Mostly the dirtiness and resentment deeply rooted in the system. Dog shit everywhere, smoking and cigarettes eveywhere, dirty/old/insecure buildings/infrastructure, lots of homelessness, and deep biterness in public service workers. I have been very shocked to be frank with you. Spain is far from paradise.
grapedog@reddit
My job just moved me out of Spain after living there for a little over two years....
I loved Spain so much that i'm going to retire there. Sadly, I'll probably end up being one of those expats that drives up prices. But I'll be out in the country somewhere in southern spain and not near any major cities. The town/city I lived in had around 30k population, and that suited me just fine. Small town, a nice beach...
Top-Half7224@reddit
Don't beat yourself up. These governments are pushing immigration because they are suffering with an aging population. Every single damn country in the western world is pushing this "blame the foreigner" narrative as a distraction from who is really responsible. Countries like Spain and Portugal have incredible amounts of foreign capital coming into their countries, more than enough to build more affordable housing and reduce taxes for the working people. But instead it gets funneled up to the asset owning class and developers are given a huge amount of control of the market by trickling high end housing into the market to keep demand high and make more money for themselves.
My Portuguese landlord certainly isn't complaining about the high rent I am paying.
National_Recipe4257@reddit
You say healthcare is great, crime is nonexistent, and life is generally peaceful, yet it's "third-world."
Ok, mate.
Loud-Owl2071@reddit
Muy interesante tu experiencia en Valencia. Una de las cosas que yo hecho en falta son zonas verdes, no solo en ciudad o extra radio, también zonas de montaña. La Comunidad Valenciana es un auténtico desierto.
Me ha llamado mucho la atención la variedad gastronómica. Si Valencia tuviera la escena gastronómica que te gusta, ¿cómo sería?
Un saludo!
ComplexTeaBall@reddit
Where are you looking next?
TheHeadlands@reddit (OP)
Not sure, looking around!
Ok-Championship5754@reddit
Cadiz...
Cojemos@reddit
Portugal will be no different. Although more natue. Don't be fooled again.
xeiRedRock@reddit
Tanqueu al eixir, ale a fer la mà.
Lower_Possible8484@reddit
Going back to US?
TheHeadlands@reddit (OP)
We can't stomach right now it with what's going on there. We'll see, I guess.
Bloody_Punisher@reddit
Donde sea pero FUERA DE ESPAÑA, cerdo parásito.
BowtiedGypsy@reddit
We spent the last few years “touring” around Europe (spending at least a month in loads of different cities), and can honestly say I think a lot of the issues you ran into are definitely across most of Europe, not just Valencia.
I’m from Boston, so the food situation always gets me. It’s always great for a month or two, and then your like “alright yes this Napoli pizza is fantastic and fresh, but I want literally any other style of pizza now and I can’t find it.” Literally by the end of Italy we were like alright we’re done with Italian food we gotta leave here.
But this has been a thing everywhere, even across a lot of LatAm, Eastern Europe and Northern Africa. 0 places come anywhere close to as diverse as America is, and with that diversity comes an incredible food scene.
We don’t speak anything but English (we can get by with Spanish for living day to day, but we can’t conversate at all really), so getting in the “inner circles” is practically impossible. Your always an outsider, even if the people are nice. Even when people speak English or whatever, it’s very difficult to make real genuine close friends as an expat.
Have also been surprised by how dirty many cities are outside of the touristy areas. And not to bring Italy up again, but what in the world are people doing over there?? How do you even have that much trash and grafiti out in the streets?
The smoking and throwing butts, definitely a thing all over Europe in my experience. Dog poop thing seems to be a flip of the coin, but definitely not uncommon due to the lack of green spaces/grass/trees.
Living situation, it’s apartment life style in every major European city, exactly as you explained - and almost any big Western European city just feels ridiculously priced for what you get.
The whole anti tourism thing is definitely all over Europe, so if your really sitting there feeling bad about how you and other expats are impacting locals day to day life economically, you need to leave Europe completely for the most part. In reality, the entire world is going through a housing crisis, rising inflation, and poor economies right now, and they just want someone to blame it on, so I don’t think you should put much importance on this. No matter where you go, outside of directly home to where you grew up, your an outsider making the area more expensive by increasing demand. It’s just a fact. It doesn’t matter if your in Nashville, Madrid or Istanbul, it has the same effect.
Where are you thinking of heading next?
TheHeadlands@reddit (OP)
Thank you, great response, and I agree with everything you wrote.
We don't know where right now, possibly looking elsewhere in Spain. Speaking Spanish has helped a lot and we don't want to move somewhere where we don't speak the language at all or would have to learn it from scratch, which of course narrows it down a lot.
Bloody_Punisher@reddit
Vete a tu puto país a llamar ''tercermundista'' a otros sitios, asqueroso engendro redneck de 60 de CI y 150 kg producto del incesto.
BowtiedGypsy@reddit
Let me ask you, and I don’t mean to pry but asking because we’re sort of in the same situation (or likely will be soon I should say) - with all the “negatives” you pointed out, and being aware it’s pretty much like that all over Europe, how are you thinking of the next move?
Maybe a smaller city?
TheHeadlands@reddit (OP)
Ask away! It's a tough question to answer. I think a smaller city might be the next thing to look at. We haven't been to Seville yet, would be interested to see. "Florida retirement" is def not what we want, though, hahaha. That's the issue with some of the smaller towns. There's no perfect answer, I guess, just what place has more pros than cons to the individual. It's a weird world out there.
Bloody_Punisher@reddit
Vete a tu puto país, parásito miserable.
Inevitable_Rock_3236@reddit
I really don’t recommend Seville, I think there are a lot of the same issues as Valencia (some even worse like unemployment) as well as scorching hot weather may through October
StarEstrellaLuna@reddit
I hated Seville. Something about the place definitely lacked something compared to the rest of Spain. And I am a Spain lover and have traveled well.
Cojemos@reddit
Seville is Valencia part 2 for you. It has more charm but you won't be a tourist. Maybe Huelva area closer to the Portuguese border.
BowtiedGypsy@reddit
It certainly is haha. Keep in mind that we’re mid 20s, so Florida retirement vibes definitely might be a bit of an exaggeration for someone a bit older with a kid.
Also kind of random, but have you checked out Buenos Aires? Think it would check a lot of your boxes, a lot more good food options than most of the smaller European cities, bit more green if your in the right area and generally cheaper. Patagonia and Iguazú Falls arnt day trip close, flight away, but not too bad and some of the most breathtaking nature you can get. There was also incredible family vibes in Palermo SoHo, if we move anywhere after having a kid, it would definitely be tops on the list (except the distance from the US and Europe kind of stinks).
Crominoloog@reddit
Good grace, Americans in Europe are a special breed
BowtiedGypsy@reddit
Your not wrong haha. Assuming your European, what are your brutally honest opinions on this conversation?
ProfessionalLake9053@reddit
Ahh the classic superiority complex I’ve noticed living in Spain in France
BowtiedGypsy@reddit
From who?
Roaming_Burrito_@reddit
A very interesting read indeed! I'm also in LA with a newborn and fantasize about retiring early in Valencia often, so this post really resonated with me. I'm curious what people's thoughts are on other retirement destinations that are highly expat friendly. I knew a British guy who moved to Cambodia a decade ago and stayed. Seems very expat friendly in the capital from what I can tell from his social media. Other places like Malaysia or elsewhere in Southeast Asia seem like a possibility too (friendly people, lots of expats, cheap, etc).
Ultimately us expats will always be foreigners, no matter where you live, so I think you just have to find your tribe wherever you end up. I've lived in Australia, Ireland, US for a decade + in each place and after a while, no-where truly feels like home (reverse culture shock is real). I was looking at Andorra recently too for those of us skiers/hikers/mtbikers (taxes are super low too).
Pecncorn1@reddit
I happened to be living there and took a job working a 28 on 28 off in West Africa, I ended up staying there 8 years. It's really easy to get a visa but it's what you make of it. There's lots of immigrants/expats but in all the time I was there I didn't make a single local male friend that I didn't have to keep at an arms length.
I've been in Vietnam five years now and have several really really close friends...My Vietnamese still sucks so it's all in English. I love it here.
I'm a fluent Spanish speaker and have lived 13 years in Spanish speaking countries, Colombia being one. My only experience in Spain was visiting a friend from Madrid for a month, It seemed like Colombia without the cocaine too me. I don't partake but culturally they appear really similar to me which shouldn't really be a surprise I suppose.
Bloody_Punisher@reddit
''Spain are like Colombia without the cocaine'' WTF? why all this sub human 60 IQ rednecks are absolutely stupid and retardeds? maybe the incest?
TheBlueFence@reddit
I moved from Los Angeles to Valencia and I agree with this. I don’t like how there isn’t any nature around the city and the food is horrible as a veggie here.
Bloody_Punisher@reddit
LOL Los Angeles have more nature and better food than Valencia, right? why all this sub human 60 IQ rednecks are absolutely stupid and retardeds? maybe the incest?
Moist-Ninja-6338@reddit
Your experience is what you experienced and your preferences are your preferences. Obviously there is no right or wrong. I have been an immigrant in 2 (one Spanish speaking) countries and an expat in 1 another and have seen many “expats” who only last a few years and then move on or go back home. Once the honeymoon phase is over after two years real life kicked in. I found that being married to a local has made a huge difference in the assimilation process. We have locals over all the time and my Spanish is at a level where I enjoy these get togethers very much and my Spanish is improving daily. I love visiting España but personally avoided moving there for some of the issues you mentioned such as taxes and living in a departmento. However the comment about Valencia being at times 3rd world seems very strong and the comment about food is incredibly subjective (I find the US challenging for good food unless it is foreign). I doubt any one considering moving to España or anywhere else will take your post seriously but I think your assessment is very good.
TheHeadlands@reddit (OP)
Agreed, yes, just like I wrote. They're our opinions, and we've met a good amount of people who agree with most of them, as well as plenty who don't.
Bloody_Punisher@reddit
LOL this anglo sub human are absolutely stupid, ridiculous and retarded, like a good redneck product of the incest living in his own fantasy reallity.
Understand, 160kg sub human, your disgusting country is a big pile os scum/shit, a 3rd world country without NOTHING, a scumhole with just some rich neiborhoods. 3er world people, 3rd world infrastructure, 3rd world public services, dirty and old (just look your metro, god) like a 3rd world country.
You really talk bad about the spanish gastronomy? LOL you say ''Spain is dirty''? LOL ''expat''? you are just a parasite inmigrant.
Goodbye, thanks, see you never.
Moist-Ninja-6338@reddit
I think the underlying message is correct however and I would agree. I don't think there is much to disagree on that part.
Bloody_Punisher@reddit
LOL this anglo sub human are absolutely stupid, ridiculous and retarded, like a good redneck product of the incest living in his own fantasy reallity.
Understand, 160kg sub human, your disgusting country is a big pile os scum/shit, a 3rd world country without NOTHING, a scumhole with just some rich neiborhoods. 3er world people, 3rd world infrastructure, 3rd world public services, dirty and old (just look your metro, god) like a 3rd world country.
You really talk bad about the spanish gastronomy? LOL you say ''Spain is dirty''? LOL ''expat''? you are just a parasite inmigrant.
Goodbye, thanks, see you never.
BerryOk1477@reddit
Spain is certainly flooded with snowbirds and expats driving prices up.
But otoh all these people do pay Spanish taxes and consume. Quite likely on a high level. That certainly helps the Spanish economy too.
Nekoshido@reddit
Nope, no Spanish taxes:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beckham_law
BerryOk1477@reddit
Interesting.
In summary from perplexity
Foreigners spending more than 183 days in Spain are typically tax residents and pay Spanish taxes on global income.
Even if less than 183 days, having the main economic interests or family in Spain can establish tax residency.
Non-residents pay tax only on Spanish income.
Therefore, a foreigner living and meeting residency criteria in Spain generally must pay Spanish taxes following these rules
Why should any retired person live and pay taxes in Germany, when around the corner in sunny Spain a tax Free heaven is waiting.
Nekoshido@reddit
You came to Spain, you’ve got Spain. Stay until your Beckham Law expires, then leave, do your daughter a favor. We have one of the highest youth unemployment rates in Europe, and we were excluded from the latest PISA report for falsifying the results.
echan00@reddit
thanks for sharing. Wonderful post
cinziacinzia@reddit
We scouted Valencia in the spring and our experience completely aligned with your feedback. It helped that property owner at the Booking.com property scammed us out of $700 for a "beach property" that wasn't on the beach. Unfinished bathroom, no grout in floors or walls. We then stayed in Ruzafa and were so confused about what the hype was about...the cafes during the day were lovely. But at night, people seemed to become total a-holes. We went to Chicken Stop for dinner for my extreme picky eater (sensory processing disorder son) and they put ketchup on my son's burger despite my emphasizing not to when I ordered. We waited over 45 minutes and they got it wrong. When I asked him to make it again (I wasn't upset or anything), he goes "HE'S A KID. WIPE IT OFF!" Then he literally started throwing dishes and plates in the back. It was terrible. I later learned Valencians are not known for their hospitality and that tracked for us.
The disillusionment in that city was brutal but was for the best. We don't belong there and are okay with that.
OfSightAndSound@reddit
There really is dog shit all over the place. It was sort of unbelievable the sheer amount. It was all I could think of when it was raining and people were wearing sandals stepping in puddles.. bleh.
tomorrowland_fk@reddit
Thanks for sharing your experience. I’ve been in Valencia for a while and can relate to some of the points you mentioned, it’s definitely a city that works for some people and not for others.
Roaming_Burrito_@reddit
Are there one or two major things you'd highlight as tipping the scale in favor of staying in your experience?
OutsiderEverywhere@reddit
Finally someone speaking my mind. I read all the amazing things about Valencia and booked a trip to stay for three months, it was my least fav city in the whole Europe, for real! I almost gave up on living in Spain, then I did a road trip, almost everywhere else is better than Valencia. I love living in Spain, just not Valencia.
Historical-Bus-1550@reddit
Have you considered France? France in general is open to friendly American immigrants, the tax treaty is favorable, I personally think our region is beautiful with access to great nature. I live in Carcassonne and the small town vibes are refreshing compared to American cities.
tharros_group@reddit
Unfortunate to hear it did not meet your expectations.
SeanBourne@reddit
As an American who loves Spain (but knows that living there would not really be a fit for me), this is super insightful. Really appreciate you sharing this!
ndtconsult@reddit
Are you considering other parts of Spain for your next move? In the North maybe?
shichiju@reddit
Thanks for your detailed and honest appraisal.
szayl@reddit
Fins després!
yoshimipinkrobot@reddit
Like most of the US, the European countries are all pretty NIMBY on building new housing upwards. They settled at a higher density than the US, which kept prices lower for a while, but now demand is too high. At the end of the day, you have to trade off the housing built for the people long ago or the people that exist today. And afaik every single European city picks the past. (or withdraw from the EU and stop freedom of movement)
This is basically the same as the US (but different than Japan, where they always can build their way out of a housing crunch. Japan is the same as Spain in the lack of ability to create high paying jobs, though)
Broutythecat@reddit
Tbh, like in my country (Italy) the Spanish culture is one of cooking at home, not eating out all the time. So that's def a culture thing there.
TheHeadlands@reddit (OP)
For sure, yeah.
notmynicktoday@reddit
Godspeed