Entire IT department axed in one morning, still processing this

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Eli_eve@reddit

seven people laid off, junior dev as it director, no bonus, msp contract. yeah, that place has serious cash flow issues. be glad you’re gone now, otherwise they’d be asking you to work for deferred pay.

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ddod@reddit (OP)

Good point about the cash flow. Makes way more sense now why they cut the whole department at once instead of just downsizing. Dodged a bullet for sure.

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supervernacular@reddit

I’m not sure “be glad you didn’t get deferred pay” is a good take here. Its certainly better than no pay or unemployment pay, and you can still look for another job while sorting your life out.

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RedBoxSquare@reddit

I don't see how there will be no unemployment pay. OP didn't do anything wrong. It's a lay off.

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supervernacular@reddit

I didn’t say there wouldn’t be any, I said deferred pay would be more/better than that.

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RedBoxSquare@reddit

My bad. You're right.

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uzlonewolf@reddit

It's because you will not be seeing much if any of it and will be working for free.

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supervernacular@reddit

Unless they lower the pay as well, the pay should be the same, just come at a later time, that’s what deferred means.

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uzlonewolf@reddit

You cannot get blood from a stone. How are you so convinced that a broke, failed company is suddenly going to have the money in a few months? In situations like these you will almost certainly never see a dime of that "deferred" pay.

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supervernacular@reddit

They can pay for an MSP that’s why

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uzlonewolf@reddit

What makes you think they paid up front? Most MSPs send bills and are paid later, and there's no reason that this company can't simply not pay them either.

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Ssakaa@reddit

That's assuming deferred pay actually ever gets paid before the doors close.

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supervernacular@reddit

That is a given but I’d rather take my chances gett my paid than accept whatever the deal unemployment gives (close to nothing).

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cashew76@reddit

Hiring an MSP, their cash situation is about to lead to bankrupty

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frankentriple@reddit

An MSP doesn't make things any cheaper unless you got some really good guys at the top keeping an eye on things. This place.... doesn't.

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shelledpistachi0s@reddit

They are out of options. The MSP will probably charge them less at the beginning then keep increasing.

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jeo123@reddit

That's when the new director will suddenly get the great idea to bring things in house to save tons of money!

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naturalpasta@reddit

Ah yes, the cycle of life.

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Old-Satisfaction5574@reddit

The circle of outsourcing, you mean. ;)

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oldspiceland@reddit

That’s when the new "IT Director" will be fired for cause to keep the actual mistakes hidden from the ownership.

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denzien@reddit

I've seen this movie

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zeduki@reddit

I worked at a MSP. One day a different one then the one I use to work for offered services. Told them what I use to do and they just never called back. Lol

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RandomDamage@reddit

It's going to be their own fault, too. Hire MSP on the cheapest plan, then 3 months later "oh, another thing". MSP not being stupid adds that to their bill, repeat until they *wish* they still had IT staff

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josephowens42@reddit

What do you mean probably?

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United_Manager_7341@reddit

💯 on point

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PurpleCableNetworker@reddit

An MSP makes sense for a small company where they can also keep expenses with the MSP down. They are screwed. That MSP probably told them “we can replace your entire department for half the cost!” But that factors in like 5 tickets a month, at about 30 minutes a ticket. Go beyond that and they will get cost screwed very quickly. Things will take longer to fix since no one at the MSP knows the network, and now that will turn into more and more hours. That doesn’t include the OS updates that will need done at some point…. “Oh you need sever rebuilds? Thats an extra $5K - $10K for basic servers. Need to move DC’s that are heavily integrated? Just leave the check blank and we’ll take care of the rest.” “Oh you got hacked? Let’s introduce you to our special ransomeware recovery package - starting at ‘just give us all the money now’, followed by low monthly payments of ‘your first born’ for just 5 years…” It’s a blessing in disguise. It will get better. Just brush of the resume, and collect the unemployment for now while looking for another gig.

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PatReady@reddit

Hey, I think you are selling Kyle just a little short.

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ScannerBrightly@reddit

Or unless you just let problems stay problems. That is also 'cheap'.

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Eli_eve@reddit

Yep. They’ve dug themselves into a hole and are attempting to get out by filling it with water. They will simply drown.

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Scurro@reddit

But...that worked in the water temple.

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Tasty_Switch_4920@reddit

![gif](giphy|NVBR6cLvUjV9C)

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SwimmingSwim3822@reddit

I assume this is OP jamming to his usual playlist

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dathar@reddit

That Kyle fella forgot to unequip his iron boots

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RuncibleBatleth@reddit

They don't have Zora Tunics.

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networkhound@reddit

Likely the lowest bidder too. Junior dev is in a world of hurt as they likely don’t even know what a “stack” is, much less have one.

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The-Jesus_Christ@reddit

Yes but in 2 years time the new CIO will bring all the IT back internally and then claim they have now saved the business money!

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MairusuPawa@reddit

I've always loved the "we saved so much money by making people leave" followed by the "we need external consultancy" approach of running a business. Clearly shows how clever the decision-makers are.

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rskurat@reddit

they'll be clever enough to bail as soon as things start heading south

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Maro1947@reddit

The old MBA Two-step

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Fritzo2162@reddit

Not necessarily. Modern MSPs are consolidated talent pools. You can get 10 skilled engineers for the price of one, and they tend to enforce standards and structure. A lot of internal IT tends to stagnate due to getting comfortable, lack of motivation, cults of personality, etc. So there can be advantages to switching to an MSP. Not telling your staff you’re going that way is absolutely shitty.

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BarracudaDefiant4702@reddit

So true... MSP try to show how much money they will save, but that's rarely defined right, especially when the majority of the IT isn't involved. They don't know what they don't know...

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ddod@reddit (OP)

Exactly this. MSP probably quoted based on our documentation and current setup, but half our tribal knowledge just walked out the door with us. Good luck explaining to them why server XYZ needs those weird custom scripts to run properly. They're about to find out real quick what "institutional knowledge" actually costs.

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Slippy_27@reddit

You guys should all get in a group chat and get your “This is the hourly consulting fee” spiel worked out. They will be calling at some point and will go down the line trying to find the “nice guy”.

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Expensive-Surround33@reddit

My rate is 180-250 hr. I rarely get calls but those fuckers would text “hey real quick” what was the fix for this? No environment is overly complex but it can take forever sometimes to figure out the issues if you go in blind. Heck I am troubleshooting a fiber ptp that I ran out of resources to figure out. I finally narrowed it down the configs between the RAD and Ciscos. I built the dam thing 5 years ago and I still couldn’t figure the fucking thing out. Finally got the approval for trenching fiber to this building though. ISP PTPs are just a waste of freaking money.

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rskurat@reddit

definitely, the first call will come in at about six weeks

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Jimmynobhead@reddit

This guy knows.

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thomasbeagle@reddit

Be the first to apply for a job at that MSP. They need your knowledge but they sure don't need all of you. And it'd be kind of fun to walk in there next week with a different company shirt on (metaphorically speaking).

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Silence_1999@reddit

Msp angle…. Oh let’s get a scope of work going to replace this server. Err btw this needs to be changed. Guess what this is compatible we need to forklift this system. Trust us. We know what we are doing. Vendor lock in. It’s been driving the industry since the dawn of computing. Call it what you will but it’s just the same thing framed differently. Either you have solid in house control. Or you get raped somehow or other by this company. Then another. And another. Till the worm turns and you rebuild internal. Then you do it all again.

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United_Manager_7341@reddit

😂🫡 Someone already beat me to the group chat consultant gig

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josephowens42@reddit

It’s not rarely right, it’s always the case!

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curmudg30n@reddit

Meanwhile the sales rep is spending this bonus in the Caribbean.

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LokeCanada@reddit

Every MSP I have worked with stay with how much money they will save you and as soon as their foot was in the door went into sales mode trying to sell you systems for more money.

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Digital-Dinosaur@reddit

I work in consultancy Incident Response. I love MSPs. They generate most of my work!

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Quick_Movie_5758@reddit

Yep, uncontrolled chaos and complete incompetency coming out of MSSP's like it's been shot out of a tee shirt cannon.

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SammyGreen@reddit

I used to work at an MSP. One of our customers got breached because due to voice call MFA prompt bombing. The user went to a colleague to report it. My colleague then proceeded to approve the prompt

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foreverinane@reddit

This is a hilarious thing to learn about, like instead of oh no you got ransomwared the oh no consultants wrecked the company oops.

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likwitsnake@reddit

[Infosys](https://i.imgur.com/vQSQGFd.jpeg) like

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Ron-Swanson-Mustache@reddit

Indeed. MSP is the cost of in house support + margin for a different company. If you've got at least an 8 man team then it's going to cost more unless they're ok with the absolute worst SLA imaginable.

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SAugsburger@reddit

This. Unless they're willing to accept a dramatic reduction of services their costs likely will go up.

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networkhound@reddit

And it was most likely the lowest bidder.

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Purple-Fisherman-920@reddit

This sounds exactly what my company did. I got promoted to sr sysadmin, but I’m running the fucking department for less pay and they waste 22k a month on a worthless MSP. Just waiting to break this contract and hopefully make more money.

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beaucoup_dinky_dau@reddit

is this Kyle?

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Lost_Expreszion@reddit

Yup, OP lost his job either way. Place is going down.

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anomalous_cowherd@reddit

At least this way OP doesn't get stuck with a few months unpaid salary as well.

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Ron-Swanson-Mustache@reddit

They'll ask you to admin for exposure.

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phoenix823@reddit

Yep. You're out the door with 6-12 months more notice than everyone left.

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Lost_Expreszion@reddit

Yup, OP lost his job either way. Place is going down.

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Tall-Geologist-1452@reddit

ya, had this happen to me .... The company lasted another year and is out of business.. The HR person who laid me off with contempt asked me for a reference to the company I landed at.. I laughed my ass off then hung up on her...

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jfernandezr76@reddit

There are people out there with such huge balls...

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jfernandezr76@reddit

Your friend Kyle has the new IT director position although only in name. He'll be a full time help desk while the MSP do the real IT things.

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merlyndavis@reddit

You overestimate the skills of the MSP.

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tactical_waifu_sim@reddit

Do they have that bad a rep? I've worked with a few over the years and they are usually pretty knowledgeable people. It's be hard not to be when you've seen as much as they have. Maybe I've just been lucky though.

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Optimaximal@reddit

MSPs are perfectly useful if they've got decades of experience working with the company with software and hardware they deployed. In this situation, *initially* they're going to be functionally useless if they're parachuted into manage someone else's work, especially if it wasn't documented and was running on retained/institutional knowledge. They're going to be rinsing the company on ad-hoc charges and the actual service will be fairly dreadful until everything is reverse engineered or replaced, at the customer's cost. It's also likely there will be a lot of ad-hoc consultancy with the recently jettisoned staff to plug gaps and acquire stuff like admin passwords and knowledge.

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jfernandezr76@reddit

Absolutely. I left my previous IT Director position some 5 years ago and I had a couple of physical servers for DNS/DHCP/Samba AD, and then we hired a MSP to manage the infrastructure. When we did the handoff, and they said that they will use a Fortinet NGFW, I asked them to then migrate the DNS and DHCP to their fortigate, and then migrate the Samba AD to the three new Synology NAS that we got from other offices. This way they could shut down those two physical servers, as they weren't quite good on Debian Linux. 5 years later those machines are still up and serving.

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da_chicken@reddit

They have a bad rep compared to employees. Employees have a vested interest in fixing problems permanently, and in finding solutions that solve problems in ways that help the business. They're accountable to the company. MSPs are typically paid by the hour or the ticket/case. They're accountable to the service contract, which obligates them to close tickets, not resolve problems. Many of them will not apply permanent solutions, but will instead permit services to fail and generate tickets repeatedly. Tickets mean more money for the MSP. And they mean the company feels more reliant on the MSP, too.

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timbotheny26@reddit

This sub as a whole absolutely despises the vast majority of MSPs and the people who work for them. In my area, there's an MSP that's actually one of the best companies in the area to work for, and they have glowing customer testimonials, so I'm sure they aren't all bad.

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WendoNZ@reddit

Even over in /r/msp they will tell you most of them are functionally useless. They are the poor saps that have to come in afterwards and try and right the ship when the previous MSP failed. There are good ones out there, but wow is that a small percentage.

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timbotheny26@reddit

Oh I'm sure. From everything I've read the actually good ones (as in good to work for and good from a customer/client standpoint) are effectively golden unicorns.

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Jadithslimrivven@reddit

Of course, this varies per MSP. I found the most knowledgeable folks tend to do rollouts and project work, mostly. The kind of one off work they can leverage into more full support contracts. The people that answer the phones have a significant variance in quality.

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BadSausageFactory@reddit

The MSP will forward anything remotely difficult to Kyle and try their best to not come onsite source: three decades of experience on both sides of the MSP fence

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PastPhase5@reddit

Seems like the exact opposite… from my experience.

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genieinabeercan@reddit

There's an overwhelmed tier I MSP tech that's gonna attempt to reassign everything to a tier III when they already have a ton of bullshit to fix. This will prevent anything from getting done in a timely manner, while frustrating Kyle and the powers that be that made this decision. You may have ultimately dodged a bullet. Anyway, enjoy your new job!

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daorbed9@reddit

100% MSP are now mostly help desk idiots with a few guys that have real knowledge. But guess what they are tied up with the biggest customers and rarely break free.

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merlyndavis@reddit

Oh yeah. I wouldn’t e Percy them to do much more than reset passwords and screw up AD.

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tsaico@reddit

Pour one out for Kyle... I hope he finds a new job too

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Alt_2Five@reddit

Hmmm something stinks with Kyle. If I were to guess, he's the kind of "fake it will you make it" kind of guy, but never gets past the faking it and just knows how to business lingo and kiss ass. Pretty sure he just cutthroat his way to the IT Director position and suggesting the company saves money by switching to MSP to streamline blah blah blah. The lesson: Kyle gets to put IT Director on his resume.

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Andrew_Waltfeld@reddit

Hmmm if he's panicking and on the verge of throwing up, then more straight forward answer: He was the cheapest person currently on the IT team payroll. Plain and simple. They can't axe the entire IT department as *they still need someone with IT knowledge.*

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Alt_2Five@reddit

That's OP's analysis not fact. Maybe he was panicking and on the verge of throwing up because he is facing down the team and people he just got axed.

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Andrew_Waltfeld@reddit

Eh, While I would like to be cynical about it, I don't think that is the surefire case. Seen too many companies rapidly downsizing when facing impending financial doom before. Newbies being thrusted into leadership positions they have no right to be simply because they were cheapest on the payroll. It would be a much safer bet to wager the company collapses within 6 months.

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NotThePersona@reddit

Yeah my last action on my way out would have been to tell Kyle to get out ASAP, just find a new job and walk out.

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Intelligent_Ad4448@reddit

Exactly, he’s gonna be the one dealing with that clusterfuck because he’s the lowest paid.

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IlPassera@reddit

That was my first thought too. He's the cheapest tech to keep on. I hope he gets his resume out there and abandons that sinking ship.

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im-just-evan@reddit

The chat GPT generated posts on Reddit are getting worse and worse.

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JustCallMeBigD@reddit

Curious, what gives this away as a Chat GPT fantasy?

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whatsgoodbaby@reddit

It's written like the median of 1,000,000 scraped Reddit posts over 10 years. Who says "jamming to my usual playlist" or "(yeah I'm that guy)" ? No one writes like this

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JustCallMeBigD@reddit

Me? Curious if this is a generational thing now. I'm in the void between Gen X and early-Millenial.

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whatsgoodbaby@reddit

Just casually reading your posts - you don't write like this

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JustCallMeBigD@reddit

I do on other forums when I'm waxing poetic, which I guess I don't do much of here on Reddit. ¯\\\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)\_/¯

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whatsgoodbaby@reddit

So when you are really trying, you also regurgitate the thousands of Reddit posts you've read into bad writing?

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RazoRReeseR@reddit

For me at least, this is the longest post OP has made on reddit in the multiple years their account has been active, and they only have a few comments on the sysadmin subreddit from a few days ago, nothing before that. This post also has the typical setup-tension-resolution of fake reddit posts, and name drops random people (most sysadmin redditors don't namedrop their coworkers) Unless there is outstanding proof of this being legit I am just going to assume it is a fantasy post.

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smallbluetext@reddit

It reads like a planned out story. Like a book. Not the retelling of being fired recently. Just way too much detail for post on reddit.

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JustCallMeBigD@reddit

Thank you. Your analysis is something I can get behind.

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amadeus88@reddit

For me it’s the question prompts. The wildest part? The cherry on top?

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Rude_Strawberry@reddit

You're an IT manager and you can't figure that out?

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JustCallMeBigD@reddit

r/UsernameChecksOut

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Rude_Strawberry@reddit

Allergic to AI are we?

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JustCallMeBigD@reddit

Not at all, use it all the time. However, my style of writing is very similar to this because I don't like to be perceived as an illiterate idiot. I know that's not the norm these days, but certainly does not indicate AI with absolute certainty.

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Rude_Strawberry@reddit

Stuff like "the absolute wildest part?" Or "the cherry on top" or "here's the kicker..." Usually give it away

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whatsgoodbaby@reddit

It's written like the median of 1,000,000 Reddit posts over 10 years. Who says "jamming to my usual playlist" or "(yeah I'm that guy)" ? No one writes like this

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oldmilwaukie@reddit

Good question, not an em dash or checklist with emojis in sight.

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JustCallMeBigD@reddit

As well as natural punctuation and grammar.

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megaheat@reddit

It really makes me question the skill level of people in here. This story has so many holes that makes 0 sense and screams AI rage bait and like 80% of commentators in here ate it up like it's real. Are ya'll working for Clorox service desk?

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dallen@reddit

Half the accounts replying are probably bots too

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exposarts@reddit

It sounds sus. Why would they make some random junior dev be the actual it developer lmao. Need more context.

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applecorc@reddit

Context: company is short on money.

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megaheat@reddit

Doesn't make sense. Kid could just stay at his current positi9n and I'd be the same.

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sabertoot@reddit

I don’t get how people don’t recognize this AI garbage…especially those in IT

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mcdithers@reddit

Please, enlighten the class as to how you know for a fact this is AI. AI created a reddit account 13 years ago? Lemme guess, AI really invented the Internet and it's been slowly destroying human society ever since. Amirite?

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ZHUWrld@reddit

I thought the same lol.

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first_timeSFV@reddit

Were the msp guys Indian?

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first_timeSFV@reddit

Were they indian?

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danstermeister@reddit

Kyle got fucked more than anyone... 2x responsibility and no raise. Now every day will be hell and he'll want to quit, but wont be able to bring himself to it. At least you have your freedom- not on your terms, but you have freedom from them now, in the long run they were doing you a favor in cutting the healthy flesh from the cancer.

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danstermeister@reddit

Name and shame, please.

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FenixVale@reddit

Every part of this post drips as written by AI

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A1batross@reddit

So they pay you guys for these worthless comments? Do you win something if you're right? Cos if not just THINK it and go about your day.

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Unlucky_Business2165@reddit

Nah, I think it needs to be pointed out. It is obviously written by AI and people should be better at spotting it. There are many AI written comments here responding to the AI post. And many regular people are giving advice to OP and whatnot when they should know better. AI slop should be called out.

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techie1980@reddit

yuck, I'm sorry. Suggestion: Keep in touch with your former colleagues. Pass along opportunities, help one another with resumes (and use /r/sysadminresumes ). And provide some social network for the others. Like meeting for breakfast or lunch or something every other Tuesday. It can help with the gutpunch social aspect. > They're also conveniently ignoring the holiday bonus they promised us in December. Red flags! So many red flags. Either way, these people were not trustworthy. And you now know if they come back to you to charge a very high asshole tax because they are not true to their word. As to the MSP/etc - it's a bad situation to be in. I'd cut them some slack - they're stuck in a place where if they clue you in, you will likely act on the information.

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Unlucky_Business2165@reddit

I really think this is an AI comment on a post written by AI

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Johnny-Virgil@reddit

Today is the day ChatGPT got fired.

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Unlucky_Business2165@reddit

This needs to be the top comment. This is obvious ChatGPT nonsense, not that things like this don't happen. Friggin Kyle.

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Dudeposts3030@reddit

lol no bullshit. I still feel bad for Rodriguez though, even if he’s fake. I picture him like a sensitive Spanish man just single-tear mancrying over a meraki

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Johnny-Virgil@reddit

He built it from scratch! With his own two hands. Madre de dios!

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PawnF4@reddit

OPs account is 13 years old with like 800 karma. I don’t think it’s a bot and they clearly don’t farm karma.

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Johnny-Virgil@reddit

Maybe he ran it through for effect? Maybe it’s an abandoned account that just got hacked. Anything is possible.

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shortercrust@reddit

I was out at ‘yeah I’m that guy’

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mercurygreen@reddit

These are the times they call you with a "quick question" in two weeks. "Yeah, no. I'm under an NDA not to talk about companies once I'm no longer working for them." I was at an MSP, and a client terminated our contract abruptly (money-saving attempt as the CIO hired a pair of newbie guys to replace a team of four that had been supporting them for ten years, who were dedicated full-time to them). Then they tried to call me directly. I told them they had to go through my boss. Never heard from them again.

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pdieten@reddit

https://preview.redd.it/670tkhw7ahhf1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ccbbfd30750ce7987e780a179f501ec6b5564b0 Hmmm.

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PawnF4@reddit

It’s a 13 year old account with 800 karma. I dunno those ai detection tools seem pretty inaccurate.

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WWGHIAFTC@reddit

It can happen to anyone, at any time. Sucks, but you'll be OK. You have a new FULL TIME job now: To find a new job.

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witterquick@reddit

Maybe in the US. Here in the UK, our worker's rights are almost as sacrosanct as our healthcare. I can't believe a developed country could allow their workers/citizens to be treated so poorly. Hope OP finds something soon, preferably with a company that values it's most important asset - it's staff

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denzien@reddit

It depends on the company. I had a developer who made 3 check-ins in 3 months, 2 because I *told* him to push his code. Then I had to fix his FE code even though I'm BE. It still took 3 months to get rid of him, which is insane for someone who is doing nothing.

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RndmAvngr@reddit

Goddamn it must be nice to live in a civilized (excuse me civilised) country.

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p00shp00shbebi1234@reddit

Ah you know lots of people are down on the US but you guys have lots going for you too, maybe not as good on employment rights but when I was in the US I always enjoyed the positive spirit, the can-do spirit, people in the UK are often quite nihilist and depressive in comparison. Swings and roundabouts I guess. Sorry about your job OP, honestly sounds like it was a sinking ship anyways, hopefully you can have some luck finding something better :).

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LitPixel@reddit

I’m so sick of the corporate takeover of our country. The same people who preach patriotism to me think this is acceptable.

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woolymammoth256@reddit

Same here in Aus. Where i work It would require consultation with the union before anyone got tapped on the shoulder. Another 6 weeks min before you are out the door and in my case something like 26 weeks of redundancy pay. Plus any unused annual long service leave paid out.

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curtcolt95@reddit

yeah if I got suddenly axed like OP here I'm pretty sure I'd get over a year of severance pay

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timbotheny26@reddit

American here, we really do just suck at everything that matters.

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BeachFuture@reddit

US sucks for this. We are a cost center and entirely replaceable as viewed by the business.

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ddod@reddit (OP)

Yeah you're right, just wild how fast it happened. Already got some leads though so not panicking yet

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WWGHIAFTC@reddit

I didn't mean to downplay it. I've gone through it before. It REALLY sucks when you don't see it coming. You spend a few weeks second guessing a lot of your life's choices leading up to it, or wondering if you're 'good enough' to find a job like that again. Take a few weeks slow and spend time working on your own well being, then get really serious about finding a job.

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alias454@reddit

And file for unemployment as soon as possible

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WWGHIAFTC@reddit

100% yes - do not hesitate at all.

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newbie702@reddit

Thx, pretty sure our department is gonna get axed soon; so this is some good advice for me.

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demonseed-elite@reddit

I had that happen to me about a year ago. Yeah. I have some buddies who are close with the city, the politics and the freemasons (nothing conspiracy related, just guys sitting around enjoying fancy whiskey and talking about everything). They told me my former employer of 19 years were having severe cash flow problems because they decided to get greedy.

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zombieblackbird@reddit

This is precisely how we go about this. The company will learn hard lessons that so many others have in the past and that's neither your problem nor concern. Land a new role and maybe enjoy a double paycheck for a while if it works out.

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Sasataf12@reddit

>HR lady drops the bomb: "Your positions are being eliminated effective today." >That's it. No sugar coating, no "this was a difficult decision," no explanation. To be fair, that's the best way to do it. Delivering bad news is hard, and even harder to receive. So the direct route is the best route. But still, it's a shitty deal. Good luck with your next steps.

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Grrl_geek@reddit

Better than the bullshit "this is always hard to do..." yeah, no crocodile tears over that AH.

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mercurygreen@reddit

I had a job where they had a C-level deliver the news. He talked for 15 minutes and never said that we were being laid off. Someone finally asked point-blank. Ten minutes later, I'm the one who stood up and informed the room that "Yes, we're all being let go."

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paq12x@reddit

If it comes to that, I rather them just send me a text or a voice mail. Save me a drive and an embarrassing walk.

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ms4720@reddit

True pulling a bandaid off doesn't go better by going slower.

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Ok_Size1748@reddit

Who changed all admin passwords? No monitoring/audit alerts when those things happen?

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RunForYourTools@reddit

Yeah, beats me too. How can MSP already have logins ready, and HR with privileges to disable accounts. More, if they were the team managing everything they should be Domain/Enterprise Admins and Global Admins in Azure/Entra. Who created all accesses, higher roles and licenses assigned to the MSP guys? This is very odd, and it's impossible no one suspected. If it's the case then...well...maybe it's the reason of the whole termination.

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ddod@reddit (OP)

Exactly. The whole thing screams poor planning. MSP probably got basic domain accounts but no clue about our custom configs, security policies, or where half the documentation is stored.

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BitBurner@reddit

Been through similar a couple of times. Do NOT help them when they inevitably call. You don’t work there anymore and have no legal obligation to help anymore. Use it as leverage for severance in writing or only do as contract work at a contract rate (mines usually $250hr).

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RunForYourTools@reddit

But who disabled your account(s)? Didn't your monitor changes in critical accounts?

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tsaico@reddit

It could very well have started alarms, but his account was already disabled so no notification came up. Also someone on the team has domain and global and has to create the MSP accounts.

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BloodyIron@reddit

Alerting of such things can be adjusted in such a way that those who would have been previously alerted of such things, aren't. I've been brought in to replace IT staff for... reasons I won't go into... and trust me, loads of ways to fly under the radar (with full legal authorisation of course).

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BoltActionRifleman@reddit

Get out of here with your (what should be) obvious theory, there’s an a criticize the OP bandwagon that’s being jumped on 🤣

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reserved_seating@reddit

Kyle

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dedgecko@reddit

His claim he didn’t know how to change his windows password was all a ruse!!

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random869@reddit

Sounds like no monitoring existed or he didnt have time to check.. He should of at least be alerted that someone gained access to high priv accounts at some point

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peoplepersonmanguy@reddit

This is one where id love to be a fly on the wall to actually see what the work done previously was like.

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Wild_Post_724@reddit

you guys need [stacktracer.io](http://stacktracer.io) \- i document everything for my team

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mj3004@reddit

I’m guessing this story is made up. They told “Kyle” he’s the new IT Director in the same meeting they were letting him go? They saw his reaction?

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BloodyIron@reddit

I've been brought into similar situations, not so much as MSP, but the "replacement" in very... uhh... extreme situations. And trust me, there are ways to have such planned transitions in ways that fly under the radar. Yes, including forensics, and that's your hint.

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Alt_2Five@reddit

It seems pretty clear to me that there is one person who recently asked about changing windows passwords that skyrocketed to the director position. Not sure why this is a big mystery.

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linos100@reddit

Probably his boss knew about the transition. They probably did get severance.

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bluegrassgazer@reddit

No, bud. It was Kyle the whole time.

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robertmachine@reddit

What they do is set up a dev environment all prepared and swap it to production on the day of so and shut down the current prod AD it’s very easy to do.

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RunForYourTools@reddit

Yeah and after that they pick up the pieces with all the mess in Prod, good luck with that, havoc!

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EchoReply79@reddit

![gif](giphy|3LgBXk01ao06B2bjcI)

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bpusef@reddit

This is a fake story likely generated with AI bot assistance

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Rude_Strawberry@reddit

CEO has domain admin

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SAugsburger@reddit

In some small companies I could see that. Unless the CEO is technical or it's only in a break glass safe that could be bad practice. There are many execs that would use an admin account as a daily account and one wrong move causes organization wide damage.

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Same_Recipe2729@reddit

I'm assuming OPs situation is with a small company since they allowed a terminated employee on the property and physical access to devices, even though his credentials were disabled. Never seen any larger company allow that or anything close to it.

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Rude_Strawberry@reddit

Years ago I used to work at a company where finance and the CEO had the keys to the kingdom. That was fun

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SAugsburger@reddit

Especially in really small companies it often happens with egotistical managers and you're one wrong step from chaos of they actually regularly use that admin account. There is a good logic in having a break glass admin account in case your only admins suddenly leave the company or become unavailable (e.g. hit by a truck).

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ErasableInk@reddit

This is a good, and possibly only, reason to use your own work account as a service account.

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My_Legz@reddit

Is there a reason the post has been removed? It looked kind of interesting

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ZOMGURFAT@reddit

I’m sorry to hear about your situation friend. I work for an MSP and I can tell you from experience the last thing most MSP techs want is to take someone’s job away from them. Whenever my company starts working on a new contract I always advocate to keep existing IT and just have us there to handle the crap you guys don’t have time to handle. Again, sorry about your situation man.

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BROMETH3U5@reddit

I'd name and shame tbh.

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ddod@reddit (OP)

Tempting but don't want to burn bridges while we're still fighting for severance pay. Maybe after the dust settles

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BeachFuture@reddit

That no severance sucks. You would think they give you something.

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Malllrat@reddit

Sounds like they can't afford to.

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BloodyIron@reddit

Legal obligations are just that. Depending on their jurisdiction them not being able to "afford" it could be irrelevant. They clearly can "afford" to pay HR and execs...

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5348RR@reddit

How does one fight for severance pay? They already fired you. They have zero incentive to give you anything.

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SpecialistLayer@reddit

Yeah they're not getting severance. That's from much larger companies who basically want to save face when downsizing departments. It does not sound like that's this company.

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SpecialistLayer@reddit

Fighting for severance? You're way past that point, they fired you. If they try contacting you, I would either ignore or not lift a finger without payment up front with whatever you decide to charge for a consulting fee but I would approach that with some massive hesitation considering how they've handled this (or not handled it) so far with you. If it were me, I would block all their numbers and sign up for unemployment and go about your merry way.

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BROMETH3U5@reddit

Fair enough. Keep fighting.

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Eriiiii@reddit

mainly the hired msp lol

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iliketurtlz@reddit

The only reason the MSP isn't talking to the existing IT guys is because the company did not trust them to continue being professional while the MSP took their jobs. The MSP would've much rather gotten an understanding of the environment, documentation, credentials, ect directly from the people managing it if it were their choice.

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Myantra@reddit

Which makes it even shittier. Everyone involved knew they were doing something that would royally piss them off, if it was done to them, then proceeded to do it anyway.

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iliketurtlz@reddit

Not really, it just means the MSP was doing what they were likely asked to do. That's being professional. Why should the MSP self-sabotage when a new client is being onboarded? It would seem either leadership had a legitimate reason for not trusting the IT, which could very well by on the IT. Or it could just be leadership is being overly paranoid for no reason. I'm curious how the MSP got domain admin, and credentials for everything without anyone in the IT department being aware. It'd be really surprising if the leadership team had credentials for everything that the incoming MSP would need.

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BROMETH3U5@reddit

Hell yeah add em to the list.

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im-just-evan@reddit

He won’t because this is a fiction from chat GPT.

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Ramjet_NZ@reddit

How could you tell? What should I be looking for?

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Automatic_Nebula_239@reddit

The fact that it makes no sense to replace an entire IT department with a developer would be a good one. Also the little bits to really fire engagement like "My buddy Rodriguez has been here since 2015. Built half our network from scratch. Just got told to pack his shit and leave by lunch. No severance, no notice, nothing. They're also conveniently ignoring the holiday bonus they promised us in December." I just submitted a prompt "create a fake story for reddit engagement from the perspective of an IT employee who walks into work to find out his entire department has just been fired and replaced by an MSP. Don't use any emdashes or semicolons". Followed it up by asking it to tailor it to r/sysadmin's style and it came out extremely similar. Even got this "They told everyone their services were no longer needed and to turn in their badges before leaving the building. One guy had been there for 18 years. Just gone.

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BlackV@reddit

> "My buddy Rodriguez has been here since 2015. Built half our network from scratch." I did stop and look at this bit

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Hamburgerundcola@reddit

I dont agree with the last part. A lot of people can still be very rational and hide their emotions in such situations. Especially if the company was a shit place to work at anyway, in that case he maybe is just like "well, fits the picture, probably is better like this anyway." If you want to be sure, copy the text and look at the unicode of it. ChatGPT uses different Unicodes for spaces as most softwares do.

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NDaveT@reddit

> The fact that it makes no sense to replace an entire IT department with a developer would be a good one. Employers never make bad decisions that don't make sense?

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Ramjet_NZ@reddit

Appreciate that explanation, I've got that dirty "I've been scammed" feeling - gonna have to tune my bullshit monitors

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TowerOfGoats@reddit

I would say it's obvious and that one look at OP's comment history shows they're clearly a real person, but apparently my standards are too high because everybody else seems to just be thinking "long post = AI" which is stupid. Actual LLM bots are vapid, they use a lot of words to say nothing, they make weird digressions that aren't on topic. ChatGPT overuses em-dashes and loves saying "This isn't just X; it's Y". They hardly ever use non-standard sentence structure like OP does ("Walked into the office. Grabbed my monster.")

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Modus-Tonens@reddit

One issue: Real person != real post. Even before AI, it was quite common for people to make up stories for various subs either for karma, a sense of validation, or just for the attention. Now with genAI, the "barrier to entry" for this kind of behaviour is much lower. Which isn't to say it's *real*, but simply that a real account is very far from proving any individual post is real.

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TowerOfGoats@reddit

That's a fair point. I don't think the post itself is AI generated, but you're right that human account activity doesn't guarantee a human post.

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shiggy__diggy@reddit

There's no em dash ( -- long dash), it's not chatGPT. It's almost impossible to get chatGPT to not put an em dash even when you tell it to.

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Powerful_Wombat@reddit

Shit like this is the new r/NothingEverHappens response

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jeffbell@reddit

And a 13 year Reddit account?

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BROMETH3U5@reddit

Skynet...

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ddod@reddit (OP)

I wish this was fake man, would've saved me a lot of stress this week

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BROMETH3U5@reddit

Gosh dang dead internet.

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jdptechnc@reddit

"ChatGPT."

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aaiceman@reddit

It sucks and also with how litigious companies are, you have to balance the pro's and con's of naming and shaming.

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BROMETH3U5@reddit

Nothing litigious about saying "Microsoft fired my whole team today.". It happens all the time for game devs.

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aaiceman@reddit

Absolutely true! And with larger companies, there is a degree of anonymity. For a team of 7-8, it's probably a smaller company (maybe 1-2k) and more easily identified.

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Optimal_Law_4254@reddit

Speaking of which…. I’ve always wondered why we can’t. Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

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AtTheRogersCup2022@reddit

Agree

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ipych@reddit

Is this real story? Sounds like AI post to me…

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ks724@reddit

Definitely AI

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hirs0009@reddit

What kind of terrible labor laws exist where you are that they don't have to provide severance? I was at Dell for 6 months when they gave me and the entire building notice and I got 4 months severance and and extra few weeks to stay to the end.

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airinato@reddit

Enjoy 2-3x your pay when they call you back to fix the mess.

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Stonewalled9999@reddit

They won’t. They paid 3x the the MSP to FSU but they won’t admit they messed up

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zombieblackbird@reddit

Yes, but now it's like the machine that goes "Ping!" and comes out of a different budget.

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FatherFletch@reddit

I got that reference!

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zombieblackbird@reddit

I miss the days when it was just a skit. I've had my entire department outsourced/rebadged at two different companies in my career. In both cases, me explaining that you can't do more work with more people for less money just by rebadging failed to change anyone's mind. . On the second instance, I quit my job and came back to the parent company in leadership role, then worked to engineer a re-insourcing as my own personal revenge. Then I left to work somewhere smarter.

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Snorgcola@reddit

That means your baby is *still alive*!

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topazsparrow@reddit

Don't forget the bonuses for the reduction in salary costs.

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mangamaster03@reddit

And that's the most expensive machine in the whole department!

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topazsparrow@reddit

"Ugh, the MSP is evil they ripped us off and lied about what they could do! There's nothing we can do about it now, we're just gonna have to pay them" Every time this happens.

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geolchris@reddit

Yeah the MSP is just gonna start from scratch and factored that in accordingly to the minimum service commitment.

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harrywwc@reddit

"minimum service commitment" - and there will be the rub, when the company wants something out side that, there will be 'an extra charge' (and it will be big).

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geolchris@reddit

Oh yeah. 72 months? That's nothing! We don't have to pay benefits or 401k's anymore! Wait. We had a security breach and the MSP wants to charge us $200k to fix?

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ddod@reddit (OP)

Lol honestly hope they do call. My consulting rate just went up after reading about their email server dying

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JBusu@reddit

Make sure you reach out to all the people fired, set a standard rate so you don't undercut each other if they reach out. F*** them go 10 X your standard

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Holiday-Honeydew-384@reddit

Or make consulting team.

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redreinard@reddit

Sell your time in blocks (like 10-40h) at 2-3x what you were paid, and make them pre-pay. Only once the checks fully clear the bank do the work. They told you who they are, believe them.

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pat_trick@reddit

Ooh I didn't consider a payment-up-front policy, good call.

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udum2021@reddit

Most orgs these days have migrated their emails to either o365 or gsuite.

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QuantumRiff@reddit

If I had no notice, and no severance, my rate would be at least 8x my old rate.

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BloodyIron@reddit

The whole being called back is over sold. Sure, it happens, but a lot less often than everyone thinks it does. Trust me, I've exited many trash environments with loads of tribal knowledge and it's never happened.

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WorkLurkerThrowaway@reddit

I know this happens, but I don’t think this happens as much as people on this sub act like it does.

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airinato@reddit

IDK, literally helped a coworker that was fired get hired back at 2x just last month after his replacement bailed when they realized how much they had to take over.

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SAugsburger@reddit

I wouldn't hold my breath any time soon unless there are a lot of niche or worse homegrown applications that provide critical functionality.

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airinato@reddit

You greatly overestimate the abilities of MSPs then.

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tankerkiller125real@reddit

Only 2-3x? My consulting rate for companies that pull this kind of shit is minimum 5x, and if it's knowledge only I have and they absolutely can not get anywhere else 7x

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Hamburgerundcola@reddit

Where I am from, you have 3 months you still work at the company when they let you go. Or they can choose to not let you work, but they still have to pay you in full for those three months.

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apple_tech_admin@reddit

God that must be nice. Meanwhile in the U.S. they can your ass and tell you good luck!

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Hamburgerundcola@reddit

Is it also common practice? Or do most give you notice of a few weeks or a month or two?

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Darkhexical@reddit

A lot of places will see telling the it crew they're fired as dangerous. Who knows what those it people will do when they find out. They might turn on us like we did them

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1991cutlass@reddit

No notice. No severance. Walked out the same day at many places.

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ISniggledABit@reddit

As much as it may burn, the MSP isn’t permitted to tell you about these kinds of changes. Being in IT in general you have to handle on-boarding and off-boarding of staff and we know a day or so in advance (sometimes) of someone leaving. That’s the crappy part of the job.

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Wartz@reddit

Good luck on the job search.

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MightyPelipper@reddit

This happened to me last year. It was a gutting experience and I do not understand how people can be so heartless like that. Wishing you the best.

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blender4life@reddit

What's msp?

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norton_mike@reddit

Managed service provider.

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MermaidxGlitz@reddit

oof. in the same boat. Management is completely incompetent. They’ve made decisions this week that will have consequences they will regret and they are too blind to see it.

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udum2021@reddit

It’s either MSP or offshoring these days. Where I work, there’s only one onsite IT person to handle hardware issues or anything that can’t be resolved remotely, nearly everything else has been offshored. Servers, applications, and email are all hosted in the cloud.

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changework@reddit

Y’all form a little corporation together and publish rates. If anyone from the old company calls any of you, you just ask… “Do you have an account?” “No?” “Here’s how to setup an account.” “No credit extended. Money up front. $600/hr with a 4hr minimum.” “No, I’m sorry Timmy can’t just anger a quick question as he’s more under contract with company GET FKT INC.”

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CyberCrud@reddit

The sabotage from the IT folks would be epic. We all have backdoors, you know? First thing I'd do is change the passwords for everyone, lock everyone out, delete all the backups, remove all the licenses, and take a couple of random ethernet jacks and create a network loop. They'll never figure out the loop issue. Their network will tank and they won't know why. Dumb. Don't screw over IT. We control everything.

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littleneutrino@reddit

Same thing happened to me in February, outsourced all infrastructure jobs to an MSP not warning, no notice. took me 3 months to find a new gig. I had worked there nearly 10 years.

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Assumeweknow@reddit

Don't be surprised if a few of you get recruited by said MSP where they will pick your knowledge of the account. Best advice, find an MSP collectively you all want to work for and create a billable process with them so that if your old company calls you for anything. The billing goes through the new company at 200/hr.

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nighthawke75@reddit

Conflicts of interest. You could turn more coin as an consultant for them than a line animal. Better hours too.

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Assumeweknow@reddit

You can turn more as a consultant, but honestly if they did you that dirty already, why would you want to try and collect blood from a turnip? let someone else do the bloodletting with a full accounting department and legal.

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nighthawke75@reddit

The bills on your table are not getting g paid by sitting there sulking, waiting on nibbles from applications.

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DisastrousAd2335@reddit

Company I worked at prior to my current company got a new V.P. of Technology after 28 years...first 'town hall' after 3 days, 'no one is losing their jobs.. '. A month later, they let go of the entire SAP programming team, except the two lowest paid people, and outsourced it. This was done during another 'town hall' and those being let go did not get the meeting invite. Another month later same shtick with another department. Again Town Hall meeting covered the meetings in HR. Then finally everyon on the server, desktop and helpdesk teams (except the lowest paid peraon) got a meeting called "2018 Year End Goals". I joked, 'should I take my backpack with me to the meeting?' And my team said, ' they wouldn't dare...' Sonovabish, sure enough, 'we are going to separate our future endeavors...' and that was it. I wasn't even allowed to go with security to get my stuff, which was shipped to me via courrier a week later. Everything was outsourced 'off-shore' (we all know what that means!). Why does 'Corporate Math' always point to 'dump I.T, you dont need them, outsource it to India for 3x-4x the cost and it will save money'?! I.T. ALWAYS has the smallest budget in the company! How does this make sense??

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micallefmatthew@reddit

If they’ve laid of 7 workers an MSP is definitely cheaper.

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jvolzer@reddit

Not necessarily. We don't really know anything about the size of this company or what the infrastructure requirements are for their operations.

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ins0mnyteq@reddit

The msp is working on rubber checks

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CanaryObjective3293@reddit

Why did they let you in the building?

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moistpimplee@reddit

take a week or two off enjoy being unemployed. (depending on your situation) but seriously those weeks unemployed are literally the best (and hardest).

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The-Jesus_Christ@reddit

Yep happened to me last week and then my fellow sysadmin was hit on Monday. Found out that they outsourced IT behind our backs and an MSP was up and running it today. I'm sorry you're going through this. The fact that you got no severance has to surely be illegal. Please check in with your state's laws. I'm sure there's a hotline.

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highdiver_2000@reddit

The MSP guys are told not to say anything.

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TeamInfamous1915@reddit

You have to destroy their reputation on LinkedIn. It's the right thing to do.

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Taxpayer2k@reddit

Wow that's savage. You guys are the IT, not some sales position who has access to client data.

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rskurat@reddit

Keep in touch with Kyle, he'll be looking for a job too in about six months

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90Carat@reddit

I'm so sorry that happened to you.

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juicetoon@reddit

Unionise.

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nighthawke75@reddit

Get unemployment started, ASAP. Urge the others to do the same. Appeal all rejections and consult a labor lawyer on this.

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RichardHead411@reddit

What seems like a disaster will likely lead to a new opportunity. I've been outsourced, merged, acquired - each time led to a better opportunity on the other side. I know this sucks, but if you put in the work a year from now you'll be saying what a blessing this was when the company is in Chapter 11.

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pat_trick@reddit

When they call you, be prepared to respond. "I am sorry, I am no longer employed by [company]. Because of potential legal issues I cannot discuss any company related technology or services. I am, however, available to help at a contracted rate of [5x previous salary broken down hourly] billable at a minimum of 8 hours per day of service. Please let me know if I should send over a contract for HR to sign. I look forward to being able to assist you."

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tarlack@reddit

If I am the MSP I would be asking for cash up front for services, or 30 day terms.

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MasterChiefmas@reddit

If they call you with questions, I suggest starting at at least $350/hr with a 2 hour minimum engagement.

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brekfist@reddit

Why so low? They must agrees to pay $10,000 per month in advance for up to 40 hours of work, with no refund or credit if fewer hours are used.

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roboto404@reddit

Sounds like a dodged incoming bullet. Wild.

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rspydir@reddit

Just curious, were you and or your team constantly bringing up issues that required additional capital expenditures for upgrades?

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bluegrassgazer@reddit

No severance? What heartless assholes.

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sliverednuts@reddit

Wish them nothing but absolute HELL. They will be broke soon 😜

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Waretaco@reddit

Jr sysadmin was likely the cheapest one to keep on payroll with what they had hoped had the skills to get by with the MSP. At least you know they're worse off now than ever.

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G0thikk@reddit

Tis the season man. I'm in engineering, and they laid off forty of us across two countries two weeks ago. How did we find out? Work from home day, an email goes out to all employees saying we were doing restructuring. 5 minutes later, some people got emails saying you survived the cut, and the rest of us were notified we did not survive the purge.

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xSchizogenie@reddit

I had better chatGPT stories here.

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Ready-Introduction78@reddit

Kyle was apart of all this happening.

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FelisCantabrigiensis@reddit

It's not much in the circumstances, but ensure you all get paid for every single day actually worked. You should all, by law in most (or all) US states, get a partial month paycheck up to today. It sounds like an awful day. Remember to take some care of yourself, and keep in touch with the good ex-colleagues for mutual support, and good luck finding new jobs.

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JohnGillnitz@reddit

Be ready to charge major consultancy fees when their MSP can't figure anything out, fuck it up, and need help recovering.

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udum2021@reddit

To be honest, many if not most in-house IT folks will face this sooner or later,if they don’t let you go this year, it might happen next year.

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PastPhase5@reddit

If it makes you feel any better, the msp is laughing about it, and they are making fun of what you left behind.

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SallysRocks@reddit

They're going to be calling you asking for help. Don't do it unless they sign you on as a consultant.

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d00ber@reddit

I've had this happen before. Just remember, if a better opportunity arises, take it. You don't owe your boss or a company anything other than the transactional nature of your work for their money. They aren't your friends or your family, they are just coworkers. I used to have this delusional boss who thought we were all family.. blah blah. He was absolutely devastated when this happened to our team because he was naïve. The rest of us were already job searching before the big layoff meeting that afternoon where they go over exit package..etc..etc

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dataslinger@reddit

Would still talk to the dept of labor about that bonus you were promised.

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Jennim5588@reddit

Kyle put a little too much ChatGPT into that resume. Time to shine, pal.

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brianozm@reddit

It’s gonna go downhill even faster now. Lol. Give it a few months before things start falling apart. Will probably end up being a really good thing for you!

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AdObjective6093@reddit

IT sucks. I remember when they actually needed and depended on us. I'm glad I'm retired...

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AzBeerChef@reddit

Businesses still do need and depend on IT. Businesses wont survive without using IT in some shape, way, or form.They just dont respect IT because it has largely became commoditized. I wish I was retired, but I'm just unemployed.

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udum2021@reddit

They need IT as much as they need electricians, plumbers or cleaners. yes IT's necessary, but make no mistake they will replace you as soon as there's a lower-cost alternative.

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EstablishmentTop2610@reddit

Another shining example that all of your sacrifices and long hours don’t matter. Absolutely ridiculous that companies can be like “you have to give x amount of days notice for a PTO payout” but you get no notice about a layoff/RIF.

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homelabids@reddit

Interesting fake story to invent

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NEWREGARD@reddit

Similar story from me as well. I got shoved out after months of stringing me along. Thankfully I switched gears two years ago and started saving 40% or more of my take home pay every period. Right now I’m just coasting until I find the right gig. I’m sorry that happened to your team, and to you. This industry has been kind to me over the last decade+. But it’s becoming increasingly clear to me that these corporate folks have their heads on backwards. I’m rooting for you!

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guitar111@reddit

hey, they fucked themselves...they are about to know the true cost of TCO of an MSP anyways, im sorry for your loss. thanks for letting us know that this will always be a possibility. granted, now prepare for the fact that they might call you later on. either be a consultant or ask for an incredibly high wage if so.

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BooneTumbleweed@reddit

This reads like AI

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Sir-Spork@reddit

Yeh, something seems off in the telling

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BooneTumbleweed@reddit

As soon as I read “yea I’m that guy” the alarm started going off. AI always writes like the cringiest guy on the internet

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foxfire1112@reddit

It really really does

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pinion13@reddit

Good, let them burn and collect your unemployment. The next job will be better anyway man.

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OkBaconBurger@reddit

I hate to chime in with this but…. Same. Whole division outsourced. Everyone let go except for 1/5 of the team who can apply for their old jobs with the new MSP. I’m treading water because I am technically on a different team and contract. Still, even rats know when to leave the ship before it sinks. Godspeed OP.

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critacle@reddit

You damn-well know they asked Kyle, and he told them he could do it. His sickness was probably what guilt is magnified by being near all you.

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Barbarian_818@reddit

Consult with a labor law attorney. Labor laws vary by state or province, but in many areas no notice **and** no severance is illegal unless you are being fired for cause. The usual figure I hear is one week pay for every year worked. If you have to sue, the usual settlement is one years pay.

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State_of_Repair@reddit

Sorry you and the team had to go through that. Hope you live somewhere with worker's protections to help a bit. Wait until they get those MSP bills.. Idk how one puts the final nail into one's own coffin, but that company just did.

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LevarGotMeStoney@reddit

>The cherry on top? As we're walking out, I see the MSP guys already setting up in the server room. These people planned this for weeks and didn't say a goddamn word to any of us. I get that you're upset, and you have every right to be, but maybe not for this. Of course they planned it.

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So-Called_Lunatic@reddit

A wise person once told me that getting fired without cause is often a blessing. Usually when this is the case the culture of the place is getting ready to change for the worse, the people left become miserable and the workplace becomes toxic. It happened to me, and now I work from home making twice as much.

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Hefty-Amoeba5707@reddit

Just make sure they understand if they need outside consultation from you, your rate is officially 10x per hour, paid up front. "Effective Immediately"

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udum2021@reddit

Happened to me years ago in internal IT. its inevitable I am afraid.

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Intrepid_Chard_3535@reddit

Then companies wonder why they get breached. If you treat your ITstaff like shit. Ransomware will happen

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ddod@reddit (OP)

Oh 100%. Their security was already held together with duct tape and prayers. Now they've got an MSP with zero knowledge of our setup handling everything. Recipe for disaster.

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Practical-Alarm1763@reddit

So.... You were holding things together with duct tape and prayers? If the IT Department didn't eliminate the need for duct tape and errors, why pay them when any shitty MSP will do? MSPs are masters of deploying duct tape and prayer configurations. They're cheaper too. In House IT is there to fire proof infrastructure, not put out fires. I hate MSPs with a passion, as I worked for 2 in the past. But if your deploying duct tape, or leaving the duct tape there to rot, then you will compete with MSPs. MSPs are the garbage of garbage, the filthiest of filth, they are rotted shit stains that exist to exclusively deploy duct tape.

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MegaThot2023@reddit

If you're not given the personnel or budget to set up and run things properly, then you just do the best with what you have.

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Practical-Alarm1763@reddit

If set up for failure, you will fail. Only a matter of time. Apply to new jobs, tough it out until you get a new one. If you're not allowed to fix the duct tape, expect to be fired one day and replaced by Craig's list MSP duct tape fortifiers. They nurture duct tape and ensure to put new duct in once the duct tape stops working.

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infinityprime@reddit

I've seen penny penching CFO that run IT and never approve budget to fix the duck tape, i left those places in less than a year.

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Practical-Alarm1763@reddit

Good! I would too. If they set the IT Department to fail, the IT Department will fail. Best to look early before it fails and gets replaced by the rotting MSP Shits

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doubleUsee@reddit

At the same time if the company doesn't staff the IT department sufficiently eventually you're gonna be left with duct tape and a lot of dreams, and you can choose to burn out or accept the tape if they don't budge. Or quit of course.

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Stokehall@reddit

I’m guessing the buy in from executives was not there so the only resource OP had was duct tape.

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ocdtrekkie@reddit

Not assigning blame, but if your existing security was "duct tape and prayers" by your own definition, this is a MSP sales wet dream. They blame you, promise to fix it, and profit.

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Thy_OSRS@reddit

What do you mean by this? Specifically? What things are held together by tape and prayer?

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drzaiusdr@reddit

I'm guessing you don't have a contract or terms of employment. My advice is, get your last paycheck ASAP and don't sign anything that may rope you into getting calls for help from the MSP asking you, 'so you know this system, how did you......'.

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Assumeweknow@reddit

Don't sign anything, and sue them collectively as a group for being underpaid, etc. Do not support anyone or answer any questions afterwards.

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desmond_koh@reddit

Working in-house IT sucks. Go work for the MSP or start your own with the best of the guys who just lost their jobs.

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pleachchapel@reddit

What's the name of the company? If it's public I'd like to take a short position against them now (this is a good thing to keep an eye on if you'd like to make money off of these worthless bags of shit).

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Monkey_Priest@reddit

I was on a 4-person IT team for a property development company when COVID hit. Most of the team, including me, were only there for about 2 years where we had modernized their IT infrastructure. All new Hyper-V Host servers, new VM's, O365, and we got them on Egnyte which meant easy access to the file servers for the various properties. All of this was a big boon going into COVID as the lockdown hit. They were also expanding into new markets so we were working with an MSP who had more national reach. This involved scrapping a ticketing system we were building in order to use theirs. I told my Director, who is a lifelong friend, that we were going to be replaced soon and that I was worried. He assured me it wouldn't happen because leadership assured him it wouldn't happen. We were their Unicorns who saved their IT and they were hoping they wouldn't lose us. Then one morning we get called into a Zoom meeting at 9am, HR joined, and I knew we were being let go. Sure enough, we all got terminated in June of 2020. I got lucky and a few months later was able to rejoin my old company for basically a paycut. Took a while to recover. I will never trust an organization again. Sorry this also happened to you. FWIW, I'm working at a non-profit that is suffering because most of our funding came from USAID which doesn't exist anymore. Massive layoffs and I'm fairly confident I'm next even though I'm running the IT department with the MSP

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Youshou_Rhea@reddit

Sounds like they did you a favor.

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geegol@reddit

I would have deleted any documentation

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foxfire1112@reddit

Ai slop

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RedDidItAndYouKnowIt@reddit

Another reason that IT needs to Unionize. Worker protections don't exist without leverage. Leverage rarely exists for anyone by themselves. We also do not have Nathan Ford and his team to settle things for us.

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SoFrakinHappy@reddit

if they're all gone anyways what leverage would a union have had?

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Khaos1911@reddit

This is why we OE….oh sorry, wrong sub.

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Techguyyyyy@reddit

What type of business is this?

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Fantastic_Sail1881@reddit

Tell them what your consulting rates are in a written email and let them know they start as soon as they call and you require a retainer of 10 or 20 hours to be paid up front and they expire 30 days after contract engagement with 25% credit rollover for left over hours if they renew to the next mont 7 days before the end of the contract.

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anynamesleft@reddit

Of course "two weeks notice" only applies to you, not the employer.

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poja9@reddit

I feel like I've read this before..

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gormami@reddit

Just go ahead and draw up your consulting contract. Hourly rates at least 4X what you were making, all expenses, which includes any mileage (ANY, like from your home to their office included), etc. Make absolutely sure you wipe anything from any device you have, immediately. Email on your phone, anything on a USB stick in your bag, anything, anywhere. And write down when and how you did it. So if they call you for that password on a service they've forgotten, you can say you don't have it, and if they ever get really pissy about it, you can show up with the receipts. You know how this is going to go, protect yourself, plan for the future, and watch it burn.

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captain554@reddit

Their quality of support is likely about to tank, lol. My wife's work swapped from in-house to MSP and bitched the whole time. From tickets being resolved in an hour to tickets being handled once per week. The swapped back to in house after their contract was up.

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a_shootin_star@reddit

And no handover? Damn. They're in for a fun time.

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BasicallyFake@reddit

At least you don't have to train them

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yrpus@reddit

Probably a good thing, but I'm also hearing that nothing was documented, great for job security, but poor process

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Protholl@reddit

If they are on the S&P or other like meter... It's time to make the popcorn and watch the results unfold.

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j0nny6@reddit

Fucking kyle man. What the hell

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QuiteFatty@reddit

Real dick punch. Sorry my man.

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smg8088@reddit

I got laid off in May in a pretty similar fashion. They did give me a decent severance package though which was something I guess. The job market all summer has been horrible though.

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E-werd@reddit

> This place has been going downhill fast. Even faster now. Fuck those guys, good luck OP. My experience in bringing on an MSP to help out has been me doing all the legwork and then supervising them finishing the job--you know, the easy part. They will not make any decisions, they will not make any assumptions, they will not investigate. Any hardware they've recommended and installed has been under-powered and cumbersome to manage, and sometimes misconfigured.

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Sharpshooter188@reddit

Kyle probably got put up as Director because he was cheaper?

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Hamburgerundcola@reddit

Kyle is probably a yes man and the cheapest option. Probably the only guy who is okay with doing helpdesk work whilst being called IT Director.

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SAugsburger@reddit

Definitely possibly the cheapest salary. Whether he knows enough to effectively manage the vendor I'm guessing not.

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Hamburgerundcola@reddit

Bro def knows nothing beside that he will going to be IT Director. I am very young, he is probably young as well. I would try to do this too probably. Even though I know its not a good idea, young people dont think rational sometimes I think.

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National_Way_3344@reddit

Kyle is definitely someone's nephew.

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PandaBonium@reddit

Or hes too young to know hes going to be the scapegoat when things go wrong.

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zzmorg82@reddit

That’s exactly what it is. “Let’s put Kyle in this position so we can say we have an “IT Director” while the MSP gets acclimated and we can say we have one for policy purposes. He can even show them the ropes!” I wouldn’t be surprised if they can him after the MSP gets going.

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WigginIII@reddit

Your employer is not your friend. The ceo is not your friend. Your boss is not your friend. HR is not your friend. They will fire you, without cause, at any point it’s marginally profitable to do so. It is your *obligation* as an employee to provide as little work as possible, with as little time and emotion invested as possible. That’s the only way to maintain a fair play field and relationship.

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spense01@reddit

This is bat-shit insane. Sorry you had to go through that. It’s going to be hilariously painful for everyone at that place when they realize how shitty the MSP is and there is zero help desk support or response to anything in a timely manner. Most MSP SLA’s are a joke and they charge a premium to have direct help desk style support available over the phone. The bean-counters were sold a bunch of nonsense probably under the theme of, “we have all these tools, we’ll automate this and that, and you don’t have to pay for these positions…” When in reality they’re going to definitely do a patch at 8PM one night, not follow up, and the office will be down at 8AM the next day because the MSP nightshift had a task list, did it, and left the cleanup for the next shift….because this is how they operate. I’m dying to know more though, specifically… -what industry? -how many end users? -where? -what company is this. I. Need. Details.

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RndmAvngr@reddit

"This kid asked me last month how to change his Windows password" Fucking oof dude I'm sorry this happened to you. That is absolutely brutal.

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cytranic@reddit

Sucks but whatever you all do, do not retaliate.

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AxeellYoung@reddit

Retaliate meaning cyber crime? I agree Retaliate by seeking legal advice to ensure your rights are protected and honoured? Absolutely do that

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troy2000me@reddit

Lol. If this is America then there is nothing to be done.

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SAugsburger@reddit

You can ask although in the US unless you have some type of union contract they violated or they fired you because of a protected class it would be tough to get your job back. Unless everyone except the guy that got fired were in a protected class it might be tough. Might be worth considering at least playing a quick what is different about the one guy that they kept? Maybe it is simple nepotism and Kyle was friends with a senior manager, but if everybody except Kyle is in a protected class it could be an interesting case to at least ask an employment attorney That being said make sure they don't screw you out their obligations. In some states they have to pay you in full at termination although I have seen cases in larger terminations where they post date the termination a few business days to give accounting more time to cut final checks. Check your state laws because in some cases failing to meet those deadlines can tag the company with fines. Obviously file for unemployment. There is no reason you shouldn't qualify although some petty companies might try to waste your time disputing it.

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AeonZX@reddit

Probably no need. The MSP will probably fuck everything up and they'll be looking to bring back the people who built everything out in the first place, that's when you rake them over the coals with consulting costs.

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FatBook-Air@reddit

I don't even know the MSP but I agree 100%. I'm not saying there aren't good, cost-effective MSPs, but they are rare. Most don't treat it like an internal service; they treat it like a monry-making tree, because for them, that's what it is.

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HandBanana919@reddit

Worked at 2 MSPs and this is 100% correct. The first one absolutely had their shit together but were likely much more expensive than having an internal IT department and had remote and site technicians. Trial by fire type job The 2nd was okay at first but turned into a shitshow after private equity got involved and they tried offshoring everything. They were never great (depended entirely on who picked up tickets), lots of closing tickets just for numbers without any real resolution. #2 is likely a lot more common where they want phone calls answered and tickets closed/escalated internally as fast as possible. At first they'll offer tons of services and seem to care, but you're dealing with the onboarding team at that point. After the contact is signed, you're just another client in the already overflowing bucket and lucky to talk to the same tech twice

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urbanhawk1@reddit

Of course not. You wait for things to break and then charge several times the normal rate for consulting.

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anomalous_cowherd@reddit

Waiting for the shittysysadmin post from a smug CFO now...

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DonJuanDoja@reddit

Keep seeing this more and more or similar. Does anyone else get the feeling like there's some global conspiracy to lower the cost of IT in general? Everything from labor to hardware to services to development? Seems like they're coming at us from all sides trying to reduce the costs of technology. It already all seemed like a house of cards, this can't end well if companies keep doing it. I actually feel bad for the "Kyle's" of the world. Some of them are gonna kill themselves trying to make it work. Poor guys.

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upland_jake@reddit

Majorly shitty but sounds like a blessing honestly. What a terrible company!! I’m sure someone will try to go after them after the way they handled it 🤷🏻‍♂️

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ancient_snowboarder@reddit

I've been through this a few times: * Exit as graciously as possible * Have empathy for those remaining (they will be worse off than you) * Take some down time (I used one of these "breaks" to snowboard five days a week) * Keep your mind and skills sharp (maybe donate time to open source stuff) * Tend to your human network * Be ready to be asked back (know your worth and the $ rate you will require and other demands that need to be met) * Good luck; in this world it's often better to be lucky than good. But if you're good, then you just need to be patient for luck to come skiing

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exqueezemenow@reddit

The only thing I don't like about my jobs is being the person who cuts people off. I am never told why (for obvious reason), just who. And since I like everyone I work with it's always someone I like. It's always depressing getting the call to do it and having to wonder what happened.

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keitheii@reddit

Are you sure he was really a junior developer? I worked for a very well known company that was sold to a private equity firm years ago. They brought in a "business analyst" and a "dba" who acted the parts very well and had everyone else fooled, but me since I managed IT. They were brought in under false pretenses to get admin access to the environment and learn the systems so they were prepared to assume control of operations and IT when we ultimately were laid off. They already built a brand new company in another state, and had everyone's severance packages and termination dates decided and documented the day they took over our company and escorted the old CEO out, while telling everyone during a town hall that same day that no one was being let go, and no changes were being made, so "not to worry, everything is fine." I knew about their plans day one because the new CEO's laptop drive failed while on the plane over to us to take over, and informed me I better recover all of his data as all of the plans for the company were on it and he had no backups. The file names made it clear what their plans were, and I do understand its just business, but it wasn't fun watching my coworkers, people I becames friends with and cared about, thinking everything is fine when their termination dates had been decided before the new CEO even stepped into our office for the first time.

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Puddinhead-Wilson@reddit

What no one understands is payroll has been reduced. Expenses are up but that's a different line item category. I worked at a casino in NJ years ago. Big push to cut overtime. No overtime period. Limo department had about 10 limos in house. Limo driver's were paid about $20/hr. Limos were ordered by the casino marketing department for high rollers. By the time the weekend came the drivers had hit their 40 hours and outside limo companies were hired at $120 an hour. Company owned limos stayed in the garage. No overtime. The expenses for outside limo service wasn't a payroll expense. It made no sense to us non-accountant department heads but somehow it did to the accounting department.

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machacker89@reddit

When they come clawing back for issues or stuff they need. Time to charge then "up the nose" for your "services"

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lllGreyfoxlll@reddit

> No severance, no notice, nothing. Dude this is fucking wild to me. Like. This would be bacon bits for an employment lawyer in Europe. Sorry this happened to you and your team, mate. Sucks. But like others say in the thread, it may well be for the best, looks like the future of the business is dark as hell.

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National_Way_3344@reddit

Sorry to hear that OP, I hope the whole god damn place burns down without you there. It would be poetic justice. Maybe you'll even hear about the company bringing in external auditors down the line when they're liquidating.

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KeyClacksNSnacks@reddit

Damn, a 2011 date on this account, so quite legacy. I love how you dropped in the random Rodriguez to make it seem more realistic. Even Kyle who didn't know how to change his password. You're telling me you hired a junior developer who didn't know how to change his password? A developer to be the IT director? Yikes. This is fake as F.

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jdptechnc@reddit

No parents of gen Z-ers named their kid Kyle.

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likwitsnake@reddit

Reads like a bad ChatGPT post prompted to sound like a IT Sys Admin on Reddit lol

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Dry-Being3108@reddit

As an IT guy at a software company, I have had to help plenty of devs change their password.

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Dani_Dan_deWillard@reddit

yeah, is very common for devs to don't know that kind of stuff, I mean, they are focus in development, not in windows management

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frankztn@reddit

I'm suspicious as well, as someone in an MSP. We would've been in his servers long ago to price out the contract and if he didn't know then 🤷🏻‍♂️. However we see this all time, owners hiding the longevity of the business, owners selling company knowing all of the employees will get fucked, owners cost cutting to buy a boat. 😅

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Impressive_Change593@reddit

on their side giving you notice means you could break shit. on your side you should still get pay for a bit (if the company is decent, but it's not required). they're also probably gonna fold in a year or two

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pun_goes_here@reddit

This reads of AI slop

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gistexan@reddit

This is why you have to read the emails from the c-suite. Not the ones they send you, they ones they don't.

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chrislehr@reddit

you have a server room??? well had.... weird.

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Kerensky97@reddit

Just the usual reminder: Your employer doesn't care about you. It doesn't matter how long you've been there, how invaluable you've been or how much of the company was built on your hard work. We're all just a number in a piechart to the people in charge, and if they need to save some money they shrink that slice of the pie by 7 people. If sometimes you feel guilty calling in sick, or using your vacation, don't. They'll never give you the 2 weeks notice you give them when somebody offers you more money.

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Niceromancer@reddit

Kyle best he looking for a new job.

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GnarlyNarwhalNoms@reddit

If it's any consolation, they're about to find out in a big way. No ifs. This decision is insane. You should get together with everyone laid off and agree that if they get called back to help with "one last thing", they should tell them to pound sand. They made their bed.

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illarionds@reddit

They'll be back, begging you to fix *something* they don't understand. Agree a rate with all the other axed guys now, and stick to it.

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tf9623@reddit

Don't answer when they call or email. Something will break (maybe a certificate for the proxy server) or some bullshit that will take them out for a week or so. Let their MSP and how to reset password buy take care of it. You probably know stuff that can and will blow up or break and normally its just handled. Those dumbasses don't have any documentation and they're dumbasses. They spend much. I had a side gig at a property management company and finally got everything working locked down. They decided to go MSP and the MSP found that if everyone had admin rights they could install stuff easier. You can guess how that worked out for them..

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Coldsmoke888@reddit

Sorry man. Start networking with your colleagues now to find a new path. Most jobs are found through connections, not cold applications. What’s your general location? Maybe someone here has jobs posted. We’re on a hiring freeze right now.

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Zackey_TNT@reddit

Chatgpt slop will continue until morale improves and you all return to the office.

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iamLisppy@reddit

Very sorry that this happened to you but honestly, it sounds like it is for the best. If it wasn't now, it would have been at another point in time because it sounds like this company is headed for the poop shoot. I wish you luck in finding your next role and hopefully it will come with a fat pay raise. Always a light at the end of the tunnel my friend.

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Aware-Owl4346@reddit

I predict some fun future meetings between management and the reps at the MSP who sold them on this plan.

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SAugsburger@reddit

I'm sure a couple will be at a golf course or at a nice restaurant.

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arslearsle@reddit

yet another c level asshole or mba master of bizniz administration move - all these non it ppl striking their moves right now - but hey free market gives me a fat bonus - because im an asshole

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mailboy79@reddit

That's wild. The place is going under.

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z_agent@reddit

Fired with a pack your bags. You are not allowed to destroy anything. but.....Shit the shock of this has created some issues for me and I just cannot remember anything. I hope they have GREAT documentation and password manager that Kyle has full access to....

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rdldr1@reddit

I hope your company burns

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Nearby_Impact_8911@reddit

Holy smokes

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ncc74656m@reddit

I'm sorry, that's ass. It's awful no matter how it goes down, but I'm sorry that it happened no matter what, even if it's gonna be funny as hell to watch. Remember, you all need to find each other on LI or however you stayed in touch and make a pact that nobody sells out information to them for less than an absurdly high contracting rate per hour, with signed contracts in advance. Make them earn every piece of knowledge. Fortunately when it happened to us we knew we were getting replaced - word travels fast in a leaky ass ship. Still didn't make it a good or easy choice for me to go with them. The fun part though was my immediate ethical revenge: TONS of people hit me up regularly for direct help. I got to tell each and every one of them "We don't do that now, you have to submit a ticket." I'd also make sure that I took as long as possible to do that with every single one of them, too. Better, the cow of an Ops Director who thought because she got to manage the outsourcing tried to "tell us what to do" like we still worked for her. Turns out she never read the contract where when they promised "dedicated staff" it wasn't actually contractually assured. What's more, our manager assured us we took orders only from the MSP, never from the clients, and threatened her that he'd pull us all from assisting at that client at all if she continued to try that. There was so many "That's not part of our contract"s and "That's a billable task" and "Best Efforts" that they regretted it royally within just 3 months. Better still, the guy they had doing the onboarding was a lazy clown who was always late, totally checked out, and didn't actually do any meaningful documentation. I absolutely died laughing the whole time I was there. The company didn't give a shit about us, but both managers I had there tried to make us comfortable, protect us, and work to find our strengths and make sure we were in a position to do that work. What's more he seemed to delight in us knowing how to milk them for money for the company. These dumb fucks got themselves billed 12k for a broken SINGLE INSTANCE of a print server that ultimately never even went into prod. I may have hated both the client and the MSP, but I had a good time at that MSP.

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BadSausageFactory@reddit

See if the MSP would like to hire you for institutional knowledge with the agreement that you never come onsite or speak directly to the client, ie your ex-employer. Even if they're ripping it out, having someone who installed it will be helpful.

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ballzsweat@reddit

Have fun running your business….

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ExoticAsparagus333@reddit

> The cherry on top? As we're walking out, I see the MSP guys already setting up in the server room. These people planned this for weeks and didn't say a goddamn word to any of us. Why would they tell you and probably lose their job to?

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No-Suggestion-2402@reddit

Well, expect them to maybe come back crawling and you can charge quadruple as consultant. Seen that happen more than I can count.

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moffetts9001@reddit

Well, at least you grabbed the Monster first. The MSP promised some sucker at your former employer a virtual CIO for $8 per month per endpoint with all support included and they went for it. Fuck em.

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thebdaman@reddit

Damn. Good luck with wherever you choose to go brother.

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ShadowCVL@reddit

Time for a short vacation while you process. I had something very similar happen to me in 2005. If they call, you don’t know ANYTHING without a minimum 4 hour consulting contract, got it? No “hey do you know the admin password to x” nothing. If they ask where you kept your break glass passwords you can tell them, especially if you put them in a password vault but do not give your password to said vault without the commit.

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vipre@reddit

I feel bad for Rodriguez.

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windowsmediacenter@reddit

Holy shit that's brutal. Making Kyle the "IT Director" when he probably just learned what a domain controller is yesterday 💀 At least you're out before the whole place burns down

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Sprucecaboose2@reddit

MSPs are genuinely going to be the housing bubble crash of the corporate world when a major one shits the bed. But good luck, may you wind up in a better position soon!

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2clipchris@reddit

Name and shame. Not a victim blame or make you feel some type of way. Layoffs suck I was laid off last year but the signs were there. You might start questioning when things changed or what you could have done differently. There is nothing, the signs were there and unfortunately you were unprepared. Don’t get stuck in that loop. Take the time to cry, apply for unemployment, apply for marketplace healthcare if qualify for credits, process your emotions and get back on the ball. The market is rough right now but you will make it through.

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BrainWaveCC@reddit

Sorry about the chaos. Take a day to decompress, and then start leveraging your network and looking for decent opportunities. Here are some aggregate job hunting sites that you should consider using: * [hiring.cafe](http://hiring.cafe/) * [skillsire.com](http://skillsire.com/) * [leethub.io](http://leethub.io/) * [hiring.fm/jobs](http://hiring.fm/jobs) * [credible-app.com/](https://credible-app.com/) * [newhire.tech](http://newhire.tech/)

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planedrop@reddit

They will regret this and one day there will be a big push to "internalize IT", they won't rehire the same people, but it'll happen. They won't learn their lesson though, they'll just think it was a good idea and then the MSP or something let them down later down the road. Happens all the time, companies do this and then everything goes to shit. The other thought here is maybe money issues? They might just be doing this out of desperation.

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Shot_Fan_9258@reddit

I wish there was a way to leak the main domain so they can regret.

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greenstarthree@reddit

AI slop?

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thatdudewill@reddit

sounds like a dumpster fire of a business. it is devastating to lose your job I’ve been through it a few times and it doesn’t get easier. Us IT folks have skills and backgrounds where we can hopefully land that next gig soon. Good luck, you will come out of this better.

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Optimal_Law_4254@reddit

You’re in IT and you’re surprised that you weren’t told?

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Ill-Detective-7454@reddit

Massive oof. Are you in the USA ? Good luck bro

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PillClinton4@reddit

Damn bro. Thats harsh. I know its cliche. But ur gonna bounce back. Im wishing the best for you truly. I was just let go a cpl months ago myself. And while it was a major blow to my ego. Im ultimately super relieved and a lot happier. Hang in there dude

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