Intel quietly rolls out 'new' Core 5 CPUs that look suspiciously like 12th Gen chips — Core 5 120 and Core 5 120F enter the budget gaming market with i5-12400 specs and 100 MHz boost
Posted by kikimaru024@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 67 comments
Zenith251@reddit
In fairness, AMD is still pumping out AM4 CPU SKUs, and mobile SKU's names have been obfuscated so the average consumer wouldn't know if they were getting Zen2, 3, or 4.
The difference is, AMD is putting out a competitive/leading product, and Intel isn't. Intel needs to make a good desktop chip. Or server chip. Or mobile. Fricken something good besides Lunar Lake.
TurtleCrusher@reddit
AMD is only putting out AM4 CPUs to utilize wafer starts they already paid for and is solely insurance in case AM5 didn’t pan out. Intel doesn’t have that problem as they own their own foundry.
narwi@reddit
is that really true? all of the 5xxx lineup seems to be readily available, not trickling out as you would expect if it was just dregs of manufacturing
TurtleCrusher@reddit
Demand is not high on those parts but not because of their performance. Used market takes a huge dent out of it since AM4 has been around for so long. People who are willing to swap a CPU or build a PC from scratch are more likely to be willing to buy used parts to save a chunk of money.
narwi@reddit
a lot of budget prebuilds are staying with am4, esp as ma5 mb are just too expensive
Zenith251@reddit
I don't know the validity of this statement, but assuming it's all the case:
Don't they? Foundry capacity not used is money lost. Whether it's AMD's contract with TSMC, or Intel's own foundry capacity for Intel CPUs, either company stands to lose money on chips not made at the moment.
If Intel's foundries had customers lining up like TSMC does, it wouldn't be an issue. At least it would average out to not being an issue. If Intel's CPUs sales slumped, that would just mean more wafers to sell.
SmartOpinion69@reddit
intel does haver a good mobile chip with their lunar lake but intel probably makes razor thin margins on that
makistsa@reddit
What disguise? It's core 5 not core ULTRA 5. We know for a long time that they are not meteor lake or arrow lake. Core are renamed. Core ULTRA are the new ones. Has the writer gone senile?
Rais93@reddit
Let's defend the poor megacorp
frsguy@reddit
What? How is he defending Intel by correcting the authors confusion?
Rais93@reddit
The nomenclature is intentionally misleading. Don't play the fool and don't try to joke on us.
Nanas700kNTheMathMjr@reddit
How do you suggest Intel calls these CPUs under the new naming scheme to make it clearer than Ultra = New?
Intel Core Worse 5?
T_Gracchus@reddit
You’re on a hardware enthusiast subreddit, of course you’re able to make sense of it. Pretending like AMD and Intel haven’t had intentionally confusing naming schemes to take advantage of end users is defending them.
The switch to Core X was just another one of those decisions. ‘What are they supposed to call them?’ is a poor defense when they came up with the terrible naming schemes themselves.
tecedu@reddit
Not defending Intel here, I hate their naiming system as well. But the author of a technical article is supposed to know these things as well.
Nanas700kNTheMathMjr@reddit
How is it terrible? It's Ultra vs non-Ultra, and Arrow Lake desktop is rightfully one generation ahead as 200 vs 100. So, we have Ultra, and numbers clearly showing that it's older. What more do you want?
Nobody, nobody is going to mistake this for Arrow Lake, because to top it all off, this is LGA 1700.
The bigger first number, the newer. Like it has always been since the 90s and 286 vs 386. Stop whining
Exist50@reddit
Maybe don't rebrand the same CPU across 4 different generations at all? If it's old, let it keep the old name.
Nanas700kNTheMathMjr@reddit
Yeah well, in practice that has been the case since the beginning of the new scheme.
Also, the generation number is 1 which clearly indicates it being older than Arrow Lake's 200. I honestly don't think they could have made it ANY clearer, aside from calling it i5-12450, which then wouldn't have made drove the point across that it's not old stock that has been sitting in a warehouse.
Core 5 120 isn't going to make anyone believe that it's Arrow Lake lool.
And even counting mobile it doesn't conflict with MTL, since they have the Ultra branding. Just Core 5 like mobile RPL-U rebadges (eg. core 5 120U).
Exist50@reddit
The naming is 2 gens old, and even there doesn't have any real consistency. For example, we have the "Core Ultra" branded "ARL-U", which despite both the Ultra and 200 series naming, uses the last gen Meteor Lake CPU cores, and a significantly worse node than the actual ARL.
Nanas700kNTheMathMjr@reddit
Thanks to the higher clocks brought by the die-shrink to Intel 3 the 200U CPUs are around 8-10% better in both ST and MT on average and up to 20% better. And despite the higher clocks, they still show better Perf per watt.
They are new and improved noticeably over MTL-U, and they bring better battery life than ARL-H so no one buying those is getting shafted. It's true that the naming is inconsistent, but they need to make something on their own nodes.
This is new silicon and it's clearly separated into the U line. They aren't mixing literal rebadges with new CPUs like AMD with Zen3 (r7 5700U, a rebadged 4700u, vs 5800U)
But actually, you may be right, the Ultra branding could be down to the presence of the NPU. Haven't seen a ""AI""-capable chip sold without the Ultra branding yet. I hope they have a sliver of pattern recognition and realize it's better "my" way. But I doubt it.
Exist50@reddit
You honestly don't think anyone is being conned into believing they're actually ARL? Despite essentially all of Intel's marketing info suggesting that?
Yes, it's better than MTL, but it's not the jump you'd expect from ARL.
Well going back to that topic, they're still rebranding this chip as something new. And remember, this is the 3rd rebrand of Alder Lake (13th, 14th, "Core 100". They're no less shameless about it than AMD.
Might eventually be used like that, but I don't think that's the delineator today. MTL/ARL still have a pretty useless NPU, while LNL's is night and day. My hope is that when PTL comes out they can collapse the lineup down dramatically to just PTL, at least for mobile.
ezkailez@reddit
Put it under different letters? E.g. core 5 120L
I don't understand why they rebadge it in the first place, they could've just make core ultra 3 replace the old i5 in the lineup
toddestan@reddit
I agree, if they wanted to release a slightly clocked faster i5-12400, call it the i5-12405 or something like that and be done.
frsguy@reddit
I have a feeling you going to put a tin foil hat on.
Really don't know what you mean here.
Oxire@reddit
Let's defend another poor megacorp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_plc
imaginary_num6er@reddit
It's because the "ULTRA" brand is toxic. Gamers and enthusiasts consider any Intel chips with them as ultra poor value
shugthedug3@reddit
Have you considered that maybe what reddit's "gamers and enthusiasts" think doesn't mean much?
ResponsibleJudge3172@reddit
It means a lot for CPUs apparently. Looking at early Ryzen hype and current Intel (downtrend) vs their sales data
constantlymat@reddit
No. The writer merely understands that the casual non enthusiast audience which still buys the majority of desktop PCs will have no idea of that distinction and assume the new naming scheme comes with the new architecture.
slither378962@reddit
Aka: What the heck does "ultra" mean anyway?
SherbertExisting3509@reddit
Cause apple lol
"Lion Cove" is an obvious dig at Apple's OSX Tiger, Mountain Lion, etc
Lunar Lake is an obvious shot for Intel creating an M1 like product (Thankfully, Skymont LPe allowed it to compete with the M3 in efficency)
Intel EVO standard introduced LTPO displays, just like mobile phones.
Apple leaving Intel was a massive blow to the company, Intel's actions in the last 4 years have been a direct result of the M1 and Apple silicon
Golden Cove was a follow-up to Sunny Cove since it was likely in development since 2018 or 2019
BabySnipes@reddit
Read a dictionary 🙄
notaccel@reddit
an extremist. "ultras in the animal rights movement"
Gee, that certainly helped.
BabySnipes@reddit
Read a Thesaurus 🙄
Nanas700kNTheMathMjr@reddit
Using the word disguise is not reasonable. Because they know the difference, and therefore, they shouldn't be pushing this absurd narrative to drive up clicks but instead explain.
Excusing clickbait headlines is crazy lool
Fit_Flower_8982@reddit
The answer is literally right there in the same paragraph, or just requires the tiniest bit of common sense. I'm amazed such a stupid comment has so many upvotes, are there really that many corporate bootlickers upset about intel's malicious obfuscation being called out?
MassiveBoner911_3@reddit
Yes.
DanielKramer_@reddit
lmao
Ragular_Guy@reddit
As a System builder, I have completely abandoned the 13th and 14th Generation. New Ultra Core is a joke with socket going to expire this year. Intel is in my opinion is not good for anything except 12th Gen and Budget PC.
SmartOpinion69@reddit
the last 2 good things that came out of intel was alder lake and lunar lake.
arctic_bull@reddit
Also great if you live in cold environments lol
SmartOpinion69@reddit
intel hasn't improved much since alder lake release and 13/14th gen had those voltage problems. perhaps alder lake fabs were cheaper and possibly the best way to go with budget gaming
rTpure@reddit
does the people at R&D in Intel just sit on their butts and do nothing all day?
FoRiZon3@reddit
It's not that. Its that they knew 13th and 14th generation are bet9nd fucked so they clear up the 12th Gen stock (or actually produce it back again) and rebrand it as new.
sltrsd@reddit
I found this comment on this YouTube video:
"I worked at Intel for two years and, during that time, I didn't see a single person who took their job seriously. Many employees would spend over three hours a day playing multiplayer games and then take two-hour lunch breaks, often stretching their workday with little accountability. It always puzzled me how the company managed to survive for so long with such a lack of professionalism and productivity. In my view, its survival was largely due to questionable business practices — especially bribing computer manufacturers to purchase their chips. It's no surprise that the company has declined so badly; it was only a matter of time before poor culture and ethics caught up with it."
logosuwu@reddit
If you're taking YouTube comments as gospel you might as well believe in MLID
Soggy_Association491@reddit
Their sysadmin must had a lot of leeway to let people install video game on computers and allow them to connect to such services on the internet.
They also must be pretty leet if they can be that lax and still not get hacked.
nanonan@reddit
Seems perfectly likely that they did get hacked.
heickelrrx@reddit
These are on older mature node, and Intel node it's cheaper to produce
It's about hitting the low price, not making it fast
kuddlesworth9419@reddit
What R&D? They all got let go.
Alive_Worth_2032@reddit
AMD launched a Zen 2 based SKU like last year or something in mobile.
Both companies do the same shit at the lower end.
FragrantMatch124@reddit
I think this a upper management problem and not the fault of the developers.
Developers normally want to develop the best and fastest chips physically possible.
TCGG-@reddit
They’re not called developers. That’s software, not hardware…
Affectionate-Memory4@reddit
Some do. Some of us bust our asses on a new node just to watch it get canned. I have a bit of salt over 20A.
Things like this aren't an R&D problem. This is marketing wanting things to look new and shiny, reading them. Just like how Ryzen 200 existing doesn't mean Zen6/7 R&D has stopped at AMD.
Exist50@reddit
There is an RnD problem in that Intel doesn't have anything newer that competes in the same cost envelope. MTL/ARL are simply too expensive.
StarHammer_01@reddit
Bold of you to assume there's any people in R&D after all the layoffs and mismanagement
Vellanne_@reddit
Takes a lot of time to figure out how to put hardware defects in 2 generations of products
GongTzu@reddit
It makes sense as a lot of system assemblers are still using the 12400f due to price, but with the DDR4 price hike in may and June, it’s a system that is hard to sell, and the fact that SI’s can use one main board for their production of Intel PCs makes it cheaper for them to stock.
nanonan@reddit
This is an LGA1700 product, so no new motherboards.
Techhead7890@reddit
Aren't there versions of the chipset on DDR5? I've seen the 12400 be compatible with both DDR4 and DDR5.
robbyb20@reddit
I have a 12th gen with ddr5.
Techhead7890@reddit
Thanks for the confirmation and corroborating info.
zir_blazer@reddit
Confirmed H0 (Alder Lake 6P 0E) die, it IS actually on Intel Ark - not on the english one.
English for some reason has no Ordering & Compliance tab.
120 in English: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/245112/intel-core-5-processor-120-18m-cache-up-to-4-50-ghz/specifications.html?wapkw=245112 120F in English: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/245111/intel-core-5-processor-120f-18m-cache-up-to-4-50-ghz/specifications.html
LATAM:
120 Stepping H0 sSpec SA35V: https://www.intel.la/content/www/xl/es/products/sku/245112/intel-core-5-processor-120-18m-cache-up-to-4-50-ghz/ordering.html
120F Stepping H0 sSpec SA35W:
https://www.intel.la/content/www/xl/es/products/sku/245111/intel-core-5-processor-120f-18m-cache-up-to-4-50-ghz/ordering.html
EasyRhino75@reddit
Wonder what socket it will use
red286@reddit
Says LGA1700, so last gen socket (12th/13th/14th gen), not current-gen.
Basically a way to clear out old board stock if anyone's still sitting on them, I guess?
EasyRhino75@reddit
I mean for the right price a raptor lake 13400 equivalent would be great.
maybe LGA1700 will accidentally become Intel's undying AM4 socket...
amdcoc@reddit
Could have just rebranded it as an core 3 and core 5 could be the 6p+4e ones
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