We do have power of arrest for an arrestable offence in any area. But it is extremely uncommon for us to do so. I have arrested people in Nottinghamshire when I do not work for that force.
I could arrest someone when off duty on holiday in London, for example
Just out of curiosity. I assume that an example of where it was possibly expected would have been around this time last year?
Were a lot of officers drafted in from areas that weren't likely to be targeted to potentially make arrests in those that were?
We’ve just had a situation recently where officers from across the country were put up in hotels in Scotland to police the state visit of a foreign pumpkin.
Yes. You hold the office of constable regardless. I have arrested a shoplifter off duty - naturally you need someone on shift to come take them off your hands
My dad was a copper for 30 odd years. Growing up in Liverpool, I lost count of the amount of times we'd be on a family day out and dad would bolt off to go and beat up a shoplifter or someone with a warrant out.
It always started as an arrest but because he was in civvies and no bystanders would help, and he had no cuffs etc, it would just degenerate into a full punch up in the street.
Me, my brother and sister and mum just watching from the back seat of the Cortina, mum crying 🤣.
Ah the good ol' 80s
Policing in the UK is one of my favourite topics. The oldest formal police force in the world is generally considered to be the Marine Police Force, established in 1798 on the River Thames in London who then became part of the Metropolitan Police when a parliamentary act was passed in 1829.
Prior to then, law enforcement among the general population in England was carried out by unpaid parish constables who were elected, and later appointed by the local justice of the peace. In certain circumstances there were Yeomen, who really were considered part of the army, who would intervene to support local authorities if needed.
When the first Metropolitan Police Forces were formed they were founded on what was known as the "Peelian principles" based on ideas that Sir Robert Peel developed to define an ethical police force. In this model of policing, police officers are regarded as "citizens in uniform".
They are given authority to police their fellow citizens with the implicit consent of those fellow citizens. "Policing by consent" indicates that the legitimacy of policing in the eyes of the public is based upon a consensus of support that follows from transparency about their powers, their integrity in exercising those powers, and their accountability for doing so. In this system, officers have a "warrant card" which indicates they are authorised to carry out the duties, responsibilities and powers of arrest conferred to them by the consent of their fellow citizens.
The American style of policing, although originally based on these principles, has become more complex with federal, state and local police forces all operating within differing rules and judicial authorities.
English and Welsh coppers have powers of arrest across England and Wales, regardless of which home force they're attached to. Scotland has its own legal system, and therefore their own coppers - we can make an arrest on Scottish soil, but it's a bit more convoluted. It's the same in Norn Iron - anything over there is best left to the PSNI to take care of.
Seen a lot of Welsh police leaving Scotland the other day. I'm assuming they were up for Trumps visit. My guess is they must have some form of jurisdiction otherwise it would be pointless to send them up here
And all police officers have jurisdiction across the whole of the UK too.
Forces often work outside of there location for example football games where away teams police will also be part of the team
That's not quite correct. English and Welsh officers can arrest in Scotland for offences suspected in England and Wales. Scottish officers can arrest in England or Wales, but only with a warrant.
> That's not quite correct. English and Welsh officers can arrest in Scotland for offences suspected in England and Wales. Scottish officers can arrest in England or Wales, but only with a warrant.
A Scottish officer in England or Wales can arrest for a Scottish offence without a warrant. The powers are the same as if the arrest took place in Scotland so long as they are dealing with a Scottish crime. Section 137(2) of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994:
> If the condition applicable to this subsection is satisfied, any constable of a police force in Scotland who has reasonable grounds for suspecting that an offence has been committed or attempted in Scotland and that the suspected person is in England or Wales or in Northern Ireland may, as respects the suspected person, wherever he is in England or Wales or in Northern Ireland, exercise the same powers of arrest as it would be competent for him to exercise were the person in Scotland.
In other words if we don't need a warrant in Scotland we can arrest that person without a warrant anywhere else in the UK for a Scottish offence.
Do you know what the situation is the other way round?
During COP26 in Glasgow there were 10,000 police officers from all over the UK deployed each day. I struggle to believe they wouldn’t be permitted to arrest someone.
Mutual aid works a bit differently. Generally for those deployed in another jurisdiction on mutual aid like that they will have the powers and privileges of a constable in that jurisdiction ([section 98(5) of the Police Act 1996](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/16/section/98)).
Numbers look shit against burglary and assault and drink driving figures, Im sure.
I also know for definite theyre a fucking dangerous bunch when they need to be and I’d much much rather have them and not need them than i would need them and not have them.
I had around £1000 worth of property stolen recently. The police officer couldn't give a shit and I asked why--he said we don't investigate anything valued under £200. I said it was worth a grand and he still didn't give a fuck.
But that didn't stop them coming to my house for playing some supposedly loud music a few months earlier 🙃
Police officers have jurisdiction across England and Wales. Their jurisdiction only stops at Scotland and Northern Ireland, but even then there can be exceptions.
It would be unlikely that Greater Manchester Police would actively go and arrest someone in Newcastle, more than likely they'd let Newcastle know about Person X who's wanted in Manchester and we know they're in your neck of the woods, can you get them for us?
Units like Road Policing will work a lot more across borders, particularly in a pursuit for obvious reasons
Sometimes they do. It is not totally unheard of for officers to travel off their own patch to arrest someone elsewhere.
It happened near me a couple of times, I live over an hour from London and once saw two Met Police cars outside a house one morning.
PACE states that you should us use the closest available/most practicable custody suite (cannot remember the exact wording or part, please don't come at me) when someone is arrested. A&S officer here, and I've gone out of force, arrested someone, used their custody, with no issues.
Yes same here to be perfectly honest! Where I live, our 'county that isn't really a county' has its own Police force, but we are surrounded by three much larger forces and there are two main artierial roads running through the area, so it's not uncommon to see traffic cars from multiple local forces on those routes
I implore you to watch Operation Dark Phone. New documentary showing how UK police dealt with the encrochat breach.
It’s jaw dropping, Im watching it now. Will show you in astounding depth exactly how what you’re asking about actually works
https://preview.redd.it/zmsi50fge3gf1.png?width=749&format=png&auto=webp&s=41c4bdaa570da4b93a896e759d20cb9795727b0c
I followed the whole thing as it was happening (as it was announced*) during lockdown. A lad I used to buy tiny bits of weed off 5 years prior was arrested with multiple kilos of coke and heroin, pistol, shotgun and police uniforms. A few other generally known local guys got caught up in it so was pretty invested in the whole thing at the time.
Even so, documentary was an eye opener as to how the whole thing happened. Crazy crazy operations being run from all involved on both sides of the law.
Makes you realise all this is going on every day all around us and even those of us with a foot in the murky water have no idea whats really going on up top.
I think many of us live in ignorant bliss about how many murky goings on are happening probably in plain view, people think of users and dealers as idiots (no offence intended) but in reality there's probably some ingenious methods of shipping going on
I was an idiot, none taken haha. Most are, but up on the eye of the pyramid theyre a different beast. When we were watching my Mrs joked “Theres not nearly enough frenchies and XLs here for it to be realistic” and it made me realise these guys Dont even enjoy life - they have no real interests or passions aside from enjoying their false luxuries and staying one step ahead of the police and their opposition.
No dogs, no stability, no future, nothing to look forward to cos theyre too busy looking behind them over their shoulder.
Every plastic gangster ten bag/3for100 drug dealer acts like theyre about their business, but they’re not even on the same planet as these animals running these operations.
Yes they can, we had Cambridgeshire Police turn up at our flat in Brighton while we were both at work and they got Brighton to kick the door in, which was really fun.
I think the only possible place this applies is Scotland.. and that only because there is a separate legal system so arresting someone might have slightly different
We just have one police force. They do have their own areas but there's no "state lines" or strictly limited jurisdictions. They do communicate if a case covers multiple areas.
The nearest thing to the FBI is the National Crime Agency. But again they are just made up of police.
To me American cop shows are more complicated because you have police, sheriffs, state troopers, the FBI...
Agree about the American shows. Beats me how they work out Jurisdiction with so many police forces. Unless of course it is a federal crime which goes to the FBI
That’s the major difference. We don’t have federal crimes.
You could for sake of comparison consider England and wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland to be separate policing entities.
I suppose any act that is criminalised in a way that applies to _all of_ the four nations is basically a federal crime.
IANAL but I think a large portion of our criminal law does apply equally to all four nations, because it's common law from before we had a parliament etc? Of course there are also surely acts that are criminalised by Acts that apply only to E&W, or only to Scotland, etc.
But my understanding was that the main differences between Scottish law and E&W law were in civil law aspects like contract law, property transactions, etc.
> IANAL but I think a large portion of our criminal law does apply equally to all four nations, because it's common law from before we had a parliament in London etc? Or laws enacted by Westminster that explicitly apply to all four nations, especially from before devolution was a thing.
Scotland has a very different legal system to England and Wales (and Northern Ireland). Scottish criminal law is very different to that in the rest of the UK in many, many respects and a big part of that is that Scots law has always been separate to English law since the UK was formed. Some of the most significant differences between the Scottish legal system and the English legal system predate devolution by hundreds of years. The Scottish legal system is not a common law legal system in the way that English law and instead is a hybrid system.
To use the example you give further down the page stabbing somebody in Gretna is indeed a crime but it isn't the same crime as stabbing somebody in Carlisle. Whilst the English legal system distinguishes between things like battery, actual bodily harm, grievous bodily harm etc the Scottish legal system has a single common law crime of assault with various aggravations.
Theft is another example. English law has a statutory offence of theft but theft is a crime at common law in Scotland and has been for hundreds of years. Breaking into a house and stealing something in E&W may amount to a burglary but the equivalent crime in Scotland would be a theft by housebreaking.
There are many more examples of significant differences in the criminal law between Scotland and other parts of the UK. Murder is defined differently in Scotland, there is no crime of manslaughter (the nearest equivalent being culpable homicide), wilful fire raising being the analogue of arson etc. they are all very old crimes in Scots law that have existed long before devolution. Police powers are very different in Scotland, criminal procedure in general is very different and that all goes back a long, long time given the history of the Scottish legal system.
> But my understanding was that the main differences between Scottish law and E&W law were in civil law aspects like contract law, property transactions, etc.
Unfortunately your understanding is way off the mark.
The criminal court procedure is very different too
An example of a law difference is drink driving. In Carlisle blow .32 and you are fine. In Gretna, your not.
Sure but if you stab someone in Gretna and in Carlisle, it's the same crime either side, no?
Court procedure comes after, it affects how you're determined to be guilty and how you're sentenced, not whether the thing is a crime in the first place.
TBF we used to have university police forces at Oxford and Cambridge.
There’s quite a long list of former police forces around the UK:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defunct_law_enforcement_agencies_in_the_United_Kingdom
No, the USA is actually under-policed, and that's part of the source of their troubles.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/police-officers-per-1000-people
Smaller police force means they don't have time/resources to act better and thus rely on force more (to simplify incredibly)
Part of the problem is also that the resource is concentrated in areas that don't need it (rich areas), rather than poor areas. The problem I mentioned above is significantly worse in poorer areas
Confidentially massively incorrect - we've got loads of police forces - 45 territorial ones - mostly along county borders but some national like Police Scotland and Police Service of Northern Ireland, 3 with specific remits (CNC - Civil Nuclear Police, BTP - British Transport Police & MDP - Ministry of Defence Police) and then a host of tiny niche ones like Mersey Tunnels Police.
NCA also aren't police officers - they're civil servants, some of whom are given some of the powers (arrest for example) that police officers inherently have.
To further complicate things, there's 3 legal systems in the UK - England & Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.
I spent some time in podunk nowhere in the US.
Even ignoring the federal level, we had city police (for a "city" with a permanent population of ~900), sheriff is county, state police, tribal police, and the department of natural resources have a lot more powers than you'd expect too.
It felt like any given definition of "local" had its own law enforcement.
I used to work in a pub in a pub outside London and 2 of the regulars were met officers and if someone caused trouble they would arrest them, call the local
Police to take them away and then claim a couple hours of overtime for about 15 minutes work.
Our ‘counties’ don’t work quite the same as your ‘states’ do so there’s not jurisdiction boundary as such.
So a traffic officer chasing someone down the M62 can still stop and arrest a suspect if they cross into Yorkshire, for example. That said, surely cops in America don’t just stop if someone crosses a state line?!?!
As far as an arrest goes in Newcastle for an offence that took place in Greater Manchester and is being investigated by their force, I think it would be on a case by case basis and determined by whether it’s a planned operation or if the local police in Newcastle happen to see it he suspect. If it’s planned then I’d imagine one of the investigation leads would go up to make the arrest on collaboration with the local police.
Think of the US less like the UK and more like the EU. There’s free movement within the EU between nation states, each state has their own laws, etc. the US is continent sized, it’s not unreasonable to have a huge area with free movement and police forces that do in fact stop at the border. Most laws you would break in the US are state specific
In addition to the other responses, Special Constables (unpaid volunteers, for the benefit of international Redditors) only have full powers within their own county. Police Act 1996 section 30 refers.
There are some limited circumstances where they have full powers out of county, which is covered in section 24.
In general, police officers are standard citizens but gain additional powers to stop, arrest, detain and search people, and to access and search premises under provisions of PACE. They also get certain exemptions (legal defences) from activities that are normally unlawful, such as carrying offensive weapons/firearms, traffic laws etc.
> In addition to the other responses, Special Constables (unpaid volunteers, for the benefit of international Redditors) only have full powers within their own county. Police Act 1996 section 30 refers.
I think you are looking at the legislation as it was passed as that used to be the case but it was amended in 2007 to extend their jurisdiction to the whole of England and Wales.
That’s no longer true, it is true for non warranted staff roles where they can exercise powers like PCSO’s because those powers are delegated by individual chief constables.
I was once stopped at a traffic light in Leicester when all of a sudden the car in front of me gets blocked in by unmarked cars and about a million plain clothes cops surround the car, smash the windows and drag the people inside out. I assumed it was Leicestershire raiding some local drug dealers or something but I ended up seeing something about it in the paper and apparently it was actually the Met (London police) taking out a gang of South American Jewel thieves!!
The NCA (National Crime Agency) is about the closest we have to the FBI. They target bigger more organised elements of crime I.e local police might take down low level dealers but the NCA will go after those dealers who are the first to handle imported drugs. The NCA work closely with GCHQ (British NSA) to get more technical expertise on surveillance, intelligence etc.
There’s also an in between as well, there are ROCU’s which usually sit above a number of forces for example the North West ROCU is responsible for all of the north west force areas(Cumbria, lancs, GMP Merseyside, Cheshire and north west wales I think). They deal with intelligence regionally where the NCA do it nationally, there’s plenty of overlap mind you.
Yes and no. Police officers have powers of arrest across the UK in law, and have a duty to uphold the law even when in other forces’ areas or when off duty. Operationally, there are rules about who is responsible for what, and crossing those can be a disciplinary matter.
Warks and Northants Police can't even decide whose jurisdiction the M45 is in, so neither of them claim responsibility for it. As a result, as well as it's low traffic, it's become the closest thing to the Autobahn in Britain.
That’s not a jurisdiction issue - they both don’t want to be in charge (both forces constables’ would have the exact same powers) because they don’t have the resources presumably.
A warranted police officer has authority in England and Wales. Scotland operates under their own laws.
For simplicities sake if I wanted to arrest someone on the other side of the country I would ask the home force for that individual to do it for me. Not because I couldn't but because travelling hours and hours to make an arrest attempt isn't particularly sensible.
When we have sent officers north of the wall to assist Scotland they have had to get "sworn in" to work as constables up there and avoid a legal snag.
All our territorial police forces come under the home office rather than being answerable only to the mayor of a city so there is a lot of commonality of approach. Political murmurings at the moment seem to suggest this will be strengthened, with the talk of the new "super forces" absorbing smaller forces. Not a great idea to my mind but noone listens to what I have to say anyway!
> When we have sent officers north of the wall to assist Scotland they have had to get "sworn in" to work as constables up there and avoid a legal snag.
As a police officer in Scotland a lot of English cops here on mutual aid will repeat this to their mates but it is not a thing. There is absolutely no requirement for it as there is legislation dealing with cross border mutual aid and it just does not happen. I've been deployed in England, Wales and Northern Ireland on mutual aid during my career and never had to be sworn in anywhere else. It is the same legislation underpinning that and nobody from the rest of the UK needs to be sworn in when they come up here.
What's the situation with MOD Plod and the British Transport Police? And isn't there a nuclear police force too, or did I dream that? Does their warrant extend across the whole of the UK too?
Yes they're national, but CNC and MOD Plod will almost never get involved with actual day to day civil policing
BTP is different but has a separate division dedicated to Scotland
They're not restricted by their force area but the law is different in England/Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland so officers who cross the borders are not able to arrest people on the other side unless appropriately trained and attested.
A key piece of legislation that cover this is s136 Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994,
Consequently the Act gives power:
to execute arrest warrants in each others country, without gaining permission of the local judiciary e.g. an English officer may arrest a person in Scotland who is wanted on an English Warrant;
to cross borders and arrest a person for a crime that occurred in their home country e.g. an English officer may arrest or detain a person in Scotland for an English crime using their 'home' powers;
to arrest persons in each others country in accordance with local law thereby giving a limited extension of jurisdiction e.g. an English officer in Scotland may use Scottish powers to arrest a person committing an arrestable offence there;
There is also cross border cooperation between the PSNI and the Garda down south. If they think you're making a run for the border, the other side's officers will be waiting for you.
UK police do not have the US issue of crossing the state line, the cops would have to break off the chase.
UK police can operate and make arrests outside of their force area. In a pre planned operation, the local force will have been informed not only as a matter of courtesy but also to assess any local impact or safety issues.
The National Crime Agency is sometimes referred to in the media as the UK's FBI.
Me and my hilly billy brother, Bo, once made a dash for the Bedfordshire border in our souped up 1.0L Corsa named General Lee, but Boss Hog just followed us and arrested us, even though we were over the county line! The TV show lied!
Police officers can make arrests anywhere in the UK. Cross-border arrest powers between the constituent nations of the UK were codified into law in 1994 and 2017. Welsh police will cheerfully chase you into England and arrest you there if you're trying to flee, and vice-versa.
Increasingly the likes of North Wales Police and Cheshire Police are sharing duties like Roads policing near the border, and they have shared armed respond and dog units, I believe.
There can be jurisdiction issues with rivers.
Some forces have a 'too and fro' policy when it comes to dead bodies arriving on 'their' side of the river.
So I've been told, anyway. Surrey and Thames Valley IIRC.
That’s simply an ownership issue over something actually limited by jurisdiction. There’s no legal reason either force couldn’t investigate it - but the argument will be over who’s best placed to own the investigation. Generally where the body went in and what area the individual is actually from/has links to will help.
It’s not that going miles out of their jurisdiction would be out of procedure, it’s just that why would they bother travelling all the way to Newcastle when they could just call up the Newcastle local police and have them do the same thing more conveniently
Consider asking in r/policeuk for best answers.
In short (assuming remembering right) Police in England and Wales can arrest anywhere in the UK for offences committed in the UK.
There are just under 50 police forces in England and Wales roughly one per county, with 1 in Scotland and i think 1 in Ireland.
For England and Wales you can go into another area to arrest should you need to, sometimes if it isnt a dynamic situation you'd ask the other area to do it on your behalf.
Yes and no, essentially we share all intelligence, but split areas up by funding. You do ask for force permission to enter these areas, so it isn't a "They are leaving Norfolk so I will stop." It will be a I am leaving our area, can someone take over or shall I continute. This is largely due to local knowledge, the local area know the dead ends, where they will go too etc...
For an arrest of if you are wanted, they will just contact the local force and let them deal with it, then transport them.
You don’t have to ask another force permission to enter their area. It’s a very good idea to let them know and be on their radio channel in case something unexpected happens, and a pursuit will be handed over when appropriate, but no permission is required.
It's often a trope in US shows that the "baddies" escape if they reach the State Line, indeed I think there are specific offences regarding taking persons or things across those lines.
It is not true in the UK.
However, if police were escorting an ambulance (for example) through several police areas, the escorts do swap at convient places.
Just as minor note there's other 3 Police forces beyond the regular police-
\-British Transport Police
\-MoD Police
\-Civil Nuclear Constabulary
They aren't restricted by Police force areas & tend to work around relevant sites across the country. They do have general powers of arrest.
Unlike most Police the latter two are often heavily armed with weapons ranging from sidearms to assault rifles.
What happened to me is I was arrested by my local force then waited 14 hours in the cell for the other force to come and interview me. Interview took 5 minutes and was released. We joked that they now had to drive back but least they were on overtime. It turns out, they had to make sure I was arrested so they could come down. They couldn't come down, arrest me then interview me at a local station in case I wasn't in.
They’d work in collaboration. So if Greater Manchester Police knew that there was someone who had committed a crime in Manchester was in Newcastle, they’d notify Northumbria Police who would then carry out the arrest. Depending on the situation, officers from Greater Manchester Police may travel up and be present when that arrest takes place.
In large scale events, officers from other forces can sometimes be drafted in to support the local police force in the policing of the event.
No, nothing is stopping a cop from Newcastle arresting someone anywhere in England and Wales as they have a warrant card which gives them the power to do so. However, typically there is an agreement to let the local police force make arrests.
I remember watching an episode of Road Wars years ago where they stopped a fleeing car between two force areas so had to work out which force should take the detainee into custody.
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