[Hardware Canucks] The Best Air Coolers for a 9800X3D, 7800X3D & 5800X3D
Posted by kikimaru024@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 104 comments
Posted by kikimaru024@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 104 comments
Healthy_BrAd6254@reddit
9800X3D allcore 38dBA - at 5:07
Jeep-Eep@reddit
We could tell from that the Fuma revision is I think more then a year MIA. Yeah, Scythe's product strategy is a mess ATM, but it makes sense to cancel that design when the Magoroku is liable to soundly beat it in its own niche.
Not to mention the outside chance of a Ninja revival in the face of CAMM2.
mechkbfan@reddit
It's crazy to me anyone would spend 4x as much to get D15 G2 for ~2c difference.
If you care about value for money, almost every other option is better
If you care about performance, (Artic) AIO
nanonan@reddit
Calling it a scam is just plain wrong though, while expensive it is a superb cooler.
Healthy_BrAd6254@reddit
While technically true that legally they are safe, I do consider paying >4x and getting basically the same performance and socket longevity as a $35 cooler to be a scam.
The same way I wouldn't pay $500 for an oil change in my car. But you do you.
nanonan@reddit
You're not getting the same service, support or the same quality of fans. Noctua are expensive, yes, but they are quite up front about it, they aren't scamming anyone.
Healthy_BrAd6254@reddit
You get a better service by being able to just buy multiple new ones whenever you want a different color or whenever a new one comes out, and still come out cheaper lol
Much better service. In fact, the service is so good, you are even able to spend that money on other things. Yeah, they give you the freedom like that. Spend $35 on the cooler, get the same performance, better compatibility, AND they let you spend the remaining $115 on anything. Spend it on games, a better CPU, better monitor, whatever. Best service.
VastTension6022@reddit
you could say the same about gold cables
mechkbfan@reddit
Superb sure, but so is everything else at 1/4 the price
kikimaru024@reddit (OP)
Keep in mind this was tested on the AMD AM5 8-core X3D chips.
On their Intel i9-13900K system, only DeepCool Assassin IV VC could beat NH-D15 G2 (though admittedly FSP MP7 & TR Royal Pretor 130 came close).
Newer-gen AIOs have caught up to Arctic's brute-force (38mm radiator) approach with better fans & pumps.
mechkbfan@reddit
Cheers, I havent really paid attention to AIO's for long time and when saw the Artic value proposition and was super impressed
Dasboogieman@reddit
It's a small thing but Noctua do send you free mounting brackets and fan mounts if you ask. This means that you are very likely to be able to keep the unit between CPU socket changes.
The only time I felt the Noctua was not keeping up with longevity was the D14 post Kaby lake. The Intel nuclear reactors that followed basically relegated the D14 to a temporary solution until some gruntier cooling can be done.
Healthy_BrAd6254@reddit
"free mounting brackets" that you paid $115 extra for
Meanwhile it costs like $7 from Thermalright
mikami677@reddit
People will also talk about the longevity of the Noctua fans, but you could get the Thermalright and replace the fans later on with Noctua if the stock ones start making a weird noise or something, plus a new bracket and some fresh thermal paste, and it'd still be less than the NH-D15 G2.
YNWA_1213@reddit
The thermal efficiency of that AIO is kinda wild still with all the progress tower coolers have made. I wonder if it’s again the mounting situation or something.
rUnThEoN@reddit
Coolers work best when heatsocked since then they can transfer heat better to the ambient and cpu temp heavily on them being cool. Its just a case of more is better and a aio is mostly 1.5 times the size. Thats why 120mmm rads dont work except the increase in water volume and with it a later saturation.
Healthy_BrAd6254@reddit
A 140mm air cooler like the D15 G2 is going to see similar airflow as a 240mm AIO
Your idea doesn't work
rUnThEoN@reddit
Compares 2x140fan/finstack vs 2x120fan/finstack and is surprised the aircooler does better...
Sir, your math doesnt work out.
Healthy_BrAd6254@reddit
I am saying an air cooler does WORSE, which is the point
The fans on an air cooler are basically in series. It's not the same as having two in parallel.
Sorry, what's your point?
rUnThEoN@reddit
In that case you made no point and I never made one. I stated my perspective of physics.
Healthy_BrAd6254@reddit
lol
Initially you said "Its just a case of more is better and a aio is mostly 1.5 times the size"
I corrected you by saying a 240mm AIO is going to see about the same airflow as a 140mm air cooler.
240 AIOs don't have a significant advantage over 140mm dual tower coolers. The reason air coolers are worse is not due to the size.
YNWA_1213@reddit
120mm are great on big, bare die ironically. Kept my 250W 980 Ti at a ‘frosty’ 60C, also I’m like 90% sure the heat soak of the rad is what killed an rgb light in my fan.
Healthy_BrAd6254@reddit
I think it's a limitation of heatpipes
YNWA_1213@reddit
It must be: smaller dies = less surface area to jam more heat pipes into contact with the IHS hot points. Whereas a pump and water block sees continuous flow over a finstack that covers the majority of the surface area.
Healthy_BrAd6254@reddit
Even if you have a vapor chamber that covers the whole thing, it's still going to be worse.
I would guess that it has something to do with vapor chambers/heatpipes working by boiling the water. So if the water turns into steam (which is how heatpipes cool), it means that section is now insulated. So some percentage of the surface must always not have contact with water.
If ChatGPT is to be trusted, 150W is roughly 0.1 liter of steam per second that is being generated inside the vapor chamber/heatpipes and needs to be pushed through the sintered wick. That sounds significant.
jmlinden7@reddit
Why would you use ChatGPT to do math when wolframalpha exists and actually does math accurately?
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=heat+of+vaporization+of+100g+of+water
It takes 223kJ to vaporize 100g of water. So if you want to accomplish that in a single second, you need 223kW of power.
Healthy_BrAd6254@reddit
lol
I said 0.1 LITERS of steam. Not 0.1 KG of water. That's a difference of >1000x (heatpipe has lower pressure than atm), which is about right.
Why do people upvote stuff like this?
jmlinden7@reddit
Gases don't have a fixed volume, so it makes no sense to use a volume of gas for calculations, especially given that pressures and temperatures wildly vary in a heatpipe
Healthy_BrAd6254@reddit
this is so low IQ, I refuse to explain it
Ask ChatGPT. Very clearly it is smarter than you
Toojara@reddit
To be fair 0.1L of steam and 100g of water are completely different here. At 323K and 30 kPa (pure guess), that's 20 mg of evaporating water per second absorbing \~50W/s for the phase transformation. The values are not point on but it's on the right scale.
Healthy_BrAd6254@reddit
exactly
pressure and volume is highly temperature dependent, so rough guess must do
Pity_Pooty@reddit
It's not water in heatpipes. Not smart enough to correct people
TheFondler@reddit
But it is, tho.
Yebi@reddit
It is not. Nigerian princes are more trustworthy than LLMs
Healthy_BrAd6254@reddit
This is so dumb
I know the math/physics. I know if what ChatGPT is doing is wrong.
You're the kind of guy that would never google anything or look it up on Wikipedia, because "it's not always right"
theholylancer@reddit
I now wonder, if a coiled heat pipe that allowed for more fluid inside the pipes help with this, ie more fluid so the base part is always immersed would help.
Or a massive vapor chamber with extra liquid storage on the side.
g1aiz@reddit
You could use a pump to create a flow of that extra liquid on top of the vapor chamber and cool down the liquid in a separate radiator that doesn't have to be on top of the CPU /s
Pity_Pooty@reddit
It's a limitation in thermal resistance realistically achievable in heat piped cooler base. In addition to that, heatpipes requires minimum dT to actually work, while water cooler basically linear in that matter
Yurilica@reddit
Thicker than standard radiator along with fans that deliver nice static pressure. It's a simple, but very efficient solution.
Larcya@reddit
I went with an AIO with my I7-8700K and I doubt I'm ever using an Air Cooler again thanks to just how quiet it is even during intense sessions. My Keyboard is louder.
GhostMotley@reddit
I wonder how the NH-D15 G2 would have fared if they used the LBC model and not the standard.
Healthy_BrAd6254@reddit
They found basically no difference on the 7600X and 7700X, and a 1-1.5°C difference on the 7950X. It doesn't really make sense to get the LBC or HBC, just the standard
MrDunkingDeutschman@reddit
Plus if you spend the insane amount of money on a Noctua one would assume you are interested in using it for a decade to get your money's worth.
Chances are if you buy into the Am5 version now, you're going to use that cooler for longer on a processor it wasn't meant to cool.
NonameideaonlyF@reddit
Regardless of budget if I had a choice between 3 CPU air coolers for my Ryzen 5 7600:
Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 Mini
Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120 SE V2
Thermalright Assassin King 120 SE
I want the overall best of the best possible and don't mind setting a fan curve. Keep in mind that I run a 1440p 240hz display and use AMD stock cooler to cool my ryzen CPU.
I'm also open to other options as well besides these 3 aforementioned coolers.
TheFondler@reddit
The Phantom Spirit 120 SE or the "real" Peerless Assassin 120 SE (which you haven't listed here) would be best for you. Both are a little overkill, and the PS is a little more overkill than the PA, but they are both pretty cheap and very good. Leave the other 2 options for people with major space constraints.
NonameideaonlyF@reddit
I have a Lian Li Lancool 2 Mesh and MSI B650 Tomahawk WiFi. Not sure if PS 120 SE will even fit inside a mid-tower ATX case, for this I might have to check out pcpartpicker website and then see and find out. So it goes like this PS 120 SE > PA 120 SE > PA 120 Mini > AK 120 SE
TheFondler@reddit
I built a system for a friend a while back in that case with a Noctua NH-D15 in it. The cooler clearance is 176mm according to the Lian Li product page, and the Thermalright PA 120 is 155mm according to the listings I'm finding.
NonameideaonlyF@reddit
I just noticed while browsing for Thermalright coolers there's PA 120, PA 120 SE, PA 120 SE V2
Is there any difference between these 3 different variants in terms of temps, noise, build quality, heat dissipation or anything else I should know?
TheFondler@reddit
Thermalright makes multible versions of everything, and it's incredibly annoying to track. They are probably the only ones that know the differences between all of it. Honestly, I think it's part of an intentional attempt to confuse consumers and flood the market. They make good coolers right now, but I really don't think they are exactly an "ethical" company.
I think the PA 120 SE is the one that most of the testing has been done on, so that's the one I would go with.
VenditatioDelendaEst@reddit
Consider the counterfactual where they make design changes and keep the same product name. The internet would hop on their outrage ponies about that too, probably moreso.
Jeep-Eep@reddit
They also have QA problems as well.
Jeep-Eep@reddit
TBH, I'd wait for results on those coolermasters and other designs, I do NOT trust TR QA.
cheekynakedoompaloom@reddit
at a glance im not sure what makes mini mini but any of thermalrights 120mm fan dual towers is overkill for a 7600. pick the one you like the looks of.
seatux@reddit
Single 120mm tower also plenty. My 5700x just on a DP AK400 is well under 65c at load.
Tuuuuuuuuuuuube@reddit
height, 135mm on the mini vs 155 on the regular ones
robertchenca@reddit
I’m running my D15 since 6600k all the way to 9800x3d. Money well spent
supilami@reddit
Also using my d15 since 6700k onto 9800x3d, with mountings for am5 from noctua for free
robertchenca@reddit
I even bought the mounting kit for AM4->AM5 and just noticed they are the same
DarthV506@reddit
Switched to a PS120 when I moved from a 5900x to 9800x3d. Why? D15 made it almost impossible to do hardware changes without taking the cooler off. The 8 PIN CPU power connectors were particularly difficult to remove.
Also doesn't help that I have a couple 140mm exhaust fans on the top of my case :P
Igoruss@reddit
My U14S outlived 3-4 platforms since s1155 and still rocks on ryzen 5600
robertchenca@reddit
Air cooling rocks
Jeep-Eep@reddit
I am very looking forward to benches of the MP9, Magoroku and Gladius.
free2game@reddit
Intel's decline in market dominance has really put a hurting on the AIO market.
Jeep-Eep@reddit
And it's going to be potentially further hurt by CAMM2 proliferation, as it makes 140 and above fans and fin arrays more viable, though this may be offset if AMD repaces the IO dies and the improved performance from that does result in a bit more heat.
sdns575@reddit
Hi also with new Intel cpus you can cool them with AIO setting PL1 and PL2 to 200W with performance loss of 2,5% or 180W with perf loss of ~5%
I made some test some days ago with my 285k with AIO and going from 250w to 200w cpu temp goes down of ~5° C on the hottest core and ~9° C with 180W
VenditatioDelendaEst@reddit
At least on my 265K, the power-limit-following algorithm is pretty stupid. Especially bumping against PL2, the CPU rapidly changes voltage/frequency, pissing away its energy budget by boosting aggressively during periods of light load instead of saving up for lean times. And maybe this is just an artifact of sampling rate, but it seems like the PMU asks for more voltage headroom when doing this than it does when cruising at a fixed clock frequency limit.
Also, I've got one P-core that needs way more voltage than the others at the high end of the V-F curve. If that core is allowed to imagine it might boost, it bumps up the VccIA request for the whole package and increases DLVR losses everywhere.
What seemed to work best for was using the 8-core turbo limit as a coarse knob for TDP in parallel batch jobs, and the 7-core turbo as the control for light-load efficiency. PL1/PL2 are set high enough to stay out of the way. Then I put the piss core's turbo limit another 100 MHz below the 8-core turbo, to reduce DLVR losses.
Hopeful_Chemistry591@reddit
you forget the epyc line , with 3d v cache up to 1,1, Gb , the 9384X for example have 786 Mb of 3dvcache , don't know if the nemez cheat on cpu cache ramdisk can be ported with nommu on linux but cool . for that watercooled : sivlerstone X360-SP5
bizude@reddit
These gaming framerate benchmarks make no sense. Unless the CPU is operating at TJMax, it ain't gonna matter. All of those results are essentially margin of error.
SoTOP@reddit
You explained yourself why they showed those benchmarks.
jmlinden7@reddit
So if all of the tested coolers allow you to hit max framerates, then why not just go with the one that's cheapest/quietest?
Occulto@reddit
You need to ask people buying unnecessarily expensive coolers that question.
calcium@reddit
I always roll my eyes when someone on r/buildapc has some $5k machine specced out and has something like a $300 360mm AIO thinking it’s going to make a difference in gaming on a 9800X3D. 🙄
Occulto@reddit
At least someone like that is probably guilty of sorting by most to least expensive and buying "the best."
I roll my eyes at the "gut feel" builder. They can't tell you why running a CPU 30 degrees below throttling is bad, but they're "just not comfortable" with those temps, which is why they're convinced they need to spend an obscene amount of money on cooling and why they'll argue til they're blue in the face why their preferred thermal paste is "superior".
Bonus if they complain about "heat degradation" as if they're honestly intending to keep using their current hardware in 20 years time.
fmjintervention@reddit
The people want water coolers! I flip PCs for a side hustle/beer money, and a $70 240mm water cooler is a huge selling point. I ask everyone that buys a PC from me "what are you going to use this PC for?" and "why did you choose to buy this PC?" and a lot of people say something like "I liked the water cooler to keep the CPU cool while gaming". Most common CPUs I'm using are Ryzen 5600 or 7600 depending on the price point, which are 65W chips. A water cooler is completely ridiculous overkill for those CPUs, a $30 single tower cooler would be plenty. Yet the people believe they need a water cooler for a 65W chip! Whatever, the customer is always right.
Noreng@reddit
Because the better cooler brings 1% higher cinebench R23 results, and that's going to make a "huge" difference to your experience
Vaguswarrior@reddit
Bingo.
Noreng@reddit
Precision Boost tapers off slightly as temperature increases, so there are still small benefits to getting operating temperature down for a 7800X3D for example.
Are you going to notice if a 7800X3D is running at 4.5 GHz instead of 4.8 GHz? Not very likely
quattro_quattro@reddit
Why would running the benchmarks inside a T.J. Maxx make a difference? (this is a joke)
imKaku@reddit
I’m curious if running a 400W+ GPU in the same case would impact the results and cause a bigger variance. Running it with room temperature air is quite different then just looking on the results individually.
TwinHaelix@reddit
Phantom Spirit 120 continues to be undisputed high-performance value king
Buckwheat469@reddit
I got this for my son's 9800X3D and it works great so far. The only downside is the fan normally sits a tiny bit too low when taller memory is installed. You have to move the fan up slightly, which is really easy, but it may change the air flow.
imKaku@reddit
Same here, it would be nice to know how actually this impacts the performance. Although, it might be migated by just moving the front fan to the back?
I wish they made a slightly taller version.
Buckwheat469@reddit
We couldn't move it to the back because the VRM heatsink got in the way too.
imKaku@reddit
Oof that’s a shame. Unsure how the clearance is with my mobo back there
Kamishini_No_Yari_@reddit
Yeah I had to do that on mine but I haven't noticed any issues at all in a year of having it
ARVINLOCOx@reddit
I did the same thing be my cpu kept reaching 90s under load. Swapped to a corsair AIO and have even seen 80 under load
Kamishini_No_Yari_@reddit
Damn, that sucks. I'll keep a closer eye on my temps from now on. Thanks for sharing
calcium@reddit
I amazingly found this same cooler earlier this year for $25 and snapped it up. It’s replacing the stock cooler wraith cooler that came with my AM4 CPU that has been seeing some throttling issues. It’s complete overkill for my tiny 65W CPU but the next decent CPU cooler I could get was actually more expensive than the Phantom Spirit 120.
Lava39@reddit
I got the blacked out one. Less price to performance but whatever. It looks bad ass in my opinion.
enesup@reddit
Why would the Peerless Assasin 120 be better than the 140? Doesn't the 140 have bigger fans (and thus more airflow?)
kikimaru024@reddit (OP)
They tested with Phantom Spirit 120 vs Peerless Assassin 140.
PS120 has 7 heatpipes, PS140 has 6.
IlFlacco@reddit
I still have a noctua d14 with my 5800x3d. It outlived alot of cpus (2500k 4.7ghz, fx8350 4.9ghz, 2600k 5ghz, r5 3600).
TheFumingatzor@reddit
It's always Noctua DH15. If somebody's perfected air coolers, it's Noctua with Noctua DH15 and DH14.
godfrey1@reddit
what year is it
nanonan@reddit
It did fall behind in the gaming tests. It's a great cooler but these days has serious competition that is usually less than half the price.
_Ganon@reddit
The only thing about the DH15 is how massive it is. I had to skip my top center motherboard screw because it was physically impossible to get a screwdriver to it. But I do love it.
emeraldamomo@reddit
AMD recommends liquid cooling for the 9800X3D- it is certainly a lot quieter!
epihocic@reddit
If you're using negative offset, which you really should, it's completely unnecessary. Phantom spirit will be whisper quiet.
rubiconlexicon@reddit
Unnecessary yes, completely no. I have my 9800X3D CO fully dialed in per-core but I'm still thermally limited (rather than the ideal of being FIT or max boost clock-limited) in heavy MT workloads on a D15 at a fan RPM that I consider acceptable. Not that I actually care, since hardly any perf is being left on the table.
kikimaru024@reddit (OP)
Any cooler will be whisper quiet if you just learn how to set a fan curve.
Plank_With_A_Nail_In@reddit
Can you link to where AMD recommends liquid cooling?
FragrantGas9@reddit
https://www.amd.com/en/products/processors/desktops/ryzen/9000-series/amd-ryzen-7-9800x3d.html
On the official AMD product page.
seatux@reddit
I just bought the Assassin IV VC Vision to see this, the pain.
LLMprophet@reddit
I put a Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120 on my 9800x3d and it works great in a Lancool217.