Obviously the V8 makes this car stand out more in today's world, but to make a case for the straight-six: V8 E39s use steering boxes, not racks. The turbocharged car would ha e been sportier.
BMW, at the time, was very anti-FI. The responsiveness of NA was more natural and they believed it was a low tech way to make power and was unrefined due to turbo lag. Many manufacturers were not like this but initially BMW was pretty stern about sticking to NA.
In fact, when BMW went to turbocharged 4 cylinders (F3x gen) and 6 cylinders (LCI E9x with the N54), purists lost their goddamn mind especially dropping the NA I6 for a turbo 4. But given advances in the tech and stricter fuel and emission standards, it's now ubiquitous across the line up and very well regarded. Granted the N54 wasn't the most reliable out there but it laid the foundation that led to the beloved B58.
Even so if you look at N55 and also next generation "beloved B58" dyno graphs, from around 5500RPM to 7000RPM it's just a flat line. That's very unfortunate.
If i'm not mistaken, back in the day when turbocharging was rare and expensive it seemed much cooler to have a high horsepower turbo than a big displacement NA block.
As someone around for the fast/furious era, yup. LS1s were cool but boost was super cool, hence my confusion when I see natural aspiration called out as a feature on cars, haha!
Agree, steering has a very 90s feel to it on center with the steering box.
That said the V8 is pretty bulletproof because it’s such a low strung engine. A turbo I6 today probably would have aged very poorly.
I think the car works better as a brute anyway though. Plus the steering box is one of those things that journalists liked to complain about but doesn’t really matter in the real world. It’s still very agile on the back roads and perfectly composed as a daily driver.
So many people complain about steering boxes but it really does not make that much of a difference in normal driving. I say this as somebody that has owned a 530i, a 540i, and an M5. If the suspension is in good shape they all drive pretty well.
Agree with you, but they do suck a bit as they get old and wear. More joints/points of failure, and the boxes themselves wear out and there is no way to rebuild/replace them.
Given how fragile their cooling system components were, it was for the best. Then again their V8 valve stems and timing chain guides weren't any better.
Whilst a V8 has added complexity thanks to having 2 banks, at least you just double something you’re already designing once (essentially).
Whereas turbochargers introduce a whole new set of complexities of their own, and now the engine must deal with much higher cylinder pressures and overall hear generation. Not to mention that getting air:fuel ratios right is not as simple as before.
The pros typically outweigh the cons in most scenarios when it comes to turbocharging though. As long as it’s engineered right in the first place.
Don't forget, this was the 90s. Most turbos back then had more lag and ran on vacuum systems, including the wastegate. I imagine that if BMW had used a turbocharged I6, most wouldn't have survived since turbos require proper maintenance, not whatever the 5th owner was doing in 2012.
Wouldnt say that. BMW had quite a bit of experience with turbos back then since they built loads of diesels and a few petrol cars with turbos back then. Also Alpina used a twin turbo i6 in the E34 and that worked really good
Oh yeah back then it would have been even harder than today. What i’m saying is that turbos are only so common today after lots and lots of engineering - but once solved they become pretty good at improving efficiency and gaining power.
There are definitely negatives and tradeoffs though. I’m certainly not saying that BMW would have been better off ditching the V8 for the turbo. Like i said, it’s easier to make a good NA V8 than a good turbo engine anyway.
* BMW in the 90s and 00s insisted on NA engines, especially M-cars (IIRC it was Albert Biermann).
* the S62 was built from the M62, so I think it was easier to upgrade an existing platform vs. developing a turbocharger system for an inline 6, which didn't exist in BMW's inline 6s at the time.
I don’t think turbo technology was there yet in the early 2000s. Even despite some of the V8 issues, I’d argue this is one of the most reliable M5 generations(The E34 might be a bit more reliable). The E60 had unreliable transmissions, and needed rod bearings as wear items, the F10 loved to blow valve stem seals, and still had timing chain wear issues, and the F90 has been proven to be mostly reliable but turbos always add complexity to a motor. The G90 we shall see but I’m sure it’s a tank(heh).
Think about how unreliable BMWs first turbo I6 attempt was(N54). Nothing that would kill the car but lots of stuff that would stop it from running. Still super costly
I think that's just BMW things.
Toyota has reasonably reliable turbos, turbo diesels (Shocking I know) in the 90s. No one says a 1/2JZ unreliable.
BMW having to stick different steering on the V8 models compared to the sixes I feel is a minor downside
>No one says a 1/2JZ unreliable.
Nobody has a stock 2JZ turbo system anymore. Everybody swaps to big singles inmediately. And if you've ever seen the stock intake flow diagram for one you'd probably make that decision too, knowing that your car is from the 90's.
I mean I'm not disputing that the 2JZ is an indestructible block, valvetrain, and internals, but all that complicated state-of-the-art two-stage 90's turbo plumbing? On like 2 models that sold maybe 10,000 units total with that turbo system? That almost everyone who owns one currently seems to have swapped to a big single turbo?
Color me skeptical. It's no SBC.
Oh me neither. Toyota makes reliable stuff, but once it’s been stress tested they won’t change it. If I ever need to do a turbo engine swap, I’d start off with either a BMW M50 or a 2JZ. But neither of them are gonna run a stock manifold. I’m gonna get the turbo packaged as close to the intake and exhaust manifold as possible.
Reliability is one thing, and I don’t think there’s anything bad about their first attempt either(the n54) most of the issues were normal bmw shit , but even early turbo technology had other drawbacks like turbo lag aka uneven power delivery.
Most bmw turbo motors do feel turbocharged but they aren’t scary to drive. There’s no crazy surge of torque that plagued early turbo designs, including the 2JZs, just flat power delivery. The turbo charged non M motors usually drop off power early as well, around 5k but I think S motors these days basically make power to redline
well the m5 also made like, 100hp more than the tt toyota i6's. sure they could handle more power aftermarket, but they didn't from toyota
its quite a bit easier to make a reliable turbodiesel i6 when you don't have to make any power, don't care for performance applications, and can keep the design the same for 30 years
Why can't bmw make plastic that isn't shit. Like every other manufacture has figured out how to make plastic that doesn't turn brittle in just 3 years. In fact every german car is plagued with shitty plastic. My A5 I broke on of the clips for the ignition coil as is tradition. But I still don't get why after decades they can't change it.
Valve stems aren’t a known issue on those S62s. That’s more of an issue with the next-next generation S63 motors. Which are also turbo charged.
The timing chain guides are basically a wear item at this point. Gotta do it every 150k miles if you do average servicing(oil change every 7k miles). Maybe 200k or so.
Ya it would’ve been a neat part of bmw history but also would’ve been a completely different personality. Also possibly not a great competitor to what AMG was producing in the same era, which was probably a big part of their decision to go with the S62 V8
Given how crappy the turbo technology was back then, I’m glad they put in a 5L V8. It sounds great, has great throttle response thanks to the ITB’s, and it’s aged very nicely unlike a lot of late 90’s turbo cars. The S62 feels like a race-inspired motor with instant response and a great sound, you’d lose all of that with turbos.
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My dad had the first E39 M5 in Utah. It was the dark blue with the blue inserts on the leather. He had the Dinan exhaust package. Our computer room above the garage shook every time he started it. Looking back now I can’t believe he let me take it to prom as a 16yo. Love you, dad!
Well guys, I present to you, that vision but in real life:
[https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1223413969524952/?ref=search&referral\_code=null&referral\_story\_type=post&tracking=browse\_serp%3A933fee3d-80d5-403a-9b83-2acc6f7b5cd4](https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1223413969524952/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A933fee3d-80d5-403a-9b83-2acc6f7b5cd4)
My father owned one, bought new in 2001. Beautiful car, BMW's finest hour in my opinion. I don't care for the looks of their current cars, so I drive Audi's.
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