Americans that have moved back to the USA recently, how is it?
Posted by OkSlip9273@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 209 comments
I'm not really an expat but I'm an american that moved to europe to finish my BA for cheap and now that I've just graduated I have no clue what to do. My initial plan was to move back to the USA after graduating to start my career but seeing the way things are in the country right now is seriously making me have doubts. I would much rather stay in Europe but getting a job that would be willing to sponsor me is proving to be impossible. My only choice would be to do a masters and get another study visa for a year or two but I'm terrified of finding myself in the same position that I am now where I have graduated again and still don't know what to do. I also thought about just going back to the USA for a year to work, save money and then move back to Europe for the MA but realistically speaking I'm sure I'll be stuck in the USA for years if I go back because the expenses in the u.s are so high that I don't see myself being able to save a lot. The current political administration is also a huge issues for me because I studied International Relations so going into federal was my initial plan when I decided to study this but the hiring freeze along with the political instability has made that plan go out the window for now.
So, those of you that have gone back to the usa, how is life there right now? Do you regret moving back? Has it been hard to adjust back to american life?
TwoHungryBlackbirdss@reddit
Moved back last year from Asia and have zero regrets. I live in a progressive city, make good money, and have a significant world of opportunities that have opened up to me since returning. Living somewhere queer-friendly and diverse, not to mention near my family is wonderful.
I know this sub is very anti-US (often with good reason), but I have zero regrets about returning
spicytomatilloo@reddit
Needed to read this as someone who is likely moving back too in a couple of months. Just trying to make the call.
TwoHungryBlackbirdss@reddit
The months before I returned were terrifying - DM me if you ever need advice!
The first probably six months back were a bizarre, messy blur, but I couldn't be prouder and happier with my choice. When you know you know, it's time to leave
spicytomatilloo@reddit
Thank you, I'm early in the interviewing process. It's nerve-wracking because I live in Switzerland, where it is very hard to come to live, so it is a big deal to give up. Like you said, when it's time it's time.
Marple1102@reddit
I'm considering moving back from Australia. Did you end up making the decision to move back?
spicytomatilloo@reddit
I did and honestly, I am so much happier.
Dear-Ad6946@reddit
Are you from Chicago or Illinois? I’m from St Louis, have been living in Switzerland for the past 15 years, and have always dreamt of moving back to the US. Chicago always felt like the best choice of city for me to be close to family in STL, in a urban city with good public transportation and ability to walk in neighborhoods, good cultural scene, and the lakeside. How has your experience been, especially with everything happening right now with the current administration?
TwoHungryBlackbirdss@reddit
I am from the West coast originally and have been living in Chicago for about a year and a half, now. I've lived all over the country/world, and am baffled at how much I fucking love this city.
Daily amenities are good, rent is affordable for living in a huge urban area, there's tons to do here and communities available catering to whoever you are. No car and that hasn't been an issue, and every morning I leave my $1500 1br and walk to the beach and have my coffee overlooking the lake. How many cities can you do that in?
Happy to answer any specific questions but based on what you've said, i can't recommend chicago enough. Yeah the winters suck and there are some sketchy neighborhoods, but both of those issues are mitigatable. I can't speak to the current issues if you're Hispanic, but my neighborhood is very diverse and has a VERY strong "ICE gtfo" culture. Who knows what the future will bring, but i couldn't be happier living here
illegal_fiction@reddit
I agree. Moved back to California from Europe last year. No regrets.
Scooby-Doobie-Doo1@reddit
I'm actually thinking of doing the same in December. Move back to California from Spain. The only thing holding me back is the current political climate and the orange man.
illegal_fiction@reddit
I moved back to CA (Bay Area) from Spain, and don't regret it. I missed California so much, and spending time away has made me so appreciative of a lot I took for granted before. The political climate is real, but there are a lot of opportunities right now to organize and fight back. In Spain, I felt like I had no power, here at least I can try to make a difference.
Scooby-Doobie-Doo1@reddit
I think I'd move to Oakland, so maybe we'd be neighbors 💁🏼♂️ Your last sentence hit it right on the nose. How long were you in Spain before moving back?
illegal_fiction@reddit
I’m in Berkeley, so definitely neighbors. :) I was in Spain for 2.5 years. I watched Airbnb take over the city I was living (Málaga) and it felt very strange knowing the Bay was negatively affecting the city I was living thousands of miles away. What happens in California has an effect on the entire world. The Bay is definitely intense (the distribution of wealth is real, the homelessness, the tech money, the cost of groceries, the cost of everything), life was a lot simpler in many ways in Spain, but I feel like at least I’m back in the game now.
Scooby-Doobie-Doo1@reddit
Yeah I've been here 5 years now and am in Barcelona. Its hard to be part of the community here, even if I'm being a good citizen, paying taxes, learning the language. Etc. Its become quite exhausting feeling guilty all the time, when I just came here to have s better life balance 😬
Scooby-Doobie-Doo1@reddit
I appreciate you and it's nice hearing an experience from someone in a similar situation
Professional_Cow_274@reddit
Hey, wondering if you’re still feeling zero regrets given how things have been ramping up with ice? I’m living in abroad currently and had been planning on moving back to the Midwest (Detroit specifically) in February/March. I could try and work out a job to stay abroad longer if needed, but even with the current state of things I’m leaning towards still returning to the US. For reference I’m trans and Latino (though for what it’s worth I’m arguably white-passing and a citizen). I feel torn cause before I left I was fairly active in the local community and I want to return to be of any service that I can. For better or worse the US is my home and no place feels the same and I want to be there. But idk if maybe that’s just stupid, idealistic thinking at the current moment?
Scooby-Doobie-Doo1@reddit
Sort of in the same boat, but currently in Spain wanting to go back to California. I don't know I'm being stupid. Idealistic thinking either given the current situation. It was bad when I left, but not like it is now. So where have you gotten in your process? Like the other people have been saying, sometimes you just know it's time to go back. Good or bad, you wanna be there. But again, I do t know if that's stupid and idealistic 😬🫠
HappyCamper2121@reddit
May I ask what city/metro you live near?
TwoHungryBlackbirdss@reddit
Chicago!
downtime37@reddit
Good luck to the Bears this year, you've got a great head coach.
signed Lions fan. :)
MammothTeacher2463@reddit
Oh man thank you for sharing! I am hoping to move back around Chicago (last US city I lived in) in about 2 years.
NYColette@reddit
Love Chicago. Such a great town and cool people.
Desperate_Quest@reddit
As much as there are pros in the usa, I'll probably end up staying in East Asia because im a teacher and can actually make money here lmao
Academic-Balance6999@reddit
We moved back to the US (Northern California) from Switzerland less than one week ago. People seem fine. Everyone is friendly and open in that American way. Inflation is real— prices are much higher than 6 years ago. We will get a car but hoping we can have a “car lite” lifestyle in our walkable suburb. Don’t have a job yet and the market is slow, but I’m sure I’ll land something eventually.
Life is a lot more than headlines.
Economy_Chicken_2201@reddit
Probably the first calm and practical response based in personal experience.
wheel_wheel_blue@reddit
Why did you leave Switzerland if I can ask? I’m curious because apparently is the best country in the world…
Academic-Balance6999@reddit
Switzerland is a lovely country and I enjoyed living there. It just wasn’t my forever place. Basically hubs and I decided to move back to the US before my kids hit their teens. We may move back to Europe after retirement but it’ll be someplace with better food than CH.
Training-Cod-4043@reddit
How was the language barrier? Did you experience racism?
Academic-Balance6999@reddit
I am white so did not experience racism but colleagues of mine (Asian American) ran into some issues.
The area I lived in had lots of people with good English but people were always pleased if you made a good effort in German.
calamirkat@reddit
We are in Geneva right now. It’s so different from the German area. I really like it. It’s temporary and we might end up in Provence for jobs.
wheel_wheel_blue@reddit
Make sense, all valid reasons.
brass427427@reddit
You are braver than me --- 'don't have a job yet'.
Academic-Balance6999@reddit
I got a payout after a restructuring so I should be fine for a year.
Tardislass@reddit
Are you ready to go into more debt to get Masters just to stay in the US? I'm going to be honest here and say that Europe is slowly going down the same anti-immigrant, economic decline that the US is. In fact, Europe's economic outlook is worse than the US..
Despite what Reddit will have you believe, there are parts of the US that can be pleasant to live in, people live and work and don't subscribe to the MAGA BS. And there are parts of Europe where people talk about migrants being scum and endorse right wing politics.
If you have family to come back to, I'd come back and see if I could get a job. Build up some savings and then think about moving back. That way you can gain some experience that might help you with jobs overseas.
Cute_Conversation_97@reddit
Europe isn’t becoming fascist. It’s ticking right, but then it ticks left. Parliamentary systems keep this in check.
Forkinshrdr@reddit
Odd. Did OP mention their politics? How did that get brought up? And you’re calling Europe “anti-immigration.” You’re just making all these unsolicited attacks. I would describe Europe as crime adverse (more than the US) not “anti-immigration.” They want none in their countries and some are having difficulty enforcing policies that protect citizens.
The economic decline is due to slower innovation in industry and a bit of a lack of skilled workers. However most in Europe have a a Masters and above with multiple languages. They take education seriously and provide resources for their citizens to obtain it.
calamirkat@reddit
No. I’m supporting your argument and saying that people who want to feel good simply say things like racist or anti immigrant without thinking about the mismatch of cultures and the costs to the indigenous culture.
calamirkat@reddit
This is an important middle ground argument that people who want to make themselves feel good are unwilling to make.
Forkinshrdr@reddit
So you’re a psycho liberal I take it. Great. Carry on.
spaghetios@reddit
totally true. Look at yesterday's announcement by Trump & EU on trade deal which will be a real shocker to EU economies and EU taxpayers. Students will have reduced services and housing will be more expensive.
LukasJackson67@reddit
The USA is economically declining?
taterfiend@reddit
People on reddit are out of their minds. The economic decline is happening EVERYWHERE. US is still best for many careers in white collar or advanced industries.
LukasJackson67@reddit
Work/life balance?
Medical bankruptcy?
Guns?
Lack of affordable healthy food?
I have read all of those listed many times
Shigglyboo@reddit
I would say so. I work for a US company and we've been slow for the last year or so. got much worse over the last six months. It's getting a little better this month, but much worse than the last few years.
with the value of the dollar tanking I get less and less money. I don't know what half these people are talking about. I guess I went to school for the wrong things (Audio engineer / Business). I had to leave because I couldn't afford to survive. Healthcare/childcare, etc., and then not being able to find a good job. I would consider the US if I could find a well paying job. But I can't. And then there's the affordability. A buddy bought a normal house in New Jersey and it cost him a million.
LukasJackson67@reddit
That is the issue…New Jersey.
Why do you think so many people in New Jersey move to South Carolina?
The whole “US dollar is tanking” is arguably good for the U.S. economy
Shigglyboo@reddit
Yeah he’s moving. lol. Not to South Carolina though.
I thought they were crazy for buying before renting and living in the area. Now they want to live closer to family for a while. And then move abroad again.
I don’t see how the dollar value going down is good. It literally means instead of getting 900€ for $1,000 I get 800€. So thats money being taken directly out of my pocket. Trump has effectively taken money from my family. And I don’t make much to begin with.
yunhua@reddit
The US is actively following a fascist playbook, in addition to skyrocketing costs. If you're already out of the US, recommend to stay away for the time being.
spaghetios@reddit
so is Europe. And costs in Europe are going up, will continue to rise as tariffs and austerity go into play in order to absorb Ukraine war costs. Europe is not at all cheap; especially if you live in a large city which is where most jobs are. And flying back to US to see family will add to costs. But read up on current governments in Europe and how far to the right they are. Especially Germany, the UK, Italy have very far right governments limiting civic rights and France looks to soon elect LePen's party. In many ways Europe is further to the right than urban US areas like NYC, Chicago, SF, Boston, and university towns.
Cute_Conversation_97@reddit
This is talking points nonsense. Europe becoming fascist is doomsday talk. It’s not.
The multiparty parliamentary system largely keeps that in check. Europe continues to flirt with fascism — mostly import of ideology from the USA.
If Britain goes Right, France goes left. If Italy goes right, the Netherlands goes Left. And then they have to make coalitions.
spicytomatilloo@reddit
People do not understand just how severe the financials can be on this continent. Like low wages with high cost of living. I live in Switzerland where the salaries are far higher, but if you are not Swiss or EU in some industries, good luck trying to get a job or change jobs.
LesnBOS@reddit
Yes but they are going to be squashed as well. I’m in Boston and our primary 2 industries are being gutted partially as punishment. We are in the 5th stage of fascism and next year Voight will be making the Christian nationalist changes mark my words. The rollout of project 2025 is staged. It’s only been 6 months. The national abortion ban, gay marriage repeal, etc- will be in effect within the next 12 months- the oppression of women, minorities, and democrats is next.
Both__@reddit
This. You’re lucky to be in Europe - stay and enjoy it as long as possible.
hermione_clearwater@reddit
Haven’t moved back yet but plan to in the next 5 years, US salaries are upwards of double to triple European salaries and while money isn’t everything it’s not nothing.
LukasJackson67@reddit
Work/life balance?
Medical bankruptcy?
Bodoblock@reddit
Candidly, if you're casually contemplating jobs in Europe vs. the United States, you don't need to worry that much about medical insurance.
I would be willing to be that my health insurance here in the US is better than any public health care in Europe. Work/life balance is another issue though. Americans often do just work more, though it's entirely sector-dependent.
European consultants, for example, aren't exactly living lives of leisure. They get worked hard and get paid way less.
astroKelsinator@reddit
You must not have any health issues, my guy. I live in NYC, and my healthcare since coming back to the US from Canada has been atrocious and riddled with incredibly long wait times... and I have "good" health insurance through my academic job. It's laughable that anyone claims that a fully private healthcare system can be better than a socialised one.
RandomCollection@reddit
Is the US situation that bad? Many people in Canada are unhappy with the wait times.
astroKelsinator@reddit
Yes. It is really that bad. Canada (in my own experience - and I have a lot of health issues) was a much better experience for wait times alone. I lived in Vancouver where there was good access to healthcare... and now I live in NYC where there is meant to be good access to healthcare. Experience was leaps and bounds better in Canada.
JohannaSr@reddit
I don't know about other countries, but I do know about U.S. and if you are sick, it's not a good place to live. Even a little sick is expensive here in the U.S.
Mean__MrMustard@reddit
Work/life is a valid argument and depends on how high you value it.
Medical bankruptcy is not really an issue if you’re in spheres where your wage is 2-3x of European salaries. That’s usually really good jobs with good insurance and (nearly) full coverage.
happyhiking123@reddit
Yes - but that is super short-sighted. My husband is at the top of his field and was making nearly 200k before recently getting laid off. Hasn’t been able to find work here in the US because the state of things is THAT bad. We are currently paying 4K per month for the most basic medical insurance you can buy to literally just cover emergencies. And even that was nearly impossible to get (had to wait months to get it). Also if you have a family and a mortgage, 200k does not go very far in the US in you live in the northeast or CA (really some of the only progressive places left to live).
Long story short we are moving to Europe because we literally cannot afford to stay in the US.
Polardragon44@reddit
4K per month for very basic ..... is very bizarrely high.
If nothing else you'll definitely find it cheaper in another state. You wouldn't have to move out the country.
But do you get that off the health care marketplace and it was 4K??? Have you called an insurance agent that can shop around for you?
Academic-Balance6999@reddit
Agree— I returned to the US without a job so we bought insurance off the exchanges. We bought “platinum” because my husband has T1D and needs expensive meds and care. For our family of 4 the highest “platinum” level 3K per month. $4K/ month for “basic” for two people (?) seems fishy.
FYI we were paying about 1800CHF / month in CH which is about $2200 at current exchange rates. So US insurance is about 25% more expensive but I think we’re getting (slightly) superior care. (Don’t get me wrong medical care in CH is good but the doctors here seem more thorough and holistic.)
smooshfest@reddit
Could be paying for a family.
Polardragon44@reddit
I quite literally priced it out for a family of four In my high cost of living state for a basic plan no vouchers full price. It ranged between around 800 to $1,200 a month.
happyhiking123@reddit
What state and how many people? What is your income level? We don’t qualify for Medicaid or low income brackets because of a family trust that earns income but we have no access to.
blessingma@reddit
Really? I was under the impression tha a trust took everything out of your name so that you appeared to have nothing on paper. That's curious.
Polardragon44@reddit
Tell me if you find the resources if not I can try to help you out
happyhiking123@reddit
That’s really nice of you thank you. This is for CT. But we’re okay now because we’re moving to Denmark within the next few months.
Polardragon44@reddit
I did it for the state of Maryland a 200k household income for four people to adults and two minors .
The income is too high for any vouchers to kick in so this was the maximum price for each of these plans.
This is not Medicaid or any government insurance program this is simply through the health care marketplace aka Obamacare
https://www.marylandhealthconnection.gov/after-you-enroll/renewal/
LoverOfTabbys@reddit
W the big beautiful bill healthcare premiums for middle class families are only gonna go up
AlternativeIdeal1043@reddit
How are you paying $4k/month for basic insurance? That doesn’t make any sense. I paid $2k/month for a family of 5 for a really good silver plan.
happyhiking123@reddit
Different income bracket I guess? I’m not sure.
MammothTeacher2463@reddit
More people need to realize this. If you have a good job in the US and can moderate your expenses (ie not give into endless consumer culture and debt spending), you have the ability to save so much money compared to, say, those in a European country, and your employer probably provides benefits that rival those in Europe (think: great medical coverage and weeks upon weeks of PTO).
LoverOfTabbys@reddit
I don’t think you can save so much money in the US anymore unless you live in a very lcol area and have a high paying job
LukasJackson67@reddit
I would disagree. I live in a mcol area and I save money
MammothTeacher2463@reddit
It's highly dependent on your own situation, something like this can't be generalized to two data points
LukasJackson67@reddit
I agree.
I am just echoing what other people always say.
My insurance is far better than what Europeans have. I also have disability in case i cannot work.
Informal_Radio_2819@reddit
Work/life balance is much better in Europe. Zero argument.
Medical bankruptcy in US can happen if you're not insured. They can also happen in other high income countries, of course, if your health deteriorates to the point where you cannot work, and thus your income disappears.
In the US, a medical bankruptcy is exceedingly unlikely if you maintain health insurance coverage. As with everything in the US, poor and working class are the most vulnerable. Upper middle class and affluent are usually secure. FWIW the rate of uninsured in the United States had reached a record low by the end of last year. We shall see how things go as Trump's policies continue to take hold.
https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2024/demo/p60-284.html#:\~:text=Highlights,percent%20and%2036.3%20percent%2C%20respectively.
JohannaSr@reddit
See above, being sick in America is NNNOT good.
Informal_Radio_2819@reddit
It's fine for me. I have good insurance. Perhaps you don't. I wish all Americans had the coverage I do.
martinmaple@reddit
💯
hermione_clearwater@reddit
There is very little work/life balance in my field regardless of where you are and you mostly need private insurance here either way (if you want any sort of preventative care). I’m sure these things are better in countries that aren’t the U.K. though.
LukasJackson67@reddit
Oh I agree
LukasJackson67@reddit
Oh I agree
Kramnik_is_an_idiot@reddit
Yeah cuz the dollar is garbage right now
hermione_clearwater@reddit
Unrelated, I make 2-3x less than I did in a moderate U.S. city here going back to 2021 and that’s pretty standard. I’m a lawyer and the salaries are far less here regardless of exchange rates.
JustEmmi@reddit
If you’re 30 or younger you could consider a working holiday visa to stay abroad. The only one in Europe for US citizens is Ireland, but there’s also Australia, Singapore, South Korea, New Zealand, & Canada (this one is trickier).
I’m about to do the Aussie one. The US is a lot right now & I’m very ready for a break.
TheYankInAus98@reddit
Portugal and Austria are also options.
JustEmmi@reddit
Holy crap you’re right….in all my research these never popped up 😱
OkSlip9273@reddit (OP)
I've been thinking about doing the one in Ireland, I'm just hesitating because of the housing crisis they got going on
JustEmmi@reddit
That’s fair, but you can also always start in a hostel while you try to find something. That’s my plan in Australia, which is also having housing issues. But you also wouldn’t have to worry about sponsorship while you figure things out. You might need to come back to the US in the interim if you do decide to take that route. Best of luck with whatever you decide!
water5785@reddit
whats your line of work?
JustEmmi@reddit
I’m currently in admin, but have experience in medical, & hospitality. While in Australia I’m looking to be in the hospitality industry to knock out my 88 days for another year.
Pajamafier@reddit
beware of commenters like the above who seem to be living in the US and only in this subreddit forum to talk about how nice it would be to leave, without having had any real experience as an expat living abroad in Europe beyond some short term travel
astroKelsinator@reddit
I moved back at the end of 2023 after living in Canada for almost a decade... I regret it enormously for many reasons, one being that I no longer have job prospects here (I'm in academia, so we're not in too dissimilar a situation), which is one of the only reasons for people in my position to even move to the US in the first place. I regretted it immediately because of the culture and the cost (and I was living in Canada). I forgot how barbaric and cruel the healthcare system is... and then the political admin changed, and holy shite. People are being spirited away off the streets where I live currently.
I'm leaving the US again ASAP. I would highly recommend you stay in Europe if possible. It's where I've set my sights on (only because there aren't many jobs in Canada right now either due largely to what is happening in the US).
Brilliant-Arm-3648@reddit
apply to us companies with uk/eu offices or that allow you to work remotely. the us now is like living in a police state or 1930's germany.
LateKaleidoscope5327@reddit
There are so many variables—the biggest of which is your personality and preferences—that it's difficult to answer this question. I haven't lived in Europe recently (though I did 30 years ago), but I have family members who are expats and I have friends there. Some of the people who are answering that the US is a better bet financially are clearly people who have top qualifications and jobs.
Setting aside the politics, your financial position and well-being in the US are dependent on 1) where you live and 2) your job. People with top qualifications in tech fields, medical research, or finance get salaries well over $200K, excellent health insurance, and lots of vacation time. They can easily afford housing in the places in the US with the highest quality of life. With your bachelors degree in international relations, I'm sorry to say that you probably won't be in this category. Instead, you will be scrambling for entry-level jobs that offer crappy benefits. You won't be able to afford to live in the parts of the US with progressive politics and high quality of life unless you want to share a room in an apartment in a lousy neighborhood. Even then, you'll struggle to get by.
I have what most people consider a good job, though I make less than $200K, and I'm not in a lucrative field. My health insurance premium is around $1,600 a month to cover myself and my spouse, of which my employer pays half. So $800 comes out of my pay each month. That's nearly $10K a year. This insurance has a $4000 deductible. So I spend nearly $14,000 a year on healthcare if I have medical expenses of $4000 or more before insurance pays a penny. Income taxes and Social Security take $30K+ out of my pay. Living in the US, you will need a car. That costs thousands a month when you consider all the expenses. Then there is the cost of housing. I live in one of the "better" parts of the country, and it is not cheap.
Arriving with a BA in international relations from a foreign university, you are frankly going to have to scramble to get a gig that is better than a barista at Starbucks. And if you succeed in getting what will probably be a soul-crushing desk job, you will face all of the costs I mentioned.
Unless you are in one of the glamorous European cities (London, Paris...), your housing costs will be dramatically less there. Your medical costs will be almost nonexistent. If you are in a medium-sized or even a small city, you really won't need a car.
Then there are the politics. Everyday life hasn't changed much in the United States yet (unless you are a brown-skinned immigrant), but many of us fear a crackdown is coming once the 2026 elections are past. The fear is that those elections will be rigged or otherwise manipulated to cement a Republican vice-grip on power that will then permit drastic cuts in social welfare programs without consequences. Medicaid is set for drastic cuts that take effect just after the election that will shut down rural hospitals and many nursing homes. The social consequences will be brutal, but with a stranglehold on power, Republicans will be able to suppress any unrest, perhaps suspend the Constitution. Until it is clear what is going to happen politically, I feel it would be very risky to move to the United States permanently.
I would advise you instead to pursue graduate studies in Europe that lead toward employment there. Do some research to find out what qualifications will offer you a working visa. Choose a program that involves practica with local companies. Make sure you focus on mastering the local language. You probably won't pull this off in an English-speaking country because there's so much competition, and the economies of the UK and Ireland are not looking great right now.
OkSlip9273@reddit (OP)
Thank you so much for your comment, what you said about me probably not being able to land a good job with my job is absolutely true and something I'm aware of which is part of the reason why I'm so hesitant to move back. I'm very ambitious and have the typical american goals of working hard to land a good job, living in a big city, have my own place, etc. etc. but with the way things are looking right now all that just seems so unattainable with what I studied.
Spanish is my native language which will make it easier to do my master's in spain and then find a way to settle there after grad at least for a few years until I get citizenship so I'm leaning more towards this option. If that doesn't work out then I can always go back to the usa but at least I'll leave with an MA and hopefully a bit more work experience lol
LateKaleidoscope5327@reddit
If I were you, I'd stay in Spain. Sign up for a degree program that involves practical experience and that places you with employers for job experience. I'm not familiar with Spain's rules around working visas, but clearly people from Latin America settle there more or less permanently. You can too, especially with good qualifications. Maybe you should avoid, for now, places where tourists and retirees are driving up housing costs, along the Mediterranean coast and in Madrid. Once you are a bit more established in a career, you might be able to afford Madrid. Regional hubs like Sevilla or Bilbao might be a better bet for building a career while facing lower housing costs.
doepfersdungeon@reddit
Depends what you value. I for one wouldn't live in the US unless you threatened to kill me or my loved ones. But that's personal. I wouldn't want to drive everywhere, eat the shitty food, be miles from other cultures other than maybe Mexico, be surrounded by people who think carrying a gun is interesting and for all of Europe's issues to live under that administration.
Personally I would stay in Europe, do your masters, maybe learn the language of you haven't already and if your enjoying there really bed in an a create a home from.home with lasting friendships. If your allowed stay and work for a while, see out Donald and his maga knobheads and see what comes next.
Build up a bit of a nest egg and at some point sabatical and go home and test the job market / how you feel.
Yes wages are higher , but you may find that Europe is hard to give up after a while. Or you may be ready to leave. At the moment it sounds like neither which is why maybe you are in flux.
Where are you BTW?
OkSlip9273@reddit (OP)
I'm in Portugal and tbh I hate it, I'm beyond ready to leave this country but at the same time not ready to give up Europe if that makes sense, just looking to relocate if I decide to stay in europe which just makes everything more complicated lol
doepfersdungeon@reddit
Interesting.. Whats up with Portugal....?
renotory@reddit
Amen to the shitty food! The US is a foodie hell unless you happen to live in a cosmopolitan, urban area.
ShiningReflection@reddit
Healthy food also is very pricey but also being degraded by corporate food interests lobbying to downgrade standards
goobagabu@reddit
I recently came back from 4 years in Spain. I'm going back to school, getting a job and spending much needed quality time with my family and friends. I was worried the politics was gonna get to me but honestly.. I haven't even thought about it since coming back.
Living abroad got too heavy for me and I decided to make the move. It was a really difficult decision but ultimately the best!
ledledripstick@reddit
Stay in EU and do the master's degree! No matter what you will have more options at the end of that degree!
water5785@reddit
depends what the degree is in , surley employers value work more?
_ideefixe@reddit
You need to look closely at your personal situation to compare cost of living and income/savings potential. I moved from an HCoL area of the US to an HCoL area of the EU. My salary decreased by 50% but my expenses only went down by about 25% so it was much harder to save cash living in Europe.
The cost of housing in particular was shockingly expensive relative to local salaries. Many household and consumer goods are the same price or higher vs. the US as well. However lower prices and/or subsidies on some other services like child care, higher education, and transportation could still make those trade-offs favorable depending on your needs.
In general people seemed to accept lower salaries in exchange for the stronger job security and social safety net, but that limits your ability to build savings/wealth as an individual.
matt585858@reddit
I agree.
For us- wages have been much better here, particularly take home; the cost rise is material but our lifestyle is better and we save much more. But that's our variables, others could be way different.
Elifantico@reddit
You can't go wrong getting a Master's. That'll serve you the rest of your life.
fishtrousers@reddit
For myself and most people I have spoken to on the topic, life is so, so much easier back in the U.S.A., regardless of political administration. I think you're working yourself up over something that ultimately barely affects you.
dukephilly@reddit
Can you elaborate on the ways it’s easier? I’ve heard usually the opposite, though mainly centered on healthcare and work life balance.
fishtrousers@reddit
Bureaucracy is usually much harder to work through as a foreigner, and many European countries are known to have particularly dense bureaucracies.
The healthcare thing is a joke. Many (not all, mind you) countries in Europe have absolutely atrocious healthcare. They have you wait for 10 hours in an emergency room and then turn you away the moment they see enough evidence to decide that you're not about to die. You wait months for a doctor's appointment, and once you're lucky enough to see one, they misdiagnose you or just generally do not give a shit; anything to get you out of their office asap. If you want real healthcare, you end up having to pay for private healthcare, which costs the same as it does in America, except you're also forced to pay for the social health insurance. I say all of this based on my experiences living in America and Europe, as well as those of very many European friends and colleagues.
Of course, being a foreigner in general comes with a whole range of quality of life downgrades. You can't communicate as well as you can in your home country. Even if you speak the language well, there are cultural aspects of life that you simply cannot fully adopt like a local can. You will always be an outsider to most people in the community, which can cause feelings of isolation, and, in some cases, hostility.
I'm not going to pretend that there aren't areas where quality of life in Europe wins. Work life balance is undoubtedly better in Europe, and the policy for vacation days / sick days in America is psychotic. Public spaces, towns, and cities are also far more beautiful in Europe, though I would say the nature and wide open spaces in America are generally more beautiful than those in Europe.
Minimum_Rice555@reddit
Private healthcare cost the same? In Spain full cover health insurance with 0 co-pay is 60€ per month.
fishtrousers@reddit
Notice that I said in many European countries, not all. I did not comment on Spain in particular. I can tell you with 100% certainty that in a large handful of European countries, you are paying out of your paycheck for national health insurance, but if you want private healthcare, you must pay entirely out of pocket for it or buy private health insurance in addition to the national health insurance.
Minimum_Rice555@reddit
I hear what you're saying but I'm trying to wrap my head around what scenario would make someone pay full cost for anything, uninsured, in Europe. If you're a tourist you would have travel insurance. Any important intervention/surgery is covered by emergency care for residents, in a timely manner. Are perhaps you referring to less urgent things maybe a cataract operation which have long waitlists in public health?
fishtrousers@reddit
I'm talking about residents who are insured by the national health insurance. In many countries here, if you go to an emergency room, you'll be sitting there for many, many hours (up to 10 in my experiences). They'll run a few tests and, if they see that you're not currently dying, they'll kick you out asap with a suggestion to go schedule an appointment with your GP or a specialist, which will take (at least) months of waiting unless you do it privately. I know many, many more people who have persistent health problems that they just simply cannot get any information on and basically have just decided to live with rather than fighting the system tooth and nail to get a drop of help.
I had an uncle who literally had no legs (both amputated) and the doctors told him his situation wasn't urgent and he would be put on the long list to wait many months for a wheelchair. What an affront to human dignity at best, and a danger to people's lives at worst.
In America, of course, some procedures can be very expensive, although insurance can reduce the prices significantly. But at the very least, if you want/need help with something, you can go to any doctor you want and more or less get what you need, at least compared to the situation in Europe.
ShiningReflection@reddit
In America, you could wait a day in the Emergency Room and be sent home without a proper diagnosis. Then 2 weeks later receive a bill for $5K for coinsurance and deductible on your sassy employee insurance plan (that you might contribute as well). Things have changed since COVID. It's NOT 2018 anymore.
fishtrousers@reddit
I'm sure in some states it's pretty horrible; fortunately I don't know anyone who has experienced this.
ShiningReflection@reddit
Again, everyone I know in a major US Metro area is pretty much experiencing this. What city do you live in?
fishtrousers@reddit
I currently live in Europe, but I have friends from around different regions of America, and (thank God) none of them or their family members have experienced something like this. My uncle died recently, and he was able to get all the healthcare he needed for years leading up to it on pretty standard health insurance while being unemployed and from a working class, non-college-educated family.
I never made these comments to claim that American healthcare is "good." It's horrible in many ways. The only good healthcare system I've ever seen was when I lived in Japan. I simply wanted to note to people who may not be aware that healthcare in Europe has a whole slew of its own problems that sometimes (depending on your situation) make it worse than American healthcare.
Minimum_Rice555@reddit
I'm sorry to hear that story. It's definitely not a perfect system and unfortunately some less-than-immediate cases fall through the cracks even though they would mean a quality of life improvement to someone.
Pin_ellas@reddit
The way that you described health insurance is what the average American lives with.
So many are bound to their employer because leaving means paying 4x-5x the insurance rate.
I have co-worker in their 40s emptied the retirement account to get physical therapy from a stroke and cancer treatment. The one with cancer opted not to go for the final treatment because they want their kids to be able to go to college. I have co-worker who have to fight with insurance to get tested after chemo treatment to see how well the chemo treatment went. Insurance company would pay for the chemo but wouldn't pay for the test after.
So, it's a gamble. You hope you don't get into a car accident on the highway when you drive somewhere and found out your insurance won't cover everything because the other person is at fault but they carry no insurance.
Insurance is a joke in majority of places in the U.S. it's great here just don't have accidents and don't get sick.
LukasJackson67@reddit
What country are you from?
OkSlip9273@reddit (OP)
Well, I can understand what you mean by saying it doesn't affect me but at the end of the day it does, it affects everyone living in the usa but perhaps most people are just oblivious
fishtrousers@reddit
The only negative you have actually mentioned about the U.S.A. is that you're worried it will be hard to save because expenses are high. Well, you can rest assured, that basically everybody else in the entire world knows that America is the best place to live if you want to save money. I've even known people from Switzerland and other famously wealthy European countries who have said the same.
The only other thing you mentioned is carefully choosing your career path based on the availability of open positions, which is something that everybody does at all times in response to various factors.
So realistically, how is your life actually impacted by who happens to be the president for a 4 year period of time?
Informal_Radio_2819@reddit
And now only 3.5 years left and counting, thank God...
Tardislass@reddit
I think what they are saying is that it's not the hell-scape that Reddit makes it out to be. Not everyone is MAGA or hates immigrants. Reddit scares people into thinking they will be assaulted by Red Hats at every turn and honestly it's not like it. The US has it's issues and quite frankly they are just like Europeans-healthcare costs and COL.
New_Criticism9389@reddit
People complain about blue states/urban areas being expensive but NYC and London (for example) are about on par, only NYC salaries are much much higher than London ones.
PhD_VermontHooves@reddit
I don’t know - I am unfortunately here and it’s pretty much a hellscape imo.
OkSlip9273@reddit (OP)
Yes but at the same time I already know this since I'm a non maga american myself. I'm more so thinking about the economic situation and the overall decline of the usa but that's because I'm too aware of it due to my studies
LukasJackson67@reddit
ICE? Burning books?
fishtrousers@reddit
Lmao dude come on, be serious.
LukasJackson67@reddit
Innocent people disappearing off the streets?
Look at the nice family man from Venezuela that was snatched off the streets and sent back to El Salvador?
fishtrousers@reddit
OP is an American and is not planning to enter the country illegally. He has FAR more to worry about from random violent crime while in an American city than he does about ICE. It's doubtful he'll ever even see an ICE agent in his life, let alone interact with one. What is the point in making people like him worry for no reason?
LukasJackson67@reddit
I agree. I am just echoing what I have read.
I live in the USA. I was an expat as well in Europe.
I have zero worries about violent crime in the USA.
Significant_Card_525@reddit
Following
satansxlittlexhelper@reddit
Cripplingly expensive with minimal nightlife. Everything opens late and closes early now.
renotory@reddit
Which country are you talking about?
satansxlittlexhelper@reddit
Amerikuh, baby. Since the Covid pandemic prices have skyrocketed.
Emotional_Trouble691@reddit
its def the us
ShiningReflection@reddit
Everyone so far seems primarily focused on money. But to me, quality of life and personal safety should rate highest. Making a high salary with one week of vacation and 3 annual sick days ISN'T living! Healthcare in the States after COVID is as bad as National, EXCEPT it's very EXPENSIVE on top of the abysmal care. Further it's based on money, so add unnecessary tests and procedures to jack up your bills. 11 people were just critically stabbed yesterday at a Walmart in Michigan. The day before something similar some place else in the States. Shootout at the Supermarket. You're just trying to run a few errands and it turns into a life changing event. How many Meth Heads/Addicts do you see panhandling in your neighborhood overseas? They seem to be everywhere in the States (in the urban areas I want to live). What about racial tension and squeezing hard on the poorest Americans while dismantling the Social Safety Net? I don't think Americans have thought out very well what's coming for their quiet suburban existence very soon! Don't hear too much about these things overseas where people might not have as many opportunities but have a more solid quality of life and safety.
zuesk134@reddit
this just isnt the reality for high earners in the US. if you are moving to the US to double or triple your salary you are most likely also getting unlimited PTO and great health insurance. and if you have good insurance in the US you are def not getting abysmal care
ShiningReflection@reddit
How do you factor good insurance with excellent care when the system is broken? Like having the money in this case will make all the difference? The best insurance doesn't lessen your 6-9 month wait for an appointment with the best doctor that will last only 15-30 minutes. The best doctors have horrific staff who forget to send your lab work out, cancel your appointment you made 3 months ago at last minute to fit someone else in so you can start from scratch for a new one, and neglect to get needed pre-authorizations (esp for imaging) that have to be rescheduled after waiting 2 months for the first one. That's pretty abysmal to me
renotory@reddit
Your experience is different from a lot of us. We get same day appointments all the time with primary care and within a week for specialists. We pay nothing for our care except an occasional small copay for certain medications. Like $5.00, if that.
Our care has been superior - with the best high-tech medical options on the planet. Like high tech fibroscans, etc.
Acupuncture, chiropractic, counselling etc. all covered.
We've never paid much at all for healthcare in over four decades of working in the US. Our medical providers are not perfect, but the errors and mishaps are extremely rare.
ShiningReflection@reddit
Anyone who lives in a major market doesn't experience what you've just described. That's why Virtual Medicine and Urgent Care have become so popular in cities. Sure, copays can be low, but I don't know ANYONE in major markets who get same day appointments or 1 week to see a specialist. Where is this Utopia you live in?
ShiningReflection@reddit
Anyone who lives in a major market doesn't experience what you've just described. That's why Virtual Medicine and Urgent Care have become so popular in cities. Sure, copays can be low, but I don't know ANYONE in major markets who get same day appointments or 1 week to see a specialist. Where is this Utopia you live in?
BestCandidate1640@reddit
Unlimited PTO is a giant corporate joke on the employee. The classic bait “shiny name” & switch “uncertainty” “wrongful comparison to others” “less time off taken than standard PTO”
Simco_@reddit
You won't get through to someone who makes a post like that.
MilkChocolate21@reddit
I've never only had a week of vacation in my entire career. Nor have I ever had limited sick days. You're describing life for low wage or non union workers. Not high earners. My jobs have all had Christmas shutdown, every holiday off, and in the past few years, extra rest days off. I take 2-3 weeks off at Christmas alone, and all of Thanksgiving week plus more.
ShiningReflection@reddit
The OP just finished their BA. This will make them entry level, not a high flyer.
MilkChocolate21@reddit
They will make less money. They will still have great insurance as an entry person in those companies
Informal_Radio_2819@reddit
Crime in the United States has fallen in some metros to levels never before recorded. Good news doesn't make headlines, so this story isn't getting the play it deserves, but statistically, the average American's chances of becoming the victim of a violent crime have probably never been lower. Even hot spots like Baltimore and New Orleans have seen a plunge in crime.
https://www.google.com.hk/search?num=10&newwindow=1&sca_esv=c11b94e477694cad&q=historic+drop+crime+us&tbm=nws&source=lnms&fbs=AIIjpHxU7SXXniUZfeShr2fp4giZ1Y6MJ25_tmWITc7uy4KIeqDdErwP5rACeJAty2zADJjYuUnSkczEhozYdaq1wZrEpAyvq_nCZZSdNL3a_zWXEwuKsmBoTyq3r5N_ZnXIM92RGvP76314IsbRi3jGXSbmNIAG6pxfWbbOKj2qests-Rn84SbgfAM73LHxm32_1Pp9sYxF&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiq3cHP0d-OAxUSe_UHHbufDQoQ0pQJKAJ6BAgWEAE&biw=969&bih=486&dpr=3
LesnBOS@reddit
Do not come back you will be stuck. do the master’s - like an MBA, and intern and do the projects with companies - that’s how you get into a job situatuon
Both__@reddit
Stay in Europe and get your masters. The bubble of privilege will only protect you for so long from Trump’s fascism in the U.S.
JoshWestNOLA@reddit
It’s the same.
herefordameme@reddit
It’s bittersweet. I miss Japan tremendously yet here I make substantially more, have a very comfortable life and I’m senior enough that I don’t have to prove much at work. However, my happiness level definitely went down. I’m less excited for things and the medical system is testing my patience.
This is def temporarily and hoping it’ll pass soon. However I will e moving back out of the us in the next 2 years
RealStanWilson@reddit
In leaving Japan, heading to Georgia next year with the whole family. I think I'll probably feel the same way as you, in that I will miss lots of little things like sashimi, good miso, local town things like コロッケ, onsen, reliable trains (especially the bullet train), not tipping, semi-safe drivers and more.
But still, I think it's important to get back.
ParamedicProper3667@reddit
My 2 cents is buy a shitty little truck with a tow hitch and a shirt little rv. Say somewhere like tonopah nevada or somewhere with low lot fees. Save, save and save then go back when you can. I did it the wrong way. I got a nice truck and nice trailer. Now I'm trapped. Be happy with a small amount so you can get more later.
Lighthouseamour@reddit
Don’t come back. It is not safe here and I wish I could leave
OkComputer626@reddit
I'm in the progress of moving back and am wrapping up an expat posting. If I could have it my way professionally, I'd love to split my time in the US and Asia.
However, in certain professions like tech and finance, the amount of money you can earn in the US is several times fold, and people are opportunity-focused. Work environments in much of East Asia is abysmal compared to the US for work-life balance, efficiency, and more risk averse for the most part unless you're working for a foreign company as an expat. The Americans I've seen stay long-term in Asia stay because they can afford a better quality of life in Asia in certain professions or situations, eg. academia, or have family money to run their own businesses.
For your regular corporate-type expat, unless I get another expat contract, I could work more years in the US where that capital would buy a comfortable lifestyle in many parts of Asia in Europe, though I find Europe kind of bland and racist to live in as an Asian person.
I'm not looking forward to the political climate, but I will be living in a blue city and looking forward to contributing to my community. I'm going to miss the world class infrastructure and safety in the region - going to miss not having anxiety to get on an airplane or getting shot, but there are lot of other factors in life like career, community, and shared values. While immediate political problems in the US are bleak, I also have concerns about long-term security in Asia.
freethenipple23@reddit
I'm happy to be closer to my family but work life balance here is non existent and now I can't even afford to get the paramedical services I had abroad for chronic pain
And I have a job with "health insurance" it covers the cost of prescription medication and that appears to be about it
Desperate_Baby_8317@reddit
For everybody that left the United States I’m just gonna say don’t come back if you don’t have to come back do not come back. It’s fucking terrible here. They are gutting everything. It is absolutely horrific if you don’t have money to support yourself or you don’t have a good job or you are a person that is marginalized in anyway do not come back.
wheel_wheel_blue@reddit
I would do a masters right away honestly, one because is way cheaper than in the US probably, two it gives you times to see how the whole thing “unfolds”, and three: a question for you. With a master from the counter you are at the comment you still need a visa sponsor or just a work permit?
Dry-Public-3708@reddit
I'm still abroad, but all of my family who've moved back from their travels have been recently laid off. Many companies have increased lay offs just like the increase in federal jobs. So, while not my experience, I think for now I'm just going to stay in Asia for the time being where I can make enough to survive.
RoosterExtension393@reddit
Just came back from Portugal. Im not sure what you're afraid of. I miss the beautiful country and it's people but America still feels like home
FrauAmarylis@reddit
The salaries here in the UK are abysmal.
The best-kept secret is that everyone who can afford private healthcare buys it.
Stay in the US.
LukasJackson67@reddit
Better work life balance in the uk and no fear of guns or medical bankruptcy
MammothTeacher2463@reddit
Spent 30 years in the US (Chicago) and never once saw a gun. I've seen teenagers wielding knives in the Netherlands though.
LukasJackson67@reddit
I agree.
I never never seen a gun either. I am just echoing what I have heard here for reasons not to move to the USA
Simco_@reddit
Mate, you're echoing yourself. You've shoehorned in "medical bankruptcy" four times into this thread. You're the only one bringing it up.
LukasJackson67@reddit
lol. Don’t you see how often it has been brought up here regularly as well as on r/amerexit, our sister forum?
MammothTeacher2463@reddit
That is no sister forum, the actual US expats of r/expats are more informed; most of r/amerexit is scaremongering Americans who think the rest of the world is utopia and the US is a "shithole".
LukasJackson67@reddit
Actually lots of contributors on r/amerexit have already left the USA and offer advice and talk about how much better their lives are now
Polardragon44@reddit
Personally I would be much more concerned day-to-day life with pickpockets and purse snatchers in the UK, I've never seen a gun out and about in the US.
And for me medical bankruptcy would be much more likely in the UK (I would need private insurance and I would have to travel a lot further for care) then the US. It's all relative.
LukasJackson67@reddit
I am just echoing what I read here.
I make considerably more than my European counterparts in the same profession.
My COL is lower.
I can also retire younger.
Polardragon44@reddit
Instead of echoing other people's opinion and acting like it's your own. Allow people who have experience to give their first person opinion.
LukasJackson67@reddit
Go to r/amerexit and listen to experiences of Americans there
Polardragon44@reddit
I'm an American who has lived around the US and outside of the US. The world doesn't revolve around Reddit.
And this doesn't negate the fact that you're answering people based off of experiences that are not your own.
LukasJackson67@reddit
I lived in Germany. I am a teacher.
My own experience talking to German teachers is that they work a lot longer than me…45 years until they can retire.
Why is so much of Reddit filled with “life is so much better in europe” talk?
I am not in the top 1%.
The house I live in here in the USA would be out of reach for most teachers in Europe.
Fit_Caterpillar9732@reddit
Why do you care about salaries in the UK? You haven’t worked in decades, and don’t pay taxes.
FrauAmarylis@reddit
This is important information for people considering working in the UK.
Your defensive ignorant attitude is par for the course here. Americans are free to criticize their country and it’s socially acceptable to do so. It’s Taboo in the UK to do it.
The fact that I retired early, is only further evidence that the earning potential in the US is much higher.
I have not been retired for decades. Check your “maths”.
NiceCandle5357@reddit
I just moved back and am glad I did. It's not going to be perfect, but neither was living abroad.
The_Dutchess-D@reddit
Don't come back it's super dangerous right now. They are building a ton of these concentration camps, even in blue states. I am in a blue state and every morning when I check there are is alerts nearby and they're dragging people out of their cars and breaking glass all over the roads when they smash their windows. New tariffs are going to affect the price of everything is going up and several of the items that I normally purchase unsubscribe and save all email notifications this week that they will be delayed in their delivery so I guess we're having supply chain issues again.
Everyone wants to get out. If you can avoid coming back, you should do so by any means necessary. Last week, the border patrol pursued an innocent Canadian man out in his tiny 6 foot boat on a lake in Canada by crossing over the Canadian border into Canada and capsizing his boat just so they could pull his boat across the border IN To the U.S. territory to arrest him. Just so they can reach their quota of the number of people. They have to arrest every day in order to remain eligible for their big ICE bonus. It doesn't matter that he didn't commit a crime or that he isn't even an American or wasn't in America. They're just arresting a lot of random people to try and keep their numbers high even if they have to release them anyway a few days later with no charges.
The president has now gotten his way with two major television networks who will now only show propaganda and they have had government babysitters installed to make sure that they don't say anything bad or unflattering about President Trump in their coverage.
He has withheld funding for all kinds of things at Congress already approved, and really screwed over the student loan repayment options. America is over. RUN.
michelle2ny@reddit
Did my masters in London with the hope of staying on for a bit longer. NYC offered a job first so I moved back home. Financially, this was 100% the smarter decision, esp given how crap the job market is everywhere. Life wise, i didn’t want to move back so soon as I’m originally from NYC & don’t have much interest living elsewhere in America.
My background is in public health & global health, so somewhat related to ID/IR. The fields being gutted as we speak & has forced me to rethink my career plans. Compared to Donald’s first term, his shenanigans this time are much more noticeably affecting my day to day, even in a liberal city with left-leaning local/state policies. It comes up constantly in my work & has made the move home a lot more stressful & anxiety-inducing. But financially, I would’ve never gotten a job that pays as well in London, even when adjusting for COL. The appeal of Europe is better work/life balance but I am thankfully at a non-profit where that is respected by management.
I am a big advocate for working before continuing on to a masters (I did so for 3 years) bc it provides you a much better idea of what you want out of a masters. Compared to my peers who
Worldly_Cricket7772@reddit
Not at all. With all due respect, I loved the character growth forced out of me due to my time in Europe but sorry not sorry - life is unnecessarily harder there in many respects as a foreigner, though you're certainly more at an advantage being educated than not. To cut to the chase and very broadly speaking as a generalization of course, the normative risk averse western European conservative attitudes towards hiring for non-trad or specific one track backgrounds into professions is a death knell for progress and growth on a broader macro scale and it will impact you personally on a micro scale unless you're okay with it. I also found the quality of education subpar for the price/cost difference even when paying international fees. I don't regret moving back, I regret trying to convince myself it was worth sticking it out for further pain to achieve nothing beyond convincing myself I wasn't wrong.
chiree@reddit
The dirty secret of the US is that if you do five years on a good American salary, and live as cheaply as possible, you can come back to Europe with a wad of cash that be used as a down payment that many young Europeans couldn't even dream of.
Minimum_Rice555@reddit
Believe or not I did the same Hungary -> Spain. I'm a dev and Hungarian salaries kind of top at 30-35k€. In Spain I earn triple than what I did in Hungary, working in a similar position. And the cost of living is approximately the same.
LoverOfTabbys@reddit
I thought Spanish salaries were not good
Worldly_Cricket7772@reddit
It depends on where in Europe and what you mean by living cheaply considering the high cost of living across the board. How much you value community and connection is not something to underestimate with a house or not. You could not pay me enough money to return to Europe willingly at this point tbh
LukasJackson67@reddit
You prefer the USA to Europe?
chiree@reddit
Both are great for their own reasons.
US (California and likeminded states): Friendly and flexible culture, high social acceptance of outsiders and different ways of being. High salaries for hard work, but COL becoming a real issue. Good higher education, but costs $$$$.
EU (southern): Friendly people, but a more inflexible culture. High social acceptance for foreigners that learn the language and adopt the customs. Shit job market and salaries with highly outdated command structure. Absolutely fantastic place to raise children, the concept of public space is multigenerational in a way the US is not.
elevenblade@reddit
I really like the nuance of this comment. So many Reddit takes are just EU/US = good/bad. We moved Southern California -> Sweden and I am grateful we had the opportunity to accumulate a decent nest egg prior to the move. That made it possible for us to live in a nice part of town and I don’t think we’d have been able to afford it within the same period of time if we had just started our careers in Sweden.
Our quality of life wasn’t bad in Southern California but is better here because of better work/life balance and lack of car dependence. I would agree with the high social acceptance for people who learn the language and culture as well as being a better place to raise children.
It is scary how fast things are changing politically in the US and it’s hard to know if that is going to continue or not and how bad things might or might not get. If you live in a blue city in a blue state, appear to be “white” and straight and haven’t posted too much anti-Trump stuff on social media I think you’ll be ok for a while, OP, but having an exit strategy is probably a smart idea.
chiree@reddit
Five years of grinding in my 30s in the US in exchange for the next 40 years of financial freedoms in Europe? Totally worth it.
Worldly_Cricket7772@reddit
Good for you!
Worldly_Cricket7772@reddit
I see you mentioned studying IR - I think you may want to consider broadening your job search to include potential routes in via consulting work, lobbying, international trade/foreign direct investment types of roles - public affairs is a hot mess right now but business as usual for business. The force is with you, OP. Agility and pivoting will become key to many career paths from here on out imho
Odd_Reading7747@reddit
Go to the Netherlands they have work for you and they are very International
LukasJackson67@reddit
Do the Dutch live better than Americans? Larger houses?
Worldly_Cricket7772@reddit
Lmao I lived in the Netherlands for four years and in France for two. I just left the Netherlands for the very same reasons I outlined
OkSlip9273@reddit (OP)
Will for sure look into those, thank you!
Kurt805@reddit
Well said.
Singular_Lens_37@reddit
Could you do a masters degree in something very employable and related to your BA? (public relations? Marketing?) where you are and then see how you feel in two years? You’ll be in a better position to get hired in either country with a good masters degree and we’ll have a better sense after the midterms of whether the US is going to correct its course or plunge further into darkness.
Blaizefed@reddit
I moved back right before Covid after 13 years in the UK. We have gone from middle class to pretty wealthy while doing largely the same work. I’m just outside NYC so all the Trump lunacy has had little effect day to day (so far). Our original plan was to stay here for a few years then move down to New Orleans where I am actually from. But given the rise of the MAGA movement and what it’s doing in the south, well, we bought a house in New Jersey last fall.
My wife (British) is already hinting that we may need to bounce if things get worse around here, and I just last night was getting my ILR in the UK updated and making sure it’s still valid and I can access it. So far everything is fine, but who knows how things will play out over the next 3.5 years. We are absolutely keeping options open.
Still, we both make 2-3 times here, what we did there. And that’s hard to argue with.
Multiverse_Money@reddit
It’s a shithole- don’t come back unless you’re ready to fight for democracy.
gringosean@reddit
Work pays more in the USA.
Dry-Feedback1009@reddit
Can I recommend Australia?
OkSlip9273@reddit (OP)
I have thought about it and but it's too far from family. I've already been in a situation where I've had to fly back immediately because of a family emergency and might still have a bit of ptsd from it lol
JRLtheWriter@reddit
I've been living outside the US for ten years. While I haven't moved back, I did just take my first trip home in six years. I certainly noticed some changes but more post-Covid impacts, like empty storefronts, than political changes. A couple of my friends and acquaintances have gone either full-MAGA or full TDS but mostly people are just trying to keep it together and move forward. YMMV in this area.
On the career side, I can say a few definitive things. I do international economics and worked for the federal government my first five years out of grad school before moving to the private sector. A lot of my grad school friends are feds or work in areas dependent on federal funding. Most of them seem OK for now but no one knows what the new normal will look like.
Generally speaking, it's easier to get into the federal government with a graduate degree than just a BA but it's probably good to have a couple-few years work experience between grad and undergrad. As an aside, going straight to grad school seems more common in Europe so if you decide to stay over there it could work out.
My suggestion is to think about specific areas and career paths and take it from there. What do you want to do with international relations?