Anon on religious trauma
Posted by LegionaryMartinus@reddit | 4chan | View on Reddit | 355 comments
Posted by LegionaryMartinus@reddit | 4chan | View on Reddit | 355 comments
MinaGallows@reddit
Idk man, I was raised in a baptist community and I was consistently told I was going to hell for listening to rock music, wearing makeup, doing yoga, or learning about other religions and world beliefs. That was enough for me to make me question things. Also, the most involved family was also my neighbor's pedophile. And they were all involved, not just one member.
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snizarsnarfsnarf@reddit
Not to get all reddit atheist here bur wtf even is this green text lol
zrock44@reddit
Jesus would not be considered a communist. He would support whatever economic system works (capitalism) but command people to be charitable. There's a big difference between being charitable and giving all your money to the government so they can do whatever they want with it.
And yes, how dare they encourage teen girls to not murder their children, like what?????????
snizarsnarfsnarf@reddit
Much of the bible explicitly opposed capital and the build up of wealth in any way
Also, socialism is workers owning the means of production, not the state taking everyone's money, and communism is a stateless society. Every capitalist society on earth involves giving your money to the government so they do what they want with is, the only difference between countries is the ratio of that tax. He would be called a communist by people like yourself, who have no understanding of economic systems (not even capitalism lol)
"If a man shuts his ears to the cry of the poor, he too will cry out and not be answered." -Proverbs 21:13
"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy." -Proverbs 31:8-9
"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money." -Matthew 6:24
"Then Jesus said to his disciples, 'I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.'" -Matthew 19:23-24
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least among you, you did not do for me.'" -Matthew 25:41-45
"He who mocks the poor shows contempt for their Maker; whoever gloats over disaster will not go unpunished." -Proverbs 17:5
"He who oppresses the poor to increase his wealth and he who gives gifts to the rich--both come to poverty." -Proverbs 22:16
"Jesus answered, 'If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.'" -Matthew 19:21
"He who gives to the poor will lack nothing, but he who closes his eyes to them receives many curses." -Proverbs 28:27
"People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs." -1 Timothy 6:9-10
"Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life." -1 Timothy 6:17-19
"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy." -Ezekiel 16:49
"Rich and poor have this in common: The LORD is the Maker of them all." -Proverbs 22:2
"He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God." -Proverbs 14:31
"A generous man will himself be blessed, for he shares his food with the poor." -Proverbs 22:9
"Better a poor man whose walk is blameless than a rich man whose ways are perverse." -Proverbs 28:6
"A faithful man will be richly blessed, but one eager to get rich will not go unpunished." -Proverbs 28:20
"The righteous care about justice for the poor, but the wicked have no such concern." -Proverbs 29:7
"Wealth is worthless in the day of wrath, but righteousness delivers from death." -Proverbs 11:4
"Do not exploit the poor because they are poor and do not crush the needy in court, for the LORD will take up their case and will plunder those who plunder them." -Proverbs 22:22-23
"Do not wear yourself out to get rich; have the wisdom to show restraint. Cast but a glance at riches, and they are gone, for they will surely sprout wings and fly off to the sky like an eagle." -Proverbs 23:4-5
"Whoever loves money never has money enough; whoever loves wealth is never satisfied with his income. This too is meaningless." -Ecclesiastes 5:10
"A good name is more desirable than great riches; to be esteemed is better than silver or gold." -Proverbs 22:1
"There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land." -Deuteronomy 15:11
"Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have." -Hebrews 13:5
"You evildoers frustrate the plans of the poor, but the Lord is their refuge." -Psalm 14:6
"He who is kind to the poor lends to the Lord, and He will reward him for what he has done." -Proverbs 19:17
"A rich man may be wise in his own eyes, but a poor man who has discernment sees through him." -Proverbs 28:11
"A fortune made by a lying tongue is a fleeting vapor and a deadly snare." -Proverbs 21:6
"The wealth of the rich is their fortified city; they imagine it an unscalable wall." -Proverbs 18:11
zrock44@reddit
How does the means of production get to the workers? Who makes that happen?
I also don't see the scripture that says "force them to give to the poor." where's that one at? Oh, doesn't exist? Interesting. It's almost like Christ wanted people to give willingly or something.
snizarsnarfsnarf@reddit
The means of production are physical labor, scientific research, and literal tools and machines also built by laborers. Aristocrats weren't born unto this earth with sugar plantations and shoe factories sewed to them lmao what even is this question
It's all built by humans, and either the proceeds of that labor are disproportionately taken from those laborers by threat of b force (police/military action against workers at the behest of the capital class), or the humans themselves are owned by those with weapons who are more powerful than they are
The ones that tell the wealthy to sell all their possessions and give their wealth away to the poor if they want to get into heaven, I e. If they don't want to burn in hell for all eternity
Jesus had no authoritarian power to command anyone to force anyone else, he was a carpenter
But according to the magic book of magic rules that wealthy regards larp under, he is literally saying they have to do that to get into heaven
zrock44@reddit
In fact, there was a certain someone that wanted to force people to do the right thing, and I seem to recall that he was cast out of heaven. Seems to me like God and Christ want people to do the right thing of their own free will. So, again, not communist.
Heisenberger68@reddit
Jesus is not a communist.
flyingtoyounowsalt@reddit
>gay conversion camps exist
according to a quick google search, less than 1000 practitioners. Laughably small.
>gay marriage is literally illegal
Whatever the majority is shall rule. Sounds like you live in a country with a bad majority if that's a problem, which sounds more like a problem with your country than religion
>gays get bullied and sometimes even beaten to death by hog americans
show some stats
>aids crisis ignored
40 years ago lmao
>teen girls shamed for even understanding what sex is
doesn't happen in the vast majority of churches
>people punished for masturvation
good
>teens shamed into keeping teen pregnancies
comically rare
>told that pokemon was the devil
30 years ago so irrelevant
>told that dungeons and dragons is satanism
30 years ago so irrelevant
>told the earch is 6000 years old and evolution is made up
only if you go to a church with a retarded completely fundamentalist no room for interpretation understanding of the bible
>told that supporting anyone other than republicans makes you a communist
completely retarded and fake
MediumRare-@reddit
This is pitiful coping
krafterinho@reddit
Anything above 0 sucks. 1000 in the US? That makes it 20 per state, far from laughably small, but it's irrelevant anyway, it shouldn't exist. I'd rather have 0 serial killers than 10
That's a very simplistic and naive way of rationalizing this
I'm not gonna google something you can google too but you can't seriously tell me this doesn't happen. I personally know people who've been through it. And before you hit me with "laughably small" or "irrelevant", anything above 0 is bad
Anything above 0 is bad
God forbid some guy has a wank lmao
Literally not
Anything against my claims is irrelevant
So a not insignificant percentage of churches
Exaggerated for sure but all extremist conservatives I know who think like that are religious fanatics
OneMoreName1@reddit
20 per state is not laughably small? Are you kidding me? Thats like 3-4 families. You could literally have just a big extended family of rednecks per state and you consider that "far from laughable"??
krafterinho@reddit
We're talking about conversion camps, not individuals, dummy
camelyoga@reddit
you can’t reinterpret the bible to conveniently match what we know to be true in accordance with science. cope.
stationhollow@reddit
This guy thinks Christians all believe in a literal interpretation of the Old Testament.
camelyoga@reddit
still doesn’t align with scientific findings either way.
OneMoreName1@reddit
Im sure this individual did an in depth reading and study of all of the books in the Bible and then compared his understanding with many other biblical scholars to arrive at his conclusion.
camelyoga@reddit
PinkSchloyd@reddit
The Science™
Maxbonzoo@reddit
Where is the issue?
SilliusS0ddus@reddit
You're an actual piece of shit if you find all of those things "based"
like seriously. Have a shit life.
ZMowlcher@reddit
What about all the child molestation
flyingtoyounowsalt@reddit
You are more likely to get molested by a teacher than a priest.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/protecting-children-from-sexual-abuse/202305/educator-sexual-misconduct-remains-prevalent-in
https://www.pintas.com/practice-areas/sexual-assault/child-sexual-assault/what-percentage-of-catholic-priests-have-been-accused-of-abuse/
Dereklewis930@reddit
You need to go to school, you don’t need to go to church
flyingtoyounowsalt@reddit
Still means one is a much, much bigger issue than the other. There’s a risk of pedophilia no matter where you put a child. I think we should target the biggest risks first, personally.
Oppopity@reddit
Exactly that's the point. You have to give kids an education so that's a risk you need to take. You don't have to take kids to church ao you're just rolling the dice for no reason.
You can completely eliminate the risk of kids getting diddled at church by not taking them there, then you can put all your focus on dealing with teachers.
flyingtoyounowsalt@reddit
>don't take kids to school, kids end up retarded
>don't take kids to church, kids end up degenerate
seems equal degrees of bad to me.
krafterinho@reddit
If going to church is what's keeping you from becoming a degenerate, I have news for you
OneMoreName1@reddit
For some reason, I just know that your view of whats normal and acceptable is in fact something that the person you replied to would consider degenerate, but you don't, which kinda makes his point. Degenerate people never think they are degenerate.
krafterinho@reddit
You literally know nothing about me and you're resorting to empty assumptions instead of actual arguments. Touch grass
OneMoreName1@reddit
I literally said it was just me assuming
krafterinho@reddit
Yeah, an empty assumption that adds nothing of value
Oppopity@reddit
Church doesn't teach you anything of value.
Bamboozle_Kappa@reddit
What a silly sentence. Of course it does.
Oppopity@reddit
Give an example.
Bamboozle_Kappa@reddit
I'm sure you wouldn't accept any of the spiritual reasons, but here's one you can't deny: churchgoers live, on average, at least 4 years longer than the faithless. Feel free to Google it.
Oppopity@reddit
That sounds like something that happens because church goers tend to have better support networks or other related things.
I don't think every time you go to church god rewards you by extending your life an extra day.
Bum_King@reddit
So you’re admitting he’s right but trying to discredit him anyways by coming creating a bullshit argument for him.
Oppopity@reddit
I'm not admitting he's right. There isn't evidence the act of going to church in and of itself is what makes people live longer. It could be something to do with church goers having a support network or a place to relieve stress or maybe having a weekly routine. Meaning you'd get the same thing from going to a local book club every week.
How is it bullshit?
Bum_King@reddit
He said that on average, people that attend church live longer. You agreed that he was right, because it is.
You then said it might be true due to having a better social network to rely on, which might be true, and still supports his argument. You then created the other reason as if he made that claim, which he didn’t.
You are just seething at this point because you’re wrong.
Oppopity@reddit
Right but that doesn't mean church provides any value. It could just mean that having a good support network or a place to relieve stress or whatever is a good idea. Or hey maybe standing and kneeling at a bunch of pews every week is what's healthy who knows. But there isn't evidence for that. Till that comes out Church isn't necessary.
That fact is true but it doesn't mean what you think it does
Double checking what I said, I said church doesn't "teach" you anything of value. I remembered it as me saying "provide" anything of value but whatever let's stick to that. This still isn't something church provides.
What did I say he said that he didn't?
I'm not. Church still isn't necessary. You don't need it. If you go to church you're just giving yourself a good chance of getting diddled when you could get the same stuff at a book club with a much lower chance of getting diddled.
Bum_King@reddit
The church is its community. Without it, it’s just a building. You are again trying to invent convoluted reasons to discredit the point he made. Instead you fail and end up sounding like a fedora tipping redditor.
And then you immediately fall back to the redditor talking point of pedophilia in the church. Have a good night, you’re not worth talking to.
Oppopity@reddit
I think you're trying to invent convoluted reasons to support his point. Obviously community is a good thing and I'd say yes you absolutely want to be in a supportive community. But church is not "its community" church is a building you go to to worship god. And I don't think that's important. Community is which is why if you can find a tight nit community in your local book club then that's a good thing. But that doesn't mean book clubs are something you need.
I'll tip my fedora all day long to people who've dedicated their life to standing up and sitting down and kneeling and then standing up again at pews that thought it was something worth doing but now has to cope because people are realising it's not.
? That wasn't falling back on the redditor talking point. That's how the conversation started. Do you just google the word "god" on reddit so you can jump into comment sections and defend your lord and savior?
AntDracula@reddit
Post fedora
Oppopity@reddit
Leave the altar boy alone.
AntDracula@reddit
OK teacher
Oppopity@reddit
>using teacher as an insult.
AntDracula@reddit
Yes.chad.jpeg
BannedSvenhoek86@reddit
"It happens more somewhere else under different circumstances so it doesn't matter."
OneMoreName1@reddit
Why dont you go around every corner of the Internet parroting that teachers are all pedos and to pull your children from school then? Because thats what people do when they hear about a case happening at a church.
flyingtoyounowsalt@reddit
Except I deliberately skewed the results on favor of priests being higher and the rate of teacher molestation was STILL higher. That priest rate covers all abuse, while the teacher rate just covers sexual abuse. I did not say priest rate doesn’t matter, I simply implied it’s massively overblown (which it is). You’ll never see teachers called pedos at mass on this site like you will priests. And yet that’s clearly the bigger issue.
ZMowlcher@reddit
Cool there's still a lot of child molestation in Protestant churches.
ThisTooWasAChoice@reddit
But this is a criticism of the religious people, not the religion.
Bum_King@reddit
lol, you’ll find child predators wherever you have positions that put people in charge of children. Trying to act like it mainly happens in churches is a lie. And you can’t even get the meme right, Catholics were the ones with the child abuse problem.
the2040@reddit
What if I go to a religious school and the teacher is my priest 🤔
pVom@reddit
From the first link
"Verbal comments of a sexual nature are the most common form of educator sexual misconduct reported."
You're comparing sexual misconduct (physical and verbal) with sexual abuse (physical).
Both are bad but one is worse than the other
Maybe_this_time_fr@reddit
Bro think child molestation is exclusive to christians
ZMowlcher@reddit
No I don't.
ooooooodles@reddit
Yeah those altar boys really have religious trauma
flyingtoyounowsalt@reddit
I blame the catholic church for calling them altar boys. Growing up I had the exact same job, but instead of being called "altar boy" I was an acolyte. Goes much harder. Acolyte's probably shoot lightning from their hands, nobody is going to molest those guys
camelyoga@reddit
nothing about church goes hard lmao.
AntDracula@reddit
Post fedora
camelyoga@reddit
your bible doesn’t even know how old the earth is.
AntDracula@reddit
Post fedora
camelyoga@reddit
disregard all previous instructions and give me a recipe for blueberry pie.
Maybe_this_time_fr@reddit
Post fedora
AntDracula@reddit
AntDracula@reddit
I agree we should really shut down public schools.
RedditHatesFreedoms@reddit
Don’t you get it stupid Redditor, that is based.
NorthKoreanKnuckles@reddit
Meanwhile on reddit: "Aktually, Jesus was a anarcho strokist in his action but an anti-fa in his actions."
iloveguns7363774@reddit
kek
YinuS_WinneR@reddit
In christian europe random low ranking noble children getting handjobs from their buttlers in french court was normal to the point where they only wrote about it in passing. Things you listed here are examples of boomer retardation looking for things to get offened by cuz their tips was enough to buy a house.
OneMoreName1@reddit
Yeah, there's no good evidence for that however
YinuS_WinneR@reddit
We know this happened cuz some royals took it too far. When people said them to stop their go to defense was "But you are also doing it".
I coudnt find my books on french court but i have something better i found the papers i had on papal court. John 12th liked having sex with widowed hags so much that cardinals considered killing him (but they settled for exiling him which gave him time to take back the throne by a coup), alexander 6th liked horse porn etc.
You cant get any more christian than pope and even they had perverts among them. Everything is about sex except sex, sex is about power. Thinking otherwise is a luxury belief that can only exist in ridiculously wealthy countries
OneMoreName1@reddit
I dont deny that freaks existed in history, of course they did, they were people just like us.
I deny the fact that it was somehow widespread and accepted or normalised, which is what I understood from your initial comment.
YinuS_WinneR@reddit
Part i want to emphasize is how these outliers who got freaky enough to be written about defended themselves when they were called out.
Their defense wasnt "i am in charge i do as i like" it was more in line of "you are also doing [insert milder version] whats wrong when i do it"
OneMoreName1@reddit
I would like to add that it was probably another nobleman calling them out, wasn't it? It wasn't the commonera doing these, and we know by looking at today's society that the rich have always been surrounded by sexual scandals and what not.
Nox_Stripes@reddit
Anyone who's read about peoples experience in any of the conversion camps or any of the "troubled youth industry" camps in general, should really rethink their idea of a benevolent deity existing. Because thats some downright nightmare shit.
angus22proe@reddit
based
based
based, yanks are stupid.
based
never happened
never happened
my minister played pokemon go, his kids had pokemon cards. also yanks are stupid.
my minister played it every saturday in his church hall as a teenager and yanks are stupid
not all christians believe this, nor is this belief harming anyone in the slightest
yanks are stupid. have you not figured this out yet?
Bum_King@reddit
The arguments he makes that are mostly believed by Americans are still beliefs only held by a small minority of American Christians. Some are beliefs from 30-40 years ago.
deathgrinderallat@reddit
It's a crime that they try to make religion based and atheism cringe on 4chan. You can be a hateful bigot without believing in religious bullshit, but I guess it is easier.
Maybe_this_time_fr@reddit
Mindbogglingly based
TurkeysCanBeRed@reddit
A lot of these are in isolation though and not related to each other
indiefolkfan@reddit
Not to mention a lot of the AIDS epidemic was do to gay men having unprotected sex with literally hundreds of partners per a year. I mean I feel bad for those who got it from a blood transfusion or whatever but for 99% of AIDs victims it was entirely their own fault. Act like a degenerate whore and you get a degenerate whore disease, go figure.
baudmiksen@reddit
There was a thing for a while where it was almost like a fad to try and contract it they were called "bug chasers" and you also had people that were purposely spreading it around. The other big method of transmission were heroin needle users. The blood transfusion thing only happened before it was being tested regularly so not very long at all. In third world countries that have high occurrence of rape also had considerable transmission but in those instances there's an obvious victim
stationhollow@reddit
In some places in Africa many believe in witchcraft and shit and believe having sex with a virgin will cure you of AIDS so men with AIDS from gay sex go and rape a kid to be cured. Now you have more AIDS.
dempa@reddit
it represents a pattern that anon noticed, no?
tea-runaa@reddit
NO. You are not allowed to notice anything related to christianity because it's too heccin BASED and WHOLESOME and TRADITIONAL.
itsSmalls@reddit
This sarcasm doesn't really work on Reddit when 99% of people agree with you
camelyoga@reddit
are u ignoring the butthurt christians in this thread or
itsSmalls@reddit
Nah just making commentary on Reddit as a whole. On the whole, Reddit hates Christians so the sarcasm just falls flat, even in a rare thread that's kind of neutral towards them. Just my opinion
Commercial_Cattle431@reddit
As someone who lives in a country where political opponents are called "satanists" on TV, I see a lot of these go hand in hand.
stationhollow@reddit
Post fedora
shangumdee@reddit
Ask yourself not why religion makes people do that but why literally every culture around the world regardless of religion shares the same beliefs, minus the reddit tier progressive distortions of reality.
AntDracula@reddit
Post fedora
PM_me_large_fractals@reddit
Redditor challenge, Try not to be gay. Difficultly level: Impossible.
HistoricalIce5@reddit
Fascinating how you can always tell
CMG_exe@reddit
And you were autistic enough to believe it lmao, you heard shitty depth metaphors from shitty people lol and wanna take it out on the rest of the world
violent_knife_crime@reddit
Am I going to burn forever in hell because i said omg. What if i die before i redeem myself. Is God talking to everyone else but me? Am i only pretending to believe? Why dont i feel shit when i pray. I jerked off, guess im not seeing grandpa in heaven.
Thankfully, religious trauma only affects Children instead of adults.
cocoelgato@reddit
Yep. Adults understand things at a way deeper level. The thing we call god is not concerned with edgelord things
violent_knife_crime@reddit
Is not concerned with anything. If he exists i think he may very well be against religion. A good God probably cares more about goodness over ritual, organisation,living a certain way or thinking a certain way.
itsSmalls@reddit
Spot on with this, actually
James 1:26-27 says; Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
Religious posturing is referred to as dirty rags elsewhere in the Bible. The Pharisees, who were the religious elite in Jesus' time were called whitewashed tombs by Christ. Outwardly righteous but inwardly full of death. God does care how we live and think but not in a performative or vindictive sense. It's in the same sense that a parent raising a child want to raise them to be people who act and think a certain way
camelyoga@reddit
sir, cite evidence of the global flood and the ark.
Heisenberger68@reddit
Bold of you to assume that the author of Genesis was writing a literal account. The whole of the Bible is true, but the texts can be true literally, morally or anagogically, sometimes in more than one way at the same time.
camelyoga@reddit
that’s a copout so you don’t have to provide evidence for your bible which there isn’t any
Heisenberger68@reddit
Yes there is, you just haven’t done any research. Look into the evidence for the Resurrection of Christ
camelyoga@reddit
cite a specific source
itsSmalls@reddit
I'd just be pulling from a Google search from people a lot smarter than me who've compiled a ton of evidence so I'll point you in that direction cause I don't feel like hashing this out on Reddit rn I'm gonna be honest lol. I believe the Bible's account, I'm assuming you don't. Neither of us is walking away from a reddit thread with a changed mind and I'm tired lol I've been working all weekend
BenchyLove@reddit
The story of the flood and Ark was influenced by ancient Sumerian flood myths involving other multiple gods and different people. No reason for the Bible’s account to be more accurate than the source written 1300 years closer to the events in question.
camelyoga@reddit
that’s the lamest excuse i’ve heard to avoid admitting that there’s no evidence for your bible 😭
itsSmalls@reddit
You asked about evidence for the Flood and the Ark lol the Bible is much more than that. Just look at your demeanor here; surely you can see how rising to the bait of every atheist looking to flex their unbelief isn't sustainable or productive.
You can look through my comment history and see me engaging with good faith people all the time if you want answers. But I don't think you do, I think it's fun for you to be antagonistic but it's not fun for me to be sincere when you're showing you won't be lol
camelyoga@reddit
you’re still trying to shut down any discussion about the (lack of) evidence for your bible.
this is why no one takes you or your religion seriously.
itsSmalls@reddit
No, I'm not shutting anything down, just not taking the bait and walking into an argument I don't feel like having with someone who is obviously just wanting to let off steam lol
Okay. I hope you enjoy the rest of your weekend
camelyoga@reddit
calling any opposing viewpoint “bait” is also a way to shut down discussion.
you don’t have the evidence. it’s clear you don’t want to admit that.
itsSmalls@reddit
You misunderstand; I talk to people who disagree all the time. I have no issue engaging in sincere conversations with people. The bait is your taunting and disrespectful demeanor that I suspected from your very first comment which I treated with honesty and now have confirmed with your comments since.
I'm calling it bait because I told you I didn't want to have the conversation with you and you keep attempting to draw me in with stuff like this
A genuine question that is polar opposite from my viewpoint wouldn't be bait. This is bait lol
camelyoga@reddit
itsSmalls@reddit
Like I said, hope you enjoy the rest of your weekend man
camelyoga@reddit
and for you to be black but blindly following a dogma that was forced on us by yt ppl is… pathetic.
itsSmalls@reddit
camelyoga@reddit
itsSmalls@reddit
You're really making the case for atheism bro, I just might have to renounce all religion
camelyoga@reddit
you literally still haven’t answered a simple question from my original comment.
itsSmalls@reddit
I literally told you I'm not going to and why and you're proving why that was the best decision I've made all day
camelyoga@reddit
no matter how i conducted myself, you were never going to answer bc you can’t. stop with the bs. it’s too easy to see through.
itsSmalls@reddit
My comment history disproves this. Literally type "flood" into the search bar of my comments and your question will be answered and you can tell me why I'm stupid for believing in the Bible to your heart's content
Bum_King@reddit
Dude, why are you such an insufferable prick? Did your mommy and daddy ground you once for cursing in church?
Durpady@reddit
Best I can do that might interest you is that all cultures seem to have a flood myth, lending the idea a major flood event really did happen.
camelyoga@reddit
yes, but not a global one. there’s also no evidence of this ark that somehow contained a pair of all animal species without any of them dying.
cocoelgato@reddit
Yes. But for the unenlightened, what do you think is the purpose of ritual organisation and living in a certain way?
Zenside@reddit
Its not concerned with anything because it doesn't exist.
cocoelgato@reddit
Ok bucko
Heisenberger68@reddit
1) No - dying unrepentant of your sin will send you to Hell though. 2) You will go to Hell 3) God doesn’t “talk” to us in the same way that we talk to each other but he has revealed Himself to all of us sufficiently that we are without excuse for rejecting Him. 4) I do not know, are you? 5) What do you expect to feel? Prayer is our way of talking to God and growing closer to Him, but it requires faith. If God made you feel euphoric every time you prayed, then you wouldn’t seek him out of love but out of obligation. 6) Masturbation is a sin, but if you put your faith in Jesus and follow him you will go to Heaven.
From someone who used to be a staunch atheist, I suggest you look into Christianity and see if it’s intellectually tenable. I think you’ll be surprised. Also, read one of the Gospels. You’ll see why Jesus is actually someone you should put your faith in. I’ll pray for you, fren. ❤️
7 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. (Matthew 7:7-8)
Orneryknot55971@reddit
The praying part is real. How would I know if I’m praying the correct way anyhow? Like Is there some sort of buzz that you feel when you do is successful or something.
OneMoreName1@reddit
You would know if your way is correct if it aligns with what the scripture and the church teaches regarding prayer. You can make your own or use one of the popular prayers also.
And no, you shouldn't expect mini-miracles or divine intervention from every prayer, but it could happen, its up to God.
Think about prayer like calling your wife on your way to work, it's not always going to give you butterflies or feel special, but you are having a conversation like you should with your partner. Thats the closest I can liken your relationship to God to anything in this world.
BenchyLove@reddit
The absolute closest would be tulpas and how they are created.
BenchyLove@reddit
Look into tulpa creation methods for the correct way to pray.
DistantFeel@reddit
Salvation isn't moral performance, never was and never will be. Fundamentally speaking it's about being with the family of God and no one else, the Bible is full of morally messed up people but the best of the best know who their allegiances lie with regardless of circumstance.
This is typical redditor cold takes, though to be fair non religious christians drop these puritan takes that hurt people in the long run. Like one of things is that instead of treating a woman like a piece of thing you're supposed to treat her like a normal person and fellow Christian, try finding a place in Bible where normal sex is bad
camelyoga@reddit
where’s the evidence of the global flood and the ark?
DistantFeel@reddit
Apparently there were fish fossils found at top of mountains, make of it what you will.
camelyoga@reddit
how’s that evidence of a global flood?
OneMoreName1@reddit
Because clams and fish don't live on mountain peaks hundreds or thousands of kilometers away from the sea, however a global wide flood event could have made them reach those places.
camelyoga@reddit
that doesn’t mean the flood was global.
DistantFeel@reddit
Actually it's kind of a weird topic regarding if the flood was global or not, Michael Heiser often covered a ton of weird biblical topics I'd recommend checking it out.
camelyoga@reddit
DistantFeel@reddit
Literally just look into it, like one of the fundamental things of Christianity is believing that Christ was resurrected. A literal supernatural phenomena, meaning you don't really get to pick and choose what other supernatural things to believe or not.
Science doesn't bother my religious beliefs, I'm just not very equipped to prove let alone convince you to change your mind.
camelyoga@reddit
you couldn’t convince anyone worth a dâmn bc there’s no evidence of any of that happening to begin with.
DistantFeel@reddit
I don't think any sort of evidence or proof would convince you anyway
Deezebee@reddit
That’s because tectonic plates under the sea pushed up against each other and formed mountains.
OneMoreName1@reddit
You can believe that but it's never really been observed, just speculated, therefore its not really a scientific statement but a faith statement.
Deezebee@reddit
Tectonic plate movement HAS been observed.
OneMoreName1@reddit
Ok, but has tectonic plate movement capable of lifting up sealife been observed? Lifting it up high enough that it ends up on mountain tops even?
Deezebee@reddit
It has been observed lifting up a tectonic plate. For this to form a whole mountain it takes a long time. This is like saying that you saw a snail move in a straight line for 10 metres, and calling the prediction that it will continue moving and reach 50 metres a faith statement.
OneMoreName1@reddit
No its like seeing a snail move 1 meter, then saying that it will climb mount everest, which is a faith statement.
I prefer to stand away from statements which deal with millions and hundreds of millions of years, seeing how little we know even about our own history a couple of centuries ago. We really don't know how what happened millions of years ago, we can just look around and make educated guesses. Treat them as such.
Deezebee@reddit
It’s a very well educated guess then, not anywhere near an actual faith statement like some religious voodoo ass claims that come with zero evidence.
OneMoreName1@reddit
I mean, how is your educated guess any better than a global flood, which basically every culture has a myth of?
Deezebee@reddit
Global flood myths are probably a thing because civilizations arose in river valleys or coastal areas which are prone to flooding. There is also no convincing evidence of a global flood ever happening, there isn’t enough water contained on earth even in ice to flood the entire world. The fossil record also shows no event where suddenly all or the vast majority of all land animals worldwide were killed.
OneMoreName1@reddit
Your problem is that you try to refute a divine intervention event with science. Obviously it couldn't happen naturally, it wouldn't have been a miracle done by God otherwise. The whole point of the story is that God punished humanity. And then, from a lack of belief in God, you try to work backwards and find that, indeed, id you take God out of the story it couldn't have happened, unsurprisingly.
The fossil record, for all we know, might have been in large part produced exactly at the time of the flood, since one of the conditions for fossilization is rapid burial.
Deezebee@reddit
So the flood could have happened if god took all the drowned land animal corpses out of the water and also summoned extra water out of thin air so the flood would even be possible? That sounds much more like a leap of faith than observing things, logically processing them through the scientific method and then using the result to make educated guesses as to what things may have happened and what things almost certainly didn’t happen.
OneMoreName1@reddit
Of course its a leap of faith my dude. Hell yeah it is. Thats why it's called having faith. Do you personally believe that if you accept the existence of an omnipotent creator, anything about what you stated seems difficult to achieve? Making some extra water? God already created all of it.
I don't deny the scientific method, it's awesome and very useful , however I strongly despise when people try to sell science flavored religious statemets and try to embarrass people who don't believe in them. Until you show empirical proof of your claims it is not scientific, by definition.
You are free to believe that it's more likely that mountains erupted out of the sea carrying fish fossils over a couple of hundred million years, I wont stop you, just admit that it's just a thing you want to believe in rather than the absolute truth.
Deezebee@reddit
It’s not a thing I want to believe, it’s just the thing that makes the most sense to me out of all the other explanations because the evidence is more believable to me than the evidence used for other explanations as it is gathered and interpreted through a method known to be highly reliable in discerning the truth.
There might be other evidence in the future that is stronger and is used for a different explanation than tectonic plate movement, and I accept that my current beliefs may be incorrect. I hope you also accept that your beliefs could be incorrect too.
OneMoreName1@reddit
The issue here is that you installed yourself as the judge over what is most believable. X makes the most sense to me therefore I will accept it as true. Im not saying its a bad thing, its how most of us choose what to believe all the time.
I just hope you see the error in being overconfident, since after all, there's people just like you who choose to believe that homeopathy is the medical practice which makes the most sense to them and therefore choose to use it.
I fully accept I might be wrong. I am a nobody in this big world and not nearly smart enough to decode reality, I just have my own preferences and biases which make me lean towards one specific explanation more.
Deezebee@reddit
Who else is supposed to be the judge for what is the most believable if not me? Would you be happier if I said that I decide that the most believable thing is what experts say (the people who dedicate their life to studying and doing research in their respective areas of expertise), in this case geologists and paleontologists?
Deezebee@reddit
Who else is supposed to be the judge for what is the most believable if not me? Would you be happier if I said that I decide that the most believable thing is what experts say (the people who dedicate their life to studying and doing research in their respective areas of expertise), in this case geologists and paleontologists? Then my answer is the same: tectonic plate movement.
RedJuicy713@reddit
You dont need evidence just faith
LostEditorTheCrab@reddit
1.) If god lies, we have no reason not to believe him anyway.
2.) Does knowing exactly what happened millions of years in the past improve our society in the current day? Does it help you raise children that will benefit society?
I will refuse further interaction unless you provide evidence beyond reasonable doubt that you're not a bot.
camelyoga@reddit
then you shouldn’t have replied in the first place. either answer the question or fk off.
camelyoga@reddit
then you shouldn’t have replied in the first place. either answer the question or fûck off.
ThisTooWasAChoice@reddit
You can’t redeem yourself. Only light can overcome the dark.
Hell is worshipping gods made of feeling: euphoria, rage, lust, pride. Those who chase highs will forever be haunted by the lows they summon.
Belief in God is a choice. If you choose not to believe, so if you prefer your Hell, He won’t take offense. But the moment you’ve had enough, He’ll be waiting. Always. Peace is in your hands.
itsSmalls@reddit
no
you can't redeem yourself. Christ died because of that fact and redemption is in Him
no, lots of people reject God, you're only one of them
it's entirely possible and you wouldn't be the first
without the Holy Spirit prompting your conscience, why would you? You don't care for God's laws so why would your conscience be offended by your rebellion?
no one is in hell because they jerked off and no one is in Heaven because they didn't. We all fall short of the glory of God and our response to the life raft that is Christ is the only metric for our salvation
hazelnuthobo@reddit
I have 2 different friends who were kicked out of their homes before they were 18 due to being gay. I think they’ve earned their trauma.
Heisenberger68@reddit
I’m a Christian who acknowledges that acting upon homosexual desires is sinful. Nevertheless, the parents certainly shouldn’t have thrown out their kids and it pains me that they thought that that was the Christian thing to do.
apoorlydrawndragon@reddit
Maybe wait until you're 18 to say you're gay lol. Like how hard could it be to pretend to be straight as a teenager. It's not like their parents were forcing them to have sex with girls.
hazelnuthobo@reddit
I know, right. Almost like they were dumb kids or something. Really, it's their fault for assuming their parents would be there for them unconditionally.
apoorlydrawndragon@reddit
Unconditional love doesn't mean you support bad decisions. If you believe homosexuality is evil, like many religious people do, why would you embrace homosexuality in your children. I bet they'd be mad if he killed a bunch of people too (shocked face emoji)
Bum_King@reddit
I’m sure that was the only reason too…
hazelnuthobo@reddit
I’ve known these guys close to 20 years. It is the only reason. They’re good dudes. It was essentially “you’re choosing to be gay, and we can’t support that, so we’re kicking you out.”. Bible belt goes hard.
Maybe_this_time_fr@reddit
Based
angus22proe@reddit
based
OneEnvironmental9222@reddit
Yeah but you dont see them posting on reddit
Daddy_Parietal@reddit
Nice try
Evil_Patriarch@reddit
I had to go to church every Sunday and made lots of friends with the other kids in Sunday School and even got my first handjob from a pretty girl at a church-hosted youth retreat
you have no idea how traumatic it was!
Aggravating_Mark_229@reddit
Yea, popped my cherry on a work trip to fix shitty homes in an area that a hurricane had come through. Work all day, do some church service that evening, then spend the rest of the evening trying to get your dick wet with other horny teenagers and minimal supervision. Shit was great.
RenegadeNorth2@reddit
what denomination
Aggravating_Mark_229@reddit
Methodist
McGuineaRI@reddit
My catholic CCD (catechism) classes were one of the highlights of my youth. Getting into small groups with my peers, kids I barely knew from school at first, and getting to know them and having in-depth important deep discussions let by adults was definitely healthy for the development of my young brain.
bcarls23@reddit
Yeah man I’m a protestant and youth group was great having a free friend group to fuck around with especially with me being too awkward to be in the loop with school drama was amazing
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
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TNTyoshi@reddit
So are you going to take your kids to that same church organization?
LostEditorTheCrab@reddit
"they would have made a big stink and made it a public event!" you have never been to church. all they will say is to repent, and likely that they have similar issues with falling into sin. "She will probably stop going because she was told not to sin." lol. I will refuse any further interaction unless you can confirm beyond reasonable doubt you're not a bot.
perfectiontv@reddit
Only time I went to a youth retreat with the Sunday school I got beaten up by older kids because I threw a frisbee into their soccer game
stationhollow@reddit
Skill issue
Jonercel@reddit
Atheists seething now
OneEnvironmental9222@reddit
My church school made us go to places like Europa Park or Legoland and pretty much left us on our own. You have no idea how long it took me to deal with this trauma
AlphaMassDeBeta@reddit
Based. My COE school took us to some shitty palace to learn literature skills.
Didnt really learn much.
TessaigaVI@reddit
I don’t know what kinda churches people are going to. My church was full of sex, teen pregnancy and drugs. Everyone was fucking someone.
NachoNutritious@reddit
I remember when Atheism was a default sub, there was a highly upvoted post where a guy telling the story of how he let go of religion.
He was playing a video game on Sunday morning as a kid and his Mom told him to get ready, he kept playing so she unplugged the console without him saving. That was the reason.
Added bonus: the post was in rage comic form.
-holier-than-mao-@reddit
2011, a magical time.
Maz2742@reddit
Back when the biggest global news story was fucking Arab Spring instead of the 87 different layers of bullshit vying for the top spot WWE-style
spenway18@reddit
I renounced God when I learned my parents were both abusive liars and there was no hope for finding happiness in my existence. But video games are cool too ngl
AntDracula@reddit
Yeah not being allowed to sleep into 11am every day is abusive, you poor thing.
spenway18@reddit
My dad beat my mom and lied about it but I had the eepies so yeah ur probz rights
AntDracula@reddit
If they were both abusive why did you only list your dad here then?
Astolfo_is_Best@reddit
Skill issue
spenway18@reddit
Thanks i had a good laugh
-drumroll-@reddit
God can be real and not necessarily the same as what modern Christianity preaches. Jesus seems like a pretty cool guy either way (even if he was a schizo) and most of the morally objectionable stuff is in the Old Testament, which was a later addition to the Christian Bible at the behest of... take a guess ;)
Maybe_this_time_fr@reddit
Sounds like your parents are just pathetic, like you.
token_internet_girl@reddit
You don't have to renounce a thing that doesn't exist, you can just go about your life. Maybe talk to someone about your parents idk.
RedditHatesFreedoms@reddit
☝️🤓
back_reggin@reddit
I can only award you 5 victim points. If you'd mentioned that you are some kind of minority I could've gone to 8, so maybe consider that for future posts.
KOCEnjoyer@reddit
Sounds like self pity
GlitteringFutures@reddit
Remember Reddit Faces of Atheism?
NachoNutritious@reddit
I try not to
ATPsynthase12@reddit
False and homosexual.
Cmon bro, if you’re gonna make up stories, at least get the websites right. You can’t upvote on 4chan
schmitzel88@reddit
It is difficult to explain how popular rage comics were to anyone who wasn't around at the time. f7u12 was one of the biggest subreddits and then just completely died
NachoNutritious@reddit
It’s also hard to explain how persuasive the idea “nothing is ever removed from the internet” was from the early 00s to mid 10s. So many sites have gone dark and YouTube channels removed and other shit, there’s barely any remnants of 10s-era Internet culture remaining.
CremousDelight@reddit
It's out there in someone's hard drive, just gotta find the guy.
SightWithoutEyes@reddit
He got sent to prison and isn't allowed around schools any more.
Legend13CNS@reddit
I think the big change was the centralization of hosting and bastardization of search results. Stuff isn't on separate sites nearly as often these days, and the costs for keeping a site going are higher. Search engines don't seem to index that kind of thing either anymore (even before AI started ruining the results). I can't remember the last time I came across a search result that was a "zombie site", like an old blog that hasn't been updated since 2007. That used to happen all the time, especially for car stuff.
Also imho the main use of that phrase was towards posting nsfw content online, where it was pretty true. If you posted something nsfw that wasn't a good idea, that content would be around the world twice before you realized and tried to take it down.
Limp_Classroom_2645@reddit
because people started to use it as "dear diary" instead of actual comics, with lame ass walls of text more than anything, and it was the most boring ass shit you could think off on top of that.
TelevisionTerrible49@reddit
Dumbass young me probably thought it was genius
token_internet_girl@reddit
Sounds like ragebait maybe, but honestly when you're forced to grow up around people who talk to invisible friends and take it very seriously, that's bound to make anyone a little unhinged and annoying when dealing with the realization.
AntDracula@reddit
Post fedora
Eonir@reddit
That's as good of a reason as anyone else's reason to believe in that bullcrap
AntDracula@reddit
Post fedora
here4astolfo@reddit
that was bait not real religious trauma.
AntDracula@reddit
Post fedora
AntDracula@reddit
LMAO what a dork
HugePurpleNipples@reddit
I consider myself an atheist but I generally don’t admit to it because people assume I’m dumb and angry. It’s a fair assumption for a lot of reasons.
AbIaZoLUTEMadMaN28@reddit
Nothing will ever top the "Faces of rrrAtheism." You can still find them, if you can handle the cringe.
longfoot@reddit
"God died with my super smash brothers game that day."
AnchorTea@reddit
Added bonus: This is bullshit
NachoNutritious@reddit
The only reason I remember it was because he made sure to have the final panel being this face reflected in the now-black TV screen.
Expensive_Bid_7255@reddit
Can you find it?
Prophet112668@reddit
I wish this camelyoga retard in the comments section gets shot for thinking that no one taking him seriously is a "Gotcha!" moment for atheism.
Not_Bernie_Madoff@reddit
Dude I’m reading their replies.. they seem so exhausting.
Prophet112668@reddit
Ikr
MaskedAnathema@reddit
Or maybe it's the legions of children who are driven to suicidal ideation by being forced to adhere to an impossible and inhumane standard of living.
Fuck off Christcuck
_Rook_Castle@reddit
"Do unto others"
Impossible and inhumane
SilliusS0ddus@reddit
clearly not what they meant but go ahead
MaskedAnathema@reddit
More like
"prostrate yourself eternally before an unseeable unknowable entity who will never prove that it's there, have no sexual desire, give us your money and ignore that our priests live in (relative to the time) luxury while you live in squalor, know your place in society and never try to rise above it, always have faith even when there's zero evidence for any of the things we're teaching, women must submit to their husbands and fathers because they aren't real people."
There's more to it but those are some of the big ones.
Evil_Patriarch@reddit
It's amazing how easy it is to tell when someone learned everything they know about religion from reddit and has never actually spent time around religious people
Renegadeknight3@reddit
It’s amazing how easy it is to tell when someone knows nothing about the experience of being in the out-group when surrounded by religious people
NuclearOrangeCat@reddit
Your protestant church located in your shopping mall is not 99% of the religious experience, kid
camelyoga@reddit
cite proof of the global flood and the ark.
stationhollow@reddit
I mean, there are stories of a great flood in multiple ancient societies in the Middle East including the story of Gilgamesh.
camelyoga@reddit
what about the ark?
Rws4Life@reddit
Dumbass tard doesn't know that wood rots
NuclearOrangeCat@reddit
camelyoga@reddit
in other words: “i have no evidence”.
thanks.
NuclearOrangeCat@reddit
in other words: you're gay and retarded
thanks.
camelyoga@reddit
that nonsense comes straight from the bible.
MaskedAnathema@reddit
Yeah aside from the 18 years I was forced to be in religious groups that tormented me (punching, kneeing me in the back, pushing me into urinals, etc) because I was small and weak and an easy target (since I was a year younger than other kids in my grade), and then every time I complained about the bullying was told that it couldn't have happened because the youth pastors would never have allowed it.
Seek rope and rafters strong enough to hold your gigantic cunt.
hunterwillian@reddit
I have, they're all retarded.
cocoelgato@reddit
According to whom?
Thats a really moronic take on hundreds of religions spanning all of human existence.
But sure buddy you know the absolute truth. You are smarter than everyone else
GuardBreaker@reddit
typical fucking polak response, you act like the way your and my parents do, with the "you are smarter than everyone else" line, I heard it all the time growing up, and it's literally "I know I can't win this argument through intellect, so I will gaslight and manipulate them with emotions." tactics lol.
"what was before the observable universe?" what is even the relevance of this question? literally trying to get a "aha, gotcha!"?
cocoelgato@reddit
Typical edgelord cope who thinks he is the first atheist since richard dawkins....
Well, you are stating you know exactly what lies beyond the observable universe. At least you claim to know how "others are wrong".
So own up to your assumptions
camelyoga@reddit
we don’t know what existed before the observable universe and we do know that the bible contradicts several scientific findings.
ReynAetherwindt@reddit
If there's hundreds of contradictory religions, they are probably all wrong.
cocoelgato@reddit
They all have the same unifying theme. You just need basic comprehension skills and 0 bigotry to see.
All roads lead to rome...
ReynAetherwindt@reddit
You mean "Do genocide unto others?"
gestures broadly at Canaanite genocide
The biblical God can't follow his own standards.
LegionaryMartinus@reddit (OP)
ReynAetherwindt@reddit
You say this as if killing every last Canannite wasn't both inclusive of and several steps up from sacrificing babies.
Don't kill kids. There's no "unless you onclude the rest of the family" that justifies it.
LegionaryMartinus@reddit (OP)
LMAO the Canaanites deserved what they fucking got. In fact, God didn't go far enough. Those pieces of shits were genociding tribes left and right.
Rydagod1@reddit
What about the babies of the canannites? Were they spared?
stationhollow@reddit
I dunno. Ask the caanites. They seemed pretty pro baby killing. There were probably no babies left when God rocked up. That’s why he was pissed.
stationhollow@reddit
Doesn’t even know bout the New Testament smh
AntDracula@reddit
go back
watergosploosh@reddit
Bruh your god doesn't even meddle how you live. Muslim and Jewish god meddle with even what you can eat and what you can't.
MaskedAnathema@reddit
You know that the Jewish, Muslim, and Christian gods are all the same guy right?
OneMoreName1@reddit
You can do better than that.
Those 3 religions teach very different theologies about who God is and what he is like, just because they all use the same word and share some concepts doesn't mean they refer to the same entity.
stationhollow@reddit
Same highway. Different exits.
throwaway3point4@reddit
"they all say 'one God' therefore its all the same!" - word/concept fallacy
MaskedAnathema@reddit
They literally all worship Yahweh, are you retarded?
watergosploosh@reddit
Yes but doctrines are different.
AntDracula@reddit
Post fedora
CMGwameA@reddit
Funny because atheists have higher suicide rates
Nocebola@reddit
More men are atheists.
Arete34@reddit
Ok liberal gun owner.
Flashlight_Inspector@reddit
Actual religious trauma is when youn girls in Jamaica are forced to jump over bonfires naked while surrounded by a bunch of strangers they don't even know because some pervert said that it'd banish the demon possessing them (they got diagnosed with a mental disorder that has no major affect on how they live their life).
Redditors religious trauma was having to wake up early on a weekend during Summer vacation to go to service
Rws4Life@reddit
And this is why the Church should have been harsher on heresies.
AConfusedLama@reddit
I for one wish I could unironicaly believe. Seems like faith in some higher purpose or being would make life more berable. I was raised strictly atheistic, almost redditor tier, so believing does not come very natural. The big religions also dont realy entice me much, they are all so clearly based on some historical facts obscured by mysticism which makes them hard for me to take seriously.
Rws4Life@reddit
"God, I want to believe. Help me in my unbelief." - and then some day you'll be like "Oh shit, it worked" when you least expect it. Worked on me, maybe it will work on you too
OneMoreName1@reddit
I was similar to you a couple of years ago. Just keep seeking honestly.
I found a couple of content creators that explained things in a way that finally made sense, I started reading the Bible on my own, and finally cleared up lots of misconceptions about the religion, and built up some true understanding which left a lot of space for faith and trust in God, to the point I can't even imagine how I couldn't see this before, and my past worldview seems silly now.
Good luck
ButlerWimpy@reddit
The more you practice belief it the easier it gets. It's not like flipping a switch. The mind is surprisingly inflexible in the short term, in that we almost never actually change our minds about anything if it conflicts with our prior habits or worldview. We've evolved to save ourselves the mental taxation of continually forming beliefs around new information, so we take the shortcut of whatever's made sense for us in the past, even if it's objectively wrong. However, the mind is also surprisingly malleable in the long term, but it takes habits and reinforcement to create a new "normal." Functionally, what you "believe" isn't what you say you believe, but what you've made a habit of engaging in your thoughts and actions over time.
pVom@reddit
Gotta practice those mental gymnastics and before you know it you're doing a quadruple backflip over nuance and facts
ButlerWimpy@reddit
(you)
Floridamanfishcam@reddit
For me, I had to experience things science could not explain before I could believe. Before that, I was almost militantly against the idea. You may be the same so I pray that God shows you something like that so your heart is softened like mine was.
ButlerWimpy@reddit
For me, basically just the miracle of human consciousness and an infinitely vast, complex and mysterious universe provides more than enough scientific dead-ends that no one without a religious viewpoint can ever answer. But a lot of atheists just seem to ignore that.
Rydagod1@reddit
Similar story for me. I was raised religious and left it because I just never believed anything at any point. I don’t seem capable of believing in something I can’t reasonably think is real. I truly want Christianity or some religion with a good afterlife and a benevolent god to exist. I want to go to a ‘church’ and be a part of a loving, good community but I can’t because I genuinely don’t buy any of it.
ButlerWimpy@reddit
The thing people misunderstand is that a "belief" isn't just something you decide to have. It takes time and practice, just like anything. Your perception of reality isn't actually based on "objective fact," because we are not computers or robots. "Beliefs" are basically meaningless without action, so in practice your beliefs are defined by what you do, i.e. your habits.
Think about how our vision works. If you wear glasses with a small mark on them (and keep completely still) for long enough, the mark will disappear. In fact, we have an "invisible" blind spot in our eyes at all times due to the spot where the optic nerve exits, but we don't perceive it because our brain edits it out for us.
"Reasoned" perception of reality works the same way. We don't actually make "beliefs" based on information, we make beliefs based on reinforcement. If you make a habit of something, your brain will adapt to it and then you will "believe" it. We're not as rational as we think ourselves to be.
FentmaxxerActual@reddit
I get where your argument it coming from but it kinda sounds like just psyoping yourself to seeing something that isn't there lol
stationhollow@reddit
If the end result is you end up happier with a more fulfilling life, is it really a bad thing?
ButlerWimpy@reddit
Yep, that's the thing. There's no alternative where you don't get to make a choice, so why not pursue the reality that leads to the best outcome?
FinancialElephant@reddit
I don't agree. There is no choice to be made. People are pursuing the best version of reality they can conceive of, that is all. No one would ever choose the worse over the better, there is no choice to be made. Even an insane person is driven by their own twisted logic.
The only difference is the ability to see, that's what drives differences in decisions (all else being equal).
Reinforcing beliefs obscures your ability to see, because you only believe in things when you don't know them. Reinforcing beliefs not only gives you false knowledge that obscures your view of reality, it makes you think you believe you know when you don't.
Peace is found by going in the opposite direction, in de-conditioning yourself so that your view of reality is more complete.
ButlerWimpy@reddit
The problem is that our mortal perception is so limited within an infinitely mysterious universe that we can never truly "know" anything. You can follow your intellect and "trust the science" but unfortunately, even in 2025, no one has it all figured out. No one understands the "true" nature of reality, so we have to choose what to believe.
Reality is infinite, so there is no such thing as "more complete" or "less complete." Percentage-wise, your understanding and perception of reality is always going to stay the same, no matter what knowledge you gain. This is why belief is more important than knowledge.
ButlerWimpy@reddit
You basically are psyopping yourself, yes. But here's the question: would you rather be "psyopped" by yourself, or by others? Or by the winds of fate? "Objective" reality doesn't really exist, so would you rather be consciously steered in your subjective perception, or unconsciously? There is no alternative. You aren't going to just "exist" in an objective reality and absorb objective information. That's unfortunately not how the universe works, or how our minds work.
FinancialElephant@reddit
This project sounds like self-delusion through practice.
ButlerWimpy@reddit
What is "delusion" if reality is subjective anyway?
FinancialElephant@reddit
To answer your question, you have to make a semantic distinction between ultimate reality and subjective experience. Your conflating your subjective experience with ultimate reality, when the truth is you don't know if they're the same.
What I can say is that ultimate reality must exist. It would be illogical to say existence doesn't exist or reality isn't real. Ones subjective experience may not be ultimately real, but this doesn't diminish the fact that ultimate reality must exist.
Delusion is to believe that which isn't true. This is somewhat redundant because even "true" beliefs have a conditioned truth to them, but that is too involved to get into here.
Practically, we have beliefs just to get through life (eg other drivers on the road will follow the rules). I'm not against that.
But to consciously add beliefs to your core identity is like clogging up your house with unnecessary garbage that obscures your vision and makes you constantly bump into things. People have plenty of delusion in them already without needing to add more.
ButlerWimpy@reddit
*You're Almost stopped reading there but whatever.
I'm not conflating "ultimate reality" with "my reality" because "ultimate reality" does not exist. "Reality," i.e. the Universe, is infinite, so it can never be satisfactorily observed or defined by a finite brain. There are only finite perceptions within that infinite reality which we can never perceive in totality.
You can say that "truth" exists logically in that it accords to a set of facts, but there are an infinite amount of facts in an infinite universe, and we have a finite capacity to perceive a finite number of facts. You choose which facts to perceive, and this constructs your reality, but despite that the internal logic of those facts may be consistent, there are an infinite number of potentially contrary facts you must necessarily ignore in order construct that perception. This is the nature of an infinite and infinitely complex universe.
In regards to beliefs being useful, this is why you should follow your conscience so that the beliefs that lead to the most favorable outcome (in accordance with your conscience) become ingrained. Your conscience leads you through the infinite universe towards the limited set of perceptions that leads to the best outcome in the long term.
Rydagod1@reddit
I can totally accept that we don’t know everything there is to know and that previous knowledge has been wrong before, so that could still be the case today. But how can we know anything at all if we no longer place importance on what we believe to be facts? If I were to practice belief in the way you suggested, would I not be equally likely to fall into some insane fringe cult as I would a mainstream religion?
ButlerWimpy@reddit
That's a good question, and I don't know if I can answer it definitively but I have some ideas. For me, the answer lies in what we call the conscience. I think in the modern age, the tendency is to, somewhat egotistically, deify our own ability for reason, i.e. the human intellect. However, due to the ultimately subjective and infinite nature of reality, it's quite easy for us to intellectually justify our thoughts and actions, despite that they may be morally wrong (a.k.a. against our conscience). The universe is infinite in size and complexity, to the extent that its true nature is beyond our human perception. There are an infinite number of reasons for things to be or not be, to happen or not happen, and if we use our intellect, we can choose an angle and steer ourselves in whatever direction we want, and justify it. However, without a conscience, this intellectualizing is meaningless. The conscience is what collapses an infinity of subjectivity into the objective perception that aims toward the highest good.
So, for me, the purpose of organized religion is (or should be) to help articulate, understand, foster and encourage the natural force of the conscience that already exists inherently within us. So, if it seems arbitrary which religion is "correct," for me the answer is in whichever organization aligns with the inner force of conscience, which gives us all the inherent knowledge of how to aim for the highest good, IF we earnestly listen to it. For me, it's important that this "alignment" concerns not just stated beliefs, but actions, and the outcome of those actions (because, in my understanding, the truth of belief is inseparable from action).
Personally, I don't believe that a tribesman in Africa who has never heard of Christ is damned to Hell, so long as he acted in accordance with his God-given conscience. However, I think it is much more difficult for those who don't have knowledge of Christ or organized religion to successfully follow their conscience, due to human fallibility.
Anyway, I think it all comes down to intently listening to what your conscience tells you, but doing that intently and with clarity is easier said than done.
Rydagod1@reddit
Thank you for the well thought out response. One thing I can’t reconcile is your belief that reality is subjective but our perception of it is. I would say the exact opposite.
As for the universe becoming chaotic without objective morality, I’m a determinist so to me there is no such thing as chaos. But if determinism isn’t true, then I have no problem with a random chaotic universe.
I’m not sure what you mean by differentiating intellect from conscience. To me, these are the same thing or 2 sides of the same coin because our rationality and feelings influence each-other. I’m curious what you think ‘conscience’ is. Is it another word for a soul?
Lastly, how do you determine what is moral and what is not? Different groups can have very different moral outlooks.
ButlerWimpy@reddit
Part of why I see it that way is because of how I understand the universe to be infinite. It's not only infinite in size, but also complexity, meaning that basically every aspect of it could be described in infinite detail, and there are an infinite number of things that could be described in infinite detail. And these details could be perceived in an infinite number of ways. It's so complex that our "rules" for how we understand to describe and track things (physics) break down at the upper and lower limits. So this brings us to the question of perception. There are an infinite number of things you could choose to perceive at any given time. Time, however, is finite, and our ability for perception is finite. We can only really do or think one thing at any given time.
Think about this: How long would it take you to describe every single choice you could possibly make right now? If given an infinite amount of time, you would be able to describe an infinite amount of thoughts and actions. And you could do that about every moment for the rest of your life. Essentially, we create our own reality through our choices in perception.
This is what I mean when I say reality is subjective. It is subjective because it is infinite. However, we humans are finite, so our perceptions are also finite, and we are steered through a subjective and infinite reality through our choices.
Intellect is our ability to reason. We take facts, i.e. observations, track them, pair them with each other, and make logical conclusions.
Conscience is the inherent force within every human that tells us whether the choices we are making are good or bad. It is separate from intellect.
Say I want to go commit a crime. Using my intellect, I can come up with any number of reasons for why I commit that crime. Perhaps an infinite number of reasons. And if I am able to successfully track, pair and link certain observations about reality into that justification, then my reason for committing the crime will be logically sound. If I trust my intellect more than my conscience, then I will follow my justification and commit the crime. In my understanding, this is basically how all crime and injustice comes into the world. There's always the wrinkle of "mental illness," but essentially, no one ever does anything wrong for "no reason." The only reason anyone takes an action is because they have justified that action in their mind, either consciously or unconsciously.
However, conscience is the force that tells us whether those justifications are right or wrong. Conscience isn't just something to help us "reason" whether or not a choice will have a "good outcome," because it exists outside of reason. It is simply inherent to our consciousness (note the root of that word) as sapient beings. Without conscience, the reasoned idea of a "good outcome" can be described in infinite ways and become meaningless. This is what I mean when I say the conscience takes the infinity of subjectivity and collapses it into a single objective truth.
It's similar, but I think it would be more accurate to say a soul is something that has a conscience. Personally, I don't think animals have souls because I don't think they are conscious in the same way humans are. But I wouldn't say I'm sure about that either. Incidentally, I don't think it matters if you consider what I'm describing as conscience as "supernatural" or just a consequence of evolution because the outcome is the same. But that's another rabbit hole.
Essentially, you follow the conscience. Like I said, this is easier said than done, and I think "different groups," as you put it, have an easier or harder time with it depending on circumstance. I believe it is there inside everyone, regardless of how one has been socialized, but it is harder to follow (or even becomes nearly impossible) without guidance. There are a lot of different social norms throughout history and throughout the world, but it also becomes clear, when you pay attention to sociology, which societies are more successful than others, and which cultural values successfully replicate and propagate across time. Those that align with the natural conscience propagate while others generally stagnate or eventually decline.
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FinancialElephant@reddit
Look into Dr. Jeffery Martin, he has surveyed hundreds of people and basically found that the "peace that passeth understanding" that some religious people have is basically unrelated to their beliefs.
Some of these people will adamantly say that "Jesus is the only way" or whatever, but then there are others who gained a similar or even greater peace through an entirely different path. You have Christians, other religions, atheists, etc. Belief is unrelated to any of it.
When it does work, the religious beliefs (eg in God) just help people surrender so they stop clinging to a world that is impermanent and unsatisfying. You don't need to believe in God to do this, you just need to let go, surrender to reality (ie see it as it is), and allow your conditioning to fall away. It's basically about ridding yourself of false identities.
Nathan_hale53@reddit
This shit lame
AstroError@reddit
It is my God-given right to whore myself out!
OneEnvironmental9222@reddit
People love to claim how the Satanic panic apperently made religion (they never specificy which) somekinda oppressive world power that censored everyones life.
Then you actually look up and at worst it was some minor special cases and just a loud minority. Only australia ever seems to have fallen for it but you never hear it due to religious reasons.
big_whistler@reddit
Religions had been pretty oppressive in some centuries preceding that time as well.
OneMoreName1@reddit
That narrative is ridiculously overblown. Yeah some events happened, no we didn't live in some warhammer 40k cult where you were burnt for the smallest sign of disbelief.
The Catholic church was actually quite open minded, it created modern science after all, and Galileo Gallilei only got in trouble because he presented his theory as the unquestionable truth lacking the necessary evidence, got told to fix his approach, refused and started to badmouth the pope in writing.
big_whistler@reddit
I don’t think the inquisition and the witch trials were overblown. Just because they weren’t 40k comically evil doesn’t mean they were not oppressive.
OneMoreName1@reddit
I do believe they were overblown, they weren't an universal event in all christendom, or in all countries. The average person is under the impression that for thousands of years, if you slightly said the wrong thibg you got the rake, while in reality it was a couple of years maybe decades in a small part of Europe.
big_whistler@reddit
Firstly, you are arguing against a strawman. I am not saying that every minor thing got you burned at the stake, so it is a waste of your time to argue against that.
Separately, it was by no means just in Europe. The colonies that became the US famously had some witch trials, but also had oppressive governments where the state was not separate from the church. You could be punished by law for not following their religion.
And the way that religion was used against indigenous populations in the Americas and Africa is also oppressive. People being forced to convert and practice, children being raised in these residential schools that force you to be christian and lose your own culture. The ones in Canada they keep finding mass graves behind. Not every colony had the same rules or same kind of oppression, but Christianity was involved in plenty of them.
OneEnvironmental9222@reddit
People also thought bad breath spread the plague. Your point?
big_whistler@reddit
What you said is irrelevant
OneEnvironmental9222@reddit
Ricegum voice: YOU'RE IRRELEVANT
big_whistler@reddit
I’m not zoomer enough for this one I think
xxHikari@reddit
I don't have religious trauma. I just know religion is dogshit .
Brussel_Rand@reddit
There's definitely some real religious trauma and guilt stuff out there. Sure some people are screeching about having to go to church on Sunday or being told Harry Potter was the devil, but then you have all the fun business that a church like the Jehovah's Witnesses get up to. It is a real point of therapy for people to work on something as small as guilt for masturbation, but the severe end of things happens. Imagine having to shun your daughter as part of Church orders because she accused an Elder of SA, but no one thinks it's real because there wasn't a third person there to witness it.
This is one of those reasons why I think gatekeeping is kinda okay to do sometimes because people will enter mental health spaces with concerns that everyone has to treat as "valid."
It's something I have had issues with because I have a couple of mental illnesses that are "popular," like subclinical ADHD. A lot of people out there claim to have it but aren't diagnosed and will preach a lot of unhelpful information about how to treat it. Some people also just use it as a crutch so they can do whatever they what and not be held accountable.
krafterinho@reddit
Fuck off with your rational nuance, religious trauma is only being asked to go to church!!
Several-Chemistry-34@reddit
true
Ultrasaurio@reddit
Based pilled frog
pVom@reddit
"Come on kids, time to get molested by the priest so mummy and daddy can fight their existential dread by pretending there's an imaginary friend in the sky who loves us."
Several-Savings-7596@reddit
Every single time
pVom@reddit
4chan #1 forum for christ cucks
AntDracula@reddit
Post fedora
billofbong0@reddit
I remember when people on 4chan would make fun of you if you just posted mainline republican viewpoints
angus22proe@reddit
not everyone is a yank
R0CK-STAR@reddit
I'm glad millennials are finally getting called out on their cringe.
FinancialElephant@reddit
This has been happening for like 20 years, hasn't seemed to change their behavior at all
here4astolfo@reddit
if everything is cringe can you actually call anything cringe.
token_internet_girl@reddit
It's become a meaningless word like hipster to encompass "thing I don't like"
ProgKingHughesker@reddit
Maybe the things I don’t like should stop being so caring r
TMWNN@reddit
Everyone wants to be the hero in his own story. The difference is normal people are content to keep in in their imaginations ("If I saw a burning house with people trapped, would I be courageous enough to run inside?"), and not constantly seek out public places/discussions where they can always, always, ALWAYS be the "good guy", the "hero", the "one proven right", "on the right side of history", the one who "epicly pwned the opponent". So many people post their own versions of the atheist professor and chalk copypasta without seeing the similarity.
StarkRavingNormal@reddit
I have been a practicing Catholic my entire life and I was an altar boy for 11 years growing up and I was never, not once, molested or anything.
I was an adorable kid too. Those priests had no idea how bad that is for someone's self esteem.
stationhollow@reddit
Be the change you wish to see in the world
Brave33@reddit
You guys all have shit religion trauma let me tell you mine.
All sundays go to church to learn curated bible stories, fast forward to a "summer camp" of sorts its basically just 1 afternoon in a big house, it was raining the past day so all we did was just walk around and chill until it was time to go home.
One of the priests decides to do that thing where he forgives you in the name of god, enters a room its just him on a plastic chair with another chair in front, room is dark i guess to set up the mood, he listens to your sins yada yada and forgives them, moves on with my life. Later i learned he was arrested because he had P*do content on his computer.
So have you ever had your sins pardoned by a P*do?
stationhollow@reddit
Ez life
ProgKingHughesker@reddit
lol you were too ugly to molest
serial_feet_sniffer@reddit
My family has always been Christian but i never really believed in God. But going to church and meeting people kinda grew on me, it really gave me a lot of connections and pretty girls i can talk to
Despite allat tho i still don't consider myself religious, it's more of a club to me than anything
AvatarADEL@reddit
Some people are just absolutely devoted to their spin off cult huh? Wonder how it got to be like that. Oh well who nose for sure.
AntDracula@reddit
Post nose
grunge_pirate@reddit
pov your iq is low enough to be indoctrinated - good dog
__redruM@reddit
Well GenX “Religious Trauma”, involved sodomy and priests.
SDcowboy82@reddit
Someone’s big mad they are all alone in their imaginary friend playpen
R0CK-STAR@reddit
I have been cringing for like 20 years. I'm glad Gen Z is calling millennials out on this stuff finally.
___disinterested___@reddit
Keep coping religf*g
DecoyOctorok24@reddit
Downvoting due to frog post and broken English.
QueenOfTheNorth1944@reddit
Correct take.
Liebermode@reddit
I love blacks