Echelon kills smart home gym equipment offline capabilities with update
Posted by Blueberryburntpie@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 78 comments
Posted by Blueberryburntpie@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 78 comments
slayernine@reddit
As my info on how to avoid this update? I have one of their bikes.
Clayskii0981@reddit
The qz app dev (links the bike to other apps) recommended deleting the echelon app. It's a firmware update to the bike through the app, that's the only way they'll update you.
impacted_bowel@reddit
I just got the ex8s that comes with a screen. I just turned it on and it required me to log into echelon. Any way around this?
slayernine@reddit
Good call, app deleted. I use the QZ app.
FurnaceGolem@reddit
Just don't connect it to your wifi I guess? I'm assuming that if it can't access the internet it can't get the update
conquer69@reddit
Until they pull some stuxnet shit to jump over the air gap.
Blueberryburntpie@reddit (OP)
A couple years ago, I've read about some smart TVs that would aggressively connect to any open WiFi networks in range if they're not setup with the home network.
No way that could be a security risk. /s
spazturtle@reddit
That was Samsung, if they couldn't connect to the Samsung servers when connected to your Wifi (say you had blocked them) then whilst the TV was 'off' it would try and connect to any available open wifi to grab the latest software updates and update it's ads. I think they have stopped that now.
shugthedug3@reddit
Airgap it if you are happy with how it currently works.
dzsimbo@reddit
Is this our future? Airgapping household items so they can't rent it to us...
windozeFanboi@reddit
Just don't take a shortcut and airgap your home ... Not recommended.
repocin@reddit
That's been a thing ever since they started peddling this "smart home" ewaste. Never connect your TV to the internet if you can avoid it. Creepy amount of telemetry collected for unknown purposes, and that's not really a product you need automatic firmware updates for.
dzsimbo@reddit
It's pretty neat to see the cyberpunk dystopia unfolding.
I'm kinda optimistic for the future, as we have an insane amount of pop culture on the subject with all manners of warnings, bells and whistles, and whatnot. We are going into it with an ailing, but existing immune system. Reddit, an epitome of this culture, carries within it the seeds of a solution. All the degoogling and FOSS corners of the internet are already sharing the solution, before the problem gets a chance to become gangrenous.
'They' are giving us our childhood dream of magically controlling our stuff, and anyone with a finger on the pulse will see that they are actually taking away 'our' stuff. All others will get duped as many times as necessary. Patience is the name, I guess.
conquer69@reddit
Sell old "dumb" items as pre-airgapped.
Creepy-Bell-4527@reddit
Airgap it and use qz instead.
DrGrinch@reddit
Find the domains they serve the updates from and blacklist them in your router or network DNS
scribble94@reddit
Can you still do a "freestyle" workout with the Echelon app? I usually select "start freestyle" within the app.
42MiceInDeepThought@reddit
Just re-confirmed, the older “tablet powered” Bikes like the ex3 still have functionality without a device. Just start pedalling, and you can adjust the resistance. You can’t see the resistance or other metrics, but my garmin watch does a better job with heart rate and calories burned than the app ever did. It would be simple enough to add an rpm counter from Amazon for under ¥20.
AnimalShithouse@reddit
This shit should be illegal
Strazdas1@reddit
This shit is illegal. Noone just bothers enforcing consumer rights.
AF_AF@reddit
And the current administration is removing consumer protections every chance they get.
TheHodgePodge@reddit
Fuck always online live service craps. Companies like this deserves their products to be cracked.
Blueberryburntpie@reddit (OP)
TLDR:
Smart home devices previously had offline capability and supported third party software.
An update broke both of that. Echelon retroactively required their customers to use their subscription-based app, which starts at $40 per month.
mailslot@reddit
My office had a water dispenser that would stop working if it disconnected from WiFi.
-Y0-@reddit
Can't wait for future Pacemaker software to require WiFi. "You have exited the PrimeHeartRange™. Enjoy your free cardiac arrest!!"
Aggressive-Will-4500@reddit
BUZZ
Your subscription will end in 3 days. Would you like to renew now?
BUZZ
Your subscription will end in 3 days. Would you like to renew now?
BUZZ
Your subscription will end in 3 days. Would you like to renew now?
BUZZ
Your subscription will end in 3 days. Would you like to renew now?
BUZZ
Your subscription will end in 3 days. Would you like to renew now?
BUZZ
DarkStarrFOFF@reddit
Soooo just Black Mirror then?
-Y0-@reddit
Worse. Black Mirror assumes your subsciption will work. This just kills you for having shitty Wi-Fi.
Blueberryburntpie@reddit (OP)
Or when there's a natural disaster or a power outage that took down the infrastructure.
MairusuPawa@reddit
That's the signal to get rid of it.
mailslot@reddit
I was so upset. Our previous one was fast, ice cold, filtered, and UV sanitized. The new touch screen one had optional bubbles to dispense La Croix style disappointment.
Techhead7890@reddit
What did the custodians do with the old one? :o
bizude@reddit
Time for a class action lawsuit!
User_2C47@reddit
Their TOS is pretty airtight. They can do whatever they want at their sole discretion, and the only thing you can do about it is discontinue use.
bob-@reddit
Don't quit your day job
RephRayne@reddit
Congratulations, by reading any word of this post you agree to all terms and conditions in my EULA that I won't provide until I need to extract some money out of you.
CentralLimitQueerem@reddit
Lmao just because you put something in an EULA doesn't mean it's legal. Like if the TOS said "we can legally kill you" doesn't mean they can kill you
lawanddisorder@reddit
Just went to Echelonfit.com website and they have some of the most onerous, one-sided Terms & Conditions I can ever recall seeing in a consumer contract.
Naturally there's a mandatory arbitration clause and class action waiver so there's no way to get a lawyer to sue them on contingency to enforce your rights to full use of a product you own
You're completely at their mercy.
Terms and Conditions – Echelon Fit US https://share.google/gIUcIXeG4yZblD8gY
YairJ@reddit
I think those are not necessarily binding.
lawanddisorder@reddit
They are completely binding. Trust me on this one. https://www.jonesday.com/en/insights/2016/01/us-supreme-court-rules-in-favor-of-arbitration-clauses-and-classarbitration-waivers-in-consumer-contracts
Vo_Mimbre@reddit
This is why I don’t use IOT crap. It’s always a pathway to either a crappy app, or a crappy app you need to pay for. There’s always some MBA looking for a promotion who puts together the exact same McKinsey pitch for “customer lifetime value” or whatever the vogue term is. And it always leads to either ads or subscriptions. Because all these uncreative pukes only know how to repeat other uncreative pukes.
Of course, I also don’t work out.
But that’s besides the point ;)
DXPower@reddit
Use open source stuff! /r/homeassistant
Vo_Mimbre@reddit
Huh, that sounds interesting. So I could make things IOT-like using a combination of hardware, softwarre, and techniques described there?
DXPower@reddit
Yup, and there's several companies that make products specifically for the HA ecosystem. It's super nice.
Vo_Mimbre@reddit
Ooh ok. So I’ve always liked the idea but only in principal and separate from the bullshit businesses that pedal “you’re a product” stuff. So this is inspiring. Thanks!
tuura032@reddit
Read up on zigbee, you will probably find that pretty cool. Everything is local!
GenericUser1983@reddit
Same, non of the "smart" features these devices tend to have even seem worth bothering with. Why would you need exercise equipment that connects to anything? Just use the equipment.
Vo_Mimbre@reddit
It’s like “smart TVs”. Sure they have all the things in one place. But it’s mostly a storefront to upsell you. And what it’s selling is renters access to ephemeral streaming you have no ownership of. Surrounded by ads.
But because smartphones made a ton of hardware components super cheap, everything gets a WiFi and Bluetooth capability to “unlock further value for our consumer”.
Except it just shifts the cost from upfront for-profit into forever/cashflow.
MonoShadow@reddit
Technically it's hardware. But does it really belong on this sub?
MairusuPawa@reddit
btw, Echelon also is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON
Stevo32792@reddit
We started using the QZ app because the Echelon tablet constantly reboots and crashes on us. If they’re going to be doing this shit they need to fix their ass tablet software at least…
CrankedOnDaPerc30@reddit
Immediate full refund of the product is what I'd get. Full. No bs. Pull my receipt and return the exact amount.
FujitsuPolycom@reddit
Right now. Holy shit so glad I don't have this bike. I'm furious just reading this
5panks@reddit
Depending on the terms of use you'd probably be entitled to one, but would have to go to small claims court to get it.
kuddlesworth9419@reddit
Terms and contracts mean jack and shit if they break consumer rights.
dragonblade_94@reddit
Assuming US, you would be surprised how abysmally poor our consumer rights are.
AnxiousJedi@reddit
We have consumer rights?
BoiledFrogs@reddit
I don't think many people would be surprised by that.
Stereo-Zebra@reddit
Unsurprised*
kuddlesworth9419@reddit
UK, although at the moment in the Netherlands and Switzerland.
doscomputer@reddit
thats why you'd have to take it to court?
mduell@reddit
That’s why’d you win in small claims court.
account312@reddit
Plus damages.
zakats@reddit
That's 5 years (or less) of interest I'd also need.
freshjewbagel@reddit
Not the first time Echelon has fucked over consumers. owned an ex3 for 18months before it crapped out. support told me it was past the 12month warranty, I said fine, how much for the part? they refused to sell me any parts. they could not recommend a third party repair shop. 100lb of junk
Rortugal_McDichael@reddit
"Echelon," i.e., "We hope people confuse us for Peloton."
I hate the trend of internet connected products. Literally just bought a dumb fridge today. You can't tap to see through the door (just open the fridge), you can't connect it to your "shopping list" (I have a whiteboard next to it), and you can't connect it to anything other than a water line (why would I even want to). Also was much cheaper than any product that has computer chips in it that does any of the above.
SqueezyCheez85@reddit
Why'd they name their company after the infamous domestic spying program?
simo402@reddit
People gotta wake the fuck up tho, and stop purchasing this garbage
anival024@reddit
It wasn't garbage when they purchased it. It was a normal piece of equipment with features they enjoyed that could be used totally offline without subscription.
Then they broke into people's homes and stole that.
Alive_Worth_2032@reddit
Similarly to when TV manufacturers started sneaking adds into the OS after already selling the devices.
shugthedug3@reddit
Sounds like they need sued and some hero hackers need to get to work on a jailbreak.
Clayskii0981@reddit
Some members have already started working on a hacked firmware
shugthedug3@reddit
These sorts of things just feel like a duty for those who can, it's nice.
63volts@reddit
Hope the company gets owned. FULU Foundation offers $20,000 bounty to unbrick echelon bikes.
Creepy-Bell-4527@reddit
Cancelled my subscription and uninstalled the app. Not having equipment I've paid over two times the going rate for bricked for corporate greed, thanks.
shantired@reddit
If you bought a bike from Costco, they’ll take it back
alexsteh@reddit
If these greedy companies keep doing this, then people will start making offline / clean firmware databases.
NoelCanter@reddit
Fuck rent-seeking companies.