I fundamentally disagree:
* US - Effortless torque and historically cheap to repair. Usually comfortable in the right conditions, but only the high-end stuff has a lot of power. Will run poorly longer than most cars will run.
* UK - What remains of the British is luxury, but historically, cheap, primitive, underdeveloped crap run for too long. Basically just American cars, but without any power, and the build quality of the Fremont plant if the Fremont workforce went on strike every 3.2 days. Fun and cheap to fix, though.
* German - Not terribly reliable but maintenance will go a long way. Excellent driving dynamics, historically, and lots of prestige.
* Italian - You don't care if you make it to where you're going, and you want an excellent car that will run 1/9 of the time, and cost a lot. Excellent but awful.
* Japanese - Reliable, economical, and not terribly exciting. But well-made and beyond reproach. This is what you buy when you need a car to live for a long time.
* Korean - Take everything about the Japanese and add a penny-pinching, potentially federal-law-breaking company. They'll warranty the car for a million miles, but if you miss an oil change by 0.1 miles, they'll void that warranty.
Those same workers at the Fremont plant actually produced decent quality cars when Toyota took over in the 1980s. So the issues were mainly with the design of the cars and management.
Japanese cars in general are more tolerant of lax maintenance than European cars. What really harmed the reputation of British, French, and Italian cars in the U.S. is the maintenance. Dealers and mechanics were often unfamiliar with the parts and maintenance and would apply what they are used to on American cars with disastrous results.
Also, French cars are different for the sake of being different.
It wasn't just Toyota. It was a joint venture with GM, resulting in some of the finest cars ever to wear a Chevy badge. But you're right. They were a fine workforce under the direction of a better company.
I'll give you that on the Italians and the French, but I think British cars earned their reputation quite fairly, and there is a reason they don't meaningfully have a car industry anymore. They used English measurements like American cars. They were simple, too. However, they were decidedly retrograde. My MG has lever shocks. It's from 1973, and it has lever shocks. A points ignition, too. They were notably poorly made, too. Even the British admitted they were garbage.
Will run poorly longer than most cars run
Why do people in the (mainly in the US) about american cars? American cars have a terrible rep for reliability worldwide.
Why do Americans, who pay comparatively little for the cars made here, say this about cars they have seen wheezing along twenty years after leaving the factory on little more than a hope and, a prayer, and 20 dollars worth of parts from AutoZone, think that they're hard to kill? While people who spend more on them, and don't have access to the plethora of cheap parts, and see comparatively few of them, don't think so highly?
Gee, I don't know. Looks like you got a mystery on your hands there, Columbo. Hope you can solve it.
All i meant is that if you look in the grand scheme of things, it’s not really a true analysis. American cars are generally not known to last longer than cars from all other nations, including in the US (where Japanese cars have a better reputation and henerally outlast US cars). In Japan and in many countries in Europe etc, american cars don’t have a good rep. That’s all i wanted to say. Weighing in the overall rep of US cars in the US, around the world, reliability statistics etc, i can’t see how they will run poorly longer than other cars will run (though i guess it’s more a cliche, perhaps).
In the grand scheme of things I omitted the French. It was obviously a limited perspective, and I'll never understand the European inability to move away from Eurocentrism.
And you don't see it because you haven't seen a 4.0 AMC spit out a milkshake from its oil pan and then act like nothing ever happened. You haven't seen a 3.8 Buick go 20000 miles on 5 cylinders and no oil changes. You haven't seen a 302 Ford start after 5 years in a field, sucking in air from leaks in its two barrel carb. I've seen American cars shrug off shit that would kill a Terminator, and I'm not the only one.
I hear what you’re saying, i just provided a different view point that yours to the discussion in this thread. Doesn’t mean i don’t respect yours or i suffer from some kind of ignorance.
You're complaining because I didn't take into account the opinions of some random Swedish moose fucker who had a bad experience with his Chevrolet Lacetti, while ignoring that I completely failed to mention France.
> if you miss an oil change by 0.1 miles, they'll void that warranty
I was under the impression that this was all warranties, since that's a pretty clear-cut excuse for any car manufacturer. Idk, I've never had to use a warranty. Do some brands cut customers slack and if so, how much?
Kia has been known to cancel warranties at the drop of a hat. Especially during the time when they had to do the recall on their engines. They would literally monitor your car remotely and cancel the warranty in real time.
It is, to my knowledge, illegal to do so. In order to effectively resist paying on a warranty, you have to show that the failure to comply with the terms of the warranty resulted in the failure that you are now refusing to pay. So to the point about kia, they'd have to show that your failure to get an oil change before the 0.1 miles after the interval ended was the cause of your engine failure, and not the serious manufacturing defect that those engines were known for
It's not. I don't think American cars are, on the whole, particularly powerful or comfortable, and frankly you could accuse Chrysler of attempting to kill the American auto industry, so out goes the patriotism.
I don't think British cars really even exist, and they're not really luxury cars. Sure, what few brands remain alive are luxury, but they're not really British. Rover is the example I want to give. It died for good reason.
Germans: you said driving dynamics over all, I pointed out dynamics, prestige, and ludicrous maintenance requirements.
For the Italians, I didn't say it was the best possible car for your income bracket. That's often the Germans.
For the Japanese, I don't contend they're out of date. I said they're usually boring.
For the Koreans, they're just the Japanese but cheapskates, which you didn't bring up at all.
So it's not just reworded.
Yes, God forbid you participate in the conversation, like you refused to earlier. Better to loudly stand in the corner telling yourself that we all don't know how smart you are.
Alright, I'll bite and do a meme answer.
* **US**: Like the rest of the US, you pay to skip the inconvenience. You can pay $80-100k for something nice or drive a shitbox like all the rest. Perpetually stuck in nostalgia of cheap horsepower and large V8s. Eternally fucked up policy incentives create and perpetuate the SUV and Truck. Don't touch the cheap plastic inside. Big Truck n' cowboy boots *Eagle Screech.*
* **UK**: Don't buy it if the serial number indicates Friday/Monday build date. Notoriously poor quality on all fronts but decent designs. Probably hand-built by a bloke named Jim, he tries his best. He's been hard up for a number of years, we're rooting for him.
* **German**: Fuck your resale value, fuck mechanics, we want to flex our stupid engineering. Iffy on reliability if you don't do OCD levels of preventative maintenance. No we don't care that you have to drop the engine to change the oil, maybe you should buy a new car instead. You should be on a lease or have detailed notes on when you replaced what otherwise you're knowingly setting money on fire.
* **Italian**: Can look and sound amazing but will leave you stranded on the side of the road, despite every other country besides the UK having figured it out. It's 2025 FFS, it shouldn't be 60's UK levels reliability. Low-market Fiat products at least actually work. Everything above that you're rolling the dice that it doesn't explode because mercury was in retrograde and you didn't do your expected daily prayer to Enzo Ferrari.
* **Japanese**: Knows you will be abusing the car, plans it in. Yes, it's outdated but it will be perfectly serviceable over 250k miles. They were in their creative era in the 80's and 90's but gave that up to refocus on the basics until about 5-7 years ago. Have reached meme status due to said 80's and 90's cars. Obligatory Kansei Dorifto.
* **Korean**: You’re getting 90% of the competition for 70% of the price. That 10% being 100% of the car's engine reliability. Probably better to go electric here. Don't ask if the chaebols are doing illegal things like VAG, they probably are. You don't want to know where their battery cells are sourced from or produced. Corner cutting created the Theta II, corner cutting will produce more Theta II style disasters.
My take:
US: Offer as much “stuff” as possible for the money. Space, power, features, etc. Less refined than, say, German cars as a result, but aimed at a customer who doesn’t value refinement as much. Also, designed for American roads. In other words, large, because there’s no reason not to be.
Germany: Make the car as objectively, statistically optimal as possible. Often involves some rather questionable design choices. Engineer everything. Overengineer many things. Lacks soul as a result (most of the time). Sell one design of vehicle with your choice of height, length, and number of doors.
Japan: Wait a few years to see what is successful about the above two strategies, and then implement it in a way so that it will work absolutely forever. Don’t take risks. Or do, and create the Murano CrossCabriolet.
Korea: tries to combine Japan’s quality with US’s value. Gets reasonably close to achieving that goal.
Italy: Appeal to the senses and primordial instincts. Make a car people see and immediately want.
UK: Cool in a subtle, Britishly sarcastic way — but also really not actually sarcastic. Just not trying to hard. Good first impressions, at least. Afterwards, well….
Sweden: don’t offend or hurt anyone. Be safe, comfortable, and with the times. And while doing so, have your own style.
China: Show the US why tariffs are necessary to compete in the EV space, copyright infringement notwithstanding.
I wish Japan was able to keep that reputation without regulations forcing them to switch. Toyota/Lexus took a nosedive because they were forced to abandon the NA V6 and V8. And they caved on screens in Lexus interiors.
One of your glaring mistakes here is jumping to the conclusion of lumping the Canadians in with the USA. Canadians are far more frugal, seek value, and are open to imports.
> Obviously there are outliers (like Mini and Tesla), but would you agree with this for the most part? Any changes?
I think your stereotyping to an enormous degree lol.
2024 Top selling US Vehicles - F-Trucks, Silverado, RAV4, Model Y, Honda CRV, RAM truck, GMC Sierra.
Two low powered, basic Japanese (tho US built) CUVs are in the top. If you want to stereotype it's Trucks. Yank Tanks.
You can call that "going for comfort and power", but it's more about the form factor. I can guarantee the most powerful trims are not the most popular.
Just leave it as Truck.
I wouldn’t consider the Rav4 and CRV as american cars. If you go on the GMC Sierra website, the 3 “key features” advertised specs are torque, towing capacity, and hands free. Directly below that is a comment on “american ingenuity”. It’s the same for all the other trucks. They want to advertise power and comfort.
The japanese vehicles can’t really advertise reliability because it’s hard to do so legally, but they also add in efficiency which I forgot to mention.
> wouldn’t consider the Rav4 and CRV as american cars
Oh I get that.
And you're right they don't fit the mould but they are American built and Americans love them!!!!
> If you go on the GMC Sierra website, the 3 “key features” advertised specs are torque, towing capacity, and hands free. Directly below that is a comment on “american ingenuity”. It’s the same for all the other trucks. They want to advertise power and comfort.
If I was being annoying I'd say well that's what sets each truck apart cause a truck in inherently an uncomfortable work vehicle.
Cheap power is what sets a Corvette apart from a Ferrari - no doubt. But plenty of cars and trucks have powerful engines.
But I really do think that the unique part do the US market is trucks.
CUVs and SUVs are popular everywhere but everywhere else in the world they top out at Hilux / Navara sized.
US - The land of extremes. Extreme awesome and extreme crap at the same time. Want a fast car? Hell yeah brother. The interior may suck, or it may handle like an aircraft carrier, but it's fast as shit. Want a pick up truck? We got the best in the world... But we focused on it so much, we completely forgot how to make sedans.
Japan - Building cars for the consumer who wants one to last 20 years. Engineered for easy serviceability. Long term reliability is paramount. You pay a little more than Korean cars, but you get the peace of mind knowing that it was done right.
Germany - Building cars for maximum quality for the consumers who wants one for 2 years. Zero fucks given about long term serviceability. Screw the 3rd owner. We only make money off the first buyer, and they are trading it in for a brand new X5 in 2 years.
Korea - Just build Japanese cars and add a little bit of tech goodies. Undercut Japan on price for equivalent models. Skimp on reliability to make it happen.
Italy - You have one job. Make it cool. That's literally the only thing people buy Italian cars for. So ignore reliability and practicality. Also ignore common sense in ergonomics and UI. Just make sure its cool.
UK - We know you did your best. Do you have anything left that isn't owned by Germany or India? If there's anything left that's still British... Plucky, would be the right word?
UK - not exclusively. Other cars built in the UK in volumes are Toyota Corolla, Nissan Juke and Qashqai (think they are tooling up for the Leaf), Stellantis small vans.
Those aren’t british cars though. They are cars happened to be made in the UK. British cars are: rolls royce, bentley, jaguar, land rover, lotus, aston martin, mini, and vauxhall. End of list.
How do you define British? None of those companies are British owned!
Vauxhall is a “British” brand but hasn’t developed its own cars that are not rebadges of an Opel (and now Peugeot) in 40 years - and Stellantis builds the same van badged as a Vauxhall/ Opel/Peugeot/Citroen in the UK.
The Nissan Juke and Qashqai have both been developed, designed and engineered in the UK, as well as being built in the UK. They are more “British”than any of the other cars you mention.
FIATs are usually the best simple reliability you can have. As in, they may not last 300k miles, but anything that breaks until you get there is very simple to fix. The major exception is the 500 line, which unfortunately is the only FIAT peoppe know in the US.
reputations in the other direction:
us: glue these rusty parts together and see how long it holds
uk: holy shit you scared me, i thought you were already dead
german: delicate engineering requiring delicate upkeep
italian: it was fun while it lasted
japanes: my calendar still shows that we are in 2010s
korean: you get what you paid for
chinese: spy! subsidization! did i mention spy and subsidization?
vietnamese: chill dude we are still trying to figure it out
indian: cheapest metal coffin you can buy globally
I’m not so sure. Each brand tries to distinguish itself in some way. The one exception that comes to mind is chevy and maybe toyota (both which making exonoboxes, sports cars, and off-roaders). Obviously there are base trims and top trims in each brand, but since there are only a handful of manufacturers left, they tend to give each brand its own identity.
You can't be serious
The Jeep Compass has neither power nor comfort
The Mini Countryman isn't very luxurious
The Maserati Ghibli isn't the "best car possible for your income bracket."
The Nissan Rogue isn't very reliable
The Genesis G90 is giving you about 110% of the experience for about 85% of the price
Again, you can't be serious
IMO:
* **US:** Disposable fun--lots of power, looks great on the surface, cheap materials and shoddy workmanship underneath. don't expect it to last.
* **German:** Overly complex and riding on brand and reputation.
* **UK:** 90% design, 10% engineering, 0% real-world testing.
* **Italian:** "You're driving it wrong."
* **Japanese:** If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Ultra conservative.
* **Chinese:** You know when kids learn a new word and they can't stop using it? yeah that's them right now.
* **Korean:** Desperately trying to catch up the to the Germans and be in the conversation.
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