> Despite the shared components, Honda engineers said they have applied model-specific tuning to both the suspension and brakes. This is to ensure that the Prelude stays true to its role as **a grand tourer, prioritizing comfort and balanced dynamics over track-day aggression.**
This seems to confirm that Honda isn’t aiming this towards sport cars enthusiasts but rather for people who want a comfortable daily driver type of coupe.
To this day I still do not understand why people think the Prelude was some canyon carver back in the day. It's always been a FWD cruiser that can handle when it needs to.
I had a new 1983 5-speed manual Prelude in Japan with a single front windshield wiper blade. I think it was the first Honda with anti-locking brakes (ALB).
Sure but back then you had multiple coupe options (civic, accord, integra, del sol) so it was important to have them be different from each other. Today, this is the only coupe for Honda. In today’s market, coupe should be sports car driven. People don’t want a coupe that drives casually, why buy that vs a more usable suv? I see the car selling well IF it’s priced right. A lot of people just want a cool cheap car but if this thing is 35k+ rip because why buy this vs a 86, miata, R, GR, N, etc.
Ehh, *maybe*. But even with better looks, there's a world of difference between the two cars. The Civic, even back then, was the best compact car available. It was a fantastic car. The Mirage is a mediocre at best offering in a world where not many people want that type/size of car to begin with.
Yes and everything else was significantly cheaper and more affordable. Also wages kept up with cost of living and people generally had decent benefits. If you are only looking at only car prices and not EVERYTHING else when bringing inflation, you are looking at things wrong. It’s no secret why coupes are pretty much gone, people could afford a fun car on top of a daily vehicle. Now people can really choose one car to do it all.
That's misleading. Outside of basic price elasticity/supply and demand, auto makers generally arent anchoring car prices to everything else people can afford. If cost of living was suddenly cut in half, should you be expected to pay more for the exact same vehicle because you can now afford more things? Also keep in mind modern cars are far nicer and safer than they were in the 90s, so even if you're paying the same relative dollar amount for a new gen Prelude, you're getting something much better. It's not like housing where you're buying the literal exact same house built 30 years ago that now costs more than double after adjusting for inflation
This is really just the coupe version of the civic hybrid. I think the prelude was like a sported up coupe version of an accord. This is a sported up coupe version of a civic. the civic is a lot bigger now so it makes sense.
My mom is maybe going to buy one of these. she wants a small hybrid.
Also people here all complain that no one needs a crossover, and that all cars look the same today. Here we are with a stylish, economy car that has a little bit of sporting untertones and people are doing nothing but bitching about it.
The civic hybrid is imo one of the best cars for sale today. So getting a better looking, sporty coupe is just a win.
This sub genuinely doesn't have a concept of anything and constantly contradicts themselves.
"Who would buy this over X/Y/Z when you can actually track those cars?"
And then look at actual discussions on track worthiness of X/Y/Z and more often than not they'll get trashed for every little short coming
'Why not just get a Civic Hybrid?'
I want 2+2 because I don't use my back seats often, and I want a smaller vehicle for things like easier parking.
'Why not get the Ecoboost Mustang or 86/BRZ?'
They're under 30 MPG, and recommend or require premium gasoline. A hybrid would be a plus because this is going to be my only daily car.
'It's going to fail like the CR-Z, it doesn't even have a manual option.'
I wasn't in the market for a manual, and when I look at the CR-Z, it's styled like an economy hybrid, and the Prelude looks more sporty with its long hood, not to mention the CR-Z couldn't meet the crash spec in the US and therefore didn't have rear seats.
'But you're getting less utility and spending more than a Civic Hybrid.'
I wasn't using the utility anyways, and I'm willing to spend more for looks and preferred form factor.
To be fair, the entire AC system on the CRZ would fail everytime you came to a stop, because it would turn off with the engine’s auto-off function. It was one of the main reasons I sold mine and replaced it with a BRZ
On top of being a 2 seater, CRZ didnt have enough hp to be remotely sporty, and didnt get enough fuel economy to be more practical than a Civic coupe. Cool car, but honda missed the mark on that one
I once looked at getting a used CRZ when I was less broke (student things), and I liked the looks, the concept as a whole of "2 seater hybrid that's both fun and relatively practical" but yeah, the performance figures looked quite underwhelming. Would still smoke my 1.3 Honda Jazz in a straight line of course.
Idk if it was possible without exploding the price, but I reckon it'd have done much better with an extra 30-50 horsepower. However much would be needed to get it to the same level as the 86/BRZ/MX-5.
I feel a big part of it was it came out in a time where people, at least in the US, werent ready for the idea of anything sporty being hybrids. Gen 2 nsx was a good example because I remember pretty clearly a lot of people scoffing at it because it was a hybrid. The association of hybrid = prius was too real. But really, if americans werent so obsessed with power figures, I think it could have been fine. it's a solid choice for college students
>Well yes, because the car is sub 200 HP.
200 hp, 232 lb-ft torque. https://hondanews.com/en-US/honda-automobiles/releases/release-70527d767f112a34ec2e42bfb5036d06-new-2025-honda-civic-gains-powerful-hybrid-trims-sportier-styling-and-improved-tech
Now you can argue the way that serial hybrid works it's really 181hp most of the time (or... always), but that's more in the technical weeds. It does 6s 0-60, which is plenty good for most people at this (Civic ish) price range.
Would a Prelude be fun with more power? Of course. But this sub doesn't seem to buy anything other than manual V6 or V8s that come factory used and sell for 25k anyway.
Shouldn't this sub just be happy that anyone is still bothering making anything that is not a huge ugly SUV? This is an entry level sporty coupe that will probably sell really well. This will be funner than any any SUV to drive, won't break the bank, will give you 50+ mpg, and probably be cheap to maintain and run.
Other than the engine compartment and some hardware odds and ends, the Prelude has never shared parts with any Accord. The Prelude chassis has always been unique to the Prelude.
Hybrid commuter is a major money saver on a stop and go commute. Make it small and sporty and the commute can be a little fun. It even has power similar to a civic si.
>why buy this vs a 86
Fuel economy and premium fuel requirement. A GR86 gets 20/26 MPG or 21/30 MPG with the automatic and requires premium fuel.
I think you’re easily looking over 50 MPG for this car and it won’t need premium fuel.
i really wouldn't say that the car is low powered. The engine is naturally aspirated, it revs to 7400 RPM, and the car weighs under 3000 lbs. It's not fast but I don't find it slow either. It runs about the same time and speed as the STI in the quarter mile.
It's the turbos in many cars these days that really help with fuel efficiency. Stop and go really kills the fuel economy in the twins. I think a base 718 Cayman that has 300hp gets about the same mpgs as the twins
doesn’t even need to be turbo, the V6 Camry got 21/31 MPG on *regular* gas with close to 50% more horsepower, similar acceleration times despite weighing significantly more
I’m not saying that they should have packaged the 2GR in the BRZ, I’m just talking about vibes here, it’s hard for me to see something interesting/redeemable in the FA24 vs other engines in similarly priced cars of the same era
NA 4 cylinders generally dont make a lot of power. You have an s2k f20/22 putting out 240hp and gets similar mpgs at the fa24. There may be a mercedes NA 4 cyl from the 80s or 90s making similar power. Boxer engines are inherently somewhat fuel efficient, but 228hp is pretty good for the configuration.
Cries in 90% city driving.
20 MPG and needing premium is a pain. Thankfully I work remote so I only get gas once a month. If I had to commute daily I would have something else.
Even still, the thought of getting 50 MPG, on regular with having a stylish car is very appealing.
I'd have to test drive and see how it compares to my GR86.
Exactly! Who cares what the car "used" to be. The market has overwhelmingly said "we have no interest in a coupe for daily driving". Hell, sedans are a becoming more and more rare (in the US). The HRV, CRV, and it's competition have won that battle, handily.
A 181 HP, automatic coupe that is probably going to sell for $40k is DOA. They can tack every bit of the Type R's suspension to it. Won't matter with this powertrain.
> Sure but back then you had multiple coupe options (civic, accord, integra, del sol) so it was important to have them be different from each other.
...
>A lot of people just want a cool cheap car but if this thing is 35k+ rip because why buy this vs a 86, miata, R, GR, N, etc.
It's right there in your first line: because there should be cheap coupes. And contemporary Honda market research found that most Integra buyers weren't cross shopping Celicas or 200SX, they were cross shopping Hondas. Honda coupe buyers were cannibalizing from other Honda coupe buyers, which is why they simplified the model range.
Because the driving enthusiasts among Honda’s customer base already knew they wanted a Honda or Acura because they were the best. They didn’t want cut-rate Nissan, or a dull and listless Toyota.
Loaded Civics are already priced about $35K. This will appeal to buyers who want a cooler looking Civic and don't mind sacrificing some practicality... which is what economy car coupes have historically been aimed at doing.
Prelude pricing will probably mirror the Civic hybrid trims or close enough. Depends on how many trims the Prelude comes in, if there is only one loaded trim similar to a Civic Touring then it will easily cost $35K or higher. A less optioned Sport trim could cost $31 - $32K.
Well, sir, people are, in fact, morons.
In the Accord channel recently someone was saying the latest-gen Accord can handle along the likes of a C6 Z06 Corvette.
I own the latest Accord and, thankfully, I’ve had the chance to drive a lot of cars. While it’s some of Honda’s finest work, it sure as shit is not a high-performance vehicle. Not even close.
Agree
I had a 2001 celica for 9 years and really into the mod scene at the time.
Now there is talk that it's coming back and everyone thinks it's going to be a FWD turbo supra
No. It was an entry level sporty car that looked fast but wasn't
Im still holding that the Scion TC was the next gen Celica that got shoved under the Scion brand when they wanted to go after the "youngin's" and that during the board meeting to name the car some idiot in the back said why dont we just call it Scion Toyota Celica(TC) and the other idiots in the room said "YES!".
Yup, it targets the same demographic as the automatic Toyota 86s.
It's for the people who wants a stylish coupe that's hassle-free and livable as a daily commuter.
I agree with you.
Prelude, Integra, etc. have morphed into an enthusiast icon and not what Honda had previously envisioned them to be 20 years ago. People demand performance from coupes now. Like you said, that's why regular Civic and Accord coupes were axed.
Exactly. It was a great car, but it wasn't a sports car.
Really this is just the Integra part 2. People only remember the GS-R and the Type R, but forget all the economy boxes that were actually sold.
Honda rarely sells actual sports cars. In modern years, they only sold the NSX and S2000. Even the CTR and GSR were trims for regular commuter cars. Honda's enthusiast vehicles are usually focused on being excellent daily drivers. Even with the NSX and S2000, the big draw is that those are enthusiast cars you can drive every day without issue.
Aside from the AP1 S2K being like the worst daily driver in history lol. Damn reliable though, mine's about to hit 200k and compression is still 220-240psi per cylinder
you can drive the NC1 NSX every day without issue until you get to 75k miles and the maintenance schedule recommends a valve adjustment that requires the engine to come out and costs $20k
I don’t know if the valve adjustment is actually needed, but the NC1 NSX is so much more complex than the NA1 and I think that draws away a bit from the enthusiast appeal
They lost the plot a little with the NC1 IMO. But that's why I think the Prelude makes more sense the NC1 NSX or the i8. It's using parts from existing models to try to make something interesting. I see it as being closer to the NA1 NSX is design philosophy.
I mean I think the i8 just suffered on price to performance grounds. It needed to either be cheaper, or not be so much slower than other cars that were available for 150 thousand USD. 10/10 for looks though.
Our 200k mile Honda has never seen a valve adjustment, when I did the valve cover I wiggled them all and all were tight and I thought cool theyre fine, until I learned they tend to go too tight with time :D.
I remember test driving a beautiful green Integra manual when I was a teen, older guy owned it. I was like omg VTEC bro and on the test drive he said something like “well careful now you always want to shift around 3000 rpm”.
Rose-tinted glasses that's why. It's the same thing for many other cars as well. The M5 was never designed to be a super light track monster for example.
The F40 was a bad example. It wasn't a hypercar. It was a supercar. The Enzo or LaFerrari can be considered the first Ferrari hypercars.
The F40 has a v8 because it is an evolution of the 288 GTO. The 288 has a v8 because it was a racecar evolution of the 308. Enzo did not want to badge any car that did not have a v12 as a road going Ferrari. Kind of strange given the straight 3 prototype, straight 4s, straight 6s, v6's and v8's they designed in the 50's.
Anyways that is why the 308 and 206/246 were originally given the Dino branding. It wasn't until dealers started slapping Ferrari badges on the slow selling models that Enzo relented. Enzo didn't think the public could handle a mid engine v12 car. That is why the 206 got a v6 and the 2+2 308GT4 got a v8. This was despite the Miura going straight for a mid engine v12. Ferrari was perfectly capable of it, Enzo just said no. Lamborghini on the other hand gave his engineers a free hand in designing the Mirua.
Given the 80s/90s timeframe for the F40 the Countach/Diablo, Eb110, and F1 were all contemporary supercars. All were v12s. The XJ220 was the odd man out and lost a large number of preorders when they went from a v12 to a race car v6.
Looking at the successors the the F40 the F50, Enzo, and LaFerrari were v12s. The 288's predecessor the **250 GT Berlinetta SWB** was a v12. It is only now with the F80 that Ferrari is ditching the v12.
This is all to say that the only reason the 288 GTO and F40 are not v12's is because Enzo did not think the 1960's public could handle a mid engined one.
The funny thing about the XJ220 to me is that it got bad press for the move to the V6 despite it being more powerful. I'd also have thought the reputation of the Jag V12 specifically would also have helped. Sure, different sound and character, but I don't think I've heard the existing XJ220 ever be described as boring.
It's a shame though, it has almost everything needed to be an amazing sports car for the road. Just enough power, low weight (compared to alternatives in the same price range), high torque and no turbo lag.
I think they're trying to reconcile the car with the current market. The fwd coupe is dead. Every modern coupe is a performance car so people expect it to compete with the 86, supra, mustang, or whatever is in its price segment just because it has 2 doors, not because of what the prelude was in the past.
I think there is a reason there are no more fwd coupes. I think it is odd that Honda is trying to pursue it, especially after the CR-Z and killing off the civic and accord coupes. I hope it ends up successful, even though I don't think it will be.
The context is different now. Early 90s Hondas were built way better than the average car of the day, and engine management generally sucked back then.
So yeah, your '94 Prelude "only" made 190hp, but at the same time a base Mustang made a pathetic 145hp. For $2k more than the V6 Mustang, the Prelude handled better, and was more comfortable and was put together better and to boot, was also faster 0-60. The new Prelude will disappointment nostalgists, of course because it doesn't have a manual ... but also because the competition isn't trash anymore.
Bit more nuanced than that. They took everything that was great about the 10th gen Si and put them behind the acura pay wall then made the 11th gen Si more expensive while it's actually less car than the 10th.
If you want a manual in the new integra or any honda really, you need to spec the shit out of it just to unlock the manual option. The 10th gen was not like that, you could get the 1.5t with a manual with the sport pack, when sport actually meant something.
I get it, they're a business and want to make money, but unless I continue buying used I cant see myself getting into a new honda, after having owned 7. Theyre paywalling all the fun, when us old heads remember when honda meant fun at every price point
[Car and Driver rated the 5th gen Prelude as the best handling car in a 1997 comparison test, beating out a E36 and NA Miata.](https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a15140782/the-best-handling-car-for-less-than-30000-archived-feature/)
>beating out a E36
Technically correct, but from the article l:
>The 318ti Sport has a trailing-arm rear suspension that is less sophisticated than the other 3-series cars
I know right. The 4ws ones were weird gremlins too that could do a lane change faster than you can blink. They had a unique identity, and had the short-long arm suspension all the way around. There were various engine models with different transmission types.
What is it that people are specifically defending about the car? Because if I was to criticize it, it would be the transmission and engine options and lack of a LSD.
I don't really care that its FWD or that it has hybrid options.
People made the same error when the Integra was re-invented. Lol they were wondering why it wasn't some track monster when it never was back in the day.
3rd gen SI with 4WS was a legit handling machine for its class. Wasn’t fast by any means by that thing could bend a corner. The engine was mounted on an aggressive lean as well so it gave you a go kart like experience while driving.
customer demands have changed a massive amount since the ol Prelude was a new car.
I am not sure how a coupe that is designed for comfort and "balanced dynamics" is going to sell in the SUV era.
You don't understand why people think the Prelude handled well because you're looking at a nearly 30 year old year car through a 2025 lense. C&D named it the best handling car under $30,000 in 1997. That's like calling it the best handling car under $60,000 today.
It was not just a fwd cruiser and more than held its own against the likes of the Miata at the track.
Probably has something to do with the 3rd-5th gen having 4-wheel steering and beating a ton of actual sports cars in different cornering and slalom speed tests.
Genuinely no hate but Honda’s have this weird phenomenon where they make cars that are good for what they are/the price, and somewhere down the line that gets bastardized into them being some of the greatest cars ever made.
It’s not only Honda’s where this happens but I feel like it happens with them more than any other brand.
Even though you are right, I also feel that most Hondas actually do get better with age, and were designed as such (by engineers who care deeply about cars).
I’ve had many modern daily drivers throughout the years (FoST, FiST, BRZ, Mustang etc) but one car I’ve *never* sold is my 8th gen civic si.
That car is really is like wine, the older it gets the more I fall in love with it. I can only imagine how an s2000 owner might feel.
While they shared the same platform, Acura put different engines in the Integra vs the civic. For example, you couldn't get the B18C from the Integra GSR in any trim Civic. The current Integra had the same anemic L15 from the Si.
Maybe not in the US markezt but the MB6 civic in europe did come with the B18 C4 in the VTi trim, as well as wagon form. And you could get a 6th cen civic with the B20 and awd out of the CR-V, in Asia and Russia. Different markets got different engines.
Because it's likely to preview/feature a new E-AWD system. At least those were initial rumors. Might still happen and honestly this car will put handle any older prelude is my guess.
New Civics base models handle well and with some PS4 tires it would keep up with the prelude
> why people think the Prelude was some canyon carver back in the day
Well it could be optioned with 4ws and the late great LJK Setright waxed poetic about it nonstop (when he wasn't praising Bristols of course)
People who buy it will buy it for the looks, DESPITE it being comfort focused, not because it's comfortable. Honda is repeating the same mistake they made with Cr-Z.
I don’t think they’re repeating the mistake with the CR-Z at all.
The CR-Z, for starters, was a much smaller vehicle (161 inches long, 68.5 inches wide). And in the U.S., it had no back seat which meant it was just a 2 seater. It was also very slow, taking almost 10 seconds to get to 60. And finally, perhaps most importantly, it wasn’t even a good hybrid. It was rated for 31 city and 37 highway.
So for everyone saying this is just another CR-Z, I think you need to go back and read up on what the CR-Z actually was. The only similarity that they might share is being fun to drive (which we don’t know yet if the Prelude is).
Try sitting in the backseat of the Prelude. I doubt there is any headroom for adults.
Nowadays average consumers complain about 6 sec 0-60 just as much as they complained about 10 sec back then. Cars got much quicker.
I doubt people will complain about a 6 second 0-60 when that’s quicker than your average vehicle. 10 seconds back then was slower than your average vehicle.
That’s why I bought my Mustang. I wanted a comfortable GT car. Plenty of power and capability, but with a suspension setup for daily driving comfort. It’s the most comfortable car I’ve owned since my last Mustang. My Model 3 Performance and my GTI especially were both significantly less comfortable than my Mustang GTs.
What suspension setup are you running on it? I’m looking for something comfy to spend long stretches on the highway, and a GT with a comfy ride sounds nice.
This gave it away for me
>“Honda S+ Shift.” The system blends engine sound effects, tailored torque delivery, and paddle shifters to simulate traditional gear changes. A dedicated button on the center console activates this mode, giving drivers a more interactive experience behind the wheel.
I agree. It’s pretty spot on for the person that commutes to work and does the occasional canyon run on the weekend.
This is car for a potential Civic Si owner that is bit faster than the Si but gets better gas mileage, has all of the low speed ADAS features that you can’t have with a manual and the handling bits from the Type-R.
So in other words, people who *used to be* "sport car enthusiasts," albeit poor ones, when they were younger, but are now older, probably with families and with more money.
They did the same thing in last-gen Accord 2.0T.
It uses the Type R engine, with smaller cam shafts and a slightly smaller turbo.
You can hondata it from the factory to 320HP/350 Torque with no reliability issues.
I think you’re comparing the engine in the Accord being the same as the Type R to this having the same suspension setup which are two different things.
I am just pointing out Honda is known for taking parts/setups from their performance vehicles and putting them into lower trims/models without advertising it. Often making small tweaks so the average consumer would never even know.
I still don't really see a market for this car. They're trying to aim for a niche within a niche market. I don't see these selling well once the niche consumers buy theirs.
My crazy theory is that the 12th gen civic si is going to have the prelude drivetrain and an lsd. Honda seems to be moving away from the L15 and manuals. They also seem to think their simulated dct is plenty sporty.
i can see this, but part of me hopes the manual stays. basically honda has been willing to slash everything that we though made an si, an si. the only staying factor is the manual as of today.
Me too, to me the si and the manual are one. I bet they’ll finally throw in extra power for the next gen si to differentiate it from the regular civic hybrid.
but the hyrbrid doesn't get the suspension/brake upgrades that the Si gets. so if highway power is your only concern then the hybrid is the way to go. Si is more about the twisties. And if people buy the hybris over the Si, then i don't think Honda cars ... main point to them, they're in a civic. but the Si really should get 230 for the next gen to be competitive. Si sales are floating on the legacy o the Si, it's not a good value anymore.
I may be wrong about this, but in every scenario except highway cruising at a steady speed, the Prelude is powered by the electric motors and the gas engine is just in generator battery charging modes.
This means there is no real need for a LSD, and all the simulated shifting and sounds are just being done on the electric side, like the new Hyundai N EVs.
I haven't driven a car like that, but I think if I'm driving an electric powered car, I'd just embrace that aspect, like how Tesla does.
You're absolutely right on the first point, but a limited slip differential is separate from the transmission and would still be useful for an EV. Tesla and many others get away with open diffs thanks to software controlled brakes, which is technically fine but really isn't the same as a real LSD.
Honda did announce their next gen hybrid system would have e-AWD available but they haven't announced on what vehicles would offer it.
My guess is that perhaps the 2027 Integra and/or ADX would offer it.
New cars that *are manuals* have the exact same thing. In any case, it will be possible to disable it, hopefully by a method as simple as changing drive mode settings in the menu. If I'm not mistaken, the Civic hybrid has some kind of customizable drive mode in which you can disable the added engine noise while keeping any other "sporty" settings that you like.
Evidently, Honda's true marketing failure is allowing everyone to think this car has a CVT. It's been years since they've stopped using traditional transmissions in their mainstream hybrids
It's based on the current gen civic only offers CVTs and manuals. Saying the car will use paddle shifters and "simulated gear changes" can only mean one thing...CVT.
You're super out of the loop dude, I recommend reading up on Honda's current e:HEV system because it's an interesting powertrain. You're also misreading what I wrote.
> They clearly state the Prelude is based on the current gen Civic which only offers CVTs and manuals. Saying the car will use paddle shifters and "simulated gear changes" can only mean one thing...CVT.
Do you know what transmission the Civic _HYBRID_ has? None.
The Honda e:HEV powertrain doesn't employ a traditional transmission like the old IMA used in the 2010s Insight and CR-Z. It has no transmission at all - it's essentially an EV with a range extender gas motor, with a single drive clutch for the engine to assist with reaching certain speeds. It's also very different from other hybrids like the Toyotas, which use a planetary gearbox rather than a CVT.
Thus, the Prelude will NOT have a CVT. Neither does the Civic HYBRID, Accord, CR-V, or any of their other e:HEV powered vehicles. The hybrid powertrain's reliability, refinement and performance is not limited by an economy-focused transmission like a CVT.
It's just that Honda insists on calling it an "e-CVT" because every other hybrid does that. A lot of people don't realise that there's a significant difference.
> As for your comment about Honda not using traditional transmissions for years, the 2025 Acura TLX still uses the 10 speed torque converter automatic so they are still around.
What I wrote, again: "It's been years since they've stopped using traditional transmissions *in their mainstream hybrids*"
Is the TLX a hybrid? The NSX is not a mainstream hybrid. The RLX Sport Hybrid was the last regular hybrid model that used a transmission (7-speed DCT), which was discontinued worldwide back in 2020. The RLX only lasted another year in Japan under the Honda Legend name
I literally just Googled Honda ecvt to confirm. The 2025 Civic Hybrid uses a CVT with electric motors assisting with torque to the wheels.
Key Features and Functionality:
Continuously Variable:
Like a traditional CVT, the eCVT varies gear ratios continuously, rather than having fixed gears like a conventional automatic transmission.
> The 2025 Civic Hybrid uses a CVT with electric motors assisting with torque to the wheels.
Firstly, your google search is straight misinformation. Did this come from an AI summary?
It's powered primarily by the electric motors, not the engine. Go watch the [Savagegeese review on the Honda Civic Hybrid](https://youtu.be/e5t74-BBz5w?t=290)
From Honda themselves: https://global.honda/en/tech/two_motor_hybrid_system_honda_eHEV/images/tabA01_b.png
> Key Features and Functionality: Continuously Variable: Like a traditional CVT, the eCVT varies gear ratios continuously, rather than having fixed gears like a conventional automatic transmission.
You realise that it only functions like one right? It's not an actual CVT and doesn't come with any of the downsides that enthusiasts hate?
Only functions like one? That means it IS one and DOES comes with the flaws associated with it.
I'm not sure why you are trying to so hard to defend CVT but the fact is that the eCVT is a CVT and the technology is fundamentally flawed when it comes to performance applications. CVTs have belts that slip under excessive torque which limits the performance capabilities of any engine mated to it. The electric motors will compensate for the CVT's lack of torque but that just makes the car more of an EV which comes with it's own set challenges (weight, range, recharge times etc).
What Honda is really doing now-a-days is taking a lacklustre drivetrain (1.5L turbo engines with CVTs) and trying to make them appealing to enthusiasts by using nostalgic nameplates like Integra and Prelude. The fundamental fact is that the 1.5L turbo engines are not performance engines (known for blowing head gaskets if you turn up the boost past stock levels) and CVTs are fundamentally flawed in performance applications.
I will stop replying now as we are probably never going to find a resolution to this debate. Buy the Prelude if you want, it's your money, but it won't drive anything like a Civic Type R which uses an actual performance engine (Honda K series) and manual transmission.
But the whole point of all that good design for the CTR was to be able to handle a significant amount of power in a FWD platform. When this is going to make 200hp, who cares?
They may or may not be able to squeeze a bit more power out of that, but being much lighter than a Civic and having all that electric torque would make this pretty zoomy. Civic hybrids already do 6s 0-60, this will be faster.
I think they'll probably get a little more power out of it, but its not going to be much, so maybe 200 hp and like 230 torque. But considering how based on the Civic it is, I dont think it will be much lighter than the Civic Hybrid, if at all, especially considering its upmarket of the Civic and will likely get more sound deadening.
The normal Civic hybrid already has 200hp and 232 lb-ft torque, and the hybrid in the Accord and CR-V give 247lb-ft torque. That's a healthy amount of power for most people. I think they should at least put the higher torque version in this Prelude, but regardless being a few hundred lbs lighter should already put this in the 5.5s 0-60 range. Obviously not going to satisfy people in this sub that riots for anything that's not a manual V8, but as a sporty coupe that's relatively affordable it should get some decent sales.
Heck, they might surprise us down the line with some manual hybrid thing who knows. Toyota will probably be the first to put that in a production car though.
I REALLY dont think its going to be significantly lighter than the Civic. Looks like the same wheelbase or very close, so not significantly less body, and its probably going to be expected to be more rigid and have more sound deadening to feel more upscale. I will be VERY surprised if it comes in under 3100 lbs, and I'm expecting more like 3200.
This [article](https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/honda/prelude-prototype/first-drive) from last week says it will have the same power as the civic, which is hugely disappointing. I wasn't expecting much of a power bump of course, but if it has identical power it's going to make this car an even tougher sell.
The CTR suspension isn’t that special and is just closer to the old dual wishbones that most Hondas had once upon a time. It takes ridiculous clown shoes to compensate for the FWD setup and achieve the lap times.
A softer setup is fine for the Prelude but no manual will kill the market - this Predule is just a Civic hybrid coupe with a different name.
Yup double wish is for better camber control. This knuckle is for torque steer which I’m guessing Honda threw on to manage the torque steer from the electric motors
But the prelude also comes with Brembo brakes and offset wheels to clear the brakes. Just a guess but that screws scrub radius and they needed that knuckle to fix it to avoid torque steer
Even having brembos on this car was stupid. This doesn't have the kind of power to justify them, just seems like Honda trying to find ways to pump the price instead of keeping the Prelude affordable.
I mean 99% of cars out there won’t even use their big brakes. Single pistons are enough to abs stop a car a couple times. But everyone loves the big brake bing behind wheels
You are spewing way too much and I bet you havent driven any of them. My SI which has some of the fk8r parts is pretty special. This one will be a few tiers above and if its tuned for comfort will be even more magical
It's not even that. It still has the camber curve of strut suspension, it just doesn't have any torque steer. That's great to have for a car that is 95% of the time an EV with a generator.
Nah you're tripping lol. As someone who's had a 6th gen Camaro and CT5-V for some time, those FK8 and FK5 certainly have a special suspension setup that can only be bettered (maybe) by an Elantra N.
The dual wishbone might not be special, but the dual axis system and LSD is what basically eliminated understeer. It's the only reason (a long with good tires) it's able to keep up/beat a Camaro V6 1LE around VIR and keep up with older M cars, F cars, etc.
You have no idea what you are talking about lol. Yes other honda cars might use it some of the same parts, but they handle like crap in comparison with the biggest drawback being understeer galore
Sort of. The dual axis suspension design is definitely special, but as you said, only in the context of FWD performance cars. It is a pretty significant evolution compared to old Hondas.
Another user with more upvotes said that the ND Miata only exists thanks to the co-development with FCA, who got the Fiat 124 Spyder in return. I recall some Mazda execs saying this but this is the best I can find
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda\_MX-5\_(ND)#Cooperation\_with\_Fiat\_Chrysler](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_MX-5_(ND)#Cooperation_with_Fiat_Chrysler)
According to that user, Mazda even ran out of development money, which led to the ND1's 2.0L motor the less ideal motor until they could to upgrade for it the ND2.
Honda would need a partner to make a ground-up RWD S2000. Or take the Supra/Z4 route
I really want to take this platform and drop a custom 6-6 into it. It has the exact exterior dimensions, wheelbase, and weight that I'm interested in; it just needs more soul (more than 4-cyl, mid-high revving N/A), power, and control via a manual transmission and a different engine.
I did not. I actually traded a FK8 for my CV2, so a longer final drive and 6th was a huge selling point for the Accord vs the Type R.
I get in my S2000 when I want to go fast on a track. I get in My Other Car when I need to drive somewhere at 75 MPH for 2.5 hours, and it was fucking stupid to have that Other Car be an FK8.
That comparison doesn't make sense. The article already describes exactly what parts the Prelude borrows from the Type R, which the base 150hp Civic doesn't have.
There are all these cool new cars that come from manufacturers these days but they’re all either hybrids, EVs or don’t come in manual.
You mention that on Reddit and you get downvoted for not wanting some appliance that’s forced down your neck.
I won't downvote (that's reserved for people actively de-railing conversations, not opinions I do not share) but I do think it's a little silly to complain about the lack of manuals in 2025, when pretty much everything is stacked against them. I love the experience you get from older ICE cars with them, and some modern ones thrive on being stick like Miatas and FRSBRZ86es. I sure wish the C8 was stick like the C7 I had.
But a lot of modern ICE cars just... don't do great in manual form, both because the transmission is sometimes an afterthought and because the sort of experience they deliver just doesn't work as well stick as older cars did. You get the usual software heavy modern ICE car experience with rev hang and similar quirks and it all just hits different compared to driving an old NA/NB Miata or whatever.
In general, I don't feel like being stick, naturally aspirated, having a V8 or any other particular thing will give a modern car the "enthusiast" experience specific-kind-of-car-enthusiasts are looking for, especially ones that grew up with simpler cars. I'm not complaining, seeing as I have a full size truck that's quicker than most of the other vehicles I've owned while also not burning stuff for power at all. I think if you want the pure ICE experience you really just need to get a used car at this point (with some exceptions), that's just how it be - modern EV/hybrid/auto-only cars just do so many other things better.
>I love the experience you get from older ICE cars with them, and some modern ones thrive on being stick like Miatas and FRSBRZ86es. I sure wish the C8 was stick like the C7 I had.
My hot-take is that once a car gets over 350 hp or so, a manual doesn't really feel right anymore. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point in development GM made a manual C8 and it got savaged by the pdk-clone. Not just in performance, but it's ability to be used as a daily by the people who buy a Corvette.
Hmm, the C7 manual felt great with 400+ HP. Well, OK, you can tell it's notchy from the larger parts needed to handle the torque (like any T56-alike), and there was that time I was next to an auto grand sport on track that kept slowly walking away each straight... Still, with the broad torque curve, tall gears and auto rev match the thing was a hoot to drive.
But yeah. I imagine having some stick ICE car with a peaky torque curve, 5 underdrive ratios and a 4s- 0-60. So you need to do a bunch of shifts unlike the C7 and really abuse the thing to go fast, and now the auto version of that theoretical car is just working so much better it's hard to ignore.
I think the C8 being stick was killed by pure sales numbers, there was just no business reason to develop a manual transaxle for it. And yeah daily driving for Corvette buyers requires auto most of the time I'm sure, hence those sales numbers. You can seriously just pile on reasons new cars don't come manual.
People down vote and complain about the "but it doesn't have a manual" crowd because they love to talk the talk but rarely put their money where their mouth is (or if they do, they are already happy with their Miata and not in the market for a new car).
"I'd buy it if it had a manual" is usually missing the fine print of "in 5 years used after it's heavily depreciated" which guess what? Provides zero incentive for manufacturers to actually put manuals in cars.
Something like 2/3rds of BRZ's/GR86's are sold in manual, the type of people who are going out of their way to buy compact coupes as opposed to a more easy-to-drive and practical sedan or crossover do not want a more easy-to-drive and practical transmission. Honda themselves don't even build the Type-R in automatic so there has to be substantial contingent of manual Honda fans that they've now completely neglected.
BRZ and 86 is compromised on fuel effiency and space compared to this Prelude. It's also RWD intended for driving purists, which isn't the same target demographic as this Prelude. Type R already has brand identity and Honda has always been good about keeping those identities pure (Civic Si has stayed manual only all these years). You'd also have to be an enthusiast to begin with to be willing to pay $45k for what is essentially an amped up Civic. This doesn't mean that if Honda added an automatic option to the Type R, they wouldnt get new buyers. After all, a big reason anyone goes for hot hatches over dedicated RWD coupes/roadsters is because they want the space
Ultimately I think this Prelude will also be low volume, but I hope it at least recaptures that market of buyers who aren't necessarily sports cars enthusiasts but are sick of large crossovers and SUVs
The ECVTs that at least Toyota is using will outlast basically every transmission type other than the one speeds EVs are using that aren’t really transmissions. There is massive appeal for cost of ownership and smoothness. It would be nice to have the option though.
Yup, if they can do a type R and under 50k I'd consider it as an upgrade from my GR86.
Right now it's just a lateral movement and not worth the hassle of buying a new car.
Other than that the only "reasonable" upgrades are the Supra and Z.
Seems like a wasted opportunity not to. Why make a sporty looking coupe and not match the Civic Type R engine with the hybrid prelude power train? would sell decently imo.
meanwhile at honda, the bitting criticisms of /u/Gd3spoon have sent the company into chaos. people are jumping out of windows. men are biting dogs. how will they ever recover?
Panic in the streets. Blood in the halls. It’s chaos. 🤣
Though I do wish it had a manual option - a grand touring coupe a la manuel? Sure it wouldn’t sell but it’d be slick as hell.
I don't know how you add a manual into a hybrid without negating pretty much all the advantages a hybrid gives you. Maybe the average arr cars redditeur need a fake clutch shift knob ie *baby sensory toy* that they can fidget with while making vroom vroom noises in their brown diesel manuelle station wagon
The CR-Z was also constantly criticised for delivering underwhelming fuel economy car and enthusiastic driving. A lot of people questioned why would anyone pick it over a more practical Fit that's efficient enough.
I'm sure someone could do a manual hybrid right if they put money into it, but the CR-Z wasn't quite it.
The first gen Insight, CRZ, and early Civic Hybrids all had manual options
But as long as we’re dreaming, I would say ditch the hybrid idea altogether. This car should have been 1.5T or 2.0T.
idk if you've driven one of the modern Honda hybrids but they're *really* nice. practically zero acceleration lag, sips gasoline, and surprisingly powerful when you put your foot down.
My Accord 6/6 coupe fit that description exactly minus being a fuel sipper. It was the best daily driver I ever owned. I'd buy a modern day spiritual successor in a heartbeat if it had a manual.
Idk how a lot of things that do exist and work actually work, but that doesn’t preclude them from working or existing. It worked before in previous cars, but the majority of US drivers, and maybe international now as well, don’t want the manual transmission.
The fact that you’re deriding something that other people like, while also admitting you don’t know how it works tells me you’re not a naturally curious person or one that really cares what other people think or are interested in if it doesn’t align with your narrow view, so why bother replying at all? There’s enough negativity without trying to add “humorous” snark. People can like things, and innovation should be the goal, not poo-pooing something because you personally don’t get it.
There's a long standing joke that if Reddit had their way, every car would be a brown station wagon with a stick shift and diesel engine that came used from the factory, and *nobody* would buy it, not even the people who asked for it. There's a reason why those traits have gone away in cars, especially stick shifts - it's been a long time since automatic transmissions have become more fuel efficient and smoother than manuals.
Then again, don't listen to me, Honda should *totally* get rid of their reliable, efficient, durable eCVT hybrid transmissions and spend millions of dollars developing an unproven hybrid manual transmission to satisfy the desires of 14 people on arr Cars, 9 of which aren't old enough to drive.
I wish this thing had an automatic, I don't mean the weird shit it has now but a bog standard automatic transmission. A manual probably wasn't even in the cards but I could see an 8 speed or something there.
Those are much better drivers cars both with more hp and a manual available. The miata is considered an excellent drivers car as well even with less hp. The prelude will be heavier, auto only, and won't drive nearly as well.
It’s destined for failure if it’s priced at 40k. It’s the “sensible” alternative to the Miata and 86, but that sensibility goes out the window if it costs 10k more at the base model.
But wheres the market for this? Anyone that wants a coupe usually buys it for performance. The only other coupes like this are expensive luxury brands.
I’ve said this before but I think the target audience are Prius buyers that recognize they don’t need 4 doors. I’m someone who would be in the market for a fuel efficient, comfortable vehicle, that doesn’t have the need for 4 doors since I drive myself 95% of the time. If you can also make it more engaging to drive than a Prius then that’s an added plus.
It’s a small market but coupes and sports cars in general have a small market. The GR Corolla and Type R both sell less than 5k units per year. The most successful coupe in this price range right now is the GR86 at 12k units. I don’t know what Honda’s expectations are but the bar isn’t that high here.
I mean, again, if this was a true sports coupe with even a Civic Si powertrain in it with a manual offering, you’d be looking at most selling 10k units per year. This is just based off of it being in the same category as a GR86. It much more likely would’ve sold at around 5k to 6k units per year though judging by the other sports cars in the segment, plus it likely having a higher price tag than the GR86.
I would say if Honda sells 5k of these then they’re doing good. They sell around 3500 Civic Type Rs and 7000 Civic Si’s in a year. So if you were targeting 5000 units you are doing good.
Hopefully. Imo it would have been smarter of them to offer both a normal ICE version with a stick and a hybrid. You can then attempt to cater to both markets who want a affordable coupe.
I can see why they are doing it this way because they want to showcase their hybrid tech as having the best of both worlds: it can be fun to drive and efficient. I think we have to wait and see actual reviews first before we judge whether it was the right call or not.
I'm the same, I have no real need for anything more as a daily than a small hybrid, especially with us already having a crossover for family stuff. Pricing is going to make or break this though.
My guess is Honda is banking on customers willing to pay a significant premium for the fashion elements and form factor--there's no way this will get the economy of scale the Civic has. This is my current next vehicle, and I'm consciously and actively willing to pay more to remove the rear doors.
I think the benchmark is going to be an automatic 86/BRZ--if it's close to or under that price, prospective customers are going to be drawn to the better fuel economy, creature comforts and cheaper consumables.
Nothing wrong with wanting a more affordable, fuel efficient, "luxury" style coupe? Not everyone looking for a stylish yet comfortable daily driver coupe are high rollers.
Nah man. If you want a vette you buy a vette. It's dumb argument that everything needs to be as powerful as a vette.
There used to be a comparable market for this with audi tt, porsche boxster (the first gen), scirocco, c30, brera etc.
Hopeful for this car to get good mileage, decent handling, quiet interior/nvh, comfortable ride, and costs similar to the Civic hybrid touring.
If it’s remotely close to 40k, it better be dead silent inside.
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