What are some ugly truths about university in the UK?

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Any-Zebra7239@reddit

like which. When I hear people say this I wonder which degrees they mean specifically. I am a math and comp sci major.

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FinneyontheWing@reddit

If you're not having a good time, it feels terrible then and the regret/resentment of going can stay with you for an awfully long time.

However, and this is perhaps still an ugly truth, if you have the craic for 3+ years and come out with any sort of degree at all, it's the most fun you're going to have in your lifetime, and your only regret will be that you didn't try a bit harder at the studying part.

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Soft_Awareness_5061@reddit

Second the trying harder part

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Pitiful_Carrot5349@reddit

Disagree with this bit

"your only regret will be that you didn't try a bit harder at the studying part"

University is a fantastic social opportunity that you won't get again. I did a bit of rowing, it's possible to do that post-uni but it's so hard trying to get exactly 9 people together for an activity. It's like trying to organise a stag do every week. At uni it's easy. Same for plays or music. Biggest impact of all, meeting your spouse. You can meet and chat to a hundred like-minded people the same age as you without even trying. The year after you leave it becomes much harder.

Miss out on those things and you get serious regret. Drop from a first to a 2:1 and it doesn't really affect your life at all.

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FinneyontheWing@reddit

Very well put and very much agree - I think I went from general truths to my own personal regret in a single sentence! Think I just regret not trying harder academically in general - you're right, I don't think anyone's asked what grade I actually came out with... Not a first....

Excellent analogy with organising things, not least sport. It took a few years but eventually we had a Saturday-league football team set up that was comprised of players from a period of about six years and the four university squads, but it only came to fruition because of a monumental effort from one lad in particular - kudos to Rogers!

Even when people are dead keen, getting a dozen lads with increasing real-life commitments to Hackney Marshes or Peckham Rye every weekend was still like herding cats!

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ICantBelieveItsNotEC@reddit

Yeah, most people don't realise what they have at university until they leave. I graduated six years ago and my core group of friends is still just a bunch of people that I met at university. I ended up marrying the woman that I thought was beautiful in freshers week. I pretty much got my first job because I impressed a recruiter at a society related to my course.

The cold, hard truth is that if you're struggling socially at university, you REALLY need to put some serious effort into improving your social skills and confidence, because university is the easiest ride you'll ever have. Once you graduate, meeting new people is pretty much impossible - you have to be lucky enough to end up working with people that you actually get along with, and then you need to run the gauntlet of turning professional relationships into friendships. It's much harder than university, where you can walk into the JCR with a bottle of vodka right now and make a dozen new friends.

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Slight_Toe_5056@reddit

I think "impossible" is a bit of stretch tbh mate, no offense.

I wouldn't say I was the most outgoing student, I did make some friends (some of which I'm still friends with today) - but the vast majority of people I've become friends with I would say I found after finishing university: be it through travelling, work, living in house share, hobbies etc.

I think there are more opportunities to make friends because everyone is in the same boat, but realistically if you're willing to put in the effort and actively look for it there are opportunities to make friends at any age.

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Interesting_Law4332@reddit

Why is it “put effort in” and not “quit and regroup”?

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FinneyontheWing@reddit

Well put.

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itsapotatosalad@reddit

I was the latter and had a seriously low mood for a good while afterwards. I still miss it from time to time and I’m pushing 40. I know a few people who were really social like me who went through depression after uni. It feels very lonely when you get home, and very quiet. It’s hard to adjust back after 3 or 4 years. A lot of people just can’t go back to life in their home town, immediately or ever.

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FinneyontheWing@reddit

Most definitely, yes.

Towards the end of our time there, my mates would jokingly say that I'd not be able to cope adjusting to a life with proper consequences for being a daft twat. Indeed, they said I'd essentially be Will Ferrell's character in Old School when he thinks they're going to get banned.

They weren't entirely wrong, but I'm 23 months dry now and I've still not been found 'face down in a drained pool somewhere...'

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DataSnaek@reddit

It’s really crazy how many social opportunities you have in uni that you’ll never have again. I regret not taking more advantage of it. Though covid did really fuck that up for me too

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FinneyontheWing@reddit

I cannot begin to imagine how shite that must have been.

It's prompted another positive, for my own experience anyway - going in 2002 meant there were hardly any camera phones to capture daft things you did, let alone ways of having them shared with all and sundry.

Must be a tightrope over a minefield being mischievous these days!

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Typical_Excusee@reddit

For example

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FinneyontheWing@reddit

I was at university between 2002-05, as were 26,000 other people. This can obviously be daunting for some people, but as a sociable person wholly out of their academic comfort zone but otherwise excited by new things, there was literally no excuse to not find someone or group or someones who shared your interests.

There were clubs and societies for anything and everything. Personally, I played for the university football team. As well as the 80-odd lads in the four squads that you'd see three times a week training and playing, it meant that you could meet hundreds of people from the other sports teams and different backgrounds.

I'm 42 now, the only people I call friends in the city I've had to move to five years ago are the people I was with for four months in rehab. Another club!

TL;DR Making new mates when you're old is hard fucking work. There's nowhere remotely as accessible to find people you really want to knock about with, and with a little effort, be friends no matter how far away you end up.

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Typical_Excusee@reddit

I know it all, I am not young adult. Just was wondering what opportunities he is talking about. You still can have clubs etc you just need to be rich to be able to support such lifestyle and socialising with a lot of people

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Top_Barnacle9669@reddit

So. My sons experience. Started uni at 18 and realised very quickly that he had picked the wrong course and he dropped out. Took time out to reconsider his options and he is starting again in a 8 weeks time. This course comes with a year study abroad on the other side of the world. Now Im not daft, I know there will be associated costs with it, but for where he is going, there is NO way he would get the opportunity again. Life happens and it would become a pipe dream. The opportunities opening this door will offer him career wise too cannot be ignored

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Typical_Excusee@reddit

Well you can get opportunity to be on the other side of the world by applying for a job or moving to that country or travelling. Tbh it is not exclusive to uni. People just have very narrow mindset and are too lazy to push themselves for bigger changes

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Top_Barnacle9669@reddit

True. You can't deny the benefit of the second degree he will get during that year (it's a dual degree course) and as there is lots of field work involved,the contacts he will gain from working with people in the industry will make it a lot easier.

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Typical_Excusee@reddit

You can get it without uni that is my point. You will meat a lot of people during work(if it includes) travelling. And no 1 year abroad is not second degree🤣 it is just year abroad. I am not against uni but what you all describing is not exclusive to uni experience.

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infieldcookie@reddit

I did a study abroad placement about a decade ago and it will be well worth it for him!

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FinneyontheWing@reddit

Well, quite!

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infieldcookie@reddit

Yeah there’s nothing quite like living 15-20 mins walk from all your friends, especially when you’re all living on campus. Plus you just have a lot more free time for hanging out when you’re not working full time.

I’m not sporty at all and I still joined sports clubs (even became a committee member) and I saw the same people 4-5 days a week usually and loads of people from different backgrounds.

Nothing quite like it as an adult really as even when you join a club people are often away/busy so you don’t even always see the same people.

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bigdaftgeordie@reddit

As someone who went to university in my 40s, the entry requirements for ‘adult’ learning are “Do you have the money?” The degree I took had many students who shouldn’t have been there. The quality of the teaching for at least 2/3 of it was appalling too.

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razza357@reddit

You went to Birkbeck didn't you?

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Intelligent_Lab_234@reddit

Most people are too young to know what’s actually going to be useful to them when they’re at the age of picking their degree

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SirLostit@reddit

It doesn’t help that universities pump out worthless degrees to unsuspecting students who then end up as Baristas in Costa trying to pay off student loans.

I’m not saying that they are all worthless, but some are just crap.

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Routine_Ad1823@reddit

I overheard some young adults on the train talking about how their degrees had been basically useless. One was saying she now worked in a shop and one was saying she is a ticket inspector.

I SO wanted to know what degrees they did.

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SirLostit@reddit

My eldest son has friends who went to Uni and came back with degrees that have lead them to the Barista life…. I think they were photography, criminology, some sort of media studies and psychology. He also has another friend who did engineering and is now working for Rolls Royce.

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trainpk85@reddit

I did criminology and literally it got me nowhere in life. I then did 2 more degrees in engineering and a masters in engineering and was earning 6 figures. My daughter is now a teenager and wants to study criminology. She wants to work in the prison/probation service but unsure exactly what she wants to do and I’m trying to show her they offer FREE apprenticeships!! I remember criminology was all the rage along with sociology and psychology when I left school and I wish my mother had told me no.

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jaimecameronroberts@reddit

Criminology is a very valuable degree. If you have genuine interest in the field of the criminal justice system, criminal behaviour, law, history and politics. If that’s not for you don’t bother. It’s either for you or not.

A lot of people on my degree walked in and stated they wanted to work ‘as a detective’ and they were an empty chair by the end of the first semester.

I think you’re referring to the PQiP qualification? It’s a very good course (one that I’m looking into) but it is HIGHLY competitive. A good class of a degree stands you in good stead but EXPERIENCE is a must!

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Routine_Ad1823@reddit

It must be hard as a parent because "follow your dreams" is all well and good, but I'm sure very few people's dream is to be working in Starbucks because their qualifications (or talent) aren't good enough.

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SirLostit@reddit

Yes, I’ve got 2 adult kids that had to make their decision a few years ago. The eldest decided to become an officer in the Forces and the younger is doing medicine at uni, I’m very proud of them and both are doing very well in their choices. I don’t know how I would have felt if they had picked a ‘follow your dreams’ type degree, but I know I would have supported them regardless.

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Distinct-Goal-7382@reddit

You're a great parent

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FoxGranite@reddit

A lot of my mates went to uni and a few of them have become more successful from their post-uni 'just for now jobs' than their actual degree, e.g. one is 31 and got a retail assistant job straight after and he just stayed their and climbed the ranks, I don't know his salary but he lives in a 5 bed home in a nice part of town now.

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Al89nut@reddit

BA Retail Management and BA Data Security

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moubliepas@reddit

This rhetoric has been around for a long time. Around 2015 the reactionaries started laughing at idiots doing soft subjects like 'media studies' and English at university.

A couple of years later said media studies and English students were saying things like 'I'm seeing an awful lot of inflammatory rhetoric on social media being uncritically accepted as true' and large parts of the population had been primed to ignore them.

10 years later and people in all industries are starting to worry that younger folk don't have the media literacy or critical analysis of sources that it takes to safely navigate the internet. Everybody has anxiety and people are getting very angry at other sections of society because of things they've seen online. Social media has been around for a long time, but an awful lot of social problems seemed to get big a few years after everyone moved online and certain figures started criticising anybody who wasted public resources learning to create and analyse things just for the sake of it.

Functioning societies need a broad knowledge base. A country full of scientists and engineers need art students to point out the subtle manipulations in the adverts and leaflets they're all reading: lawyers and historians need drama teachers and creative writing professionals to provide decent entertainment so society isn't dominated by reality TV and the upper classes.

We live in an ecosystem: nothing is useless.

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spyder52@reddit

Are student loan system is fair enough that a barista in Costa won't pay a penny towards their student loan.

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TheNorthC@reddit

But their loan will accrue interest, making it harder to pay off once they actually do start earning above the relatively low repayment threshold.

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Amaryllis_LD@reddit

But then it gets written off anyway. It's essentially just a graduate tax. You don't pay more for having accrued more interest or anything like that after all.

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TheNorthC@reddit

No, you pay 10% of your salary until you are 60 under the current rules. So for a typical graduate, that will mean paying tax at a marginal rate of 50% for their entire career, even if they don't pay off the principal.

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Amaryllis_LD@reddit

But it doesn't matter whether you have 20k debt or 200k debt you still pay the same amount month to month.

I have a student loan (2 in fact) under 2 different plans it's still functionally a graduate tax in the way it's repaid regardless of the fact it's called a loan.

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TheNorthC@reddit

If you have a £20k loan, the chances are you pay it off and then no longer have the graduate tax. If you have £200k, you'll probably never pay off your loan and pay the tax until 60.

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Amaryllis_LD@reddit

It still functions like a tax. With literally any other loan the more you owe the more you repay month to month. Student loans don't function like that.

Would it be fairer to just call it a bloody tax and make every graduate pay it? Yes absolutely. Does that change the way it would actually function? Barely.

Very few people are paying these loans off especially wuen it went to 9k fees. I am 15 years post graduation on 3k fees at this point and the first of my loans that gets written off after 25 years I still technically owe about 30k on. Trust me short of a lottery win and a head injury meaning I chose to pay it off rather than going for a high interest savings account (cos there is no way I'm paying off anything other than the absolute minimum) there is no way I'm going to be on a high enough salary to be able to pay it off.

I was an NUS officer at the time fees went from 3k to 9k and I was saying even then that it's functionally just a graduate tax unless you are well off enough to pay fees up front which would be a frankly stupid thing to do and only a tiny number of people would do.

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TheNorthC@reddit

You're right in that for many, it will function as a de facto graduate tax. I've run various excel models of repayment rates, and for some graduates, they will repay the loan many times over and still never repay it.l, even if they end their careers earning the equivalent today of £100,000. For careers like teaching, I don't see how you can.

The key problem is the early years compound interest once you get to the wage level where you accrue the full interest amount, but don't earn enough to pay off the interest. And if you have loans above £50,000, it is quite hard.

From my modelling, the tipping point was about £30,000 (although I did this about four years ago). This is the point that debt gets repaid vs it being a permanent tax. The total amount paid to the SLC over the course of a career between the two numbers I gave above is staggering.

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spyder52@reddit

The barista is paying nothing, and it's 9% above the threshold to which the barista is not getting much above.

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TheNorthC@reddit

A graduate working as a barista is only likely to be on those levels for a few years before moving on to a job that pays average or above average earnings, at which point they will pay the full 9% for the rest of their careers.

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TheNorthC@reddit

I think there may be a typo in your post, but to clarify, what is 9% above which threshold?

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Background-Device-36@reddit

17th Century Cartography is very useful of you ever end up getting sent back in time.

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BuncleCar@reddit

Not long ago two baristas in one coffee shop were comparing qualifications, not their degrees, but their MAs

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Drewski811@reddit

There's nothing wrong with studying something because you like the field. Expecting every degree to guarantee you a high paying job is where we go wrong.

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rusty6899@reddit

If it’s a field you want to work in but doesn’t pay especially well then sure, it could well be worth it if you’re going to use it to have a fulfilling career.

If you’re saddling yourself with £40k+ of debt and missing out on 3 years of potential employment to study a degree that provides absolutely no increase in employability then you might be smart to reconsider.

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Elgin_McQueen@reddit

One of my first university classes involved us all sitting in a lecture hall, while the different lecturers listed through their careers to demonstrate how we might go on to jobs that have nothing to do with our qualifications, and that we still had plenty time in the future to decide to do different things.

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Intelligent_Lab_234@reddit

Yes exactly, I think it would have been nice to actually further acknowledge that by having the opportunity to study a wider range of subjects to have a chance to explore those interests

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jaimecameronroberts@reddit

I returned to education at 30 and the most prominent thing I noticed was the generational gap. Most of the younger generation spend a LOT of their time entirely absorbed in their phones during lectures (many occurrences of groups of students taking snaps of themselves and friends - lecturer having to halt teaching as they’d disrupted etc.) they contribute nothing towards discussion, and it’s a fucking nightmare if your randomly selected for a group presentation.

I sound like a bitter millennial but this is my experience. I was extremely lucky to find my little tribe of mature students and we support one another.

Some pieces of advice I would give to individuals is; do your research properly about what degree you’re entering. What interests you about the course? I know people who have studied certain degrees and hated it but stuck with it and regret it.What kind of career will it get you? Does it match up to your expectations as to what income you hope to achieve?

Most of all get as much EXPERIENCE as you can in your chosen field. Really put yourself out there! Take advantage of job fairs etc…

It’s all well and good having a degree on paper but most employers are looking for experience. It is invaluable.

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furrycroissant@reddit

You're not landing a graduate job after

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JRD656@reddit

Had to scroll a long way for the most important one. I know a few internationals who spent a lot getting a degree here thinking they'd be able to lay down roots. Absolutely no chance. Unless you are landing a job at a tech/finance place that are looking to spend £40k salary plus many £k sponsorship, then you're going to be bitterly disappointed

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saffa05@reddit

You're a customer and your retailer couldn't care less about you. Some of the cashiers are excellent, though.

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coffeewalnut08@reddit

It can be very lonely and alienating.

At least in was in my experience.

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AdAdministrative7804@reddit

Pretty much the same for me. I just didn't show up to anything for 2 months after christmas because it all started to feel a bit pointless and at Easter I got 1 email about attendance and zero follow up.

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Choice-Standard-6350@reddit

You are an adult paying to go there. It’s not their job to make you attend

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Interesting_Law4332@reddit

Always with that. “You’re an adult”. 18 year olds turned 18 yesterday and magically they are adults when they barely got taught being adults?

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Choice-Standard-6350@reddit

Honestly if you are not mature enough to go to university at 18, it’s best to wait a year or two.

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Interesting_Law4332@reddit

I mean schools pressure everyone to go just so that they get their government funding and then blame teens “it is your fault, you are adults”. Meanwhile where was the practice in being an adult and being taken seriously? I just despise how much teens are blamed for every fucking thing. Like are adults just blameless greedy fucking robots or something?

Again, unless you grew up with monetary, and social wealth, you’re fucked either way. Got depression? Sucks to be you because now everyone thinks you’re being lazy and entitled. Want to get help? Good luck as you have to wait on this decade long list. Oh but you’re and adult now and everything is your fault

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Choice-Standard-6350@reddit

Sorry, but I managed most things by myself from 16. Left home at 18 and did manage myself. Just asked friends when I needed help.

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Interesting_Law4332@reddit

Yeah but you had the environment and friends. Again, proving it’s the environment. Not just magically being mature. I get what you mean but it can even be extended to “what does it mean to be a man/woman?”

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Choice-Standard-6350@reddit

I had to make friends or I would have had no one

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AdAdministrative7804@reddit

No but they might want to check i was not dead.

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Wasps_are_bastards@reddit

My first uni was like that. I quit and went to another and it was the polar opposite. I stayed in touch with one lecturer for 18 years until he passed away.

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Krakshotz@reddit

I like being in my own bubble most of the time. But uni for me did feel a bit isolating, especially if you don’t speak to your neighbours in halls

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coffeewalnut08@reddit

I also enjoy my alone time but I found it very hard to find “my people”, and didn’t know where to start.

I wasn’t drinking, partying or dating anyone so I didn’t fit in with the girls in my hall, but that initial experience of alienation set the tone and I didn’t quite know where to go next.

It took a long time for me to find friends, and even then it wasn’t a big circle + everyone went their own way after uni anyway.

I wish uni communities could feel more genuinely empathetic and tight and close-knit. But I guess that’s an unrealistic expectation.

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Darkgreenbirdofprey@reddit

It's not going to increase your chances of having a successful career

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academicQZ@reddit

Uni Prof here. Some very worthy points on the reply, some utter rubbish as well.

The ‘uni lecturers don’t care about you’ theme - That’s a sweeping statement and, in my experience, an exception rather than the rule. We do care. A lot!

If you want an ugly truth. It’s sickening how the very ‘best’ universities (The Russell Group) are constantly paraded as THE ones you must go to. But….they’re research universities. They generally don’t care about your education.

And yes … Tony Blair’s ‘education, education, education’ massively over expanded HE to the point that the value of a more general degree plummeted. Cue people battling for entry into the Russell Group. And the vicious cycle continues.

Unis will change the way they teach over the next 10 years to align to labour market. Mark my words.

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Rod_Hulls_fake_arm@reddit

Prof at a Russell group. The idea that Russell group Universities dont care about students education is utter rubbish. Look at Universities balance sheets and income from fees vs full economic costed grants and it's clear that not caring about students would be disastrous. At my institute we care about huge amount about education (I have a specific role in this area). Also many Russell groups but effort into research focus teaching exposing students to cutting edge research that is currently ongoing.

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InevitableFox81194@reddit

My gods.. Are you really a professor at a Russell group? With that spelling, punctuation, and grammar?.

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ReaderTen@reddit

Professors can be teaching maths, or biochemistry, or something else that doesn't involve the English language. Also, it would be quite common for English to be a professor's second language.

It would be even more common for a professor on reddit to be typing on their phone and not care. They owe easily readable material to their paying students, not to strangers on reddit.

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Rod_Hulls_fake_arm@reddit

Yep, on my phone on leave and not that bothered about it. Your grammar is hardly first rate bud.

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InevitableFox81194@reddit

No, it's not. You're correct. English, however, isn't even my 3rd language, I also don't claim to be a professor at a Russell Group University.

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Rod_Hulls_fake_arm@reddit

BTW I'm prof of Applied Statistics and dyslexic but i check my papers more than i do reddit posts. But well done anyway

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Interesting_Law4332@reddit

All I ever got was “we aren’t here to spoon feed you, figure it out”. Can’t say that made me enthused about uni. It’s like paying money only to have the paper in the end

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Jungletron@reddit

Found the tory.

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Routine_Ad1823@reddit

We literally had a lecturer say to us in the first lecture, "Students are my lowest priority" then go on to say how research was more important to him.

I even wrote to my student newspaper about it, as I was so annoyed.

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Jayatthemoment@reddit

Some lecturers are hired specifically to teach, some because of their research profile. Some are good at both.

I train university teachers and work with them when they ask (they almost never do) or when there are enough complaints or their courses are not landing well. Many are mean and resentful and feel trapped into doing something they don’t want to do but don’t have the personal awareness (or ability) to walk away.

Like it or not, many of the professionals that have the most impact on you, and I don’t just mean teachers and university staff, are also tired, lonely, anxious, uninspired, broke, have few career prospects, etc. Stuff that hurts you at 23 crushes you at 43.

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academicQZ@reddit

Universities have always been spaces where knowledge is created (research) and shared (teaching). If you can't walk into a lecture hall and share that knowledge in an engaging way, you shouldn't be there. If someone reaches out to people like you who do amazing work to help when needed, we, the academy, should always look to help, support and back them! If they are resistant to this, it's probably time for a (forced) new career path ... imo.

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Choice-Standard-6350@reddit

In an engaging way? They are not entertainers

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Consistent-Salary-35@reddit

Think about how most people learn and perform best - by being actively engaged in their subject. This goes for lecturers as well as students. There are facts and vignettes I remember exactly because they were conveyed in an accessible and yes, entertaining, way. I’m not an entertainer, but I am passionate about what I teach and hope some of that rubs off.

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Choice-Standard-6350@reddit

Not everything can be taught that way

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merryman1@reddit

How reasonable is that though? If you're already being expected to work well over 38 hours to keep up with a given research project, how do you then manage what is also another full time job's worth of hours on teaching and engaging with students who 75% of don't seem to actually want to be there.

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merryman1@reddit

A lot of the problem is that research has become a very difficult career-path and pretty much the only way to get yourself a permanent employment contract is to become a lecturer. So you have a lot of people who don't actually really want to teach put in a position where they have to teach if they want to actually stay doing their job.

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academicQZ@reddit

Well done for writing a piece in your newsletter! My fellow profs on here would almost certainly agree that your staff member should find …. or be found …. a new career.

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Admirable-Library814@reddit

Russell Group prof here. We do care about students. A LOT. So much effort and so much expertise is put into designing and delivering courses and (in my case at least) worrying about students’ experience and their learning. It is hard however when you’re looking after classes of 300-500 students to have the kind of personal interaction that you would like. I love supervising dissertations precisely because I get to have proper discussions with undergraduates.

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merryman1@reddit

To give folks an idea - One of my friends has gone back to teaching and now teaches the same course we did at the same uni we went to ourselves. We had a class of \~50 students. That same module now runs at over 100 students with zero thought given to how the available space can fit all these people in (it can't) or how the staff are supposed to cope with the increased workload (they can't).

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Admirable-Library814@reddit

Oh absolutely. The rise in numbers and the pressure… it’s a tough job.

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BluePandaYellowPanda@reddit

Russell group are not even the best ones, and not many people except the egotistical people who go/teach there think that. Yes, some of them are the best, but the group as a whole are not all the best at all. Plenty of universities are better than Russell group universities.

Can't really say the whole group are the best because the top of the group are the best lmao.

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TheNorthC@reddit

Obviously everyone wants to go to a Russell Group these days, or perhaps a place like Bath. But if you don't get a 2.1 at the end, it's a waste. Although it sounds like it's pretty difficult to get a Desmond these days.

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Accomplished-Kale-77@reddit

Lads - if you’re unsuccessful at pulling women wherever you’re from, it’s going to be absolutely no different living away at Uni

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Interesting-Win-3220@reddit

I think people are funnelled down the university route too soon and pushed into it by UK schools just so they can boast about outcomes.

The real wakeup call for me was leaving university. The world of work really doesn't give a damn about your degree or education. Everyone has a degree now.

Skills and what you can actually bring to your workplace are far more important than any academic qualification.

My first few years at work, I realised that there's so much that university doesn't teach you. Massive shock to the system.

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Slight_Toe_5056@reddit

It's not the golden ticket that was (maybe still is?) promised.

Can't speak for the current situation as it's 7 years since I graduated but back when I was in school and college the mantra was "go to university, having a degree will open doors for you."

I'm sure in certain professions this is true, but if you go in like I did and just studied something that you enjoy but doesn't necessarily have a distinct career path (I studied music), then you can come out feeling a little bit like you've been promised something only to end up graduating and finding yourself in a job where your degree isn't needed.

That being said I would still say it's a worthwhile experience, I have friends that I met at university that I'm still friends with to this day and the experience of being able to move to a new city and fend for myself I think allowed me to grow in maturity at a faster rate than if I'd got a job and stuck around my hometown.

This could also be slightly class dependent but growing up in relatively deprived area of a working class city the experience for has allowed me opportunities that I otherwise likely would have struggled to find. I feel that the confidence I gained from moving to another city gave me the confidence to then move abroad.

Now after nearly a decade having a degree is allowing me the chance to move abroad again and teach English, without a degree I would have been restricted to lower paying roles/countries.

I guess my advice to anyone who's graduated but doesn't fully know what they're doing is, give it time. Nobody can take the degree away from you and you never know when it might come in handy!

TLDR - It's not a "golden ticket" but there are many benefits to going to uni, many of which may not become obvious until years after graduating.

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QuietGoliath@reddit

Same as universities else where I suspect. Loneliness, bullying, alcohol abuse, substance abuse, sexual assaults, huge debts, instances of clear and blatant favouritism, questionable (and varyingly applied) ethics/morality standards.

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Interesting_Law4332@reddit

Exactly but we are told we have an attitude problem and that everyone enjoyed uni and had a fuckfest and met their band of merry men

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QuietGoliath@reddit

I dare say some did. Mine spiralled into a dark fucking pit, with a menu of depression, betrayal, immense debt, a death, 2 suicide attempts (one was someone else's) and divorce.

Total shitshow.

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Interesting_Law4332@reddit

Idk I remember having to deal with a lot and just being thrown to the wolves. I thought uni was my way out but no, I wasn’t Mr popular from school and was poor

The people that day they had a great time, usually come from prestige backgrounds no doubt

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QuietGoliath@reddit

Yeah, living off mummy and daddy's credit card, bills and car paid for. Bastards.

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worthless100@reddit

If found you don’t actually get taught anything just told to look it up all yourself so not sure what the 10k a year is actually for lol

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Interesting_Law4332@reddit

Again agreed and not sure why you get downvoted

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CauseCertain1672@reddit

it's a really shit experience, it's 3 years of isolation and hard work in return for the opportunity to better your circumstances

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Interesting_Law4332@reddit

Agreed

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odkfn@reddit

I’d say that’s subjective, though. Not a hard truth. I worked hard and juggled a part time job, but I made great friends and had a great time.

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ICantBelieveItsNotEC@reddit

The valuable part of university isn't the degree, it's the friends that you make along the way.

The government could just send young people on a three-year-long taxpayer-funded bender with people from all walks of life, and people would get 90% of the benefit from it.

That's not palatable to the public, so we have to put on this song and dance about studying.

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ExoticSpend8606@reddit

Utter bollocks. Where did you go to uni where people “from all walks of life” socialised together? It definitely wasn’t where I went to uni, which was a cesspit of classism and racism.

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Interesting_Law4332@reddit

Yep tribalism. It’s the same argument ppl use for state schools. Nope, people will still be tribal but now you just increase the heat of the melting pot

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Excellent_Spare_5439@reddit

Ugly truths? People get drunk, borderline sexually assaulted, gaslit by their 'friends' (hall mates), and it changes them for the worse

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Interesting_Law4332@reddit

Exactly this and nothing is done about it

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godziIIasweirdfriend@reddit

That fun-loving person who's friends with everyone and who you see at every party is probably an alcoholic, you just don't notice it because the drinking culture makes it seem normal.

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Interesting_Law4332@reddit

So true. It’s just highschool again. I regret going so much

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GerFubDhuw@reddit

Half the time you'd be better off self-studying and showing up to exams to get the paperwork that says you're a smarty pants.

It's shit if you're poor.

They're entirely for profit.

Teaching is an obligation of the university lecturers not something they care about.

Most courses are useless.

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Interesting_Law4332@reddit

Exactly. It’s shit if you are poor. Idk what it is about British culture where somehow being poor isn’t factored into it being shit for the person. No help, no guidance, and no mentor. Again unless you’re rich and learned everything from youth

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Routine_Ad1823@reddit

I don't know if it's shit if you're poor. I got no parental support and I got by pretty well with loans, grants and part time work.
Obviously I was a bit jealous about flatmates who had their rent and fees paid, and whose folks sent them a big shop every week... but I never felt like it held me back.

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GerFubDhuw@reddit

I worked 5 days a week. After rent and uni fees I had £7 for groceries. Yes it sucked.

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Routine_Ad1823@reddit

Did you not have a student loan?

Was it just a few hours a day working?

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GerFubDhuw@reddit

Yes I did have a student loan.

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smokyjefferson@reddit

Most courses are shit, badly organised, don't prepare you for the workplace and leave you out in the cold once you've left. There are useless career centres and accreditations and awards so they can pretend this is not the case but unless you've had a head start you really have to do all the heavy lifting yourself and then more to make a success of it.

STEM MSc student here.

On the flip side, once you've got the qualification on a silly bit of paper it holds symbolic weight for prospective employers.

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Unfair-Ad-9479@reddit

“They leave you out in the cold once you’ve left” is a HUGE aspect and I wish more people said about it. I was still relatively lucky immediately after university with a forward-seeming career progression but this year it’s become clear that that was entirely a case of “having a job in my intended path very soon and it being a great opportunity”. But knowing how to then develop further from there is incredibly hard, especially if you have to then side-step on the career or you don’t have a solid support network of people older than you and otherwise intertwined in the field outside of your university city to really start it all progressing forward exponentially.

Also: job centres almost always will see that you have a degree and a good education and say something to the effect of “you’ll have absolutely no problem finding work…”. If that were the case, I would not currently be at the job centre.

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Interesting_Law4332@reddit

But didn’t you know? Socialising and networking and finding your wife at freshers where everyone is peer pressured to drink? /s

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papayametallica@reddit

Rings a lot of bells. Thank you

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Choice-Standard-6350@reddit

Dont prepare you for the workplace? What are you looking for

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smokyjefferson@reddit

Teach you industry standard practices and methods. More effective teaching methods. Courses where you are well supported and have good practical examples to show at the end of it.

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Choice-Standard-6350@reddit

What course did you do? Asking because industry standard practices is an unusual ask. Degrees do not provide a lot of support. You are supposed to be an independent learner.

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smokyjefferson@reddit

That is not true. It is an expectation of employers that you are using industry practices, and with STEM subjects it's the employment prospects most people are doing it for. My course taught the basics in second year, intermediate stuff in first year that was no longer being used in industry. By the time I arrived in the workplace there were lots of things that didn't make sense. You are to work independently but the course needs to be structured in a way that guides you in the right direction.

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Choice-Standard-6350@reddit

STEM degree courses are the most structured degrees you can do. Industry standard practices differ depending on what STEM field you enter.

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Routine_Ad1823@reddit

That's why placements and internships are so valuable

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Interesting_Law4332@reddit

Unless you’re rich, desirable and come from an elite school, you’re fucked. You have to have had it easy in school. Uni is school again. Ugly truth is your voice doesn’t matter and any criticisms is treated like an attitude problem

The peer pressure, the drugs, alcoholism, etc

Then not being taken seriously because of age

The ugly truth is, uni works for those that have advantages. Socialising aspect? Idk again people are tribal

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pcor@reddit

The idea, once commonplace across the political spectrum, of education as something valuable in its own right has largely fallen out of favour over the past 30 years, to the point where discussing it in non-economic terms (i.ei as anything other than a means to boost your value as human capital and thus your personal earning potential) will make you sound out of touch or incoherent to most people, especially younger ones.

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AttitudeSimilar9347@reddit

It was always the case, just that when only 10-15% of people went there were sufficient well-paying graduate-level jobs no-one cared, because the cost of the entire small university system was easily covered by most graduates becoming higher-rate taxpayers. Now 50% go, most don’t get graduate jobs, yet the massively expanded university sector has to be paid for somehow.

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pcor@reddit

That’s just plainly untrue in a way that would be obvious to anyone with even a passing familiarity of education policy discussion pre-Thatcher!

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Choice-Standard-6350@reddit

Anti intellectualism is part of British culture.

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walterfalls@reddit

Professors can be clueless. Avoid trying to learning entrepreneurship from a professor. Entrepreneurs have no patience for academia.

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AndThenDiscard@reddit

Who the fuck is trying to learn entrepreneurship from a professor?

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AttitudeSimilar9347@reddit

Every MBA student?

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WalnutOfTheNorth@reddit

Dunno why you’re getting voted down for that. I know very few professors able to run a business without it being subsidised with university equipment/offices,etc.

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Daydreamer-64@reddit

It’s a strange thing to say. Why would you try to learn about business from someone who has worked in the academic sector for (probably) their whole lives?

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Admirable-Library814@reddit

My business school colleagues in the offices on this corridor have professional backgrounds in engineering, the military, the NHS, the European Commission (in my case) and many other extraordinary careers. Don’t assume your professor never had another job.

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Jayatthemoment@reddit

Yes, that’s more the case in RG unis. Many unis have staff from industry. The issue with that is they rarely teach that well and don’t really understand assessment. You see a lot of feedback comments like ‘Interesting guy but gave me bad feedback on my assignment’.

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Admirable-Library814@reddit

How about being taught by people who have an interesting professional background in industry PLUS several degrees including a Masters in teaching practice and assessment? Because that’s what you get at my department. The effort put into assessment and feedback is enormous.

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Jayatthemoment@reddit

Because they’re not commonplace and don’t always want to live on lecturer salaries. My uni exists around this idea and we also spend a lot on supporting and training them.

The absolute MOST they’re going to have is some sort of PGCHE—people with subject PhD, MA in education, experience in industry are unusual and not a very diverse group. They tend to be older and have external money.

We have a few unicorns, but most are industry experts who teach a bit on the side or morphed into teaching because they didn’t like their industry job, or teachers who used to be nurses or journalists or HR professionals and are losing their industry contacts and relevance year by year. They need a lot of unjudgemental support.

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Admirable-Library814@reddit

I don’t particularly like the lecturer’s salary mind you. But I love the work.

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Admirable-Library814@reddit

They’re pretty much the norm in my department. I have BA, MSc, MBA, PHD, PGCap and thinking about doing a D.Ed. Also twenty odd years in industry. No family money. Did all these degrees part time.

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Daydreamer-64@reddit

I know they can have had other jobs, but a lot are recruited straight from university, especially the more senior ones because of the linear progression of an academic career.

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WalnutOfTheNorth@reddit

I agree. University is great for learning specialised fields but for something as broad as entrepreneurship it makes more sense to learn on the job, so to speak.

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Daydreamer-64@reddit

Yeah it’s definitely a learn on the job kind of thing, but you can definitely get insight and knowledge about it if you can find the right people to ask (which is difficult). Entrepreneurs and people who have worked in small businesses are much more suited to giving advice than academics are.

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papayametallica@reddit

I suggest The problem lies with the dilemma posed by the question Can entrepreneurship be taught or is it something that someone already possesses.? If it’s the former Is a university the best place to learn? If it’s the latter millions of £ have been spent in pursuit of an idea that has little to no chance of success

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Admirable-Library814@reddit

My courses ask precisely this question.

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Admirable-Library814@reddit

Entrepreneurship professor here. My courses include guest lectures from entrepreneurs in all sorts of industries. I can absolutely tell you that entrepreneurs are VERY interested in academia (although often intimated).

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MrsTheBo@reddit

I founded and run a very successful business, and am also a visiting lecturer. I don’t disagree with your comment, though, because I know I am not the norm.

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Wonderful_Falcon_318@reddit

Professors/academics are usually those who have never experienced the issues with getting paid in the normal sense of the word (as in for everyone else) unfortunately.

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jonpenryn@reddit

They are under pressure not to fail anyone, if they fail you on the last bit you can take action saying they ought to have told you earlier and they will always cave to bad publicity.

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chartupdate@reddit

You may encounter and be required to interact with people whose views differ from your own..it is important to accept this as part of your first steps into the adult world.

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Present_Program6554@reddit

Studying is much easier than they tell you. I was terrified that I wouldn't be able to understand anything and it was all so easy.

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random_character-@reddit

I think this may be very course and person dependent. I clearly remember a fluid dynamics module which I, and most others, found quite challenging.

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Routine_Ad1823@reddit

Yeah, I remember the first mech eng lecture and I couldn't believe how easy it was - like Year 9 maths. Then it suddenly ramped right up!

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random_character-@reddit

Yeah.. from fulcrums and levers to ∂u/∂t + (u·∇)u = -∇p + ν∇²u in a year or so... Made me realise I really wasn't all that clever.

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Present_Program6554@reddit

I found everything got easier as new concepts fitted in with what I already learned even though I changed subjects between my diploma, my BA and my MSc.

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Tea_Fetishist@reddit

That felt like most modules I studied, first lecture would be banging rocks together, second lecture would be rocket science.

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RaspberryTurtle987@reddit

Debt that only gets more and more. Someone reminded me recently that university representatives came to 6th form and said this is all the information you need about going to uni, including finances and they basically brushed off the fact that you are making an investment of negative returns. The interest rates are exorbitant and your debt just keeps racking up and up. This is not to say I don’t think university is not worth investing in, I do, just that you shouldn’t have to pay for it.

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wordgirl@reddit

I would love to go to university in Scotland for a graduate degree, but as an American I admit I fear I might not measure up academically. I have not gone to school abroad before.

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Jumpy-Brilliant-3880@reddit

If you don't get in a Uni in teh top 20 or a Russel Group/Red Brick Uni, you better not be doing a BA. It's worthless. If you are a creative, start doing that now independently and fuck off Uni. I work in HE, for the last 20 years.

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MixGroundbreaking622@reddit

For most careers you're better off skipping university and getting real life work experience.

At a certain point you stop putting your degree on your CV.

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Tea_Fetishist@reddit

Some careers you can't start without a degree however

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MixGroundbreaking622@reddit

Why I said "for most careers".

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Tea_Fetishist@reddit

If you do a degree apprenticeship and live at home, you don't get the uni lifestyle. It's also tiring trying to maintain studying while working 4 days a week.

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audigex@reddit

Student houses are mostly badly maintained and rented out for about twice as much as a similar sized house

It’s a massive rip off industry

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coffeewalnut08@reddit

Facts… based on one of the student houses I lived in I actually wondered how it was legal to rent out such a shit property.

It was borderline hazardous, with sagging leaky ceilings and broken furniture in my case.

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RoyalConflict1@reddit

Our shower leaked through our kitchen light fitting...and instead of having it fixed, our landlord told us to just switch off the fuse for the downstairs lights and use lamps.

It was 14 years ago now, but I'm sure our entire household wishes we'd protested instead of going along with it

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ICantBelieveItsNotEC@reddit

The poor maintenance is a feature IMO. In my student days, we actively sought out shitholes, because it meant the landlord couldn't charge us for anything that we damaged. Getting shitfaced and spilling cranberry juice all over the sofa is much less of a big deal if the sofa is 40 years old.

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audigex@reddit

When it's a 20 year old carpet and curtain poles hanging off the wall, sure

Not so much when the roof is leaking and your clothes are rotting from damp

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YchYFi@reddit

I think they don't have to follow the same regulations, so thats why lots of high rises are student flats first.

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callcentreescapee@reddit

Believe me people - there are A LOT of university graduates like myself from Russell Group universities who end up in call centres. Yes ok, it's better than nothing, it is what you make of it etc... but just keep that in mind before you apply.

Writing essays and reading this journal article and that dusty book isn't going to save you when Mrs Sproat is arguing with you over her electricity bills or when 2 weeks of laughable "training" doesn't prepare you for what's to come.

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RareBrit@reddit

If you can't manage your own time then it's your problem.

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Due_Engineering_108@reddit

That the standard of teaching and education is not that good. Our elite universities are among the best in the world, the middle ranking ones are simply businesses where they guide students through the 3 year course to get the tuition fees out of them rather than setting them up for a future career.

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mjosh133@reddit

The interest on student loans is awful and doesn’t get spoken about enough. When I went to uni, it was all ‘you’ll never pay off your loans’ and advice from schools/online pages essentially saying don’t worry about the loans. I’m earning £50k three years since graduation, yet on my loans (plan 2 and post grad) i still accrue more interest than i pay off. I’ll be paying off my plan 2 loan for all of my career unless i get some miraculous progression, even though without the levels of interest I would be paying it off a lot sooner. And no, I couldn’t get my job without both degrees.

As someone who would like children too, it’s bordering on discriminatory how the interest will continue to accrue throughout any maternity leave I take, or parental leave.

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skibbin@reddit

People go for the lifestyle as much as the education. It's expensive and possibly a waste of time. In the 3/4 years you spend accumulating debt, you could have been earning and climbing the ladder somewhere.

I went and don't regret it at all, but it was cheaper back then and my degree was relevant to my career.

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ICantBelieveItsNotEC@reddit

The lifestyle can help your career just as much as the degree, though. Many careers are gatekept by culture and social class.

Someone from a working-class background with a thick regional accent would struggle to get a job in consultancy, finance, law, or tech straight out of school because their face wouldn't fit. University gives them three years to live among middle-class people, learn a little about professional culture, and ditch the accent.

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Choice-Standard-6350@reddit

So pretend to be middle class? Everything that is wrong about uk in one short paragraph

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Routine_Ad1823@reddit

I'm not sure it's waste of time. I did get a good degree out of it, but even if I hadn't I think the experience was still worth it. It was SO MUCH fun and I had amazing experiences. But I think I was very lucky with my social life there.

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corpse-wires@reddit

most universities at the moment are so broke, the courses simply arent worth it.

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AnyAd3156@reddit

You won't appreciate how poor the standards are until you start meeting foreign exchange students and seeing how much more knowledgeable, articulate and cultured they are. And often in multiple languages.

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Ok-Advantage-5875@reddit

It's expensive and many degrees are worthless.

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AndThenDiscard@reddit

University isn't an employment factory

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Wonderful_Falcon_318@reddit

What is the point then?

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AndThenDiscard@reddit

To give people from lower income backgrounds an equity in education, and to create an educated populace. Those are very clear goals which funding support ex

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Background-Pear-9063@reddit

It shouldn't be, but also many employers who require degrees shouldn't.

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AndThenDiscard@reddit

Very true.

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Ok-Advantage-5875@reddit

No, it's a machine for crating suckers.

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peterhala@reddit

Well there's the students, for a start.

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Rude_Rhubarb1880@reddit

UK universities are businesses. They sell education for fees. So they are corporate and uncaring

But the staff don’t receive much money so they resent everyone.

UK Students are ridiculously immature, yet highly opinionated

Courses are badly organized

Lecturers display massive amounts of favoritism and there is zero you can do about it

Complaints against university staff are not taken seriously by universities

staff are almost impossible to sack and they know it

Many staff are twisted and bitter about being paid low wages to teach average students (with articulate high grades) the same shit year after year

Many “unis” are actually old polytechnics. They were all re-badged as universities under Tony Blair. That means that they have literally no history of actually providing any serious academic courses but the charge the same as those true universities that do.

Many of the halls of residence are in massive shithole/crime ridden areas but they still cost a fortune

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ICantBelieveItsNotEC@reddit

Lecturers display massive amounts of favoritism and there is zero you can do about it

There is something you can do about it: become their favourite. Lecturers don't pick a favourite by pointing at a random student in the lecture hall and saying "that one".

The favourites tend to be the people who genuinely engage with the course and who can hold a decent conversation with the lecturer.

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iani63@reddit

The polytechnics turned into universities in 1992, John Major's era. Blame Blair all you want but this was on his predecessors shift.

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SignificanceHead9957@reddit

This is a great list. I commented elsewhere about what you describe as'bitter and twisted' staff. I can confirm as I've two relatives that teach at uni level. I would say that they are both tenured, earn low six figures, loads of holidays and they have the gall to complain about the students being boring. They hate them.

On the flip, they always have marking to do which takes up a fair bit of their own time and must be tedious. Lastly standards have been dramatically falling for at least thirty years.

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Educational-Angle717@reddit

They will not help you when you leave - I worked so hard for my degree and then once it finished that was just it, no contact, no support just have to go off and fend for yourself. It's like falling off a cliff.

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lovinglifeatmyage@reddit

It’s expensive for what you’re paying for. Granddaughter is in Manchester and only gets classes 3 days a week and one of those was a half day

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probablyaythrowaway@reddit

Courses are about a decade behind industry unless you’re in medical school. 99% of what you learn on your course is irrelevant - unless you’re in medical school.

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ForgiveSomeone@reddit

People like to shit on universities, talk about needing more trades and slag off international students etc. However, the harsh reality is that higher education institutions, alongside their students, especially international students, are propping up large swathes of the economies in many towns and cities across the UK.

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R2-Scotia@reddit

The Russell Group, including both of mine, is heavily focused on the revenue from wealthy international students, at the expense of local students

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UnSpanishInquisition@reddit

Probably all the undocumented sexual crimes tbh. Most of the women I met through my wife whilst she was at uni (and including my wife.) Had some form of sexual assault wether on the dance floor or in their halls. My wife herself was drugged by someone she had considered a friend and he potentially did it to ALOT of other girls but she had no proof and needed the lifts he gave her to and from her bar job. I wish she had reported him but it was before we met.

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No_Responsibility350@reddit

Lecturers generally read word for word from the presentation slides that are word for word from the textbook. Uni courses are one big expensive scam - don’t worry about going to that 9am, you’ll still pass if you study yourself

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ayeayefitlike@reddit

I would love to be able to go off piste and not have to have all the keywords on slides - but we get complaints if all the content isn’t on the slides! Because half the students aren’t there and they want to be able to learn from your slides, not your lecture.

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Impressive-Safe-7922@reddit

I had a lecturer who only posted redacted versions of her slides, with all the keywords blanked out so you had to go to the lecture to know what the slides were talking about. On the other hand, I had a lecturer who gave us handouts with the lecture printed word for word, so all you needed to do was get a copy of the handout and you were basically set (and yet I still went to every single lecture!)

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ayeayefitlike@reddit

I got told I wasn’t allowed to post redacted slides because it’s an accessibility issue. I tried for a while only putting pictures and diagrams on the slides and otherwise talking around them - got complaints about that too. It really kills creativity and my ability to give a good and interesting lecture when I have to read word for word what is given to students in slides against the specific learning outcomes they need to pass in their exams. But it’s not my fault, they make me do this.

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No_Responsibility350@reddit

I didn’t realise you’re told to do it that way! I think it’s counterintuitive (for me, at least) because it made me not want to pay attention since I’d already studied exactly what they were speaking about from the textbook.

It made the entire course feel far more expensive than it was worth because realistically I could’ve bought the textbook for much cheaper

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ayeayefitlike@reddit

I agree - I think for most students, it makes lectures more boring and attendance more pointless. I personally feel the complaints from students when slides don’t have every fact the lecturer says on them are not ones we should be bowing down to - but I’m not in charge.

When lecturers present at academic conferences, the presentation style is totally different. Some are good and some not, because presentation design skills aren’t everyone’s forte, but the style is much less text reliant. Because we aren’t being made to do that.

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Ladyshambles@reddit

I had one lecturer read word for word the cliff notes page on the book lol

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InformalBack@reddit

A lot of people have no idea if they want to do that subject or not. And end up just being not that helpful and skip a lot of stuff.

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Al89nut@reddit

It's very difficult to sack incompetent lecturers and students suffer because of that.

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OverallResolve@reddit

There will be a negative ROI for a lot of people.

If you didn’t particularly enjoy your time then this can feel especially bad.

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EducationalHandle182@reddit

There isnt as much of a social scene as you might expect.

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Routine_Ad1823@reddit

Mine had a excellent social scene... if you liked drinking (I'm sure it's different now). Luckily I very much did like drinking, but I definitely expected there to be more high-brow going on. Political awareness and the like.

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Intelligent_Put_3606@reddit

It reinforced the idea of how little I had in common with almost everyone - however that was a useful lesson. That was in the 1970s - and I had come from a toxic family environment...

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GreatBigBagOfNope@reddit

Doing a degree apprenticeship is now the only truly sensible way of doing it.

You should avoid paying for it yourself unless you're desperate to study the subject (as in you actually want to do the learning), the degree is a requirement to have a career in the field outside of academia (e.g. medicine, engineering), or if you're happy to make the mindful choice to exchange 9% of your income over £25k for the rest of your life for the social opportunities.

Only go in if you specifically want or need it, not just because you think it's the done thing. If you're going to uni, hating your course, getting depressed, locking yourself in your room, and getting absolutely nothing from it, quit early. In my opinion, if you're not willing to attend your lectures, do your homework, and independently study your subject, you shouldn't be there at all, frankly, but I do appreciate that for the last 30+ years university has also had a significant element of social experience and networking so it's up to you how much that's worth it to you.

Essentially, you should know exactly what you're getting into and you should be mentally prepared to deal with the consequences of it.

[-]

CrowLaneS41@reddit

Despite the song, Zulu warriors were not famed for drinking salad bowls full of Lager, Vodka, Coffee and Piss. This is a myth.

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Routine_Ad1823@reddit

And dogs named Rover usually have quite good control of their bowels.

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cinejam@reddit

So I read law at uni 1991-1995 it was essentially free as my parents were on a low income/state bens. This was before the great expansion. First in my family to go bla bla bla.

2 of my kids have now been through the undergraduate sausage factory and what stuck me is the quality of their essay writing. It makes me read like George Orwell.

I feel even if students don't use AI to actually compose they do a lot of research using AI and this bleeds in ti the final product.

Also seems to be little engagement with tutors and lecturers and they went Russell Group.

Horrible feeling first degrees are expensive dog shit

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cinejam@reddit

So I read law in the early 90s. 2 of my kids have so far been through the undergraduate sausage machine and what strikes me is the quality of their writing. Makes me read like George Orwell. Ovi, I haven't been to uni in the modern era but I'm feeling a lot of degrees now are dog shit

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Jayatthemoment@reddit

What you pay, despite being too much for you, is not enough to provide a decent experience with low staff to student ratios at most unis. This isn’t changing because raising fees significantly is bad for votes.

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TSC-99@reddit

Student debt

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EUskeptik@reddit

The only worthwhile degrees are those that lead directly to a career in one of the professions.

Unfortunately, most degrees turn out to be extremely expensive because there’s very little chance of them helping you into well paid, satisfying employment.

An apprenticeship would in most cases be a far better investment. Get paid while you learn. ✅

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VeterinarianOk4719@reddit

+1 for apps here.

I went to uni and wish I had done an apprenticeship instead.

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howard499@reddit

The ugly truth is that it is a good idea to study.

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SignificanceHead9957@reddit

Philosophy changed my life.

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SignificanceHead9957@reddit

Your lecturers can't stand teaching you. They find you boring.

I have two close family members who teach at uni level.

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Wonderful_Falcon_318@reddit

Universities, and their staff, are optimised to getting you through University, but this has usually nothing related to an actual job.

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jlangue@reddit

Oxbridge dominates the university system. Everything is geared to being a lighter version of those ridiculously elite places. Or, at the other end of the spectrum, an American McUniversity.

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bcscroller@reddit

commoditization is the name of the game

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Unfair-Ad-9479@reddit

You will probably forget 95% of the experience, you will remember 10% of the actual content that you learn, but you will be reminded at 100% of the possible opportunities by the Student Finance people that they are expecting you to prioritise paying your loans off with every penny you earn.

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the-illogical-logic@reddit

That they will let anyone in nowadays.

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Daydreamer-64@reddit

Courses are designed to get you into academia, not prepare you for work. That is not to say that a degree isn’t useful for getting you into work, as many cynical students say, but you have to put your own effort into it and can’t assume university will just automatically take you there.

Most universities will be helpful with internship/industry placement opportunities and applications if you are proactive and come back to them at different stages of application (where to go to find out more, where to look for information and resources, help with CV and cover letters, interview practice), but they won’t guide you themselves. If you ask for help finding internships, they won’t follow up to help with your applications.

It’s similar with your course. You have to work hard independently, and often do your own research and learning. You have to put in loads of time outside of contact hours.

Lots of universities don’t have a personal mentor now, outside of the course. They don’t provide anyone who is simply supposed to be your first point of contact for information and support over the three/four years. Universities which do often don’t make an effort to make you have contact with them.

So no, degrees aren’t useless. The learning you do might be kind of useful, but you will also learn how to do independent projects and discover which parts of your field you are interested (or not interested) in. The degree will help you for a long time in job applications, not just for graduate jobs, but for years after when you apply to other positions. However, that is not the focus of the university. They care about academia, and spend lots of time teaching you how to write papers and conduct research (e.g. lab reports on STEM subjects). Student outcomes are rarely a priority, so you have to push for that to be something you gain out of university.

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