Your services are worth EXACTLY what your customers are willing to pay.
Posted by ENVYisEVIL@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 172 comments
Posted by ENVYisEVIL@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 172 comments
GalacticGaming1225@reddit
Your title is one of the most concise and accurate expressions of free-market economics. It's a shame the entire body of your post is dedicated to arguing against it.
The comparisons to the NBA's revenue split, the projections about future TV deals, and the debate over what constitutes a "fair share" are all completely irrelevant. There is only one document that determines what the WNBA players' services are worth: their Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA).
The WNBA Players Association, representing the players, voluntarily negotiated and agreed to the terms of that contract. They were not coerced. They signed a deal that exchanges their labor for a specific compensation structure. That agreement—not an arbitrary percentage plucked from a different league or a journalist's sense of fairness—defines their pay.
Let's return to your correct title: "Your services are worth EXACTLY what your customers are willing to pay."
The players' "customer" is the league, and the price was set in the CBA. If the players (correctly) believe their value has increased, their path is clear: exercise their option to opt out of the current CBA in 2025 and negotiate a new contract that reflects their newfound leverage.
That isn't an injustice needing correction. That is the free market at work.
TwitMediaCritic@reddit
They are "owed" more money... 🤣
TheLooseMoose-_-@reddit
Wait, so they wanna make no money? Wow these are really some philanthropic women!
adriens@reddit
Renew their contract with penalties/fines for stuff like this lol.
WindBehindTheStars@reddit
I don't support the WNBA (or the actual NBA, for that matter) at all, so I suppose I in fact do pay them what I owe them.
Plankton_Brave@reddit
I think the entire argument is men get paid more for the same job without providing any context as to why that may be.
Women in rock climbing are capable of competing with men. So the competitive pay is about the same. Endorsements is another story, though I feel that's another topic with it's own identity separate from base pay.
WNBA players get paid more than any other womens sports. So there must be some interest there. I know for a fact if the wemons all star team beat the men in any official capacity, men would show allot more interest. Even if they just beat them at HORSE.
WindBehindTheStars@reddit
I know what their premise is, it's just a bullshit one. They can earn greater salaries when the attract more viewers. As it is the NBA underwrites them, losing money in the process. Even if they filled the stands for every game, and had millions of people watching from home, still no one owes them anything. They play a game at a very high skill level, but that doesn't mean they deserve to make a living at it. They can be grateful they get the salaries that they do.
Confident_Page_5570@reddit
They are taking advantage of market pressures. It’s the leverage they have and anyone in their position should use it. No person in the NBA is making anything but a huge profit, even if the WNBA is not quite where it will be soon (making money probably).
P1xelEnthusiast@reddit
> They play a game at a very high skill level
* For women
They would get destroyed by an average high school boys team.
https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/
For some reason, the average American has no clue about how much physically weaker women are than men. The best women soccer players in the country got beat by a group of 13 to 15 year old boys from Dallas - badly.
B1G_Fan@reddit
Didn't the women's national soccer team win the Women's World Cup in 2015 before they got beat by the U15 Dallas team in 2017?
If so, the best female athletes in the world got beat by middle school boys who probably aren't even the best athletes in their own metro area, given that college soccer scholarships aren't nearly as plentiful as football scholarships...
Tisroc@reddit
From the posted article: Of course, this match against the academy team was very informal and should not be a major cause for alarm. The U.S. surely wasn’t going all out, with the main goal being to get some minutes on the pitch, build chemistry when it comes to moving the ball around, improve defensive shape and get ready for Russia.
WindBehindTheStars@reddit
Yeah, scooter, I know that, I and I don't really give a shit. Even the NBA (or the NFL, the NHL, the MLB, or whatever for that matter) doesn't deserve high pay was my point.
P1xelEnthusiast@reddit
If you are libertarian then you know that everyone is paid exactly what they are worth.
"Deserve" doesn't really come into play with it.
There wouldn't be an NBA without the players. I personally don't care for basketball at all, but there is a market for it and they fill it and are rewarded as such.
WindBehindTheStars@reddit
Yeah, so that was my point. No one in entertainment deserves any pay at all, but they get what the market is willing to provide. I'm okay with that, but don't pretend you're entitled to shit for playing a fucking game.
jcutta@reddit
None of that matters, they're competing against other women so a men's team has no bearing on them playing and competing against other women.
doktorjake@reddit
Careful there, if I didn’t know any better it sounds like you think men and women are different…
We don’t do that on Reddit.
Did you hear that, admins? Nobody here thinks there’s any difference between men and women! In fact, we don’t even think men and women exist! We’re all just genderless humans who choose what we want to be!
…Please don’t ban this sub.
HankySpanky_69@reddit
It’Z aLrEaDy infected mostly by lame posts from an AFB, I spend my time enjoying outdoors. There’s an occasional good post here I check while I have my morning business meetings.
jcutta@reddit
Since when is it libertarian value that you don't deserve to profit off your labor or to just be grateful for whatever crumbs you're given? They should be fighting for more pay as that is their right as the people providing the value, a value which the NBA clearly sees otherwise they wouldn't finance the league.
They tend to go about it in an incorrect way by comparing themselves to the NBA.
WindBehindTheStars@reddit
It's a libertarian value that you earn your pay, skippy. Sports, at any level, is just entertainment, and if people are willing to pay to consume them, them so be it. However the WNBA simply does not have the consumer demand to merit salaries above what the players are already given. For that matter, some would argue that their current salaries are already excessive of their performance. And atthe end of the day, no one in entertainment deserves* a seven or eight figure salary, no matter how well they do their job, so the fact that many of them do get such salaries is benevolence, not desert.
But do you really think the NBA sees actual value in the WNBA, or are they simply attempting to appease a sea of Karens demanding a bullshit merit of "equity"?
jcutta@reddit
Correct, they earn their pay, they aren't the marketing team or the sales team or in charge of building the overall brand. They're well within their rights to attempt to negotiate more pay for their work, that's a libertarian value.
Literally doesn't matter. This could be said about anything, and is essentially the same argument people use to say that stock holders and owners don't deserve what they make.
Yes, do you really think a collective of 30+ billionaire owners gives a flying fuck what women who don't consume their core product think? They are growing a league. The NBA itself took something like 30 years to become fully profitable. It takes star power mixed with talent. To gain that you need to foster a passion for the game via youth so people actually start to pursue the sport as a valid career choice. Professional sports leagues have always done things that aren't profitable in themselves to grow the reach of the sport.
WindBehindTheStars@reddit
Tell me you've never run a business without telling me you've never run a business. These people are very sensitive to what the Angry White Liberal Woman can do, it's why they pretend to give a shit about the pride nonsense every June. And support for the WNBA won't tank them, so they get to write off the expense. If, by some miracle, the leage actually becomes popular and profitable, they earn even more money. It's a win-win for them. But until the games actually become worth watching, the second scenario isn't likely to happen.
jcutta@reddit
Tell me you don't understand jack shit without saying you don't understand jack shit.
The NBA started the WNBA in 1996 and most of the teams are owned by the owners of the corresponding NBA teams and the league currently owns roughly 50% of the WNBA. They spend money on the league because they make money from the league. The league itself doesn't have to be profitable to make money in other ways. Including a broadcasting deal that kicks in next season which is estimated to be worth $200 million a year, the recently announced new expansion teams each carried a franchise fee of around $200 million, multiple existing franchises are valued in the hundreds of millions.
If you think that anything the NBA and the billionaire owners of these franchises are doing has anything at all to do with keeping "liberal white women" appeased I have a fucking bridge to sell you.
WindBehindTheStars@reddit
I'll tell you the point you keep missing, dumbass: they are demanding to be paid what they claim they are owed. If they want to negotiate for higher pay, that's fine, but the moment they start in saying that they deserve some level of money, that's where I have a problem, particularlywhen their boring-ass games aren'tgeneratingthe necessary revenue. Is there a part of that that you are having trouble understanding? I don't care what they want, but in a free market you don't get to fucking demand it.
jcutta@reddit
In a free market they and fucking anyone can demand whatever the fuck they want. In a free market the people providing the labor can and should demand to be paid to a higher percentage of the revenue generated. The owners can either tell them to shove it, negotiate a rate that is acceptable for both sides, or pay them what they're asking.
That's how a free market operates. If the owners can unilaterally decide what they pay and the labor has no right to demand more that is not Libertarian. If they feel they deserve more pay and they are putting pressure on the owners via public displays then that's what they are in their rights to do. You're missing the point that the current generation of players have set the league up to become profitable in the next few years. They have every fucking right to demand a piece of that pie.
If you walked into work and your boss said "congratulations, you generated an extra $1million of value, and btw you don't get a raise for it" I guarantee you would either demand more money or walk the fuck out. These athletes are selling their services to the league, just like we all sell our services in a mutually beneficial relationship to our employers. The biggest difference with professional sports is that there isn't direct competition or other leagues to go to, so they have to negotiate within the structure that exists. In sports where there is league competition (boxing, MMA, international soccer etc) they can go sell their services to the highest bidder.
bravehotelfoxtrot@reddit
They are attracting more viewers (over the past couple years), which is sited as a reason they’re protesting their CBA.
Problem is, ‘more viewership’ and ‘increased league revenue’ are barely meaningful, in a vacuum; these are just a small part of the bigger picture.
Pro sports are economic anomalies in many ways. I just can’t get my head around the whole “we agreed to this contract two years ago, but now I suddenly deserve a renegotiated contract with more compensation.” You see it all the time in the NFL, I’m sure it exists in the other big leagues too. Where else are people doing this? Asking for raises has always been a thing, but I sense a heightened level of entitlement when reading about these pro athlete situations. Granted, I experience none of this first hand, so I don’t really know what’s going on.
Anyway, this WNBA “pay us more” stuff feels similar. “We deserve more”— okay, maybe they do. Maybe they don’t. Players unions and their relationships with these leagues makes things weird, so who knows how “deserve” is even defined for any given player or group of players. It’s not like the league has many (any?) options outside of the union. It’s an interesting dynamic.
douglau5@reddit
The NBA subsidizes the WNBA. The WNBA has lost money every year and is on track to lost money again this year.
If they were actually paid what they were worth, it comes out to -$177,000 each.
Entitled brats
Comfortable-Panda130@reddit
Why would people pay hundreds of millions of dollars for a franchise then…
douglau5@reddit
I’d imagine it’s because league won’t go under due to the subsidizing by the NBA so worst case they can use their team for a tax write off. Best case scenario the WNBA explodes in popularity and they actually have a profitable investment.
PhilRubdiez@reddit
It’s worth something and the NBA subsidizes the WNBA heavily, so you’ll never operate at a loss.
famousdesk662@reddit
Get out of here with your sound reason and logic, Reddit hates that shit lol
dtyler86@reddit
Women watch men’s basketball far more than they watch the wnba and men watch women’s basketball far more than women watch the wnba. Don’t blame the viewers, maybe reposition the sport? Maybe put more money into promoting it? Maybe people just find it redundant and it’s never going to catch on? Either way, if it doesn’t draw the same attention as the men’s NBA, the money just won’t be therein the same amounts
JuanMurphy@reddit
NBA players get 50% of revenue WNBA get something like 12.5%. They want a higher revenue share and they think that’s fair. In addition to that they don’t want more games and they want a higher minimum and want a higher cap. They look to the NBA and think they should have something like that. The problem is the leagues are not similar in any way. The NBA is owned by the team owners…that’s it. The WNBA is owned by the NBA, the WNBA owners and investors and the league has never turned a profit. Last year was the most successful season ever and they still lost $40M. My guess is the NBA is using the WNBA as a write-off, but those investors want a ROI so I don’t see them giving up any % until they get a significant profit.
Fletch71011@reddit
They don't do it for the write-off. That's still a big loss. They do it for optics/PR. The positive perception they get from keeping it going is probably worth the cost.
JBCTech7@reddit
a -40m annual PR campaign? Is that a normal cost for publicity for a business?
obtk@reddit
Mate, Stephen Curry's salary is $55.7 million. I know, he's a top player and has all that's associated with that, and he likely turns an overall profit for his team, but just saying, that's the kind of money the NBA ecosystem has floating around. $40 mill ain't much.
burnedsmores@reddit
Industry measurement agencies believe NBA spends \~$100M on traditional marketing channels, so $40M to get women and girls to think basketball has some sort of a positive halo is pretty cheap https://advertisers.mediaradar.com/nba-national-basketball-association-advertising-profile
Fletch71011@reddit
Yes. They can keep stars that commit sexual assault against women and help alleviate the claims of misogyny against them. $40 million is nothing for that.
oboshoe@reddit
well of course they write off the loss. the irs requires it as do accounting standards.
but they certainly would prefer to earn money as opposed to losing it.
The NBA probably sees the WNBA as a marketing expense. People who get interested in watching the WNBA are also likely to spend money on the NBA too.
justGOfastBRO@reddit
In what rock climbing event? Certainly nothing scored, judged, or timed in any way.
Plankton_Brave@reddit
From what I've seen they are competitive with men. I'm not an expert on it, I just watch some wemons sports from time to time, to see if it's interesting. Certainly more competitive than in basketball that's for sure.
justGOfastBRO@reddit
They're not.
Dont-Fear-The-Raeper@reddit
The UFC pays women at the top as much as men. Yet they're infamous for underpaying the talent.
As much as I enjoy CC playing, there's no way the women's league should parity pay the men's.
lightorangeagents@reddit
Don't most wnba players go international to get more money? Most people Ive heard on the topic of wnba say it's shit managed and the players have better opportunities elsewhere.
Dont-Fear-The-Raeper@reddit
Most NBA players in the 90s would play in the euro league to make ends meet.
Theoryboi@reddit
Damn I was looking to see what libertarians have to say about the police beating William McNeil but they’re too busy complaining about… women’s basketball?
Particular-Bar376@reddit
Look at the Libertarians caring what other people wear on their own bodies in public…. Unbelievable.
sanguinerebel@reddit
Not wanting the state to mandate/ban things and not having any opinion or ability to criticize something are entirely different things.
Particular-Bar376@reddit
Excellent point. So then why is the above picture at all relevant to the discussion of libertarianism?, Besides of course, the right for people to protest and say what they want to get better pay and working conditions for themselves, which I understand is being the basis of libertarianism. But besides that… Because the tone of this post was negative, so it’s gotta be something else right? What is it?
sanguinerebel@reddit
Many people who make claims that they deserve more money for whatever it is they are doing tend to try and get the state to mandate that. I'm not sure whether these ladies were doing that or not. Some more context by OP would be useful.
Particular-Bar376@reddit
Yeah seems like this sub should be applauding them, tbh, because the only govt handout was likely for the stadium and these athletes aren’t looking for help from anyone else besides those who want to read their shirts. Seems pretty damn lib to me, but what do I know? Only been voting lib since Harry Fucking Brown ‘96, but that’s just me….. 🤷🏼♂️
Tito_Tito_1_@reddit
Assuming there truly is a problem (since there isn't), do they really think that being unprofessional and broadcasting their ignorance to the world is the solution?
Gotta_Gett@reddit
Ignorance? How so? The league is adding two more teams which means the league needs to renegotiate the contracts with the CBA. The WNBA wants to add to the contract that the women cannot play in other leagues like UNRIVALED. The players won't agree unless the WNBA increases the revenue sharing.
Seems like you are the ignorant one here.
Tito_Tito_1_@reddit
It's ignorant because the players are conflating what they are owed - which is clearly discernible - with what they deserve - which is not so clearly discernible. Unless they are not being paid what's stated in there contracts, they are being paid exactly what they are owed.
That aside, why do they think they deserve more? Because they're paid less (even proportionate to revenue) than their NBA counterparts? Well who's to blame for that? Are they being forced to play?
And that aside, what good does it do to protest with t-shirts? Does that behavior in any way justify that they deserve more?
Their points of contention in the renegotiation of the CBA have nothing to do with what they are owed.
Gotta_Gett@reddit
Their previous contract gave them the option to break the contract and now they are negotiating. They wore the shirts after the meeting didn't produce an agreement because of what I said above. It was just for publicity. The contract with the players association is how revenue the owners of WNBA earns from TV deals, jersey sales, etc is shared with the players. This is common practice and exists in a lot of professional sports such as the NBA and NFL.
Redduster38@reddit
Women's pro soccer went through this. Turns out the women prioritized benefits over pay and when befits factored in, they were receiving more than the men.
I don't really follow sports, nor the details. But it wouldn't surprise me if the same setup happened and the "gap" is closer than projected.
chuckycastle@reddit
OP I’m confused as to what the conversation is meant to be; what am I missing?
Abi_giggles@reddit
The players are demanding higher salaries while the WMBA has never turned a profit and is funded by the NBA. It’s basically a charity at this point.
chuckycastle@reddit
I get that - what’s the Libertarian conversation? Are we meant to turn this into a political issue? Are we saying we want government involved? I don’t think government needs to get involved with this.
Abi_giggles@reddit
I hear you- my best guess would be letting the free market dictate wages, being determined by supply (WMBA players) and demand (not enough of it to merit a raise).
Gotta_Gett@reddit
The players have a contractual right to exit the contract which triggered renegotiations. How is that not the free market?
Abi_giggles@reddit
Are there actually negotiations happening or are they just wearing shirts? Other than Clark, I don’t really know what bargaining chips they have. If they leave they can be replaced. Lots of girls would love to play in the WMBA. They are being put on a national stage, which allows for sponsorships and viewership on social media. There’s tons of money to be made even if it’s not coming from their salary.
Gotta_Gett@reddit
Yes, there are negotiations. They wore the shirts after the last meeting didn't produce a contract.
unfortunateavacado24@reddit
The issue is with the ignorance in the phrasing. Saying they should get paid what they are "owed", not what they earn for their organization, is based on the Labor Theory of Value, which is a Marxist theory that unfortunately many voters have bought into.
Gotta_Gett@reddit
The WNBA and CBA are in the midst of contract negotiations. The WNBA wants the players to be locked out of participating in other leagues such as UNRIVALED. The CBA won't agree unless the players get a greater percentage of revenue sharing. I don't know why Libertarians are so against all this.
NottingHillNapolean@reddit
The WNBA should introduce profit-sharing.
Gotta_Gett@reddit
They do. The negotiations are stalled because the WNBA wants to lock in players to the league so they cannot participate in the competition's league, UNRIVALED. The players won't agree unless the WNBA increases revenue sharing.
Antique_Celery7195@reddit
Clark has brought in over a billion to the WNBA. Some of these women are carrying the entire thing and definitely should be paid for it.
Deep-Sentence9893@reddit
Just to be clear, I dont think WNBA players pay should be artificially raised to parity with the NBA, but I also have to point out that the employer-employee relationship is very different than a service provider-client relationship. Not recognizing basic fact like this is what keeps libertarian ideas from.gainjng mainstream acceptance.
Gotta_Gett@reddit
They are literally exercising their contractual right to renegotiate. That right is written into their contract with the league. It is weird that Libertarians would think that is a bad thing.
Deep-Sentence9893@reddit
That's because a lot of people who call themselves libertarians are just conservatives who want drugs to be legal but are embarrassed to be conservatives.
In otherworldly, they don't want anybody telling them what to do, but are fine with the government or cooperations telling people who want different things then them what to do do.
RailLife365@reddit
Did these people not get the compensation that they had agreed upon with their employers to recieve for their services?
Gotta_Gett@reddit
They did. They have a contractual right to exit the contract after a certain point which triggered negotiations between the WNBA and CBA.
MangoAtrocity@reddit
Based on last year's revenue figures (-$40m across 156 players), they're owed a bill for $250k.
Gotta_Gett@reddit
That is what the league claims but it is not confirmable without them opening their books because the finances are combined with the NBA.
midwestXsouthwest@reddit
Yup.
Gotta_Gett@reddit
There is a clause in their contract which they can exercise to renegotiate. I don't get why Libertarians are so bent out of shape over people exercising their contractual rights. Also, as Dave Portnoy said, the league hasn't shown anything to prove the $40 million loss that is just what they claim.
soiledmeNickers@reddit
I guess I don’t give a shit either way 🤷♀️. Why is this a focus here in this sub?
aed38@reddit
“Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it.”
RoomLegal5434@reddit
The one on the top right is a man!
HolyPizzaPie@reddit
Don’t do that.
Intelligent_Ad_5646@reddit
“Dats RaCiST!”
Reloader300wm@reddit
"Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered"
NetworkMeUp@reddit
Who are these people and why are they mad?
MissingJJ@reddit
Imagine getting paid to play a game no one is watching.
AssociationDouble267@reddit
This seems to be lost on people, but as an employee, I actually give zero fucks whether my employer makes a profit or not. I show up, do my job, and advocate for myself.
“But I hAveN’t tuRneD a PRoFit.” “IDGAF. PAY ME”
tuscaloozer@reddit
A point none of yall are making. That nobody watches the wnba narrative was before most everyone in America had multiple sports books in their phones. As someone who’s made more money gambling on the wnba than my bartending job this summer lemme just say. People are watching. Golden states expansion team has 8 sell outs before the all star break. Lynx games are huge at the target center. The league is expanding and MANY MANY people are making money. The players disproportionately are not
Tasty_Impress3016@reddit
An old friend of mine was a WNBA coach. (He actually has two national titles, not to brag). He always wanted to pay more, it would have made his job much easier. He simply did not have the budget. You have to have butts in seats to make the numbers work.
These women totally have an option. Get a real job. You don't like what they pay you to play a game? Find someone who will pay you more. What they owe you is exactly the number in your contract which you signed of your own free will.
I used to argue with Brian about this. Do they deserve more? You know more about that than I do. Do they make a decent income for being in what is essentially an entertainment business? Absolutely.
gumby_twain@reddit
Now that is an interesting comparison. There's always an argument to be made that we need more subsidies for the arts.
beershitz@reddit
I don’t think we need subsidies for the ballet. Ballet needs better marketing and products. Broadway as an industry pays well. Movie and TV industry pays well. Nobody is interested in ballet. My wife is, but it’s so damn niche.
Tasty_Impress3016@reddit
Ballet is a gateway drug. Not all dance is ballet, but every dancer worth anything has studied it. And a lot of people not known for dance. But I've seen American in Paris about 122 times. Tell me Leslie Caron is not dancing ballet even when she is just running down stairs on the Seine. Batgirl was a ballerina.
listenlearnplay@reddit
Broadway does not pay well, lol. (Source, worked on broadway)
Tasty_Impress3016@reddit
Actually you are very correct. A few headliners can make decent money, but chorus doesn't pay what it costs to live in commuting distance to midtown. And is also more difficult than basketball.
Source: did off-off-Broadway. Touring company actually.
THANATOS4488@reddit
I think it's cool but I get so many phantom pains watching it that I just can't
Tasty_Impress3016@reddit
I personally would state that this is an argument against (public) subsidies in general. If people want to see it, they pay for it. Private subsidies used to be called Patrons.
ChucklezDaClown@reddit
So they’d get negative salaries? Do they know what that’s about or no
Bury-me-in-supreme@reddit
Ok I’m cool with that. Ur WNBA career worth nothing, so goodbye paycheck 👋.
ConscientiousPath@reddit
Wow they want lower salaries? that's very progressive of them!
Secure-Apple-5793@reddit
They’re just asking for a pay cut guys relax
ZEALOUS_RHINO@reddit
Anybody else think the Caitlin Clark push by the media has been a bit over the top the last few years?
Everybody in the media comparing her to MJ and Steph and yet she is averaging 5 turnovers per game and shooting 37% from the field. Maybe I am missing something but smells of a huge coordinated media hype cycle to try to make the WNBA relevant during a dead period in the sports calendar. And its failing now because she is just not that good.
But the players still think they are all big shots and celebrities now, meanwhile the product is just as mediocre as it was 3 years ago. These girls really do not realize how lucky they have it right now with everybody and their brother trying to float their league.
TarnishedAccount@reddit
No one watches the WNBA….so pay them nothing or make them pay to play?
SpareSimian@reddit
The real crime is teaching kids that they can all make a living in sports. It's a genetic lottery that rewards only the lucky few.
Kids, stay in school and learn some math, science, and writing.
Schleam69@reddit
lol fucking idiots, pay us more for providing a lesser product
tacticalslacker@reddit
Imagine standing on the shoulders of male professional athletes and having uncontrollable diarrhea
DanOhMiiite@reddit
I'd only watch the WNBA if Jordan came out of retirement and declared himself a woman.
Anen-o-me@reddit
They actually take money from the NBA to pay WNBA salaries.
DanOhMiiite@reddit
Basketball welfare
FatMamaJuJu@reddit
As usually yall are chiming in on a topic yall know absolutley nothing about. The WNBA just signed a brand new 2.2 billion dollar media deal starting next year and is gearing up to rapidly expand. The CBA also expires October 31st, and the players (who's backs all this growth is built off of) would like to get a slice of the pie. Right now with the current revenue sharing agreement, WNBA players earn 9% of league revenue, compared to 50% for NBA players. The women aren't even asking for as much as the men, just more than the pathetic scraps they currently make. The league clearly sees big value ahead andif its investing in growth, the labor that makes it happen deserves to benefit too. But its more fun to dunk on women amiright fellas?
MRREALDEALHOLYCAWK@reddit
The wnba still operates at a net negative and the new rights deal hasn’t hit, so it’s impossible to gauge net income after it. The women do deserve a better revenue split if the league actually turns a profit, however they absolutely don’t deserve to try and be ahead of the curve and get more money before the money comes in. There’s a very good chance the league will not make more money due to the rising costs of operating and running the league. They are lucky to be able to make money for playing a sport in America to begin with .
opinionated_cynic@reddit
9% of zero is still zero.
A-Queef-In-The-Night@reddit
Wouldn’t know. Cause there’s no dunking in the WNBA.
UtahStateAgnostics@reddit
Paladrone111@reddit
Yeah, like: Amazon, while growing leaps & bounds in early years, lost money constantly due to investment in growth. Successful enterprises can be unprofitable, and can be worth investing heavily in the right talent generating billions in future profits.
Heck: most companies end up failing, going bankrupt — it’s curious how WBNA employees are often picked on, and not the employees (let alone leadership?) of actually-failing companies.
CamperStacker@reddit
That’s extremely misleading.
In NBA the clubs raise capital themselves. Thus the rights go to the clubs.
No one wanted to fund WNBA. It was left to private investors to take a big gamble - which they only agreed to do in exchange for a portion of future rights.
So they sacrificed long term $$$ for short term risk free $$$. Now they have to sleep in the bed they made.
Nothing is stopping the players/clubs buying out the owners - which they won’t do because they know those owners haven’t even got what they invested back yet.
Avocadoavenger@reddit
Not a fella, but the only reason I will ever watch the WNBA is for Caitlin Clark and the league treats her like garbage. They can go get real jobs if they have an issue.
A-Queef-In-The-Night@reddit
Wouldn’t know. Cause there’s no dunking in the WNBA.
StopManaCheating@reddit
Women in the WNBA get paid less than 10% of the league’s revenue, while NBA players get 50%. They’re wearing those shirts because they’re in the middle of a labor dispute and deserve far more of the league’s revenue than they’re currently getting. The WNBA itself operating at a loss and being subsidized by the NBA is a different issue entirely.
But have fun karma outrage farming out of context I guess.
opinionated_cynic@reddit
“Deserve” lol.
Doomcall@reddit
Its absolutely not a different issue, how the hell do you want to pkay players half of the revenue if tge revenue you have doesn't even cover costs?
StopManaCheating@reddit
They earn 9% of the league’s revenue. There was this MN reporter who tweeted this online (@adukeMN):
I know this will be a firestorm topic
WNBA players currently receive just 9.3% of the leagues revenue(this includes ticket sales, merch, TV deals) for reference their male counterparts in the NBA is 50.0%.
This resulted in their salary cap being set at just 1.507 million for this year(less than half of Joe Ingles 3.634M)
In theory if they received even 40% of the leagues revenue that salary cap would be at 6.481 M.
That increase would mean roster expansion could occur, players could theoretically still make 3x their current salary and owners would still bring in 60% of the revenue.
Now to put that into perspective, that still means an entire WNBA roster would be paid less than Rob Dillingham will make in 2025-26(6.576M)
——————————
Now yes, the WNBA did lose 40 million dollars in 2024, but this is in large part due to the TV deal they are currently signed to, which in 2026 goes from roughly 45 Million annually to 200 Million annually.
This will result in essence result in the league making money over night from losing 40 to a net gain of 115M just on the TV deal alone. Even if the game and tickets sales were to stop growing, and merch stopped selling, it would still be in the green.
The current CBA would amount to players going from 1.507M in salary cap to just 4.0 M… a substantial raise however it would cost the league just 2.5 M out of that 115M TV deal profits.
If the players got 40%, that’s just 17.204M as a salary cap… a 11x raise over their current salaries, and still in the grand scheme of things less than 1 Jaden McDaniels(24.393M)
———————
The league is built on players whether you’re a CC, Aja, or Phee fan they deserve to get a bigger slice of the pie for the work they all have put in, and as the revenue grows, they should as well.
The WNBA players are not asking to be paid dollar for dollar what the NBA players make, from what I understand they just want a fair share of the revenue.
Now let’s enjoy some hoops.
ricochet48@reddit
Sure, give them a percent of the losses the league generates. Honestly hilarious.
azsheepdog@reddit
I don't support the wnba or any professional sports for that matter, but just because a business is losing money doesn't mean that some employees might be not getting paid what they are owed. I'm sure these players are all getting what is in their contracts, but businesses shut down stiffing their employees all the time. But yes, in America, no one is forced at gun point to go to work unless they are in prison labor. so everyone is getting paid what they are worth. if you don't think you are getting paid what you are worth, quit and go find another job.
ssaall58214@reddit
The WNBA is literally a charity. They are subsidized by the NBA every single year. They wouldn't even be in existence if the NBA did not pay their way. They have never made any money and the one marketable product that they have they want to eviscerate
Smiley1236@reddit
There seems to be a lot of teeth gnashing about a private organization and how they manage their gains and losses. If the WNBA loses money, so what? If they pay their players even more and lose more money, so what? It is the owner's money to spend. The league has not ever turned a profit, but clearly the owners see some value to continue to fund the it. I am not sure why this is a libertarian discussion, unless we are using this as an example of how things should work. Let the players and the league negotiate as they see fit, using the legal tactics they want to use.
Myte342@reddit
I don't know the specifics but I have heard that there is some major tax benefit to this for the ultra rush that own sport franchises. If they make money like the NFL does, great! If they lose money like the WNBA does... GREAT! The owners don't care, they can turn it to their benefit either way because of how the tax code is structured is what I have heard.
Smiley1236@reddit
Very true. Just because the balance sheet shows a loss does not mean that real cash did not go into the owners pockets.
247world@reddit
Does the league as a whole lose money? If so, why does it even exist? I don't watch basketball of any sort so I haven't the first clue but I think it's a question worth asking since this is being so heavily promoted everywhere.
A certain late night talk show host just lost his job, whether it's about politics or money it can't be denied that the show Lost 40 million in the past year, if that's true there shouldn't it be true here?
Morkhant@reddit
In my first year as an engineer, I asked my boss how we decide how much to charge. He answered, “However much we can get them to pay us.”
The same goes for negotiating salary. Either negotiate better pay or accept an alternative and move on. Granted, I think American professional sports have some spots where collusion/monopolies needs to be broken up.
Myte342@reddit
Are the WNBA people now trying to do the same thing that the Women's Soccer league is trying to do?
(I may have exact details off, but this is the general idea). They were offered the same exact pay model the men's soccer teams get and they turned it down. Then they went to the news and claimed they are being paid unfairly... even though they chose to stay on the old contract pay model themselves. Then they counter-offered that they should get the mens pay contract AND get extra days off, healthcare, and extra pay bonuses over and above the mens contract too. They didn't want fair pay, they wanted ALL the pay.
This doesn't even take into account that the women's soccer franchise only makes a FRACTION of the total sales/income/profit or whatever the term is that the mens league does.
Important_Total9588@reddit
Ok, so: the Capitalist Owners of the Teams Exploit the Workers (I.e. the basketball players) and pay them less than the value the Workers generate for the Owners.
The Workers are saying: Pay Us What You Owe Us, because the Owners are Stealing from the Workers.
It’s simple, really. A child could understand.
SomnambulicSojourner@reddit
A child could also understand that the WNBA has never once made a profit. The workers are generating no value for the owners yet. In what world should they be paid even more?
CopenhagenCalling@reddit
In what world are they not generating value? They just signed a new media deal worth 2.2 to 3 billion dollars. In what world should the players not be paid more when the league is finally making money? The new CBA they are negotiating will obviously reflect the increased revenue.
MasterLomaxus@reddit
While I do assume that the argument stems from the NBA vs WNBA thing, do we know what they're being paid vs what the NBA equivalent is?
Ultimately, it's political grandstanding for most, and legitimate worker's strife for others.
P1xelEnthusiast@reddit
It isn't an NBA vs WNBA thing. The WNBA exist off of subsidy from the NBA. They have never turned a profit. They have no real following whatsoever.
Your question of "What are they paid vs what are their NBA equivalents paid?" is completely irrelevant.
The NBA turns a massive profit and shares that profit with the players in the form of large contracts.
No one watches the WNBA so they lose money every year and they exist 100% off of subsidy money from the NBA.
As such, the joke is - if they are paid what they are "owed" they would be paid nothing and the league wouldn't exist.
MasterLomaxus@reddit
Clearly I didn't say what I meant to say, because you're the second one to dispute things I'm not defending
P1xelEnthusiast@reddit
No - I directly responded to you.
I told you why your question is completely irrelevant.
I then explained that they are not profitable and subsidized by the NBA. As such, it could not be viewed as a "legitimate workers strike"
You are neither intelligent nor a libertarian. You should go.
PTY064@reddit
Just ignore this clownfucker. They don't have any past comment or post history in this sub that I saw, so I'm assuming they are here just to astroturf narratives.
MasterLomaxus@reddit
Yep. Nobody new to an online community could possibly be making a legitimate point. Not even a lifelong libertarian
MasterLomaxus@reddit
Understood. I appreciate you clearing up my political indifference.
PTY064@reddit
Google says WNBA salaries are 66k-250k, with an average of 147k. I don't think a single NBA contract is worth less than 1m.
I've watched a couple of WNBA games, and it legitimately looked like a high school scrimmage being televised.
First game I saw, I even asked a girl watching which schools these were, since I didn't recognize the team names. She practically shrieked at me that this was professional WNBA. Odd thing to be on at like 10:30 on a Wednesday morning, but there it was.
The fact WNBA can even be confused with something lesser is enough to inform the average person that WNBA is just not comparable to the NBA on any level, other than the sport being played. I'd say they even get overpaid for the product they provide their employers, since the WNBA has never posted a profit.
So, it's actually neither grandstanding nor strife. They're just greedy and entitled.
RSLV420@reddit
Las Vegas residents were asked what they thought of the Aces. 3% were excited, 5% were indifferent, and the rest asked who the fuck are the Aces?
The Aces being Las Vegas's WNBA team that just won 2 championships in a row.
MasterLomaxus@reddit
I think I must have confused you. I apologize for the lack of clarity. I wasn't making a statement, but rather, suggesting a more comprehensive look at what it is that they're speaking out against.
PTY064@reddit
And I'm telling you, based on my observation, what a more comprehensive look would tell any sane person.
MasterLomaxus@reddit
I appreciate the statistics
Tkinney44@reddit
I know I couldn't play at a WNBA players level but if the sport itself was more interesting to watch and they could play well they'd probably earn more money.
cheesecrystal@reddit
So they want to pay the bill that the NBA has been paying in order to supplement their existence?
hardcory00@reddit
The US women’s soccer team made more than the men last decade. They should be paid more than the men. The WNBA makes wildly less than the NBA, they should get paid less. Pretty simple.
MilesJ392@reddit
WNBA franchises increased in value by an average of 180% since last year, a new record | CNN https://share.google/I4mg1sfjjTh6OPFNW
FlipGordon@reddit
Have they tried beating Alabama at Football?
Poetic_Kitten@reddit
Maybe they should start asking for 'tips' from everyone that comes to a game. Every other business seems to have hopped on this annoying bandwagon...
ManyThingsLittleTime@reddit
Women models get paid more than male models. Where's that outrage?
t0Xik3k@reddit
Women are never happy… with anything… at all.
Turbulent_Gene7017@reddit
With the comment “sex is a race, finish first or you lose” it’s no wonder you think women are never happy
t0Xik3k@reddit
These women are millionaires for playing a game, and still play the victim.
Bitches ain’t shit but hoes and tricks - Dr Dre
Turbulent_Gene7017@reddit
I’m not disagreeing with you on the WNBA.
I’m disagreeing with you that women are never happy. Black and white or blanket statements like this are immature and short sighted.
Turbulent_Gene7017@reddit
With your comment “sex is a race, you finish first or you lose” I’m not surprised that you would make a blanket statement like this
Turbulent_Gene7017@reddit
With your take of “sex is a race, you finish first or you lose” it’s no surprise to me that you would think that women are never happy.
MrTerrific3565@reddit
If they got paid what they are “owed,” they’d be making less money
DannyMeatlegs@reddit
I'm not a fan of either NBA, nor am I a financial expert, but it seems to me the difference in pay between the leagues is because the NBA makes a lot more money?? Seems obvious to me, but again, I work on cars for a living.
CamperStacker@reddit
That’s extremely misleading.
In NBA the clubs raise capital themselves. Thus the rights go to the clubs.
No one wanted to fund WNBA. It was left to private investors to take a big gamble - which they only agreed to do in exchange for a portion of future rights.
So they sacrificed long term $$$ for short term risk free $$$. Now they have to sleep in the bed they made.
Nothing is stopping the players/clubs buying out the owners - which they won’t do because they know those owners haven’t even got what they invested back yet.
MelbTrini@reddit
Bill Burr said, Women failed the WNBA... https://youtu.be/QY9Gz_IMn_k
kimad03@reddit
Failure of our education system shown in public. ….and people wonder why the DoE is useless
bkn95@reddit
looked at liberty prices yesterday. not any cheaper than nets tickets
Independent_Bath_922@reddit
Rorasaurus_Prime@reddit
History has repeatedly demonstrated that artificial price manipulation leads to eventual collapse of every segment that was manipulated. These are the kinds of lessons that history classes in school should teach. You are only worth what your consumers are willing to pay. No more, no less.
upvote-button@reddit
Soooo cut their pay?
24links24@reddit
No they actually owe the wnba money since it’s never made a profit.
TopRedacted@reddit
You know news is slow when people take five minutes to care about women's sports.
p4rc0pr3s1s@reddit
I'm going to start a YouTube channel and once I have 10 subscribers I'll start emailing the higher ups at YouTube demanding they pay me what they owe me.
I can't stand the WNBA or the fact that the media has decided that they're going to force it on everyone. I don't watch a lot of basketball to begin with, why would I choose the inferior product?
Stoneteer@reddit
Shut it down and let em try out for NBA.
International_Fig262@reddit
The thing is, they have a complicit media establishment eager to make them the victims. They have every incentive to moan because either the NBA will cave and lose more money on this medicore product... or they can continue to be paid well but the added benefit of pretending they're martyrs.
BastiatF@reddit
If you want the same pay as men you should compete against them
Letardic@reddit
Also amtrak