Firefox dev says Intel Raptor Lake crashes are increasing with rising temperatures in record European heat wave — Mozilla staff's tracking overwhelmed by Intel crash reports, team disables the function

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ElementII5@reddit

I would suspect most users do not associate their crashing with Intel and just accept it as something normal while using a PC.

I am on AM5 and was on AM4 for some years before that. Can't even remember when my last crash was.

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Kougar@reddit

That's just it, it always been the case. The typical PC user accepts crashes as a normalcy of daily operation, and only make an attempt to do something about them when they become too much to ignore.

Even people with enough knowledge to build a PC don't think twice about verifying stability, they assume if windows installs then it's stable and begin using it, just to experience BSoDs from slightly unstable memory. In the first year of AM5's life it was so extremely common because people just assumed the memory would work at 6000 regardless of all other factors.

Windows is a shit OS, but there's zero excuse for a system to have rare BSoDs or program crashes. There's always an underlying reason for crashes if they begin to occur. This isn't the Win 95/98 era where programs could crash and leave corrupted memory behind that if the program was restarted said program would then try to run within again.

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Sergiow13@reddit

My windows was corrupted because of the BSODs though. Not a specific application, but some files of the OS itself. SFC and DISM would sometimes help, but after a while it was completely unrecoverable.

But I have to admit that this happens very rarely. I would estimate maybe once every 50 BSODs or so. Older versions of windows would never survive that many crashes before corrupting in my experience.

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Kougar@reddit

System instability will eventually corrupt files, whether those are OS files, program files, or actual file tables the entire storage system is built on. Either a system is fully stable or it isn't and it's good to verify stability with various tools for that reason. Win 10 is more durable than past versions, but as ya say even it isn't immune.

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AntLive9218@reddit

Windows is a shit OS, but there's zero excuse for a system to have rare BSoDs or program crashes. There's always an underlying reason for crashes if they begin to occur.

Let me introduce you to background radiation.

ECC and checksums are widespread because bits are just simply going to be flipped, almost no matter what you do. Sure, you can go underground, and you can use a lead(-lined) case, but that's still not complete isolation, and also doesn't cover hardware failure that could be as subtle as just not good enough power supply.

At this point even (non-garbage) consumer devices tend to have ECC internally, but ECC RAM is still held hostage by market segmentation.

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Kougar@reddit

Except a single randomly flipped bit is hardly guaranteed to crash the related program, let alone the entire OS. It may garble some text or spaz out a jpg file, or most likely will be be non-active data that won't even end up written to disk at shutdown. It's possible to go years between BSoDs if you run a tight system, I've done it. And as you point out, DDR5 runs ECC internal within the RAM chips making this even less likely. It's not full ECC, but you certainly don't need full ECC to have a BSoD-free experience.

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AntLive9218@reddit

Now pick a chance. Is there "always an underlying reason" (implying no background radiation), or "a single randomly flipped bit is hardly guaranteed to crash", accepting that "random" crashes do occur with healthy hardware for reasons the user couldn't have avoided.

Guess the "you certainly don't need full ECC to have a BSoD-free experience" picks the option of denial of background radiation.

I'm happy for your great experience, but you shouldn't expect everyone to have the same. The "It may garble some text or spaz out a jpg file" experience has significantly more serious consequences for those using their computers for work, and the frequency of that heavily varies with location, especially affected by altitude.

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CrzyJek@reddit

Id wager most users have no clue about how their system works. Hell, on my AM4 system I used to get crashes with driver timeouts and then black screens when I was running my 6800xt. The average person would attribute that to the GPU issue.

But it wasn't. It was my RAM. I lowered the RAM speed and fabric speed about 33mhz and my crashes and black screens went away. GPU untouched.

People don't seem to realize how intricate and sensitive all these parts are and how they all work together.

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dorel@reddit

You lowered the RAM speed because you overclocked it?

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CrzyJek@reddit

Correct. My small overclock became unstable after a couple years. Lowering it a hair fixed the issue. Something as simple as that can set off a whole host of issues.

But as others have pointed out, people seem to forget that XMP/EXPO enabled RAM is still an overclocked module. You could end up with an XMP spec that's enabled that's just on the verge of being unstable, and that one game doesn't play nice with it and sets off all sorts of errors. Or it could be the motherboard you have it plugged into where the XMP profile doesn't play nice with the power delivery.

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dorel@reddit

From what I've noticed most memory modules use a higher voltage in XMP mode, so it's still overclocking indeed, although it's supposed to work.

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reddanit@reddit

Indeed - probably the most notorious example of this is using XMP/AMP for RAM. Most of the time it's fine, but it's also just about the most common type of overclocking people do. And it's rather unique in how it's outright typical for people to not even consider it overclocking.

Despite that, or maybe because of its popularity, just setting those is one of the most commons reasons for PCs being unstable. It's also pretty annoying to get to peoples skull to even try disabling XMP/AMP as diagnostic step because they cannot fathom it causing trouble. I've personally had to outright dissuade one person IRL from buying a new PSU before they bothered to check if their system is stable without XMP...

All that say, nowadays when it comes to first question about unstable system, the "is XMP on" has pretty stiff competition in form "is this Raptor Lake" lol.

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AntLive9218@reddit

Indeed - probably the most notorious example of this is using XMP/AMP for RAM. Most of the time it's fine, but it's also just about the most common type of overclocking people do.

It doesn't help that advertisements are tests are often done with that enabled, setting performance expectations without guaranteeing that to be possible to reach.

It's atrocious though how are the solutions intentionally not made available to regular consumers. ECC memory would make the detection of problems possible before they cause issues, and (L)RDIMM (apparently "just" CUDIMM for customers) would avoid a significant chunk of overloading the memory controller.

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Unkechaug@reddit

Wait, so they don’t guarantee those XMP profiles can be attained? Then why are they advertising RAM specs based on XMP speeds? If it’s not 100% stable wouldn’t that be grounds for an RMA?

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AuthoringInProgress@reddit

I think it's probably because the failure point can be and often is the motherboard and the CPU. The memory itself may in fact be capable of reaching those speeds, but the rest of the system can't.

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cp5184@reddit

Motherboard QVLs have started adding caveats stating that listed supported memory is contingent on a binned CPU...

It's not entirely unreasonable... If you buy a motherboard that can run, say, ddr5 8000cl40 or whatever, and you buy RAM that can do DDR5 CL40, and then you pair those two things with a CPU that can't... The problem is the CPU...

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tengen@reddit

XMP profiles are only guaranteed within the manual's validated lists, the and the motherboard manufacturers' validated lists. It might be called "memory support" or "qualified vendor list". XMP is also not guaranteed if you are using mismatched kits, or same model sticks from different batches. If it's on the QVL, it only guarantees XMP without CPU overclocking.

Corsair used to (maybe still is) notorious for having really garbage mismatched sticks with super loose sub-timings so they still match the top-line mhz speed.

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AntLive9218@reddit

They are not guaranteed even in those cases. Memory QVL is just for tested motherboard + RAM compatibility, but kits with speeds not guaranteed to be working with any of the relevant CPUs regularly get on such lists.

It also doesn't cover the bait and switches like the mentioned Corsair problem, that's why QVLs tend to get specific, even showing the memory chip type not even regularly advertised for memory kits. Hell, it's common to show even the tested BIOS version because the list is really just a "here's what worked for us" compilation, and a simple BIOS upgrade may make the system unstable with just the XMP/EXPO profile loaded which worked earlier.

Regarding Corsair memory, this is still my favorite memory guide covering them: https://github.com/RAMGuide/TheRamGuide-WIP-?tab=readme-ov-file#tldr

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airmantharp@reddit

The stuff in a single kit is going to be the same - but two of the same kits could very easily be different ICs altogether of course

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Kyrond@reddit

The RAM can reach the speed. But if your CPU on a specific motherboard can reach the speed? Nobody knows.

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AntLive9218@reddit

Can't get really specific about "direct" advertisement, because it's not impossible that they shied away from that, and there are good reasons why most hardware advertisements are (sponsored) reviews or "leaks".

Reviews show what customers expect (and what manufacturers push, just not necessarily officially). For example the first 9800X3D review I just found in search shows the expected DDR5-6000 setup, while AMD shows "2x2R DDR5-5600" as one of the maximum memory speed limits, which is already significantly better than the Zen4 limitation.

Grounds for RMA? Haven't heard about a recent outrage, but every couple of years clusters of threads pop up of people complaining of RMAs being denied for overclocking when they didn't even know that just asking the BIOS to load a profile from the memory SPD was considered overclocking.

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Anfros@reddit

That has been exacerbated by dd5 being much more sensitive than ddr4 or 3. In my experience, with previous generations it didn't really matter whether you got ram that was on the motherboard's list of supported ram but with ddr5 this seems to be much more important.

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Sopel97@reddit

And these issues can be unreproducible. There's around 1/30 chance my PC will fail memory training at boot but still proceed, resulting in severe amount of errors that result in stuttering on every workload. It's identifiable immediately because launching any application will make my cursor stutter like it's dropping 99% of packets. Caused a BSOD from NV drivers once because I launched a lot of apps at a time without realizing the issue was present. A soft reset fixes the issue.

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VenditatioDelendaEst@reddit

Indeed. For the last 6th months I've had an Arrow Lake system on the bench probing (among other things) memory stability. Every combination of settings gets tested first by 20 reboots, validating that it doesn't fall back to 3600 MT/s and measuring how long it takes to reconnect to the LAN in order to detect re-training. Then the more promising settings get 5x30min stress tests with 5 minutes idle and a reboot in between.

I split the long-duration test across multiple reboots because I was regularly finding configs that would go hours with zero errors on one boot, then a nearby config that should've logically been no-change or even more stable would throw tens of errors.

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RolanStorm@reddit

hear, hear 😁 most of the time people blame the problem on any recent addition to the system and/or most obvious reason and write it out into Inernet

even if they figure out later that problem was not the part they put blame on they tend not to retrect what they already wrote

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Irl_Monkey@reddit

Can you share a bit more about the issue?

Seems like a crazy coincidence if so, but I'm getting random crashes on am4 with a 6800xt.

Always thought it is either the GPU or the PSU.

Did you get any error message or how did you diagnose the issue?

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CrzyJek@reddit

Look at windows event log. That's usually a good place to start. Lots of "how to's" on how to navigate that if you Google it...pretty sure there's reddit threads that go over it better than I can explain it.

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Dreamerlax@reddit

Other than Windows crapping out, I don't think I've ever had any CPU related crashes.

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BloodyLlama@reddit

Yall clearly ain't overclocking enough. I recently discovered windows 11 has a feature where it won't let you log in for 2 hours if you've rebooted too often recently.

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Helpdesk_Guy@reddit

I recently discovered windows 11 has a feature where it won't let you log in for 2 hours if you've rebooted too often recently.

What?! Are you kidding? Why even and for what reason?

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Sergiow13@reddit

Had the same issues. It is incredibly frustrating. "Tamper protection"

Especially frustrating because the pc didn't randomly turn itself off without the OS being aware of it, it always crashed with a clear BSOD error screen so microsoft can easily add a check to see if the restarts are happening because of BSODs or not.

Additionally, the BSODs were not only due to intel, as the crashes caused the OS to become partly corrupt, leading to more BSODs that are not directly related to the cpu but to the OS itself. Imagine if your Tesla forces you to wait 2 hours at the side of the road because autopilot had a software related issue...

Luckily I had a second (local user profile) admin account that I was still able to log on to....

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Helpdesk_Guy@reddit

Another reason for using Linux then!

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windowpuncher@reddit

One more reason to hate W11 I guess. It's on my laptop and I absolutely hate working on it, it's such a gigantic pain in the ass, all the time.

This October I'm probably moving to Ubuntu or something for my main pc, which really sucks because most commercial software, like Solidworks which I need for work, run like ass.

I've heard some people are using some odd W11 LTS version though so I might see what's up with that first I guess.

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Far_Piano4176@reddit

you should be able to run a windows VM with GPU passthrough for solidworks. might take a bit of tinkering to set up, but it'll probably be nice enough

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Dreamerlax@reddit

That has to be a Microsoft account thing, no? I haven't run into this at all.

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BloodyLlama@reddit

Maybe? Unplugging the ethernet cable doesn't stop it from happening so it's triggering locally.

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LkMMoDC@reddit

This is why I use oobe\bypassnro when setting up all my windows machines. You can still download free apps from the m$ store but don't have to deal with m$ account bs on windows.

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specter800@reddit

Yeah there's no reason anyone should be using a domain/network login on a personal system. MS hiding that behind a command is one of the more ridiculous things I've seen them do.

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puffz0r@reddit

It's why i transitioned to linux after 10, fuck windows and fuck microsoft for enshittification

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failaip13@reddit

What the actual fuck, that's disgusting.

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Stingray88@reddit

I certainly have…

I built my AM4 desktop in 2019 with a 3950X, and it was rock solid, no problems.

Then I swapped to the 5800X3D as soon as it launched in April 2022. I experienced 3 hard crashes within the first 6 months, and was never able to discern exactly what caused them. By December 2022 I experienced a 4th hard crash… except that time it would no longer post. Using the motherboard error codes lights and swapping in some other spare hardware I was able to determine it was the CPU that had failed.

Submitted and RMA with AMD, they had me a new 5800X3D in about 10 days. No issues since then, rock solid once again.

Shit happens…

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copperlight@reddit

I would suspect most users do not associate their crashing with Intel

If you're a gamer it should be pretty obvious. Pretty much anything using unreal will crash with an "oodle shader decompression" error. Just typing "oodle decompression crash" in to Google will immediately point you to various things that point to Intel, with this page at the top: https://www.radgametools.com/oodleintel.htm

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Sergiow13@reddit

During the heatwave it was very hard to debug. Sometimes it would crash right after booting, sometimes it would survive 15 minutes of cpu stresstest without any hiccup.

In hindsight this was probably related to the time of day. But who would think to factor in the outside ambient temperature as the instigator of an unstable system....

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Z3r0sama2017@reddit

AM4 I had quite a few crashes due too usb disconnect issues. AMD issued a fix and while it stopped the crashes their were still a bit of wonkiness.

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Strazdas1@reddit

most users have no idea what crashed the software/PC. Ive had cases where i blamed software crashes on software until by accident i found out my memory was having errors. Turns out the RAM was having enough errors to crash software but windows kept working :)

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Puzzleheaded-Bar9577@reddit

My computer crashes constantly because Asus AM5 boards are garbage.

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Reggitor360@reddit

B650/670(E)? Definitely.

The newer Gen (minus Prime and Strix F) dont actually suck that bad imo

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Alive_Worth_2032@reddit

B650/670(E)? Definitely.

E boards from all vendors have issues. There are compatibility issues with the dual chipset setups with certain PCIe/USB devices if they are used behind the 2nd chipset.

The reason I know, is because I went trough several boards (MSI, GB and Asus) and finally gave up and downsized my PCIe requirements.

No issues on Intel, no issues on single chipset AM5 boards (so far)

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Puzzleheaded-Bar9577@reddit

Yurp

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Reggitor360@reddit

Send it back and grab a B850/870 TUF/Tomahawk instead.

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Crackheadthethird@reddit

I'm running the prime b650 without issue. Have you tried disabling xmp/expo? Could be you lost the silicon lottery with your ram.

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Puzzleheaded-Bar9577@reddit

I have disabled expo and the instability just gets progressively worse. I have had to replace the ram, which worked for a while. And then two of my ssds on the board died. The crashes go away for 1-3 months then come back.

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Crackheadthethird@reddit

What's your power supply / power service like. This sounds like either a mobo issue or really power issue.

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Puzzleheaded-Bar9577@reddit

I have replaced the psu already. Went from an evga 750w to a bequiet 1000w.

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Crackheadthethird@reddit

Have you tried a ups?

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_hlvnhlv@reddit

Did you RMA the CPU or motherboard?

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Puzzleheaded-Bar9577@reddit

No, but I should have.

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Crackheadthethird@reddit

What's your power supply / power service like. This sounds like either a mobo issue or really power issue.

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Plebius-Maximus@reddit

Yup, AM4 then AM5 x2 here and my crashes are all self inflicted from RAM + CPU tuning.

Currently got my ram 99% stable lol

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Yodl007@reddit

I do, but it's my fault to set a too aggressive negative curve in PBO (-25). Lost the silicon lottery :(.

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stonktraders@reddit

Let’s not forget intel acknowledged the problem but they just to want to sweep it under the carpet for two generations.

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SirActionhaHAA@reddit

The crashes were happening as early as 2023 but the problem was acknowledged only in late 2024, and only because game devs were gettin so many intel related crash reports that they started going public to put the blame on intel

Users on unreal and other forums were already complaining about mysterious shader compilation crashes on raptorlake systems in 2023 but nobody gave attention to them.

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airmantharp@reddit

And we still don’t have a resolution to the AMD CPUs dying outright either.

Not deflecting blame - this stuff is just complicated and various anecdotal accounts don’t really help the engineers tasked with hunting the problems down.

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RTukka@reddit

Remember when people were recommending raptorlake all over the net and called them the cpus to get due to their excellent value? All those recommendations have resulted in a ton of people now left with degraded 13th and 14th gen systems.

I'd say it's due to Intel putting out a defective product. I know it may not have been your intention, but the way you've phrased it makes it sound like the people making those recommendations are to blame.

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BatteryPoweredFriend@reddit

Nvidia had to step in on the matter as well, since the problem also often manifested itself as an out of VRAM error.

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AnEagleisnotme@reddit

At least those issues are limited to K sku cpus as far as I've seen

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Inprobamur@reddit

That was one of the Intel disinformation talking points before they admitted that all chips from new-gen dies were affected.

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mockingbird-@reddit (OP)

...not according to Intel

https://community.intel.com/t5/Mobile-and-Desktop-Processors/Additional-Warranty-Updates-on-Intel-Core-13th-14th-Gen-Desktop/m-p/1620853

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VenditatioDelendaEst@reddit

AFAICT the problem is with the Actual Raptor Lake S-die parts, which are hard to distinguish by model number because Intel doesn't want to publicize the fact that a lot of "13th" and "14th" gen are Alder Lake rebadges.

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Willyscoiote@reddit

There are some games that warn the user that the CPU has issues, that is how big of an issue the 13th and 14th gen have become

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yoontruyi@reddit

I still think Intel should have recalled them.

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Proglamer@reddit

We managed to remember FDIV, we'll remember this one. For the time intel has left, tick tock

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ElementII5@reddit

Well first it was the users fault, then the motherboard manufacturers and now it's the carpets problem.

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boringestnickname@reddit

I've been on AM4 since release, never had any CPU related issues whatsoever.

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yoontruyi@reddit

I only had crashes with a 4 because of bad ram/timings.

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MumrikDK@reddit

Mine was a few weeks ago when I finally installed new Nvidia drivers after ignoring them since some point last year.

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Zenith251@reddit

I am on AM5 and was on AM4 for some years before that. Can't even remember when my last crash was.

Yup. Aside from trying to play with aggressive undervolts/voltage curve, I dunno what this "crashing" is anymore. I've got two AM4 and an AM5 systems going right now.

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rowdymatt64@reddit

I'm on AM4 and it happens around once every 4 months or so. I think my mobo (ASUS TUF WI-FI) has too many USB devices plugged in on top of using 2 NVME drives and 2 SATA drives. I think I'm overloading my PCIE bandwidth, but at this point I'm just waiting for AM6 or an insane AM5 deal because the 5800X (non-3d) is enough for what I need it for.

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blazze_eternal@reddit

Gut instinct for most is to blame the application they're using. Particularly if that's the only application that's crashing.

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-Outrageous-Vanilla-@reddit

My last crash (and only crash) on AM4 was bad RAM or RAM with incompatible XMP profile (like 2666MTs memory from Crucial).

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AntLive9218@reddit

The fun part is that at least on AM5, most EXPO/XMP profiles are technically incompatible, just happening to work most of the time.

Bad RAM is also fun. Made me appreciate Btrfs a whole lot more as it caught the corruption before it was propagated too much, but I got lucky with backups, and at least some data not getting corrupted before checksum calculation.

Can't have ECC memory though in common setups which would serve as an early indicator for issues, that would make devices we rely on too reliable.

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maarcius@reddit

Quite opposite expierence. Got am5 with 9800x3d and reminder why i stopped using amd before. Wanted faster pc thank 12600k, got igpu problems, io disk issues, some freezes. No hoping dying cpu issue is only asrock issue, and won't affect my work in any way.

While system before run fine for some years.

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Head_of_Lettuce@reddit

The only time I’ve had crashes between AM4/AM5 is when I’m tinkering with my RAM. Incredibly stable platform.

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violet_sakura@reddit

These chips are still dying even though intel fixed the overvolt issue?

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ideoidiom@reddit

I would bet most people don’t update

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Sergiow13@reddit

Also, systems bought when it first released should definitely re-apply thermal paste asap. Casual users will never do that, causing their cpus to run much hotter now compared to when the system was new. So things that worked perfectly fine when the systems was new could suddenly cause excessive heating issues and trigger the crashes.

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Blueberryburntpie@reddit

That's assuming the laptop/desktop OEM even provided a BIOS update.

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LkMMoDC@reddit

Yepp. My Asus vivobook 15 pro with a 13980hx hasn't received a bios update since March 1st 2024. It has rampant app crashes and bsod's when I play any game that's even slightly new. Most recently with expedition 33. I have to purposefully run the system in silent or normal mode with any of the power profiles that allow the cpu to ramp up randomly crash.

Obligatory fuck Asus and fuck Intel.

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VenditatioDelendaEst@reddit

If the problem is Raptor Lake Vmin shift, crashing means the chip is toast and no update can bring it back. You should seek RMA from Asus.

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LkMMoDC@reddit

Im aware. I started the RMA process but ofc asus support is dodgy. Im not super hopeful it will ever truly be resolved since any new unit I get sent will still be plagued with this issue. Asus hasn't even done the bare minimum of supplying their users with bios updates. Meaning all previous and future sales are doomed to failure and they just don't give a shit.

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Sadukar09@reddit

That's assuming the laptop/desktop OEMs even provided a BIOS update, or kept up with Intel's dozen or so updates on the matter when the initial patch didn't fully fix the problem.

OEMs can throw their BIOS updates through Windows Updates, and those can be made as mandatory, not optional.

I'm pretty sure the OEMs would want to push out those microcodes as well, because Intel offers no warranty for non-boxed products.

OEMs eat the cost if they have to RMA them AFAIK.

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specter800@reddit

OEMs can throw their BIOS updates through Windows Updates, and those can be made as mandatory, not optional.

I learned this just this month when my wife's Acer laptop got a forced BIOS upgrade and has since started BSODing like 5-6 times a day for no consistent reason I can find. Not only that, but Acer's BIOS has no mechanism to flash an old version so she's just stuck with essentially a brick now. I think it's kind of crazy a vendor can force something that used to be considered a last ditch "as needed if you're having issues" fix.

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Sadukar09@reddit

I learned this just this month when my wife's Acer laptop got a forced BIOS upgrade and has since started BSODing like 5-6 times a day for no consistent reason I can find. Not only that, but Acer's BIOS has no mechanism to flash an old version so she's just stuck with essentially a brick now. I think it's kind of crazy a vendor can force something that used to be considered a last ditch "as needed if you're having issues" fix.

It's a double edged sword.

On one hand you have people that never update their stuff (hence MS made updates mandatory in W10/11), but the forced updates breaking shit is just vile.

At least make BIOS flashback possible on laptops.

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Strazdas1@reddit

I dont agree its double edged. Anything but letting the owner decide the software updates on his machines is evil.

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Sangui@reddit

(hence MS made updates mandatory in W10/11)

Thankfully you can still disable that functionality through the registry.

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puffz0r@reddit

I don't believe that's an acceptable solution since 99% of customers won't know to do it or even be comfortable doing things like registry editing

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FormerSlacker@reddit

On one hand you have people that never update their stuff

There's almost never a reason to update your BIOS if everything is working fine... if it's not broken to break it.

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Top-Tie9959@reddit

Lets be honest here though. Microsoft makes avoiding updates so hard because they want to force things onto people they don't want. We're beyond the point where we're they're just trying to save those stupid users from themselves. And even if we weren't, having forced automatic updates means they should be well tested before rolling them out since people don't even have a choice.

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specter800@reddit

It's one thing to make Windows updates "mandatory", especially if they're security related (though the number of Windows updates that have caused BSOD's or broken functionality recently is pretty concerning). It's another to do something that low level. For the most part, I don't agree with windows upgrading drivers or anything closer to the metal. The number of times I've had to go back to older Nvidia drivers because their new ones introduced instability over the last couple years is more than I've ever had to do.

If I didn't know to check that and Windows was doing it automatically I would just assume my computer broke for no reason. Just like my wife assumed her laptop broke for no reason and I kind of agreed with her because I had never heard of Windows pushing BIOS upgrades before.

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shugthedug3@reddit

Yeah blocking 'downgrades' is now common.

Can still hardware flash though, of course.

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AntLive9218@reddit

And they have to eat the cost of extra support when mandatory BIOS updates make unexpected changes.

With EXPO/XMP being technically overclocking, it's not an uncommon experience that a setup that happens to work initially breaks with a new BIOS requiring some adjustments here and there. And that's just the memory, occasionally other features get messed up too.

People are afraid to update because it's a take it all or nothing kind of deal, and a lot of manufacturers push out updates of really questionable quality, occasionally even deleting the latest version when too many issue reports start to surface, acting as their QA.

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Strazdas1@reddit

I know Dell did keep up with foxed updates for intel systems, cant speak of others.

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toddestan@reddit

Does Windows do microcode updates? On Linux there's the Linux Microcode Loader in the kernel which can update the microcode at boot. Thanks to that, my Raptor Lake system is running 0x12f (for better or for worse), despite only having 0x12c loaded by the BIOS. I would think Windows would have something similar, but maybe not?

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violet_sakura@reddit

Yeah probably. I guess the degradation could also be due to heat. Although it's strange that it almost exclusively involves i7-14700K.

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TerriersAreAdorable@reddit

The 14900k is probably more at risk but the 14700k is much more common.

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violet_sakura@reddit

True but for it to almost exclusively involve the i7 means either i7 outsells i5 + i9 by a huge margin, or the i7 specifically has a design flaw. Just guessing as I don't have intel sales data.

[-]

Strazdas1@reddit

i7 does outsell everything else. especially in prebuilds.

[-]

CatsAndCapybaras@reddit

That's probably the chip with the highest combination of failure rate and install base.

[-]

REV2939@reddit

Perhaps I'm wrong but I thought Intel pushed it out via Windows Update.

[-]

Igor369@reddit

It is not even recommended to update bios at all unless you are having issues or need to do it to jump on a newer CPU.

[-]

letsgoiowa@reddit

My father in law refuses to do it despite playing games on his 13600k a lot. Says it would break it

My brother in Christ why

[-]

e30jawn@reddit

I haven't either. Same cpu, got it around release and have had it at stock clocks with a -40w undervolt. Things a champ.

[-]

mockingbird-@reddit (OP)

I am surprised that Intel hasn’t pushed the BIOS update through Windows Update.

Obviously, there are inherent risks with that, but it would avoid waves after waves of RMA.

[-]

AtLeastItsNotCancer@reddit

That and your typical non-enthusiast user probably isn't even aware that they might be running an already degraded chip. There's probably a lot of those still out in the wild.

[-]

mockingbird-@reddit (OP)

Intel likely has not completely fixed the issue with Intel releasing another update just last month to fix the issue

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/raptor-lake-instability-saga-continues-as-intel-releases-0x12f-update-to-fix-vmin-instability

Most uses probably didn’t know that they need to update the BIOS or have the know how.

[-]

PT10@reddit

Damn I didn't even know about this. My 14900KS already needed +15 mV added to maintain stability once the temps went from freezing in late March to regularly hitting 90 degrees here. Wonder if that's degradation or what (I did undervolt it, so it's possible I undervolted it in freezing ambient temps and got a better result initially).

[-]

Minimum-Account-1893@reddit

If you own a Intel CPU, just know most here own AMD and will almost always tell you to RMA it for any difficulty or issue. They have 0 experience or clue how a Raptor Lake CPU functions aside from whatever articles they chose to click on vs the ones they chose to ignore.

Almost none of these people know what they are talking about, because they use no critical thinking and instantly went for low effort, low hanging assumptions of degradation.

I'd explain it, but then I'd have an 8c AMDer with low operating power (since it is only 8c) argue that their processor experience would equal mine of 24 cores.

Never ever make a decision because of what you seen on Reddit, most of it is emotionally driven, with articles designed for that for clicks and $$$, and most of Reddit xp is based on YT videos and articles, not real world.

[-]

puffz0r@reddit

Are you running stock settings? You might want to RMA that, no CPU should require +15mv ootb to be stable

[-]

PT10@reddit

No, that was on top of an undervolt.

[-]

dabocx@reddit

Most users probably don’t update their bios. And even if you did if the cpu got damage it’s damaged and no update will fix it. It needs to be replaced.

[-]

TheRudeMammoth@reddit

90% of casual pc users don't know what a bios is.

[-]

Z3r0sama2017@reddit

Thats....probably not a bad thing. The amount of bricked boards from messed up bios updates or messing about with settings would be a sight to behold.

[-]

Z3r0sama2017@reddit

Well unless the update hobbles cpu performance so much that it isn't being stressed enough to crash.

Most folks won't be happy with performance being cut in half though.

[-]

specter800@reddit

Windows can now do BIOS upgrades during Windows update without telling users or giving them a choice. Ask me how I know...

[-]

nanonan@reddit

Not in all cases, and this is one of those cases where it cannot.

[-]

Strazdas1@reddit

the board manufacturer/OEM has to make an update specifically to be released via windows update for this. Some like Dell do this regularly. Some may not.

[-]

yeshitsbond@reddit

how do u know

[-]

specter800@reddit

I mentioned elsewhere but my wife's Acer laptop suddenly started BSODing like 5-6 times a day; it's essentially useless. I was trying to track down and undo any changes made since she said all she did was a Windows Update but that it showed a screen she'd never seen before during POST.

One of the updates Windows pushed was "Insyde Firmware" which I eventually found out was Acer's BIOS. The version and dates were all wrong compared to the Acer support site but there's no way in hell my wife updated a BIOS on her own and she somehow had the newest BIOS that was released in late June 2025 and her BIOS should have been the one from June of 2024 I think based on when we bought the laptop. On top of all that, Acer's BIOS installer packages will outright reject installing older versions and there is no manual way from within BIOS itself to flash an old version.

So my wife now has a busted laptop and I learned Windows can force BIOS upgrades without a prompt/warning/etc.

[-]

soru_baddogai@reddit

Yep this happened to me as well and I switched to Macs for work. Now my windows machine is mostly just a gaming console. I'm doing nothing mission critical on Windows if I can help it.

[-]

jaymz168@reddit

These chips are still dying even though intel fixed the overvolt issue?

The ones that aren't dead already are degraded. My 13700k became more and more unstable over time and I was undervolting it. OOB it would run at 1.4V ...

This is the result of failing to deliver on process so to remain 'competitive' Intel cranks the power. There really should be a class action suit over these chips, I gave up on mine and spent $1000 on a 9800X3D plus RAM and mobo.

[-]

MikeExMachina@reddit

I’ve been through several raptor lake replacements at this point. The latest one has been okay for some time now, but I don’t dare just leave things on default settings. I manually tuned various parameters to ensure my voltage stay comfortably low. My performance is a few percentage points lower than what the chip should be capable of, but I’d rather have the stability and not have to RMA my cpu every 6 months.

[-]

mockingbird-@reddit (OP)

Raptor Lake is 10nm, not 14nm.

[-]

Helpdesk_Guy@reddit

Raptor Lake is 10nm …

Looks it ended up actually living well up to Intel's 10nm name one could say, especially in this case.

A literal binary-based computing-device – It's ~~a 10~~ 1·0, on nm-level lithography.

!It works (1) permanently, then it eventually doesn't (0). Also permanently.!<

Plot-twist: Intel's initial marketing-claim and tagline since inception, in the 1970s and through-out the 1980s was actually for real >!"Intel Delivers"!< ever since even up to the early 1990s – That only changed when it became 'Intel inside!' in 1991.

Looks Intel is about to get back to the roots. Since technically, they're not wrong though!

[-]

Geddagod@reddit

You mean Intel 7 >:c

[-]

Helpdesk_Guy@reddit

Just because Intel renamed their 10nm-nodes in some medial wooing and pretty lame-o sleight of hand-trickery (to stop the already year-long mockery they had to face as the laughing stock of the industry, over their everlasting additions of just another +-iteration on 14nm±), doesn't make it (10nm) become completely another node (Intel 7), or does it?

What Intel now calls Intel 7 is still basically their age-old spectacular 10nm™ disaster no matter what.

Renaming a bad product (which ended up being loathed by the public for its poor/shady/tricky conditions), only to get rid of its rightfully bad reputation (without even changing anything of it), is literally the second-oldest trick in the book of merchants ever since – Right after artificially driven price-increases through deliberate scarcity via intentionally created shortages.

[-]

Ghostsonplanets@reddit

Intel 7 Ultra (issues)

[-]

Geddagod@reddit

Intel 7 Ultra (unstable) lol

[-]

BatteryPoweredFriend@reddit

It's a slow puncture situation. The problem is a fundamental hardware design flaw which no amount of microcode or firmware can resolve.

If your CPU shows signs of the issue, the prognosis is always going to be terminal. The only thing any of the mitigation patches or even band-aid fixes like significant underclocks can do is push that time-to-failure date a bit further down the line.

[-]

Pristine-Woodpecker@reddit

The damage is already done to those CPUs. Updating will prevent future damage, but won't undo what is already there.

[-]

Reggitor360@reddit

Yes.

Since its a friggin hardware defect causing it.

We are on the 9th ''final fix" by Intel.

[-]

Dreamerlax@reddit

Does it need a BIOS update? If yes, then barely anyone will update.

[-]

Exodus2791@reddit

Would need to have 'fixed' the issue via BIOS updates the moment you first pulled the CPU out of the box and powered it on. Anything else is just a bandaid over possible existing damage.

[-]

Shadow647@reddit

"fixed"

[-]

ElementII5@reddit

This is the mastodon thread, worth a read: https://mas.to/@gabrielesvelto/114813152373394985

from the firefox dev:

yes, this is a 100% Intel problem

yikes....

[-]

LukeNukeEm243@reddit

"microcode 0x12c had reduced the incidence of a number of bugs, but they've come back in full force when Intel released version 0x12f"

[-]

Pristine-Woodpecker@reddit

The microcode doesn't undo the damage that the CPUs already had, that's the entire problem.

[-]

goodnames679@reddit

It doesn’t sound by the description you replied to like it’s the entire problem. Bugs disappearing for several patches and then returning with a specific patch does not sound like it’s a persistent issue from the damage caused.

[-]

Sergiow13@reddit

Can also be a non causal relation though.

People are often unaware of the issue and the bios updates until they start experiencing crashes. So many who had their issue resolved with 0x12e will probably stay on that version in order not to risk any further issues. And people who are having (first time or re-occuring) issues on 0x12e (or earlier versions) will install the latest available microcode, which is 0x12f. A potentially large subset of those will unfortunately have lasting damage to the CPU and still experience ongoing instability because of it.

So while both patches might fix the issue, I would expect the latest microcode to have more ongoing crashes simply due to the fact that everyone who is facing ongoing crashes the last couple of months (including everyone affected by the heatwave) will try to install the latest microcode.

I was one of the firefox users in Europe who had major instability triggered by the heatwave. The randomness of the crashes made it very frustrating to debug. Also, for some reason Microsoft started locking my user account for 2 hours at a time because of "frequent rebooting" Locked out because of frequent BSOD's.... Thanks a lot microsoft.....

Anyway, glad to know that my crash reports are being used in this way!

To anyone else facing issues; make sure to apply new thermal paste! The extra heat causes it to solidify much quicker than you might expect! This ultimately fixed my issues as I still had crashes on 0x12f. And I didn't initially catch it as my CPU cooler was showing 35C max. But you need to remember that that is the temp of the liquid, and the liquid will stay cold if the thermal paste is unable to transfer the heat from the CPU to the cooler.

( Corsair iCUE H150i with Intel Core i9-13900K. Hope this helps if someone is googling this issue)

[-]

Pristine-Woodpecker@reddit

I suspect it may just be the heatwave that coincided with the patch timing.

[-]

goodnames679@reddit

The fact that the damage is permanent is well established, but I interpreted the above post as meaning that they fixed bugs unrelated to the damage (and then later reintroduced said bugs)

[-]

nismotigerwvu@reddit

Yeah, it sounds more like a tug of war between optimizations for performance and those for stability. AMD has both an architectural advantage as well as a manufacturing partner with a massive process advantage. Intel is stuck pushing their chips to the ragged edge to try and compete. These kinds of results are the consequences.

[-]

CalmmoNax@reddit

Intels microcode still blasts a megaton of voltage. Basically they decided to pump move voltage for short term stability. Glad i got rid of my 13900ks in time while it still had some value..

[-]

Lakku-82@reddit

I live in Texas and it’s way more fucking hot than any part of Europe. Never had a crash. This seems like a complete fabrication of an article to get clicks. Europe isn’t remotely as hot anytime of the year as many parts of the world who are NOT having these problems. I’m calling fake news as much as I don’t want to.

[-]

guigr@reddit

Unless you live in southern Europe you most likely don't have aircon

[-]

Lakku-82@reddit

I have ac and it’s set to 77. It’s also way more humid here. That’s not an excuse. It’s so much hotter and humid in the southern US than anywhere in Europe it’s not funny.

[-]

ClownEmoji-U1F921@reddit

I doesn't matter if it's 50C outside if every PC is sitting indoors at 20C due to air conditioning. Now, if it's 50C and you have no AC, good luck.

[-]

Lakku-82@reddit

It isn’t remotely close to 20c in any home in the US. That is super expensive to maintain and not the norm at all.

[-]

greggm2000@reddit

Ok that’s just not true, you can’t just blanket claim like that and expect to be taken seriously, not without evidence.

I can even disprove your statement, since you said “any home in the US”. I live in the US, and there’s times in the Summer when I keep it at about 20C, since I hate the heat. My home is well-insulated, and I live where power costs aren’t particularly high, so it’s not expensive to do so.

[-]

AntLive9218@reddit

Solar panels also exist which totally coincidentally happen to provide a lot of "free" power when the home is hit by sunlight, which is typically the most significant source of heat.

[-]

greggm2000@reddit

Indeed, and that "free" power can make a AC function rather well, as it happen.. and battery backup (which is common in solar installs) can take care of those times when the sun isn't shining :)

[-]

AntLive9218@reddit

Or even better, heat capacity of a properly designed home can make batteries unnecessary at least in areas which don't get both hot and cloudy at the same time often.

[-]

MortimerDongle@reddit

it's not that expensive if your home is well insulated. Our AC is set to 70 (21C) and we usually spend less than $150 per month on electricity in the summer for a 3000 sq ft house. Granted, I live in the northeast, not Texas, so it's usually below 70 at night.

[-]

guigr@reddit

During the heat wave the indoor temperature was 28-30 which is way higher than what is common in the US

[-]

dabocx@reddit

Its pretty hot in Europe right now and most people don't have a/c dude. People are literally dying in droves from the heatwave.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/jul/09/europe-june-heatwave-study-climate-breakdown-tripled-death-toll

[-]

Lakku-82@reddit

That happens here every year when northern states have heat waves too. Yet my actual god damn room is 80f….. that’s hotter than the entire continent of Europe.

[-]

_teslaTrooper@reddit

Most of Europe saw 38-46C this year so far (that's 100-115F for the muricans).

[-]

Flimsy_Swordfish_415@reddit

Yet my actual god damn room is 80f….. that’s hotter than the entire continent of Europe.

/r/ShitAmericansSay/

[-]

dabocx@reddit

And why is your room only 80f instead of what it is outside? Let me guess...you have a/c which a lot of people in Europe dont have.

[-]

Wardious@reddit

I live in France and the standard room temperature is at least 85f in summer.

[-]

CatsAndCapybaras@reddit

humidity does not affect cpu cooling like it does people cooling. Computers do not rely on evaporative heat transfer to the atmosphere.

[-]

AntLive9218@reddit

Interestingly it does have an effect both due to density changes affecting fan performance, and heat capacity affecting heat transfer.

It shouldn't make a significant change for the average person, especially in safe conditions of neither having the risk of electrostatic buildup, nor corroding metal and/or growing mold, but science is fun. It's better to let people know there's an interesting effect/possibility, even if it's not significant.

[-]

alelo@reddit

77F/25C is like nothing,thats the temp we have here in our office or me at home when its colder now during the rainy days there are days it reaches 35C here - and AC is not common in europe

[-]

revengeonturnips@reddit

"I'm not able to understand how the qualified experts with their masses of information have come to this conclusion, so everyone must be lying. It can't just be that I don't understand, or that there are things I haven't considered, they all must be lying."

[-]

mockingbird-@reddit (OP)

Which incentive do the developers of Firefox have to lie about the issue?

[-]

Lakku-82@reddit

Because why isn’t happening anywhere else? I keep my AC at god damn 77, which is HOTTER than europes heatwave. I’m not buying this is causing an issue at all and you don’t necessarily need a motive other than clicks and attention

[-]

Henrarzz@reddit

77F isn’t considered a heatwave in vast majority of Europe lmao

[-]

poke133@reddit

I keep my AC at god damn 77, which is HOTTER than europes heatwave

28C (82F) in my room as of now with 30 (86F) outside. this is one of the good days, a respite between heatwaves.. forecast for next Tuesday is 40C (104F)

and i'm nowhere near the Mediteranean South. you need to update your world model.

[-]

ClownEmoji-U1F921@reddit

It's 41C in Madrid. That's 77F is only 25C

[-]

mockingbird-@reddit (OP)

77?

Those are rookie numbers.

In Arizona, when it was 115 outside, it’s not even possible to keep the inside at 77.

Anyway, there are plenty of plausible explanations.

For example, they could have already failed last year during the heatwave when the issue started appearing in the news.

[-]

_c0unt_zer0_@reddit

no, the Europe heat wave went up to 98 ° degrees fahrenheit here in Germany about 2 ½ weeks ago, and up to 115 ° Fahrenheit in Portugal.

and if you live in a badly isolated apartment under the roof top, your temperatures can get even higher

AC isn't whitespread, because these temperatures were only rafely reached before 2015, perhaps once every 20 years for 2 days or something, or never

[-]

Pristine-Woodpecker@reddit

What's there to lie about anyway? The Firefox crash database is public.

[-]

Pwc9Z@reddit

I don't want to be jumping to conclusions or anything but you strike me as someone who'd vote for a child fucker woth ridiculous fake tan

[-]

ProfessionalPrincipa@reddit

I live in Texas and it’s way more fucking hot than any part of Europe. Never had a crash.

I believe you. Mostly because when it gets too hot or too cold your state's power grid crashes and you don't have the juice to run your computer. The problem kinda preemptively fixes itself.

[-]

Rocketman7@reddit

Most likely this is happening only on machines without the microcode fix. The heat wave just exacerbated the problem

[-]

ElementII5@reddit

You are speculating out of your ass.

microcode 0x12c had reduced the incidence of a number of bugs, but they've come back in full force when Intel released version 0x12f

[-]

Adventurous_Tea_2198@reddit

You sound like a low information voter

[-]

42LSx@reddit

I live in Europe and yeah, I'm doubtful as well. If Raptor Lake crashes when it is like at max 10°C hotter outside than the last few years, why are they not constantly crashing when OC'ed for example?

If this is true, it must be a huge issue of an incredible number of crashing machines all over Europe and IMHO we would hear users report this as well. Let's see.

[-]

Limited_Distractions@reddit

It's hotter outside certainly, but when you factor in that most of northern europe doesn't have AC and the buildings are all made to retain heat and restrict airflow I would imagine the average building during a heat wave is much hotter than in texas

[-]

dabocx@reddit

Everyone in Texas has a/c, rates for A/C in Europe are much much lower.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/02/climate/europe-air-conditioning-heat-wave-intl-latam

Only 20% of Europe homes have a/c

[-]

Lakku-82@reddit

AC has zero point here. You think people in super hot and humid areas just run AC below 20c/below 70f? Literally my room is 80 Fahrenheit right now with the PC on. That’s WITH AC.

[-]

dabocx@reddit

It may come to a shock to you but it is infact much hotter than 80f in Europe. That is why people are dying by the hundreds in this heatwave.

[-]

Adventurous_Tea_2198@reddit

You sound like a low information voter

[-]

Henrarzz@reddit

Let me guess, you’re one of those 10% of US population that doesn’t have AC?

[-]

bphase@reddit

In Texas everyone has AC though, no?

[-]

Rain08@reddit

I guess I'm lucky that my 13600K has been stable so far even living in the tropics. I had my PC built in February 2023, but as soon as I've booted it, I pretty much adjust the Lite Load setting (to 4/5) in my MSI mobo after I knowing the unnecessary power draw of Raptor Lake CPUs.

My BIOS was last updated on March 2023 since I thought it was pretty good enough for me so I don't think I've received any new microcode updates since then.

[-]

ghaginn@reddit

13900k, March 2023 as well. I think the microcode in those old BIOS versions predate the eTVB bug that caused the chips to overvolt themselves, which is probably why we aren't having any issues

[-]

Rain08@reddit

Who would've thought that not updating your stuff would prevent issues :D

[-]

Gippy_@reddit

The 13600K runs up to 100W less than the 8P/8E-16E CPUs. It's much less likely to overheat than the 13700K, 13900K, 14700K, and 14900K. Article states they're seeing more 14700Ks crash than usual.

[-]

copperlight@reddit

This is exactly what's happening to me right now. Games are going back to the old oodle shader decompression crash caused by this exact issue, although I'm getting a few other random crashes thrown in as well.

Already RMA'd the CPU once. Next one won't be an Intel (If Intel even makes a next one at the way they're going).

[-]

Ltsmba@reddit

I'm in the exact same situation now.
My first 13900KF lasted 1/2 years.
I RMA'd (took 5ish weeks)
Finally got the replacement. Been using it for 3 months.

SAME ISSUES started up again. Exact same issues as before. This time it was with a fully updated BIOS of course. So these processors are just completely defective. Even with the latest bios update.

A FULL refund is completely warranted in this case.

[-]

Proglamer@reddit

Next one won't be an Intel (If Intel even makes a next one at the way they're going)

The best possible 'shock antibiotic' to the fabled 'iNtEl MiNdShArE'!

[-]

SatisfactionGlad1749@reddit

Single core boosting strikes again. If they lock their cores and keep the VIDs under check they shouldn't have any issues, but these CPUs wanting to boost to 6ghz stock at like 1.5v even on the current microcode is what's killing them, and for what? A 3-5% gain in single threaded applications?

It's a shame these CPUs don't last out of the box, because they're fantastic and a little bit of light tuning keeps them that way, they just can't run 6ghz sustainably out of the box, not at any safe voltage without direct die cooling and a really good bin.

I got my 14900k stable, bought it degraded on the cheap. Downclocked it a little bit (5.5ghz all core, 4.4 on the E-cores) and set a fixed vcore with moderate droop 1.35v idle 1.25v load. 375A current limit, 300W power limit. Rock solid stable and never gets to really high temps. Actually performs better in sustained all-core workloads because it doesn't thermal throttle on a 360mm AIO with a contact frame and Duronaut like it did at 5.7ghz all core.

[-]

mockingbird-@reddit (OP)

Imagine you are a large system integrator (i. e. Dell) and companies start calling in because hundreds of their PC are crashing.

[-]

TheAlcolawl@reddit

I was on a server roadmap call with Dell yesterday, they were still pushing Intel super hard. Like absolutely breezed right over their AMD offerings. It's incredible.

[-]

PitchforkManufactory@reddit

Dell - the best friend money can buy.

[-]

IsThereAnythingLeft-@reddit

Probably why they are finally opening up to AMD a bit more even tho Intel was illegally paying them not to

[-]

Strazdas1@reddit

tho Intel was illegally paying them not to

15 years ago. Not really going to make the choices now based on that.

[-]

Willyscoiote@reddit

Well, it's well known that Raptor Lake sucks ass and a ticking time bomb, even with the microcode updates

Unless you get a really good deal, you should avoid buying the 13th or 14th gen. Go for the 15th, or a 12th gen or older instead.

[-]

Prestigious-Celery83@reddit

Just go amd, wtf

[-]

pmjm@reddit

Some of us need QuickSync.

[-]

ConsistencyWelder@reddit

I've never heard of an AMD system in recent times that has had issues playing back video. Quicksync is ok, but not that important for the large majority of us.

[-]

pmjm@reddit

When one needs Quicksync, it's more about encoding than decoding.

[-]

ConsistencyWelder@reddit

Not that useful for the majority, but sure. AMD chips don't have an issue with encoding though either, but I guess you could potentially save a buck a year in electricity?

[-]

pmjm@reddit

The hardware encoding on AMD integrated graphics is of visibly lower quality than what you get far more efficiently with quicksync. If you're running a plex or emby server, it'll run on AMD but you'll be way better off with quicksync.

[-]

ConsistencyWelder@reddit

Isn't that old new though? From before they massively upgraded their media engine with RDNA 4?

[-]

pmjm@reddit

Yeah the 9000 series of discrete GPUs seems to have much higher quality codecs. You know it's funny I have a 9070 XT for testing but that's one thing that slipped my mind to run through its paces, gotta work on that.

But the benefit of having it as part of integrated graphics is that you don't need a gpu at all. Like my Plex server is a headless 14900K and can run dozens of simultaneous transcodes just with QuickSync.

[-]

Seally25@reddit

Not sure if it's the issue you've hit, but as an FYI, AMD screwed up the AV1 implementation on a hardware level for VCN 4 (as in, the issue seems to be baked into the silicon): https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/issues/9185#note_1954937

This is fixed in VCN 5, as far as I know, which should include the Radeon 9000 series. As I understand it, the issue affects anything below RDNA4, which unfortunately includes all available AMD integrated graphics right now.

[-]

pmjm@reddit

Thanks for the heads up on this!

While AV1 doesn't affect me personally now, that's a big shame as it's undoubtedly the codec of the future and I'm glad they fixed it. Too bad it'll require a hardware upgrade for anyone not on the cutting edge, but that's also likely going to be true about AV1 in general as it's so computationally expensive.

In any case it's good to know so thanks for the comment.

[-]

ThatOnePerson@reddit

Similarly I want in my home server just for better idle power.

[-]

venfare64@reddit

Well, AMD G series CPU have almost comparable idle power consumption to Intel desktop CPU if having big concern about idle power consumption.

[-]

venfare64@reddit

You could buy Alder Lake S CPU like i5 12400 or i9 12900k or buying Arrow Lake CPU if QuickSync is your mandatory requirements.

[-]

RedIndianRobin@reddit

Even if they are overpriced?

[-]

driftheory@reddit

Says a dude who probably was supporting intel when they kept releasing quad cores as a high end processor until Ryzen slapped them around.

[-]

RedIndianRobin@reddit

I had an AMD FX 6300 for 7 years. I doubt you'd even know what that is lol. AMD themselves were literally scamming consumers in their bulldozer and piledriver days.

[-]

driftheory@reddit

Not that you are going to believe me, but all I ever had was an AMD. I started at AMD 64 3200, went to phenom 9550, x3 720, 8350, Ryzen 1600x and currently 5600x. I've always been an AMD supporter. Likewise with GPUs (ATI/AMD). I remember those days very well.

[-]

RedIndianRobin@reddit

I believe you. Just don't go around judging strangers on the internet from a single comment. I started myself from Intel Pentium 4 days and then to Core 2 Duo, Core 2 Quad and then to FX 6300 and now on an 11400F for the past 5 years.

Now I am looking for an upgrade and the 14600K is extremely cheap compared to the 9600X while also being better at gaming and shader compilation time. Seems like if you can't get an X3D chip, Intel seems the better looking option in the mid range segment.

My 4070 is heavily bottlenecked by the 11400F. I spent a good amount on an OLED monitor recently so can't go big on a 9800X3D.

[-]

BasedDaemonTargaryen@reddit

Same as people buying Intel in 2011-2016, if you want the best, get Intel, no matter the cost. That didn't mean paying outrageous prices, but a good $250 for the i5 6600K for example if you needed a midrange stable PC that didn't overheat nor consume outrageous amounts of power.

And so, nowadays paying $170 for a 7600X (or $160 for a 9600X on sale thought that's gone now it's $200), $240 for a 7700X, $315 for a 7900X, $340 7800X3D, not even $470 for a 9800X3D are really overpriced at all, the only reason you'd pick intel is if you're already on the LGA 1700 platform and you need to upgrade from an i3 or a 12400F to something like a 14600K that should be stable, or if you need productivity (AND CANNOT AFFORD A 9950X/3D) you get a core ultra 7 chip, so very specific scenarios.

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Gippy_@reddit

I don't think anyone's really suggesting buying an Intel LGA1700 system new at this point, especially when the 265KF got slashed down to $230. That makes it worth buying especially for a mixed-use system because it's still outstanding when it comes to productivity.

Same as people buying Intel in 2011-2016, if you wanted the best, you got Intel, no matter the cost.

This is revisionist history. The i5-2500K when it launched was around $230, and the i7-2600K was $330. Those were dirt cheap compared to today's 9950X3D which is $660. Intel had its HEDT line but that was super niche and I personally didn't know anyone who bought HEDT when they could just overclock a Sandy Bridge CPU to 5GHz. Also AMD only had Bulldozer. The FX-8350 came out almost 2 years after the 2600K and couldn't even beat it, and Intel already put out the 3770K. AMD FX was complete garbage, way worse than the current AM5 vs. Arrow Lake situation.

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BasedDaemonTargaryen@reddit

i7 2600K was $330 and was the best consumer gaming CPU you could get back then, but not the best one for productivity that's what the HEDT line was for, and guess what, it was super overpriced because of lack of competition in that area, same as Threadripper.

$330 2011 dollars are worth around $470 in 2025, which is basically what the 9800X3D costs today, the best consumer gaming CPU. The 9950X3D is in another separate category. It's not meant for regular consumers, but for enthusiasts who need the extra productivity AND gaming performance. Hell, even the 9950X can be found for around $500 right now, but it's not really meant for gamers either. The 9950X3D is priced the way it is because of the Ultra 9 285K's MSRP of $600, the extra gaming performance makes it appealing for ultra enthusiast gamers that want productivity too.

The 6700K was $340 in 215, around $460 today, same situation, so it's not even an argument either.

And yes the Ultra 7 265K makes for an amazing productivity + gaming CPU, anyone that wants both and isn't planning on upgrading in the next 5-6 years should get one for a new build. But it's not the best in any category, and so people that want THE BEST, just don't get one. It's amazing value, and much better value than whatever trash AMD released back then, but the point stands that people pay more for the best, and that's irrefutable. It's even outsold by worse value products like the 9700X because Intel has lost mindshare too, with all of their stability (I know it doesn't affect Arrow Lake) issues and lack of upgradeability. Also keep in mind you're looking at the 265K with an USA-centric POV, the rest of the world hasn't had price cuts like that, I'm sure some places did, but most didn't.

I want Intel to succeed, but their downfall is logical, expected and deserved.

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Prestigious-Celery83@reddit

they are not

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RedIndianRobin@reddit

Yes they are?

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Proglamer@reddit

Are you kidding? ~~Stockholm~~Intel Syndrome ftw! /s^2

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Gippy_@reddit

Good luck finding a 12900K now, they were snapped up like hotcakes. They were as low as $250 before the Raptor Lake drama.

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Nkrth@reddit

You don’t know what you are talking about. One google search and you will find them on Amazon and other websites for around $250

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Gippy_@reddit

LOL. Yes you can find a 12900K but at a price significantly higher than a 265KF. Man you can't even Amazon, blocked

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HobartTasmania@reddit

12900KS is still available in fairly large numbers in Australia albeit only from a few PC shops, for AUD $500 / USD $325.

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EmptyBrook@reddit

checks europes temps

85 degrees fahrenheit

confused where the heat wave is

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Jumpy_Cauliflower410@reddit

I think the heat wave was a week or two ago. It was 100F+ and who knows what humidity.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c70rrlexnwzo

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Strazdas1@reddit

85 is unusually hot for most of europe. But beside that, its actually hotter even here in what is normally a cooler portion.

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EmptyBrook@reddit

I’m looking at northern sweden which is normally cooler and its 85F. Most of europe is cooler than that currently though

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Strazdas1@reddit

85F at northern sweden is something thats so unexpected it will cause heat related deaths. I was thinking more sane areas like poland. But its also important to know where you are looking. For example yesterday the MSN weather service was showing numbers 6 degrees lower than what actually was outside. Today seems to be fine though at least where i live.

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DoctorPumpAndDump@reddit

Intel has always made rock solid CPUs. The crashing is likely a software problem with Firefox.

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anival024@reddit

record European heat wave

It's summer. It's in no way a "record". Further, plenty of places in the world, with more Intel CPUs, are regularly much hotter.

This is absurd.

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Pristine-Woodpecker@reddit

Which of those places has a) no airco in residential homes b) a substantial amount of people with high end Raptor Lake CPUs?

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lord_lableigh@reddit

The first point is not true for almost any western country. So the reason that its due to the heatwave is still absurd.

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marx2k@reddit

The first point is not true for almost any western country

So confidently wrong

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lord_lableigh@reddit

Uk yes but rest?

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marx2k@reddit

Europe generally does not use air conditioning

https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2022/08/europe-france-germany-air-conditioning-heat-wave-climate/

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TIYATA@reddit

The lack of air conditioning is definitely part of the reason why Europe is having more problems with this issue than other regions.

For Americans who aren't familiar with the situation in Europe:

https://www.ft.com/content/50f69324-8dc8-4ef1-b471-d78e260adae0

As a result, with heatwaves rapidly increasing in frequency around the world, the wide US-Europe disparity in air conditioning use is becoming reflected in a startlingly wide disparity in heat-related deaths. Between 2000 and 2019, an average of 83,000 western Europeans lost their lives every year as a result of extreme heat, compared with 20,000 North Americans.

Yet despite the rising human toll, air conditioning remains widely frowned upon in the UK and Europe, with consistent and concerted pushback from those who consider the technology an unnecessary extravagance — and one that does more harm than good.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/07/20/europe-uk-air-conditioning-ac/

Academics date the invention of air conditioning to the Florida Panhandle in the 1850s. Now, roughly 90 percent of U.S. homes have some form of air conditioning, according to U.S. Census data.

For decades in Europe, leaders and scholars scoffed at U.S. reliance on air conditioning as another example of American excess. In 1992, Cambridge economist Gwyn Prins warned that “physical addiction to air-conditioned air is the most pervasive and least noticed epidemic in modern America.”

Air-conditioned offices are commonplace in Europe, but it is exceedingly rare to find AC units in homes. According to one industry estimate, just 3 percent of homes in Germany and less than 5 percent of homes in France have air conditioning. In Britain, government estimates suggest that less than 5 percent of homes in England have AC units installed.

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Strazdas1@reddit

The thing is, in places mentioned here (germany, Britain) you would need AC like 3 weeks per year. Its very cost uncompetetive to install it and yes, it is seen as stupid exess. Not only that, but it is outright banned in many places in my town because it ruins the look of buildings.

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pmjm@reddit

It certainly affects humans and I have a lot of sympathy for anyone affected by it. But I have a hard time believing that CPUs designed for continuous loads of >95C are failing at a higher rate because it's 38C.

Yes, higher ambient temperatures mean slower heat dissipation from the CPU but the margin from ambient to critical temperatures is wide enough to drive a bus through.

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_teslaTrooper@reddit

You msised the intel 13th/14th gen scandal, these CPUs are faulty even in normal conditions, elevated temperatures just make the faults more common.

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pmjm@reddit

I get that, my point is that the difference between an ambient of 25C vs 35C is insignificant when we're talking about CPU temps (obviously it's VERY significant to humans and animals).

I don't doubt that Firefox is receiving more crash reports than before but blaming warmer weather doesn't seem plausible.

Here's one hypothesis: EU consumer protection laws lead to more proactive bios updates for the region and higher adoption of a newer, buggier microcode update. Is it true? Who knows, but it's as logically sound as a 10 degree delta that's still 70C below criticality.

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RealThanny@reddit

difference between an ambient of 25C vs 35C is insignificant when we're talking about CPU temps

No, it isn't. If a CPU cooler is operating at max capacity, an increase in ambient temperature of ~10C means an increase in CPU temperature of ~10C. That's how heat transfer works.

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pmjm@reddit

Right, and that just means the CPU will throttle earlier. It doesn't mean the CPU hits 110C.

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RealThanny@reddit

The CPU doesn't need to get that hot to trip the hardware bug that's affecting Raptor Lake.

The point is, higher CPU temperatures make the errors more likely to manifest, and higher ambient temperatures absolutely do cause higher CPU temperatures. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

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Pristine-Woodpecker@reddit

If the CPU would be stable in their throttled region, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

The use case is running Firefox, not gaming or rendering or whatever. The CPU spikes a on a few threads for few seconds to run all the JavaScript in the ads, and idles. The starting temperature of that burst is going to be very significant, and you may not run into the throttle temperature at all if the ambient is low enough.

[-]

_teslaTrooper@reddit

Days above 30C used to be rare, it just wasn't worth getting AC for a couple days in the year. Now over the last decade 35C+ temps have become normal summer weather, people's attitudes towards AC are just starting to catch up.

[-]

HorrorCranberry1165@reddit

Intel sales 70% PC, and most of it are Raptors, even now when ARL is available

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AranciataExcess@reddit

20C is a heatwave for euros smh

[-]

nanonan@reddit

There can still be a correlation. Hotter places know how to keep cool. My kneejerk reaction as an Aussie was similar dismissal, but it does seem plausible if you factor in cultural attitudes towards heat.

[-]

bobbie434343@reddit

This is the story HUB and GN have been waiting all their life. Burning Steves in flames thumbnails incoming!

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Strazdas1@reddit

This seems more like a 5 minute segment on podcast than a full video information.

[-]

mockingbird-@reddit (OP)

What new is there to investigate?

They already investigated the Vmin shift instability issue.

[-]

bobbie434343@reddit

Just pleasing their fanbase, taking shots at Intel, and breaking the bank with views.

[-]

reddanit@reddit

Eh, what's new to say about it? They could basically take their entire old script and just switch the dates to "current year", update which subsequent "final fix" to the issue Intel has released most recently and maybe add a little bit extra snark to it...

[-]

bobbie434343@reddit

I personally could listen to GN Steve unintelligble ramblings about Intel for hours at 0.5x speed all day long /s

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deleted_by_reddit@reddit

[removed]

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[-]

mockingbird-@reddit (OP)

Unless there is a significant development, I doubt there would be more than a brief mention if anything.

[-]

TerriersAreAdorable@reddit

Yeah, this might be a sarcastic quip in one of their periodic news roundups but there's not enough new here for a full video.

[-]

StokeLads@reddit

My 13th gen i9 provided by work is having a nightmare right now. About 6 months ago it started randomly overheating/crashing. That ramped up around may to once a week. Now it overheats once or twice a day. It's the most unstable machine I've ever owned, by far and I'm talking 30-40 machines over a 15 year dev career.

Intel should be fucking finished. Anyone with a brain should head to Mac or AMD.

[-]

Illustrious_Bank2005@reddit

A little questionable is that all RPL-equipped machines are rejecting crash reports... Raptor Lake isn't just the Raptor Lake-S with problems There are SKUs for laptops and Raptor Lake-S SKUs that don't cause problems. Without discriminating these, I refused by a big group called Raptor Lake… X86 has an instruction for individual identification called CPUID instruction. You can use this to find out which CPU you are using With CPUID, you can refuse to receive only crash reports sent from the Raptor Lake SKU with a problem. It's true that the crash report is annoying, and I understand that it's annoying...

It's not like I'm defending Intel…

Looking at his series of tweets, it seems that he didn't notice until he pointed out that there was a Raptor Lake SKU that had no problems.

[-]

Pristine-Woodpecker@reddit

From what I understand, they have bot that files crash reports if it detects a new crash, since presumably the crash is due to a code change/bug that was introduced.

But Raptor Lake crashes on random code, so the bot ends up filing bugs for every line of code.

They don't care about filtering supposedly working Raptor Lake, since unless those specific user are the only ones who would ever run that codepath, someone with other hardware is going to crash there too.

[-]

Illustrious_Bank2005@reddit

What is the meaning? This crash issue is said to be related to the 13/14 generation vminshift The original Mozilla person also said it was related to this issue. Of course, the SKU with that problem is due to hardware instability, and the reason for the crash is irregular. So if you filter the problematic SKU, I don't think random crashes will be reported each time to the bot each time.

[-]

Pristine-Woodpecker@reddit

Yes, and that's what they did. I'm explaining to you why they won't care at all if this filters some working SKU too.

[-]

Illustrious_Bank2005@reddit

No, it's not good to refuse crash reports from Raptor Lake-equipped machines. The crash report of those machines is profitable without any problems… It's just my personal opinion I think it's kind of strange to reject everything because there are problems with some models. I think it would be good to narrow it down just because there is a problem and pass other reports… You say "SKU in operation" Maybe you don't know the type of SKU that has the problem and the type of SKU that doesn't have any problems?

[-]

Illustrious_Bank2005@reddit

In the first place, he himself identified one of the SKUs(i7 14700k) that have a problem, but why ended up setting it to ignore crash reports from all Raptor Lake CPUs...

[-]

jaymz168@reddit

I'm so glad that I ditched my 13700k. That POS was an albatross from day one.

[-]

Encode_GR@reddit

Wow, now that is embarassing for Intel :O

[-]

Helpdesk_Guy@reddit

You don't have to worry, if you have no reputation to lose.

[-]

Glacia@reddit

Intel CPUs known for crashes do, in fact, crash!

[-]

Stennan@reddit

Intel CPUs are also known for heat/power draw, but I am surprised that it is causing certain applications to crash.

[-]

Blueberryburntpie@reddit

From what I've been reading, that's just an early warning of the Raptor Lake CPU approaching death.

[-]

Willyscoiote@reddit

Imagine getting a lot of warranties and refunds because of a CPU

[-]

Blueberryburntpie@reddit

Leather jacket man wasn’t going to have his excellent driver quality reputation tarnished by blue team.

[-]

Helpdesk_Guy@reddit

Yeah … Remember when the bad reputation Vista had (as being notoriously unstable), was in no small part due to Nvidia's horrendous driver-quality back then? Microsoft knew it through all the telemetry.

[-]

mockingbird-@reddit (OP)

They were likely already borderline unstable because of the Vmin shift instability issue and the heat pushed them over the edge.

[-]

Winter_Pepper7193@reddit

europe has been hot for a while, MAYBE the last intel bios, the one thats a month old, is faulty

that could be it too

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Winter_Pepper7193@reddit

Ive got a locked 13 gen i5 thats sitting right now at 28celsius with the original bios that came with the motherboard years ago (altho it has a tower cooler not the standard intel cooler), and, of all things, with firefox opened cause I happen to use firefox since 2005

btw, europe heat wave in the end of june was hardcore too, nothing special about july at all

What a lot of people did not catch is the very last bios from intel, the one thats 1 month old, might be faulty, thats basically what the guy in the article is saying and no one is mentioning in here

[-]

AntLive9218@reddit

I always found it amusing how the heat/power draw reputation spread because Intel is less efficient under load, but that matters most for servers when there's almost always a load.

For "home" usage, the not too great idle capabilities of AMD's chiplet setup makes the high idle power consumption quite significant, ironically quite likely increasing the average power consumption above Intel setups given enough uptime with no or light usage.

Overall AMD is the better value for most "regular" users currently, but there are good reasons why pretty much all modern low power x86 hosts have Intel CPUs.

[-]

reddanit@reddit

This is actually a separate issue. Specifically 13th/14th gen Intel CPUs suffer from pretty widespread degradation that eventually manifests itself as reduced stability.

Since temperature also affects CPU stability, it's outright expected that the CPUs on the verge on being unstable will be pushed past it into crashing by higher ambient temperatures.

Normal CPUs are stable throughout entire temperature operating range. Which they normally also never exceed because thermal throttling is designed to prevent that to begin with.

[-]

Tylerebowers@reddit

It is so sad to watch Intel’s fall.

[-]

Helpdesk_Guy@reddit

Intel has no-one to blame but themselves – It's not that Intel had it coming since decades, right?

[-]

pc0999@reddit

Many modern PC components are actually too hot to run in a hotter climate.

Even a recent MacBook Air can easier become almost too hot to touch in basic tasks during a milder heat wave.

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Nicholas-Steel@reddit

The numerous safety schemes should underlock the hardware in hot environments, even when running a CPU without a heatsink. It shouldn't be crashing.

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CalmSpinach2140@reddit

The Macbook Air does throttle under load. The casing stays below 45 degrees.

see below in the Temp section

https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-passively-cooled-M4-SoC-makes-the-competition-look-old-Apple-MacBook-Air-13-M4-base-model-review.1002534.0.html

[-]

Scrumdiddlies@reddit

My pc crash any time I try to boot up a new game :/ Intel is poopy hotdog water

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postrap@reddit

so glad i'm on alder lake lol. seems like the last good intel gen

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HobartTasmania@reddit

These CPU's if they overheat are supposed to thermally throttle so this shouldn't be an issue but apparently it is, no idea why they are crashing instead of just slowing down.

[-]

Fatal_Neurology@reddit

The whole issue with Raptor lakes is not them running at excessive CPU temps compared to what's typical for its class, it's that the hardware is failing to successfully operate at typical operating temperature due to being overturned in other ways besides outright running temperature and/or internal corrosion.

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HobartTasmania@reddit

The corrosion was a separate issue, but the main problem was that they were over-volting themselves and damaging the cores, the BIOS updates should have fixed that, but a lot of them got damaged before the updates could prevent that happening. It still doesn't really explain how a damaged core only goes haywire based on temperature, but I guess there could be some reason for that happening.

[-]

HorrorCranberry1165@reddit

FF developers find way to sfift blame to hardware

[-]

ValveFan6969@reddit

EU so dramatic per usual . "record heat wave" yet the heat wave in question is 30 degrees. Literally freezing temperature here in America.

[-]

Cory123125@reddit

Did... did you think that temperature was in fahrenheit?

[-]

zakats@reddit

Cool, I just bought a 14th gen CPU. Love this for me.

[-]

ipSyk@reddit

Serves you right if you buy a >200W CPU.

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ProfessionalPrincipa@reddit

Problems were reported with Raptor Lake T-series chips, the ones with a nominal 35 watt TDP.

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makistsa@reddit

Non k chips have very low return rates. If a t-series has a problem it's probably a random normal failure.

[-]

ProfessionalPrincipa@reddit

The saving grace that kept failure rates from the 50% seen on their K brethren is probably the fact the T's out of the box aren't pushed quite as close to the edge.

However, problematic 1x700T and 1x900T chips exhibited similar symptoms to their K counterparts and the same stabilization measures for already damaged K chips worked to stabilize T chips. They very likely suffered from the same problem.

[-]

Blueberryburntpie@reddit

Even sub-100W CPUs could destroy themselves as long as a single core pulls more than 65W at the original voltage settings.

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ChampionshipSalt1358@reddit

Lol but that isn't what happens is it? The >200w intel cpus are nuking themselves without someone purposefully setting single core turbo boost at the original voltage settings.

These Intel CPU's just require you to use them for this to happen. Zen 4 and 5 would require a person to both know enough to edit the settings in bios and not know enough to set these settings in a way that no tutorial or video would ever suggest.

For 13th and 14th gen intel all you have to do is use the damn thing.

[-]

slither378962@reddit

It's not because of wattage, it's because of voltage. You could get 1.6v+ even at idle, by what buildzoid saw, before the patches.

[-]

Inprobamur@reddit

Even the low power laptop chips are affected.

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RIPPWORTH@reddit

I’m a huge Raptor Lake enthusiast, and I find this absolutely hilarious. It really is crazy how unstable Raptor Lake is if you don’t know how to wrestle your parameters into stability.

I had a lot of issues with my tuned to the bone i9-14900KS, but the latest microcode update has worked wonders and I haven’t crashed in months.

[-]

Proglamer@reddit

if you don’t know how to wrestle your parameters into stability

Ah yes, the neurodivergent normality expected of intel customers!

[-]

AnimalShithouse@reddit

Let's not act like AMD and Nvidia have never subjected their customers to similar pain.

[-]

ChampionshipSalt1358@reddit

Let's not act like AMD and Nvidia have ever subjected their customers to similar pain. Name one time one of these companies released a product that was broken on release, and then blamed everybody and everything else except for themselves going on almost 2 years?

This is unique to Intel and I'm sick of this type of deflection.

[-]

VenditatioDelendaEst@reddit

Nvidia: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2008/09/nvidia-sued-over-notebook-gpu-failures/

AMD: RDNA1 """driver issues"""

[-]

ElSzymono@reddit

You might want to look into AMD Zen segfault bug then: https://forum.level1techs.com/t/ryzen-pre-week-25-fabrication-rma-issue/118658

AMD did not acknowledge the problem or did not recall affected CPUs.

[-]

Willyscoiote@reddit

The comments there state that it may only be the CPUs manufactured before week 16 that could have this issue. AMD wasn't hiding it or letting it happen for more than 2 years, and all CPUs were still under warranty, with AMD issuing an RMA

[-]

ElSzymono@reddit

No, every CPU manufactured before week 25 was affected. The issue was much more prevalent and easy to reproduce with a simple script:
https://github.com/suaefar/ryzen-test/blob/master/kill-ryzen.sh

All Raptor Lake CPUs are under warranty also. It was even extended to 5 years (including tray processors):
https://community.intel.com/t5/Mobile-and-Desktop-Processors/Additional-Warranty-Updates-on-Intel-Core-13th-14th-Gen-Desktop/m-p/1620853

[-]

greggm2000@reddit

Well, there’s the nvidia power connector fiasco, that’s been going on since the 4000-series launch, and we still have no indication that they’ll switch to something reliable that doesn’t sometimes melt, for the 6000-series in (presumably) late 2026.

[-]

reddanit@reddit

"Never" is a very strong word. There have been various failures of similar kind from many companies, but I struggle to see one that would be similarly large in scale. The closest and most comparable thing that I can recall is the FDIV bug, but that's literally also Intel and it happened more than quarter of a century ago.

[-]

Dasboogieman@reddit

This is absolutely hilarious as Intel was once known and renowned for the stability and predictability of their products. To the point one can argue they were too conservative with their chip binning and left too much performance on the table.

[-]

SirActionhaHAA@reddit

A product that requires tuning to work correctly is a broken product. For most people it ain't about the tuning, it's the permanently degraded cpus and not knowing that they are causing problems.

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Blueberryburntpie@reddit

Especially on a locked down OEM motherboard that applied dangerous default settings.

[-]

v1king3r@reddit

Intel design their chips at the thermal limit and make the heat dissipation as cheap as possible.

This is the result.

[-]

Inprobamur@reddit

Even their low power laptop chips are affected by the degradation, it just takes more time for them to start failing.

[-]

Limited_Distractions@reddit

Imagine what an insane outlier raptor lake must be in crash reports over the past few years and probably will be for the next decade

[-]

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