interviewing for Senior/Staff positions negotiating like this still relevant in today (global) market
Posted by Atixx@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 11 comments
One of the things I always recommend to anyone that is interviewing is to have a read on Patrick McKenzie's post. It was published in 2012, and it has helped me and several people I know to really lose some of the fear when talking about compensation.
After the job market surge and somewhat crash, now I consider it's somewhat normalized, but my question is does anyone feel this is still relevant as before, when the market was piping hot, and if you had any recent experience when negotiating that did not go as planned.
Although I'm looking for any perspective, I'm looking for global companies hiring in the EU market, the ones looking for exceptional talent and are willing to pay extra for it (Tier 3 companies in Pragmatic Engineers' model).
What are your thoughts?
salaryscript@reddit
Negotiation coach here that specializes in big tech. Always always negotiate. My advice is that you should figure out the market salary range on levels.fyi or glassdoor for your position then use salaryscript to help with negotiation. Negotiation is a skill. It's delicate so you have to know how to word it such that the recruiter would still be willing to move the salary without completely rescind the offer.
EmbarrassedSeason420@reddit
Try negotiating in the US market in 2025!
Negotiation works when you have alternatives
Which means other offers
Which means the job market does not UTTERLY suck
In the US in 2025 if you get an offer you say "I do" !
codefyre@reddit
No, that is terrible advice. Even if the employer is unwilling to negotiate, no company that you actually want to work for is going to penalize you for trying. The literal worst-case scenario is that the hiring manager looks at you and says, "I'm sorry, but the pay rate for this position is non-negotiable." No harm, just no extra money.
There is never a downside to trying to negotiate your salary, and a massive potential downside to not trying to negotiate. Just make sure you've read up on salary negotiation and know how to do it professionally, reasonably, and effectively.
EmbarrassedSeason420@reddit
Have you been unemployed and searching for a job in the past 2 years.
I have and know how bad the market is.
There are many qualified candidates, all competing for the same jobs.
Trying to negotiate could make the company rescind you offer and got to the next candidate in line.
codefyre@reddit
No. I work on the other side of the desk. And that's not how it works. When people get offers rescinded during negotiations, it's nearly always because they did something dumb while trying or refused to take no for an answer. Basically, trying to cannonball it without any idea what they were doing.
The last offer rescission I saw, which was just last month, happened because a new grad was offered $125k and bennies, but no stock. He countered asking for $300k and options. That immediately told us that really didn't know what he was doing. Still, we did come back with $130k and a small option package.
He responded by calling the offer "insulting" and said he'd go as low as $250k. So we pulled the offer. I don't know where he was getting his advice, but he was a terrible negotiator.
No reputable company is going to pull an offer just because you wanted to negotiate. They might say no, but they aren't going to torpedo the work they put into choosing you as the final candidate simply because you asked a question. Do note my use of the word "reputable". Are there companies that WILL yank the offer? Sure. You absolutely do not want to work for those companies anyway. Those tend to be the same companies that demand you work overtime and on call without compensation, or that you give up on any hope of WLB because "we're a team". Don't work for those people. You will very quickly wish that you were still unemployed.
poipoipoi_2016@reddit
And then you quit 2 months later when the next offer rolls in for 50% more money after negotiating it up 10%.
/Jaysus.
lordnacho666@reddit
It's a great essay with advice for the ages, not just for when the market is hot.
I can't remember all of it, but I think he might touch upon one of the non-financial reasons why you need to negotiate hard. The reason is that the negotiation itself changes the relationship expectations going forward.
Here's an anecdote from a friend. He started a business that sells a SaaS product for influencers. Being a SaaS product, he could charge widely different prices for the same thing. Some people would pay a few hundred, others would pay tens of thousands a month. Which customers do you suppose caused the most problems, asked the most questions, and requested the most changes?
That's right, the little guys who were paying next to nothing. The big ticket customers just paid their bills, and never said anything.
If you don't charge a huge amount for your services, people will treat you differently. They think they can tell you what to do, when to do it, and that you'll be happy to take their "advice". People who are paying you a large sum are deferential. They think you are an authority, and they let you do what you want.
DigmonsDrill@reddit
I've shared the story before but I was at a start-up and the biggest support hassle was someone who had gotten a free copy. She gave it to one of her students who nagged us with questions like "why does your program require a parallel port, my VM doesn't have a parallel port"
xD3I@reddit
The article is from 2012, the people that read the article back then are now the ones hiring the people that will hire you so they know the tricks, just go in, prove you are the best and if not convince them you are the best "value"
Weekly-Fortune2611@reddit
Human psychology has not changed since 2012 .
potatolicious@reddit
It's definitely a classic post, and an absolute trove of good advice, though I would argue a few points in addition/instead of that seem relevant to most people:
A lot of the advice in the post is targeted at extremely advanced-career folks (i.e., industry-wide reputation, so well-known that their initial contacts at companies are likely execs and not line-level recruiters or even hiring managers)... which just doesn't describe most people. Even Staff/Principal levels at very large companies now generally don't engage candidates at that level. This advice however is still absolutely gold if you're interviewing at smaller companies where the person you're talking to has drastically more authority, and the company sees strategic importance in the role to an extent that they're willing to contemplate the value of the hire specifically.
The post is frustratingly absent on the notion of BATNA. If you aren't an industry-famous person being directly courted by executive recruiters, your best bet is to negotiate via BATNA. Which in 95% of cases just means "have competing offers".
His post touches on this but doesn't really dig in, but 99% of the negotiation happens before either side walks into the room. On the candidate's side the best thing to do is structure the whole situation in a way where the option to walk away from the table is real (rather than an empty posture). Creating suitable alternatives to this deal is the best way to improve this deal.
This requires a lot of legwork. Most commonly it requires you to be diligent in managing the state of multiple conversations such that the decisions-to-hire all drop around the same time, giving you maximum negotiation leverage.
The best way to do this IMO is one of two ways:
Be at a T3 company with an excellent comp package. In that case when you're negotiating the BATNA is "I stay where I am", and the counterparty perceives that to be a compelling position for you.
Have multiple T3 offers land at the same time and negotiate them against each other.