No but it's a general warning about dismissing traditions too fast as antiquated gimmicks when sometimes we have to realize the people before us weren't absolute complete retards.
Just to inform you, this is referred to as Chesterton's fence. Essentially, it tells us to ask the same question you're asking, "what is the purpose of this tradition?" before reforming it. In the case of monogamy, there's plenty of evidence that shows children are more successful in general when raised by the typical nuclear family with loving parents. However, we can see that a harem of concubines or owning slaves is dehumanizing, therefore, any "benefits" gained from it are unethical.
If we're talking about evidence and ethics, then it isn't really about "tradition" anymore is it? Sure it's worth asking why some traditions began and continued, but they arent static across time and place, otherwise we'd never come up with new ones. If you want to talk about them as 'problem solvers,' well, you generally start by defining the problem and considering the solutions rather than the other way around.
You're also conflating monogamy with "the typical nuclear family with loving parents," which is much more contemporary. 'Traditionally' marriage was more transactional and children were meant more for labor, but culture and material conditions have changed such that this now seems dehumanizing as well.
You're right about the problem solving aspect, but the point of Chesterton's Fence is that people often don't consider what the tradition is a solution to in the first place before rejecting it. There may be other valid solutions, but recklessly rejecting tradition can lead to problems returning without a solution in place for it.
Even monogamous traditional (as in truly traditional or transactional) families provide stability. Also, maybe I'm just an optimist and not a cynic, but my understanding and interpretation is that a large number of those transactional relationships would also fit our typical loving family, especially when those transactional ones were less common in the lower classes of society. Also, I can tell you that most parents do feel strong emotional connections to their children and don't just see them as labor and there's no way that's just a modern trend. The labor benefits come later; many, many years later.
I think we can agree that parents being invested in their children's well being is good, but if that's the 'problem' that monogamy 'solves,' then that seems like a bit of a myopic way to look at it. We also used to have a lot more extended family and community involvement in raising children- why did we go from that to the 'nuclear family' model? Was there some pressing problem that this solved, or could it be more a response to material conditions and cultural emphasis on individualism?
Or the value in monogamy is in providing the most loving and stable lives for children, what does tradition make of the people who cant or dont want to have children? Are divorced but amicable parents not preferable to ones that hate each other but refuse to separate?
Traditions like locking up all the mentally ill and homeless in asylums. Bleeding heart liberals let them out and shut those places down. Look at the streets of America now.
You don’t understand it is necessary that you abide by provenly ineffective shit debunked by modern science because my old illiterate great grandmother used to cure diarrhoea by praying to God and sniffing powdered lemon zest
To be a progressive, you have to first believe you are a better person than every one of your ancestors. And then believe you are better than anyone who questions your plans.
Take the 1900 harvard entrance exam and let me know how much smarter harvard students are today.
https://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/education/harvardexam.pdf
That's the exam for top-percentile high schoolers (going to Harvard)
Modern top-percentile high schoolers are solving questions like these [https://artofproblemsolving.com/wiki/index.php/2025\_AIME\_I\_Problems](https://artofproblemsolving.com/wiki/index.php/2025_AIME_I_Problems) which are much more difficult
You do realize this only shows the difference between the standards of Harvard between then and now? And absolutely nothing, and I truly mean nothing, about the intellect of the average person then versus the intellect of the average person now.
[College in general as dropped over 10 IQ points just since the 1970s.](https://i.imgur.com/3NDVxDn.jpeg) If you think the average person is smarter today than a hundred years ago, you are wrong, but go ahead and demonstrate that.
Again, this is showing the standards for college, not the general population. The number of college attendees has grown significantly in that time. Are you really too stupid to understand that? Google Flynn effect. You're an idiot.
* No elbows on the table
* Threaten to beat our sons if they start to cry
* Lie about holiday spirits that give kids free stuff the parents actually pay for
* Commentate on people sneezing
* Give the church 10% of your income
Truly, all essential life skills we've forgotten the deeper value of😫
It's a holdover from medieval times when tables weren't fixed to their legs. There were basically a big board put on top of a tall bench. So if you put your elbows on the table, you would push down the table and cause it to fall over and all the food would fall on the floor. Then everyone would hate you for ruining all the food.
Not really life saving, but there were some studies on “silly rules” that discovered that they may serve a purpose in regularly “training” people in how to properly speak up and shame others, so that when someone breaks the rules and it’s actually wrong, everyone is prepared to properly shame them. Of course, it focused on tribes rather than modern society, so things might work out a little different now.
Could be a scorpion hiding underneath the raised edge of a dish. Elbows down, scorpion gets you. Elbows up, and you can quickly react to counter-melee the scorpion.
Shared propriety and decorum, which aids in social cohesion. At the very least it aids in maintaining norms in your social strata and helps distinguish it from lower castes. Significantly less important in our post-industrial era, but aids in K-selected castes.
*sailors did that to keep their bowls from sliding around, and wealthy families would align cutlery to the left and right of the plate where your elbows would sit, parents want their families to emulate wealth and not dirty sailors.
*Pussy 🥷s don't get bitches
*Keeps kid from asking for more presents from the parents because what Santa gives is what you get.
*Tradition started because frequent sneezing was an early indicator of pneumonic (no I don't mean bubonic) plague and the other person was praying that it wasn't
* Sometimes necessary to help keep small local churches from shutting down due to financial strain which does happen frequently, obviously no longer necessary once the church gets big enough but the church isn't going to say no to their parishioners still wanting to give them money.
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> this is exactly what conservatives do to functioning government programs
They aren't functional, they are 40 trillion dollars in debt.
Bill Clinton cut 250,000 federal jobs in 1993 back when the government was nearly as bloated as today (and it passed 391-17 in the House and 99-1 in the Senate.) Let me guess, Clinton was a conservative.
Federal programs are the most dysfunctional organization of people you can assemble, they are nearly all unconstitutional to begin with.
We're in national debt because republicans are terrible fucking leaders. The debt was set to be destroyed by like 2018 but nooooooo...
Also the debt literally didnt fucking matter because every country on the planet used the United States dollar but once again, republicans! "So what if we are the biggest trade economy on the planet? Deficit is a bad thing i think, so i will destroy the stand of the YS with every single ally we have on the planet."
"Except Isreal of course. They were promised the ability to line my pockets directly 3000 years ago."
> They aren't functional, they are 40 trillion dollars in debt.
And who is that money owed to?
Government has two options.
1. Print more money, which increased "national debt". This slightly decreases the value of existing money by causing inflation. They use this money to pay for government services. Functionally a tax.
2. Have a balanced budget, which is funded by taxes.
Both are essentially the same thing. A way to extract monetary value from general population to pay for government services like a military, or education, or healthcare, or scientific research. So who pays them? With the second option, it is paid by American citizens and American corporations. With the first option, it is "paid" by people that hold USD. So who holds them? US Citizens of course, but also foreign governments.
#2 is a way to spread the tax burden to MORE people that just US Citizens. To stop that and still maintain the same service would mean you paying more taxes.
Get a load of this guy. Probably thinks having a debt at all is a bad thing.
Yes, Clinton was a Third Way Democrat. He was successful because he did a lot of shit that Republicans wanted. Cutting the government and being tough on crime are both (idiotic and short-sighted) conservative positions.
It's on full display regarding FEMA and Texas floods. Fire a bunch of FEMA employees, modify/break standard processes of how the dept functions, efficiency in its function decreases significantly, then publicly blame the government itself is inefficient and should do away with FEMA.
Ok, when FEMA fucked up Hurricane Sandy... was the Obama's fault? FEMA is just another fucked up federal bureaucracy paying tens of thousands of people to jerk off all day.
FEMA builds levees, fixes bridges, digs drainage systems, trains municipal leaders, retrofits aging buildings, builds homes, elevates homes in floodplains, manages millions in grants to give people food and housing and transport assistance for the weeks and months after their communities are destroyed... should I go on?
"1000 people die in landslide during storm that could have been predicted and avoided if our agencies weren't being defunded and destroyed."
"1 billion dollars to isreal!"
There's literally so much money being burned on stupid stuff like foreign wars and lining the pockets of Soros and Zuckerberg. Imagine if that money went into fixing potholes...
"Damn, my house is on fire but it costs 6000$ for a single fire truck to come and help me. Guess I'm fucked since my insurance will partially cover fire damage, but won't touch fire engine expenses."
I'm glad you picked up the goalpost you set. Obama also supported the states affected by Sandy. Sadly, I'm old enough to remember that they then crucified Chris Christie at the time for taking a photo and aid from him. Again, Republicans don't want to help in natural disasters. They'd rather pray because that's free.
A lot of the govt is probably due for a shake-up tbh. If it means destroying to rebuild (hopefully better), then so be it.
Bureaucracies in general should be torn down every few generations: They start off well, solving immediate problems, but soon they struggle to make micro solutions fit with the existing codexes. Very soon, nothing can be solved because the historical debt is too high to be moved at all.
You try to solve X, but the rest of the alphabet comes running at you because it would disturb their balance in any way. You can't eternally add new floors to the same foundations, no matter how well they are built, and the foundations never really get changed. You mostly get cosmetic updates here and there.
I'm not saying Trump should be the one spearheading this (he doesn't strike me as a particularly careful or visionary politician), but if he does the destroying part, we can hope a true visionary can rebuild after him, without getting the blame for destroying.
Anything that gives extra work to future politicians is good in the long run. When they get too comfy on top, they lose the drive to improve.
nice moving of the goalpost bro, but when your mo is to take a working thing, break it to the point it's failing, then use that failure as an argument for getting rid of the thing without proposing anything palpable in return, you're not "shaking up" or "destroying to rebuild", you're just an idiot
The replacement is privatized services that are many times more expensive while being tremendously inferior and somehow less accountable. But good news op can probably get in on the ground floor and as long as he can keep pesky regulations at bay, such public private services can be extremely profitable, especially if they are deemed necessary...
I saw somebody genuinely say privatizing the police would be a good idea to help with police brutality a few days ago since they'd be "beholden to share holders"
Trust redditards to always reduce any and all political discussions down to "but whadabau trump!!1!"
How small is your IQ that you can't differentiate between actual conservatism and american republicanism? Or are you just so dishonest that you must construct that strawman immediately or else your entire worldview crumbles before you?
I don't care about trump and the american republicans. I don't support them either.
If anything, reddit discourse is one of the biggest supporter of trump because it pushes literally **everyone** except extremist liberals to the right.
Take this thread for example. The mere mention of tradition and suddenly redditards crawl out of the woodworks and start screaming about trump, epstein, american healthcare, and all the other tired old talking points that have barely any relevance to the current discussion. Why, you ask? Because they all know that traditional views do in fact have value and relevance in modern society. But in their heads, agreeing with anything remotely conservative equals trump support and so they must lie and twist the discussion their way.
But what's extra funny is that in the real world (and not reddit fantasy land) it's actually the liberals who have started to have more and more conservative views on things. Even the more extremist libs have started getting more and more anti-immigration as of late. They have started to notice that modern movies use inclusivity as a weapon to manipulate liberals into watching their garbage movies with poor animation. Irl men have started to realize that modern women have completely abused the modern feminism movement and that the dating scene is indeed grim. Hell, they've even gotten more hawkish on war, lmao.
There's your traditional values for you. Read it and weep.
Or you can be an ignorant numpty and scream "trump bad so everyone who disagrees with my worldview must be a naht-zhee!!1!"
trump isn't a conservative now? thanks for proving how you people have to twist the truth. I was starting to worry that reddditards might actually start telling the truth for once and make me look foolish. I guess I was just foolish in thinking that that is a possibility.
All the comments are obviously about american liberal vs conservative ideologies so trump is always implied, as he is the clear leader of the american conservatices. You are either being pedantic, disingenuous, and/or just plain stupid if you think otherwise. Not to mention that one of the comment chains is actually just directly about trump so you're just flat out incorrect.
I have productive discussions with moderate liberal friends all the time and it is always eye opening to see the raw insanity of redditors. But seriously tho, you thinking that trump isn't a conservative is particularly unhinged even for reddit standards.
Trump is a conservative sure, I’m just saying that OP was talking about conservatives in general, not just trump. Other comment chains being explicitly about trump doesn’t mean this one is. Idk about OP but I personally am not American and the conservatives here do the exact same shit of crying socialism whenever the government does any kind of welfare program.
And once again, trump is the leader of the conservative party. What world do you live in where the leader isn't included when making blanket statements about a group? And even if it isn't even america specific, it's obvious that american conservatives are the most representative conservative party in the world and in fact, a lot of conservative parties in the world are actually modeling themselves off of the american one.
A thread full of trump references and I am support to interpret a comment about conservatives as having absolutely nothing to do with trump or the american conservative party? Quit it with the excuses and the "ummm, aksualy"s. It just serves to make you even more dishonest.
Not to mention that my point of not being able to differentiate between the ideology and the party went way over your head.
Real talk, are you genuinely stupid? Did tiktok brainrot erase what the word "implied" means in your brain?
Whole thread is just discussions about trump and the chain started with a direct mention of the conservatives.
Given your word choice, this seems to be very much a zoomer literacy moment on your part.
> "Trust redditards to always reduce any and all political discussions down to "but whadabau trump!!1!"
Proceeds to talk about Trump in the only fucking thread where he wasnt mentioned. You have to have a keen eye in doing stupid shit like this, you seem a natural.
>dumbass doesn't know what a thread is
you're dishonest and an idiot. plain and simple.
post doesn't mention conservatives and yet you don't bat an eyelash when conservatives are immediately mentioned. then you squeal and squawk that "conservative" and "trump" have absolutely nothing in common.
just projection and lies with you. classic redditard behavior, lmao.
Yeah who would have thought that a premise used for the "progressives" in the meme would then be used against "conservatives", i'm _shocked_ i'll tell you.
But is hella funny how i have seen "Trump" like in other four threads (i don't know another word i'm not English) and you raged just in the one Trump wasnt mentioned and you began tellling on yourself in the very fucking first sentence like "uhhh fucking progressives always talking about Trump"
I’m British, the tories are called the conservatives and they do the same, in Canada they are called the conservatives and they do the same. Not everything about conservatives is just about trump
There's really no need to be vulgar. I did not need to know that you were bri*tish. That is just repulsive and unnecessary to mention. Ever.
And if you went on a thread where everyone is talking about trump and making american conservative references, happened upon a chain that started with talking about conservatives, and then your so called "brain" went straight to br*tain and canada, then all I have to say is that your brainrot runs deep indeed.
Why not use the opportunity to have a thread that isn’t about trump then instead of bringing him up where no one else has. You are the one bringing up trump everywhere
Saying he's not the only conservative is dumb when he is literally the most representative conservative on the planet right now. at least in terms of political parties.
You're losing the plot.
Answer this question, then. did the commenter not imply trump at all? Is being anti-socialist totally not something that trump would do at all?
Could they have been implying trump? Sure. But it could well have been any other conservative politician, or just a general sentiment. You were the one getting mad that they brought trump into it, when they did not explicitly do that.
My uncle got vaxxed and lost his foot afterwards. The retard doctor kept blaming it because of his high sugar blood level but that is BS, he was just trying to twist the blame on my uncle's lifestyle decision than own up to the fact the hospital gave lethal COVID vaccination.
He is looking for a lawyer now, I think he has a good case
He was joking, but you do raise a good point. At what rate does it become unethical to tell a population to get a drug? Obviously with virtually any treatment you will have a small population that has an allergic reaction, often fatal. So where’s the line? 1/100,000? 1/10,000? And does the line change based on the severity of the thing the drug is treating?
I think hes talking specifically about covid19 vaccines, with which id agree.
Vaccines in general are a good thing and yes youd be stupid to distrust or not take them. But the orthodox way of patenting a vaccine and putting it on the market requires years if not dozens of years to test in a lab, to properly refine the content and the dosage.
What happened to specifically vaccines like the Pfizer one is that they rushed that shit to comercial status, did not AT ALL announced the life changing possible dangerous side effects like myocarditis, and is not even a vaccine, its a damn RNA treatment.
The worst of all this is that if you slightly questioned it, youd not only be labeled as a lunatic right wing redneck conspiracy theorist bozo nazi, youd also lose access to most if not all public services, and in most cases, lost your fucking job and livelihood amidst a time of global crisis.
But having nuance in this topic is impossible because science is the newest religion. "Believe science" is a phrase nowadays, for fucks sake. And i bet you didnt read this far without labeling me too so you can go fuck yourself
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True, for *real* vaccines. However, the widely varying Covid "vaccines" were not only *not* real vaccines, because they didn't do what real vaccines do, but they also contained lots of conjectural ingredients that did and do bad, sometimes lethal, side effects for some of those who were injected with them.
And all of it was rushed, pushed through the system with minimal testing and evaluation. It wasn't just bad science and medical quackery, but it was *evil* science designed to hurt people.
Its goals were anti-human. Eugenics for the elderly, permanent birth control for the fertile, and the culling of undesirable minorities. As far fetched as it sounds, there are advocates for these things in some academic settings, colleges and universities. They thrive in the shadows.
A great example is the late, lauded [Dr. Eric R. Pianka](https://reason.com/2006/04/03/to-save-the-planet-kill-90-per/). People like him enthusiastically support "gain of function" research on pathogens, and they do so in front of fellow academics who support these ideas.
[Japan Confirms Covid ‘Vaccines’ Have Now Killed Over 600,000 Citizens](https://slaynews.com/news/japan-confirms-covid-vaccines-now-killed-over-600000-citizens/)
It's not that the concept of vaccination is unsound you actual retard, it's that poor product control + unsafe secondary ingredients in modern vaccines produce an unacceptable level of negative side effects, studies of which are then suppressed by a media that's been functionally purchased by pharma corps. Stop taking claims at face value from an industry that's paid the largest corporate fines in history for misleading customers.
Your anecdote vs hundreds of millions of successful vaccine recipients that are immune to diseases they have been vaccinated against
>are immune to diseases they have been vaccinated against
You know there was recently a "vaccine" that didn't make you immune.
Technically, no vaccine makes you 'immune'. It just gives your body a better fighting chance. And they are typically only good for like a decade.
Its why you have to get re-vaxxed for certain things. A lot of vaccines you dont re up on because they aren't as big as threat once you are over 15, until you are like 70. Tetnis shots are only good for a decade. Same with Hep. And you change to shingles vax in old age.
Covid "vaccine" isn't even arguable, it hardly does anything. Putting it the same category as actual tested, effective vaccines. Is only pushing people into distrusting all of them.
Holy fuck this is hilarious
Your uncles foot fucking ulcerated from his lack of care about this diabetes and this is your takeaway? Do you know how long you have to be fucking around to get foot ulcers to the point of amputation? And you are in full seriousness blaming this on the vaccine?
It is actually a shame modern society holds back natural selection because we have so many specimens like you allowed to reproduce. At the very least you dumb motherfuckers voted out your own medicaid so now the government wont help you anymore, so you could argue you guys are trying to vote natural selection back in.
*obvious joke*
To who? There are literally people who believe this and shout it from the rooftops
I wouldn't be surprised if memes like this convinced some burnt out loser that it's THE JAB that caused them to be regarded, ignoring the fact they were regarded long before COVID.
I found out long ago, people struggle with sarcasm. They just don't have the mental faculties to play out the exaggerated hypothetical scenario others might kabuki play in front of them.
Vaccines? Vaccines?? Lol you guys not following the current conservatosphere. They conquered being against vaccines, they know promote anti pasteurization! Drinking raw milk!
As a medical student, I honestly start to think american conservative movement controlled by foreign agents. Because this is the easiest way to destroy a nation biologically.
Stupids will fill the hospitals with salmonella, brucella and stomach tuberculosis infections! And since they already don't believe doctors unlike 3rd world country people who get these diseases by actual unsanitation, things will go shit so much harder.
No hate but holy hell I wish I could say some things about vaccines, especially covids, considering my parents literally were in charge of developing and synthesizing vaccines without getting into hot water irl. Maybe American ones are different? Not even upset just concerned :(
There’s nothing wrong with drinking raw milk from a healthy, pasture raised cow. Especially with modern amnesties like fridges which prevent spoilage and increase shelf life, you’d have to be very regarded about food safety to get poisoned from it. Calves drink it, barn cats who catch mice drink it, most ruralites who grow up in a farm even drink it… but when some city slicker wants to suddenly it’s bad and salmonella and E. coli…
The dangers aren't from drinking raw from the farm. It's from the transport. Vast majority of people live in an urban environment, which means they buy milk that was collected somewhere else, probably far away, transported, processed, stored, transported again then sold. All this gives a lot of risk for bacteria to grow and become an food born illness. Pasteurized milk helps lower this risk by heating the milk up enough to kill said bacteria before it can grow during all the steps mentioned above. It's like tap water. "Why does government treat it when I've drank from waterfalls into be mountains and I was fine?" Cause from the time the water gets from the glacier in the Rockies to your local reservoir its probably picked up some harmful bacteria and the government has a legitimate interest in not letting a bunch of people get sick.
If you think the argument is against raw milk as in "straight from the cow" then you're misreading basically everything on the topic.
As someone who used to be conservative and now have no idea what that label means, yeah, I think both the left and the right are captured by propaganda, but especially the right.
You might get this impression depending on where you live but, in most first world counties, the majority of people is educated to an above average level.
And don't come at me with "but there's a lot of people in underdeveloped countries bringing the average down" I'm aware, i just don't care as in don't count them to be part of the civilised world.
they didn't say that the average person is above average, they said most people are above average. This is possible.
Take a set of values 1, 1000, 1001, 1002, 1003, 1004.
The average here is roughly 835 which the majority (5 out of 6) are above.
Yup. Third world country bud, sorry.
Being good at capitalism and having disproportionately rich people aren't the only requirements to join the club, you're like india with a weirder government.
...You do know what the time first world, second world, and third world actually mean, right?
First world is aligned with NATO, i.e the US. It is impossible for the US not to be a first world country lmao
Second world is aligned with the Soviet Union, so essentially the eastern block and some others.
Third world is unaffiliated; countries no one cares enough about to make them pick a side because they're too busy fighting each other over who has the best mud hut or whatever.
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I see now that my hypocrisy lies in considering the average intellect to be the actual average, including less educated countries, yet also claiming not to recognise them as part of civilised society.
So yes, i think I'm of above average intelligence in comparison to the entire planet, i don't think I'm of above average intelligence if we're just counting developed countries. Although, due to confirmation bias and the fact that i work in trades, i forget to feel that way quite often.
Lmao get pedantic hell yeah. You know full well what i mean.
Intelligence isn't actually location based so why the fuck would it be that?
Intellect is actually a product of your surroundings so that could be it to be honest.
Education, on the other hand, is the exact thing we've been talking about here so of fucking course it's that.
You could also argue that intelligence and intellect can be taught with good education, making your comment even more pointless
How is my comment pointless if you yourself differentiated between the three?
Anyway I'm just fucking with you to show you that you're probably not as above average as you believe.
if you consider a high school level to be educated, sure. And technically high school level biology is enough to understand vaccines. However a lot of people either slogged through high school without understanding half of it, or simply didn't get their knowledge reinforced over time so ten years down the line they believe vaccines cause autism.
Stick newborns with hepatitis B vaccine as soon as they are born. Hepatitis B is only transmitted via sexual intercourse and/or dirty needles. The heptitis B vaccine has heavy metals added into it and the CDC just came out with a report that says the shot gives a 1153% increase in autism.
"BuT MaH VaCcInEs"
Study was conducted before Kennedy took office, and suppressed. Kennedy just release the results (Which btw were readily available as early as 2021).
Your move, bundle of sticks.
Then why every single case against him has been dropped, or won on appeal?
Why is it that Trump's agenda betters the US instead of just continue destroying it like biden did? Didn't biden have alphabet people/pretend women flashing fake boobs in the lawn of the White House while you call his presidency "common sense"?
Seethe harder, communist.
Trump: Lowest gas prices in 5 years, unemployment lowest in decades, 15 trillion in investments from outside of the US, No tax on overtime, ICE cleaning up and enforcing the LAW.
biden:
over 11 million illegals (https://homeland.house.gov/2024/10/24/startling-stats-factsheet-fiscal-year-2024-ends-with-nearly-3-million-inadmissible-encounters-10-8-million-total-encounters-since-fy2021/),
inflation peaked at a 40-year high of 9.1% in June 2022. (https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2022/consumer-prices-up-9-1-percent-over-the-year-ended-june-2022-largest-increase-in-40-years.htm)
And that is just naming a few. biden was a disaster and made America worst. End of story.
ICE easily is one of the most controversial , Trump has easily not only had some of the worst campaign promises to run on, especially the Epstein files, which he quite literally ran on, only to back out of it.
Also, I’m not sure why gas prices are considered, mainly because the global economy was in a pandemic, making ALL prices higher. Some of which are still at extreme highs, which Trump promised also to make at all time lows.
Again inflation peaking near PANDEMIC TIMES is expected, which fell drastically after that time period.
Also where are you getting these facts that Trump had the lowest unemployment?
According to Econfact, as well as the US department of commerce stating that the period during 21-24, had the highest record of unemployment, as well as the highest streak of sub 4% unemployment in recent memory since the 60s.
Investopedia records a 3.5% unemployment rate, even lower than the “Goldilocks” economy listed under Trump, which was 3.6%, and mainly a factor from the legislation of the previous administration.
The US Bureau of Labor statistics list unemployment at 4.1% currently, which is higher than what Biden left office with.
The stock market was the worst since Nixon when Trump took office.
And he campaigned on ending the wars, which he has still FAILED.
Honestly, did you at least bother to fact check your claims other than the last two? You’re just flat out wrong.
> ICE easily is one of the most controversial , Trump has easily not only had some of the worst campaign promises to run on, especially the Epstein files, which he quite literally ran on, only to back out of it.
Still the majority voted for him to do just that. You are just the loud minority. Also the Supreme Court just keep giving Trump a win after win because? Trump is following the LAW AS IT IS WRITTEN. Cope harder, communist.
> Also, I’m not sure why gas prices are considered, mainly because the global economy was in a pandemic, making ALL prices higher. Some of which are still at extreme highs, which Trump promised also to make at all time lows.
Trump was president when the pandemic started, did your brain forgot that? 5 years ago was DURING Trump's first term and the gas was the lowest I've seen in YEARS. **(Yet another point you fail on, spectacularly).**
> Again inflation peaking near PANDEMIC TIMES is expected, which fell drastically after that time period.
Check response above. Trump was President during the start of the pandemic AND inflation didn't run rampant like with your Manchurian, comatose leader biden.
> Also where are you getting these facts that Trump had the lowest unemployment? According to Econfact, as well as the US department of commerce stating that the period during 21-24, had the highest record of unemployment, as well as the highest streak of sub 4% unemployment in recent memory since the 60s.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/2025/07/june-boom-jobs-report-shows-the-economy-continues-to-soar-under-president-trump/ suck on this fact. Also biden: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm **biden manufactured 800,000 jobs from thin air not to look incompetent. Third rectal destruction to you, bucko**
> Investopedia records a 3.5% unemployment rate, even lower than the “Goldilocks” economy listed under Trump, which was 3.6%, and mainly a factor from the legislation of the previous administration.
You still mad Trump won and the Country is going in the right direction.
> The US Bureau of Labor statistics list unemployment at 4.1% currently, which is higher than what Biden left office with.
https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-unemployment-rate.htm percentage of a point. It's not the flex you think it is...
> The stock market was the worst since Nixon when Trump took office. **Because he inherited it from biden. Hence "when Trump took office". And since Trump took office, where is the stock market now? Fourth down, zero yards for you**
> And he campaigned on ending the wars, which he has still FAILED.
How many service members dies under Trump? Zero. Under biden? https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/getting-answers-on-afghanistan-withdrawal/ biden destroyed our credibility overseas, making easy pickings for our enemies. Also the open border brought Chinese, Russian, Talibans, etc. Your defacto socialist warn body destroyed the Country.
> Honestly, did you at least bother to fact check your claims other than the last two? You’re just flat out wrong.
It looks like the bundle of sticks that forgot to check is you.
**TL;DR Cope harder, communist**
Unemployment literally soared at the end of his term due to the pandemic ON YOUR OWN SOURCES, and GAS WAS QUITE LITERALLY SOARING DURING THE TUME BEFORE HIS TERM. Inflation also started to take a sharp rise during the end of his term.
The inflation is not gonna be at its peak since the pandemic if you are hopefully aware, was nowhere NEAR over.
Whining about a sitting president creating jobs, which is quite literally what happens yes. And again unemployment is higher than Biden’s term post pandemic.
Also, the stock market situation was nowhere near as volatile. The stock market falling drastically was quite literally due to his announcement of tariffs. Cant exactly inherit something mainly caused by your policies. The debacle happened months after he became president, not sure how that’s Biden’s fault but alright.
One thing you miraculously got right was that Biden had a bad withdrawal and wasn’t the best at it. In the same vein, I’ve never seen Biden threaten to withdraw money away from Ukraine because of not getting what he wanted.
What about the Epstein List? He campaigned off that, and covered it up like the rest. You trust a man that can’t keep his promises or a straight coherent narrative.
Hell, he can’t go a few meetings without falling asleep on the job. In that regard, Trump and Biden might be the same.
tl;dr. Go touch grass socialist. You posted not a single source from your marxist rant.
This is exactly why Trump won. Being loud and obnoxious got you exactly what you deserved.
50% of all FDA approved medications are taken off the market post approval due to dangers associated with use.
Is not okay to say that vaccines have benefitted humanity greatly however there may be some harmful ones out there that require re-examining as they came from a time when investigation into big pharmaceutical companies wasn't common? Companies that are are the most corrupt and most fined sections of business.
>50% taken off the market due to dangers
What you mean we keep studying things and changing our actions based on new data and circumstances? Cray
>Why are vaccines a sacred cow
I mean they aren't. They're the most studied medicine on earth with both the products and the regimens undergoing constant examination and change...
For instance, the HPV vaccine (prevents 90% of cervical cancer) used to be only for young female children but was found to be safe and effective so it was expanded to older populations of both sexes (for boys and men it prevents symptoms and reservoir).
Or look at the Tb vaccine; my parents and grandparents got the vaccine but neither me or my children did due to Tb being effectively contained in my country. Same for polio. And we were soooo close to measles...
Or small pox, where vaccination actually eradicated the disease (which had stalked humanity for at least 5000 years, with evidence being found in Egyptian mummies); my grandparents got the vaccine, my dad got it but my mom didn't due to their area growing up, and neither me nor my kids got it.
My point is you go through a rigorous approval process for putting a medication out that is then deemed "safe" and then retracted as unsafe later.
It's good that they pull it and try to make better, I'm not criticizing that, I'm simply stating treatments approved to be safe sometimes aren't and we should be looking at vaccines the same way.
Pull the bad ones and change actions based on new data like you stated!
The data at the time, and still currently years later, was that these vaccines were safe and effective at preventing severe symptoms, hospitalizations, and deaths. This enabled the economy to open back up, which also saved lives. In medicine like anything else nothing is guaranteed but you have to take the data you have and take action based on that.
Yes, I'm sure thats still the narrative the large pharmaceutical companies and the media conglomerates or politicians they pay to keep that falsity going continue to say
My dude... Look all of this is publicly available and has been reinforced over and over with research from around the globe. Your position isnt based on evidence, it's based on conspiratorial fantasy.
Because vaccines aren't even remotely similar to conventional medications. If you weren't so regarded and knew the slightest bit about biochemistry, you wouldn't be spewing your ignorant shit. Also good job pulling that 50% number completely out of your ass (hint, the number of meds taken off market for safety reasons isnt even remotely close to that)
You're right , I misheard the statistic, it's actually closer to 1/3 or 32%, which is still way higher than it should be.
Vaccines are tested for safety in humans like medications. No duh they aren't the same buy still need testing for safety.
Genuine question; what pieces of evidence make you feel convinced that the recent vaccines are likely harmful?
I'm curious to read what's set your mind on this idea, not trying to argue or dissuade you on your stance
Because there was 8 months of development and testing prior to release when most vaccines get 5-10 years of testing to prove safety and efficacy. The fastest vaccine release prior to covid was the measles vaccine which was 4 years, and that was in the middle of an epidemic too.
There are serious issues with myocarditas that were suppressed and even lied about, which goes against a patient's right to informed consent. There was also lots that had graphene in them which lead to blood clots in healthy individuals.
All for a vaccine that didn't prevent you from getting covid. Didn't prevent you from transmitting it (there's evidence to assume made transmission worse) and didn't even lessen the effects of covid.
Would you mind linking/suggesting some sources?
I'm impressed by how quickly tanks were built in WW2 by various nations but wouldn't instantly trust an argument that one was built too fast to be safe without hearing from people with more experience in manufacturing tanks/combat vehicles or from historians who've analysed the safety statistics compared to prior tanks that were developed over longer periods of time
The vast majority of the time it takes to develop a medication is safety testing over long periods of time to study possible long term effects. Normally this is a 5-10 years process.
While tanks are rapidly built during times of war, tanks rapidly build won't just spontaneously kill you or give you cancer 10 years later.
Less than 8 months was not enough time to determine long term effects of something injected into your body and all the possible reactions it could have.
Again, I'm not trying to call you a liar or idiot, I just don't think either of us is an expert on this matter and would appreciate you pointing me to the people that you trust to know more about these things so I can hear them explain it
Look up Dr. Peter McCullough l. The most published cardiologist in his field and Dr. Robert Malone the inventor of mRNA vaccine technology.
They are where I got most of my information from
>All for a vaccine that didn't prevent you from getting covid. Didn't prevent you from transmitting it (there's evidence to assume made transmission worse) and didn't even lessen the effects of covid
Don't fucking lie. I was actually on my internship during that time and it was night and day regarding COVID. The respiratory ward turned from a WW1 field hospital scenario to moderate flu season in a matter of weeks.
>Because there was 8 months of development and testing prior to release when most vaccines get 5-10 years of testing to prove safety and efficacy
Risk vs benefit. The benefits from stopping COVID far surpassed the potential risks. Life returned to normalcy quite soon after widespread adoption.
That's because everyone eventually got COVID and developed a natural immunity which studies show to be far more effective than the vaccine. You have survivor bias here.
The risk didn't outweigh the benefit. Covid had a .3% mortality rate, and if you believe the statistic that 85% of people never knew they had it, that mortality rate drops significantly
>That's because everyone eventually got COVID and developed a natural immunity which studies show to be far more effective than the vaccine. You have survivor bias here
Yeah, I'm just gonna believe in conjecture instead of the evidence that showed the vaccine working.
>The risk didn't outweigh the benefit. Covid had a .3% mortality rate, and if you believe the statistic that 85% of people never knew they had it, that mortality rate drops significantly
FFS not this shit again. My man, that .3 becomes HUGE when you consider how contagious it was. Whenever people say it's "just a worse flu" i can tell they have zero clue about how fucking awful flu season is and how hospitals are often on the verge during that time.
That "slightly worse" is enough to surpass the healthcare system and start detonating unrelated preventable deaths (people who didn't die due to COVID, but who died due to the degraded quality due to the healthcare system collapsing).
High mortality pathogens are actually a blessing because they self contain, like ebola. But high contagion with slightly worse mortality than the flu are the ones that absolutely fuck up things because .3 of a million is still 3000, with a fuckton more that don't die but stay in the hospital for prolonged times using up all the beds.
Hm I do wonder what could have possibly caused them to develop the covid vaccine in 8 months. Definitely couldn’t’ve been the fact that it was the biggest global pandemic in a century. The point of the covid vaccine is not to prevent you from getting it, it’s to prevent you from getting it badly enough to hospitalise or kill you. They’re pretty similar to flu shots in that regard (at this point covid is kind of just the flu but a bit worse tbh)
8 month development wasn't the issue, the 5-10 years safety testing boiled down to less than 8 months is the issue.
As a result were seeing a lot of long term effects that are possibly due to vaccine related injuries.
[Compare the child 1995 vaccine schedule to 2025.](https://i.imgur.com/DzZFxsv.png) and ask if children are healthier. So yes, vaccines are a solution that became a tradition.
But vaccines say the problem are measles and HPV. The problem is actually health. [Epilepsy, gender dysphoria, autism, asthma, obesity, myocarditis, estrogen levels, depression, diabetes, anxiety](https://i.imgur.com/3gbfywH.png) are all skyrocketing. Guess we just need vaccines for those too.
You're saying viral infections aren't "health"? All these things are part of the same field. The things you're blaming are often a result of lifestyle choices and capitalism.
We are healthier because of vaccines. Vaccines don't make people healthier in a general sense. They prevent viral infections and some viruses have literally been eliminated from humanity. You're just making a false equivalence between an overall health score and vaccines. Why?
Nah, vaccines are constantly changing, research is going on, old vaccines are being questioned as new knowledge is created. Vaccines aren't a tradition.
I'm gonna skip the low-hanging vaccine/autism joke, but vaccines fit the above story to a T if you don't get hung up on the word tradition.
* we had a problem
* vaccines solved the problem
* we kept vaccinating kids even though the problem was solved (you could say this is _sorta_ tradition)
* people forgot about the diseases vaccines prevented, and some people started to refuse to vaccinate themselves (or their kids)
*measels started to have a bit of a comeback lately
I don't even think it's sorta tradition, I think it is exactly tradition. that's the entire point of that caliber of laws (take care of yourself for everyone's health, government sponsored and required for school and shit). nobody would do it if the law (tradition) wasn't there, we just do it because we already were doing it (in our current state)
That's not true. Talk to boomers about polio and vaccines circa the mid-50s. People were clamoring for vaccines when they understood what these otherwise preventable diseases would do to you and your children.
because we hadn't had enough time to forget. you touched on exactly the problem- "they understood what these otherwise preventable diseases would do". I don't think you could ask a millennial about polio and get a fear response, but I'm sure a boomer could give you one.
> sorta
That's precisely what it's not. This shitty ass post is about Chesterton's Fence. It describes tradition as doing what has solved a problem after forgetting what the problem was in the first place, then changing what is being done without understanding why it came to be done. This is only bad if the problem persists and now the solution is gone. Now there are still plenty of illnesses against which vaccines are being used. They're not obscure forefather's knowledge, they're just in different parts of the world now. A world wildly interconnected. And there are still plenty of new illnesses against which vaccines get developed, so they very concept of vaccination isn't obscure, yet done out of tradition. This is how science works, you build on established knowledge, sometimes question it, sometimes extend it.
Literally absolutely not "literally vaccines". Without establishing whether there was a tradition to begin with, it doesn't apply. Why are vaccination rates down? Is it that people have forgotten why vaccines exist, is it because funding is down and they would if they could?
Rates are lower now because of misinformation pushed by the largest and alternative media networks, so the funding is there just in the opposite direction
Abandoning traditions isn't necessarily a bad thing. Slavery and beating your wife were "traditions"
The issue that this post is talking about is abandoning tried and true positions that have justifications for their efficacy because people are too stupid or lazy to understand why they are a thing.
Are there a couple of progressive positions you could maybe point to? Perhaps, yeah. But the vast majority of the anti science and anti institutional rhetoric is coming from MAGA, and it's not particularly close.
Leftists are the ones lying about science to fit their worldview. You're just used to ignoring it. Being gay was medically classified as a mental illness until the 80s when leftists decided to accept gays and just lie about the science. It's leftists who lie about the differences between men and women. It is leftists who push for lower standards so women can be cops and firefighters. It's leftists who don't allow the publications of research on blacks showing they are inherently more violent and low iq. It is leftists who try to censor crime statistics about muslim immigrants. The whole leftist machine is anti-science and anti-logic. You'd rather force a desired "progressive" worldview where everyone is equal than be scientific about the real one.
Any examination of data on disease decline shows improvements in medications alongside cleaner environments, which have brought disease frequency and lethality down. Vaccine introduction has had no or virtually no impact on the decline of any disease other than Rabies.
In truth, most diseases you are vaccinated against are no longer lethal in the modern age, thanks to newer medications.
Polio? Mumps? Measles? Rubella? Theres been loads of diseases that have become rare due to herd immunity.
You think that the recent return of measles coinciding with the surge in antivax sentiment is a coincidence?
>Any examination of data on disease decline shows improvements in medications alongside cleaner environment
Lol this statement is so full of shit. I bet you you cant link even a single research article about this.
How about not changing the subject. You claim that there is no evidence of reduction in diseases such as smallpox or polio after the introduction of the vaccines. This is bullshit.
I was expecting at least one person to mention that conditions, challenges, and available tools change over time, necessitating change in traditions... But nope lol
The worst thing that came out of covid Vax conspiracy was it giving more people to the belief that vaccines cause autism, these people are so fucking dumb
Historically, no nation has survived doing so. If not for deficit spending, no nation on Earth today that does so would be in any other stage other than collapse or failed state.
America is not unique in begin near bankrupt. Europe is toast as well. It is a miracle of some dark god that China hasn't completely imploded yet. There are few nations that will survive the coming collapse, not many.
Inflation is the lowest it’s been since 2020, real wage growth is at 1%. As a proportion of gdp, we have a third of the debt America has, and we’ve actually been paying some of it off in recent years. Try again.
Two things
1) Actual inflation is not low; it remains high. Inflation statistics often overlook food and other essential items that are subject to price increases, creating the impression that fiscal policy is effective when it is not.
2) When they say lowest it's been, they mean you're still losing value on your dollar, just slower than other times.
Is that wage growth across the entire economy, or is it once again for the top earners?
The optimal inflation range set out by the reserve bank is 2-3%, and inflation is currently at 2.4%.
The overall wage growth was 3.4%, with a specific growth of 3.8% for workers covered by union agreements, and the minimum wage was increased by 3.7% at the start of the last fiscal year (it’s just been increased by 3.8% again). Based off that I’d say wage growth this year probably favoured lower income workers, not the ones at the top. Fiscal policy in the past few years in this country has been primarily focused on benefitting those at the bottom and in the middle (tax changes also have done this).
Optimal? B\*\*\*\* I don't want to have wealth taken from me through inflation. There is no optimal inflation. Inflation, as calculated in the 90s, which is weak compared to how it was calculated in the 70s, had inflation over 6% in 2023. It's not as low as you think because inflation doesn't count energy or food. In the 70s both of these were counted.
I’m not an economist so I can’t properly explain to you why a small amount of inflation is considered optimal. However, a quick google search says that it:
- encourages investment
- avoids deflation
- allows for flexibility in government monetary policy during recessions
The inflation measure that is used in Australia includes both food and energy prices, and has been in use since 1960 (with a few changes since then).
Inflation does not encourage investment, the government causes recessions and then makes them worse with thay "flexibility", and deflation after periods of inflation is a good thing. A deflationary spiral is dangerous as a macro economic trend.
What you are trying to say is liquidity. When there is not enough cash in the market, investment and spending can grind to a halt. This causes economic issues. It is solved by printing more money and this results in minor inflation.
There are other methods to free up capital that do not cause inflation. Inflation is a tax on the poor.
Idk man, I don’t think governments are responsible for every recession. Maybe that’s true with your government, but it was almost solely because of the government’s financial management that we dodged a recession during the gfc down here. As I said, I’m not an economist. Are you?
Yes! They caused it through deregulating the banks and not doing their regulatory oversight. Then they bailed out the banks and not the people while allowing the banks to continue doing the same shenanigans.
Look into unrealized losses and the upcoming banking crisis that will kick off in the next couple years. Get ready for round two of the GFC.
There is a clear reason the founding fathers refused them the right to vote, yet people just forgot why after a couple years and gave them the right to vote again. modern society then went down the toilet
It results in the lowest common denominator(AKA the dumbest lot) being the deciding factor of the direction of a country. Just convince your average dumbass and you are golden, and that is all that they work for, hence the liberal dominance we have seen around the world. The only reason someone like Trump managed to become president again was an incredible level of incompetence by the left which managed to underestimate the intelligence of it's people.
I can give you several examples from my own country (unfortunately):the government promised an increase in welfare to the poor(unemployed, which is a massive part of the country) by each extra child, and a new one for high school students until they are formed. Needless to say, the country has no means to match those extra costs, and the economy is taking a massive hit already. Their answer to the lowered popularity? creating a new assistance to get "free" energy to the same people who already hold the most voting power.
The reality is that this modern "democracy" only serves to hold the best people hostage to the whims of the least productive.
Because the government doesn't think of the future and let's inflation run loose due to it's unbridled populism, which ruins everyone's earning power, forcing the lower class into a position where they have to depend on it to survive, therefore securing their votes.
Are there really many countries with inflation problems soley due to their spending? It wasn't that long ago people in my country complaining about the government having caused inflation like world events like covid and the russian ukraine war hadn't caused inflation world wide.
Sure, Covid definitely didn't help anyone, but chalking it all up to extraordinary events like that is just an attempt at hiding the terrible management of the government. Just look at the USA, for example:The most powerful country in the world
, arguably the most organized of them all considering it's size, had also been wasting millions of tax payer money on absolutely useless "projects".
I'm not sure what you think this is. You are not some majesty that i have to convince, just an everyday thick headed redditor. If you want complex answers, then you better bring a real argument, not some lazy ass one line question.
Maybe because people with a stake in the country's future won't vote for it's destruction
Same reason why only people with kids or people who served should be allowed to vote.
>
Same reason why only people with kids or people who served should be allowed to vote.
Add some intellectual test to erase the apes that reproduce like crazy and watch any country become at least 50% better overall in 10 years.
Idk man I think whether or not your country collapses is gonna affect you regardless of whether you’ve served or have children. I do agree that people over a certain age shouldn’t vote though
The problem is they decide that only they can have a stake in the country.
If you're a black woman who's interested in the country? Tough shit should've been born a rich white land owner.
As soon as you let everyone vote the bottom 90% start voting to take the top 10%'s stuff. Every democracy tends towards socialism and it's bad for everyone long term. If only the top 10% have the vote then they vote for protectionism which keeps themselves in the top 10% and it's bad for everyone long term. Can't win.
It's almost like voting is meaningless and direct democracy leads to socialism, which leads to communism, which abolishes all class and hierarchy, which would be worse for the 10% who have a state-endorsed monopoly on violence to prevent any of that from happening. 🤔
Maybe the top 10 percent should stop cutting wages and services while charging ever higher rent, all in the name of ever higher profits which will simply be reinvested to grow ever higher profits. Somehow when looking at theft, no one ever looks at wage theft of the theft of working people's leisure time.
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I mean, Lilith and Adam read like modern feminism problems we have today.
The more you read history the more you will realize weve been doing the same shit over and over.
As each civilization cycle has collapsed the next ones religion/philosophy creates rules that are put in place to prevent what caused the previous fall. Time passes, people forget the why, old problems are brought back and rinse repeat.
Yeah, fictional or not their stories repeat today, same things. If you are unaware it is not uncommon to write fictional stories to teach lessons about real life issues. You may also be unaware how historically relevant many works of fiction there are.
Ugly Reddit polygamists act like monogamy and family units are "outdated traditions they've ascended past", yet they are rife with mental illnesses and STDs 🤔
Most of the most powerful politicians are pedos, so if you recently voted for any president, either dem or rep, you helped vote in a pedo for office. Guess you guys don't care what the dude did to children, as you long as you get your tax cut or whatever
There’s a substantial difference between “politician who there is actual decent evidence in favour of them being a pedo” and “politician whose only evidence supporting the idea of them being a pedo is the fact that they’re a politician”
Sorry to break it to you, but your president goes to the same parties as the American president, it is what they all after they meet for economic shit or whatever
Only now since they hate Trump so much. All the elites being trafficking kids and was a right wing conspiracy less than 10 years ago according to leftists. Remember Pizzagate?
It was a conspiracy because there was no evidence, not because progressives liked or defended pedos - what absolute crack are you smoking to think that Trump is the point where progressives started disliking pedos??
And Pizzagate? The theory with zero evidence to back it? The crazy idea that some guy's emails had coded messages about child abuse rings and resulted in some lunatic going to a pizzeria with a rifle to look for trafficked kids?? That's the thing you're using to say that right wingers care about stopping pedos?
Next you'll tell me that the flat earth conspiracy is proof that flat earthers care about stopping misinformation in science - grow up man
You should have read the emails and decided for yourself instead of regurgitating what you found on wikipedia. I remember looking through them and there was an email where Podestra asked or someone else asked him what they were having for dinner and the reply was just an attachment. The attachment was a picture of a smiling kid.
Epstein and the trafficking of white girls by elites is a very old and well known conspiracy among "the right". People even wrote [books](https://www.amazon.com/Filthy-Rich-Billionaires-Scandal-Shocking/dp/1455542644?crid=1N9U9Y8OL8FYH&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.wiIhw1pg8VSw2rAt_9jmBA.WUod9kXuefRsOnCX12I_FA6rGDo7Wrrv0qUBQcyHND4&dib_tag=se&keywords=Filthy+Rich%3A+The+Shocking+True+Story+of+Jeffrey+Epstein+%E2%80%93+The+Billionaire%E2%80%99s+Sex+Scandal&qid=1752716038&sprefix=filthy+rich+the+shocking+true+story+of+jeffrey+epstein+the+billionaire+s+sex+scandal%2Caps%2C70&sr=8-1) about it years before he was charged. I knew Epstein was raping girls in 2016. When did you? In 2019 after he was charged?
Now it's the left spreading conspiracies like "Epstein didn't kill himself" and "Trump rigged the election". Maybe you guys are finally growing up but I know it's just because Trump made you mad. You never cared about Joe Biden touching kids live on tv.
>regurgitating what you found on wikipedia
I'll own up to that, but I only did it because I'm not a loony who thinks RichPedosRunEverything.blog and random websites are a good place to get information on things I know nothing about - I like my info sources to come with citations so I can look up any claims they make
>I knew Epstein was raping girls in 2016. When did you? In 2019 after he was charged?
I found out that Epstein existed when he became international news, just like every other normal person - I'm not a journalist or anything so why should I have known about this one specific guy before the rest of the world did? There's no prizes for being the first to know something or pretending to be smarter than everyone because you happened to know the info earlier.
>Now it's the left spreading conspiracies like "Epstein didn't kill himself" and "Trump rigged the election".
Is this conspiratorial left in the room with us now? I don't care if Epstein was given a gulag style execution and it was covered up to look like a suicide or if he actually decided to rope himself because he finally realised what a piece of trash he was, I care that rich and powerful people run every country and we have no way to hold them back because right wing folks keep crying about immigrants or gays instead of focusing on the actually important issues. Trump didn't need to rig the election, whoever won would've been a pedo defender and I want a society where the system isn't built for giving rich elites everything and the rest of us whatever scraps they haven't noticed.
Joe Biden should be roasting in a Guantanamo style prison because he's a rich elite that didn't release the files, Obama and every other elected official who've failed to change the system into a better one should too - there's no gotcha here for lefties, only conservative chuds unwilling to discard their politicians (as if sucking them off will help improve things for the average person)
If you only know what CNN announces then you're ignorant are you not?
>no way to hold them back because right wing folks keep crying about immigrants or gays instead of focusing on the actually important issues.
And the left insists on bringing these undesirables along. So who is really slowing things down?
The only thing that will fix the corrupt powerful people is directed violence against them. That's the only thing that has ever worked in history The people need to be united for that. But there is too much individualism and a lack of collectivism. People in the cities don't trust the person walking behind them. Too many crazy people let loose out of the asylums by leftists in the 90s. The whole country is addicted to drugs. The country further divided by all the undesirables you want to protect and the politics around them. Go look at the state of their countries and see if they will be of any use taking down corruption. There's a reason their countries are all shit.
Yes in france aka pedoland the crime for pedophilia rape is slap on the wrist for a reason, we are lucky most people in jail can still use common sense.
This is absolutely hilarious coming from what is most likely a sentient double baked potato festering in his double wide while on a steady diet of government cheese and disability checks. Fuckin parasite.
\>Hallucinate negative character traits about person I disagree with
\>Anyone with these traits can only be wrong
\>I am therefore right
Redditors out!
Average mung-brained response from an 6-chinned Trump supporter that can’t understand subtext or nuance. I won’t spell it out for you because the basic four and five letter words I’ll use will go sailing right over the empty void that is your head.
Go back to jerkin your tiny gherkin to loli porn.
Just like everything else in life, there are levels to problems as well. Considering the world has been living the "progressive dream" for about 10-15 years by now and been getting progressively worse at an alarming rate, it's safe to say tradition had way less of them.
So your view is that progress is about change for the better, what is happening over the last couple of years shouldnt even count as progress, so we should return to some tradition?
Even if you're right, and that returning to some traditional way of life (whatever that means) is better, it still falls under your definition of progress.
Progress is kinda hard to define, same with tradition arguing one over the other without context arises from politcal instinct more than actual opinion
>Even if you're right, and that returning to some traditional way of life (whatever that means) is better, it still falls under your definition of progress.
What about it though? The progress of today is the tradition of tomorrow. Traditions are simply a set of rules that were proven benefitial over long periods of time.
I disagree with progress being hard to define. Every change leads to an outcome, if over several years the outcome of said change ends up with a worse result to the country, than it objectively cannot be called progress. Plain and simple.
I see you dropping some wisdom, but Its not plain and simple, not every change leads to an observable outcome. In cases with outcomes how do we determine cause. Causality is also extremely hard to place, there is no possible logic you can do to change "a then b" to "a causes b". Then theres the problem of judging what is worse, what is better, sveryone has different values. Progress for one is regress for another.
I think you are making it sound way more difficult than it actually is. We don't need a perfect execution of this idea to reap it's benefits...if that was the only way to do things, we would have no system in place because they are all imperfect.
The fact of the matter is that whatever change is worth discussing will always lead to some observable result, and the government has all that data and money at their disposal to figure it out. They just don't do it because they don't see how it benefits them. Turns out it's easier to gain public aproval(the only thing that matters) by funding whatever shiny new stupid idea and pretend you are always in the right than to look back at the tangible effects of your actions and say" yeah, we messed up, but we are going to find a better solution in the future".
It's very easy to see what is for the greater good of all, and what is not, that transcends personal value. These are not things one person needs to deem good or not. Again, they haven't been doing it not because it is difficult, but because thinking of the far future doesn't line their pockets.
There are very few cut and dry issues, and most are already tradition. Eg, dont fuck with the fed's independence. I also dont buy the line their pockets
I can give a couple examples of the top of my head of easy issues being complicated.
Gun control is on the easier side, one side thinks people dying is bad, the other side fears tyranny and guns are an insurance.
How tough we should be on China is much harder, the more we antagonise, the more they lash out and respond and we get hurt. If we dont do anything, they might continue military drills near taiwan, or might bully their way to claim a contested island in the south china sea.
Idk where this conversatiom is going.
Again you cling to that notion that everything must be perfectly executed or else it's better to not do it. Get this into your head: nothing the government has ever done was perfectly executed. There isn't a single thing that works flawlessly in practical terms, including the law. The only reason you keep grasping for that impossible metric is because you don't like being wrong, but you are.
>here are very few cut and dry issues, and most are already tradition.
Again, heavily disagree. Half the "issues" we have nowadays were created entirely in the heads of a particular set of people that have absolutely nothing to find fault at in life but still want to play the new age revolutionary.
Your misunderstanding what im saying, im not asking for perfect execution, im saying that were making choices based on values. People value different things differently. Like i literally gave out 2 examples. There probably isnt a corrext solution.
>Half the "issues" we have nowadays were created entirely in the heads of a particular set of people that have absolutely nothing to find fault at in life but still want to play the new age revolutionary.
That is probably the most bad faith thing you can say, ever.
You don't know were it's going, clearly, because what the hell does China have to do with traditions getting run over? You completely left the scope of the argument.
Unemployment literally soared at the end of his term due to the pandemic ON YOUR OWN SOURCES, and GAS WAS QUITE LITERALLY SOARING DURING THE TUME BEFORE HIS TERM. Inflation also started to take a sharp rise during the end of his term.
The inflation is not gonna be at its peak since the pandemic if you are hopefully aware, was nowhere NEAR over.
Whining about a sitting president creating jobs, which is quite literally what happens yes. And again unemployment is higher than Biden’s term post pandemic.
Also, the stock market situation was nowhere near as volatile. The stock market falling drastically was quite literally due to his announcement of tariffs. Cant exactly inherit something mainly caused by your policies. The debacle happened months after he became president, not sure how that’s Biden’s fault but alright.
One thing you miraculously got right was that Biden had a bad withdrawal and wasn’t the best at it. In the same vein, I’ve never seen Biden threaten to withdraw money away from Ukraine because of not getting what he wanted.
What about the Epstein List? He campaigned off that, and covered it up like the rest. You trust a man that can’t keep his promises or a straight coherent narrative.
Hell, he can’t go a few meetings without falling asleep on the job. In that regard, Trump and Biden might be the same.
tradition is the most degenerate way to find solutions. its like: "the solution is X"... but why? ... "i dont know, its been like this forever". do you really think anything would have ever been invented this way? we would still be fckin hunters and gatherers.
We got out of the Stone Age....because of progressivism.
Middle Ages? Got out of it because of progressivism.
If bigots still ran the show we'd still be playing with sticks and stones.
This 4chan klanservative that are mentally handicapped. It's like, you know they are in some busted up wheel chair in some dank room of their mom's trailer hating people and everything they do, they are such experts in life. Guess it's just their disability. They don't know any better?
Very important thing to consider is that things can be corrupted and misused. Just consider technology, theres good and bad use of it, and just because something solved an issue, doesnt mean it cant be used to abuse citizens later down the line. And not just abused, but even overusing a thing can make it bad.
"we're the only smart humans, every idea before 1960 was evil and bad"
Nah, we need to return to tradition. That includes fighting the enemies of Christendom.
> Matthew 22:36-40:
> 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
> 37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Which Christendom
Because the bloodiest war in Europe before ww1 was a catholic-protestant chimpout and if you go before thatit was regularly massacring other varieties of christians and sacking constantinople because crusaders decided walking all the way to moslemlands is too hard
Marriage. Studies have shown that the most disadvantageous stat you can be born with isn't skin tone, genitals, LGBTQ status, etc. - it's having a single mom.
Look at the struggle of African-Americans to succeed in the US. The left says it's racism, but then why are Kenya and Nigeria in the top 5% of about 130 countries in terms of how well their immigrants do here?
Btw the black single motherhood rate is so high because of the democrat's well-intentioned but ultimately harmful policies: 1) welfare state, 2) no-fault divorce.
And instead of looking critically at their policies, they just assume it's good because their intentions are good, and that all problems are republican's fault. All heart, no brain.
I remember hearing about this plant that Brazilian natives would eat (cassava) which had a very particular cooking process. It got brought to Africa and people began eating it but they would get sick and die. Turns out that process is to remove the cyanide that's present in the plant. People weren't explained that because the people who made the process didn't even know why they were doing it other than that's how you do it.
I don't think it's just a progressive thing, although it is a core feature of liberalism to question tradition and find new things while conservatives tend to be slow to new things. You see it when people think they're going to be the one to start a trend cooking chicken rare, sun their assholes, or what have you.
Ah yes, slow, like our present decimation of govt services nearly a century old, or giving 5T to a new, masked, unaccountable police force that can imprison people indefinitely without trial. Sloooooooow.
The ones drinking raw water are cons, not libs. The anti school woo woo ancestral magic 'hippies' were never firmly in the lib camp.
I'm sorry the definition of conservative doesn't conform to how people act in your eyes. You know Republicans didn't make illegal immigration their issue until after the Democrats made it their issue twenty years ago, but they moved on and Republicans kept it going?
It's the reason why Republicans don't want to legalize weed. Part of it is the traditional condemnation of it as an evil drug and partly them waiting for studies to come out to prove its safety.
Beautiful meme but here people (liberals) are just making reducio at Trumpum, missing and twisting in their views.
Tradition were results of experience in society, for example if all previous society were trying to regulate immigration, their were GOOD reasons. If even the old Romans or China made some neighbourhood ONLY for certain community, THEIR were good reason to it... It was to avoid violence and problems because they knew multiculturalism wasn't really fully possible.
But here they are all in "gnnuuu Trump". So pathetic.
In Belgium, the EuroSoviet once decided that, the farmer land waste to many surfaces for the tractor because of the haies, idk the word in English but basically it's vegetation that delimited farmland.
Farmers knew that this vegetation was there not only by tradition, but also because it could fix the dirt on the land when rains come.
Guess what happens ? Yeah... An other victory for 'Captain EURSS... OFC not
>Both ancient Rome and ancient China had complex and evolving approaches to immigration, but they were not always "stringent" in the way we might understand that term today. Their policies were largely driven by their imperial needs, security concerns, and cultural perceptions.
>Ancient Rome, especially during its expansionist phases, was remarkably open to integrating diverse populations, particularly in its earlier periods.
> * Foundation Myth and Early Republic: Rome's foundational myth involved it being a "city of asylum," welcoming refugees and exiles. In the early Republic, citizenship could be acquired through various means, including military service or contributions to the state. Laws like the Lex Canuleia (445 BCE) allowed intermarriage between Roman citizens and non-citizens, promoting integration.
> * Expansion and Citizenship: As the Roman Republic and later Empire expanded, it often extended forms of citizenship to conquered peoples, sometimes with limited rights (like Latin Rights) that could eventually lead to full Roman citizenship. This was a key strategy for Romanization and maintaining stability in its vast territories.
> * Slaves and Freedmen: Slaves, a significant part of Roman society, could gain their freedom (manumission) and become "liberti" (freed people), who enjoyed many legal rights and whose children were born as full citizens. This was a unique pathway to integration for people from diverse backgrounds.
> * Later Empire: As the empire faced decline and increased pressures from Germanic tribes, immigration policies did become more stringent. Emperors like Septimius Severus imposed restrictions on movement, particularly along frontiers, to preserve stability. The Gothic invasions, in particular, highlight a period where Rome struggled to control large-scale migration. However, it's important to note that even then, Rome often tried to resettle groups within the empire, albeit disarming them and breaking them into smaller units to prevent threats.
> * Edict of Caracalla (212 CE): A major turning point was the Edict of Caracalla, which granted Roman citizenship to virtually all free inhabitants of the empire. This expanded the concept of "Roman" immensely, but by this point, the practical benefits of citizenship were also somewhat diminished compared to the Republic.
> In summary, Rome's approach was often pragmatic and adaptive, using citizenship and integration as tools for imperial governance, rather than a blanket "stringent" exclusion.
>Ancient China, while also an imperial power, often had a more controlled and at times restrictive approach to population movement, particularly regarding non-Han ethnic groups and settlement in certain regions.
> * Internal Migration: Chinese dynasties, including the Han, often employed compulsory migration policies for various purposes, such as populating newly conquered or less inhabited lands, or relocating minority groups. This was a means of territorial control and resource management.
> * Border Regions and Ethnic Groups: The Qing dynasty, for instance, famously prohibited Han Chinese from settling in Manchuria (the Manchu homeland) and Outer Mongolia, aiming to preserve Manchu and Mongol ethnic identities and control. Mongols were also forbidden from crossing into the "18 provinces" inhabited by Han people without permission. However, practical needs like famine relief could lead to temporary relaxation of these bans, with Han refugees being allowed into Manchuria and Inner Mongolia.
> * Limited External Immigration: Compared to Rome's systematic integration of diverse peoples into its citizenship framework, ancient China generally had less emphasis on large-scale immigration from outside its traditional sphere. Foreigners were often viewed with suspicion or as tribute-bearing entities rather than potential citizens.
> * "Barbarian" Policies: Chinese dynasties often dealt with surrounding "barbarian" tribes through a combination of military campaigns, tribute systems, and sometimes limited resettlement within the empire's borders, aiming for pacification and cultural assimilation rather than broad integration into the Han social structure.
>In conclusion, while both empires sought to manage their populations and territories, ancient Rome, especially in its earlier and expansionist phases, had a more fluid and inclusive approach to integrating immigrants through citizenship. Ancient China, on the other hand, often implemented more restrictive internal migration policies and generally had a more insular approach to external populations, especially in later dynasties like the Qing, where maintaining distinct ethnic boundaries was a significant concern.
I guess you're right on China, somewhat, if you ignore the constant dynastic civil wars
I wasn't meaning they wanted to be fully agains't immigration (despite both empires built walls).
I say - they managed immigration, they didn't let people live where THEY want, which is very different
> If even the old Romans or China made some neighbourhood ONLY for certain community, THEIR were good reason to it... It was to avoid violence and problems because they knew multiculturalism wasn't really fully possible.
The USA is the antithesis of this argument, literally a country of immigrants living on top each other - it has created a new world-spanning culture by taking bits and pieces from so many other nations and people's. Multiculturalism is possible and works, the USA is literally all the proof you need to see that different groups can live together and produce something new and unique.
It's frustrating that so many people pretend like we have some inherent "fight other humans" gene that activates when you live near someone of a different ethnic or religious background, but reality is that it's always made for new and more versatile groups. Literally no other nation is as strong or multifaceted as the USA. China, as powerful as it is, will never have the same amount of cultural appeal or impact because of it's insistence on monoculturalism.
(Also I'm not a USA-stan - the country is a nightmare state because it's so
young as a nation and has had too much wealth too fast to have developed into a more normal nation state. It's just an incredibly good example of multiculturalism working if everyone stops being upright pussies about living next to someone that doesn't share a great grandma with them)
I'm seeing people on Twitter schizoposting about how the government is about to dump irradiated flesh eating bugs on the South, fantastic example of this.
There used to be a disgusting bug native to North America called the screw worm fly, that would feed on and lay eggs in living flesh. By using sterilized flies we were able to decimate its population and completely irradiate it from Canada, the US, Mexico, and most of Central America back in the 30s.
Well, the first swarm of them in ages has made its way from South America is is threatening to make its way back north, so we're pre-emptively flooding the population with flies sterilized with radiation to kill their breeding population before it can start. We used to do this all the time but because it's been nearly 100 years, people have forgotten.
Don't worry guys, luckily we are at the point in history where we're not required to improve anything. So we are allowed to not give a shit. It's fine.
The good old traditions of slavery, oppression, subjugation of workers and women, etc…
You know a tradition I miss? 90% tax rate for millionaires. MAGA by going back to the tax rates of when America was “great.”
The issue is how we’re told
Old religions “don’t have sex until you’re married because sin”
Actual intent: if you have sex multiple times you could get STIs and die
Modern times: continue spouting the same nonsense as over two thousand years
Intent now: control people, with no care of modern medicine and technology to prevent them
Literally Trump
>American have a Trump problem
>American vote in Biden
>Biden becomes solution
>American now say we don't have a Trump problem, Let's go Brandon
>Biden abandoned and labeled as "senile"
>Trump returns
>Cycle repeats.
There is a deeper problem behind this, and it is that western countries love putting senile 80 year olds on the toughest leadership positions. It is much easier for the billionaires that way, they fear working age people having the executive power to make them fall in line. You have to ask yourselves, of 300 million people, are these two the best you have to offer?
I wasn’t aware that was a big issue anywhere outside of America. The oldest prime minister here was 72 when he left, and that was after he had served 18 years.
America is the most extreme, with 80 year olds with obvious dementia symptoms for everyone to see on live television. But 70 year olds with questionable mental and physical fitness in leading political positions is becoming a thing in Europe too.
Biden didn't solve a damn thing. The economy was in the shitter after several years of growth during the Trump administration. And while it didn't exactly do good in 2020, that's not exactly Orange Man's fault. He literally wanted to stop travel from China to keep coronavirus out, and the WHO's response was to call him racist for suggesting it.
So blame Corona when economy went into the shitter in 2020 under Trump and then blame biden for it for not getting us back fast enough.
How's the economy now? even worst than when biden took over. heading for self inflicted recession even after biden brought the economy back from one.
Funny thing is, Trump inherited a [very strong economy](https://www.wsj.com/economy/the-next-president-inherits-a-remarkable-economy-7be2d059) when he took office
That's not really what the post is about
The problem you're describing is an issue in any country; plebs blame their shitty life on the government so whoever is currently in power is hated
That's good anon, now go ahead and look at the tax rate between 1901 and 1975 and look at when the decline in our infrastructure started, when our global ranking in education started dropping, when our rates of poverty and incarceration started increasing, when lobbying started to become a real problem, when the privatization and monopolization became possible and started happening, and see if you can connect some dots
The episode calls to mind Edmund Burke’s *Reflections on the revolution in France*, a prescient meditation on the dangers of dismantling institutions without understanding the long, often painful, process by which they were formed. Burke argued that traditions are not arbitrary relics but the distilled experience of generations. That argument is largely lost on "modern audiences", for whom the historical context has faded into obscurity. The result is a kind of intellectual orphanhood, precisely the condition burke warned against, and one that lends quiet credence to OP's argument
Make an example you r-word
What "tradition" we abandoned that created a problem that recurfaced?
This anon probably likes to suck jewish dick and is defending infant genital mutilation.
You can argue the inverse in literally the same way
>Humans come up with new thing that makes everything better
>things get so good that someone people feel good enough that they don't want anything new or any change and start resisting it on "back in my day basis"
>As soon as they stop coming up with new thing and changing, they stagnate, become corrupt, and collapse as a state
>the shards of that state need to cope up with new thing and change to survive
>ad infinitum
Also, out of examples of rapid change doing better than sticking to tradition, there is:
The Shogunate being opened up rather than sticking to traditional isolation, making Japan the big dick Empire of the East.
Peter the First of Russia literally forcing his nobility to shave off traditional Muscovite beards and build a fleet, turning Russia into the behemoth we know today.
Bismarck preemptively creating general worker insurance and other social reforms to keep the SPD out of power and to make Germany one of the foremost economic and scientific powerhouses of its age.
The list goes on.
I love rants like this because it screams 3AM shower thoughts that lack examples, or that have examples that are both extreme oversimplifications or radically exaggerating the issues.
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