Meta’s New Superintelligence Lab Is Discussing Major A.I. Strategy Changes
Posted by showmeufos@reddit | LocalLLaMA | View on Reddit | 36 comments
Posted by showmeufos@reddit | LocalLLaMA | View on Reddit | 36 comments
randomqhacker@reddit
Of course they have to switch to closed models, how else can they use the stolen IP in the heads of their new hires?
Nah nah, I joke, OpenAI is a nonprofit, so it doesn't really matter, right?
showmeufos@reddit (OP)
https://archive.is/CzXTF
jacek2023@reddit
Why?
People here love models like Qwen, Mistral, Gemma, and many others. Llama has kind of been forgotten at this point.
It’s just disappointing, now both OpenAI and Meta will be "evil companies" again.
ttkciar@reddit
That's pretty much my take, too. Also, we still have the Llama3 models to train further. Tulu3-70B and Tulu3-405B show there's tons of potential there.
I mostly regret that they didn't release a Llama3 in the 24B-32B range, but others have stepped in and filled that gap (Mistral small (24B), Gemma3-27B, Qwen3-32B).
My own plan for moving forward is to focus on continued pretraining of Phi-4-25B unfrozen layers. It's MIT licensed, which is about as unburdensome as a license gets.
Grimulkan@reddit
Agree. I think Llama 3.1/3.3 models are fantastic bases for fine-tuning still, and are more stable due to the dense architecture. Personally, I still find 405B fine-tunes terrific for internal applications. Just not good at code, or with R1-style reasoning (out of the box).
Personally, I'm in the camp of "Llama 3 forever" as far as community fine-tunes go, kinda like "SDXL forever". I can see similar potential, and I think there is still good milleage left, especially for creative applications.
Unfortunately, I think community involvement has not been great, perhaps because great and reasonable paid alternatives exist (Claude, Gemini), and because the community has been split between the GPU users and the CPU users who favor MoE, which is a bit more difficult to train (and the CPU users can't contribute to training).
Pity Meta never released other L3 sizes. I'd have loved a Mistral Large 2 sized model (Nemotron Ultra was great but has a very specific fine-tune philosophy), and a ~30B one (though as you mentioned, others have stepped in).
jacek2023@reddit
Please notice IBM is preparing Granite 4 and it's already supported in llama.cpp. Currently LG Exaone is working on support for their upcoming models. And still there is nvidia with their surprises
giant3@reddit
Exaone has huge potential though some times it never converges on a solution despite spending 2000+ tokens on reasoning. I hope they fix it.
__Maximum__@reddit
Why are you using quotes?
One-Employment3759@reddit
That's just how Alexandr Wang rolls. He is a very cringey guy from everything I've seen of him so far. He doesn't even understand AI he is just CEO bro.
Red_Redditor_Reddit@reddit
If they produce a 2T model, it's closed source for me regardless if they release it.
Extra-Whereas-9408@reddit
No, it's not, you can choose to run it on several Cloud providers, many which are more trustworthy and with less ties to the NSA than closed AI companies.
Red_Redditor_Reddit@reddit
Lol, you get more because now you stand out.
ttkciar@reddit
Sir, this is LocalLLaMA.
TheRealMasonMac@reddit
I'm not surprised at all and I expected this happening after Llama 4 flopped and they didn't release the weights for Llama 3.3 8B. It's essentially guaranteed they'll cease open weighting their models considering the people on the team are greedy af.
Admirable-Star7088@reddit
"terrible" is a strong word. I think the local LLM community has done very well since the last good release of llama 3.3 70b \~8 months ago (Llama 4 was pretty much ignored by most). We had a lot of good models such as GLM-4, Qwen3, dots.llm1, Mistral Medium 3.0 - 3.2, Falcon H1, etc.
It's sad if Meta gives up the llama series, yes, but we are still doing very fine without it.
pip25hu@reddit
I'm not sure. For that to matter, they'll need to develop better models first. As long as they lag behind the competition, the most closing their models can accomplish is saving themselves from embarrassment.
BumbleSlob@reddit
What a strange internal discussion, if true. This is like saying you’re going to improve your grades by hiding your report card from your parents
martinerous@reddit
If they create something great and closed, but still give us a glimpse of it in the shape of Llama 5 or whatever, then it's ok. Google's Gemini / Gemma is a good example of how well it can actually work out.
Much-Contract-1397@reddit
The problem is as RL training compute scales up (Grok 4 suggests), there are very few labs that can keep up. I’d imagine scam Altman and closedAI will doing lots of lobbying to shut down Chinese models.
outdoorsgeek@reddit
How do you shut down a Chinese model?
jacek2023@reddit
So Mark invested so much money into Llama and now it will be flushed into the toilet?
101m4n@reddit
He still has the GPUs and the datasets. Those are most of the investment tbh.
ttkciar@reddit
Supposedly Meta has been releasing weights for models to foment an open source LLM community which develops new technologies they will be able to use in-house, much as they are using other open source technologies in-house (like Linux, MySQL, PHP, Memcached, etc).
Perhaps they believe that community is well established now, and they no longer need to release new model weights? Technologies we develop for these other models should be readily applicable to their in-house models.
burner_sb@reddit
That would be a rational position for them to take (despite thinking it's generally bad, but hey it's not exactly like Meta is morally not-evil). That said, I'm pretty sure the 28 year old jackass who they made CEO doesn't really think that carefully about anything.
loudmax@reddit
From an investor's perspective, that money might be flushed down the toilet.
The leaked Llama models is what got me interested in running LLMs as a hobbyist. That probably goes for a lot of us, or even most of us here. As someone with no particular stake in Meta's financial success, I'll always be grateful to Meta's of making their model open-weights. We probably wouldn't have all the open-weight models we do today if it weren't for Meta's example. It may have been irresponsible for Meta's fiduciary situation, but it worked out well for the rest of us.
mikael110@reddit
Indeed, the Llama model not only had a huge effect on the individual developer community, it pushed the entire industry to be more open.
I feel like a lot of people that came to this later in the cycle might not release just how novel and groundbreaking it was when Meta decided to officially release Llama-2. It was very much against the industry norm at the time. And I have absolutely no doubt that the only reason we have models like Gemma, Mistral, Qwen, etc today is because Meta kickstarted the open LLM movement.
Which is something we should be grateful for, despite the fact that they've faltered lately. I still hope they'll end up taking another shot and releasing an actual good follow up to Llama-3, but even if they will have made a permanent mark in the history of LLMs.
Utoko@reddit
Do they want me to cheer for Chinas world dominance?
A little bit of hope is still saved up for the OpenAI OS model.
Limp_Classroom_2645@reddit
this model is not coming, they would released it by now if they really had it.
ArcaneThoughts@reddit
They keep talking about it, so they will release something eventually. I'll start doubting when there's a long silence.
evilbarron2@reddit
Anyone else get the feeling that LLM capabilities have peaked in terms of problems that can be solved by throwing more resources at them and now have to start optimizing?
ttkciar@reddit
Yes and no.
It is pretty well-established now that an LLM's skillset is determined by the comphrehensiveness of those skills' representation in its training data, and its competence is determined by the quality of that training data and the model's parameter count.
Trainers are thus able to pick and choose which skills a model exhibits, and each training organization has their own priorities. IBM's Granite models, for example, have a fairly sparse skill set, and those skills are fairly specific to business applications. The further implication is that as training datasets become increasingly exclusive of low-priority skills and subject matter, it will be up to the open source community to identify gaps in frontier models' skills and topics, amass training datasets which fill those gaps, and amend models with further training without causing catastrophic forgetting.
High quality training data is still a tricky wicket. Synthetic datasets help, and so does reward-model driven curation, but those are both very compute-intensive, and training data curation still requires the attention and labor of SMEs, who are in limited supply, in high demand, and expensive to employ.
It seems pretty clear that inference quality increases only logarithmically with parameter count, which hits the point of diminishing returns pretty quickly, but we are still learning new ways to make best use of a given parameter budget. There was a recent paper, for example, demonstrating that as the ratio of training to parameters increases, parameters encoding memorized knowledge get cannibalized to encode more generalization capabilities. That will have a profound effect on how we train and evaluate models, but I think it may take a while for the implications to seep outward to the largest players.
There is also still some low-hanging fruit to be plucked at the other end, at inference time, where we can utilize more resources to increase the effective skill sets and competence of existing models. "Thinking" is one example of this (which does not require thinking models, but can be emulated with most models via multi-pass inference), but we can also improve inference quality by means of self-critique, self-mixing, RAG, and more sophisticated forms of Guided Generation.
I think you are right, that there is a lot of optimization to do, too, but there is no shortage of other improvements to keep us busy.
Bandit-level-200@reddit
More censorship, more closed source, more safety.
a_beautiful_rhind@reddit
So you're saying you don't want stem-maxxed llama 1b and 600b?
Bandit-level-200@reddit
I love bench maxxed models trained on useless benchmarks
celsowm@reddit
Sad
custodiam99@reddit
To be honest I can only use Qwen, Gemma and rarely Phi models, so...whatever.