Feeling guilty I don't have startup energy
Posted by cametumbling@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 49 comments
I'm currently interviewing after layoffs and I feel like startups are my best chance of getting a job and some are actively pursuing my background.
But even just looking at the JD I feel burnt out, and I feel like i wouldn't be the best hire. I feel guilty and like I should get my ish together. I'm pretty burnt out on engineering despite not even working at the moment, and wish I could just coast at a big bank or wherever people coast. But feeling like a loser because of it, and wondering when I lost my edge.
Just a general "when/why did I become lame" rant.
mlengurry@reddit
I’ve never had start up energy. Not even in my 20s
cametumbling@reddit (OP)
This makes me feel better. Thanks 😂
neko_farts@reddit
I worked at big tech for 2 years and pursued my own startup, my startup failed because marketing is hard, so I started doing freelance so I don't starve. It was very hard and got so annoyed do I pivoted and got working on another idea for startup, last month I made my first paying customers.
I am learning how to market and also do engineering, designing and a lot of other things. I am soloing it and its extremely exhausting and mentally taxing. The only reason I was able to pursue my startup was, I absolutely hate corporation and my hate for them is so much that I would take pain of startups than to slave away my life for something ill never own.
LateGameMachines@reddit
Corporations will suck your childlike curiosity and capabilities into shareholder value. YMMV. But you don't realize it until you get out, just life is that much bigger and engaging than slaving it out. Good luck and godspeed.
terrany@reddit
I was tired by middle school, personally
Cool_As_Your_Dad@reddit
I'm 47 and feel the same.
I just want a job where I can work like a normal person. Not all the stress, deadlines etc. I'm tired of working hours on end and it feels like it just continious.
My dream. Dev my own game.. make money from that. Or become an uber eats driver.. no thinking.. just go x and deliver y. No bosses to shit on you...
If my retirement was enough I would have...
Affectionate-Fun-339@reddit
Respect for the honesty and courage to post. Sad to hear, that you’re feeling burnt out. Maybe it would help you to do some mindfulness training or similar. For me, it has been very valuable learning to work in a way that respects my personal boundaries. I feel like I found a pace that allows me to embrace my curiosity and passion for my work. Anyways, I hope you get back and going. All the best
MafiaMan456@reddit
Software engineering is mentally taxing and wears you down over time. This is a common feeling. After 15 years in the industry I feel the same. Taking a year off helped, but I also felt like I just didn’t have the energy to give any company. Eventually joined a startup because cash was running low, and 2 things happened:
The excitement of working on this new thing that could explode was infectious. There was an energy from the team that rubbed off on me which makes work more exciting.
A lot of the other staff ICs and senior managers are in the same boat as me: they don’t have anything left to give and they’re just biding their time for an IPO so they can retire early.
It’s funny how everyone who isn’t an engineer wants to break into tech, and everyone in tech wants to get out ASAP. Do your best and if it’s not enough at least you got paid to try ;)
allllusernamestaken@reddit
my biggest career-related regret is that I wasted my early years at a company that moved slower than cold molasses. I was churning out code like crazy but it didn't do me any good. If I had joined a startup with that kind of energy, I could have been a founding engineer.
Now I'm at a smaller, faster moving company and I feel like I'm exhausted and keep up with the kids.
MafiaMan456@reddit
Ha, I felt the same way going from big tech into this startup, but now I’m coming to realize the kids are all slinging code super fast but they’re treading water and not really doing any good business wise, or anything really to do with the bigger picture or with other teams, and that’s where our experience with more mature orgs comes in handy. We don’t need to keep up with them we just have to channel their focus appropriately.
brainrotbro@reddit
Because tech is grueling & uncertain. Which, I’m not complaining bc I’m willing to endure it for the money. But the people who can’t endure it don’t realize until they’re always in it.
cametumbling@reddit (OP)
Those are all great points, thank you. Hope the IPO comes soon :)
secondhandschnitzel@reddit
I work in startups. You are smart. I wish I was able to exist in larger orgs. My life would be a lot better.
investorhalp@reddit
How old are you?
A bank will burn you out even more with their process and strictness.
For a startup figure out the value, apply for a lower entry role if it makes sense “just a coder” instead of something more architectural or team leadership. This is what I did now.
And lastly find some extra way to make income to replace your dependency on tech jobs, it won’t change Much. I have taken 4 months gaps and it’s the same old all over, unless you change something drastically.
cametumbling@reddit (OP)
I'm 44 but have only been a swe for the last several years. You're right, I'd probably hate bank culture, but the pressure of being a startup's only (or one of very few) hire(s) doesn't seem exciting, it seems like a ton of pressure that makes me immediately feel like folding, even if I weren't the lead/senior.
poipoipoi_2016@reddit
As someone who went from a startup to a bank, it's annoying and in 2 years I will get very bored and have not nearly enough lines on my resume.
And I actually sleep now. And make 50% more money. So we pick our tradeoffs.
turningsteel@reddit
I did the same startup to bank, and it was very nice. Good pay, bonuses, and the org is so big you can make an impact or just look like you are making an impact and be fine.
The bad parts are being on call, night action, and bad software engineers masquerading as seniors.
cametumbling@reddit (OP)
So you sleep and make more money at the bank? That sounds okay... 😅
poipoipoi_2016@reddit
In the long term:
I will get very bored.
Because the speed is literally OOM's lower, I will work on less tech and fewer projects which slowly breaks my resume.
I loved working at Google, it's very hard to get the sort of scale that they have ANYWHERE else, but even at Google, it took me 3 months to do the exact same major project I did at the startup in 3 days.
/Migrating user permissions into git-backed IAC running in CI.
cametumbling@reddit (OP)
Yeah that's all very true. For me personally I have a lot of other life things happening right now, so a boring job doesn't sound too bad... but I'm probably romanticizing it and I'd hate it. :) Still want to work at Google, sigg
poipoipoi_2016@reddit
The name was great and the actual underlying project list destroyed my resume.
And now that I've worked at two startups since, I have the Google name to get into the room where I talk about the startup projects.
cametumbling@reddit (OP)
Yep, that makes a lot of sense. I definitely feel like the name would be helpful.
poipoipoi_2016@reddit
2 years or 20.
Froot-Loop-Dingus@reddit
The most burnt out I’ve ever been was working for a big bank. The credit union I worked for was pretty chill though.
iLostInSpace@reddit
Do you mind elaborate a bit more as to why? Was it the culture or work pressure or something else? Curious cause lately been considering moving away from product based domain to banks/fintech etc for various reasons.
Froot-Loop-Dingus@reddit
Honestly, it was just a perfect storm and probably not indicative of the typical work experience. For a couple years it was totally chill with good work life balance. But then we turned some heads with how well we were building some software in the SBA division. We were then re-organized and rebranded as the “rapid application dev team”.
Then Covid happened and the PPP loan program. I was working like 80hr weeks in order to spin up a loan application system to process the massive amounts of PPP loans. After burning out on that they were expecting us to match that output for non emergency initiatives. With my new manager basically lying all the time to upper management about how the development was going when we were drowning. Then devs (myself included) started to jump ship.
I’m still in FinTech now. FinTech has a way different vibe than a traditional bank. At least where I am at now is more engineer driven while the bank was driven by a bunch of “Six Sigma black belts” with MBAs and not a clue how to build software.
I’d consider working for a bank again. Like any employer it often comes down to what team you are on and if your manager is good and not a complete tool bag.
brainrotbro@reddit
I require at least 5% ownership of the company to have startup energy.
cametumbling@reddit (OP)
Lol fair!!
poipoipoi_2016@reddit
I mean, it's not 5%.
Don't be a founding engineer unless you're going for your resume. It does actually look godly on the resume though.
A couple stages past founding engineer is looking at 0.1-0.3% (but is also Series B and there will be an exit here).
Anything past that is just called a scale-up and we start looking at dollars instead of points.
PhillyThrowaway1908@reddit
Founding engineer is the biggest crock of shit out there. Somehow created by business types to come up with a way to not have someone technical enough on the founding team to make the MVP.
chocolatesmelt@reddit
Unless you have a fair bit of equity, “startup energy” is just another way of saying extra efficient/free labor. We in the US need to set barriers on what we’re willing to do with our labor time and stop undercutting each other for competition to secure roles. I know, easier said than done. A large national union would certainly help orchestrate this.
opx22@reddit
There are plenty of places you can work for a year to mentally recover. Smaller non-tech companies tend to respect the fact that you work to live as opposed to living to work. Spend time in that environment - either you’ll feel recharged after a year or so and move back into the kind of environment you think you should be in or you’ll realize that your mentality towards work (having to have “startup energy”) isn’t right for you.
basskittens@reddit
I've done the startup thing 3 times so far. I'm middle aged now, I absolutely DO NOT have the energy for it. No shame. 10 years ago was my last one and I was already over it then. Everybody wanted to go for drinks every day after work (where they would inevitably just keep discussing work). I wanted to go home and play with my kids.
I prefer the big corporation lifestyle honestly. I find bureaucracy and a well defined org chart comforting. "Yes, we have a process for this. It's 10 pages long and takes a month to get anything done, but it's documented." I like that. Give me that. Also the fact that the checks are very likely to clear on payday is a point that cannot be overstated.
My advice is find somewhere you can coast, and burrow in like a tick. The world's probably going to end soon anyway so you might as well enjoy the ride before we're all knifing each other in the streets over a roll of toilet paper.
siterite@reddit
Heh, my lack of 'startup energy' is one of the reasons I gave for leaving a startup after 4 months. Having really good boundaries from the very beginning would be a necessity if you go that route. Ask lots of questions and see if you can grill a future coworker about their day to day so you don't get any surprises.
AppropriateSpell5405@reddit
Startup energy is code for leeching the life out of your soul.
throwawaycape@reddit
Ebbs and flows maybe? If it makes you feel any better, I was kicked out of my CS masters for bad grades and almost quit programming altogether. I was burnt out and the job market wasn't helping.
A year later I'm back in my program on a research project I'm really enjoying. On top of that I just released my first open source project.
Sometimes it might help to let yourself hate it and be burnt out, and go do something else until you feel excited about it again.
throwawaycape@reddit
Ebbs and flows maybe? If it makes you feel any better, I was kicked out of my CS masters for bad grades and almost quit programming altogether. I was burnt out and the job market wasn't helping.
A year later I'm back in my program on a research project I'm really enjoying. On top of that I just released my first open source project.
Sometimes it might help to let yourself hate it and be burnt out, and go do something else until you feel excited about it again.
MoreRespectForQA@reddit
9/10 startups crash and burn and after going through about 9 startups and witnessing a 1/10 event where employees were screwed out of their options im surprised anybody has extra energy for a startup.
tom-smykowski-dev@reddit
Sorry to hear you burned out. What helps with that is shift focus to outside of the work, and taking care of yourself. The drain&dump culture throws people into burnout easily. Having boundaries helps, and also shifting focus outside the work. If it comes to work, it's not always fatigue, but rather also not doing what person believes in, is motivated to do. It is the body, soul and mind saying you have better purpose in life, and pushing you into the right direction. So what you may discover is that if you find, even a startup, aligned with your ambitions and views, you'll gain back all the energy you lacked lately. It's still in you, you just need a right environment to get back access to it. Wishing you the best! Take care!
Kavalry1026@reddit
I'm probably not as experienced as you, but i know a good amount of stuff relating to change of mindset. You not being 'motivated' enough tells me either you have good enough savings and hence your mind is biased to feel safe, or you have stopped doing stuff that makes you strong, like physical exercises, coding practice or reading new stuff in tech etc. Also something that's keeping you 'scared' could be that you are probably desiring something unrealistic to your current circumstances. Hence, you probably feel that you clearly can't achieve it, hence the fear. Now I'm not saying all of these apply to you, but I'm sure at least two of the below mentioned stuff should apply. 1. Good enough savings, which makes you feel safe for some time. 2. Stopped experimenting or more like getting your hands dirty into newer tech(voluntarily inviting vulnerability by doing something you don't know) and/or challenging physical exercise. 3. Extreme desires which are mostly crippling and subconsciously draining you even if you probably have the potential.
Now if any of these apply, try doing the opposite to get back to not being/feeling lame.
I hope this helps.
cametumbling@reddit (OP)
These aren't true for me but thank you for your reply!
Kavalry1026@reddit
No worries at all! I hope you feel the curiosity and excitement for future soon without the fear of failure! All the best!
ButterscotchTea6540@reddit
As a reader this was very helpful for me, it felt like someone understood some part of what I was going through a few years ago at age 29 (a different situation than OP). 1 and 3 were very true for me at that point, and 2 was mostly true technically (I was compensating by exercising a lot, physically, trying to get my motivation back). I've been out of the field for a few years now, I will slowly build up some basics back and then try to do your #2 in your second paragraph. It's tough to try to learn something for its own sake sometimes!
Kavalry1026@reddit
Hey I'm glad that resonates with you, hope my suggestions help you, and also I hope you find your own solutions that work for you. All the best!
bobaduk@reddit
Scale ups are fun, series A-B, old enough to have product market fit, and to have a sustainability sized team, but small enough for you to have a ton of impact.
That's usually the point in time where orgs need to rethink their architecture, so there's a lot of opportunities to learn system design and practise large scale change.
I do know the feeling. I think my current gig might be my last startup. I'm 42, and have worked in startups almost exclusively since I was 19. It's been fun, two of them (so far!) got to IPO, and I've worked with some great engineers who were passionate about their work, but the urgency is draining.
gimmeslack12@reddit
To talk to start ups and hearing about their "ideas" and you being not that excited because you've been there done that a few times over makes sense to me.
I mean... a lot of SWE is kind of the same thing over and over again.
cametumbling@reddit (OP)
I mean the ones I'm talking to are great ideas, honestly. I just don't have any oomph.
poipoipoi_2016@reddit
Go into the gym until you've hit the next plate on the big lifts too.
Then you stick Slack on a secondary work phone and very publicly submit exactly one PR every night right before you go to bed.
You now look like a god. You're also performing like a god too since you actually have sleep and long-term sleep deprivation destroys your brain.
cametumbling@reddit (OP)
This is not bad advice, thanks. I got a dog and that's probably impacting my sleep, I haven't felt well rested in a few weeks. And I've always sucked at presenteeism, really need to lock in what you say regarding PRs.