Company wants to sell an App i wrote for internal use.
Posted by JoeyFromMoonway@reddit | sysadmin | View on Reddit | 125 comments
We are a smb company living in a rural area. We are hosting some small websites for clients, nothing too much, so bandwidth usually is not that much of an issue (500mb/s fiber on location).
Everything else is handled via LTE and thats where i got an idea: write an app in C/C++ that actually lets me bond 3-4 LTE WANs together and use them aggregated. (I know that many of those apps exist, i just wanted to try how it would be viable) - and it works flawlessly, is easy to set up and im pretty happy about it (even has a really nice dashboard, showing traffic etc.)
Company now asked me to actually create a release version of it, as they want to sell it (basically saying it is a work product).
Rant over. This just sucks. Nothing in my contract says that. Also i didnt even only develop it in company. It was not even their idea.
Gunzbngbng@reddit
You could use this to advance yourself in the company and your career.
dunck0@reddit
Generally IP developed for a company, using the resources of the company and/or on the company's time, is the property of the company.
AdmiralJTK@reddit
I’m a lawyer and exactly this. You don’t own what you made on company time using company resources while under the direction of the company.
OP doesn’t even have a right to feel aggrieved here. This is just fair. If you want to monetise your own work then do it at home using your own equipment, and then your employer can pound sand.
one_man_band1234@reddit
just a question. What if he has done that at home, outside of his working hours? How can a company proof that he did it during company time and on company resources?
who_you_are@reddit
This is the case you should be fine.
However, the company may still try his luck by telling you used knowledge acquired from the company - even if it isn't IP or confidential knowledge...
sweeney669@reddit
It’d be pretty easy for them to tell if he did any development on a work issued computer and that would be a done deal right there.
JoeyFromMoonway@reddit (OP)
But doesn't that need to be actually be written in the contract?
Legitimate-Break-740@reddit
You're sure it isn't? Any contract I've seen includes a clause like that.
sobrique@reddit
Mine had a clause about stuff made on personal time and resources too.
But they removed that when I challenged it.
Not that anything I make on personal time is a valuable product or anything, I just wanted to be able to distribute the slightly useful junk I created.
But it is indeed a common "land grab" in contract terms.
who_you_are@reddit
That clause can be challenged in court if I remember. The issue is if you build something that could be somehow close to what your business does (or with technology they use).
They will argue you used knowledge from the company.
And here I'm not talking about any IP or very hard to get knowledge/documentation...
jews4beer@reddit
I had a similar thing happen to me once where the company was wanting me to also sign over anything I did on my personal time. I challenged it and they hired someone else lol.
J9993@reddit
Pretty sure this is the whole plot to the show silicon valley
ReputationNo8889@reddit
Here in Germany its written inside the Country Law's so no need to put it in a contract. Only if you want to be excempt or have some other non default stipulations.
Activity_Commercial@reddit
When I worked in the us our lawyer made us add this clause and one about patents. It's not as straightforward as people make it sound in this thread.
BlueHatBrit@reddit
If there's nothing about IP ownership in your contract, then go to a lawyer and ask for their advice. I'd be incredibly surprised if there aren't sections about it in your contract though, it's pretty standard. It may be that it's part of a local law instead though depending on where you live.
In the case where they really don't own the IP, you need to assert your ownership pretty swiftly or it'll get complicated and expensive. But I'd be really surprised if you do own it.
You should also be careful of clauses about how disputes are settled. In some countries it's common to have a clause which basically says "during a dispute between us, you will delegate to our lawyers".
TheMediaBear@reddit
yeah, in the UK I've had to have clauses put into all my work contracts about IP/Copyright as I also run a photography business on the side, so had it explicitly worded to say it only applied to work related stuff done within work time
BlueHatBrit@reddit
Same happens to me as well (also in the UK). I've started asking them to word it in a more restrictive way as most default to claiming ownership over anything and everything you make while employed. I ask that it be limited to company time and/or company resources as the marker, with the obvious non-compete restrictions. Then I'm still free to work on side projects myself.
JoeyFromMoonway@reddit (OP)
No, there is really nothing about IP being handled in any way. I was hired as a Sysadmin, they maybe didn't expect me to create IP in any way.
BlueHatBrit@reddit
I'd be quite cautious going up against your employer on this one, even if a lawyer agrees that you have a case for ownership.
Right now they seem to believe it's theirs, so you asserting ownership will feel like you're trying to take something from them. If it was done on company time or resources, they may have a strong case against you as well.
Given you said there are lots of competitors in the market anyway, you should question whether it would actually be worth anything to you. In the situation where you did "win" you may find yourself labelled as a nuisance.
I'd probably go down the path of asking for a pay rise in like with a developer salary, or some kind of one-off bonus. That'll be easier for them to swallow while still accounting for your interests.
But of course, it's one to take to a lawyer first and see what they say. I wouldn't wait though, the more work you do on it which is requested by them, the weaker your claim will become... I'd assume. I am not a lawyer.
codeshane@reddit
A lawyer might answer differently, but if you made it on company time and machines then used it for work, it's either their IP or your going to have an uphill battle proving you weren't committing fraud or some other crimes by using their equipment while tricking them into paying you for working on your independent project that you only considered doing because of your employment there.
Maybe ask for a specific agreement for a portion of the rights, patent etc, or at least a pay increase if you're going to be a developer now. Find out how they really feel about you.
sobrique@reddit
I would shoot for royalties personally. A small percentage won't look that fierce, but acknowledges value in proportion to commercial success and business revenues.
Unnamed-3891@reddit
No. That’s the default/reasonable expectation. It doesn’t need to be separately spelled out.
The_Dunk@reddit
No, if you are being paid for your time all of your outputs during that paid time are the property of the entity paying you.
Even when not covered in contract arguing the opposite seems unlikely go pass scrutiny.
The_Dunk@reddit
No, if you are being paid for your time all of your outputs during that paid time are the property of the entity paying you.
Even when not covered in contract arguing the opposite seems unlikely to pass scrutiny.
speedyundeadhittite@reddit
No, you're worker for hire. Anything you do is owned by the company. If they're feeling cute, they might cite you in a patent.
frymaster@reddit
no.
There often are things written into the contract. That's mainly to try to head off any problems by making things explicit
BrainWaveCC@reddit
Nope. That is the default. If there are any exceptions, those need to be written into a contract.
That said, it's usually in any HR policy handbook.
turbokid@reddit
No, if you created at work they paid you for your time while creating it so it’s theirs.
Just because its software doesn’t make it any different than other jobs. You don’t get to eat the hamburgers at McDonald’s because you put them together.
raip@reddit
Nope. At least not in the US. It's called work product.
mrpel22@reddit
Silicon Valley has a whole plot line about IP.
TopGlad4560@reddit
Agreed.
JimmyGz@reddit
This is what I was under the impression of. I’m not not sure it needs a special contract but it’s written into our onboarding contract.
Rex_Luscus@reddit
Just to add, I don't know if your company is Moonway, but if it is, you might want to edit your alias before complaining about your employer.
Rex_Luscus@reddit
Back in the 90s I developed a program in Clipper and dBase which created schedules of work for property repairs and improvements, and calculated the amount of repair/improvement grant applicable using quite complex rules, while working for my local council. The vast majority of the work was done at home in the evenings on my home PC. Because some of the development took place at work, the Council owned it. They sold a few copies to other LAs for £x00 each - it was pretty niche software. The money went to the Council, but it went into a budget I controlled, so used it to buy a digital video camera for work which I got to play with at weekends and holidays.
I didn't feel like challenging my employer to a fight I was bound to lose over a few hundred quid; I'd recommend that you learn from this experience, should you do any further development. You might ask if they'd be prepared to give you credit or royalties, but don't be disappointed if they say no.
GO-Away_1234@reddit
Does it really work “flawlessly”? TCP doesn’t like the client IP changing with each packet but I guess you could solve this using a proxy… still messy.
wrosecrans@reddit
There's a couple of ways to approach it. But OP mentioned use cases like hosting websites. If you have many clients accessing one server, you can just do it as load balancing across the pipes with any given client staying in one pipe for their connection duration. As long as you have more clients than pipes, you can use all the bandwidth available, so it doesn't really matter that no one client is using more than one pipe of bandwidth. Dunno if that's the approach OP is using, but it's basically what LACP does.
If you control DNS, you can just return the IP that goes down whatever is the least busy pipe whenever somebody looks up the server, and clients will think there's "4 servers" round-robbining that host name if there's actually 4 network connections to one server with different IP's. It's a deep rabbit hole, but the simplest versions aren't too nuts to get right without breaking clients.
GO-Away_1234@reddit
Just like LACP you’re never going to get the bandwidth of all 4 streams in one connection, I just think it’s not a real story…. pfsense/opnsense + 4 lte modems + a proxy/vpn that’s handling outbound NAT would be able to give u a similar setup
wrosecrans@reddit
That's exactly what I said?
GO-Away_1234@reddit
Yeah I’m agreeing with you
wrosecrans@reddit
Sorry. I may have misread the tone after one too many dumb reddit arguments recently, lol.
GO-Away_1234@reddit
All good, Reddit is toxic and low intellect since their IPO but i like to think the sysadmin subreddit keeps it technical and chill.
InfraScaler@reddit
alwayshasbeen.jpg
JoeyFromMoonway@reddit (OP)
Works with a integrated proxy - i spent almost a year programming that on the side. It's nowhere near carrier bonding, but it's good for rural areas, where internet sucks more than some establishments employees do..
xueimelb@reddit
> on the side
So what you're learning from this is that outside work time you should only do work things that benefit you. I've got no problem learning new skills off hours that I'll use on the job because I take those skills with me if I need to leave for a new job. You won't get me to build or troubleshoot work things off hours though.
GO-Away_1234@reddit
Love it, I was in a mentoring session today and warned my Jr about how the company owns everything you make 😢
Miserygut@reddit
This is why I only do my worst work while being paid. B)
/s
Numzane@reddit
They said its bonded. So the traffic is tunneled to a server. Outside services see only the IP of the server
llDemonll@reddit
Was it done on company equipment? Was it done on company time? If either of those are true they have some/all ownership of it. You should consult with a lawyer.
JoeyFromMoonway@reddit (OP)
Only a few hours of company time were spent (mostly finetuning WAN).
AceHighFlush@reddit
You get nothing. You lose. Good day, sir!
Sorry, IP law is not fair. The best chance you have is for the company to agree not to push you for it if you refuse to provide the source code. You may have to leave your job and hope they decide it's not worth legal action.
JoeyFromMoonway@reddit (OP)
I wanna meet up with a lawyer tomorrow but i do not have high hopes. This is also not worth losing the job over, as me leaving would put the team in jeopardy - so i'll just accept the L, maintain that and move on. Thanks :)
InfraScaler@reddit
Meh, if it helps giving you any peace of mind, they're going to sell exactly zero units of your software, and if they were to magically sell some it'll be mostly due to some mad sales skills which you do not posses, so at the end of the day you would have nothing either way.
TheDisapprovingBrit@reddit
Legal situation aside, what's your actual concern here? Do you have plans to sell it, or do you just not want them cashing in on your work?
Is the product even ready for distribution to a wider audience? Your starting point should be to point out that it was developed as an internal tool, and there's a vast world of difference between an internal tool and something ready for distribution and the liability that comes with it.
Depending on your abilities, you can either use this as a springboard to get a new role where you're exclusively managing this tool (at a considerably negotiated rate and job title change), or you tell them the tool isn't intended for that, you can't support it for such a use, and they'd need to hire developers to write the whole thing from the ground up if that's what they want to do.
ThePathOfKami@reddit
for real, like that could be a great bonus for OPs career.
also what a lot seem to dismiss, is is creating such a tool ( basically Dev) in your job description ? if not you can just hand them your last commit and tell them if the want to sell it and profit of it they can finish the development themselfs.
but yeah if possible OP should go with the boosted career option
kirk11111@reddit
This is all you need to read right here
Finn_Storm@reddit
As an aside, what's your plan if you get hit by a bus? Leaving may not be as simple, but accidents are everywhere and it can still put your team in jeopardy
maldax_@reddit
ok, but they are asking for a release worthy version. That's a different ball game and as no one else knows how it works I would guess that gives you some negational power
koliat@reddit
Perhaps one way to defend yourself is to- are you a developer ? Can you feel professionally responsible for any security flaws? Perhaps if company thinks they own it and your country law says so too, make them aware they should conduct regular security assessments. Also the binaries should be signed and you need code signing certificate for that. Just throw them some obstacles hoping they can as well give up as - like you said - it’s just nice tech but nothing groundbreaking
hymie0@reddit
Upvote for the Willy Wonka quote.
InfraScaler@reddit
Ah man you should've watched the Sillicon Valley series, where most of the comments here get their knowledge in IP law from :-P
Nevermind04@reddit
Then they are free to do whatever they want with their app.
BrainWaveCC@reddit
Anything > 0 makes it theirs.
mrbiggbrain@reddit
Seeing a lawyer is absolutely the right choice as you have put yourself in a complex situation.
TV and Movies would have you believe that if you have spent a single second of company time or resources on it then they own it. It almost seems natural, but that is not how the law works.
There needs to be a determination of if the software is considered work product. And not even just work product, but if it was work product for hire.
Let's say that I work for an auto shop, I work on cars doing various repairs and noticed a particular repair takes longer then I think it can. I invent a new tool that can speed up the process and cut the job time in half. I tinker with it at home, I try it out at work, eventually I have a working product.
Does the Autoshop own the rights to that tool or do I? I do. I did work for hire for them (Fixing cars), that was my job and any work product I did to that end would be theirs. But any work product I did in development of the tool is still mine.
On the other hand if I was hired by a company to design tools, then my work product for that company is designing tools. Any tools I design are theirs, that is what they hired me to do.
Now it's possible that the company is in a better position then you to market and sell the product. If so it might be possible to simply provide them with a license to sell the product, perhaps exclusively, for royalties.
Sinister-Mephisto@reddit
For those of your reading / listening. If you wanna make money. And you are like this guy where you’ve made a real product / with real value that the the company desperately needs but is out of scope of your daily responsibilities. Develop it on your own time off hours, develop it on your own equipment/ hardware / own personal repository. So the company has no claim that you made it for them or with their equipment or on their time.
If you do that, offer to sell them a license.
Corporate America doesn’t give a fuck about you and there’s a good chance this guy won’t see 10 percent of the value of whatever this brought to the company; be it through a huge raise, a life changing bonus or major promotion.
If you have a real; honest to god product that doesn’t exist, or fits the needs of your company or business sector. Don’t let them take that from you.
If your job is to carry rocks to a location, and you’ve just invented the wheelbarrow because you’re sick of hauling rocks, and you do that on company time or equipment, now they just invented the wheelbarrow, not you.
Ssakaa@reddit
And, if you even discuss the problem you end up solving (let alone "it would be neat if this tool existed") with company people and/or on company time, you potentially did part of that development with company resources.
ReputationNo8889@reddit
I even spun up a completely own Azure Tenant for a side project because i didnt want any corporate claims to the software.
mrlinkwii@reddit
just to note depending on contract signed they might have clauses basically saying any program even if done on perosnal time is company IP
Garasc@reddit
That's the agreement everyone had to sign where I work, though generally speaking if you go to the IP office and tell them what you made or are working on, if its unrelated to your job then they'll grant you a release waiver and just give you a stack of papers to sign stating that you aren't using any company resources and it won't cause any conflict of interests and so on.
ledow@reddit
"Absolutely. Here are my new pay demands, and I would like this job title and these benefits."
I have been in that same position. I wrote some code to automate a "firelist" i.e. when a fire alarm happens, it builds a simple quick list of people who should be on site, emails it out, and prints it on a thermal receipt printer in several different locations. The system we were using simply didn't allow such without a huge expensive module that only printed on A4 paper and waiting for a laser printer to start up isn't really very "fire-safe".
It worked perfectly, the production of the complete firelist and actually coming out of the thermal printer often happened BEFORE the fire alert sound. The alert would be picked up by the system from the access control (which was linked to the fire system), it would then query lots of databases, produce the firelist, send it to two thermal printers at either end of the site and email it BEFORE the fire system actually activated the audible alert (first step was a relay click for it to signal access control to open doors, then my firelist would print out, then the actual alert sound would happen). The print would be completed within seconds, before anyone could even react and stand up, and staff would grab it on their way out, take it to the evacuation point, it was split by section so they could tear it up and give it to managers who could then roll-call their own staff and see who was in, who was supposed to be in, who's been in and then left, etc. etc. etc. Multiple paper copies meant there was always a firelist no matter where the fire was, and email was added later so people could literally just check people off from the phone AND provide accountability (the emails were backed up, emailed off-site, etc.)
Everyone loved it and it became part of our processes.
To the point that THE COMPANY WHO SUPPLIED THE SYSTEM wanted to buy it off me. My workplace had even complained to the company once and said they shouldn't have to be writing their own, and the company said "no problem, we have a client who's solved that problem". Yes, that client was US. They offered to buy it from US to supply it to US (at cost, obviously). But we weren't the only client they were recommending it to.
I refused. Sorry, I'm not taking that kind of responsibility for something used at other client sites where it will get misused or run into quirks that we don't have, etc. I'm not having my name on code that could be blamed for something I'm not around to ensure will work. I told them no.
But if I had been inclined? I'd want that written into my job description to my satisfaction, I'd want a relevant increase in salary (and decrease in other responsibilities, or are you suggesting that I can just do another job inside my working day to your satisfaction without the quality of my work dropping? Are you suggesting I'm idle enough in work to just do that? No, I want other things taken away if you're going to lump me with new responsibilities), and recognition that I have just created a new, unique, in-demand product that's obviously good quality and that nobody else on the staff could manage that?
P.S. Many, many years before when I was hired, I entered into a conversation mid-negotiation of my original contract. Before I was even employed, while nobody was under any obligation, I demanded changes to my contract. One of which was: You have a clause which suggests that you take ownership of the copyright of anything I create, ever, including the stuff during work hours. I want that absolutely clarified for my purposes because I write software outside of work and you will have no claim to that. And while I'm there, software that I create in work won't be your exclusive copyright either. You'll have permission to use and extend it and I will grant you a perpetual licence to that code, but the copyright will remain with me. At the time, they thought nothing of it and specifically worded an exception for my contract which I checked remained present at all times. It was still there after that software was made, and when I later left. So, technically, that software still belongs to ME, not the company. Foresight is a very useful thing.
Ssakaa@reddit
Your example, I would absolutely have sold to them... with "this is sold as-is, no support from us past the hand-over by", and no additional cost to "gain" their support for that module going forward terms attached. Obviously passed through legal on your end et. al.
ledow@reddit
Nope, I wasn't having my name on something that might - with someone else messing about with it - have resulted in an actual death.
houseswappa@reddit
First Rodeo is always the most brutal
Ok-Juggernaut-4698@reddit
This is pretty standard.
wrosecrans@reddit
(Emphasis mine.) So it was at least partly developed on company time or with company resources? Sounds like a shitshow of rights if you tried to argue it's not theirs, honestly. Working on work-related side projects can be a whole things. At a bigger company, you'd probably need to get the project cleared through legal or something before starting if you wanted some sort of separation of ownership from your employer.
Frankly, I am surprised you see it as a negative. Sounds like they like a thing you made for a work problem. Maybe just take the win?
And if you want to do something like in the future, lesson learned, you know to get clarity on rights and ownership before it's in prod.
NoMansSkyWasAlright@reddit
Right? Unless OP was planning to market this themselves, then this just seems like good leverage to negotiate a pretty steep pay raise or three.
ReputationNo8889@reddit
I would just ask for reinbursement of my personal time at a slightly higher hourly rate.
BrainWaveCC@reddit
OP, since you are going to speak to an attorney, that's good. You will likely get a lot of information for now and later.
But for future reference, the key points to maintaining ownership rights are:
Don't do it with their laptops, using their code repositories, stored in their Azure instance, etc. Do it cleanly on your own time -- without any corporate code libraries.
Make sure you keep solid timestamped documentation, and pursue copyrights early.
ReputationNo8889@reddit
And, dont deploy it on company resources without explicit acknowledgement that deployment does not transfer ownership.
JC0100101001000011@reddit
Instead of burning bridges have you tried asking for some monetary return/profit share/bonus etc?
Foddley@reddit
I know it's a different place and a different time, but this reminds me of the story of Tetris.
Ziggista@reddit
There is an ISP here in Australia selling this kind of stuff. Fusion Broadband. Was working well for slow ass ADSL and ADSL2 or having static IP in front of things like CGNat and other crap 4g services.
Sanchez_87_@reddit
Everyone has covered off why you don’t own it - sure you get the point.
What you can do now is use this to negotiate better pay moving forward. If they’re going to sell this app, they’ll want it to be maintained / upgraded. If they’re now bringing in more money because of it, it should be easy negotiating for better pay
Zer0CoolXI@reddit
If you developed it on company time (being paid or not), and/or using company computer(s), and/or using company software then the company owns it.
Otherwise it could be said you were stealing from the company…either you stole time from them by getting paid to work on something not for them or you stole resources (in the form of compute/software licenses) to do non work related work.
nikonel@reddit
I hate to tell you this, but if you were working for the company, you were on their dime and were getting paid by the company and you wrote that tool for the company while they are paying you, it’s their tool and they can do whatever they want with it, and they don’t have to share with you. That is the law.
It’s their IP. Now if you’re nice and you have a good rapport with the owner, and if they like you, you MIGHT be able to cit yourself into a piece of the action.
If you take the code and start selling it to the public, the company can sue you and they will win.
Go read the art of the deal, be nice, be cool, try to get a little something extra for it.
TipIll3652@reddit
I leave any development at my house and before I even think about introducing it to my job I licence it under the GPL. Now from there if necessary I will make modifications at work, however, it will be under a forked branch. If I'm asked to do something at work then they get the bare minimum for my job function. They're probably going to close the source anyway and I'm just a big FOSS guy personally.
Is this foolproof? Probably not, I'm not a lawyer and I don't remember everything from my legal studies in IT 101 class. But does it make me feel better? Yeah.
Grouchy_Whole752@reddit
I’m a consultant and have been put in similar corners, I do hosting and have a specific setup for publishing an app over the internet that I developed for myself. Company I consult for wanted it for free and threatened to more less to stop doing business with me and the ass that wanted it told upper management it was out of the box functionality so it shouldn’t be something they have to pay for but yet the company that makes the software makes you pay for the feature. I laid all that out to management and they backed off. I’m not providing things that would compete with myself being a hosting provider, no other reason to need that info. Essentially it’s a custom web.config that you can’t create inside IIS and manual edits to application config that again can’t be done within IIS to allow the application to work over the Internet that I figured out on my own for my own business and the company that makes the software figured out the same thing and charges for the info. Business is full of slime balls just waiting to screw you. However if you’re an employee and you made something on company time then the business essentially paid you to create it but if you created it at home, didn’t use company time and just aloud them to use it then I’d say you got feet to stand on. For me I’m a 1099 consultant, I charge when working with a customer. Outside of that I’m on my own and I work with several companies as a 1099 consultant and provide services for those companies and their clients so when they ask for something very specific to something only needed for hosting then you know it’s them seeing if they can cut you out for free and you can go somewhere else with that bs.
illarionds@reddit
You wrote it on work time, on work equipment, and got paid to do it. Where do you think they are in the wrong here exactly?
Line, if you'd done it at home, on your own time, and given it to them for free - then you'd have an argument.
But as it is, this isn't the company "betraying" you in any way.
stromm@reddit
So what you already created is their product.
You have the choice on if you modify it for external sales.
But you’ll also be choosing any results of that choice.
Barrerayy@reddit
I'm not sure what you want out of this? Anything you create for company use is company property. This is a fairly standard employment clause. It's within their right to use it as they wish. Whether or not they can make you work on it is another topic, as it can be argued that it's out of your job function
divad1196@reddit
The law will depend on the country, but that's really common. There are even projects that were 100% developed outside of work and not even used at work, but then the company still claimed it.
I think you will be loosing money with a lawyer but I wish you good luck. But you weren't gonna sell your solution right?
Golhec@reddit
You should argue your case for a bonus, promotion or increase in salary but there is nothing they are doing wrong here and involving any lawyers is just going to waste your money, time and upset your employeers. You are contracted to them, built it on their time and their equipment. Your original intention of what you built it for doesn't matter. This is very basic contract law and pretty much universal across each country.
Zealousideal_Yard651@reddit
Workproduct laws. Anything you create on company resources and time, unless otherwise specifies is company property. This includes IP like software.
If you did any of the work for creating this on company time and property then your in an uphill battle.
Reverent@reddit
IP wise you don't have a leg to stand on.
Negotiation wise, you got plenty to stand on. I wouldn't go the "lawyer" path. I would go the "oh suddenly I'm indispensable" path.
If your product is getting sold, you are a commodity. Start playing hardball.
Moist_Lawyer1645@reddit
Easy way to dispelled this. Say the following. You developed and tested this at home, you then adapted it at work as you believed it would be beneficial to the business, essentially giving the business license to use it, not sell it. Be clear that it was first developed at home.
IdiosyncraticBond@reddit
Congrats, you can now bump your salary as you've become a developer /s
knixx@reddit
You built it on their time and resources (even if it’s only a small percentage), so they unfortunately have some say in the matter.
Honestly I don’t know what you are upset about. If you leave they lose the brains behind the project.
Get a salary increase and a bonus and work with them to make a great product.
Dont-PM-me-nudes@reddit
Post the code here so we can make a better judgement! :)
speedyundeadhittite@reddit
"Oh, the code is open source in Git, you wanted it private, my bad".
OTOH, best way to get fired.
GO-Away_1234@reddit
Instructions unclear check ur dms UwU
Rain_ShiNao@reddit
Well, at least you got "improved it" when you're in a new company or something. Don't do any major updates on it, and release a new version that improvise on the version as your own?
mrlinkwii@reddit
depends on the contract signed , some contracts specifically say any work done even in down time belongs with the company
Warm-Reporter8965@reddit
I'm confused, your title makes it sound like they're stealing it from you to tell but your description says they want you to voluntarily work on a release version.
saysjuan@reddit
Who would actually pay for this if there is no patent? There’s already a handful of companies that do this already like https://speedify.com/ that shares an open source version along with several other projects.
Who would they be selling this to?
nico282@reddit
How it's local web hosting still a thing? A cloud VPS will be cheaper than just the LTE links, with more bandwidth and less quirks.
GO-Away_1234@reddit
And more bills, less iops and more rust (rusted on to the platform).
georgiomoorlord@reddit
Tell them thanks for the idea and sell it under your ownership not theirs
mediweevil@reddit
and be prepared to be sued for something the OP presumably developed on company time and is therefore theirs by virtue of employment.
georgiomoorlord@reddit
Depends on the law in that particular area
mediweevil@reddit
it does indeed, but I find that most companies rapidly settle communally on that sort of thing because their legal teams monitor professional development, they move firms, they talk. it's the same reason why every HR department is more or less indistinguishable from any other.
BrainWaveCC@reddit
Which particular area are you thinking about, because from what the OP has already indicated, every part of the US would be unfavorable to that action on their part.
Extreme-Prize-2829@reddit
Can't tell without knowing your jurisdiction
JoeyJoeC@reddit
I'm stuck in a similar hole. I'm officially 2nd/3rd line support but I am left working on a huge order management system for a client. I don't want to be doing this anymore.
DoTheThingNow@reddit
Using 3-4 LTE cellular connections as if it were one connection.
hobovalentine@reddit
This is no different than software engineers writing code to maintain or create a product and the code that you write is not owned by you but by the company.
You're bringing value to the company so I don't see why this is looked upon as a bad thing, maybe try to get a bigger bonus if the app sells?
prodsec@reddit
Did you create a product on company resources while on company time?
Also, wtf are you talking about ? Explain how that work
NightOfTheLivingHam@reddit
if it was done on company time and on company servers, you're SOL.
Decent_Cheesecake362@reddit
You’re not using them aggregated.
That’s not how TCP/IP stack works. You can’t have L7 bonding traffic together that operates below itself. Is this code written into a router/hardware or a pure app?
Plus, things like this already exist (cradlepoint,peplink)
Idk how they could sell this
Having said all that, do you mean “aggregate” as in a 3 option ECMP?
mtwdante@reddit
Well.. start developing the app but refractor it to only be a shell and for it to use external services that are free and do all the heavy work. Those heavy services should be yours, personally created at home, and have a license for them. Now, let them sell the app and if its successful you can start asking for money for using your services. If they dont want.. you close their access and the app breaks. Seen this been done twice already.
Floresian-Rimor@reddit
You did it on the side but using their resources? Let them have it but claim the overtime.
harrywwc@reddit
as many have said: (1) check your contract; and (2) contact an IP lawyer.
loowig@reddit
it does suck. but it is definetely company property. if they're nice you get a raise or even nicer a percentage from sales of that piece of software.
other than that your only option is to deny creating the release version and leave. but the app that already exists is still company property and someone else could finish the job.
deleting the code would get you legal trouble big time.
thesharptoast@reddit
Obvious this is really more a legal thing than an IT thing but certainly in the UK if you can reasonably prove that it was written by you for your own personal user or distribution it belongs to you.
However if you wrote it for your organisation they likely own the IP, depending on the exact wording of your contract.
NAL obviously but it may be worth seeking legal advice in this case.
thesharptoast@reddit
Obvious this is really more a legal thing than an IT thing but certainly in the UK if you can reasonably prove that it was written by you for your own personal use or distribution it belongs to you.
However if you wrote it for your organisation they likely own the IP, depending on the exact wording of your contract.
NAL obviously but it may be worth seeking legal advice in this case.
fubes2000@reddit
Did you develop it on company time and/or with company resources? Or was it wholly developed in your spare time using your own resources?
Because in the case of the former they likely own it per your employment contract.
BloomerzUK@reddit
Check your contract for anything about intellectual property.