Brazil will respond to 50% tariff with ‘reciprocity,’ says President da Silva
Posted by ObjectiveObserver420@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 64 comments
HzPips@reddit
The worst part of it all are the far-right politicians celebrating our country being tariffed. Those guys are willing to sell our country for some pocket change
chatterwrack@reddit
It’s insane that he’s using tariffs to exert political control over another country. This is such an abuse of power.
HzPips@reddit
Thats just standard USA foreing policy for the last 100 years
onespiker@reddit
In reality that's not really uniqe to the USA either it has been the international way of a lot of foreign policy for a long time.
kauefr@reddit
At least it's only TACO tariffs, not a coup or a "they have WMDs" invasion.
AlexanderTheIronFist@reddit
In Homer Simpson voice: "Not a coup or a 'they have WMDs' invasion, so far".
Thangoman@reddit
This will probably hurt them in the next elections, 50% is huge
Aenjeprekemaluci@reddit
Millei will also be hurt soon with his Trump affiliation no?
Thangoman@reddit
Not quite, the tariffs will be max 10% and we dont trade with the US that much (we produce a lot of the stuff the US already has, and we try to produce the stuff the US produces locally)
Aenjeprekemaluci@reddit
But how is it under Millei? I hear conflicting stuff.
Thangoman@reddit
In terms of international politics, we are licking Uncle Sam´s and Israels´s ass
In terms of everything else, the reports you will mostly get are from Milei´s voterbase. The opposition isnt as present online. The economy is awful, inflation is lower but the government is setting up a financial timebomb. Services are starting to fail because the government has stopped all construction, unemployment is growing, our trade balance is terrible, factories are doing terribly, salaries are frozen.
Aenjeprekemaluci@reddit
Looks quite grim... Is opposition any good or not?
rainbowcarpincho@reddit
Argentina was heading towards a cliff before Milei. Apparently buying votes with inflationary policy isn't sustainable. I know it's easy to apply a left=good right=bad rubic we have from our own country, but Argentina is the real life strawman conservatives make of socialist policy.
Moikanyoloko@reddit
Its also the real strawman of neoliberal policy right now, specially with the submissive foreign policy and gutting social services of all sorts, which makes the entire situation horrible for Argentina, faced with two bad choices.
Honestly, it'll take a functional and moderate reformist government to make the country better, not some random radical firebrand like Milei.
onespiker@reddit
That were thing Argentina already did though.
Argentina is so debt ridden that it doesn't really have a choice regardless.
rainbowcarpincho@reddit
Agreed. I'm just cautioning against assuming that because Milei is bad, the Kircheners must be good.
Southern-Chain-6485@reddit
Milei is buying votes with foreign exchange policy. It's not sustainable either.
rainbowcarpincho@reddit
Feel free to explain the old foreign exchange policy.
Southern-Chain-6485@reddit
In order to lower inflation, we are having an exchange rate that devaluates the peso at a lower rate than inflation, the result is that we're having a high inflation when measured in US dollars. The country has become, in less than two years, very expensive in international terms (and salaries have not kept up). Also, foreign exchange ingress to Argentina is highly seasonal, as a most of it still depends on the harvest. 2Q is *the* time where dollars are fed into the country. Rather that stock those dollars by exchanging them for pesos and strengthening forex reserves at the expense of more inflation, the government chose not to increase forex reserves.
And the combination of foreign debt payments, low inherited reserves from the past administrations and a trade deficit that's starting to appear, a foreign exchange crisis is looming in the horizon: At some point in the future, there won't be enough dollars in both the public and private sectors to pay for everything, so a devaluation of the peso will happen.
Part of this problem is the direct consequence of Milei's plans (mostly like Caputo, his finance minister because I don't think Milei is doing much of ruling himself). Part of it is a structural problem of Argentina's economy: when the economy grows, imports raise much faster than exports, and if that can't be solved, foreign exchange crisis become a life fixture.
RockstepGuy@reddit
It was either Milei or death.
Don't believe the other guy, the opposition was and still is trash, so bad it makes Milei look like a god at economics when most of the thing he is doing is basic stuff.
Thangoman@reddit
Ehhhhhh
I was part of the militancy of the oposition in last election to prevent Milei from winning. I would always take them over Milei, but they aint very good. Theres good leaders, like Juan Grabois, but theres an strong push to please the more economically conservative faction and a lot of incompetent people.
Its not clear what the oposition would look like in the presidency and thats really troubling, because last time they had a government they tried to please everyone and they ended up not pleasing anyone
yaxkongisking12@reddit
Argentina's experiment with Anarcho Capitalism is going completely as expected. I really hope things turn much better for you guys and Millei is out of office soon since Argentina has suffered economically for decades. One silver lining to come out of all of this though is that at least obnoxious libertarians and Ayn Rand fanboys can no longer claim "Muh Real CaPitAlisM haSn'T BeeN TriEd yEt, iT totAllY wOrkS".
Level_Hour6480@reddit
Fascism is international.
Thangoman@reddit
I mean, our preseident doesnt miss any chance he gets to go to a far right congress
BendicantMias@reddit
Your economy is more suited for China than the US, yet your president snubbed them lol.
Thangoman@reddit
Oh absolutely
He threatened to actually break diplomatic relations with China during the presidential race and had to walk back on that
Boring_Management449@reddit
Voters are so brainwashed that they are celebrating and living in their own parallel reality. However, the financiers of the agro parliamentarians, They felt the pain in their pockets and took a stand for the government and against the taxes. They may be crazy traitors to the country, but they're not crazy people who tear up money.
Chewzilla@reddit
It's a parallel reality but it's their parallel reality
Thangoman@reddit
The ones loudly celebrating were never going to vote anything but Bolsonaro, the ones that need to be seen are the more silent bunch
Boring_Management449@reddit
Yeah, they are a noisy portion of the population, not a majority, but a considerable number. The rest have their feet on the ground and are seeing the situation for what it is: a foreign tyrant extorting the country in favor of the domestic tyrant, as an excuse to confront the BRICS.
In the end, I think the episode will enlighten the population and have an effect contrary to the interests of the Orange Man, in the same way it did with Canada and Europe.
Hiro_the_Bladeknight@reddit
Well, I’m in Europe and all I can say is that I am glad that BRICS exists if for no other reason than it means South American nations have an alternative and therefore an ace up your sleeve whenever the Americans try to throw you under the bus.
I hope that South American standards of living grow better and that you enact laws to keep foreign interference out of your media. That judge pushing back against Musk last year for example was exactly the right move and was absolutely inspiring to see. The world needs to do more of this.
Aenjeprekemaluci@reddit
Ironically you being in BRICS can mitigate the tariffs.
SirStupidity@reddit
Who in BRICS is even close to be comparable to the US consumer expenditure power? The American consumer market is (in 2023) more than triple the size of the second largest market (China).
I don't necessarily agree with Trump's tariffs nor that they are part of an "America first" agenda, since the US consumer gains so much from America's hegemony and the international market. But I do think that using America's economic power to pressure or punish countries is a much safer and peaceful way of creating international peace and cooperation than other measures.
HzPips@reddit
Why ironically? That was BRICS´s goal all along, give countries another alternative to the USA and western dominated financial institutions.
zweischeisse@reddit
It's ironic because part of the motivation for the tariffs is the participation in BRICS. So Trump is trying to stop BRICS using a weapon that BRICS is a countermeasure for.
BendicantMias@reddit
He'd do it regardless. He wants Bolsonaro back, BRICS or no BRICS.
Level_Hour6480@reddit
Because it's the opposite of Trump's goal. He might be a stupid person.
ShootmansNC@reddit
Hope Lula goes ahead with the plan to break american medicine patents as a response to the tariffs.
LovesFrenchLove_More@reddit
That are far-right people everywhere. Blame others for what is going bad, then hurt their own people some (more) and blame others even more, saying you can prevent it. Right out of the manual „Fascism 101“.
Winderkorffin@reddit
It's just Trump being Trump. That said, it's funny because even that 50% is just half of what we tax everything from everyone. All hail Brazil's protectionism
Awkward_Cheetah_2480@reddit
LOL you lack Basic understanding of what tariffs are, and How importation Works for companys, our median import tax is around 4%. Gtfo with your Brainrot Social media talking point.
HzPips@reddit
The 92% tax from "Remessa Conforme" is only for the digital market, on average the import tariffs are around 11%
Winderkorffin@reddit
Sure, it enters with a base 11%. Then IPI. PIS/COFINS. ICMS. How much does the 11% ends as? I love tax upon tax... Upon tax again.
HzPips@reddit
Those taxes also apply to national products, they are not tariffs.
Winderkorffin@reddit
You don't understand. I'm asking about the 11%. What happens to the 11% after everything?
HzPips@reddit
If the other taxes also apply for domestic products, they are not protectionist like you suggested.
Winderkorffin@reddit
You do understand that the whole point of the "Remessa Conforme" that you mentioned is the AGGREGATION of all the taxes someone pays, right? I'm asking you to do the same for the 11% blanket one you mentioned.
HzPips@reddit
But the rest of the 11% are just regular taxes my dude.
Winderkorffin@reddit
They're not if I'm asking about the 11%. I'm sure you know about the snowball effect. I'm asking you: What happens to the 11% after everything?
Here's an example using the "Remessa Conforme":
If I buy something worth R$100. There's a blanket 60% import tax. The price goes to R$160. However, there's also ICMS upon that. Assuming a 17% ICMS, that's R$27. Resulting in a final price of R$187.
Finally, do you see it? It's not 17% of 100. It's 17% of 160. It becomes 27 instead of 17. There is a R$10 abudance wouldn't be there. What do you attribute that R$10 to? Since it wouldn't exist without the import tax, I'd say it's more than fair to attribute it to it.
Then, if you just look at the value, from 100 to 187, there's 87% taxes. However, we only talked about 60% and 17%. However, 87 is different from 60+17. What do you attribute that difference to? Since it wouldn't exist if not for the import tax, I'd say it's more than fair to attribute it to it.
Lastly. What is the 11% after everything?
HzPips@reddit
Thats how it works everywhere
Winderkorffin@reddit
Maybe another tax. Brazil has half a dozen taxes cascading on itself. Heck, ICMS may count itself in the cascading sometimes.
holchansg@reddit
Bruh, we are talking about coffee, oil, aviation parts... dozens of billions dollars in game.
Winderkorffin@reddit
Yeah yeah, we sell crude oil and buy back refined oil. The same for industrial machines, it's a fascinating relationship, couldn't live without it.
Anyway, regardless of size, the whole point of import tax is the same: Protectionism. Trump is the first US president adopting a protectionist stance in 100 years. Meanwhile, what I'm poking fun at is our complete opposite stance: We have been protectionists for over 100 years. And even with this crazed actions that Trump has been doing in his 2nd term, he is still not as protective as Brazil has always been.
So, if the US wants to see the end of what a protectionist policy does to a country, they have to look no further than Brazil. Starting with higher costs of living for the population. Degradation of existing industries, and eventually complete and utter irrelevance in global high tech.
Aenjeprekemaluci@reddit
Trump legit is on path to wreck the US completely. These tariffs with no internal innovation, will only cause an economic meltdown. Trump is militarizing ICE and other sectors and his big beautiful bill is just a militarization scheme.
BendicantMias@reddit
Well he's for chips! And AI. He really wants to bring chip manufacturing back to America, and to be the sole AI superpower that everyone else is dependent on. So far neither goal seems to be going well though...
reddit_is_geh@reddit
Whenever I think he can't cause our allies and the world to respect us any less, he finds a cellar door to get even lower. Absolutely blown away.
Yeah and while China is going full blast with cheap, green energy, Trump is basically like "Nah that's gay liberal shit!" He literally sucks at everything he does.
In the past I used to be nuanced with the right, understanding there were two ways to skin a cat and while I may not like their way, there was some logical ideological framework behind it. With Trump, it's literally just self inflicting wounds with everything he does. Nothing he does ever seems to have a positive effect.
I don't think he's a Russian asset, because no Russian asset would ever possibly be this fucking bad.
not_hairy_potter@reddit
Tariffs are not inherently a bad thing. They are a tool to shape the economy in a certain way just like subsidies or taxes. If used wisely, they can be beneficial for the economy and public. Trump on the other hand publicly announces and suspends tariffs on daily basis and he is also tariffing raw materials like metals and lumber which is just the height of stupidity for a developed country like the USA.
Ambereggyolks@reddit
I don't think people would be that upset if we implemented incentives to bring some manufacturing back here while having a sliding table over the next ten years to implement tariffs.
I'd like to see pharmaceuticals and medical devices be manufactured here more, I think that's a huge national security issue. If we ever had real issues with China or Indiabor another pandemic happened, we would be fucked. Having a diverse supply chain is good as we've all seen since the pandemic. Relying on one place to produce everything can really back fire.
I don't think we should even focus on the jobs that would produce if we went that direction, they're probably a drop in the bucket in reality but having the facilities and know how to make those things would be good for any country to have.
RA12220@reddit
That’s the goal, he’s a con artist and he’s scammed the right and conservatives into doing his bidding. He won’t stop until there’s nothing left for him to take.
Suspicious-Yogurt-95@reddit
Trump is willing to cause pain to the Americans to impose his agenda to other sovereign nations. The US has a surplus in this relationship with Brazil. This is not a matter of “balancing”, but simply use economic power to impose his political opinions. Meanwhile, the Epstein client list….
yaxkongisking12@reddit
He is doing the same everywhere. In Australia where I'm from, he is also wanting to impose tariffs despite the US having a trade surplus with us, and not to mention being an important regional ally. He doesn't seriously think manufacturing jobs are coming back to the US with these tariffs, they're simply about punishing everyone with the heinous crime of not being American because blind nationalism is all he can offer his moronic supporters who are mostly going to be worse off because of this. They're going to be in a shock when they realise that he actually goes through with this (which is starting to look less likely by the day because he is also a coward), the US is going to lose a lot of their economic standing with the world as they realise nobody will want to trade with such an unreliable trading partner.
empleadoEstatalBot@reddit
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DragonDai@reddit
I'm so tired of these misleading articles.
"Brazil's Real feel 2%!!!!! END OF THE WORLD!"
At the end of last year it was 6.28 Real to 1 dollar. It's fallen to 5.50ish recently. Sure, since the tariffs were announced the Real has lost value, but it's still WAY more valuable than it was when Trump took office.
https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=BRL&view=1Y
Salted_cod@reddit