Israel Launches New Ground Incursion in Lebanon, Raising Fears for Truce
Posted by Naurgul@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 438 comments
Israel has been conducting near-daily strikes against what it says are Hezbollah targets as the Iranian-backed group comes under pressure to disarm amid fears of a renewed war.
Israel announced on Wednesday its first ground incursions in months into parts of southern Lebanon, an escalation aimed at further weakening Hezbollah as the Iran-backed militant group faces mounting pressure to disarm and avoid another potentially devastating war.
The Israeli military said the “targeted operations” had located and destroyed Hezbollah infrastructure, but it did not say when this happened. The Israeli military released footage showing what it said was soldiers conducting nighttime operations inside Lebanese territory.
For months, Israel has conducted near-daily strikes against what it describes as Hezbollah targets in southern Lebanon, intensifying them in recent weeks. The attacks have added to growing fears that the tenuous Israeli-Hezbollah cease-fire, which has been in place since November, may not hold.
Israel’s announcement of renewed ground operations there followed a flurry of diplomatic activity this week, with President Trump dispatching a top U.S. envoy to Lebanon to press for Hezbollah’s disarmament.
Under the terms of the truce, Hezbollah and Israel were expected to withdraw from southern Lebanon.
But the Israeli military has held onto five positions along the border in violation of the agreement, in turn accusing Hezbollah of breaching the deal by maintaining an armed presence in the area. Hezbollah says it has withdrawn from southern Lebanon.
The stalemate has raised fears of renewed conflict, with the U.S. envoy, Thomas J. Barrack Jr., describing the cease-fire as a “total failure.”
Xper10@reddit
After almost two years of this retarded genocide they have almost nothing to show of for it, except for tens of thousands of dead children, and a million hungry ones. So evil AND incompetent
Raesh771@reddit
Nothing? They control most of Gaza, Iran got massively weakened, Hezbollah is too scared to even join the fighting and Syria is about to normalize.
You have a very interesting definition of "nothing".
Xper10@reddit
Ask LLM of your choice to explain difference between strategy and tactics. Hint: after this last visit it seems lsraeI is losing the US as an ally. That's their strategic position, and they still didn't get hostages back nor ethnically cleansed Gaza to remove the apartheid label. I don't see how they are gonna get out of this without concessions forced on to them by the US...
proterraria@reddit
Except for the 148 alive hostages they got back?
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Wow, I've never seen a person tell someone to ask an LLM to explain something before.
Kinda scary actually
Raesh771@reddit
Are they though? US still backs them on every occasion and supplies them with weapons. They recently even joined in during the war with Iran. What they're gonna get from it is safety for their citizens. Hamas will be ousted and Gaza will be managed by other arab cointries.
860v2@reddit
Not true, rocket attacks from Gaza and Lebanon are almost non-existent at this point.
Also, Hamas and Hezbollah’s leadership has been completely wiped out.
Xper10@reddit
Arghhh, why are you all so utterly retarded. Great, rockets from Hamas stopped but lsraeI had like 30-40 casulties in July and it's not even half a month. 7 soldiers burned for 3 hours last week in a tank. Sheikh Naem, Nasrallah's successor, just yesterday mentioned that Hezbollah is ready for armed conflict again, and the US diplomats are running around Lebanon every month while trying to avoid anescalation in the North politically. lran certainly is still very much alive, and then Netanyahu, well Netanyahu is talking about the two state solution at his White House visit. He wasn't talking about defeated lran, or their nuclear program, or whatever these delusional thugs talk about at home, he was talking about TWO STATES. TOTAL FAILURE
GothicGolem29@reddit
Casualties does not mean that Israel hasn't achieved anything from the war in Gaza Hamas has been deeply weakened. Yes Israel will be concerned about loses but that doesn't mean nothing has been achieved. I mean I'm not gonna take a high level Hezbollah members word that they are ready again it benefits them to say that even if they aren't. Israel caused a level Damage to Irans program and killed high level military leaders so not a total failure there.
I think rightly you can criticise the morals of Israels war like when it kills civs but Israel have absolutely achieved some things
Prosthemadera@reddit
Only their own.
They also killed a lot of innocent people in the middle of a busy street. There was zero justification to send a rocket there.
GothicGolem29@reddit
Well yes that’s what I was referring too given that’s what the above comment said to say Israel isn’t achieving anything.
And why does that mean I should trust Hezbollah who clearly have an interest in portraying their military wing as ready for fighting?
my overall point is not arguing the morals(tho I did mention you can rightly criticise the morals and that would apply to the Iran strikes) however rather about if Israel achieved anything
rainbowcarpincho@reddit
Structurally, nothing's really changed.
GothicGolem29@reddit
Hezbollah is massively Damaged Hamas is massively damaged with an insider saying they dont control much of Gaza now with armed gangs filling the void and clearly their capabilities are down. So I would say stuff has changed structurally especially in Gaza and in Lebanon a huge terror group being that damaged will have effects too
rainbowcarpincho@reddit
The conditions that will inevitably generate more terrorism remain unchanged.
GothicGolem29@reddit
We shall have to see on that the damage done by Israel to the terror hroups may be enough.
Also what conditions are those that would be Israeli war objectives? Because people generally talk about the occupation in regards too that but abolishing that s not something Israelis trying to achieve in the war.
Xper10@reddit
"Israel caused a level Damage to Irans program and killed high level military leaders so not a total failure there."
One word -> delusional
GothicGolem29@reddit
I don't need it to sleep
Kierenshep@reddit
Did you even watch the interview? Bibi still categorically rejected a two state solution, saying that control will still and always remain in Israel's hands.
Xper10@reddit
Was that when Trump gave him the permission to open his mouth? It's over, Netanyahu went over to sell his cabinet and secure his state. I wonder if will go rogue after this, but that was a very weak showing, even the cameras were avoiding him
860v2@reddit
There is no “but”, Israelis are objectively safer as a result of Israel’s actions.
You’re just coping and upset that your side is getting manhandled.
Xper10@reddit
Do you mean the two lsraeIis kiIIed in Washington recently while leaving the museum, or the 7 guys that burned in the tank for 3 hours last week? Or do you mean the 22 year old kiIIed in a Supermarket in Gush Etzion today?
madbaby6669@reddit
Please find another sub you are a bit too stupid, super delusional and completely incapable of arguing. Literally adding 0 to every conversation lmao. Do you think you look levelheaded or well adjusted in these interactions? Watch a tiktok about debate or something and come back try again because you are ass at it.
NuggetoO@reddit
What do you mean burned for 3 hours?
860v2@reddit
Yes, people die. You are free to celebrate the deaths but that doesn’t change the fact that the threats to Israeli civilians are weaker now than before October 7th.
Throwaway5432154322@reddit
He’s actually not free to celebrate that on Reddit, given TOS, and he’s probably risking some kind of sanction if he keeps saying weird shit like “7 soldiers burned in a tank for 3 hours”… just say “killed by an IED or EFP”, dude
UnfortunateHabits@reddit
Rocket fire on 10M people. Its a huge hindrance to day to day life and the economy.
Its huge deal.
Prosthemadera@reddit
Where would those rockets come from when Gaza is rubble?
860v2@reddit
How many innocent people? Seems like you have a number in mind.
Not true, just look at how weak and ineffective Hamas and Hezbollah have become. That’s all the evidence you need.
Prosthemadera@reddit
Hard to get a definite numbers but it's tens of thousands by now.
What do you mean, not true? Israel still kills people every day, including people who are looking for aid.
And why does Israel need an ethnic cleansing if Hamas is weak? Is Hamas just an excuse?
Xper10@reddit
Oh, and btw., do you prefer running to the shelter when Hamas launches rockets, or when lran and Yemen launch them?
860v2@reddit
What matters is the fact that rocket attacks are essentially non-existent now as a result of Israel’s military campaign.
Xper10@reddit
I see, rockets will completely stop onlu when Zionism completely dies you'll see. lsraeI has two options: reignite wars in Lebanon and get rockets back or normalize and fall under the GCC economic block, lose political sovereignty (meaning Qarar and UAE sponosored poloticians) and then chop Zionism and apartheid.
860v2@reddit
History says otherwise. Jewish people were being persecuted and discriminated against in the Middle East long before Israel, Netanyahu, settlers, etc.
Prosthemadera@reddit
What does that have to do with what Israel is doing? Israel is not an ethnostate. Israel doesn't represent Jews.
860v2@reddit
It disproves the claim that Palestinians hate Jewish people because of Israel, Zionism, the IDF, etc.
Prosthemadera@reddit
So the Holocaust proves that German people today don't like Israel not because of its actions but simply because they hate Jews?
No, it doesn't. It just proves that you think Palestinians hate Jewish people and that they have no reason for it. And it shows you equate Israel and Jews which is false and it's actually an antisemitic talking point.
Prosthemadera@reddit
Is that all that matters to you?
860v2@reddit
Yes, safety matters to me.
Maple_Moose_14@reddit
Saying Israel has “accomplished nothing” in Gaza or against Hezbollah is just denial of reality.
Daily Hamas and PIJ rocket fire into Israeli territory has effectively stopped a major shift compared to the pre-war and post Oct 7th reality. The leadership of Hamas has been largely dismantled, with several top commanders eliminated and their organizational infrastructure severely degraded.
You may disagree with Israel's methods or take issue with the tragic civilian toll (which are fair criticisms) but that’s not the same as claiming there have been no results.
The same goes for Hezbollah. For months, they were launching rockets at Israeli civilian areas long before any ground incursion in Lebanon. Since then, Hezbollah's military capabilities in southern Lebanon have taken serious hits, and much of the threat has been pushed back from the border. Their leadership as well has been completly eliminated and you can't just replace these types on a whim.
Whether or not one supports Israel’s approach, it’s just not accurate to pretend nothing has been achieved.
Kierenshep@reddit
Exactly, Israel is taking the 'Israel comes first and no other lives are worth anything' which is as horrifying as it can be effective. Ffs, they were able to freely attack Iran without any of the satellite groups retaliating. I don't think Israel has ever had this amount of projected power, and they are bringing the rest of the region under its heel or else.
Of course its going to instill more generational hate and violence but that's for future Israel to worry about.
Maple_Moose_14@reddit
Hint: Most countries in the region haven’t exactly liked Israel regardless of its death counts, policies, or behavior , long before this war or any recent escalation.
Let’s not kid ourselves , the hatred toward Israel in much of the region isn’t just about specific actions , it’s deeply ideological, political, and often state-sponsored.
Whether Israel responds with force or restraint, the “generational hate” was already there.
Certainly peace is the best outcome , but like everything else it takes two to tango.
Prosthemadera@reddit
Hint: The Nakba started before Israel as a country was even created.
And yet you're not criticizing Israel in the same harsh manner as you do everyone else in the region.
Maple_Moose_14@reddit
I've admitted to plenty , I don't see you acknowledging that victim groups aren't known for:
Taking civilian hostages (and or condoning such behaviour)
Launching rockets towards civilian population center.
Blowing themselves up in coffee shops , pizza parlors and bus stations.
Have no Jews in their lands while accusing the other side with a 20% Muslim minority as an apartheid state.
Financially rewarding the killing of civilians via martyrdom.
Prosthemadera@reddit
Holy shit.
So that part is not a fairy tale?
They all left voluntarily? No.
Maple_Moose_14@reddit
The Nakba narrative, as often told, presents a one-sided account that omits key historical context.
It overlooks the coordinated efforts by Arab states and militias in 1947–48 to eliminate the Jewish presence in the region following the UN Partition Plan. It also leaves out the fact that some Palestinians left voluntarily, believing Arab armies would swiftly defeat the Jews and allow them to return to a land cleansed of Jewish inhabitants.
It further ignores the present reality, nearly 2 million Arab citizens of Palestinian descent live in Israel today. They have full citizenship, vote, serve in parliament, and participate in all aspects of civil society. Meanwhile, in Palestinian-controlled territories, there is virtually no Jewish population, and Jews are explicitly barred from living in areas like Gaza and parts of the West Bank under Palestinian Authority control.
This is what I mean by calling it a "fairy tale." I'm not pushing a simplistic pro-Israel version of events or suggesting that Palestinians are uniformly to blame while Israelis are without fault. This is a complex and heavily nuanced conflict, but pretending only one side’s narrative is valid does not lead to understanding or resolution.
In fact, I would argue that exaggerating events and spreading falsehoods only ensures that the suffering on both sides continues. It fuels resentment, hardens positions, and makes any path toward mutual understanding or resolution even more difficult.
Prosthemadera@reddit
Eh no. Don't criticize me for something you imagine someone "often" says. It's a dishonest rhetorical strategy to avoid engaging with the facts.
Who is ignoring anything? No one. Your whole comment is fighting shadows in order to downplay what happened. YOU are the one presenting a "one-sided account"!
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
This is obviously stupidity in motion. There’s been a complete normalisation deal on the table for Israel to pick up since 2000. It would establish peace with Israel across the region. It would stop Israeli expansion though, which is a deal-breaker for Israel.
Maple_Moose_14@reddit
This sounds more like a conspiracy theory wrapped in revisionist nonsense than a serious argument.
Israel has been to the peace table multiple times [Camp David (2000), Taba (2001), and the Annapolis Conference (2007)] to name a few...
And in each case Palestinian leadership either walked away or rejected the proposals outright. These offers included the vast majority of the West Bank, Gaza, and even shared control of Jerusalem. Let’s not pretend those opportunities didn’t exist.
If Israel were truly the expansionist colonial force you claim, then why did it return the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt in 1980s in exchange for peace? Why did it make peace with Jordan in 1994 while respecting their mutual borders? These aren’t the actions of a nation obsessed with land grabs.
Israel also hasn’t “expanded” beyond its recognized borders into neighboring countries, despite having a superior military. If it wanted to, it easily could easily but it hasn’t. That alone undercuts the whole “Greater Israel” narrative.
The so-called “Greater Israel” idea isn’t an Israeli government policy it’s an invention pushed by Islamist propaganda and fringe voices to justify continued hostility. Almost no one in mainstream Israeli discourse talks about it seriously.
It’s not policy worth discussing , it’s 100% projection.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
I think the fact that you can ignore Israel setting up colonies in the Sinai, Gaza, the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Syria and say “Israel doesn’t want to expand” is hilarious. Why would Israel attack Egypt and start colonising the Sinai if it didn’t want the land? Why ship settlers there and spend all that money building them houses? Same for Gaza. You don’t build houses for your people to move into, set up infrastructure and authorise ethnic cleansing when you don’t intend to keep the land.
Israel was driven out of Gaza and left the Sinai because they couldn’t militarily hold it forever - not enough manpower. Meanwhile they have occupied Shebba Farms, the Golan Heights, the West Bank and East Jerusalem for decades and built settlements in almost all those places. Obviously because Israel wants to expand and keep that land.
It’s funny that multiple government ministers keep saying that they will never withdraw from the West Bank. Netanyahu has publicly opposed a Palestinian state ever being formed. You think he’s lying? You think hundreds of thousands of Israeli settlers are lying when they say they want all the land?
Here’s some info about the Arab Peace Initiative: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative. Peace is something Israelis is very obviously not interested in.
Maple_Moose_14@reddit
Your use of the word “colonies” is misleading and historically inaccurate in this context. (Some would call this propaganda)
Sinai , Israel never formally annexed or claimed sovereignty over the Sinai Peninsula. It captured the territory from Egypt during the 1967 Six-Day War, after Egypt massed troops in the Sinai and blocked Israeli shipping. While some settlements (like Yamit) were established there during the occupation, Israel fully withdrew from Sinai in 1982 under the Camp David Accords, dismantling all settlements and military infrastructure. That’s not colonization , it’s evidence of Israel trading land for peace.
Gaza , Israel withdrew unilaterally from Gaza in 2005 under Ariel Sharon’s Disengagement Plan. All Israeli settlements were dismantled and more than 8,000 settlers forcibly evacuated by the IDF. Since then, there have been no Israeli settlements or military presence inside Gaza. (U ntil the current conflict of course). Again, not the behavior of a state trying to colonize territory it wants to keep.
Syria/Golan Heights: Israel captured the Golan Heights from Syria during the 1967 war. While Israel later applied its laws there in 1981, it has been a highly contested and strategic military zone , used by Syria before 1967 to shell northern Israeli towns. You can debate the legitimacy of Israel’s continued presence there, but calling it a “colony” ignores both the strategic context and any nuance. (Which is typical really)
TL;DR: None of these cases resemble colonial expansion in the classic sense. In two of them (Sinai and Gaza), Israel withdrew completely, showing a willingness to relinquish land. In the third (Golan), it's more about military security than “colonization.”
So no...there are no Israeli colonies in Sinai, Gaza, or Syria today. And the historical facts don’t support the claim that Israel intended to permanently “colonize” those areas.
Another chapter in the Islamist copium handbook to justify their BS.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Only Zionists would call what I wrote propaganda:
It’s the dictionary definition. You are objecting to accuracy.
Good cut and paste of the talking points from Hasbara Fellowship. They have some new updates I see. However it’s completely inaccurate and irrelevant and is an attempt to mislead.
If Israel didn’t intent to keep the Sinai or Gaza why set up colonies there in the first place? Why did the settlers declare that these colonies are forever part of Israel, and why did they fight so hard to remain?
Regarding Syria, Moshe Dayan said that Israel started the aggression and that it was all for more land:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golan_Heights
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1997-05-12-mn-58010-story.html
Nope, they are obviously colonies, and your attempt to pretend that it’s not about expansion isn’t even remotely believable.
I also note that you are avoiding any mention of the colonies and their expansion in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. I guess you don’t have any talking points for them.
Said by someone who just cuts and pastes from a hasbara handbook…
Maple_Moose_14@reddit
Classic bad faith move...dismiss everything as “Hasbara” (basically the internet equivalent of calling someone a bot) the moment you can’t actually refute a point. You went straight to ad hominem instead of engaging with facts.
Also amusing how suddenly Israeli statements become gospel truth (when they suit your narrative). You cherry-pick quotes like Moshe Dayan’s to push your land-grab theory, but would instantly reject his words if he defended Israel’s right to exist or expressed concern about Syrian aggression. Let’s be honest...you don’t actually care what Israeli leaders say unless it's a line you can weaponize.
On the dictionary definition of "colony" ....great job Googling it. But definitions aren't applied in a vacuum. Settlements during wartime occupations are not the same as formal colonialism, especially when they’re dismantled later in exchange for peace or unilaterally removed. (Completly destroying your point).
If Israel truly intended to permanently colonize Sinai and Gaza, they wouldn’t have withdrawn completely and forcibly removed thousands of their own citizens at enormous political cost. That’s not how expansionist empires operate.
Also, it’s cute how you pretend I "avoided" the West Bank and East Jerusalem when my comment was very clearly focused on refuting your claim about Sinai, Gaza, and Syria. If you're going to shift the goalposts, at least be honest about it...
You’re not here to have a real discussion. You’re here to rant, slap links without context, and accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being part of some propaganda machine. That’s not debate , that's incoherent noise.
If this sad attempt at a rebuttal is what you consider “discussion,” don’t bother wasting my time with a reply.
Xper10@reddit
You don't understand what just happened and you maybe never will. lsraeI lost. From the moment Trump was elected it was sealed, maybe even before, but they are on the way to becoming a satellite state of the GCC, normalisation will be the death of mainstream Zionism
Maple_Moose_14@reddit
Wishing for something doesn’t make it true. People have been predicting Israel’s downfall for decades, yet the opposite keeps happening its GDP continues to grow, its economy remains strong, and its exports are increasing year after year.
Your narrative is rooted in ideological hope, not actual data. If anything, normalization agreements and regional integration point to Israel becoming more central in the region, not less. So I’d argue it’s you who doesn’t understand what’s happening.
The 28th largest economy in the world, with a GDP over half a trillion dollars, isn’t going to disappear , no matter how much you wish it would.
Xper10@reddit
That's actually your wishful thinking. Watch the news in the coming days
Maple_Moose_14@reddit
I'm sure you'll come back and admit you're wrong or move the goalposts when the event you so wish will happen doesn't occur.
Nah , you would never do that...
✌️
Xper10@reddit
RemindMe! 1 year
Zionism will likely be in the dustbin of history by then. So here's the prediction, lsraeI will exist, massive concessions, and militant Zionism in it's current form settler thugs, evictions etc. will be a thing of history
Prosthemadera@reddit
Daily? No.
So why is Israel still planning an ethnic cleansing of Gaza? Why do they need to violate ceasefires?
Do you agree with that? Do you condemn Israel for the tens of thousands of innocent people it has killed?
Maple_Moose_14@reddit
I don’t wish for civilian deaths (no decent person does). And ideally...I’d hope for a more precise and nuanced dismantling of Hamas with far fewer civilian casualties. But let’s be honest, expecting zero civilian deaths in a war against an entrenched terrorist group that embeds itself among civilians is an impossible standard.
Both sides have violated ceasefires at various points, so acting as if one is uniquely guilty serves no purpose. Ceasefires have repeatedly been broken by both that's the unfortunate reality of this conflict.
And about the rockets yes, sometimes it's daily. The fact that you're trying to downplay that or act like it's trivial is incredibly petty. Seriously, what level of rocket fire would you tolerate if it were your neighborhood under attack?
At the end of the day, a government's first responsibility is to protect its own citizens. That doesn’t mean Palestinian lives are worthless, it means Israel’s priority, like any state, is its own people.
Prosthemadera@reddit
Did I ask about zero deaths? No. I asked whether you condemn Israel for the tens of thousands of innocent people it has killed but the best you could say is that you don't wish for civilian deaths, as if that was ever a question and as if what you wish for or not has anything to do with what Israel is doing.
Why is it so hard to just say "yes, it's bad to kill so many innocent people and people need to be held accountable" without any "but"?
Have you criticized Israel for violating ceasefires before?
I have called out Hamas plenty of times before. I called out antisemitism, I called out people trying to conflate Israel and Judaism or Jews.
Excuse me? I didn't downplay anything nor did I suggest it's trivial. I made the factually accurate statement that it's not daily which you agree with! Because "sometimes it's daily" means it's not daily. When I go to the supermarket for three consecutive days then that doesn't mean I'm going to the supermarket daily. You're not using words in good faith.
That means Palestinian lives are worth less because otherwise Israel wouldn't treat them any different.
Maple_Moose_14@reddit
That accusation is serious and requires actual evidence. Ethnic cleansing involves the intentional and systematic removal of a population. If you're asserting that Israel is planning such a thing, then back it with a clear policy statement or an official document , not just your interpretation of events. War causing civilian displacement is not automatically proof of ethnic cleansing, especially when the stated and observed goal is to eliminate a terrorist group embedded within civilian areas, not to remove the population itself. (Gazan population has tripled in 3 decades).
You’re deliberately misrepresenting this. The comment never claimed zero deaths was your standard , it responded to the reality that when a group like Hamas embeds itself in civilian areas, high casualties do occur even with precision efforts. It's not about wishing or not wishing for civilian harm; it's recognizing that asymmetrical warfare against an actor that uses civilians as shields leads to morally and operationally complex outcomes. If your argument is that tens of thousands prove excessive force, that’s a valid point to explore , but it’s distinct from accusing intent to mass murder civilians.
It’s not hard at all. It is bad. Innocent lives lost in war are tragedies, and investigations into disproportionate or reckless conduct should absolutely happen. But demanding accountability without considering context , like urban warfare, booby-trapped buildings, and human shields is not remotely intellectually honest. Accountability has to come from facts, not grand standing and emotional arguments.
That’s a factual statement. Israel has broken ceasefires, as has Hamas. Your question“Have you criticized Israel for violating ceasefires before?”is an assumption and I have in the same way you claim to dissavow Palestinian terrorism. Don’t pretend that the moral weight of ceasefire violations rests solely on one side when the historical record shows repeated infractions by both.
Good. That shows intellectual consistency. But then apply the same expectation to others. If someone says, “Hamas rockets are unacceptable, and Israel’s military response has at times been excessive,” that doesn’t make them a mouthpiece for the IDF. Complex conflicts allow for more than binary judgments.
You’re nitpicking syntax instead of addressing the point. The original comment said rocket fire is sometimes daily which is true. You're using a rhetorical gotcha (“see, so it's not daily!”) instead of acknowledging that regular rocket fire, even if not every single day, remains a persistent threat to civilians. The phrase wasn’t “it’s daily” but “sometimes it’s daily” that’s accurate, not dishonest. The fact you even brought it up is what I take issue with...
That doesn’t follow logically. Every country prioritizes its own citizens , it’s not unique to Israel. That doesn’t mean it views others as worthless...It means the role of any sovereign government is to ensure the safety of those it's responsible for first. If you want to argue that Israel systematically values non-Jews less in practice, that’s a different debate but this isn’t a unique Israeli principle.
You can't act like Israel doesn't treat it's minorities equally when you don't have the dame standard for any other nation (hint: There are no Jews in Gaza or West Bank and it's essentially illegal to be Jewish in Gaza).
Arab Israelis do face discrimination , it's certainly not perfect...That needs to be addressed and fixed. But they vote, serve in parliament, on the bench, and in the military. That doesn’t happen in an actual ethnostate. Is there inequality? Yes absolutely I agree. Does that make it apartheid or ethnic nationalism by definition? (Hint: The answer is a clear no by every accepted definition) unless of course you ignore nuance and context in favor of buzzwords.
If you're arguing for justice and accountability, that’s entirely fair. But don’t try to win the argument by framing any nuance or contextual explanation as moral cowardice. That’s not honest debate , it’s shameful posturing.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Of course not. Some Zionists will grudgingly allow limited criticism of Israel, but Israel mass murdering 15 or 20 thousand children isn’t an evil enough act to justify them reducing support for Israel or actually condemning Israel for killing those children. You can condemn it, but not too harshly or you’re an antisemite.
PerspectiveNormal378@reddit
I agree, Israel's conduct has defied all Just War tenants and should absolutely be condemned, while I still wonder how horrific their end goal in Gaza will be, but ultimately they have achieved an end to much of the bombing initiated by hezboklah and hamas. Too bad they then decided to go ahead and attack Iran because Bibi felt politically threatened, putting more civilians on both sides in danger.
Maple_Moose_14@reddit
I’m no fan of Bibi either he’s absolutely a political liability and has contributed to instability, both domestically and regionally. But let’s not pretend Iran is some innocent bystander.
The Iranian regime has been directly funding, arming, and training militant groups like Hamas, Hezbollah, and PIJ for decades all of which have openly targeted Israeli civilians. Their fingerprints are all over the regional escalation. Ignoring that is just denial and removes all responsibility from the IRGC.
Criticizing Israeli leadership is absolutely fair, but it doesn’t absolve Iran of its long-running role in fueling proxy wars and destabilizing the region. Not everything goes back to Israel like some conspiracy theorist with red string on a board.
Prosthemadera@reddit
You can criticize people when they're doing that, not before.
Criticizing Iran leadership is absolutely fair, but it doesn’t absolve Israel of its long-running role in killing tens of thousands of innocent people and yes, playing a role in destabilizing the region.
Not everything goes back to Iran either.
PerspectiveNormal378@reddit
Completely agree again btw, just meant that the timing was off if Israel actually sought to convince the world of the Iranian threat. If Israel pushed for a decapitation of the "Axis of Resistance" in the immediate aftermath of October 7th, I don't think nearly as many people wouldve had as much of an issue. Iran is not some sort of beacon of human rights and resistance to western interference, quite the opposite actually, but putting your civilians under threat because you refuse to allow your coalition to collapse is sheer cowardice.
ijzerwater@reddit
they more or less lost the diplomatic war though. Maybe not with current western governments, but for sure with parts of the population. Blaming Israel and zionism is not unspeakable any more.
Attacking Lebanon will enforce that loss
TrizzyG@reddit
Dude people have hated Jws for a long time. There was even this crazy event that happened not so long ago where a lot of Jwish people died. If anything it's pretty much increasingly illegal to criticize Israel in the US so they're winning diplomatically too. Some token pushback from some European countries is not going to make or break Israel's diplomatic relations.
They're bold like this because they know they're winning.
Prosthemadera@reddit
OP said Israel and Zionism, not Jews.
PerspectiveNormal378@reddit
I think they overestimated the soft power advantage. Rising Muslim populations, reducing religious affiliations, and fringe antisemitism sentiment being spread through memes have all contributed to a reduction in Israeli positive perception. They've been under scrutiny for a while now what with their actions in the west bank, but the Gaza operation really crossed a plethora of lines that the younger generation cannot ignore, whole the older generation chooses to. The immediate October 7th environment absolutely played into Israeli hands (for obvious reasons) but they chose strategic advantage over humanitarian advantage, and ultimately lost the media game.
TrizzyG@reddit
Sounds like a lot of fluff with no substance. Just looks like youre desperate to try to paint an imaginary loss for Israel 🤷♂️
As it stands they continue to get weapons, they continue their military operations without worry, and they've severely pruned the leadership and military capabilities of three of four of their enemies.
PerspectiveNormal378@reddit
And yet France is requesting that the UK recognise a Palestinian state. The western world is in discord over how to approach the subject. That was unimaginable 4 years ago.
TrizzyG@reddit
Wow im sure that is absolutely crushing Israel right now. Im sure the Taliban are similarly crushed that they havent been officially recognized too right? Because someone "requesting" recognition is really sticking it to Israel 😂
Cold-Statistician-80@reddit
Israel's survival is completely dependent on western support (especially US). Without the US, Israel will not survive the century. And the youth in the US supports Palestine.
Israel cannot last in a war of attrition with Iran and it's proxies without US support. (Sure they can have short successes, but they can't win a long term war, especially since they can't replace expensive weapons and interceptors fast enough and the US is already under embargo for rare earth metals by China and China does over 90% of global production and processing of rare earth metals - crucial for bombs and planes). And Israel was close to running out of interceptors, which is why they secretly ran to the US to negotiate peace out of desperation.
Not to mention Israeli equipment is expensive to operate, whereas Iranian doctrine is about asymmetric warfare which will bleed Israel over the long run.
TrizzyG@reddit
Hopes and delusional dreams like yours are the only thing keeping the idea of Iran fighting Israel alive at this point. Israel just casually massacred a wide swathe of Iranian top leadership and gained almost complete air dominance in a short 12 day sprint that sent Khamenei into hiding. The idea that Iran would win anything is hilarious in the face of that reality.
Cold-Statistician-80@reddit
That's because Israel uses shock and awe doctrine. They need to win in the first 6 months of a war. They'll get quick victories like what you said but They won't last in a war of attrition against a state like Iran. Especially without US support.
The cost disparity is also evident. Israel's war with Iran costs 200 million a day. Iran spends much less than that. Who do you think can last longer then?
Buddy. There were multiple reports on Israel running out of interceptors. Also, there were multiple reports from the Pentagon that the US was running out of munitions when bombing the houthis in Yemen, which is why they stopped.
So it's really not that far fetched.
Hopes and dreams like yours are what keep the delusion of Western supremacy alive whilst the rest of the world catch up and leave you behind.
TrizzyG@reddit
Yeah dude the last 1.5 years of Israel mercilessly wiping out faction after faction is a clear sign of you guys catching up and leaving the West behind 😭😂
I guess when youre getting sht on so badly that your top leaders are at the complete mercy of Israel and the West you have to grasp at straws so I dont blame you. Its gotta be tough for your psyche to get sht on with nothing to show for it.
Cold-Statistician-80@reddit
You keep attacking me personally which shows you have no argument and you've lost.
You're like the guy that keeps going on about how nazi Germany has the greatest military in the world and they're kicking ass in the soviet union and anyone who says otherwise is just coping. Too bad nazi Germany couldn't sustain a war of attrition against the USSR, just like Israel.
As I said, the US was running out of munitions fighting rebels in one of the poorest countries in the world (according to the Pentagon). Israel was running out of interceptors too. Israel without interceptors makes them sitting ducks for even the smallest and most make-shift explosives (ie they become extremely vulnerable to rocket fire).
It takes at least two interceptors to destroy an Iranian missile (interceptors are more expensive than Iranian munitions). Israel is a small centralised country (makes it much easier to target and any attacks on Israel will disrupt most of the country, whereas Iran is large and can weather hits. An attack on western Iran is not going to affect cities in central Iran). The cost of attrition is much higher for Israel. This is a fact that's hard to absorb for the western world who are drunk off their own successes.
Western military doctrine relies on quick victories (shock and awe). It can't sustain long term wars without the economy being restructured towards war (aka economic mobilisation). And the US isn't going to do that any time soon - people are too accustomed to the things they consume.
TrizzyG@reddit
No its because youre repeating delusional hopes and dreams and ignoring the actual reality on the ground and the results by clinging to news reports that say things you like to hear. Not to mention the rampant speculation about what a country would and wouldn't be willing to do.
ObjectiveObserver420@reddit
Why did Israel stop if they were winning? Why did the US Air Force stealth bombers intervene on their behalf if Israel was winning? Who else in history has ever stopped what they claim is an existential war when they are winning?
PerspectiveNormal378@reddit
I'm just saying that soft power is in fact a thing. If you're constantly straining your relations with your allies by acting the eejit and causing more problems than you solve, then maybe you shouldn't. I'm not being vehemently antisemitic or whatever, I'm just saying that it's a factor that should be acknowledged.
TrizzyG@reddit
Im saying that what you describe as soft power is mostly just complete speculation and vibes based off your own consumption of media. I could argue just as well that the Palestinian cause is in the gutter now and Israel has never seen greater support by the people.
What you cant argue are the cold realities on the ground that I described earlier.
PerspectiveNormal378@reddit
The EU literally debated how it should handle restricting Israeli trade and weapons shipment. That was unthinkable 4 years ago. Yeah nothing will change probably but the very fact that it's on the agenda is groundbreaking. Last i checked, people weren't coming out in force suporting the Israeli state. This isn't "vibes" or "media", and I'm not arguing with the "cold realities" of the strategic successes: I'm stating that the long term loss in positive soft power perception will ultimately hurt Israel, and realistically, any short term wins will be undone by the next generation of martyrs embittered by Israel's regional conflict making.
Kierenshep@reddit
And yet as long as the US has no other allies in the middle East none of it is going to matter. It's too important in the scheme of Real Politik. The US withdrawing support from Israel means that everyone there now hates them, instead of mostly everyone.
mayasux@reddit
It’s not allies the US wants in the Middle East, it has that in Saudi Arabia. It’s specifically a non-Muslim ally they want surrounded by Muslim countries.
PerspectiveNormal378@reddit
And yet here we have the Gulf States gifting planes, and the Saudi government playing an instrumental role in funding US development under Trump. Israel won't be the only ally in the region.
Funpop73@reddit
Delusional
neutral24@reddit
If anything, it’s increasingly common to criticize Israel in the US, their influence and their actions in Gaza have been covered by pretty much every major media outlet here. So the idea that it’s ‘illegal’ to criticize them doesn’t make sense.
Also, it’s not just some ‘token pushback.’ When support for Israel, or refusing to condemn its actions, becomes an issue that actually matters to voters, it starts to carry real political weight. Think about the Cuban exile vote in the US, a small but focused group that can tip elections. It’s the same idea.
Past atrocities aren’t a free pass to commit new ones
Effective_Jury4363@reddit
You mean, besides crippling hezbulla, leading to the fall of assad, killing basically all hamas leaders, the majority of their fighters, and an extremely large amount of their weapkn stockpiles, And causing massive damage in iran,showing it was nothing but a paper tiger?
pingpongpiggie@reddit
You say that, but from what I've seen, Hamas is still doing Hamas shit (they killed a bunch of IDF soldiers last week), Houthis are still sinking ships (happened this week) and Iran has pulled out of all nuclear agreements and their enriched uranium is now hidden far more effectively and not destroyed, and their leader wasn't killed.
Soooooo....
Funoichi@reddit
Yes it’s like, can we break the material into multiple pieces and hide them separately? Can we get decoy scientists and get Israel to think they’re the real scientists? And for the love of god I hope the unfortunate purges were able to tighten up the intelligence environment within their own country. And more anti aircraft capabilities will certainly be needed as well as hopefully an actual air force.
This hezbollah thing is kind of an issue they’re on their own a little bit, but definitely don’t disarm! 😱
Houthis doing well, although I would hope they wouldn’t kill relatively innocent sailors and focus on property damage.
Effective_Jury4363@reddit
I mean, israel somehow managed to build a drone factory inside their country, without anyone noticing. I think this tells you all you need to know about the incompetence of iran.
Didn't expect an american to apploud mass executions by a dictatorship, but hey- soon you will have that in your country too.
Hezbulla should disarm. They are extremely afraid of israel by this point. Israel can blatantly attack them, and they refuse to even tweet about that.
Relatively innovent?
Buddy, you are likely as innocent as they are. Hell- they literally have "death to america" on their flag.
Funoichi@reddit
I was talking about the sailors that were killed by the Houthis on the ship that sank. They aren’t innocent as they or their company directed their ship through known hostile waters. Those deaths are all on Israel as well for not stopping the genocide in Gaza.
Didn’t applaud the purges, called them regrettable. Those deaths are also on Israel for trying to infiltrate a sovereign nation.
Hezbollah needs to sit tight and work on rearmament to continue the fight. And the actual army or whatever that Lebanon has needs to step up to defend their territory.
Nobody is disarming lol. The world is continuing the necessary work of isolating and dismantling the Zionist settler project. You are already stateless, we are just making it official.
Effective_Jury4363@reddit
international waters.
If someone was sitting near a road, and shooting at incoming cars- are cars passing through the criminal?
If I will go and murder 10 random people, and say that it's because of israel-
I should not face any charges or blame, because israle did not stop the genocide.
Dude- no one forces them to kill innocent people. They want to do this.
Yes- defend their territory from hezbulla. Lebanon is literally, not a sovereign country. A military prganization, thta is not the state, controls territory, and the government.
But you- support this?
Funoichi@reddit
International waters via a specific carve out for straits lol. No way. Those waters belong to Yemen and the other half belongs to Djibouti etc.
I won’t acknowledge un rules here as they are the main reason why we are in this predicament in the first place by trying to grant the zionists “statehood.”
The strait has been decreed as closed. Only Israel can reopen it, if they decide to stop killing literally everybody.
No one forces a fake zionist state to try to steal other’s land and kill the innocent, but they are so the strait is closed. Companies and sailors should already be aware of this, so they share some blame as well.
Hez is defending Lebanon from an outrageous invasion by a craven aggressor and they are critical in this role. They need to take a break and let the country just formally declare war.
Well everyone should be declaring war on israel but these things take time.
Effective_Jury4363@reddit
Defending hezbulla by- shooting missiles at israeli cities, forcing israel to attack?
None of hezbulla's actions were defensive.
Okay, you know what- I take it back. You think that shooting at random ships is reasonable, so, shooting missiles unprovoked could be defensive.
I decree the road as closed, and only israel can reopen it.
Or I can just not shoot random people.
Funoichi@reddit
You don’t seem to be getting the point that the squatters are no longer to be allowed to sit on land that belongs to Palestine.
Everything that is done pursuant to this goal is defensive. Of course Hezbollah has tried to defend Gaza with rockets.
For the final time since this is getting repetitive:
“Just not shoot random people,” is what israel will in time be forced to do along with land vacate.
860v2@reddit
That’s a cool story but, objectively speaking, those groups are all weaker now than they were pre October 7th.
pingpongpiggie@reddit
As is Israel. Tough titty fish face.
860v2@reddit
Source?
Em3107@reddit
False, they are stronger than ever reminding everyone what their force is capable of.
Killeroftanks@reddit
Ya no, Iran after losing a chunk of their drone and missile stockpiles plus the ability to manufacture more of them, was able to breach Israel air space and force Israel to conserve their defensive weapons to key targets.
Israel has lost a lot in this war and is at the weakest it's ever been in decades. And that's before we bring up the fact their sociality is starting to revolt thanks to the constant fighting
pingpongpiggie@reddit
That explains all the Israelis fleeing the country, and how over 40% of the Israeli population have been considering leaving?
Or why European support for Israel is at an all-time low? Or why less than half of the US population is sympathetic to Israel?
NeonArlecchino@reddit
I am very curious about that. Do you have a link?
pingpongpiggie@reddit
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-05-12/ty-article-magazine/.premium/40-of-israelis-say-they-consider-leaving-the-country-this-is-what-keeps-them-here/00000196-c014-d9bf-a1b6-e9b442cf0000
NeonArlecchino@reddit
I can't read it due to paywall, but that is wild! Thank you for the source.
PainterRude1394@reddit
Lol
Effective_Jury4363@reddit
So- they are going to get massive sanctions. They didn't sign those for fun, you know.
But the enrichment plants are. Centrifuges, centrifuge plants, etc.
This is a serious blow to the nuclear program. Couple that with both the missile and factory destructions, and they are years behind.
Plus- they will.sign a deal with trump soon. If not- the war will just continue.
He was never a target. This is a war to force diplomacy.
Sometimes they can ambush groups of soldiers. That happens in guerilla warfare. The commander responsible will be punished for risking his soldiers.
I believe this was the job of the us.
Unable_Duck9588@reddit
While murdering tens of thousands of children.
Somehow it’s ok for you though
860v2@reddit
No, that’s Hamas’ fault. No one forced them to use their own children as human shields.
CiaphasCain8849@reddit
And no one forced Israel to drop bombs in a heavily populated area. No one forced them to double the amount of bombs because they feel like it.
860v2@reddit
Not true, Hamas did. They use civilian infrastructure to plan and launch attacks.
CiaphasCain8849@reddit
Gaza is as dense as London. Where else would they plan and launch attacks?
860v2@reddit
How about not under hospitals and right next to civilians?
CiaphasCain8849@reddit
"Hospital getting repeatedly bombed moves patients below ground" I wonder why the most bombed city in the world would have tunnels under their hospitals....
Reminds me of that time Israel tried to prove it by showing what they called a "terrorist sign in sheet".... It was a work schedule for nurses.
860v2@reddit
Is this why Sinwar was killed under a hospital?
CiaphasCain8849@reddit
We have legit video of him being killed and he is in a two story house LMAO.
Yahya Sinwar threw stick at drone just before death, according to Israel video | Reuters
New details emerge of Sinwar's final moments | The Times of Israel
860v2@reddit
The other Sinwar.
CiaphasCain8849@reddit
The one where they provided zero proof?
860v2@reddit
No, the one where he was killed in a tunnel under a hospital.
CiaphasCain8849@reddit
So just show a single picture?
860v2@reddit
The IDF released videos of the strike and of them removing the body from the tunnel. There’s also videos from security cameras in Gaza showing when/where the strike happened.
You’re just coping and in denial.
chdjfnd@reddit
Is that what the tunnels under the European (that wasn’t even remotely destroyed) were for?
*near them in clearly designated buildings is not the same as under flats, schools and hospitalz
chdjfnd@reddit
Do you think the Tunnels under the European (which wasn’t even remotely destroyed) were big enough to set up a hospital underneath? And that civilians are allowed to use them?
Yes near them, in clearly designated buildings, not under schools, flats and hospitals
NuggetoO@reddit
So they should be allowed to attack indiscriminately and without retaliation if they are launching from dense urban areas?
Na na na na you can't hit me back because I'm hiding behind civilians and if you kill them to get to me I'll tell everyone you're committing genocide......
CiaphasCain8849@reddit
You're insane. Like actually insane. No one is saying that Israel shouldn't be allowed to defend itself with the iron dome but they are literally leveling every single building in Gaza including hospitals and schools and refugee camps. They're shooting tank shells at people trying to get aid while starving. Killing little kids trying to get food for their family. This is some little joke, child.
NuggetoO@reddit
So they should be allowed to attack indiscriminately and without retaliation if they are launching from dense urban areas?
CiaphasCain8849@reddit
It's really not hard to understand. Stop committing war crimes. Stop bombing Refugee camps. Stop SHOOTING TANK SHELLS AT STARVING PEOPLE. Stop shooting kids throwing rocks at tanks 200 meters away. Stop the genocide. Stop gleefully killing every Palestinian they see. Stop stealing houses and land in the West Bank.
NuggetoO@reddit
It's really hard to answer a question though apparently.
CiaphasCain8849@reddit
because it's a non sequitur and just unserious.
Em3107@reddit
Actually, if Hamas fires rockets or operates within civilian infrastructure, that is a war crime by them and makes it a viable target. The blood of innocents is on them.
Sperabo@reddit
We’re talking like Hamas was there 80-odd years ago attacking the poor Israelis - stop with this “they provoked Israel” defense. Hamas wouldn’t be there if Israel didn’t exist the way it did, which is a settler-colonial Apartheid regime.
Wake the fuck up.
chdjfnd@reddit
Before Hamas there was the PIJ, the DFLP, the PFLP, the PLO and the Palestinian fedayeen; Hamas weren’t the first and they aren’t the only Palestinian militia
Unable_Duck9588@reddit
Look at all of you Genocide deniers popping out all of a sudden.
We are witnessing actual genocidal insanity. Right here in 2025.
860v2@reddit
Can’t argue against that. /s
Unable_Duck9588@reddit
You’re IDF aren’t you?
860v2@reddit
No.
Unable_Duck9588@reddit
That would have at least made some sense to your insanity.
860v2@reddit
Says the person accusing others of genocide without knowing what genocide is.
chdjfnd@reddit
Good response
Sperabo@reddit
Ah yes all of those organizations ranging from peaceful to militant are actually all just different versions of Hamas.
Great thinking right there, Hasbara Bot.
chdjfnd@reddit
Which one of those groups do you think is peaceful?
Sperabo@reddit
The point is simple: Israel is a cancer whose existence is the main cause of the existence of all the other organizations you’ve mentioned.
You asking me which of these organizations is “peaceful” is another great attempt at moving the goalposts, we’re staying right here bud. Maybe I should’ve said “relatively peaceful”, but you would’ve found another bad faith way to move goalposts.
chdjfnd@reddit
Its not “moving goalposts” to ask you about very specific words you chose to use.
Again, which of these groups do you think would fall under “relatively peaceful” given that they have all used rape, murder, hostage taking, suicide bombing and plane hijackings as tactics?
Sperabo@reddit
You are moving away from my main point that you just can’t seem to understand.
See - sure, maybe they’ve all used violent tactics in their resistance, but all of that wouldn’t exist without the cancer that is Israel. Period.
That’s why you’re moving goalposts.
chdjfnd@reddit
Maybe don’t use words that don’t even remotely summarise events accurately and people wont push you on your claims
Sperabo@reddit
Mmmm yes I sure will listen to mr.cherrypicker who still hasn’t addressed the main point.
Maybe you should stop defending the indefensible like a bot.
chdjfnd@reddit
Ok. Palestinian fedayeen were attacking before Israel was even an established state
Sperabo@reddit
Nope, the fedayeen were created as a result of the Nakba.
Try again.
chdjfnd@reddit
Ah so it was just Palestinian citizens who were massacring Jews throughout the 1920s and 30s then
Sperabo@reddit
If you mean the Pogroms during that era. Sure. Those were not from the fedayeen movement.
Explain to me how does this justify apartheid and genocide? You would have to cherry pick singlar events until we reach the near-100k women and children killed btw.
Effective_Jury4363@reddit
Gotta ask- considering the history of canada- would you support a native american terrorist organization, that commits similar actions to hamas?
Sperabo@reddit
Nice deflection, unfortunately, I’m a Russian-born Canadian so I don’t think your question is the gotcha you think it is (spoiler: I love me some revolutions and violent uprisings).
chdjfnd@reddit
Should Israel just let Hamas fire rockets and carry out offensive military operations from civilian areas?
Unable_Duck9588@reddit
Should the Palestinians let the Israelis carry out offensive military operations from civilian areas?
And don’t say Israel doesn’t embed itself in civilian areas, you were all screaming and crying when Iran’s missles got through.
chdjfnd@reddit
Thats not an answer.
Also Israel isn’t carrying out offensive military operations in civilian residences, under hospitals and schools but if Hamas want to fire at Israeli military positions (hard to do when you’re firing unguided rockets)
Israeli military infrastructure and defensive systems are clearly designated.
Unable_Duck9588@reddit
Lol, the intellectial dishonesty is hilarious.
No amount of dead children justify any of this. No matter how are you try.
chdjfnd@reddit
Good response. Can you try adding something of value that isn’t just you crying about how war is bad
860v2@reddit
Yes, because Hamas poses a threat to their lives.
Unable_Duck9588@reddit
This is absolutely a insane thing to say
860v2@reddit
No, it’s reality. Hamas has publicly stated that they’re willing to sacrifice their own people to achieve their goals.
Unable_Duck9588@reddit
You have no idea how out of touch you are.
860v2@reddit
Unable_Duck9588@reddit
We posting insane quotes by terrorists now for justification? Because I can do the same with many Israeli ministers, pms and IDF people.
Its insane how you think any of this is ok. Truly genocidal.
860v2@reddit
The words of the leaders of Hamas. Yes.
imunfair@reddit
Israelis are like that "straight to jail" meme, except for them it's collateral damage:
Hamas families? Collateral damage.
Refugee camps? Also collateral damage.
Palestinian Journalists? We'll conduct an investigation into our self-defense operations... collateral damage.
Clearly marked foreign aid workers? Believe it or not, also collateral damage.
860v2@reddit
No, it’s the fault of the group responsible for the violence. In this case it’s Hamas.
Sperabo@reddit
You’re sick.
860v2@reddit
No, I just exist in reality.
Sperabo@reddit
Nah you’re sick.
860v2@reddit
Great argument.
LividAd9642@reddit
If I were to punch you, the blame would solely be upon you as well, not me.
860v2@reddit
No, it’d be on you for initiating the violence.
LividAd9642@reddit
That sounds what a villain would say when the good guy fights back.
860v2@reddit
Raping and murdering civilians in their bomb shelters isn’t “fighting back”.
LividAd9642@reddit
If I were to punch your face, which I'd gladly do so, the blame would be solely upon you, as you are an Israeli national by choice.
Kierenshep@reddit
There's a difference between saying actions accomplished nothing and actions that accomplished something have far too high a moral humanitarian cost.
The holocaust was certainly effective in accomplishing a unification of a country against a common internal 'enemy' and consolidating fearful power for the Nazis. And yet it was still horrific.
callmejellydog@reddit
Children or future Hamas terrorists? 🤔
Unable_Duck9588@reddit
Edgy.
callmejellydog@reddit
Is it tho?
Xper10@reddit
Read the other response. Strategically nothing was achieved. Netanyahu achieved 0. BTW. if you read the last US signalling Syria is controlled by Turkey and Qatar, and the Shaara guy was taped few years back saying in 2014: "don't dream, have lofty aspirations, we'll demolish lsraeI". Literally total failure, joke, did genocide and achieved nothing. Literally HitIer-level strategic thinking
mnmkdc@reddit
They’re not the primary group responsible for Assad’s downfall at all and they’re aggressing on the new Syrian government constantly as well. Tens of thousands of children have died so Israel can be mildly safer the next time they decide to take a piece of land.
solo-ran@reddit
Missiles are not being fired from Gaza or Lebanon at Israel. They achieved that goal. No ground incursions from Hamas or Hezbollah.
Xper10@reddit
Is this worth handing over your economic sovereignty, to be followed by political sovereignty as usual, to the GCC?
Raesh771@reddit
You don't have much choice when you're invaded from every side.
Xper10@reddit
I guess that's the fate of apartheid states
Raesh771@reddit
I don't see any apartheid state in this conflict.
Xper10@reddit
Get your eyes checked out
Raesh771@reddit
Get of Twitter and touch some grass.
Fearless_Prune_2310@reddit
Sir this is Reddit.
Raesh771@reddit
Sir, this type of rhetoric was coined on Twitter
Fearless_Prune_2310@reddit
We’re not on Twitter.
Raesh771@reddit
Read my comment again.
Bloaf@reddit
We all know that Hamas’ attempted genocide against the Jews has no strategic merit, but Israel has definitely taken full advantage of their enemies mistakes.
Israel sizing the ability to conduct air operations against Iran is an absolutely massive shift in the balance of power in Israel’s favor.
pingpongpiggie@reddit
Right, that explains why Israel's image globally has completely shattered.
PainterRude1394@reddit
Yes, that is Hamas and Irans goal. They are happy to sacrifice as many Palestinians as it takes for Israel bads.
pingpongpiggie@reddit
No, Israel's image is on them, they're the ones that have been slaughtering innocents in the tens of thousands.
They chose how to respond, not Russia, not Iran, Israel decided to bomb every hospital in Gaza, every school, and refugee camp. They chose to use starvation as a tactic, they chose to turn off the electricity to Gaza and they also chose to use human shields in their operations in Gaza.
They also chose to free prison guards that were on video raping a child so badly he needed surgery and they chose to get a high ranking rabbi to bless him for it.
PainterRude1394@reddit
Yes exactly, that is Hamas and Irans goal. They are happy to sacrifice as many Palestinians as it takes for Israel bads.
pingpongpiggie@reddit
Again, if killing innocents in the tens of thousands is what gives Israel a bad name, maybe they shouldn't do it?
PainterRude1394@reddit
Yes, killing innocent people is bad. Good job.
Do you also hope Iran and Hamas start working towards a better future for Palestinians instead of sacrificing them for Israel bads to destabilize the region in Irans favor?
Far_Advertising1005@reddit
Hamas is a terrorist organisation and most reasonable people wouldn’t think to disagree with that. Now how does that justify the actions of Israel?
If someone kills your dog and then holds their baby in front of them and you punch them through the baby, do you think that’s justifiable? Israel is meant to be ‘the only democracy in the Middle East’ and gets near-full western support, why would we not hold them to higher standards than actual terrorists we don’t support?
pingpongpiggie@reddit
No? I hope the Iranians overthrow their regime, and the same for Hamas.
Don't know why you say they're destabilising the region, while Israel is invading multiple sovereign nations and has been bombing Palestine for 70 years.
PainterRude1394@reddit
You don't understand how Iran uses its terrorist proxies to destabilize the region?
Were you also totally unaware of Israel increasingly normalizing trade with uae, Saudi Arabia and other regional powers? This is why Iran wants to destabilize the region; better to tear everyone down then let them grow without you.
ArendSlotsNotHappy@reddit
Just stop. It’s not Iran, Hamas or Hezbollah that are murdering children like Hind Rajab. It’s not Iran, Hamas or Hezbollah that are killing aid workers and trying to cover it up in a web of lies. It wasn’t Iran, Hamas or Hezbollah who set a dog on a man with Down syndrome
All those actions were the IDF
pingpongpiggie@reddit
I didn't say Iran are the good guys or that they do not try to destabilise the region, I said it's a weird thing to care about considering Israel has been destabilising their neighbours for decades on a far larger scale.
PainterRude1394@reddit
You are totally unaware how Iran uses its turrorist proxies to destabilize the region?
Were you also unaware of Israel increasingly normalizing trade with uae, Saudi Arabia and other regional powers? This is why Iran wants to destabilize the region; better to tear everyone down then let them grow
CiaphasCain8849@reddit
You're incredibly insufferable.
MuteTitan77@reddit
Moronic take. Israel has only themselves to blame for bad reputation.
Avaposter@reddit
No one is forcing Israel to expand their illegal settlements.
Global hatred of that country is entirely their own doing.
Bloaf@reddit
If Israel were a YouTuber, I’m sure the “shattering” of their image would be devastating. But they’re not, and I’ve yet to see a coherent argument as too why the “vibe shift” would even come close to the significance of the military power shift.
pingpongpiggie@reddit
Good luck even having a military if that happens. Shattering of their image will be devastating as countries will slowly stop trading all together with Israel as the younger generations start voting more.
Bloaf@reddit
43% of Gaza residents are also looking to leave, but everyone is acting like acknowledging and planning for such an exodus is verboten. I think the reality is that more people are willing to say they’ll leave than will actually leave, in both cases.
On the other point, if there were some massive restrictions in trade (on the level of sanctions) there could definitely be a significant impact. But we haven’t seen that yet, and indeed the normalization of Saudi relations isn’t even derailed.
pingpongpiggie@reddit
I'm sure they are, they're under far worse conditions for only 3% more wishing to leave.
I think the sanctions will come with time; the current generation of western politicians are practically all receiving paychecks from Israel (especially in the US) while the voters are becoming more aware.
Israel won't give up on taking Gaza, and once they've achieved their aims, the west can't pretend any longer and will be forced to act or admit they ignored it.
GianfrancoZoey@reddit
It’s significant not just for Israel but for wider western society. More and more people have been forced to open their eyes to the atrocities that their governments support.
Even normal uninformed people are questioning why their governments are totally subservient to Israel above all else, and noticing that there’s different rules for their ‘freedoms’ when it comes to Israel. It’s actions have massively accelerated the inevitable collapse of the West into authoritarianism and/or barbarism
Sperabo@reddit
Cool, now let’s see what Ben G’Vir, the settlers and a majority of Israelis have been chanting about Arabs for decades now.
Bloaf@reddit
I’m sure if it was as damning as you’re insinuating, you would have dropped an example, so it’s likely you’ve stopped at insinuation for a reason.
Sperabo@reddit
“Death to all Arabs”.
Here’s an example for your ass. How about “I’m a proud homophobe” from the defense minister of your “enlightened society in the Middle East”.
How about the annual parades of settlers going around attacking palestinian citizens yelling death chants at them?
This isn’t the gotcha you think it is, nimrod.
BufferUnderpants@reddit
It wasn’t a tilt on Israel’s favor, they overspent the political capital of their clients in the US, the democratic establishment is cracking and each action in support of Israel frays Trump’s cult of personality, a lifeline to the Republican Party.
The damage on Iran wasn’t enough to offset that they probably won’t be able to gather political support from the US for another major operation in a long time.
Plus, they got struck back, and they’re accustomed to impunity.
PainterRude1394@reddit
Israel has been "struck" nonstop for decades lol. People pretending Israel being used to "impunity" is divorced from reality. Israelis are well aware of their neighbors firing rockets and ballistic missiles at its cities.
CiaphasCain8849@reddit
Why has Israel killed more civilians than Hezbollah, Hamas, and Houthis combined?
Born-Procedure-5908@reddit
Because the Axis of Resistance doesn’t exactly have built in bunkers for civilians or a modern air defense system? They still launch thousands for rockets for decades as we can see from video footage not even a few weeks old.
CiaphasCain8849@reddit
Israel drops 82 bunker busters on one dude....
CiaphasCain8849@reddit
I'm guessing that quote was taken after Israel bombed someone's house and killed their 27 family members.
Bloaf@reddit
Note you may think that genocide against a race of people globally is reasonable if you’re mad enough, you should remember
Which was my original point: Hamas’ goals aren’t actually strategically sound: they won’t make any progress pursuing them directly.
CiaphasCain8849@reddit
I prefer to judge people on their actions. Israel has killed 50,000 plus innocent people and are literally shooting tank shells at people in line waiting for food while starving to death. Fuck you
Bloaf@reddit
None of this has any bearing on the strategic soundness of Hamas’ attempted genocide.
If anything you’re reinforcing my point: if your enemy has enough military superiority to bomb with impunity and control your literal food supply, it’s the height of strategic foolishness to launch a genocidal attack like Oct 7th against them.
ForskinEskimo@reddit
Damn, now talking points dropped already? These ones aren't very creative, just another confussion-by-accusion.
PainterRude1394@reddit
Hamas founding charter was genocidal. Its okay to recognize what Hamas says and does.
ForskinEskimo@reddit
Can you provide exsctly which part is genocidal?
I've taken a look at tbe OG and new one, doesn't ring any bells.
PainterRude1394@reddit
The founding charter calls to kill Jews wherever they hide.
In its founding charter, Hamas cites a particularly violent hadith as proof that Muslims need to fight and kill Jews:
The hour of judgment shall not come until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them, so that the Jews hide behind trees and stones, and each tree and stone will say: 'Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him,' except for the Gharqad tree, for it is the tree of the Jews
CiaphasCain8849@reddit
That isn't in the charter. Try again
chdjfnd@reddit
Its a quote from the Hadith they use at the end of Article 7 in the original charter
ForskinEskimo@reddit
Prior paragraph. Yes, the cited hadith is violent and about killing jews, which was gathered/made in tbe 9th century prior to zionism and Isreal. It's contextualizes as a continuation of violence and struggle not specifically against Jews as a collective, but Zionism and the state lf Isreal. It's framed through Islam verse and hadith, but what dk you expect?
They even clarify the point in the 2017 Charter;
SRGsergan592@reddit
That's why they went on a diplomatic rampage about the Iran nuclear program and begging for the U.S and Europe to bail them out from a war they started.
Bloaf@reddit
I don’t think this was begging, if anything it was a pretty basic manipulation of Trump. He bills himself as a “strong leader,” so the instant the Israeli operation he said wasn’t a good idea looked like it might be successful he needed to get involved just to save face.
SRGsergan592@reddit
Mmmm yes the whole campaign "Iran will nuke Europe and the US" by Israeli ministers.
sulaymanf@reddit
That was never the goal. The goal was to keep Netanyahu in office as long as possible. It’s why Netanyahu refused ceasefires and broke truces. It’s to keep himself out of prison. That’s a bigger priority for him than hostages or land.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
The way to keep Netanyahu out of prison is more land. The right wing don’t care about hostages or other Jews. But Netanyahu can kill enough people and expand Israel he will stay out of prison and be voted in Jon-stop forever.
chdjfnd@reddit
Yes except for Hamas and Hezbollah being massively destabilised with thousands of fighters out of action
Bhavacakra_12@reddit
The entire leadership of those two groups has been destroyed but he says they've accomplished nothing...
ijzerwater@reddit
Israel gained a lot, but lost a load of goodwill in the west
Bhavacakra_12@reddit
Without a doubt. I think at this point the Israeli leadership realizes they've run out of good will a loooong time ago so they're taking all their enemies now before trying to claw back some favorablilty amongst western countries. Hamas, Hezbollah & even Iran have never been weaker so it's not like it's a terribly bad bet to make.
Unfortunate as it is, people have short memories and I suspect they're right with that belief.
callmejellydog@reddit
Loads of pro Hamas here.
Xper10@reddit
Read the other response. One word: Delusional
chdjfnd@reddit
Which part is untrue?
Xper10@reddit
Read the last sentence of the post, Hezbollah is still active, lsraeI's economy is suffering, and finally Netanyahu was answering questions not about lran or nuclear programs etc., but he was talking about two states solution in the White House yesterday. A disaster! Also do you literally think that Hezbollah would have manpower shortages in the Middle East where the ->unpopular lsis had tens of thousands of members. Total strategic failure, like in the article above, but hey maybe those 7 lDF guys that burned in a tank for 3 hours last week are happy that some Hezbollah members were kiIIed??
Born-Procedure-5908@reddit
Israel’s economy is suffering, okay? Are we going to pretend Lebanon, Iran, Gaza, or Yemen have a good economy or am I tripping here.
Xper10@reddit
Of course not, but do you see what's happening? You are comparing lsraeIi advanced high-tech economy to the most abject states in the region. Moody's rating for lsraeI has been degraded to Baa1, one level above junk states. Yearly deficit 8%, when even THREE % means red flag. A disaster, if the normalisation, which they are avoiding, happens at this point the state will completely fall under GCC financial control.
Born-Procedure-5908@reddit
Of course, for any modern peace time developed state, Isreal’s economy is a disaster but considering the proximity of the war and how much they despise their neighbors and vice versa, it’s not like as if they’re willing to take that.
All sides are well aware of the cost of a war pivot for multiple years on end.
Xper10@reddit
lsraeI has two options left: reignite the war in Lebanon and letting rockets back or normalizing and falling under the GCC economic block, which translates to losing political sovereignty (Qatar and UAE sponosored politicians) and the chopping of Zionism and apartheid. Let's see where it will go
Xper10@reddit
Ok I'll explain last time what's happening there. The region is moving towards Vision 2030 or whatever, but basically economic boom. lsraeaI is an apartheid state that because of political instability wouldn't be top investment situation and would just start losing out to it's neighbours. (This is also why Syria was stabilised). Enter Oct. 7, lsraeaI can remove apartheid label by ethnically cleansing Gaza, GCC and AoR, basically lran, can damage lsraeI and make it dependent by damaging it enough. And the game os afoot. But as it progresses it is less likely that they will complete the ethnic cleansing. Hezbollah, Houthis, lran made sure to weaken lsraeI economically, and Egypt and Jordan made sure that it can't complete ethnic cleansing. So Oct. 6 was the best day for lsraeI to normalise but they didn't. Since then lsraeI's situation has gone from bad to worse. The West can't help even though they are trying but they understand that lsraeI really is under attack, but not militarily. It's being wrestled to fall under the GCC control and there's nothing they can do about it. It's not a militarily loss but it is a silent pillow like strangling of economic sovereignty. That's the war being waged, not nukes, complete destruction, Hezbollah is not targetting civilians etc. Let's see if they will manage to get out of the pillow of soft Zionism extinction, but so far Netanyahu didn't manage to achieve almost any of his real goals here
chdjfnd@reddit
Still active yet they’ve lost their most senior leaders and commanders. Theres a reason Nazrallah openly stated the pager attack was an unprecedented blow and why his son confirmed that he had been crying over it the weeks before he was killed in an Israeli strike, theres also a reason they’re struggling to fire rockets at anywhere near the level they were 2 years ago, same goes for Hamas
Israels still trading with most countries and is moving towards normalisation with others, their economy will be fine
Isis had 10s of thousands of members and still lost control of most of Syria in months because of heavy destabilisation
Xper10@reddit
You don't get the Hezbollah situation, so I'd recommend you read the post. Hezbollah will dissolve only after either military defeat, but not ceasefire, or after lsraeI gets integrated into the region under GCC, just like Syria fell under Turkey and Qatar, and not US and lsraeI. "Normalisation" is death of lsraeIi sovereignty, so that's why they are avoiding it. It means financial dependancy on GCC states.
Born-Procedure-5908@reddit
Hezbollah was touted to be capable of invading Northern Israel and sending thousands of missiles into Israel’s cities before the conflict and well, now they’re regarded as a weak militant group whose only saving grace is that they have a lot of manpower. Let’s not act like as if they haven’t taken a huge blow here because the damage they are inflicting is minimal compared to what analysts and supporters have claimed.
Xper10@reddit
Hezbollah still has capacities that are unused, just like lsraeaI has nukes, that aren't used. You can trust your media if you want, but if that were the case the US envoy above wouldn't be running around Lebanon trying to keep the ceasefire in place.
Born-Procedure-5908@reddit
What are you’re implying and saying doesn’t make sense.
Hezbollah’s last resort options are nowhere close to the level of nukes, nor would any alternatives like chemical weapons inflict more casualties then an Israeli nuclear attack. If they can easily sink an aircraft carrier or launch thousands of drones or rockets into Israel, they would’ve done it by now.
And didn’t they try launching rockets into Isreal since October 7th for an entire year straight with minimal results? If I was Hezbollah, I’ll have every justification to try to disarm Isreal’s military but it’s clear they don’t have the means to do so.
Xper10@reddit
Your thinking is childish and that's not how wars work. Thank you for your attention to this matter
callmejellydog@reddit
It’s not been a total loss to fair.
Daryno90@reddit
That was the goal along for the Israeli government. They are genocidal
Aenjeprekemaluci@reddit
This and expansion... Payed by Western taxmoney.
L0L303@reddit
Yeah lol thats kinda the point.. they have mass graves to show for it
shugthedug3@reddit
"Israel invades neighbour, again"
This beligerent, rogue nuclear, apatheid menace in the region needs to be dealt with.
The real ludicrous thing is they go around whining about how everyone hates them.
Decent_Cheesecake_29@reddit
What the fuck is this headline??
Israel Launches ~~New Ground Incursion in~~ Invasion of Lebanon, ~~Raising Fears for~~ Breaking Truce
It’s absolutely ridiculous how much news organizations bend over backwards to coddle Israel and try to justify their vicious and genocidal actions to an international audience.
JimbosForever@reddit
No... israel is enforcing the terms of this cease fire.
ijzerwater@reddit
they never kept their side
Working_Apartment_38@reddit
🤡
Ezflurry@reddit
Read what the terms of the ceasefire was…. - controm Hezbollah, or Israel will … diddnt break anything, not that you care probably… EVIL JEWS
N0riega_@reddit
Isreal’s popularity is in the toilet right now. They need all the help they can get when it comes to white washing their freak like behaviour.
Fearless_Prune_2310@reddit
Is this the same country that claims “all our neighbours hate us and we have no clue why”? Have they tried not killing, maiming, starving and bombing them for ten minutes?
throwawayyawaworth77@reddit
Well, there are the decades long stable peace treaties with their two largest neighbors, Egypt and Jordan. I think that would qualify.
SRGsergan592@reddit
That peace is only being sustained by U.S funneling money to keep 2 puppet dictators in place.
sulaymanf@reddit
Egypt has said that Israeli seizing the Philadelphi corridor is in violation of the peace treaty. Jordan is registering formal complaints about the treatment of Palestinians.
Raesh771@reddit
Have muslim countries tried not starting wars with Israel so it doesn't happen?
Fearless_Prune_2310@reddit
Elaborate. This should be good.
Raesh771@reddit
Go google how Gaza war started. I shouldn't have to teach you such basic stuff.
Fearless_Prune_2310@reddit
Typically I wouldn’t engage with anyone calling this a war or even categorizing occupied Palestine as a “Muslim” country but here we go.
It started as a jailbreak from being concentrated into an open air prison (Gaza) for 20+ years and before that, 70 years of brutal military occupation and apartheid.
2023 was the deadliest year for Palestinians in the West Bank. 1500 Palestinians murdered BEFORE October 7th in 2023 alone.
Seems like you have 75+ years of Googleable research to do yourself. Start with “the Nakba”.
Raesh771@reddit
Oh, so you agree Palestine started it?
Well, that was easy.
Fearless_Prune_2310@reddit
If your history starts and ends with October 7th then that’s on you bud. The history of Israel’s oppression is decades old. But you’re being willfully and happily ignorant and your profile is shockingly racist. Have the life you deserve!
860v2@reddit
They tried that before Israel was established. Palestinians still launched a war.
imunfair@reddit
Invade a region with intent of establishing your own sovereign nation and are surprised when the natives want to fight you...
chdjfnd@reddit
Buying land & having it allocated to you by those governing the land=invading a region
JMoc1@reddit
I wasn’t aware Nakba involved buying land. Why were Palestinians killed then and driven from their homes?
chdjfnd@reddit
Oh you mean the Nakba that happened after the Palestinians started a war over a partition plan they rejected (having spent the last 20 years refusing any jewish state in the Middle East and any jewish migration the region and massacring Jews like in 1920 Nebi Musa and 1929 Hebron?
JMoc1@reddit
The partition plan involved removing 60% of all land from Palestinians that they owned. And keep in mind that they made up 70% of the population at this time.
What you’re suggesting is a plan that would involve violent removal is a-okay, but it’s bad to fight against it. Especially when Palestinians fought the Ottomans for the freedom they were promised.
Regardless, does Israel’s protection require ethnic cleansing?
chdjfnd@reddit
The partition plan offered Arabs 55% of the land having offered them 80% in 1937, which they also rejected (despite having also been given all of Jordan which was originally a part of the mandate for Palestine, a fulfilment of the unconfirmed terms mentioned in the Hussein McMahon correspondence)
A plan that involved land swaps and resulted in Arabs taking over 80% of the total mandate is better than starting a war to take the whole land, losing and then saying “can we renegotiate from the 1948 lines again”
JMoc1@reddit
You say offered, but they would be losing land in this deal. Land that they lived and worked on. And that’s not even getting into what TYPE of land they were offered, mostly desert.
chdjfnd@reddit
They were offered the entirely of Jordan as well as the West Bank, including Jerusalem, Ramallah, Nablus, Hebron, the entire Gaza strip as well as the Negev and the entirely of Acre in the North.
Most of the desert was allocated to the Jewish state and was some of the hardest to work land
They continued to reject every favourable offer they were given, instead they chose to start wars each time. Historically, when people started wars and lost, they lost their land and given that the leadership knew that they were fighting to take all of Israel they also knew the risk of losing the land they did occupy.
JMoc1@reddit
Why would they be offered Jordan when Trans-Jordan was a separate country at this point under the Kingdom of Hussein?
You’re not making sense saying “they were offered”. This was a forced relocation effort on part of the British and Zionist paramilitaries terror groups.
Also, the plan was never agreed to and so the “Free State” militias resorted to Nakba as a solution.
chdjfnd@reddit
Jordan was a part of the original mandate for Palestine and a part of historic Palestine. 80% of the total mandate was given to the Arabs yet they continued to demand the entire region despite the coastal region not being included in the Hussein Mcmahon correspondence
They were offered though, there were negotiations throughout the 1920s, as well as offers in 1937 and 1947. Under these plans Jews would also have been resettled.
Yes the Palestinians rejected the 47 plan and it didn’t go into effect. They started a war, lost & Israel declared independence
JMoc1@reddit
You just said 55%.
Also…
So why lie?
chdjfnd@reddit
Jordan was a part of the original Mandate for Palestine as well as historic Palestine (as a region of Ottoman Syria) All of Jordan was given to the Arabs. The West Bank and Gaza were also offered to the Arabs. 55% of the land inside current Israel/ Palestine borders and over 80% of the original mandate
Wheres the lie? “They considered it violated” but it wasn’t because it was never a formalised agreement and because the land promised to the Jews under the Balfour declaration was land that had already been excluded from the borders set out under the Hussein McMahon correspondence
JMoc1@reddit
Jordan gain independence in ‘46 which was a year before the 1947 plan.
So how can you partition a country that already exists?
chdjfnd@reddit
Again, wheres the lie?
Yes that part of the mandate for Palestine was given to the Arabs, by the British, as was mentioned in Hussein-Mcmahon, and they established the state of Jordan. So again, the Arab population (500k at the time) living between what is now Jordan and Israel, were offered more than 80% of the total land the British inherited
JMoc1@reddit
You keep point to the partition plan reject as cause for Israel’s instigation of Nakba. However, Jordan was not part of the partition plan, that was only part of a British Agreement 30 years prior.
So do you think that Palestinians are Jordanians somehow? Because what you’re suggesting is that it’s okay to genocide because there are similar people next door.
chdjfnd@reddit
No the war the Palestinians started after rejecting the partition plan is what led to the Nakba
Jordan was a part of the original mandate for Palestine because it was historically governed as the region of Palestine in Ottoman Syria.
Jordanian and Palestinian Arabs are both Levantine Arabs, they are ethnically similar and there was significant overlap prior to the current borders being drawn up.
Not at all what I said
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Transjordan wasn't part of the original Mandate, it was tacked on a year later and pains were taken to keep the two separate. And not 'because it was historically governed as the region of Palestine in Ottoman Syria'.
chdjfnd@reddit
They had a mandate for the entire southern Levant but had already planned for the everything east of the Jordan River to be an arab state. The borders were drawn up by the British & French; historically Palestine, as a region, extended into West Jordan when it was Ottoman Syria
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Sure, as long as we're clear that it wasn't part of the original Mandate for Palestine and that its historical ties to Palestine weren't the reason Lord Curzon eventually agreed to include it.
chdjfnd@reddit
Yes because Britain had already agreed to give that specific region of the Levant to the Arabs in Jordan in 1915. The region of Palestine was not the entirety of the original Mandate for Palestine
Palestine and Jordan were both regions of Ottoman Syria
JMoc1@reddit
Jordan wasn’t in the ‘47 plan. I never asked about the mandate.
Regardless, you’re saying that it is okay to displace and genocide because Jordanians and Palestinians are part of the same ethnic groups. And I do mean groups, there weren’t just Arabs who were removed.
Thank you for being honest.
chdjfnd@reddit
I never said it was
You were claiming that land deals under the British mandate were unfavourable to the Arabs despite the fact that they had been given all of Jordan (as well as all of Syria and Lebanon by the French) and offered most of Israel
the 1937 offered 80/20 Arab/ Jews divide and the Arab leadership still said no
No I’m saying, historically, when offered a majority of land, rejecting it and starting a war to take all of it, puts you at risk of losing all of it
JMoc1@reddit
lol, you say you never said that and then you come back and say “you risk losing it all” meaning that, yes, you are okay with genocide.
Does “Never Again” only apply to Israelis in your mind?
chdjfnd@reddit
I never said Jordan was part of the 1947 plan
Yes you risk losing all of your land. Losing land isn’t genocide.
No, its just statements like that are for when theres actually a genocide going on, not just wars you don’t like the outcomes of
JMoc1@reddit
The Holocaust Museum calls forced displacement a part of the Cambodian genocide.
You’re telling on yourself my friend.
chdjfnd@reddit
“A part of” when taken as an action that falls under the 5 physical acts of the genocide convention and is done with the intent required under the genocide legislation
JMoc1@reddit
You’re trying to lawyer your way out of calling Israel’s actions a genocide when the actions and intent were to drive Palestinians from their homes.
You said it yourself, “they lose everything”.
chdjfnd@reddit
Yes because genocide is a legal term. It has to have been done with the intent required under the genocide convention for that act to be considered genocide
No they lost everything because they rejected the partition, rejected several other plans that were offered and very clearly rejected any Jewish state in the Middle East and tried to start a war to take all of the land.
JMoc1@reddit
Genoicde didn’t start as a legal term.
The convention on Genocide did not occur until 1948, which means Genocides like the Armenian and Namibian would not count.
You are trying to escape the meaning of a word by trying to make it a legal definition only.
chdjfnd@reddit
lemkin “was deeply disturbed by the absence of international provisions to charge and punish those who were responsible for organizing and executing it”when reading of the Armenian genocide and later the Holocaust.
“He also thought the law against genocide could promote more tolerant societies” so he coined the term for legal use then?
The term is a specific legal charge as codified under the genocide convention, therefore genocide is determined by legal authorities.
JMoc1@reddit
And? Do you want the Nakba charged as a crime of Genocide?
Because I would be on board. If you only recognize legalities and not moralities or definitions I would be on board to charge crimes of genocide.
chdjfnd@reddit
“And?” Do the facts about what genocide legally means and why it was first used as a term not matter?
If there is enough evidence for the ICJ to charge the Nakba as a genocide then no i wouldn’t have a problem with it
JMoc1@reddit
You are the only person who refuses to call it a genocide for legalities alone.
Furthermore the evidence is in the deed itself and the actions Israel took against Palestinians in preceding years. Genocide is both functionalist and intentionalist.
chdjfnd@reddit
Because a conviction for genocide (an inherently legal term as I said before) is determined by the legalities
JMoc1@reddit
Then the Armenian and Namibian genocides weren’t if that’s your argument.
chdjfnd@reddit
I never said it was
You were claiming that land deals under the British mandate were unfavourable to the Arabs despite the fact that they had been given all of Jordan (as well as all of Syria and Lebanon by the French) and offered most of Israel
Gatrigonometri@reddit
Can I get 20% of your wealth? Please say yes while I’m being nice or I’ll come back with my friend’s baseball bat and ask 45%
chdjfnd@reddit
This only works if that wealth is owned by someone else and my total share is 9%
Being offered 20% would be an increase
Thangoman@reddit
There already were terrotist zyonist groups before that, and the project of Israel was always thought as a way to bring "western civilization" to the region, settling it and replacing the original inhabitants
Buying land doesnt make the Israelis innocent
Would you like if suddenly the Russians occupied one of your cities after buying most properties?
chdjfnd@reddit
Almost like they were set up to protect Jewish settlements from attacks by the Arabs
No one said anything about innocence. Buying land and having a portion of the rest allocated is not “invading”
That only works if Russia reoccupied my country after fighting a war my country had started and lost & then offered me half of it & another half to Russians
Thangoman@reddit
They were terrorists, stop justifying terrorism as a pre-emptive action.
If we go by your logic every arab terrorist group is justified to "protect the arabs from the west"
Unilaterally claiming a bunch of land is a casus belli. Imagine that one of your province sudenly decided that Russians have the right to own it and the UN agreed with it, would you accept that?
chdjfnd@reddit
It wasnt pre emptive because these actions were taken in response to Arab vi
Thangoman@reddit
The violence of these groups wasnt just about defending Jews. Not at all.
Might makes right isnt a good justification
ugly_dog_@reddit
me when i lie
860v2@reddit
Ok, so you’re justifying them launching a war. This validates Israel’s right to defend themselves from that war.
StickyThickStick@reddit
The two neighbours that have a peace treaty with Israel Egypt and Jordan have a relatively decent relationship with Israel
BabylonianWeeb@reddit
Israel forced Egypt ans Jordan to accept it by stealing Egyptian Sinai and stealing Jordan river water
StickyThickStick@reddit
I’m not talking how the peace treaty was implemented. It was said that Israel attacks all it neighbours and I showed that the neighbours Israel has peace with are neither attacked and they have a relatively good relationship.
helio97@reddit
Because said neighbors are being paid off by much bigger western forces. For gods sake Egypt is the second largest recipient of us aid in the region and Jordan is pretty much an army base for Britain and America.
StickyThickStick@reddit
Yes that changes what? 😂 the point here is that it was said that Israel kept attacking its neighbours and I showed that the two not hostile neighbours aren’t being attacked
helio97@reddit
They're not being attacked because its much richer allies are paying off its neighbors and are also protecting said neigbors. It's not some kind of proof of Israëli love for peace, it merely shows that the west could stop Israeli aggression if it wanted to. Jordan and Egypt are only at peace because both them and Israel would actually be punished for aggression towards one another.
StickyThickStick@reddit
I don’t get your point so you say Israel is the baddy because the us pais neighbours to not attack Israel?
Before you say anything because this comment implies Israel is not the baddy I in fact think Israel is the baddy in some topics like Gaza
helio97@reddit
If the reason your neighbors don’t react to your clear violations of international law—or even help you violate those laws—is because they’re being paid off by bigger countries, that doesn’t mean your country is a rational actor. It just means that you have 2 neighbors that are acting as mercenaries next to you. Nor does it mean the neighbors who do react to your violations are wrong for fighting back against clear aggression. Even the original war between Israel and the Arab coalition was started after the Naqba. The Arabs have always been reacting to clear Jewish aggression. Jewish because said aggression and ethnic cleansing started before the creation of Israel.
StickyThickStick@reddit
So I understood it right?
helio97@reddit
Kind of its not the baddy because it's neighbors are getting paid off. It's the baddy because it keeps attacking all the neighbors that aren't paid off. But big man on the original comment was implying that because Egypt and Jordan are cool with Israel all the other states are just acting irrationally. Ignoring the fact that the reason they do not fuck with Israël is because they have a financial incentive.
StickyThickStick@reddit
Got you
Zipz@reddit
It’s really weird how you make peace seem like a bad thing
Let alone clearly israel has no issue with peace it’s the other side that has to be bribed
helio97@reddit
No issue with peace, but if your big brother has to pay off your neighbors to ignore your provocation maybe there's an issue. I don't know if it's racism or just ignorance, but blaming the whole conflict on other middle eastern states and keeping Israël blameless is real weird It has some major undertones of Jewish and white supremacy.
N0riega_@reddit
Talk to em 🗣️🗣️🗣️
Zipz@reddit
Lmfao
Imagine agreeing with the guy who through out racist BS
Just wait until you find out I’m middle eastern and not white like he claims.
Funny how that works
N0riega_@reddit
Famously people of colour and none white minorities aren’t capable of upholding white supremecist attitudes.
Zipz@reddit
No it’s just a stupid point that he brought up with zero evidence and even worse I’m not even any of the things he claims
It’s so funny the only bigots here are thee guy who made things about race/religion unprompted and you defending him
N0riega_@reddit
Yeah you’re right “those barbaric arabs need to be bribed in order to maintain peace unlike small bean isreal who can’t do no wrong” like wtf kinda braindead take is that mate. Thats the most white supremecist American exceptionalism shit Ive seen all day.
Zipz@reddit
You seem confused the side that is being payed off isn’t Israel in this situation.
If you want to be upset be upset at the sides who have to be bribed for peace.
Honestly it’s incredibly insulting that with zero evidence you make a claim that I’m racist. It’s actually wild how you tried that
sulaymanf@reddit
I wouldn’t characterize either as a good relationship. Israel backed the Egyptian dictator Mubarak to the very end, and supported Sisi’s coup against the democracy, and then violated the peace treaty by seizing the Philadelphi corridor and militarizing the border despite the dictatorship’s full cooperation.
StickyThickStick@reddit
That’s why I wrote relatively. Relative to its others neighbours which has been the topic here
sulaymanf@reddit
That’s even worse than other relationships in the region.
StickyThickStick@reddit
Damn I must have missed Egypt firing missiles into Israel
sulaymanf@reddit
I didn’t say it was the worst relationship in the region. Just that it’s worse than average.
StickyThickStick@reddit
Buddy we were talking about neighbours. Israel has 4 neighbours. Lebanon, Israel, Jordan and Egypt. Now I pointed out that the relationship between Israel and Egypt/Jordan is relatively good compared to the other 3. All three other nations shot rockets into Israel. So tell me where have I been wrong?
sulaymanf@reddit
And I answered above about relationships in the region. Just because Israel is a bad neighbor and gets into frequent fights doesn’t mean the Middle East is all unstable in comparison.
StickyThickStick@reddit
If you feel the need to change the topic mid discussion… Also I never said it’s an unstable region
Zipz@reddit
So peace can work with Israel got it
M
Ala117@reddit
It sure does just look at the west bank./s
Zipz@reddit
You do realize Hamas and other Palestinian militants exist in the west bank right?
Let alone both PA and Israel work together to get rid of them.
Ala117@reddit
We all know you and your ilk want palestinians to just submit to whatever terror israel subjects them to, you hate it when palestinians resist.
And support settler terrorism and ethnic cleansing, yea.
That the "peace" you're talking about?
Zipz@reddit
You ignored everything I said
Hamas in the westbank isn’t peaceful and they are doing pretty well with the PA who is mostly peaceful.
Ala117@reddit
You're ignoring israel terrorizing the west bank palestinians.
"every palestinian who doesn't peacefully submit to israel's terror in the west bank is a khamas terrorist"
This what you consider "peace". of course i don't want it nor does any human.
Obvious concern troll is obvious.
Zipz@reddit
And you did it again. You keep ignoring what I say and then keep trying to change the subject
It’s really wild. Like I said it’s pretty clear you don’t care about Palestinians you just hate isrealis. That’s really sad
Ala117@reddit
You keep ignoring israel terrorizing the west bank just to demonize palestinians who don't "peacefull" submit to israel's terror.
You support israel terrorizing and ethnically cleansing Palestinians and call anyone not happy about it "khamas", obvious concern troll is obvious.
Both are as bad as each other, nice false dilemma here terror supporter.
Zipz@reddit
Imagine thinking settler violence which has killed how many people over the last two years, is the same as 60k dead in gaza
You make zero sense and this is why its very clear you do not care about palestinians.
Ala117@reddit
False dilemma again, both are bad and i oppose unlike you.
It's funny you accusing me of projecting while that's what you just did, you don't just not care about Palestinian you delight in their suffering.
That's fucking rich coming from you. Read you own replies next time.
Zipz@reddit
I mean you are the one saying they are the same.
Clearly they aren’t it’s weird how you advocate for what is happening in Gaza to happen in the West Bank.
Again that makes you a shitty person
Ala117@reddit
Yes, both are bad and i oppose them unlike you.
Also you
Indeed you are a shitty person.
Zipz@reddit
Damn again deflecting and trying to gaslight other people
You clearly are not only genocidal but liar also
RockstepGuy@reddit
Yeah how dare they invade a country and then use that leverage to make peace, what a bunch of sick individuals, invading places to make long peace.
I mean just imagine not being at war with the je- Israel, what a sickening tought, they should all be trhowing themselves to Israel and ding in droves so then more and more people keep dying until there is no one left.
Ala117@reddit
Cool it with the antisemitism buddy.
N0riega_@reddit
Also by being a US/western puppet but that’s neither here nor there.
sulaymanf@reddit
Egypt has said that Israeli seizing the Philadelphi corridor is in violation of the peace treaty. Jordan is registering formal complaints about the treatment of Palestinians, and the Israeli far right has called for seizing both lands as part of Greater Israel.
PainterRude1394@reddit
All their neighbors don't hate them. Its mostly Irans terrorist proxies.
The issue is Iran wanted to stop Israel from normalizing relations with uae, Saudi Arabia, etc and so empowered it's terrorist proxies to start a war to destabilize the region.
Hopefully one day folks will care more about improving Palestinians lives than sacrificing them for Israel bads.
crusadertank@reddit
You keep defending Israel in this thread but "They made is do a genocide" isnt the defence you think it is
860v2@reddit
There is no genocide. You’re just parroting TikTok talking points.
AlayneKr@reddit
And you’re just parroting Hasbara talking points. Go ahead, keep defending the massacre of children, it makes you look really smart and compassionate.
860v2@reddit
Nope, I’m basing my comment on the definition of genocide. Something that you don’t know.
AlayneKr@reddit
Well according to the United Nations Special Committee and Amnesty International it is, so I guess you know more than them. My bad…
860v2@reddit
Yes. Also, that’s not an argument.
You can’t define genocide in your own words. Not sure why you think you’re in a position to make any accusations.
AlayneKr@reddit
Didn’t know I was speaking to a highly educated genocide scholar.
You’ve yet to give a definition, but I’ll give you mine, which is a violence that targets a group of people with the goal to eliminate them. Israel, with much aid from the US, is to eliminate Gaza and turn it into a shoreline of Israel. Trump released a whole ass video on it.
I’m in the position to make those accusations because I’m an American tax payer and those are my taxes funding this shit. No taxation without representation, kinda what the U.S. was founded on.
860v2@reddit
Thank you.
No, it isn’t. You just made that up.
Paying taxes does not give you free rein to make baseless accusations.
AlayneKr@reddit
That’s literally from Wikipedia, but I forgot you’re a genocide expert. Can the people in Gaza currently freely leave? Who controls their aid and borders?
And it sure as shit does my friend, it’s no taxation without representation and freedom of speech. I’ll stop giving opinions on Israel when the U.S. quits sending money.
860v2@reddit
No, because there’s a war. But you’re changing the subject. You claimed that the goal was to “eliminate Gaza”. I disproved that above.
Well, you’re wrong. You don’t get to spew disinformation/misinformation just because you pay taxes.
AlayneKr@reddit
Oh, so they are trapped and can’t leave. Got it. Can Israeli’s leave Israel? It’s a war. And literally in that quote, the next quote is about how other countries should take the Gaza citizens as refugees, why would they need to do that?
I’m 100% not wrong on that my rights. I don’t believe what I’m saying is false at all, but even if it was, I get to say it. It sounds like you might be into taxation without representation, but America was founded on that and I believe in it 100%.
860v2@reddit
Yes, because Israelis aren’t using their ability to leave to commit terrorist attacks.
You’re objectively wrong, not just on the I/P stuff but also the “right” to lie part.
Stubbs94@reddit
Is it only Genocide if it happens in the genocide region of France? Is this just sparkling extermination?
860v2@reddit
That’s not an argument.
Stubbs94@reddit
I'm not arguing, I'm mocking people like you who support genocide.
860v2@reddit
Yes, that’s why I pointed it out. You can’t even define genocide in your own words, yet you’re accusing Israel of committing genocide and people of being genocide supporters.
Stubbs94@reddit
Why would I use my own words when there's a legal definition? Israel is attempting to destroy in whole or in part the population of Gaza.
860v2@reddit
A legal definition that you don’t comprehend. That’s my entire point.
Stubbs94@reddit
Of course. I am just agreeing with the experts and human rights groups... As opposed to war criminals.
860v2@reddit
Thank you for proving my point.
Stubbs94@reddit
I'm sure I did.
chdjfnd@reddit
Its not a genocide lil bro
Stubbs94@reddit
Yep, it's a sparkling extermination campaign.
imunfair@reddit
You: "Well technically it's just ethnic cleansing with a side order of starvation to motivate them..."
860v2@reddit
It’s not that, either. You don’t know what either of those terms mean.
imunfair@reddit
hmm, let's check that.
And the verdict from a quick google search is....
... that I do indeed seem to know what it means.
860v2@reddit
You know so much yet left out the most important part: intent.
Just moving people during a war isn’t ethnic cleansing.
imunfair@reddit
If we were talking about moving people to safety during a war you might have a point, unfortunately that's just a deflection you invented with no basis, they were clear there is no right of return - the intent is permanent deportation.
860v2@reddit
Nope, you just made that up.
The fact that you don’t know that intent is central to determining whether something is ethnic cleansing, genocide, etc. invalidates your entire position.
imunfair@reddit
You just lie and lie and lie:
Weird how Netanyahu supports that plan and yet you say I can't understand his "intent". Israel has made no secret of the intent - one Israeli state that absorbs every single inch of what was formerly Palestinian territory. That's why the mere suggestion of a two-state solution makes him so upset, he plans to take all of that second non-Israeli-state land by hook or crook.
PainterRude1394@reddit
Mentioning why Iran started the war to destabilize the region by sacricing Palestinians for Israel bads is not defending Israel. Its stating why Iran destabilized the region.
crusadertank@reddit
You are blaming the deaths of all of these people on Iran. But nobody is forcing Israel to shoot innocent people and invade multiple countries
PainterRude1394@reddit
No, I am not doing that. Take a deep breath and reread what I wrote.
Stubbs94@reddit
Iran forced Israel to occupy Palestine?
crusadertank@reddit
You should try to read slowly.
Iran did not make Israel shoot/bomb/drone/starve innocent people. Nobody forced them to do this
Israel is perfectly capable of not doing this if they wanted to.
Sperabo@reddit
Israel destabilized the region by existing and settling on someone else’s land through ethnic cleansing.
jARjARnEELIX@reddit
tHeY hATe oUr JuICe!!!! /s
Bloaf@reddit
They did, actually! During that time the Gaza residents killed each other in their place (~600 of in infighting.)
Champagne_of_piss@reddit
Blowing up kids is the only way bibi can get an erection
mga92@reddit
The only democracy in the Middle East, they have e~~l~~rections.
PlebEkans@reddit
At this point you might be right.
Sperabo@reddit
Israel is a parasite to the Middle-East - an absolute joke.
I truly hope that we continue to pressure our western governments into stopping all aid for these monsters. The MENA region deserves prosperity and peace.
Please abolish that abomination and let the Palestinians come back to their land.
lennoco@reddit
Syria civil war: 400k civilians murdered
Yemen war: 400k civilians murdered
Redditors: ISRAEL a MONSTER and is why there's NO peace in the MIDDLE EAST
Sperabo@reddit
2 things can be true at once: what you said doesn’t disprove that Israel is a cancer to this world, let alone the MENA region.
lennoco@reddit
Do you realize how many devices you use a day are using Israeli technology?
You know that Israel has contributed massive advancements in computer science, medical science, healthcare, irrigation, etc.?
Arab citizens in Israel have the highest quality of life and more democratic rights than anywhere else in the region.
The level of frothing at the mouth hate towards Israel is quite frankly cultish at this point. It relies so heavily on ignorance about geopolitics and the history of Israel and the region in general.
SurfiNinja101@reddit
This is like saying “yeah Hitler was awful but did you know he created the microphone?!”
Sperabo@reddit
“Man Fascism is really fucked up but did you see the advancements they made in medicine and science?”
Get the fuck out of here, genocide-supporter.
lennoco@reddit
Voting, free speech, representation — try finding that in Saudi Arabia or Egypt. Compare life expectancy, access to healthcare, universities, social services, etc. Is it perfect? No. But calling Israel a "cancer" while ignoring authoritarian regimes next door is just unhinged and wildly hypocritical.
Maybe for their next technological innovation, they can invent something to clean up all the froth around your mouth.
Sperabo@reddit
Again, multiple things can be true at once - the existence of Israel being a cancer on the MENA region (a fact), it being a tool for the west to create instability in the MENA region (a fact), and it also contributing to science (like the Nazis did).
Also, did you forget the Apartheid state in the West Bank? Where Arabs are under military rule? Oh do you mean ISRAEL PROPER? Where the arab turnout is critically low “for some reason”?
Keep trying to defend the indefensible, maybe the next technological advancement the world should work on is a cure for the brainworms that you obviously have to defend genocide, prick.
lennoco@reddit
What apartheid? Israelis and Palestinians are not citizens of the same country. They're separate peoples with separate governments. Gaza is run by Hamas, the West Bank by the Palestinian Authority. Israelis can't vote in elections in the West Bank and Gaza, and Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza can't vote in Israeli elections.
Meanwhile, all Israeli citizens (Arab, Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Black, White, etc.) have full equal rights within Israel and can vote in elections, serve in the government, etc. A Muslim judge literally sent a Jewish former Prime Minister to prison. Apartheid?
Israel has offered multiple two-state solutions such as the 2000 Camp David Summit, the 2000 Clinton Parameters, the 2001 Taba deal, the 2008 Olmert Plan. And every single time, Palestinian leadership either rejected the offer outright or walked away without a counterproposal, and instead escalated violence in response.
Maybe if the Palestinian leadership had ever once actually tried to negotiate a two-state solution rather than escalate violence, they wouldn't be under military occupation.
Sperabo@reddit
Maybe if Israel didn’t forcefully take away Palestinian homes with the help of the West, there wouldn’t be any military occupation you fucking nimrod.
How do you even have the gall talk about two-state solutions when settlements were already very much established in the West Bank by 2000 - always the same cop out “but we offered two state solution :) :) :) :)”
Get your fucking parasites out of the West Bank first? But that won’t happen because the settlements are a political tool for Israel to isolate Palestinians.
So instead, delete Israel off of the map AND get your fucking parasites out of the West Bank. Let the Palestinians back to their homes, monster.
lennoco@reddit
Looks like the unhinged response you wrote got deleted by Reddit. Care to try again?
lennoco@reddit
Imagine thinking you're the morally righteous one while calling people "parasites" and ranting about deleting a country off the map. You're espousing genocidal, dehumanizing rhetoric and somehow thinking you're righteous while doing so.
Israel has offered multiple two-state solutions such as the 2000 Camp David Summit, the 2000 Clinton Parameters, the 2001 Taba deal, the 2008 Olmert Plan. And every single time, Palestinian leadership either rejected the offer outright or walked away without a counterproposal.
And the offers listed above were only the ones that were formal offers — at other junctures, Israeli governments attempted to open talks to lead towards Palestinian autonomy, and yet were rejected (see: The Three No's from the Arab League ["No Peace, No Recognition, No Negotiations]).
For example, in 2000, the Israelis offered a deal that included:
LAND AND JERUSALEM
REFUGEES
SECURITY
Palestinian leadership rejected it without a counteroffer, and launched the Second Intifada.
RogueAOV@reddit
So the truce involves daily attacks by Israel, and recommencing ground 'incursions' 'raises fears' the truce will not continue?
Just checking on the definition before i take this sharpie to my dictionary.
Prosthemadera@reddit
Israel and Hezbollah have a ceasefire agreement but Israel attacks them anyway and yet the ceasefire is still upheld by Hezbollah?
I mean, realistically, why would it hold up if one side breaks it? But I'm sure Israel has a reason for it, like always.
waiver@reddit
Yeah, “ceasefire” feels like a PR stunt at this point. Israel didn’t put its weapons down—instead, it just turned the volume down a notch while still bombing southern Lebanon, carrying out airstrikes and raids like clockwork. Meanwhile, Lebanese civilians are stuck in limbo, dodging drone surveillance and watching border villages get shelled. The media barely blinks, officials shrug, and somehow this still gets called a “truce.” It’s exhausting watching history loop in real time.
SaneForCocoaPuffs@reddit
The truce requires Hezbollah to withdraw north of the Litani.
If Israel conducts military operations against Hezbollah in southern Lebanon, BOTH sides are violating the truce. There should be exactly zero Hezbollah targets in the area.
The truce goes both ways. If North Korea stationed troops in the DMZ and South Korean troops went in and shot at them, we would not say “South Korea launches ground incursion into DMZ violating truce!!!”
lennoco@reddit
Yuuuup.
The UN said nothing when Hezbollah was actively in areas they had agreed not to be in and shooting rockets at Israel/building tunnels, but the minute Israel entered to deal with the threat, they started screaming about it.
JimbosForever@reddit
What a fucking bunch of terrorist supporters ITT. And NYT is not helping here.
"Against what it claims are hezbollah targets"???
Who else the fuck in Lebanon would israel be attacking?
Israel is well with its rights, within the terms of the ceasefire agreement, to prevent hezbollah from returning to its positions in south lebanon if the Lebanese army neglects to do so or is incapable of doing so.
And the Lebanese army, despite showing a bit more backbone this time around, have hardly been eager or effective at preventing hezbollah of doing anything they want.
As long as Hezbollah is working to return to the south of lebanon, its already breaking the ceasefire terms. They don't get to bitch about it after Israel responds.
nickchecking@reddit
I notice you didn't address Israel's own breaking of the ceasefire terms: "But the Israeli military has held onto five positions along the border in violation of the agreement". Then Hezbollah is well within THEIR rights to stop Israel?
JimbosForever@reddit
No... hezbollah is not the legal protector of lebanon. The Lebanese army is. Hezbollah has no rights whatsoever, in fact.
If hezbollah didn't start returning into south lebanon basically the moment the ceasefire was signed, and the Lebanese army deployed as it was supposed to, the IDF wouldn't need to stay there.
But hey, i'm still optimistic it will happen. If only you idiots stop legitimizing hezbollah. A terrorist organization acting on behalf of a foreign regime that has taken a whole country hostage just to turn it into a staging ground for attacks against a much stronger neighbor.
Working_Apartment_38@reddit
Hezbollah is from south Lebanon you idiot.
How about you return all the occupied lands first?
Halbaras@reddit
Is there any other country that gets described like this when it comes to believing they have a god given right to bomb their neighbours?
Fearless_Prune_2310@reddit
Literally none. And all western governments are complicit in upholding this rogue state. It’s up to us to remind the world that we reject this terror in every form.
Lufsol66@reddit
51st state talks about rogue states, quite rich. I am sure it hurts when your terrorist buddies are getting bombed. We need to think about their feelings, right?
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AlayneKr@reddit
I’d say the U.S., but Israel is pretty much just the U.S.
Zellgun@reddit
And people wonder why armed militant groups exist there
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