Russia Makes As Much Ammo in 3 Months As NATO in a Year: Mark Rutte
Posted by shieeet@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 353 comments
Posted by shieeet@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 353 comments
VintageGriffin@reddit
Schrodinger's Russia is simultaneously both weak and running out of ammo any day now, when the argument comes to prolonging the conflict for as long as possible - and an industrial powerhouse that's outproducing the entire west by an order of magnitude when the otherwise unpopular increase in domestic military spending needs to be justified somehow.
Forget about Russia, North Korea alone out produces the west in terms of ammunition. Imagine if they are given advanced blueprints for more sophisticated stuff than regular artillery shells.
All the while Europe chest thumps and talks a lot of mad shit about their GDPs and how powerful they are, while severely lacking in actual industrial and manufacturing capacity to back it all up. Stocks, the service industry, and a whole lot of zero-sum paper pushing can produce a lot of big GDP numbers that won't buy you a loaf of bread, a bullet, a tank or a plane if there are none of these things up for sale because the manufacturing cannot keep up, or is simply nonexisting.
Chroma_primus@reddit
I mean russia switch to awar economy of course they are outproducing europe. And for how much russians are boasting about their achievements over the west they are barely winning.
As for the resilience of the russian economy they are plagued by Labor shortages https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/07/07/russian-potato-shortage-shows-putins-economy-is-on-brink/ 10% Inflation and eye watering21% interest Rates https://re-russia.net/en/analytics/0242/
b0_ogie@reddit
Russia did not switch to a military economy. They only hired an additional shift at the existing plants to work around the clock. There were no major transformations or retraining of factories. Currently, Russia spends about 6-7% of its GDP on military needs.
The problem of the Russian economy is that real wages are growing too fast. After the departure of Western companies, the market became free and provided huge growth opportunities for Russian companies in the domestic market. The amount of investment in the economy became exorbitant, businesses began to actively borrow from the central bank, and everything quickly came to the point where the amount of money in the economy became simply enormous.
The central bank tried to stop this by making money very expensive for businesses (21%). But the growth reserve turned out to be huge. As soon as the Russian economy digests the restructured economy and the central bank's rates are lowered, Russia will return to the 4-5% GDP growth that the Central Bank so badly scared in 2023.
Chroma_primus@reddit
Yes it is only 7% of the GDP of russia but represents around 30% of the anual budget.
Anthoer Marke is that the Sovereign wealth Fund of the Russian federation iis almost empty.
Higher wages are also aproduct of skilled worker shortages.
Weird_Point_4262@reddit
That's how state budgets work you haven't presented anything new here. Germany currently spends 13% of its budget on military, if it goes up to the 5% NATO demand it will also be around 30%
Chroma_primus@reddit
1,5% of the nato 5% Marked are for critical infrastructure like hospitals and roads. Russias Military budget has been balloning since the 2010s. It is a strong indicator that they have no Design for peace and relly increasingly on the Military industri.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
Dude, are you even recognizing the problem?
This article demonstrates that Russia is not about to collapse or run out of X.
We have been lied to.
Chroma_primus@reddit
Nobody said that russia is shortly collapsing or running out of weapons or amunition.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
Literally everyone has been saying that.
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/ukraine-news-russia-missile-iranian-drone-strikes-kyiv-zaporizhzhia-putin/
If they use Gerans it’s apparently because they ran out of missiles.
https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-running-short-of-long-range-missiles-ukraine-war/
https://www.newsweek.com/russia-may-run-out-missiles-three-months-intelligence-report-1777217
2023 - will run out in 3 months
https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4931629-a-russian-economic-meltdown-is-coming-next-year/amp/
Russia economic meltdown in 2025.
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/2025-year-russia-runs-out-tanks-fight-ukraine-211947
I think this sums up the mainstream view:
https://www.csis.org/analysis/will-united-states-run-out-javelins-russia-runs-out-tanks
Will Ukraine run out of javelins before Russia runs out of tanks.
That is how we view it. As a mathematical comparison.
Chroma_primus@reddit
They still use iranian drones also Things from China and the russian economy is forcasted to go into recesion next year paired with the empting of the Sovereign wealth Fund. And of course Experte can err like when Russia equipt their Initial force with parade uniforms and caputer khiev in 3 weeks.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
Germany has been in recession since 2023.
Yet Russian economic growth has steadily increased.
Chroma_primus@reddit
Yes but russias economy is sligthly worse then italy, with high coruption https://indem.ru/satarov/satarov_levin/corruption.htm#1
High brain drain https://fiia.fi/en/publication/the-brain-drain-from-russia
Aging and decling Population http://demographia.ru/articles_N/index.html?idR=71&idArt=1928
http://www.nbr.org/publications/element.aspx?id=446
All long term negative ternds.
BallisticFiber@reddit
They don't use Iranian drones, they used some of them at first supply then used blueprints to manufacture their own drones based on iranian drones. Iran doesn't supply them with drones
Boner-Salad728@reddit
You were unfrozen recently from secret german bunker in the Arctic, right?
Collapse:
https://united24media.com/latest-news/russia-could-face-economic-collapse-by-end-of-2025-ukraines-intel-chief-warns-8639
https://nationalinterest.org/feature/ukraine-and-russias-collapsing-home-front-213869
https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/12/08/ukraine-russia-war-escalation-collapse-victory-baltic-poland-putin-imperialism/
Out of weapons:
https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-running-short-of-long-range-missiles-ukraine-war/
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2025/2/14/is-russia-running-out-of-weapons-and-manpower-for-its-war-in-ukraine
https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2022/12/russia-could-run-out-reliable-rockets-artillery-shells-early-next-year-pentagon-says/380794/
sblahful@reddit
If you read only headlines, then sure, you could get the impression that Russia is both producing a massive amount and is running out of stuff. The reality is a mix of both. There's a great breakdown on exactly what Russia is producing and where it's coming from, and what it has left of old soviet stock, in this video from an Australian defence analyst. Highly recommend his stuff.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TzR8BacYS6U
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
Ah yes. Let me listen to another YouTube channel claiming to know Russian production and usage.
Pretty amazing when journalists aren’t allowed 50km near the front on the Ukrainian side.
Bonus points for a channel that used to say exactly what I am talking about
Hyndis@reddit
NATO just agreed to spend 5% of their GDP on defense: https://www.dw.com/en/nato-members-agree-to-increase-defense-spending-to-5/a-73000676
Thats not a dissimilar number to Russia's 7% GDP spending.
beefprime@reddit
NATO already dramatically outspends Russia on defense, and this probably will not help. Where will that extra money go when western countries have no real ability to expand production? They have allowed their industry to atrophy and now their defense landscape is filled with wonder weapons and high tech gadgets while simple and fundamental things like raw artillery shell production lags far behind.
The west (if its serious about having a functional military response to anything) needs to put alot of effort into expanding its industrial/manufacturing base again and to retain that base instead of allowing it to escape to whatever low labor country du jour they are exploiting abroad.
soggybiscuit93@reddit
US defense spending also goes towards maintaining very expensive capabilities that Russia does not have, such as 11 Super Carrier Fleets, A Global Logistics Footprint, a much larger Space Prescence, etc.
Russian land doctrine centers around massed Artillery and their defense industrial base follows. NATO doctrine centers around air power and their industrial base goes to support that.
Massed artillery fire is cheaper and can readily be used by conscripted forces. Air Power is expensive and not easily replacable.
Ukraine highlights the pros and cons of both approaches. The downside of this Air Power first doctrine is that NATO can't just give it to Ukraine. It would require 100's of $Billions and years of investment and training. The downside of Russia's artillery first doctrine is that they're stuck in an attritional, costly trench war that they likely would've won already if only they had NATO airpower.
Just look at Russia's strike packages. They simply can't muster large, coordinated air campaigns or SEAD.
beefprime@reddit
I absolutely agree with everything you say here.
In addition: The Russian approach is very favored in the sort of attritional ground war that Ukraine/Russia are now involved in, whereas the US/NATO approach is favorable in terms of short, sharp wars like the first Iraq invasion, or in longer bombing campaigns against undeveloped nations where there isn't much chance of retaliation.
However I think in addition to the Ukraine/Russia conflict highlighting the inadequacy of western military power in any potential eastern European theatre, the Iran/Israel and to a bit lesser extent US/Yemen conflicts have revealed some major weaknesses as these undeveloped nations adopt a low cost retaliatory offensive capability using low cost drone swarms and missile volleys to overwhelm effective but extremely expensive and slow to produce interceptor systems to hit vital targets like ground facilities in Israel or potentially US naval assets like carriers.
Basically to sum up: the way western power has developed seems to be reaching a dead end as the techniques developed by Iran and Russia appear capable of inflicting major damage/deterrence against western projected power even if these new low cost strategies can't actually inflict any real offensive defeats on the west. If the west wants to really push things (which I wouldn't recommend as I think its both practically and morally wrong), they will need to figure something out and really commit to attritional low cost warfare and find out how to implement it offensively, otherwise these more resilient states like Iran/Russia/China can simply play hedgehog and let any offensive western action punish itself by inflicting disproportionate economic costs on the west, even if the west uses proxies like Ukraine and Israel to perform the actual dying part of the attrition.
soggybiscuit93@reddit
The west's hands are tied only because of Russia's nuclear deterance. In a hypothetical situation where nuclear weapons are off the table and the west joined the conflict, they wouldn't commit resources to static attrition in south east Ukraine.
They'd use maneuver warfare across the the vast landscape north of there that Russia lacks the manpower to defend while also engaging in static combat to the south.
The west's approach to warfare is still the superior option. Ukraine just lacks an economy large enough to employ it fully.
And as for hedgehog defenses, that's quite literally what Ukraine is doing. By all metrics that can be visually confirmed, Russia is taking dispropotionally higher losses as the force attacking static defenses.
Ukraine lacks the ability to conduct large scale air strikes strikes on command nodes, rear logistics, and factories. Ukraine lacks the ability to threaten Russia from the Baltic or Scandanavian border.
beefprime@reddit
All this is correct, which is why I say the west simply isn't going to win in eastern Europe unless they commit to a more direct attritional strategy (i.e. they can't fully commit their military assets due to the threat of nuclear retaliation, and their strategic setup doesn't really work when going through a third party proxy).
As for hedgehog re: Russia/Ukraine, you are right that Russia is taking disproportionate losses, but its not looking like its enough that Russia will lose or give up on its objectives. Russia has a much deeper pool of manpower and a much better grasp of the low budget/persistent ground war parts of the conflict and that's what is going to determine who controls what ground in the end, Ukraine has more to worry about than just racking up a favorable kill ratio (or $ expended ratio).
More importantly than the above is that the real difference here is that for Ukraine and Russia, Iran, Yemen, etc, these conflicts are EXISTENTIAL, for them, money is no object. For the US and the west these are conflicts over profits. They want to open up markets and countries to exploit, so it is inherently an economic balance. The benefits of the conflict will be weighed against the potential costs. That is why the hedgehog strategy of economic harm is relevant as a defense against western power, whereas for Russia is is less relevant, because Russia sees NATO incursion into Ukraine as an existential threat.
Chroma_primus@reddit
Yes nato agreet to that to get europe ready to defend itself.
b0_ogie@reddit
The higher wages were the result of sanctionary tactics in the first place. Previously, it was advantageous for Russia to engage in dumping on the total value of labor, which gave a competitive advantage to goods produced in Russia on the domestic market. This helped the domestic business to develop in conditions of monopoly of large corporations.
Thanks to the sanctions and the liberation of markets, this has become less relevant. If you compare nominal GDP and GDP at purchasing power parity, then you can estimate how big the dumping was.
Aren't funds created for such servants? If the money in the fund runs out, the state will start taking loans from itself, destroying its statehood and social policy - for Germany or the US.
Chroma_primus@reddit
Yes the effects you montiert are also a part of the rise in wages for russians. However you Pointen it out yourself now that they don't dump prices These Business are put under pressure.
With the Sovereign wealth Fund you are right again that they are created for specific purpises like this however, that it is projected to run dry in the next year is allarming for the russian economy.
Boner-Salad728@reddit
Written german accent guy! Sup! I like you, you are coolenkopf.
Chroma_primus@reddit
i'm just Bad at english
Boner-Salad728@reddit
You are complete Furher of English bro, its wunderbar! Keep it this way, thats totally charming.
Dpek1234@reddit
Doesnt lineup with the multi % drop in unemployment
Thats litteral millions
b0_ogie@reddit
You greatly overestimate the employment of people in military factories. However, not all military factories have to work around the clock. I believe that the total number of employees in the military-industrial complex is unlikely to have increased by more than 400-500k.
In addition, Russia has turned the production of shells into a private business. Any factory with unused machines can take an order and produce blanks of shells, receiving money for it. This makes it possible to use the borrowed capacities of private companies, and at the same time there is no need to build new plants.
soggybiscuit93@reddit
How did your entire analysis of this fact fail to even mention the impact that mobilization has had on the available supply of labor?
b0_ogie@reddit
Because this impact is minimal, there are 80 million workers in Russia. The fact that 300k people were mobilized to the front and 700k more volunteered reduced the number of able-bodied people by 1%. At the same time, due to the demographic crisis of 1990-2000, the number of able-bodied people decreased by 10 million, which is already 10%.
Those involved in military operations certainly have an impact, but it is nothing compared to the crisis of decline in the 90s.
soggybiscuit93@reddit
The demographic crisis is certainly an issue. Drawing over 1 million people from that same generation impacted by that crisis absolutely has an impact.
Russia's unemployment rate is around 3% and their wages are rising rapidly. That's literally proof of a labor shortage in and of itself.
We're not going to agree on what % the war has caused that impact, as not all labor is equal or eligible for conscription, but we should at least be able to agree that it is a contributing factor in some regard. And that has to include the 500K - 1M people who emigrated out of russia because of that war.
And a lot of numbers I see online show labor pool at 75K, minimum military surge at at least 1 million (conscription and recruitment), and emigration at up to 1 million.
So over 2% of the labor force, mostly younger workers. Not to mention military factories competing with the private sector for employees.
b0_ogie@reddit
The main age of a fighter is 35-40 years old (according to obituary statistics). This is the pre-crisis generation. You're talking about people who left Russia, but you're forgetting about people who come to Russia from all over the former USSR Russia retains its population thanks to them.
VintageGriffin@reddit
Why do you think there is a labor shortage at all?
I'll give you a hint: it's not because the people are dying, at least, by far not the primary cause - it's because so much new stuff is being built with oligarch money that there aren't enough people to do it all with.
Russia is doing pretty good considering that they are being hit with the largest sanctions package known to man, while simultaneously having a large portion of their previously existing contracts and supply chains severed all at the same time. It takes time to build new frameworks, and Russia is recovering from this. They have something that just about any other country in the world doesn't: near complete autarky.
The west sacrificed a lot of things on their end by placing bets on this economic nuclear bomb of sanctions collapsing Russia quickly, but it hasn't worked. West doesn't have the endurance to keep this game up. You will see them start backing away from it; USA already does.
Dizzy_Response1485@reddit
Aka Nationalization & Dekulakization 2.0 : Electric Boogaloo
The new framework:
The best part? Putin ORDERED his officials to now allow recession. Now that recession is forbidden, there's no way this will go tits up!
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
So this is an example of the typical mindset that causes so many problems. It is the mindset that Russia is weak, it is losing, it is about to collapse.
This is the common mindset many people in the West adopt due to larger insecurities with themselves.
We see the exact same thing with China. The tempo of “China is falling” articles continues to increase as they close the gap with America.
https://en.thebell.io/no-russia-isnt-about-to-run-out-of-money/
the liquid part of the NWF should increase by 50% thanks to an injection of about 1.4 trillion rubles ($16 billion) in oil-and-gas revenues due to arrive in the summer.
Secondly, the NWF is not used for government spending (although there are some exceptions). Its main role is to help balance the impact of the government’s fiscal policy, and provide a financial cushion in an unexpected crisis (like a long-term drop in oil prices, or a sudden, inescapable hike in spending).
Russia can and is funding this war via taxation. Russian tax revenues have actually increased since the war began since sanctions forced Russian oligarchs to move their fortunes back home and could not escape taxes.
For example, Iraq got 97% of its government revenues from oil.
Russia might get 25% to 30% of its government revenue from oil.
We usually have rationing of food during wars.
Food inflation in Europe and the West is absolutely ridiculous.
Dizzy_Response1485@reddit
What war? I thought it's a special military operation? That's 10 years in Chelyabinsk gulag for discrediting the russian armed forces.
Ukraine is not rationing food btw.
Newsflash: the West doesn't have $120 pensions
ReturnPresent9306@reddit
Good thing they didn't say that then, or you would look really stupid.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
Ok. Go back to your YouTube videos about how Russia will collapse any day now.
We will see you in a year if the cognitive dissonance doesn’t burn you out
soggybiscuit93@reddit
A lot of the "Sanctions are gonna destroy Russia's economy tomorrow!" Articles were very clickbaity. Sanctions absolutely are having an impact: 10% inflation with 20% interest rates. Plenty of capital controls in place, like mandatory foreign currency conversion, repatriation, they've shutdown stock trading numerous times for weeks at a time, etc.
Russia's economy is the equivalent of an adrenaline shot. Sanctions are very much like "I've shut off your heat, so now you'll freeze" "nope, I've got tons of furniture to burn in my fireplace!"
Chroma_primus@reddit
The us has not beacked away from sanctions trump changes his oppinions just so frequently. Olligarch money is party fulling the wareconomy of russia that is true however if it was the only factor it would not explain the eye watering interest Rates that are in place to combat inflation.
theBadRoboT84@reddit
agreed, but brother please use commas
BallisticFiber@reddit
lmao, me ded after this comment :D
Chroma_primus@reddit
Sorry i'm Bad at english.
Arrow156@reddit
And I'm sure they are just thrilled about emptying their coffers. /s
VintageGriffin@reddit
Of course they are.
Money that is just sitting around and not being used to make even more money is dead money. You don't become rich by getting your hands on a million dollars and putting it under your bed.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
This is a poor analysis of Russia unfortunately.
It is trying to find some metrics that are different from ours to argue what we want to be true in our heads; that Russia is losing and we are winning.
Chroma_primus@reddit
I meant russians the people are loosing in the sence that they are dying for Putins imperial abitions and getting poorer because of the econmic contractions caused by the war.
As for Putin and his lot He didn't say what winning entails so He thinks He is winning.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
What economic contractions?
This isn’t reflecting reality. It is just stating what we want to happen.
Chroma_primus@reddit
The 10% Inflation and the 21% interst rate that fail to lower said Inflation, coupled with cut from the russion goverment for social services, infrastructure goverment contractors not from the Military sector.
Redditbecamefacebook@reddit
Yup. That's why we're in this problem. Russians have been stealing their own GDP for decades so now they have to build tanks and guns if they want bread.
Lol. Maximum cope. Yeah. All NK needs is blueprints and they'll be a powerhouse.
Strikingprotocol@reddit
Oh no you seem to be falling for Russian propaganda, don't worry I'm here to save you:
-Russia in 1994 with Budapest momerandum confirmed Ukraine sovereignty of 1991 borders (including Crimea) and commited to defend Ukraine from agression within 1991 borders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum
-Russia in 2003 tried to take Tusla island despite Treaty on Friendship, cooperation and partnership between Ukraine and the Russian Federation" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Tuzla_Island_conflict
-Russia tried to manipulate 2004 elections leading to Orange revolution
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/how-ukraines-orange-revolution-shaped-twenty-first-century-geopolitics
with several districts reported voter turnout greater than 100 percent in eastern Ukraine for pro russian candidate
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/orange-revolution-ukraine-votes-for-change
-Russia that said there were no russian soldiers in Crimea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mz44_-T_PC4
-Russia claimed Ukraine bomb Donbass for no reason while shooting from residential areas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdFAwJe53os
https://youtu.be/vqvA49lWJuI?si=X7X_33lydJcj2opp
I would like if you could please point out extensive damage from 8 years of shelling:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxVIT-5CfHk
while DPR and LPR were being led by people who act like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yoOrZSHZyY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4dJ1Xu4Dhc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQmTaOxtSCM
-Russia proxy forces claimed they didn't shoot down an airliner and then took celebratory pictures at crash site
https://imgur.com/a/9YcjNAI
https://www.rand.org/pubs/commentary/2022/09/debunking-russian-lies-about-biolabs-at-upcoming-un.html
-Russia is closer to the Africa then to the west
https://imgur.com/a/d2Lzw1R
-Russia chooses propaganda based on the world region
https://imgur.com/a/v5rEJnu
-Russia claimed Eu will fall apart due to lack of natural gas
https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/zuj7lx/russian_state_broadcaster_rt_has_a_christmas/
-Russia claimed Ukraine counter offensive to Kharkiv was minimal and will be stopped easily "There is not panic. In Balakleya there were mostly mobilized."
https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3583705-how-propaganda-of-putins-regime-cracked-during-ukraine-armys-counteroffensive.html
-Russia continuously spreads fakes about Zelensky buying villas and luxury cars
https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-new-fakes-on-zelenskyys-purported-wealth/a-69552392
-Russia continues to deny massacre in Bucha and it saying that it was UAF who killed civilians for cooperating with enemies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrGZ66uKcl0
-Russia falsely claimed Ukraine hit its own civilians in Kramatorsk with a Tochka-U missile. However, media affiliated with the DPR published videos showing missile launches from separatist-controlled Shakhtarsk before the strikes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wikiKramatorsk_railway_station_attack
-Russia claims will nuke rest of the world once a week
https://imgur.com/a/Zb8A5Nk
-Russia is lying Nazis are in power in the Ukraine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzkwrOXXc5U
while being friend with Neo nazi Dmitry Utkin https://romea.cz/en/world/the-times-putin-has-sent-mercenaries-to-kyiv-led-by-an-admirer-of-the-nazis-to-murder-zelenskyy-and-the-klitschko-brothers,
military commander of the Russian state-funded Wagner Group and https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusich_Group
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abe%C3%AFbara_massacres
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%C3%AFgbado_massacre,
https://en.wikipedia.orgwikiDangu%C3%A8r%C3%A8_Wotoro_massacre,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hombori_massacre,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidal_offensive,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_2022_attacks_in_the_Central_African_Republic,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moura_massacre
-Russia employs PMC Wagner that publicly executed one of their deserters with a sledgehammer
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/sledgehammer-execution-russian-mercenary-who-defected-ukraine-shown-video-2022-11-13/ and then sent blood smeared sledgehammer to EU
https://www.occrp.org/en/news/putins-chef-sends-bloody-sledgehammer-to-eu-parliament
-Russia that claims Wagner coup was feint
-Russia launched faked 'nazi' attack on ethnic russians geolocated deep in donbass
https://imgur.com/a/nKOWoa4
-side that pushes propaganda trough Orthodox church, then lies Ukraine is suppressing religion freedom
-side that claims they offered peace deal to Ukraine, obfuscating the fact condition to ONLY START negotiation is Ukraine leaving 4 oblasts in their full and complete disarmament.
-side that lies that a Ukrainian defense missile caused the destruction of Okhmatdyt Children's Hospital on July 8, 2024.
-Bizarrely included Sims 3 among evidence of ‘staged’ plot
https://imgur.com/a/AukxGZl
-side that claims Kiev was just a feint and that they backed out because somehow NATO forced them out, that it was good will gesture and that Putin didn't ever wanted to occupy all of Ukraine.
-side that laughs at EU inflation while having comparable one with 16%+ interest rate
-side that saw USA's leaked documents about russian and ukrainian losses and then photoshopped them to look better for russia -side that says Ukrainians in occupied lands are treated fairly, when in fact they have to have russian passport or their land and houses will be taken -side that claimed after Bahkmut fails so will rest of Ukraine and calling anybody who told them that there are hills behind of Bahkmut that they have no idea what they are talking about
-Russia destabilises eu with:
immigrants:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/29/putin-russia-wagner-militia-africa-immigration-europe/
https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/07/18/russia-ukraine-war-migration-food-crisis-putin/
BLM:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_and_Black_Lives_Matter
anti-fracking groups (so they can sell more gas)
thehill.com/opinion/energy-environment/596304-investigate-russias-covert-funding-of-us-anti-fossil-fuel-groups/
https://www.newsweek.com/intelligence-putin-funding-anti-fracking-campaign-547873
https://thenewamerican.com/world-news/europe/nato-head-russia-is-funding-anti-fracking-movement/
-side that kidnaps ukrainians children which is according the UN genocide
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-children-abducted-by-russia-left-with-psychological-scars-campaigners-2024-06-15/ (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/Genocide%20Convention-FactSheet-ENG.pdf
-side that criticises the west for ecalation, even though you started this war TWICE, brough Iranian and North Korean missiles and NK's soldiers
-"Sanctions are not working, and thats why we base every "peace" negotiation on droping them."
biggesthumb@reddit
Whos saying they are running out of ammo? Its been known they switched to a wartime economy years ago
WW3_doomer@reddit
All of Russian industrial capabilities were built by Europeans using European CNC machines
VintageGriffin@reddit
Ok, and your point is?
For the longest time the entire western presence in anything low orbit and outer space has been facilitated by Russian rockets.
A lot of Europe's industrial success post WW2 was facilitated due to having access abundant and affordable Russian resources. Times change. Now Russia produces its own entirely domestic CNC machines. Is Europe producing its own resources?
Chroma_primus@reddit
Russia is about two years away from becoming and economical vassal to China because they rely entirly on them like All of the world because China Was smart and choose the path of economic development instead of russias elit that blead their cuntry dry. And yes the EU is increasing spending for Arms manufacturing. Also i would love a sourvce for the rocket technology.
VintageGriffin@reddit
Uh, Russia is 2 years away from becoming the same thing that the rest of the world already is with regards to China?
Let me tell you the things that Russia has which most of the rest of the world doesn't: abundant resources, cutting edge military technology, modern battle tested weaponry. All of these being pretty valuable commodities which can shape the nature of relationships between Russia and China. Especially in the light of USA being increasingly interested in starting a conflict with China, considering it to be its primary threat.
Chroma_primus@reddit
Why then is russia increasingly Relying on components made or exported from China. All the natural Ressources in the world can't help you if you can't process them yourself the russian economy is almost entirely based on the sale of ressources not their Transformation.
What i meant with vassal is that soon Beijing will have critical control over the ressources russia will need to build All their weapons and then the demands will Start rolling in.
VintageGriffin@reddit
Because they can no longer get them in sufficient quantities from their previous sources in the West?
And even this is mostly temporary anyway as import substitution in Russia ramps up to be able to meet their own demands. This process takes time.
My dude, Russia builds nuclear submarines, commercial and military airplanes, and sends satellites to space. All using (mostly) domestic resources and technology.
Name me a list of other countries that can do that.
You really think they don't have the know-how or the capacity to refine some rocks or dinosaur juice?
Butt then again, keep thinking that Russia are some backwards savages that inherited the gifts of some kind of long lost civilization that they are unable to replicate or even just maintain. The more Russia is underestimated the easier it is for it to do whatever that it needs to do.
Chroma_primus@reddit
Russia is also the beigesteuert country on earth it would be a national embarassment if they couldn't produce Things themselfs.
The nect thing is Russia doesn't produce computer Chips that are neccessary for exaple for drones, rockets and submarines and is ther for totaly reliant on imports from other countrys.
The russian people are not to blame for this war but Putin, the goverment and the oligarchs in their quest for paßt glorys.
VintageGriffin@reddit
United States is the fourth largest country on earth, and they don't produce pretty much anything themselves any more.
Neither does the United States or anyone in Europe.
Russia does however have (as far as I know) decent levels of manufacturing of 85nm+ chips for its domestic consumption - which are plenty suitable for industrial, civilian and military needs outside of cutting edge and high-tech fields. Not everything needs to be ran by powerfull all-purpose microcontrollers.
If you're going to make the comparisons then apply them to everyone equally.
Chroma_primus@reddit
The united states produce their own Chips sorry to burst your bubble. And no russia doesn't produce their own chips.
By the way that was one of the theoretical advantages of a globalised economy that wars become harder to persecute.
ExtremeAcceptable289@reddit
Russia is able to produce their own chips, just they are much worse than the wesrs
Chroma_primus@reddit
No they Arendt thats why sales for washing units increas over 1000% in sales to kasachstan. https://taz.de/Wie-Mikrochips-nach-Russland-gelangen/!5944602/
Hyndis@reddit
I'd wager at least 50% of the items around me right now at this very moment were made in China.
The entire world has decided to allow China to be its factory. An enormous quantity of consumer goods, everything from clothes to shoes to consumer electronics to kitchenware to soap, is all made in China.
Chroma_primus@reddit
Yes China was very smart in planing their economy in manufactoring and it's choekhold on raer earths.
Arrow156@reddit
The Chinese oligarchs are just as corrupt and enrich themselves at the cost of their countrymen too. The difference is their appetite is much greater than what they currently have, which is why they are so gung-ho on infrastructure and modernization.
Chroma_primus@reddit
Fair enough i don't know that much about China but you are probably right.
ChaosDancer@reddit
And all Europeans countries were build on the back of slaves, blood and genocide, whats your point?
Bathhouse-Barry@reddit
Russian minds incapable of ever making CNC machines. No one outside superior European/western mindset capable of making anything advanced, I forgot.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
Well, we don’t know if North Korea actually produced that artillery.
It is probable that China produced that artillery, sent it to North Korea, who then sent it to Russia.
That way China can deny giving weapons to Russia, so they escape sanctions. North Korea is just the fall guy.
theonlymexicanman@reddit
Ya and imagine if Iraq had WMDs
Crazy what panic we can cause if we make a bunch of hypotheticals into the perceived reality
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
Hoisted by their own petard.
Schrödinger’s Russia or how Russia can be weak and strong at the same time.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/10/politics/russia-artillery-shell-production-us-europe-ukraine/index.html
Actually it is probably much higher now.
To summarize for everyone, since 2022 the West has constantly depicted Russia as a paper tiger, weak, backwards, slow, inefficient, dumb, etc.
For years, the mainstream depiction was that Russia was running out of artillery, Ukraine was destroying more of it, etc.
https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-03-01/ukraine-outgunned-10-to-1-in-massive-artillery-battle-with-russia.html
However, even back in 2023 we knew that Russia had a 10 to 1 artillery advantage. They use 30,000 - 60,000 shells a day.
That is 10,000,000 to 21,000,000 shells a year.
4,000,000 shells a year allows them to fire 10,000 shells a day.
North Korea has supplied Russia 6,000,000 to 9,000,000 artillery shells. So combined Russian forces are able to fire 30,000 shells a day minimum without dipping into their reserves.
At the time, Ukraine was estimated to fire 3,000 - 5,000 shells a day.
It was shocking the way people reacted to North Korea supplying Russia with artillery. Instead of seeing this as a huge problem, something that would lead to a lot of dead Ukrainian soldiers, everyone laughed.
They treated it as vindication somehow of Russia being weak.
I still have no idea how you get that from news about Russia receiving 6 to 9 times more than the entire artillery we have given to Ukraine this entire war.
Unfortunately, this mentality is pervasive everywhere. We come into any situation with the assumption that we are the best and have already won whatever competition.
We will never be able to match Russian artillery production. China has sanctioned the West and refuses to sell the required gun cotton.
https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3253928/europe-battles-gunpowder-shortage-supply-shells-ukraines-defence-against-russia
soggybiscuit93@reddit
People at the time pointed out these exact numbers to argue that Russia's current rate of fire (at the time) was unsustainable, as they were using 3 - 6 years worth of shell production per year.
They also pointed out the impacts that this has on barrel life, as howitzer barrels have a maximum amount of shells they can fire before they need to be replaced vs Russia barrel production rates.
They also pointed out Ukraine's superior counter-battery assets.
And then came to the conclusion that Russia's artillery fires rate would decline.
And your entire argument doesn't prove or disprove the "Russia is a paper tiger" statement. If you had described the current state of the war in July 2025 to someone in March of 2022, they'd laugh at you and call you crazy for suggesting that Russia would be in their current situation.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
All of these arguments are motivated by the desire for this war to be improving for Ukraine long term.
All of them argue just that; things are slowly getting better for Ukraine.
We know the exact opposite is reality. But that brings up a whole different set of problems; like how it looks like the are a lot of people who wanted to defend Ukraine and instead made everything much worse for them.
So literally what has happened in every intervention since Korea.
That is from just these forges. Doesn’t count their existing capacity. And from the video they are clearly still in use.
In fact, the addition of North Korean shells make it look like they were continuing at that pace. But I understand that accepting this was difficult because it went against what people wanted to happen.
Ukraine on the other hand is dependent for every single bullet on foreign military aid. They are not in control of how much artillery they use.
soggybiscuit93@reddit
Who's arguments? Russia's inability to maintain volumes of fire they used earlier on in the conflict is indisputable.
What does this have to do with anything? The USSR's military industrial base was far larger than modern day Russia's. Not only did Russia "lose" much of their industrial base across international borders when the USSR broke up, it atrophied and was downsized in the 1990s. It's absolutely a well known fact that the USSR had tremendous industrial capacities 50 years ago.
What video?
The addition of North Korean shells proved their point: That the pace of Russian fires exceeded their production capacity.
By your own provided figures, North Korean military aid provided 1 additional year of fire volume at best.
And it still doesn't really address one of my points earlier: A discussion that centers entirely around artillery shell production neither proves nor disproves Russian paper tiger claims. I'd argue that the Russian militaries current position vs Ukraine + 4 months of US military spending worth of aid is proof that their military's conventional capabilities are below what many people expected.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
Okay USSR’s industrial base was far larger. And then what happened?
Unlike most Western countries, Russia did not sell off or liquid their manufacturing base.
It’s funny that you bring up this fact about Russia when Ukraine likewise inherited 1/3 of that legendary Soviet industrial base but they still ended up the poorest country in Europe.
They also inherited a massive Military Industrial Complexes. Pre-2014 they were the fourth largest weapons producer in the world.
Yet today, they have virtually no weapons production.
soggybiscuit93@reddit
Why are you asking me what happened to the USSR industrial base and then acknowledge that it was split up across different countries' borders? Russia is not the USSR.
And Russia did scrap some of their industrial base during the 90's.
I need a source on Ukraine being the 4th largest weapons producer in the world in the 2000s and early 2010s
Dpek1234@reddit
As it looks like it did
Ratio went from russian 8:1 ukrainian to 2:1 and the 2 :1 is rather old
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
Oh yeah I especially love this take.
Artillery rates are declining.
Why?
Just someone told me and I think so.
Alright.
Ukraine artillery is increasing.
How? We aren’t giving them new artillery systems. We don’t even have artillery shells to give them. We originally gave them tanks as a stop gap because no Western army has above 15,000 artillery systems.
But yeah. I’m sure the artillery ratio is decreasing just because you want it to
Dpek1234@reddit
Russia is buying north korean ammo for a reason
https://armyrecognition.com/focus-analysis-conflicts/army/conflicts-in-the-world/russia-ukraine-war-2022/exclusive-denmark-strengthens-ukraines-artillery-with-a-discreet-delivery-of-2s1-gvozdika-self-propelled-howitzers
https://www.google.com/amp/s/themunicheye.com/amp/sweden-archer-artillery-support-ukraine-13279.html
https://www.rheinmetall.com/en/media/news-watch/news/2024/12/2024-12-18-rheinmetall-supplies-artillery-propelling-charges-to-ukraine
https://tvpworld.com/85032806/uk-artillery-ammunition-deliveries-to-ukraine-reach-500000-rounds
https://united24media.com/latest-news/europes-artillery-production-skyrockets-poised-to-overtake-russia-and-rival-china-by-2026-7873
If we ignore everything delivered then they havent delivered anything
Soo you got sources or you got bullshit?
IDKK1238703@reddit
Do you know how desperate you have to be to ask NORTH FUCKING KOREA for shells? Also, if this was so terrifying, why has Russia not advanced nearly at all during the past few years of fighting? They’re compensating for being shit at actually fighting by throwing a large amount of suppressive fire down range whenever things are looking bad, and Ukraine can do very little to prevent this due to a lack of deep strike and counter battery capability.
Mind you, the US and NATO are on peacetime production while Russia is in wartime.
ShootmansNC@reddit
Russia needs a lot of shells to conduct the war, why wouldn't they buy them from another country that produces a lot of shells?
What's comical is that NK has been a more reliable partner to Russia than NATO has been to ukraine.
theBadRoboT84@reddit
And your point?
War is not suposed to be fair
IDKK1238703@reddit
Throughout the US’s wars, did you ever see them asking their allies for more bombs? No. Because the US could supply itself and not need to go to ask a starving 3rd world pariah state for more shells.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
So it really has nothing to do with the shells themselves, just that fact that they are from North Korea?
I don’t think it’s a good idea to use land gained as a victory metric in a war of attrition.
That is exactly the kind of thinking that creates frustration, pressure and then leads to things like the counteroffensive, a massive waste of manpower. Or Kursk. Or Bakhmut.
The most obvious example is to pour in much more money, resources and time into creating actual fortifications.
Ukraine has struggled throughout this war to construct effective fortifications and have instead relied heavily on masses of infantry to hold positions.
Europe and America could provide Ukraine with the money and resources to create those defensive structures. We could even build them for them (and should have) but didn’t.
Why?
Because that conflicts with our goals.
We do not necessarily care about Ukrainian manpower losses because we are not Ukraine.
But we want them (and force them) to be proactive, to go on the attack even when it’s a bad idea.
IDKK1238703@reddit
Yes. Shells from North Korea are an issue, because as we have seen, they are often poorly made, with the propellant being incorrectly fitted into the shells, and more. Also, lmao.
Ukraine can do DEFENSIVE things to weaken artillery, but that doesn’t help when they are trying to reclaim their own territory. It also doesn’t actually solve the root of the problem, enemy artillery. To truly fix it, and not become a cuck in a bunker, you need a large force of counter battery guns, deep strike aircraft or weapons, and more. Ukraine does not have enough of these.
If anything, we force them to be defensive, for example, we prohibited them from using our missiles to strike Russia.
Kursk and Bakhmut are/were great distractions, because they forced Russia to commit resources somewhere where they had very little actual impact on the actual progress of the war.
If you want attrition, then look at Russia’s strategic bomber fleet (or more accurately, what’s left of it) those are losses which CANNOT be easily replaced, as there is no new production. Or the fact that we are now seeing early t72s, t64s, t62s and even 55s. That would be like America having to send fucking m48s and early model m60s into Iraq, because they were running out of Abrams.
Also, how is Russia winning?
If their goal was to crush Ukrainian resistance to them: Ukraine hates them even more now (turns out bombing hospitals and schools doesn’t make people like you)
If their goal was to prevent NATO expansion: Sweden and Finland joined the alliance
If their goal was to take Ukraine: 20%…
If their goal was to demilitarize Ukraine: just no
If their goal was to make themselves look like clowns as they failed to defeat Ukraine in years upon years of fighting, then sure they succeeded wildly.
Dpek1234@reddit
Yep
They can clain however much they want
It doesnt line up with reality
This is year 4
steauengeglase@reddit
The only laughing I can recall was the failure rate on N. Korean shells.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
Yeah see, this is what I’m talking about. This.
“North Korea so poor and backwards, their shells don’t work”.
Without access to literally any data at all on failure rates or even differences between shells.
We don’t even know if the shells are from North Korea officially.
steauengeglase@reddit
Please don't guilt me on the N. Koreans being poor and backwards, as if I just cited a paper on scientific racism, when there are plenty of Z bloggers complaining about getting 30 year old shells, all the way into 2024.
Strikingprotocol@reddit
https://imgur.com/a/AhXw6Xo
yes because is russia is know for telling truth.
it is sad you are this knowledgeable about this war, but you don't know the basics.
Let me guess, other people are morons and you are all knowing export?
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
It doesn’t take much to be knowledgeable about this war. All you need is common sense.
The most basic common sense is that Russia also wants to win this war.
That means they aren’t just going to lay down and give up.
Dpek1234@reddit
It is year 4
Germany was able to take down france in mere months
Both gulf wars , mere weeks (excluding air bombardemnt)
By that logic if russia is indeed everything theyve been crancked up to be then why is this year 4?
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
Well I’m sure if America was running AWACS flights right off the French and German coast, they would still be around also.
frizzykid@reddit
Not surprising at all given almost the entirety of Russias production output has completely transitioned to the military over the last few years. They're also using significantly more ammo than America is right now.
Boner-Salad728@reddit
You wouldnt say so if you saw how much local made coca-cola variants we have now.
Cmon, where did you guys even get that shit? Your idiotic brands left all assets here which were gladly taken. You think ex Ikea factories were repurposed for battle stool manufacturing or what?
frizzykid@reddit
I said nearly all, and for the record you're being ignorant because shit like coke or sweets absolutely gets thrown towards the military line as well. That shit is important for morale. Fuck In American military bases across Iraq we have star bucks, McDonald's, dunkin donuts etc because they're popular and make the soldiers feel like they aren't in the middle east.
Boner-Salad728@reddit
Mate you have military grade coke overdose, calm down and breath.
You literally tell me that wild bullshit from another side of the globe and call me ignorant? I live here.
Empty-Development298@reddit
What critiques do you have of your current administration?
What are your thoughts on Roman Starovoit?
frizzykid@reddit
Actually I can and just did. You living in an an authoritarian oligarchy that controls access to information does not make you any more informed on the topic if all you choose to do is live there.
Nethlem@reddit
They live there, you don't have any connection to their place except what your constantly lying media and government is telling you about their place.
That being the same government and media that also claimed Saddam was in cahoots with Al Qaeda, and allegedly not only responsible for 9/11 but also anthrax attacks in the US.
Apparently you learned nothing from any of that, still huffing the agitprop, claiming to know it better than even the people living in the places you seem to hate so much because you are told to do so, oh the irony..
re_carn@reddit
Well, if they control all access to information, how do you know that? Oh wait
Boner-Salad728@reddit
What am I doing here and why am I reading your stuff if muh oligarchy controls muh access to information?
Really, why am I doing this, Jesus Christ…
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
They don’t use coke.
They use adderall.
Or Ritalin.
Often both.
Boner-Salad728@reddit
Or r/worldnews
Nethlem@reddit
Probably all at once, with a good dose of r/Europe thrown in for good measure
doabarrelroll69@reddit
The US Navy in WWII famously had ships solely dedicated to the production and delivery of ice cream and the Royal Navy nearly had their own, but instead of ice cream they would have carried rum.
overtoke@reddit
*the chocolate in question was intentionally bad tasting
cptspeirs@reddit
**the chocolate in question is still intentionally bad tasting
runsongas@reddit
not intentional, it was due to operational needs that it had to survive temperature extremes like the deserts of north africa and the jungles of burma without melting to sludge. this is partly why m&ms were invented so that a modified chocolate formula would not be needed for tolerating higher temperatures.
frizzykid@reddit
Tbh that's fascinating, never heard of this before but will be certain to read up on that.
doabarrelroll69@reddit
Those ships only began showing up late war after the USN had sunk most of the IJN's surface fleet, but they still played an important part as the ice cream helped sailors cool down, both figuratively and literally.
Dpek1234@reddit
Also they just couldnt actualy get a alcoholic drink due to prohibition
eggnogpoop69@reddit
That’s good for allied morale but it must also have been so crushing for German morale to hear about American ice cream ships as they were looking out over their ruined cities.
RisingDeadMan0@reddit
makes them feel at home, but middle east has all of "McDonald's, dunkin donuts" and the rest lol
zootbot@reddit
lol you clarify “nearly all” like that would be remotely true either way. You made a comment that you pulled out of your ass, why you gotta double down
frizzykid@reddit
I didn't clarify anything. My original comment says "Almost all"
Nethlem@reddit
Did you even for a second consider the possibility that not all factual reporting is only done in the English language?
frizzykid@reddit
It's interesting you think that you think "English reporting" can't be factual or honest.
Nethlem@reddit
That's not what I wrote or even implied
I'm merely pointing out that not everything gets reported in English, not even everything of "note", and particularly not any "good news" out of the declared "bad parts" of the world.
Btw: That "factual English" reporting got us hits like Iraqi WMD allegedly being a threat to NATO in Europe, to justify occupying Iraq to this day, and it hasn't stopped reframing pretty much every conflict since then, including the one currently going on in Ukraine.
frizzykid@reddit
It sounds like you don't know a thing about media literacy if youre making this about "english speaking" and "non english speaking" journalism.
zootbot@reddit
You have no sources. Your source is your ass
frizzykid@reddit
I don't give sources to people who strawman me from the getgo. It's all available information. I don't need to waste time refuting bullshit.
zootbot@reddit
Thanks for confirming the obvious, you made it up
Boner-Salad728@reddit
Link your sources ;3
zootbot@reddit
Link your sources
overtoke@reddit
they stopped making kisses (due to aluminum rationing) Hershey retooled to produce the D-ration bar.
The D-ration bar was designed as an emergency ration, to provide a high-energy source that was heat-resistant and difficult to consume quickly. The D-ration bar was intentionally designed to have a less-than-desirable taste to prevent soldiers from eating it as a regular treat.
Hershey also produced the Tropical Chocolate Bar, which was designed for the Pacific theater, with an even less palatable taste due to its heat-resistant properties.
Hershey produced over 3 billion during the war
LSF604@reddit
ok, so there is coca cola. Russia is still running on a wartime economy. And without the war its economy will have some huge issues.
ultimate_placeholder@reddit
The labor that goes into stools gets moved over to weapon, the tooling that go into building stool building machines gets moved over to making those that produce ammunition, the wood goes from stools to nanocellulose for the stealth coating on modern fighters, the building gets repurposed to manufacture tank treads.
Boner-Salad728@reddit
The bone goes to spears, skin to armours, teeth - to battle amulets.
What do you mean by “labor gets moved” btw? How do you imagine it in your head?
Strikingprotocol@reddit
You seem to be quite knowledgeable about everything. Consider the following:
-Russia in 1994 with Budapest momerandum confirmed Ukraine sovereignty of 1991 borders (including Crimea) and commited to defend Ukraine from agression within 1991 borders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum
-Russia in 2003 tried to take Tusla island despite Treaty on Friendship, cooperation and partnership between Ukraine and the Russian Federation" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Tuzla_Island_conflict
-Russia tried to manipulate 2004 elections leading to Orange revolution
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/how-ukraines-orange-revolution-shaped-twenty-first-century-geopolitics
with several districts reported voter turnout greater than 100 percent in eastern Ukraine for pro russian candidate
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/orange-revolution-ukraine-votes-for-change
-Russia that said there were no russian soldiers in Crimea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mz44_-T_PC4
-Russia claimed Ukraine bomb Donbass for no reason while shooting from residential areas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdFAwJe53os https://youtu.be/vqvA49lWJuI?si=X7X_33lydJcj2opp I would like if you could please point out extensive damage from 8 years of shelling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxVIT-5CfHk while DPR and LPR were being led by people who act like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yoOrZSHZyY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4dJ1Xu4Dhc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQmTaOxtSCM
-Russia proxy forces claimed they didn't shoot down an airliner and then took celebratory pictures at crash site
https://imgur.com/a/9YcjNAI
https://www.rand.org/pubs/commentary/2022/09/debunking-russian-lies-about-biolabs-at-upcoming-un.html
With one of the ships being ss-750, ships that has deepwater crane and submarine?
https://greydynamics.com/russias-ss-750-ship-covert-action-tool/Same one on which "act of God" happened saving Russia few million euros per day for penalties for not delivering gas?Oh and it was blown up, except one pipeline, which the saboteurs conveniently forgot. The fourth pipe not only survived the attack, no explosive was found. Just in case German decided they wanted to restart deliveries. How nice of the saboteurs.https://imgur.com/a/kTnu1HRWith one country involved well versed in asymmetrical war and propaganda to the point it is probably first time you heard this?That one? Yeah I don't know why Russians blew it up themselves. Must be those pesky Ukrainians using limited resources to piss off Germany for no reason whatsoever, after Germany provided millions is aid. Yeah makes perfect sense.
-Russia is closer to the Africa then to the west
https://imgur.com/a/d2Lzw1R
-Russia chooses propaganda based on the world region
https://imgur.com/a/v5rEJnu
-Russia claimed Eu will fall apart due to lack of natural gas
https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/zuj7lx/russian_state_broadcaster_rt_has_a_christmas/
-Russia claimed Ukraine counter offensive to Kharkiv was minimal and will be stopped easily "There is not panic. In Balakleya there were mostly mobilized."
https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3583705-how-propaganda-of-putins-regime-cracked-during-ukraine-armys-counteroffensive.html
-Russia continuously spreads fakes about Zelensky buying villas and luxury cars
https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-new-fakes-on-zelenskyys-purported-wealth/a-69552392
-Russia continues to deny massacre in Bucha and it saying that it was UAF who killed civilians for cooperating with enemies https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrGZ66uKcl0
-Russia falsely claimed Ukraine hit its own civilians in Kramatorsk with a Tochka-U missile. However, media affiliated with the DPR published videos showing missile launches from separatist-controlled Shakhtarsk before the strikes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wikiKramatorsk_railway_station_attack
-Russia claims will nuke rest of the world once a week
https://imgur.com/a/Zb8A5Nk
-Russia is lying Nazis are in power in the Ukraine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzkwrOXXc5U while being friend with Neo nazi Dmitry Utkin https://romea.cz/en/world/the-times-putin-has-sent-mercenaries-to-kyiv-led-by-an-admirer-of-the-nazis-to-murder-zelenskyy-and-the-klitschko-brothers, military commander of the Russian state-funded Wagner Group
and https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusich_Group
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%C3%AFgbado_massacre,https://en.wikipedia.orgwikiDangu%C3%A8r%C3%A8_Wotoro_massacre,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hombori_massacre,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidal_offensive,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_2022_attacks_in_the_Central_African_Republic,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moura_massacre
-Russia employs PMC Wagner that publicly executed one of their deserters with a sledgehammer
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/sledgehammer-execution-russian-mercenary-who-defected-ukraine-shown-video-2022-11-13/ and then sent blood smeared sledgehammer to EU
https://www.occrp.org/en/news/putins-chef-sends-bloody-sledgehammer-to-eu-parliament
https://imgur.com/a/nKOWoa4
-side that pushes propaganda trough Orthodox church, then lies Ukraine is suppressing religion freedom
-side that claims they offered peace deal to Ukraine, obfuscating the fact condition to ONLY START negotiation is Ukraine leaving 4 oblasts in their full and complete disarmament.
-side that lies that a Ukrainian defense missile caused the destruction of Okhmatdyt Children's Hospital on July 8, 2024.
-Bizarrely included Sims 3 among evidence of ‘staged’ plot
https://imgur.com/a/AukxGZl
-side that claims Kiev was just a feint and that they backed out because somehow NATO forced them out, that it was good will gesture and that Putin didn't ever wanted to occupy all of Ukraine.
-side that laughs at EU inflation while having comparable one with 16%+ interest rate
-side that saw USA's leaked documents about russian and ukrainian losses and then photoshopped them to look better for russia -side that says Ukrainians in occupied lands are treated fairly, when in fact they have to have russian passport or their land and houses will be taken -side that claimed after Bahkmut fails so will rest of Ukraine and calling anybody who told them that there are hills behind of Bahkmut that they have no idea what they are talking about
-Russia destabilises eu with:
immigrants: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/29/putin-russia-wagner-militia-africa-immigration-europe/
https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/07/18/russia-ukraine-war-migration-food-crisis-putin/
BLM: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_and_Black_Lives_Matter
anti-fracking groups (so they can sell more gas)
thehill.com/opinion/energy-environment/596304-investigate-russias-covert-funding-of-us-anti-fossil-fuel-groups/
https://www.newsweek.com/intelligence-putin-funding-anti-fracking-campaign-547873
https://thenewamerican.com/world-news/europe/nato-head-russia-is-funding-anti-fracking-movement/
-side that kidnaps ukrainians children which is according the UN genocide
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-children-abducted-by-russia-left-with-psychological-scars-campaigners-2024-06-15/ (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/Genocide%20Convention-FactSheet-ENG.pdf -side that criticises the west for ecalation, even though you started this war TWICE, brough Iranian and North Korean missiles and NK's soldiers
-Sanctions are not working, and thats why we base every "peace" negotiation on droping them.
ultimate_placeholder@reddit
Well paying jobs are created for defense industry, people follow the money. Simple as.
Boner-Salad728@reddit
Wow not bad actually, I thought you will say they are whipped and gulaged to go there.
Where do these money appear from?
And for what these money are used if we have nothing to buy with it bar stealth coating made of stools?
ultimate_placeholder@reddit
Basically every European NATO ally signed onto the 5% defense spending target (which I think is a ridiculous figure, it will inevitably come at the expense of spending on the safety net and most already failed to meet 2% before the full scale invasion began).
Wood pulp is used is used in the production of nanocellulose, which is used in some stealth coatings to trap and dissipate radio waves used for RADAR (especially the short band RADAR used for targeting), though exact composition is obviously not widely advertised. I used it simply as an example of how every raw material is inherently dual purpose.
SpeakerEnder1@reddit
The 5% is never going to happen. The European NATO allies are trying to appease Trump to keep him involved and to keep him from destroying NATO altogether in hopes that they can get someone more friendly once he leaves office. The EU economies are decimated and they are trying to implement austerity measures in many of them already there is no way they can afford to spend that money on defense. The EU can't get meet increased artillery shell promises they made and they want people to believe they are raising defense spending to 5%.
Nethlem@reddit
In Germany it's pretty much already a decided deal we gonna spend xxx billion on useless tanks, and to pay for it we gonna cut education and social spending even further, just like we've been doing for the last ~30 years.
I.E. the big "Infrastructure investment fund" was a militarization fund in disguise, lots of that is just going into infrastructure responsible for military assets of the Bundeswehr, and the plentiful NATO allies still stationed in Germany to this day.
What's happening right now is a very Schwarze Reichswehr style silent militarization, one in violation of certain treaties.
Like opening up a new NATO base in Rostock, which should be off-limits to NATO troops and installations according to the 2+4 treaty due to being in former GDR territories, yet somehow ain't.
Nethlem@reddit
That's wrong, the 5% spending wasn't something "signed on", it's just a general spending recommendation coming out of some comitte.
There is nothing in the Washington Treaty that forces anybody to spend even 1% on their military.
Similarly, collective defense participation can't be enforced, even if article 5 was activated by the Atlantic Council, each NATO member still retains full sovereignity over their participation, and scale of participation.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
Wait, stealth planes are made out of wood? Seriously??
ultimate_placeholder@reddit
The thin coating over the paint is, the airframe itself is not
Boner-Salad728@reddit
Have you read my question?
Where do we get our basic usual Ivan amenities to buy with petro dollars?
frizzykid@reddit
Russia has a petrol dollar, they aren't broke they are just entrenched in warfare. They print more they dig more oil. America does the same thing.
Boner-Salad728@reddit
Cool, but you missed second question - what we buy with it if we have no shit to buy and everything is repurposed to military usage?
frizzykid@reddit
No one is saying everything is repurposed though. A majority of your factories in Russia have a militaristic purpose to them now that would be difficult to just turn away from, the military part creates jobs and money for the company and workers too. But that becomes a problem when the military scales down and all these people lose jobs. Companies also lose out on the money they got from the govt which causes them to have to rethink their budgets.
You're Russian you know what people go out and spend their money on. Russian coke or whatever.
Boner-Salad728@reddit
Where do we get food (are meat plants making war meat now btw?), clothes (okay, from China as everyone if its not expensive brands), stools and other basic amenities if majority of our factories being repurposed? Thats what I asking.
Born-Procedure-5908@reddit
Are you purposefully being obtuse? You’re clearly lost if you can’t tell that Russia’s war production is clearly taking up a larger amount of its manufacturing industry compared to pre-war, it’s a non-controversial reality and absolute necessity during war time.
If the U.S or any other country invests 7-8% of its GDP into the military, well obviously see more manpower, resources, and industry pivot into the military? That’s the point of allocated military spending?
zootbot@reddit
Are you purposely being obtuse??
He didn’t say it’s taking up a larger amount of manufacturing compared to prewar.
“…almost the entirety of Russias production output has completely transitioned to the military over the last few years. “
Boner-Salad728@reddit
Sorry, Im confused on you guys, I think its 3 already talking about same thing.
Once again, how we went from “all russian food factories repurposed for battle meat, ikea ones for battle stools, russians have no amenities” to your wise “if you want more military production it needs resources”?
Nice one btw, yes its basics, but you are an american after all. Really, not bad.
frizzykid@reddit
I genuinely can't tell if you're intentionally misunderstanding what I'm saying or if there is some sort of language barrier preventing you from reading my comments.
There always have been. Do you know what soldiers eat at war? Do you think your soldiers are foraging berries on the frontlines of Donetsk and Luhansk?
Boner-Salad728@reddit
“Not surprising at all given almost the entirety of Russias production output has completely transitioned to the military over the last few years.”
Who said that?
Still no sources bar your vibes, btw.
Ah and you spin it like “food goes to soldiers so food industry is 100% reverted to military” so our whole industry is indeed switched to military. The moment we got first stickmaker 50000 years ago.
frizzykid@reddit
Yeah you're just being obtuse. Have a good day.
Boner-Salad728@reddit
“Almost the entirety”
“Completely transitioned”
“Random idiots who cant honestly reading”
A quotes from North America’s finest. I am not surprised you ended up with insults. Have a prize for that!
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
Not exactly. Russia has a very large organic manufacturing sector (surprisingly).
The Russian economy is not just military production. They now have to replace the goods they once imported from Europe.
cassowaryy@reddit
Dude Putin literally just said he’s gonna import a million Indians because of labor shortages in your country. And you think there’s zero connection to the “special military operation?” Lmao. Y’all really are suffering from a brain drain. Good luck with all that
Boner-Salad728@reddit
Brain drain to where? You geniuses make russian emigration process to western country as complex as possible.
Yeah, we need those indians to work on new opened factories cause we enlarge our industries to cover markets your companies left. To make them sweet money.
Btw, do you believe what putin says? I thought its big no-no in your tribe.
Also, do you have something against indians?
Nethlem@reddit
Well, the political comissars round up all the poor uneducated workers with violence, horde them into trains, and drive them to another factory.
I mean, have you never seen Enemy at the Gates? That's basically how Russia operates to this day /s
Born-Procedure-5908@reddit
Essential resources industries for war production such as rare earth, fuel, food, automobiles, amongst many others are pivoted into military production, which I hope you’re not going to disagree with if you’re actually arguing in good faith.
Russia’s war production in the last year clearly eclipsed that of its pre-war and early war production, with a clear increase in military spending to boot. It’s obvious that they are investing much more effort into their boosting their military capabilities and to act like they’re not doing that is asinine.
Boner-Salad728@reddit
Ah, you are another guy, okay.
Pivoted of course. Yeah, military production increased (strange, I thought it was last rusty shovels yesterday btw).
What it have to do with civilian production we talk about? All wood goes to stealth coating?
Strikingprotocol@reddit
Yeah good job on taking factories churning low quality trash.
It only costed you losing $300B in assets being frozen.
Another Putin's master plan!
TrizzyG@reddit
Most assets were sold off but otherwise, yes, your McDonalds is not producing drones behind the counters.
Boner-Salad728@reddit
Thank you, a beam of reason in the darkness of western media!
Weegee_Carbonara@reddit
Dark western media, compared to the light of unbiased, Russian state media. Amiright?
Floatzel404@reddit
You don't get it bro. Everything is clearly fine. They have carbonated beverages.
Weegee_Carbonara@reddit
I know Russians never knew a different life, but it is still insane to me how inane, meaningless crap like this is proof of things being "good" for them.
Really shows how luch Russian (and Soviet) Propaganda has domesticated the Russian population.
Like good little proles.
b0_ogie@reddit
It's just that people from Russia go to worldnews or europe subs, see the madhouse that's going on there and think that all people in the West are like that.
Nethlem@reddit
The Violence of US Information Operations:
And this stuff works, just ask most Americans about the Iraq war, and what their schools, movies and video games have told them about it.
It even extends into completely different language spheres: Ask most Germans about the German government participating in invading Iraq in 2003, most Germans are gleefully unaware, reguriating a by now decades old lie of "German opposition to the invasion".
The thing is called post-truth politics, and it became normalized when the US government, and president, told blatant lies to justify "crusading" half the Middle East while sparing the most likely Saudi Arabian culprits for 9/11.
Weegee_Carbonara@reddit
🙄
Western Media is still infinitely more free and independent, compared to Russian media.
BallisticFiber@reddit
You never know
justabill71@reddit
Mcdonald's has the Big Mac, we have the Big mAK.
Winjin@reddit
Hahaha fabled MORDÄR battle chairs
Bitter-Good-2540@reddit
SITÄGHT tank chair lol
justabill71@reddit
Fortunately, no one can put them together.
Winjin@reddit
I'm imagining this "Ikea chair put on backwards" meme, but with sister redrawn as a soldier in full uniform and everything https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/otxdw/my_cousin_ashamed_after_building_a_chair_from_ikea/
Boner-Salad728@reddit
ÖRKNUNG
Nethlem@reddit
Considering what Russian reservists have allegedly been doing with mere shovels for these past years, then an upgrade to "battle stools" could indeed be very scary.
I guess once they are delivered, at scale, the often warned about Russian push all the way to Berlin and Paris will happen?
Floatzel404@reddit
Breaking News: The Russian economic factor for "everything is fine" is if they have carbonated beverages available for purchase.
Man the bar is low
LovesFrenchLove_More@reddit
DIY Mig 29 - some assembly required.
Boner-Salad728@reddit
We believe it should fly - so it flies. Painted in red
LovesFrenchLove_More@reddit
And some of the coca-cola is actually kerosine in disguise so nobody can sabotage it. 🙃
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
Yeah, did not think that one through unfortunately.
I honestly think that many Westerners believe that if we leave a country, they cannot replace anything.
Boner-Salad728@reddit
Happens when decision makers start to believe their own propaganda.
If west did exactly opposed of what it did in 2022 - no sanctions for basic russians, refugee visas, kissing to the asses and holding a bit with screeching about “kill all orc subhumans” - we wouldve lost in 2022.
ArmadilloReasonable9@reddit
Have most abandoned assets been taken over? Are there many areas where the oligarchy didn’t take over from lack of profit/local expertise?
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
All abandoned assets got taken over.
Russia usually nationalized the assets. In one case they took over the largest VW factory in all of Europe for 1 ruble.
Then the government has either maintained state control of the assets or they have given them to domestic companies for virtually free.
A large chunk of Russia’s GDP now comes from import substitution production.
22stanmanplanjam11@reddit
Wow you guys finally figured out how to carbonate beverages? Shit before you know it you guys might have a navy.
bhmnscmm@reddit
A country at war produces more ammunition than countries not at war. Who would have thought.
Hyndis@reddit
Yes, which is why it makes European countries so hypocritical. They talk about supporting Ukraine forever, doing everything possible to defend Ukraine, and they won't make ammunition.
Its a lot of big bold words and press conferences, but you don't win wars with PR. You win wars with bullets, shells, and missiles.
Nethlem@reddit
The US also "won't make ammunition", because there is a global blackpowder shortage, with once again China having a semi monopoly on many of the base resources required to make shells.
Which is kind of funny considering how some people here insist there is no civilization outside the West, yet somehow the West can't get around its massive reliance on China for resources for their weapons and their electronics (rare earths).
ShootmansNC@reddit
TNT, not blackpowder. But yeah, the west is wholy dependent on China and the rest of the BRICS to manufacture all their supposedly advanced tech.
From strategic resources to chips and adanced electronic components on their cutting edge military hardware.
VintageGriffin@reddit
See, the thing is that a lot of the people in the west actually believe their own self-sourced numbers about how Russia redirected its entire manufacturing into military production and spends 40%+ of their GDP on it. And because they are operating with garbage input, they're making garbage conclusions off of it. If all of the industry output was all militaristic, then Russia should have been experiencing severe shortages in basic consumer goods, and that is obviously not the case.
The actual numbers is that Russia spends around 6-8% of their GDP on the conflict, and the rest remains being business as usual. Existing factories and manufacturing weren't converted for military purposes, not en-masse at least - entirely new factories have been built for this instead: missile artillery and drone production. This is how the intensity of the conflict keeps ramping up, and Ukraine having to experience an increasing amount of bombardment day after day.
Europe could have done the same, but haven't bothered to lift a finger up until now and even then they still remain undecided and bickering amongst themselves who gets all those lucrative military contracts.
And the reason for Russia's success and resilience in the manufacturing sector is rather simple: it's all entirely a self-inflicted problem by the west. By sanctioning Russia and freezing their foreign assets they forced all the Russian oligarchs to turn their massive wealths inwards, and start investing in the development of Russia itself; freeing up a lot of state resources for other, militaristic purposes without sacrifices having to be made for it. Western brands leaving the Russian market created necessity and opportunities for all that oligarch wealth to fill in the demand.
vlntly_peaceful@reddit
The last part is so important and not the first time this happened, see Iran. All these sanctions and they still enrich uranium and have one of the biggest missile arsenals.
haplo34@reddit
You and the person you're replying to completely fail to understand the purpose of economic sanctions. I don't blame you though, because it is very rarely explained in the medias.
At the scale of a country of dozen of millions of people, making shells, drones, or even doing uranium enrichment are considered basic tech. You won't prevent them doing that.
What sanction do very well is cripple their ability to run very expensive development programs for their military. Iran and Russia are basically using stone age technology in combat compared to NATO. How many programs did Russia had to cancel since the sanctions started? too many to count. They struggle to keep the pace in at most one area, and are completely outdated everywhere else. Russia's navy and airforce are not even a threat to Ukraine.
Whether Russia is or not in war time economy is just semantic. Just take a look at their annual budget. Also Putin is nationalizing the wealth of Oligarchs because the coffers are empty and the only reason Russians go fight in Ukraine is because of the large salary that is offered. This situation is not sustainable is what do you think will happen once soldiers start not getting paid?
You people think that because Russia hasn't crumbled yet it is doing fine. It is not doing fine. Will it completely collapse? probably not. But saying Russia is doing fine is fucking stupid.
VintageGriffin@reddit
My dude.
Russia has the most advanced air defence systems in the world, capable of shooting down even satellites. The best thing ever since sliced bread Patriot is at least 25y+ old at this point.
In the last couple of years alone Russia unveiled hypersonic missiles, a new nuclear powered intercontinental ballistic missile, and Oreshnik. They also produced several combat ships and nuclear submarines in that time as well.
The arms race between Russia and Ukraine both introduced and keep pushing the boundaries of drone warfare hardware and doctrines that the west doesn't even have a clue about.
Lancets and Gerans went from being loud flying cardboard lawn mowers to networked, fully autonomous AI powered ordinance.
Obsolete dumb gravity bombs have been turned into glide vehicles capable of reaching 40km+ deep into enemy territory.
Russia keeps launching drones and missiles from the safety of their own territory, afforded by the extended range that no western equivalents can match. You don't need stealth planes and bombers if you can just launch medium range missiles from thousands and AA interceptors from hundreds of kilometers away.
What stone age technology? Jesus Christ.
sblahful@reddit
I've genuinely lost count of how many S400s have been taken out by drones at this point.
https://kyivindependent.com/ukrainian-drones-strike-russian-s-400-air-defense-system-in-occupied-crimea-hur-says/
Because they suck at SEAD/DEAD and lack stealth aircraft.
B2s just flew from USA to Iran and back in a single sortie. What is this superior range that Russia have?
VintageGriffin@reddit
S400 does not offer protection against drones. Russia has other AA systems for that, such as Buk-M1, that fire something cheaper than several million dollar interceptors that would otherwise be wasted on a $1500 drone.
Y'all seem to think that an AA system is supposed to be universal and protect you from everything at the same time, regardless weather it makes any financial or logistical sense (in terms of interceptor versus target cost).
You can always find blind spots in any complex system deployment. Especially when you have USA force feeding you data that they collect through their satellite constellation and AWACS planes constantly patrolling the border. Without this constant, exorbitant ISR support Ukraine would have been blind and unable to do anything beyond 20-30km from the front line.
Haters will see you literally walk on water and say it's because you can swim.
This range for Kindzhal
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FLCCL5fXoAUjMgb?format=jpg&name=medium
Or this one for Oreshnik
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSPxkTWm-uSjCSmCZLdIsf8qKWJV3zPBEn1bCRGkam8QxXfinSJ
Satan-2 can do literal laps around the globe afforded by its nuclear-powered rocket engine.
Born-Procedure-5908@reddit
Look, before 2022, we’ve seen many people on the internet claiming Russia’s navy or airforce is somehow even close if not superior to the U.S, and let’s face it, they’re not even remotely close with airframe performances from U.S made fifth gen’s compared to Russian air performance we’ve seen in Ukraine or Syria. Not to mention their inability to sustain their influence in neighboring countries/allies.
Additionally, the quality of their air defense is undoubtable but is there real proof that it can compete against the most modern American jets? We’ve seen the advantages of vast arrays of ballistic missiles and long range munitions but there is still a undeniable, and personally, unbeatable advantage to be able to maintain and operate a large fleet of modernized aircraft as opposed to having a large missile program to make up for it.
As is seen with the wide disparity in military losses we’ve seen with Isreal as a prolific example, and let’s not downplay Iran or Hezbollah here because I’ve seen the over optimistic claims about their missile and drone capabilities before 10/7.
VintageGriffin@reddit
According to what data, trials, or combat experience / events?
Ah, so now you want to see some proof to back up the claims.
One example proof would be the fact that Ukraine sends 300-400 strong waves of drones and UAVs to attack Russia at least once a week, but you don't see weekly reports of any of their successes.
Nethlem@reddit
The "medias" have explained the purpose of those sanctions plenty of times back in 2022: To make the Russian economy implode, to make the average Russian suffer so much that they just "regime change from within", just like with most Western sanctions.
Which was supposed to happen already in 2022, and since then has become about as real as Tesla's going FSD; Will happen next year, for sure, very high certainity, jada jada!
Meanwhile, the biggest Western European economy, Germany, has been in a recession for about just as long, one that barely anybody wants to even mention but by now even has it's very own Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_economic_crisis_(2022%E2%80%93present)
While the rest of Western Europe also ain't doing exactly great economically, barely dodging yet another year of recession for the Eurozone.
Yes, yes, fighting with shovels, looting old washing machines/drythumblers, and Saddam Hussein had to invade Kuwait to make WMD in those baby incubators.
No offense meant, even tho it sounds offensive, but what you are is called a "useful idiot", look it up.
Aenjeprekemaluci@reddit
Irans problem is they have no airpower. If they had that they would be in good position but now they arent. Albeit China is helping them there now. Iran otherwise an industrial powerhouse in the Middle East. Which Turkey comparable. The rest has no large own capabilities. But lack of airpower now is making it too difficult for Iran.
Nethlem@reddit
Compared to the US, with its fleet of super-carriers acting as global airfields, pretty much nobody has any airpower worth talking about.
It's also said fleet of super-carriers making sure nobody can get close to challenging that existing American air superiority.
re_carn@reddit
Lol, you can see from the latest news how exactly “oligarchs' money is flowing back to Russia”.
VintageGriffin@reddit
You can only see what you are being shown.
Venture beyond your comfort zone and you might find things to be somewhat different from the narrative you've gotten used to.
re_carn@reddit
Hmm... can you tell me exactly what you mean by “the narrative I'm used to”?
I believe your statement is misguided. Google News about Konstantin Strukov, who suddenly became unfavored by Putin.
knakworst36@reddit
A 15% inflation rate with 20% interest does not imply there is a surplus of goods and services. Putin admitted this week Russia is facing a potato shortage, the most important staple in Russia.
Boner-Salad728@reddit
Last paragraph - totally this.
I havent seen so much infrastructure being built since 2014 when it was 2022 situation lite.
reigorius@reddit
How did the US do it after World War 2?
frizzykid@reddit
The US didn't really get touched during WW2 compared to all of Europe. We were extraordinarily lucky in that way and were able to essentially slowly transition our wartime economy out to repair a lot of Western Europe and Japan. No other country after WW2 was really untouched in the way the US was.
BendicantMias@reddit
Bruh, the article itself says it's just 6% of their gdp. Ukraine is over 36% and even Israel is at around 10%.
imunfair@reddit
Citation needed. I think you underestimate just how large Russia is, they're churning out 500 Geran drones a day from a single factory afaik, and that's just a blip on Russia's manufacturing capacity.
knakworst36@reddit
Russia spends 40% of its federal budget on defense, that’s pretty insane. But nowhere near completely transitioning.
imunfair@reddit
Even if that were true, the federal budget and the manufacturing base are two entirely different things. The claim that nearly all of Russian manufacturing has switched to support the war is false.
knakworst36@reddit
We are agreeing here.
Eziekel13@reddit
How much of that is exported to military allies?
Over the past 25-30 years, they seem to have made numerous bilateral military agreements, that include supplying military equipment….24 in North & East Africa alone…it’s seems to follow chinas belt and road with security for minerals…
frizzykid@reddit
These days almost none. When we talk about their input on the Middle east, their pullout of military aid in countries like Syria led to pretty massive regime change lately.
One key thing to note about their African colonies, which do exist, is that their influence is mostly done through private companies and mercenaries, which by all means are still apart of Russia, and historically would be armed by Russian, but ever since Wagner and Prigozhin things are changing. Before Prigozhin and Putin had their falling out, they were close buds though, that is probably very similar to the financiers of these private companies in Africa, but I don't think Russia is giving them the aid they once did.
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overtoke@reddit
how much of russia's "ammo" is actually being used vs being destroyed
ShamScience@reddit
Headline: War guy wants more war.
If you look in old European news articles from the 1900s and early 1910s, a lot of it was crap like this. Luckily, all that escalation and jingoism lead to the 1914 First World Peace, so we have nothing to worry about today either. /s
Tricky_Weight5865@reddit
Yes, how dare we defend ourselves!
Thank you for your take literally from the other side of the planet. I am sure you know more about European security than Europeans do. Lmao, get out of here with that shit.
ShamScience@reddit
I understand that you're afraid. But military escalation never makes anyone safer.
Typical_Response6444@reddit
war guy?
ShamScience@reddit
War guy. What do you think his job is? What you think HE thinks his job is?
Typical_Response6444@reddit
his job isn't managing war. That's a generals job. he is just an administrative spokesperson for an alliance.
Czart@reddit
West bad never ceases to amaze with their braindead takes.
ShamScience@reddit
Not West. Rutte. Most people don't want war, whereas he professionally needs it. He has no purpose otherwise.
WW3_doomer@reddit
ShamScience@reddit
Not Europe. Rutte. He definitely, definitely wants to shoot people, otherwise his job and his organisation is pointless. That is not the sort of person whose opinions on foreign policy should be trusted. That is the lesson from history.
ShootmansNC@reddit
Europe has been in a state of constant warfare for centuries but somehow that's all russia's fault in some people's mind.
WW3_doomer@reddit
No European country tried to expand its territory since 1945 except Russia.
ShamScience@reddit
That's just because the Second World War marks the main period of collapse of 19th century colonial empires. Europeans were too busy getting booted out nearly everywhere to keep adding significantly to their empires.
When an arsonist gets arrested, they're not building new homes. They're just being prevented from doing any more damage. They don't get a cookie for that. Similarly, Europe isn't owed any kudos for the collapse of their empires or inability to retake them.
All war is bad. All invasions are bad. It is naive to pretend otherwise.
zeigdeinepapiere@reddit
Which neighbors did Russia invade?
merc08@reddit
Ukraine for starters
zeigdeinepapiere@reddit
Go on
biggesthumb@reddit
I mean.... russia invading neighbors isnt new. A quick search can get you this information you so clearly lack
zeigdeinepapiere@reddit
If it's as quick as you say, maybe you could help me out here? Some other commenters seem to be listing a war that Russia didn't start and a domestic USSR conflict. Is that it?
biggesthumb@reddit
The ussr dissolved dec 26, 1991. You are decades too late on thay comment lol
zeigdeinepapiere@reddit
It did indeed, which is why attempting to substantiate OP's statement that "Russia constantly invades its neighbors" by bringing up internal USSR conflicts is a little weird
biggesthumb@reddit
How is russia currently invading a neighbor an old ussr conflict?
zeigdeinepapiere@reddit
I'm not referring to Ukraine. OP's statement was "Russia constantly invades its neighbors". I merely questioned that, and some other commenters tried to substantiate that statement by bringing up a war that Russia didn't start (Georgia in 2008), and a domestic USSR conflict (Moldova-Transnistria in the 90s)
biggesthumb@reddit
Russia did invade georgia, and ukraine. You can tey to spin thay any way you want, but that happened.
zeigdeinepapiere@reddit
As I have already pointed out to other users propagating the same misinformation, the 2008 Georgian war was started by Georgia
biggesthumb@reddit
As im sure ithers pointed out, georgia didn't invade russia. Russia invaded georgia. At least you can admit russia invaded ukraine. That seems to be another matter of contention with russia simps.
zeigdeinepapiere@reddit
True. It started massively and indiscriminately shelling the capital of South Ossetia on the night of August 7, 2008, followed by a ground invasion, thus starting the war.
Ossetians do not want to be part of Georgia. Their right to self determination should be respected.
biggesthumb@reddit
At least you can admit russia invaded ukraine and now you admitted russia also invaded georgia. I think we're done here!
zeigdeinepapiere@reddit
You are entitled to your prerogative of course, as disconnected from reality as it is
biggesthumb@reddit
Maybe someday russians will learn to read maps and stay within their boundaries, lol
merc08@reddit
Georgia, 2008
Ukraine, 2014
Ukraine again, 2022
Moldova, 1990s
Basically the entire Russian history is littered with invading their neighbors.
sblahful@reddit
We can go back further to include Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Finland, and Poland in the 1930s too.
zeigdeinepapiere@reddit
Your top example is a war that Russia didn't start
Your bottom example is an internal USSR conflict
I was hoping for more substance given the audacity of that statement
merc08@reddit
No, they definitely started the war in Ukraine.
If you meant Georgia, then "Russia didn't start it" isn't really valid because the long standing ceasefire was broken by Russian-backed South Ossetian forces and actual Russian troops were illegally in the country too.
The Russian involvement starting in 1992 is an example of USSR conflict despite the USSR falling in 1991?
zeigdeinepapiere@reddit
Not really, the war started as a result of the massive indiscriminate shelling of the city of Tskhinvali by Georgian forces.
South Ossetians don't want to be part of Georgia. Georgia should respect their right to self determination.
Yes, the hot short war that ensued was the result of a domestic USSR conflict which Moldova fueled by acting hostile to the Russian-speaking people of Transnistria. The Russian army in Transnistria that aided the separatists was stationed there since the 1950s.
Transnistria declared its independence from Moldova before the USSR fell apart. To this day, Transnistrians prefer independence over reunification with Moldova.
merc08@reddit
So you're just ignoring the shellings and attacks that occurred days prior by the separatists.
And Ukrainians don't want to be part of Russia. Russia should respect their borders.
Like you said, the Russian army. Which means Russia gets credit and blame for the actions.
zeigdeinepapiere@reddit
From your article:
...
Coulloudon said "They were in Tskhinvali. Three OSCE staff members were in the basement of the Tskhinvali office, and they did witness the shelling of Tskhinvali. However, the OSCE is not in a capacity to say who started the war and what happened before the night of [August] 7-8."
The EU-backed report, which is regarded as the most comprehensive and authorative investigation into the Georgian war, concluded that the war started as a result of the large scale indiscriminate shelling of Tskhinvali by Georgian forces, and could not be justified even if it was done in response to prior provocations. It was the action that crossed the threshold turning small scale, limited tit-for-tat exchanges into a large-scale military operation.
The people of Donbass did not recognize the new central government after the democratically elected president a majority of them had voted for was overthrown illegally. Ukraine should have provided autonomy to the region.
The 14th Guards Army was stationed in Moldova and then Transnistria legally as per USSR law, since the 1950s. Transnistria declared its independence in 1990, before the USSR dissolved. The people of Transnistria do not want unification with Moldova, and are likely quite thankful that there's someone stopping Moldova from forcing its will on them.
WW3_doomer@reddit
Moldova, Georgia, Ukraine (three times)
zeigdeinepapiere@reddit
So apart from Ukraine, we have an internal USSR conflict and a war that Georgia started
Your examples seem rather underwhelming for such a strong statement?
TicketFew9183@reddit
Both things are true.
StickyThickStick@reddit
How is Europe a warmorger?
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
They want to to keep fighting
StickyThickStick@reddit
When you mean “they want to keep defending” as warmorgering you’re a clown.
We saw how well appeasement worked with hitler. Yes let’s do it a second time and let a dictator attack all its neighbours
TicketFew9183@reddit
That’s true, that’s why Russia can’t ever appease with deals an entity like NATO that attacks outside its borders.
StickyThickStick@reddit
Damn that’s why Russia had to invade Georgia and Ukraine these two nato countries keep attacking its neighbours
TicketFew9183@reddit
Yes, NATO attacks countries that aren’t even a threat to them. Any country that isn’t full of idiots would squash any bordering country from joint such an alliance.
StickyThickStick@reddit
There have been 4 operations out of which 2 has been a UN Mission.
The two that werent: - Kosovo - Afghanistan
It isn’t like you said that NATO is constantly being a thread whilst these two operations had justifications like a ongoing genocide in Kosovo
Russia litteraly said they only accept a peace with Ukraine when it gives its eastern territory to Russia. This should be enough to show that this has been a war solely due to its imperialistic ambitions
StickyThickStick@reddit
Looked it up and the ISAF by NATO was permitted by all 7+1 Members of the UNSC so the only non UN approved Mission has been Kosovo
beefprime@reddit
Pushing western influence into Ukraine and getting it to attempt to join NATO was a provocative move that was guaranteed to get a military response from Russia if successful, the west continues to expand eastward into the Russian sphere of influence and continues to completely ignore warnings that this will inevitably cause some push back as they push into core geopolitical space (like for example threatening to swamp Russian bases in Crimea with NATO presence or base NATO troops on the Russian border with Ukraine).
This has been a long standing thing: the west makes an aggressive, overtly expansionist move like basing nuclear missiles in Turkey, moving NATO into Poland despite assurances that it was done expanding eastward, etc., and then the Soviet/Russian response is cast as aggression to excuse more expansion.
Just responding here is a mistake, some clueless westerner high on propaganda will come in to reply about how it was just this organic magical revolution against the evil Russian aligned politicians and pretend like the west hasn't been pumping many, many millions into propaganda/influence campaigns in Eastern Europe, as if the west hasn't been propping up and magnifying far right nationalist groups in Ukraine, etc.
I won't respond to anything else, but I'll just say: if you really care about Ukrainians, you would not be hungry to try and detach them from their direct neighbors by trying to coax them into an explicitly hostile military alliance against them. This is a geopolitical game to the US and Europe, while for Ukraine and Russia this situation is an existential threat, it was never going to turn out well for Ukrainians and NATO (in a perfect world where they actually gave a shit about the welfare of the citizens on either side of this conflict) should have explicitly and openly shut down any suggestion that Ukraine would join it.
Strikingprotocol@reddit
Oh no you seem to be falling for Russian propaganda, don't worry I'm here to save you:
-Russia in 1994 with Budapest momerandum confirmed Ukraine sovereignty of 1991 borders (including Crimea) and commited to defend Ukraine from agression within 1991 borders
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum
-Russia in 2003 tried to take Tusla island despite Treaty on Friendship, cooperation and partnership between Ukraine and the Russian Federation" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Tuzla_Island_conflict
-Russia tried to manipulate 2004 elections leading to Orange revolution https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/how-ukraines-orange-revolution-shaped-twenty-first-century-geopolitics with several districts reported voter turnout greater than 100 percent in eastern Ukraine for pro russian candidate https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/orange-revolution-ukraine-votes-for-change
-Russia that said there were no russian soldiers in Crimea:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mz44_-T_PC4
-Russia claimed Ukraine bomb Donbass for no reason while shooting from residential areas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdFAwJe53os https://youtu.be/vqvA49lWJuI?si=X7X_33lydJcj2opp I would like if you could please point out extensive damage from 8 years of shelling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxVIT-5CfHk while DPR and LPR were being led by people who act like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yoOrZSHZyY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4dJ1Xu4Dhc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQmTaOxtSCM
-Russia proxy forces claimed they didn't shoot down an airliner and then took celebratory pictures at crash site https://imgur.com/a/9YcjNAI
-Russia claimed there is a bio-virus spread by birds made to kill specifically Russians https://www.rand.org/pubs/commentary/2022/09/debunking-russian-lies-about-biolabs-at-upcoming-un.html
-Russia is closer to the Africa then to the west https://imgur.com/a/d2Lzw1R
-Russia chooses propaganda based on the world region https://imgur.com/a/v5rEJnu
-Russia claimed Eu will fall apart due to lack of natural gas https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/zuj7lx/russian_state_broadcaster_rt_has_a_christmas/
-Russia claimed Ukraine counter offensive to Kharkiv was minimal and will be stopped easily "There is not panic. In Balakleya there were mostly mobilized." https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3583705-how-propaganda-of-putins-regime-cracked-during-ukraine-armys-counteroffensive.html
-Russia continuously spreads fakes about Zelensky buying villas and luxury cars https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-new-fakes-on-zelenskyys-purported-wealth/a-69552392
-Russia continues to deny massacre in Bucha and it saying that it was UAF who killed civilians for cooperating with enemies https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrGZ66uKcl0
-Russia falsely claimed Ukraine hit its own civilians in Kramatorsk with a Tochka-U missile. However, media affiliated with the DPR published videos showing missile launches from separatist-controlled Shakhtarsk before the strikes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wikiKramatorsk_railway_station_attack
-Russia claims will nuke rest of the world once a week https://imgur.com/a/Zb8A5Nk
-Russia is lying Nazis are in power in the Ukraine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzkwrOXXc5U while being friend with Neo nazi Dmitry Utkin https://romea.cz/en/world/the-times-putin-has-sent-mercenaries-to-kyiv-led-by-an-admirer-of-the-nazis-to-murder-zelenskyy-and-the-klitschko-brothers, military commander of the Russian state-funded Wagner Group and https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusich_Group
-Russia funded PCM Wagner had hands in multiple massacres high double digit in the Africa AGAINST CIVILIANS to gain access to gold mines: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abe%C3%AFbara_massacres https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%C3%AFgbado_massacre, https://en.wikipedia.orgwikiDangu%C3%A8r%C3%A8_Wotoro_massacre, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hombori_massacre, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidal_offensive, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_2022_attacks_in_the_Central_African_Republic, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moura_massacre
-Russia employs PMC Wagner that publicly executed one of their deserters with a sledgehammer https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/sledgehammer-execution-russian-mercenary-who-defected-ukraine-shown-video-2022-11-13/ and then sent blood smeared sledgehammer to EU https://www.occrp.org/en/news/putins-chef-sends-bloody-sledgehammer-to-eu-parliament
-Russia that claims Wagner coup was feint
-Russia launched faked 'nazi' attack on ethnic russians geolocated deep in donbass https://imgur.com/a/nKOWoa4
-side that pushes propaganda trough Orthodox church, then lies Ukraine is suppressing religion freedom
-side that claims they offered peace deal to Ukraine, obfuscating the fact condition to ONLY START negotiation is Ukraine leaving 4 oblasts in their full and complete disarmament.
-side that lies that a Ukrainian defense missile caused the destruction of Okhmatdyt Children's Hospital on July 8, 2024.
-Bizarrely included Sims 3 among evidence of ‘staged’ plot https://imgur.com/a/AukxGZl
-side that claims Kiev was just a feint and that they backed out because somehow NATO forced them out, that it was good will gesture and that Putin didn't ever wanted to occupy all of Ukraine.
-side that laughs at EU inflation while having comparable one with 16%+ interest rate
-side that saw USA's leaked documents about russian and ukrainian losses and then photoshopped them to look better for russia
-side that says Ukrainians in occupied lands are treated fairly, when in fact they have to have russian passport or their land and houses will be taken -side that claimed after Bahkmut fails so will rest of Ukraine and calling anybody who told them that there are hills behind of Bahkmut that they have no idea what they are talking about
-Russia destabilises eu with: immigrants: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/29/putin-russia-wagner-militia-africa-immigration-europe/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/07/18/russia-ukraine-war-migration-food-crisis-putin/
BLM: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_and_Black_Lives_Matter
anti-fracking groups (so they can sell more gas) thehill.com/opinion/energy-environment/596304-investigate-russias-covert-funding-of-us-anti-fossil-fuel-groups/ https://www.newsweek.com/intelligence-putin-funding-anti-fracking-campaign-547873 https://thenewamerican.com/world-news/europe/nato-head-russia-is-funding-anti-fracking-movement/
-side that kidnaps ukrainians children which is according the UN genocide https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-children-abducted-by-russia-left-with-psychological-scars-campaigners-2024-06-15/ (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/Genocide%20Convention-FactSheet-ENG.pdf
-side that criticises the west for ecalation, even though you started this war TWICE, brough Iranian and North Korean missiles and NK's soldiers
-"Sanctions are not working, and thats why we base every "peace" negotiation on droping them."
SuperKiller94@reddit
Russia invaded Ukraine and Russia is targeting civilians and your takeaway is that NATO is the bad guy for saying they need to increase their military manufacturing and continue supporting Ukraine?
Plethorum@reddit
As much criticism can be directed towards NATO, russia is just so much worse. Anyone that claims otherwise is either an idiot or trying to trick you into believing that russia isnt a malevolent cancer on the free world
geltance@reddit
Russia is much worse by what metric?
Typical_Response6444@reddit
the starting stupid wars metric
Plethorum@reddit
Starting wars of aggression, performing genocide, interfering with other countries politics to name a few
geltance@reddit
So same thing NATO countries do?
Plethorum@reddit
NATO is a defensive alliance.
Are you suggesting that since some countries in NATO have done awful things before, then that gives russia a free pass to do the same?
Or is this just another case of whataboutism to desperately try to deflect from the fact that russia has invaded a sovereign country and is performing genocide on that population?
geltance@reddit
Rules have to apply to all. If NATO countries don't follow said rules then neither should others be tied by said rules.
Plethorum@reddit
OR, it is possible to criticize both sides (and proportional to the severity of the violation).
Im sorry, but there is no way for you to convince me that "genocide is ok"
geltance@reddit
You said Russia is much worse than NATO. NATO members have engaged in conflicts much more often in last 2 decades and committed numerous war crimes that ICC is too scared to even touch the culprits.
Plethorum@reddit
They have intervened too eagerly several times, but NATO has not yet started wars of aggression like russia has (Ukraine, Georgia, Transnistria).
Not to mention supporting dictatorships like assad in syria
geltance@reddit
Lol.. not started wars of aggression..are you living under the rock?
You should look into who helped topple governments in middle east that lead to dictators..while you are there have a read about how amazing the new Syrian leader is.
Jfc people are delusional
Plethorum@reddit
Which wars have NATO started?
We'll see about the new guy, but its hard to beat assad in brutality as a dictator. Hopefully, the country moves in a slightly better and more democratic direction
SWatersmith@reddit
There is literally zero evidence that they're targeting civilians. You know this, because if they were, it would be all over the news.
theBadRoboT84@reddit
People really need to learn the proper use of "literally." You can "literally" find a ton of videos just tipying "russia", "attack", "civilian", and judge for yourself.
And I'm deliberately avoiding any Bucha-related links to steer clear of the usual suspects.
SWatersmith@reddit
If Russia were targeting civilians, I would expect there to have been more than 10,000 casualties in Ukrainian-controlled land over the course of 38 months. As far as war goes, that is quite low.
Dependent-Dream7180@reddit
In just a single 6 month period (Dec 2024 to May 31st), Russia killed or injured about 6 thousand Ukrainian civilians according to the UN. The total amount over the past 38 months is much higher. https://news.un.org/en/story/2025/06/1165116
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
But even that, assuming it is true, is not as dramatic as you make it out to be.
In any war, civilian deaths usually correlate to military deaths at least a 1:1 ratio.
The reported civilian deaths in this war are much smaller than the military deaths, which Ukraine says is over 1,000,000
Dependent-Dream7180@reddit
I just stated a fact, I didn't dramatize anything.
No they don't. Stop defending Russia killing civilians.
theBadRoboT84@reddit
I'm not sure how the number standards work for the Russian Government. They used 3000 civilian deaths in a 8 year civil war to call it a genocide and justify their invasion.
SWatersmith@reddit
I'm not here to justify Russia's invasion of Ukraine; I'm simply stating that it's odd to accuse Russia of targeting civilians when they have been winning a war that has resulted in a lower civilian death rate than any other major conflict that I'm aware of.
Arrow156@reddit
Winning? They were being bleed dry when Ukraine had the ammunition. They had to get material and troop support from North Korea because they already burnt through their entire cold war stockpile. Should Putin run afoul of Trump and military support resumes, Russia's fucked.
SWatersmith@reddit
Read the headline.
Arrow156@reddit
So Russia make four times as much ammo as NATO, how long has NATO been stockpiling it's military production? The munition given to Ukraine wasn't current gen, hell, it was likely manufactured during one of the Gulf Wars. Ukraine managed to wipe out Russia's military arsenal using NATO's hand-me-downs.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
Well if it’s deaths associated with our side, we underestimate it and downplay it.
If it’s deaths associated with their side, we exaggerate it and overestimate.
Arrow156@reddit
The reason we aren't seeing IDF levels of civilian casualties isn't for a lack of trying. Russia's overall performance in Ukraine has been 'quite low', they are quickly approaching the third year of their three day military operation.
CuriousCat31441@reddit
you forgot /s
SWatersmith@reddit
I didn't, thanks though.
CuriousCat31441@reddit
wow. where do you live might I ask? because where I live, I see constantly news about Russia bombing and killing civilians.
TicketFew9183@reddit
I see them move thousands of civilians out of war zones but that gets categorized as kidnapping. Maybe Europe wants Russia to treat civilians how Israel does.
CuriousCat31441@reddit
XDD jesus christ....
Plethorum@reddit
russia kidnaps Ukrainian children for forced adoption and indoctrination. "rUsSiA iS JuSt MoViNg tHeM OuT oF wAr ZoNeS"
CuriousCat31441@reddit
I don't even know which one is worse, them actually believing that shit or them intentionally spreading propaganda. In any case, this subreddit is wild sometimes.
TicketFew9183@reddit
Literally what is happening. You can cry about it or would you rather Russia do the Israeli method?
CuriousCat31441@reddit
The Israeli also just want to move the palestinians out of gaza in order to protect them from harm :((
TicketFew9183@reddit
The damage is already done there. Unlucky for Ukraine they still have a lot to lose. I hope you show as much empathy for them as you did for Palestinians.
Seeing Europeans cry about one of their own getting what they do to others is pretty funny.
CuriousCat31441@reddit
Brother, you are either a troll or absolutely lost. best of luck to you.
Plethorum@reddit
OR, they could gtfo of another sovereign country's territory and stop killing Ukrainians
TicketFew9183@reddit
Nope. Ukraine shouldn’t have tried to ethnically cleanse their Russian minority. Actions have consequences.
You’re so close to Russia. If you really want to stop them join the Ukrainian foreign legion. They’re running out of 18 year olds to kidnap.
Plethorum@reddit
With no due respect, whatever Ukraine has done pales in comparison to what the current imperialistic, piece of shit cuntry of russia is doing.
Anyone that tries to argue that russia is in some way justified in genociding Ukraine are despicable and should be strongly condemned
Arrow156@reddit
Perhaps you should read something other than state sponsored media, eh comrade?
TicketFew9183@reddit
Says the person who believes news from the US and EU intelligence departments.
Arrow156@reddit
Ah yes, everything that doesn't glorify Mother Russia is the work of spies and propaganda.
SuperKiller94@reddit
Bombing schools, hospitals and apartment buildings isn’t targeting civilians?
frizzykid@reddit
You say that but it's widely known that cities along the border with Russia like kherson are described as "human safaris" for Russian fpv operators ☠️☠️☠️
Outside-Ice7566@reddit
Literally zero?? Bruh ur delusional. You can see fpv footage posted by russians hitting civilian cars, roof workers and emergency services in Kherson. Drones striking bomb shelter entrances in Kyiv, the dnipro-odessa train . But yeah literally zero my guy.
theBadRoboT84@reddit
People really need to learn the proper use of "literally."
I literally just found one evidence just typing "Russia", "attack", "civilian". Judge for yourself:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1jhz8z/russian_drone_attacks_people_in_kherson_repairing/
And I'm deliberately avoiding any Bucha-related links to steer clear of the usual suspects.
theBadRoboT84@reddit
People need to learn how to use the word 'literally'.
I literally just found one evidence: https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1jhzk8z/russian_drone_attacks_people_in_kherson_repairing/
geltance@reddit
Russia targeting civilians. 500 drones and missiles... Civilians casualties 1.. how delusional are you?
Immortal_Tuttle@reddit
Europe needs to increase its ammo output for sure, but let's not get scared.
1500 tanks - yes, but that's including repaired and refurbished ones. They refurbish 300 T-64 per year, building 350 T-72 series, of which only 150 are fitted to T-90 standard, the rest is using gen1 optoelectronics. The rest are tanks that are repaired and/or pulled out of storage (which often have only the seals changed - so still in category of refurbished, but not really upgraded in any other way)
With Iskander missiles - don't forget there are two types of them. Iskander-M, which is aeroballistic, and Iskander-K - which is a cruise missile (K- from krylata -"winged"). Russia is manufacturing 150 Iskander M per year, but this actually will change in 2 months when it will be ramped up to 25 per month (roughly 300 per year). It was supposed to happen last year, but due to some ... issues (terminal velocity only Mach 2.5, so falling into Patriot PAC 2 envelope, which caused a lead designer being fired) it was delayed. Iskander-K is manufactured at a pace which allows replenishment of it, but due to shortage of small turbojet engines, which are mostly used in superior missiles like Kh-101 and Kh-65, they are manufactured at the rate of 30-35 per year.
This will change next year, when last T-64 will be dug out of the storage and the refurbishing program will end (it was scheduled for 3 years). The plan is then to move fully from refurbishing to production and move refurbishing to recently started to be rebuild - repair centers. It would allow to manufacture 600 new tanks per year and refurbish/refit/repair around a 1000-1200 more. However to do so, Russia needs additional 50 000 workers in steel and heavy machinery industry, which have to be mostly imported. As they sent their own to the front lines.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
Russia had the largest tank building capacity in the world before the war. Last year (2024) they produced about 300 T90Ms.
So almost three times as many tanks as the British Army has.
As for the refurbished or repaired tanks. A tank is a tank. They are refurbishing and churning out a lot of T-72B3s, which are on par with any Western tank today.
Overall, I would be wary of all these estimates.
This article is an example of what happens when we all decide that the enemy can only produce this much.
Then later it turns out they produce way more!
We don’t control how much Russia produces. They do.
And we are not attacking or disrupting Russian production.
IDKK1238703@reddit
Calling a t72b3 “on par with any western tank” is a lie. It’s significantly superior at tossing its turret 50+ meters into the air whenever penetrated, sure, not much else though. It’s still a t72, just with new kit, and even that doesn’t work very well. A tank is also not always a tank, for example, the pre t 72 tanks that we are beginning to see are quite literally logistical dead weight. They need new shells, spare parts, and differently trained crews, and are only protected by hopes and dreams against even basic modern man portable AT munitions (or drones).
Also, LOGISTICS. It doesn’t matter how many tanks you have when they’re out of basic supplies. If you have 3x as many tanks as the British, that means you have to have the spare parts, extra crews and their replacements, extra shells, extra fuel, extra vehicles to transport everything, and larger infrastructure to support those vehicles. You also have to defend them, which Russia is piss poor at.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
Are they out of basic supplies?
You are commenting on an article about the NATO Secretary General saying Russia produces 4 times as many artillery and the entire West combined.
Russia is actually very good at dispersing logistics and choke points. They have proven to be extremely adaptable.
When EW became a problem for their FPV drones, they switched to fiber optic cables.
And considering they keep on creating turtle tanks, I think it’s safe to say they are doing fine.
IDKK1238703@reddit
Turtle tanks… you mean tanks which have incredibly limited situational awareness, because they’re fucking boxed in? They’re literally barn sized, and blind as hell. Russian armor already had terrible situational awareness, now it’s EVEN WORSE.
Russian logistics is not going well. “Extremely adaptable” means that they switched to civilian vehicles after they started running out of legitimate trucks to use. For fucks sake, they made an armored train. It’s 2025, not 1917. (It was also a shit armored train)
Yes, they are out of basic supplies, as we have seen in many videos of troops being told to use tampons as first aid, being issued fake gear, or having cardboard ERA.
Also, you’re the one who mentioned tanks first.
Immortal_Tuttle@reddit
300 T-90M, but they had only enough modern optoelectronics to fit around 150 of them. Around 200 T-72 were modernized to B3 standard.
However in 2024 Russian army received roughly 280 tanks of both types in total - 200 T-72B3 and less than a 100 of T-90M. Most probably because they ran out of gen 1 optoelectronics to retrofit T-90m chassis with. Gen 3 production still yields only 13% of usable matrices. All SOSNA-U production was allocated to B3 upgrade program due to integration and man hours required. After initial tests no Sosna-U integration was recommended or scheduled for T-90M.
No one underestimates Russia capabilities, but steel chassis and engine are not enough to build a combat ready vehicle.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/08/07/a-shortage-of-optics-was-holding-back-russian-tank-production-that-shortage-may-have-ended/
Oh yeah, lol. I remember that! Apparently tanks don’t work unless they have Thales optics in them. Forgot about that part.
Now, despite what you claim, it is contradicted even by what Western military think tanks are now admitting, that yes, Russia did actually produce 1500 tanks in 2024.
Immortal_Tuttle@reddit
Did you actually read what I wrote? Yes, Russia developed their own IR matrix sensor. Yes, they started to manufacture it. However due to size the yield was only around 13%. Process consumes their (still limited) resources in semiconductors. Those sensors are big, so you cannot effectively use the whole wafer and during testing 87% are faulty.
Just for kicks: procurement order of ФЭМ18М-03
Delivery of the product МФТВ ФЭМ18М-03 — KTRU 1043-2018-00752 Delivery of the product МФТВ ФЭМ18М-03 https://share.google/tSfC7EDnLJwpAInz4
Interesting read.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
So because they don’t have a certain optic, the entire tank is useless?
Immortal_Tuttle@reddit
Seriously - at least read first what I wrote before asking questions already answered. Please.
soggybiscuit93@reddit
There is a very big distinction between the ability to produce a new tank and the ability to refurbished a tank you inherited from the Soviet Union. There's only so many tanks you can refurbish and Russia has refurbished a lot already.
Excluding T-55, there's a little over 3000 left in deep storage of all variants. And the easiest to restore have already been restored. Several hundred of those 3,000 are likely beyond the ability to repair. Russia, known for being a power that relies heavily on tanks and artillery, between the breakup of the Soviet Union, disarmament, and the War, now has about the same amount of tanks in the field and in storage as the US does.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
The ability does not matter that much if the output is basically the same.
The point is that they are putting 1500 tanks in the field is the only thing they matters.
And since they are refurbishing tanks, it is faster and costs substantially less than building a new tank.
Every single type of that prediction has turned out to be wrong
soggybiscuit93@reddit
Tank deep storage is out in the open, available to see if you want to purchase the satellite images. There is no secret underground, unknown bunker holding tons of decomissioned, waiting for refurb T72s.
The point is that they're drawing down inherited USSR stockpiles and don't have the same industrial base as the USSR. I don't know if the war will last long enough to see Russia reach the point where they can no longer refurb tanks due to none-more available in storage, but that point does exist, so the fact that the vast majority of Russian tank "production" is drawing upon a stockpile they can't easily replace is an important distinction to make.
And if Russia is drawing on 1,500 tanks from their stockpiles per year, how does that compare to their currently fielded tank numbers? Does Russia have more tanks each month in Ukraine than the previous month?
Strikingprotocol@reddit
they are far superior. they can be turned into low-orbit satelite!
Wappening@reddit
A « North American » flair claiming Russian T-72B3s are on par with any western tank today.
Sure.
CakeTester@reddit
It's sort of an apple/orange comparison. NATO countries aren't making all that much ammo because we're not trying to genocide neighbouring countries. Been there done that. So we're not using ammo, so the need for replacement is significantly less.
The question should be: "Do we have enough ammo in stock to utterly twat an aggressor?" If yes, then we just have to replace older ammo that is past it's sell-by date. If no, then we need to ramp up production a bit.
The other question is "If NATO does get into a tussle, can we ramp up production enough to cope with the increased demand?"
Dpek1234@reddit
Also nato isnt artillery focused
CakeTester@reddit
Air ownership is much nicer, and everyone gets home for dinner. Artillery is like plan 5 after everything else has gone wrong. If it gets to that, we're probably on nukes anyway.
ikaiyoo@reddit
And it matters for what? They could make as much ammo in a fucking week as the entire planet does in a decade and they still can't get more than 130 fucking miles into a goddamn country they outnumber military-wise ten to fucking one. Who gives a shit. If they can't do anything with the fucking ammo it doesn't God damn matter.
Dpek1234@reddit
Thats the problem with these articles
They could claim everything they want
The results dont show that
Before the war there wasnt really much to check, but now?
Aenjeprekemaluci@reddit
Europe should rearm for deterrence only. We see what the war is doing to both sides demographics. Most European frontline nations would completely collapse demographically even more, even in a winning scenario leaving them with no scenario if Europe would intervene. Whats also needed, more industrial vocational training even if its just civilian, can be converted militarily, as most people seem not to pursue those sectors. Btw. Look at China. Yeah they are developing at rapid pace for their economoc clout but that can also be rapidly used for defence. Europe lacks this.
zapreon@reddit
Hiroshima and Nagasaki were on their pre-nuke growth path within 15 years. With stability, enough capital and political will, these places can easily recover.
Aenjeprekemaluci@reddit
Meant demographically.
zapreon@reddit
Even in Ukraine we can see that most of the population will just remain.
Mrauntheias@reddit
That doesn't help you if the median age of your population is suddenly 60. When there are not enough young people in a society to reproduce and work social contracts start to break down. Look at what is already happening to countries like Germany or South Korea because of an aging population. Losing a significant part of the workforce to a war would only worsen those developments.
Aenjeprekemaluci@reddit
Their demographics are screwed. But so are most in Europe. Actually we arent in a position for war. But rather forced into it.
Plethorum@reddit
The gremlin in the kremlin forced Europe into this war by illegally invading Ukraine like
Plethorum@reddit
Europe needs to step up and get Ukraine whatever they need. If not, russia will invade someone else later
SunderedValley@reddit
I'm only shocked that they're shocked. The arms industry employs a quarter of the country's entire manufacturing output. They added over 520 thousand new jobs since the invasion.
40% of their economic growth comes from weapons manufacturing.
8% of their GDP is dedicated to armaments.
They're laser focused on this.
https://xcancel.com/jurgen_nauditt/status/1906356861915271203
https://xcancel.com/joni_askola/status/1841027896489468348
The key problem is this: Europe and NATO had nearly a decade to prepare and instead just sat on their hands until the secondary push into Ukraine.
None of this required prescience. All of this was avoidable.
Strikingprotocol@reddit
Blame Merkel and her "peace though trade"
NeoLephty@reddit
WE GAVE ICE MORE MONEY THAN THE RUSSIAN MILITARY!!!!!!!!!!!
I feel it needs to be screamed that our DOMESTIC military is more well funded than one of the largest countries in the world who is currently engaged in a war.
steepleton@reddit
You’d think they’d be doing better then
Relative_Business_81@reddit
No shit they are, they’re in an active war. Why would NATO need to do that? We’re not trying to topple of free nation currently. It would literally all go sit in a warehouse somewhere like a damn Indiana Jones movie. Imagine doing that for decades and the level of waste produced from unused mountains of munitions collecting dust. Why in the Sam fuck would we need to do that right now? What a complete monkey.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
It would go to Ukraine.
We all know that.
We should just be open about things and admit that we totally arm Ukraine and our production of something is their production.
mfb-@reddit
Russia Makes As Much Ammo in 3 Months As NATO in a Year.
Russia also shoots as much ammo in a day as NATO does in a year.
Plethorum@reddit
Well, Ukraine could use some of the leftover weappns though, so increasing production is not a bad idea
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