Google co-founder Sergey Brin calls U.N. ‘transparently antisemitic’ after report on tech firms and Gaza | report alleges that Google profited from Israel’s “genocide”
Posted by Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 177 comments
DM_me_goth_tiddies@reddit
I made this comment yesterday and got massively downvoted despite no one being able to give me anything approaching an answer:
I think part of the issue I find when asking questions like this is people just get really angry and all the comments I got were some effect of ‘why are you denying a GENOCIDE’ but after spending some time doing the research it does seem very unusual for a UN special rapporteur to use the language they have.
t0xic_sh0t@reddit
Actually experts on genocide say that is a genocide.
https://www.lemkininstitute.com/statements-new-page/four-facts-about-israel%E2%80%99s-genocide
xland44@reddit
A quick google search of the Lemkin Institute shows that these "experts" founded their organization in 2021 with their goal to redefine Genocide to be broader than the one found in the 1948 Genocide Convention.
In October 13, just 6 days after October 7 (mind you, this was two weeks before Israel entered the Gaza strip, Israel was still busy clearing cities, villages and military bases in Israel of Hamas terrorists), they published an alert criticizing Israel of genocide.
No, these aren't experts, they're a political organization attempting to redefine an established term to fulfill a political agenda.
DM_me_goth_tiddies@reddit
Yes, I 100% agree. But just like ‘actual murder experts’ might agree that OJ did it, he is still an alleged murder. That’s what the word alleged means.
This is an alleged genocide. Who alleges it? Experts! Genocide experts! How does it go from alleged genocide to gencocide? By going through the ICJ
Rafabas@reddit
Is the Holocaust only an “alleged genocide” too then?
DM_me_goth_tiddies@reddit
No, thanks to the Nuremberg Trials.
JrSoftDev@reddit
No, there was a genocide happening before the trials. That's why the trials reached that conclusion later.
Rafabas@reddit
The Nuremberg Trials barely had anything to do with genocide - the concept had only recently been invented at the time.
What I'm asking is whether you believe the Holocaust was a genocide while it was happening.
DM_me_goth_tiddies@reddit
Yes, you’re the one posting links to the Lemkin foundation, he was the one who coined the term in ‘44 and was frustrated that they were tried with crimes against humanity. I’m fully aware of thr history of the term.
The Holocaust was a genocide while it was happening, and we know that thanks to retrospect. At the time, people did not know the scale of the Holocaust. Nuremberg brought to light the scale of the genocide.
At the time, if you didn’t have the gift of retrospect, I would not be surprised if international organisations called it an alleged crime against humanity until the conclusion of the Trials.
That is my point. Lay people could have called it a crime against humanity or a genocide, but i would expect people like the UN Special Rapporteur to use the correct language, and I would have expected whatever we would consider their counterparts in 1945 to use the same language during thr trial as well.
IAMADon@reddit
The Allied governments used language such as "bestial policy of cold-blooded extermination" to describe what the Nazi's were doing as early as 1942.
Rafabas@reddit
Man this is a fascinating but tragic article. Crazy to see the parallels with what's going on in reporting on Gaza today.
Rafabas@reddit
The UN Special Rapporteur isn't a judge. Their role is more akin to a prosecutor - them stating they believe a genocide is occuring is them "alleging" it.
What language do you want them to use? "We allege that Israel is committing an alleged genocide"?
Rafabas@reddit
Also, you would be well-served by actually reading the article, particularly:
“These industries have for far too long ignored the voices of threatened communities and engaged in gatekeeping of the term ‘genocide’ to the extent that it can only ‘correctly’ be used by lawyers who graduated from elite European universities and who are involved in expensive trials decades after the violence has concluded.”
DM_me_goth_tiddies@reddit
I said very clearly in my first comment, that I have no problem with people calling it a genocide. “Fair play, you can post whatever you want” I said. I’m not trying to gate keep it.
I’m talking specifically about the UN Special Rapporteur. I’m asking, don’t they have a higher duty of care, because of their role, to use the correct language?
Like I said in my original comment, if you, a random on Reddit want to call it a genocide before the trial is over, have at jt. I don’t care.
JrSoftDev@reddit
You are trying to force a surgical cleaned meaning to the word "genocide", but the concept prevails outside of legal context https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide
What Francesca and ALL experts are saying is that a genocide is clearly ongoing. They reviewed thousands of declarations, decisions and orders made by the Israeli government that clearly indicate the intent. Proving the intent is the only current legal obstacle to calling it a genocide in legal documents, and everyone knows why - to prove intent, the genocide has to have occurred already and only then can it be legally proven.
But they are calling it a genocide now because that's what it is, and they already see all the evidence that will allow it to be proven. They call it what it is, they describe what is happening, and they are trying to prevent further atrocities.
And a final note. Even if it wasn't genocide, there are still a huge list of war crimes being committed, including ethnic cleansing and intentional mass starvation of an entire people.
There will be a special court for this. Thankfully, Sergey Brin is making it easier for those judges when the time arises to decide who's the next genocidal enabler in line, after the Israeli government and some other obvious figures getting the verdict.
captain_zavec@reddit
The "alleged xyz" framing is probably because there are laws about libel/defamation. I don't know of any such provisions relating to countries.
DetonateTheVestibule@reddit
If people really got into definitions, they’d realize that the Palestinians are at high risk of being victim to ethnic cleansing, but low risk of genocide. Members of the cabinet have suggested forcefully moving the Palestinians to outside of Gaza, which is quite nearly the definition of ethnic cleansing (done along the lines of citizenship, not race per se, but with the same effect). Is it the case that Israel will try to kill all of the Palestinians as an attempt to destroy the ethnic group? Possible but unlikely. And so the charge of genocide is not strictly speaking accurate.
But people hate Israel and they hate the violence they have seen over the past couple years. They want to attach the most extreme word they can use to describe the awful things they’ve seen and been told.
None of this is to say that Israel is in the right. Waging war against your small neighbor for two years with no endgame is reckless and cruel.
Exostrike@reddit
because once the word has been said by a UN/government offical it cannot be unsaid and legally things have to happen. But it won't because the US will block and cause the international legal system to crack, so everyone is walking the line trying to avoid that from happening
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
Many people or groups do not seem worried about cracking things, it seems...
imunfair@reddit
Part of the UN arrest warrant was due to the genocidal statements by high ranking members of the Israeli government. So your question is akin to asking "why don't we call it alleged murder even if the murderer has admitted their murderous intention in prior press conferences and public statements?" At this point such wording would just be a disingenuous fig leaf.
redelastic@reddit
The issue with the ICJ is that can take several years to make a ruling on if something officially constitutes a genocide.
Meanwhile, the genocide is continuing right now and will likely be finished by the time they give their official decision.
Anyway, Israel disregards international law and has the US being their bully boy protector. They simply do not care.
Many leading genocide experts concur that it is a genocide.
Maybe people downvoted you because it came across like you are a genocide denier or trying to minimise the seriousness of these crimes?
Call it whatever you want - genocide, ethnic cleansing, war crimes, crimes against humanity, mass murder of children - it doesn't materially change the appalling atrocities Israel has committed.
SomeDumRedditor@reddit
But sure Sergei, tell me again how the U.N. is the problem and always-upstanding, focused on humanist outcomes and bettering the world Google/Alphabet Inc. care. It’s so telling that (per the article) Sergei barely ever talks in Google internal comms channels but came crawling out of the woodwork to respond to… let me see here… an AI researcher expressing dismay that the company’s work could be furthering genocide.
One imagines Sergei could watch IDF shovel Palestinians into ovens and still clutch his pearls about antisemitic labelling of Israel.
It’s also so fucking tiresome. Nuke Silicon Valley, put these billionaires against the wall, send the complicit political class to the gulag and let’s start again.
DavidAdamsAuthor@reddit
"Reddit has reviewed your comment and found it does not advocate violence."
:')
party_core_@reddit
forward a screenshot of this to your favorite billionaire, I'm sure they'll shower you in cash for coming to their defence
DavidAdamsAuthor@reddit
party_core_@reddit
As an "author", I would think you'd be opposed to using quotations to put your words in other people's mouths
But maybe the rules are different for mid sci-fi
DavidAdamsAuthor@reddit
Explain how it's inaccurate to your true intention.
party_core_@reddit
my true intention (ooh, sinister) should've been blatantly obvious, especially to an "author"
if I must explicitly lay it out, I was saying that white knighting for billionaires is, at best, pointless, since they neither know nor care about us plebes, and won't reward you for the effort
the fact that you warped what I said into some weird thing wherein I was somehow implying you're paid just means you were more interested in finding a way to make yourself seem righteous and put-upon than maybe reflecting on the pointlessness of defending the obscenely wealthy's honour
toodles
SurturOfMuspelheim@reddit
"There's class warfare, all right, but it's my class, the rich class, that's making war, and we're winning." - Warren Buffet
The rich understand class warfare, why don't you?
DavidAdamsAuthor@reddit
Heard that one before.
SurturOfMuspelheim@reddit
You know it's easy to 'win' every argument when you just make up the other persons argument.
DavidAdamsAuthor@reddit
If you don't think we could dramatically improve society by killing the ~~Jews~~ bankers I'd love to hear it, because everything you've said simply suggests that the Venn diagram of who you want to kill and the Nazis want to kill is pretty damn close, just the "why" is different.
CrankyOldGrinch@reddit
Except that's you projecting your racism. Everyone else is talking about how billionaires are a terminal weight on the system and you decided to conflate that with a race of people.
DavidAdamsAuthor@reddit
Explain to me how killing all the people you want to kill won't target disproportionately Jewish people.
I'd love to see those stats.
CrankyOldGrinch@reddit
I'll tell you why, first, the people perpetuating the system belong to many different faiths. Second, because this has nothing to do with religion or race, and everything to do with the fact that capitalism is killing the United States for its citizens who aren't billionaires. (Leaving aside for a minute the stomach-churning horrors it unleashed on the global south).
The US has experienced consistent, successive economic crashes that have concentrated wealth further and further. People are sick and tired of being pitted against one another by people to whom our yearly paychecks are a rounding error.
I don't care what religion or nationality you belong to, stop making it impossible to feed my kids.
DavidAdamsAuthor@reddit
Okay, I'm listening.
But they are disproportionately Jewish.
This does not answer the question, "Explain to me how killing all the people you want to kill won't target disproportionately Jewish people.
Does not address the disproportionately Jewish nature of the mass-killings.
So you're okay with killing the "Jewish bankers", same as the Nazis, as long as they are killed because they are bankers, not because they're Jewish?
I'm sure that will be a big comfort to them.
CrankyOldGrinch@reddit
Your pathetic attempts to reframe this as antisemitic are genuinely disgusting.
DavidAdamsAuthor@reddit
I don't really feel much shame at being called disgusting from someone who openly wants to mass-murder large numbers of people.
By the way, the global Jewish population is approximately 15-16 million people, which is about 0.2% of the world's population.
The total number of billionaires on the 2023 Forbes list was 2,640. Roughly 260-400 of them are estimated to be Jewish.
Like I said: the killings would be disproportionately Jewish (10%-15%, max 20% for 0.2% of the population), and they would be done for much the same reasons as the Nazis ("hoarding wealth", "parasite class" and so on).
Of course, the Holocaust wasn't 100% Jews either. 6 million Jewish victims / 11 million total victims ≈ 54.5%.
So it's okay, you're not quite as disportionate as the Nazis, even if you are quite disproportionate.
CrankyOldGrinch@reddit
Billionaire is not an immutable characteristic, if they agree to have it taxed away then they're no longer screwing up the system.
DavidAdamsAuthor@reddit
Neither is religion.
What happens when that money runs out?
CrankyOldGrinch@reddit
Then nothing? They're no longer screwing up the system.
Yodamort@reddit
"Wanting to abolish billionaires as a class is antisemitic because billionaires are Jewish" is certainly a take of all time
Being antisemitic to own the supposed antisemites
Big brain
Sillyoldman88@reddit
You called them a Nazi, way to win bro! GG
DavidAdamsAuthor@reddit
I'm not exactly going to sit down and have an intellectual debate with people who want to kill 90% of the same people the Nazis killed for 90% of the same reason.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Your accusing everyone horrified at the genocide Israel is committing of antisemitism is pretty much what Brin did. It's not believable from him and it's not believable from you. I'd suggest you get a new set of talking points but, actually, don't. You make showing how vapid and substance-less Israeli talking points are really easy.
DavidAdamsAuthor@reddit
If you can explain to me how the OP's suggested plan would not result in disproportionately Jewish deaths I would love to hear it.
Otherwise, yeah. 90% of the same people for 90% of the same reason.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Do you really think 90% of the richest people in the world are Jewish? What drugs have you been inhaling?
DavidAdamsAuthor@reddit
It's okay, it's not 90%. I checked!
The global Jewish population is approximately 15-16 million people, which is about 0.2% of the world's population.
The total number of billionaires on the 2023 Forbes list was 2,640. Roughly 260-400 of them are estimated to be Jewish.
Like I said: the killings would be disproportionately Jewish (10%-15%, max 20% for 0.2% of the population), and they would be done for much the same reasons as the Nazis ("hoarding wealth", "parasite class" and so on).
Of course, the Holocaust wasn't 100% Jews either. 6 million Jewish victims / 11 million total victims ≈ 54.5%.
So it's okay, you're not quite as disportionate as the Nazis, even if you are quite disproportionate.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Why do you hate white people so much? The numbers are disproportionately white, and you didn't mention that once. I was hoping you would but I was disappointed. Another anti-white rant.
lewkiamurfarther@reddit
Shamelessly inventing an antisemitic sentiment in a thread below a post about shamelessly invented antisemitic sentiment. Well done.
DavidAdamsAuthor@reddit
If you want to talk antisemitism...
The global Jewish population is approximately 15-16 million people, which is about 0.2% of the world's population.
The total number of billionaires on the 2023 Forbes list was 2,640. Roughly 260-400 of them are estimated to be Jewish.
Like I said: the killings would be disproportionately Jewish (10%-15%, max 20% for 0.2% of the population), and they would be done for much the same reasons as the Nazis ("hoarding wealth", "parasite class" and so on).
Of course, the Holocaust wasn't 100% Jews either. 6 million Jewish victims / 11 million total victims ≈ 54.5%.
So it's okay, you're not quite as disportionate as the Nazis, even if you are quite disproportionate.
lewkiamurfarther@reddit
You don't find it just too ironic that you've made this comment beneath this particular post? They're literally talking about billionaires. How much Kool-Aid did you drink, to become so transparently and uselessly unscrupulous?
DavidAdamsAuthor@reddit
If you can explain to me how killing all the bankers won't disproportionately kill Jews for much the same reasons as the Nazis killed them, I'd love to hear that explanation.
So far everyone who's tried to answer it has simply talked about how good it would be.
GameDoesntStop@reddit
These types genuinely can't comprehend that others aren't ghouls like them, and maybe, just, maybe, you jabe principles.
DavidAdamsAuthor@reddit
Yup.
Communists are a tiny fraction of the left, and the left lost the last election.
They have no popular support and just seethe online, comforting each other with mass-murder fantasies that will never come true.
They were all cumming buckets about the idea that Luigi might "spark off a movement and then when the killing finally probably stops, communism" but it's been like a year and there hasn't even been a single copycat.
They are 100% all talk.
lewkiamurfarther@reddit
See? You ooze bad faith. Your motivation has nothing to do with antisemitism, and everything to do with your anti-human politics.
DavidAdamsAuthor@reddit
"anti-human politics"
"WE SHOULD FUCKING JUST START PUTTING PEOPLE AGAINST THE WALL"
:|
Incidentally, I looked it up. The global Jewish population is approximately 15-16 million people, which is about 0.2% of the world's population.
The total number of billionaires on the 2023 Forbes list was 2,640. Roughly 260-400 of them are estimated to be Jewish.
Like I said: the killings would be disproportionately Jewish (10%-15%, max 20% for 0.2% of the population), and they would be done for much the same reasons as the Nazis ("hoarding wealth", "parasite class" and so on).
Of course, the Holocaust wasn't 100% Jews either. 6 million Jewish victims / 11 million total victims ≈ 54.5%.
So it's okay, you're not quite as disportionate as the Nazis, even if you are quite disproportionate.
SurturOfMuspelheim@reddit
Ultra rare reddit W. Ultra common redditor L for reporting it.
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
I hope you meant that last sentence figuratively.
SurturOfMuspelheim@reddit
It is literally not possible to be a billionaire and be a good person.
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
I am sure similar was said regarding millionaires in a not too distant past.
CrankyOldGrinch@reddit
Isn't that the point? Leaving millionaires unchecked led to the creation of billionaires. Leaving billionaires unchecked will undoubtedly lead to even more pronounced wealth disparity.
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
If we are going to possibly imply that an entire group of people are essentially "evil" or even possible targets for mob "justice", then you better not group any innocent people in there. And it looks like there may be around 58 million millionaires and 2,781 billionaires alive today.
CrankyOldGrinch@reddit
Brother, if their way of life is knowingly destroying my ability to live and provide for my family, you bet your bottom dollar I don't care about their well-being, because they've made it abundantly clear my survival doesn't matter to them, why should I care about theirs?
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
You do not need to care. You just need to avoid causing harm to the innocent or otherwise act in an unjust manner. And mob justice based on how much fiat money or other forms of wealth one has as determined by an imaginary line defining an "ok" from an "evil" level of wealth does not sound just to me.
CrankyOldGrinch@reddit
And while you wring your hands about the ethics, more children starve.
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
And while you apparently promote unethical "solutions", more children starve due in part to others' unethical "solutions".
CrankyOldGrinch@reddit
No, they don't, don't put words in my mouth we're talking about people whose insane wealth make it impossible for society to function normally.
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
So when is the line crossed from being an immoral person to a moral one? Is it from $999M to $1,000M? Or $998M to $999M? Or $997M to $998M?
And what if the person recently inherited their wealth? Or earned it in ways that contributed to society, and they plan to use their wealth to further contribute to society?
CrankyOldGrinch@reddit
They have to accept being taxed out of that wealth. End of story. I don't care about some self-aggrandised notion of knowing what's best for everyone. It's always unsustainable because it places society at the mercy of individuals who have 0 accountability.
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
Saying there should be additional taxes or that it's an issue is a world different than saying:
Or stating or implying that they should be murdered or subject to mob justice for non-crimes.
CrankyOldGrinch@reddit
Because we tried taxing them and in return, they created news channels to pit us against each other and tear the country apart. Donated millions to political parties that played the same game & militarised the police to make sure we stay in our place.
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
Again, you are grouping them together and demonizing them while apartly being ok with mob justice for them.
monkwrenv2@reddit
And it was accurate then, too.
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
And do you think that is still accurate today? And if not, when exactly did that change?
monkwrenv2@reddit
Have you heard on inflation? Billionaires today are the robber barons of yesteryear.
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
Do you think the following statement would be true today?
monkwrenv2@reddit
No, again, inflation.
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
Then when exactly did that statement change from true to not true?
If we are going to possibly imply that an entire group of people are essentially "evil" or even possible targets for mob "justice", then you better not group any innocent people in there. And it looks like there may be around 58 million millionaires and 2,781 billionaires alive today.
lewkiamurfarther@reddit
You're being obtuse. You cannot extract more wealth from the global financial system than the next 99% of humans without becoming guilty of starving a significant subset of those humans, at the very least. Artificial scarcity is an intentionally-pursued means of exercising control, not an accident of financial success.
I can't believe you'd even try to argue otherwise. What a tool.
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
So when is the line crossed from being an immoral person to a moral one? Is it from $999M to $1,000M? Or $998M to $999M? Or $997M to $998M?
And what if the person recently inherited their wealth? Or earned it in ways that contributed to society, and they plan to use their wealth to further contribute to society?
lewkiamurfarther@reddit
Inflation doesn't affect moral character.
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
So when is the line crossed from being an immoral person to a moral one? Is it from $999M to $1,000M? Or $998M to $999M? Or $997M to $998M?
The_Templar_Kormac@reddit
pathetic
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
Please explain.
Do you support vigilante or mob justice based on an imaginary line regarding fiat wealth possession or based on disagreeing with actions or inactions from elected officials?
The_Templar_Kormac@reddit
sorry I can't hear anything you're saying around that boot in your mouth
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
It's interesting that you refuse to answer the question or are trying to dodge it entirely.
The_Templar_Kormac@reddit
blah blah blah
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
Great talking to you. Way to defend your position and be an adult. Really has me convinced you're right.
AnnYup@reddit
those billionaires and politicians would brutally work you to death with no regard for your well-being if not for the thin rights shielding you (for how much longer?) that the working class gained through resistance against those same billionaires and politicans, often sacrificing their lives to gain these rights. Their profit and gains are more important to them than your humanity. You are not a human being in their eyes, you are a data point on a spreadsheet.
You can't be a good billionaire. Most politicians are complicit in this system and its injustices - things aren't the way they are by accident for the most part, they are this way by design.
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
I am sure similar was said regarding millionaires in a not too distant past.
And politicians often enact the will of the people. So your laat sentence could be said regarding most or many people in general.
lewkiamurfarther@reddit
“Won't someone think of the billionaires!?”
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
So when is the line crossed from being an immoral person to a moral one? Is it from $999M to $1,000M? Or $998M to $999M? Or $997M to $998M?
And what if the person recently inherited their wealth? Or earned it in ways that contributed to society, and they plan to use their wealth to further contribute to society?
lewkiamurfarther@reddit
Yeah? Do we need to seek Congressional approval to use strong language? Is it time to commission a study? Should there be a formal Parliamentary inquiry committee? Should we negotiate for 200 years over the right to express ourselves before we decide that billionaires are allowed to be called "scum"?
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
Billionaires and politicians are people, too.
Go ahead and try to change things. But don't promote unethical, unjust, or immoral "solutions".
TheHeroYouNeed247@reddit
I'm sure what he meant to say is that treasonous criminals should be brought to justice and given the maximum penalty.
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
Courts are one thing for sure. But I wouldn't encourage Luigi style "justice" which could be another interpretation of what was written.
Zer_@reddit
Now this is how you deal with fascists and oligarchs.
modianoyyo@reddit
hard to disagree with this
redelastic@reddit
With all due respect, just because it is now Jewish people committing a genocide does not shield anyone from criticism or somehow absolve Jewish people of their crimes against humanity.
It's a plain fact that the large tech companies have all profited from the Gaza genocide.
Google has profited. Microsoft has profited. Meta has profited.
Playing the antisemitic card is, as usual, ludicrous, cynical and meaningless.
Minimum_Guitar4305@reddit
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what." - Stephen Fry
lewkiamurfarther@reddit
Ironically, Stephen Fry has become a rabid right-wing genocide supporter.
Minimum_Guitar4305@reddit
Really, the Gay, life-long labour supporter, that's signed letters opposing celebrations of Israel's Birthday, who's signed letters Pro-Palestinian/Anti-Israel letters, called an article written by another Jewish person that accused Israel of ethnic cleansing "brilliant", and lamented Trump, Vance, Putin, and the AfD as the rise of Racism...has become a rabid right-wing genocide supporter?
I'm assuming your talking about how he, as a Jewish man, condemned anti-semitism?
lewkiamurfarther@reddit
Really.
Well, I am gay, so you can fuck right off with the suggestion that gay implies any particular political orientation.
Keir fucking Starmer is Labour, so again, this doesn't mean much.
Why Stephen Fry is arguing against political correctness, with Jordan Peterson
https://www.yahoo.com/news/stephen-fry-anti-semitism-left-183602491.html
Stephen Fry slammed for saying he no longer supports Stonewall: ‘Another celebrity disappointment’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5PR5S4xhXQ
X link: /soppystern/status/1869461018637705539
Stephen Fry on how the faults of the Left promoted the rise of the Right
Fry equated pro-Palestine demo to nazism. In ’08, he said Israel founded on terrorism
He's barely as Jewish as I am. He didn't just "condemn antisemitism," he condemned the left, and he condemned Palestinians and their supporters, and he played right along with the far-right in their anti-Palestinian fervor.
Nevermind the way he treated his former partner, which for me (again, as a gay man, which you so indelicately attempted to instrumentalize re Fry) was really the initial point of origin for my negative opinions of Fry. This has been going on for more than two decades. You just weren't paying attention, because it wasn't relevant to you.
Minimum_Guitar4305@reddit
Definitely, no, but yes it suggests so? Or are you ignorant of the fact that a majority of LGBTQ people on both sides of the Atlantic, across almost every study run, vote "left"?
Thanks for your sources, none of which indicate he's a "rabid right-wing genocide supporter", and for confirming your view is highly biased, and based on the fact he broke up with his ex...
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redelastic@reddit
Didn't he record a Christmas message in 2023 about antisemitism - while Gaza was already being destroyed.
Stephen Fry and David Baddiel feature in new documentary on life of Theodor Herzl, the ‘man behind Israel’.
Fine to call out antisemitism - but during a genocide? That is really centreing yourself.
lewkiamurfarther@reddit
You're right, but IMO, that doesn't even begin to cover it (at least not as far as I'm concerned).
EvidenceBasedSwamp@reddit
it's very telling that it's a distraction, starts acting like a victim and how you shouldn't call something genocide. they don't directly address nor deny they are providing assistance, yeah?
ThatHeckinFox@reddit
The victim card is expiring like milk left in the sun
kitti-kin@reddit
And to come out so strongly against the UN for criticising Israel, while his old friend Elon is disseminating actual extreme antisemitism... The priorities are so out of whack.
Stubbs94@reddit
I always find it hilarious how genocide supporters will go "anti Zionism is anti semitism" and then defend and support actual anti semites because they support Israel.
kremlinhelpdesk@reddit
Hey, calling Mecha-Hitler antisemitic is antisemitic.
elperuvian@reddit
Mecha hitler was stopped a few hours after he appeared.
lewkiamurfarther@reddit
~~A sentence that could only have been written in 2025~~ You know what—I take that back. This joke was probably made already sometime between 1995 and 2015, just as an example of how absurd the ADL or some other Israel lobbying group had become.
barc0debaby@reddit
Supporting Jews and opposing Israel is anti semitic.
Hating Jews and loving Israel is pro semitic.
redelastic@reddit
They are happy to blackmail and threaten the UN and its institutions but they still desperately need the legitimacy it confers on their settler colonial project.
dontneedaknow@reddit
I mean the source is a little island across the water from you.
-SneakySnake-@reddit
Zionism has anti-semitic roots, "send all the Jewish people over there" was quite logically very popular with anti-semitic people. A lot of people don't seem to know the history of it, but hint hint; it didn't become mainstream because of Jewish people.
hardolaf@reddit
The terrorists who formed Israel also tried, repeatedly, to have Hitler round up all of the European Jews and ship them to the Levant.
EH1987@reddit
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_antisemitism
arostrat@reddit
they keep argue about if technically "genocide". regardless what's happening there is crime against humanity.
I-Here-555@reddit
Next step: if it is technically genocide according to established definitions, it's not on the same scale as the Holocaust, so it's offensive and antisemitic to being it up.
redelastic@reddit
Yeah, exactly. Genocide is a legal term, it doesn't changes the crimes Israel has committed.
-SneakySnake-@reddit
Afrikaners used to do the same thing once upon a time.
cheeruphumanity@reddit
Yeah, that statement is vile.
Uncanny how many people actively support and enable Israel committing genocide.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Brin is full of it:
https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/
AI is being used to generate kill lists of people for Israel to murder. These lists contain not just militants but journalists, police officers, government workers, doctors, nurses, ambulance workers and many others erroneously listed. On top of that Israel uses these lists to drop massive bombs on people, killing not just the targets but their families, neighbours and friends. The callous disregard for human life is obvious. Yet Brin defends it, because Jews are doing the killing.
This could be Google or Microsoft or Amazon or Facebook or someone else. All the big tech companies are the same - greed above all else, people are disposable. I should add IBM to that list too. They have form supporting genocide, after all. They are all completely shit when it comes to human rights.
Exostrike@reddit
Or Israel believes all palestinians as the enemy and actively constructed Lavender to consider them as valid targets. Its a total blackbox so we have no idea.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
AI is hard. It's probably just a lucky break for them that it adds people who aren't Hamas to the list. And once they are on the list mass murdering everyone around them, decided by a system called "Where's Daddy,"is the icing on the cake for Israelis.
IAMADon@reddit
Developing an AI system to track potential militants until they arrive at home for the purpose of sending an air strike to kill them, their family, and others living nearby really shows how much effort they put into ~~avoiding civilian casualties~~ legitimising as many civilian casualties as possible.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
I find incredible how many Israelis out time and effort into defending the Israeli army’s presumed right to mass murder children and simply say “human shields” as if that excuses everything.
redelastic@reddit
I remember reading this and being terrified of Israel were now essentially using tech as a decision maker in the genocide while giving themselves a veil of deniability - and continually generating new targets.
This article got virtually no coverage in Western media even though it's from April 2024.
The other AI program they use called 'Where's Daddy?' to kill people when their entire families are home would send a shiver down any normal human's spine.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
That is an Israeli favourite - that had no pushback whatsoever. It is telling that when it was done they never actually checked how many people are at home when they bombed them. 1? 10? 20? 50? Who cares, they are only Palestinians.
redelastic@reddit
It's vile beyond belief.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Yes. Yes, it is. And still Israelis think it's fine and say things like "collateral damage!" like it excuses mass-murdering children.
redelastic@reddit
They borrowed that Orwellian phrase from their American benefactors.
imunfair@reddit
Basically a real life version of Project Insight from the Avengers movies, where the plan was for the Helicarriers to kill 20 million people from all walks of life, for the "safety and security" of the world.
PandaCheese2016@reddit
Ok, instead of genocide let’s call it “indiscriminate killing of a poverty-stricken captive population and destruction of their homeland in ridiculously disproportionate military response to terrorism stemming from decades of blood feud that has no chance of ending because its continuity is politically expedient to various leaders on both sides.” Is that better for you, Sergey?
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
The AI summary Google now provides alongside their search results is almost entirely worthless for me and I try to not even look at it most of the time now because it is unreliable based on my own experience with it. How they expect to use that or similar tech ethically within warfare is beyond me.
sarcasmusex@reddit
You can google " xzy - AI" and you won't get the AI results
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
I took a quick look a few weeks ago and couldn't find an easy way to turn off the feature. I didn't look closely though and just took another look and it looks like typing in cuss words or "-ai" within your search is what is recommended, which is ridiculous.
The_edref@reddit
If you are on a browser where you can have ublock origin this worked for me
https://www.reddit.com/r/uBlockOrigin/comments/1ct5mpt/heres_how_to_disable_googles_new_forced_ai/
new_name_who_dis_@reddit
I am always a bit confused by complaints like this. You are not forced to read the AI summary, you can just scroll down like a quarter of the page to get the same search results you were getting before they added this feature. Is that like too much of an inconvenience?
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
It is a minor inconvenience. But there is also a massive amount of resources and energy put into AI and AI processing which I would like to avoid contributing to, especially if I am entirely uninterested in the feature.
new_name_who_dis_@reddit
That stuff is generally cached, it’s not calling a model every time you do a search.
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
Regardless, I am not interested in the feature and would like to avoid the minor inconvenience and contributing to resources or energy spent to produce something I do not want.
EvidenceBasedSwamp@reddit
Maybe the same way companies use consultant firms - to justify the decisions you were going to do anyway but pretend it's an impartial third party making the choices
NotStompy@reddit
Well, it's not the same but I do agree that it shouldn't be used in warfare in it's current state, obviously.
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
It looks like Israel has been using "AI tools" since the start of the war, which could be contributing to the deaths of civilians depending on how it's being used (i.e. if being used to identify threats).
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2025/02/04/google-ai-policies-weapons-harm/
lewkiamurfarther@reddit
Citations Needed, Episode 217: "A.I. Mysticism as Responsibility-Evasion PR Tactic"
NEEEEEEEEEEEET@reddit
They are only using it for facial recognition and object recognition. Both of those are very solid. Some examples of facial recognition that don't have the resources of google: [1] [2]
brassmonkey666@reddit
The contract for Project Nimbus is pretty open to what Israel can do with the services provided by Google and Amazon, they are also exempt from any ethical restrictions these companies may have.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Israel is exempt from any ethical restrictions anyone has...
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
What makes you think they "are very solid"? I also have experience with AI object recognition and found it to be unreliable.
NEEEEEEEEEEEET@reddit
What experience do you have with it exactly?
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
From surveillance systems.
NEEEEEEEEEEEET@reddit
Yea and which one are you talking about exactly? Yolo had decent object recognition 4 years ago. That was made by 4 people which again doesn't have Google's resources behind it.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Define decent. What are the false positive false negative rates.
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
I don't know exactly and probably shouldn't mention exactly if I did for privacy reasons. But it is from a popular home surveillance company.
Effective_Jury4363@reddit
Um, they don't. Nobody uses generative AI in warfare today.
However- more traditional statistical or machine learning models, are used quite a lot- and they are reliable.
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
From a February 4, 2025 article:
...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2025/02/04/google-ai-policies-weapons-harm/
tsclac23@reddit
Even humans arent 100% reliable. That is why you have incidents of friendly fire, mistaken targeting etc. No current system is 100% reliable especially with fog of war present.
Also AI is a very broad term and is not the same as generative AI which is a small subset. So what you posted isnt contradicting what the other person said.
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
I have found both generative and non-generative AI to often be comically inaccurate.
BufferUnderpants@reddit
Non-generative AI is something so broad that you can hardly make statements about it
It’ll depend on the sensitivity and recall of the model, and each model can be entirely custom made
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
For sure. Just my own experience with it tells me not to trust it.
tsclac23@reddit
It's hard to judge the ethicality of it without knowing what it actually is, how it was tested and how it's being used in the field. It could be used to improve images, sifting through data, for better communication, for logistics and a whole host of other things. Theres a large gap between a camera that uses AI for better focusing and an autonomous terminator bot that kills anything on sight. Also I am talking about using AI in general during warfare. Whether google should sell AI to Israel for use in the present conflict is a separate question.
Effective_Jury4363@reddit
As you may have noticed- this does not show that genrerative AI is currently used for warfare.
sieberde@reddit
There are vastly different kinds of AI.
What everyone came to know as AI is just a small and pretty recent kind, namely large language models.
There are many many more AI algorithms and models that aren't based around language but are instead used for pattern recognition, image enhancement etc. They are usually used in industry and military.
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
My wife and I have found object recognition AI to be often comically inaccurate, based on our experience with home surveillance systems.
Perhaps there are cases where it is nearly perfect or much more reliable than a person, but that hasn't been my experience.
sieberde@reddit
There are. Purpose built systems can achieve extremely high hit rates.
One of my professors has implemented a system that can detect defective parts in a production line with over 99.9% accuracy.
Whats even more bonkers is the fact that it used some 300 training images and was coded and trained over a weekend on his laptop.
Now imagine what can be achieved on high end accelerators with virtually unlimited military budgets and a very loose interpretation of the law.
redelastic@reddit
If you are interested in the AI that Israel is using, this article provides a good insight:
https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/
Sability@reddit
Oh we both know that was never the intent.
adeveloper2@reddit
The inconvenient observation to point out is that a lot of tech billionaires are very pro-Israel likely because they have strong religious and ethnic affiliations. Whenever a big name is incredibly pro-Israel, just look up his Wikipedia page and it'd make sense.
It's be similar to reading up Peter Thiel and Elon Musk's background and one'd be like "oh" when it comes to understanding their political beliefs.
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
Based on what I have seen, Israel or Israelis also often try to support those who support Israel or other Israelis in a variety of ways, including politically, legally, and financially.
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