[Israel] Smotrich urges continued fight in Gaza, no pullback from conquered territory, and calls on Netanyahu and IDF Chief to immediately halt aid to the Gaza Strip and “encircle the combat zones” in order to “exhaust the enemy within them before they encounter our heroic fighters.”
Posted by Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 37 comments
Adiv_Kedar2@reddit
Buddy you're polling at literally 0 seats next election. Good Lord just shut up and resign already the only support that exists is the extremists elements of the settlers. And even then they are abandoning Otzma Yehudah
DanDan1993@reddit
The level of disconnection from reality Smotrich is showing is just... Disturbing. His recent interview about him about to resign and talked down by his dad is just tragic in how we are controlled by moronic zealots who don't cave to reason.
Can't wait to see his face when he doesn't pass the threshold next elections
combrade@reddit
So I appreciate your bravery participating in this subreddit.
My question is who actually is influencing military decisions right now ? Smotrich is in charge of finance and obsessed with funding settlements. Ben Gvir is internal security(basically Homeland security) and I know he’s given weapons to Settlers that was sent as military aid from America .
But day to day who is actually making decisions . IDF Chief of Staff Eyal Zamir said last week they aren’t interested in forced expulsion while Katz today told journalists they would create ghetto areas for Palestinians.
Are the inmates actually running the asylum? I feel like the IDF chiefs due to their military experience are a bit more measured which is why Yair Netanyahu and others think IDF is too soft . Any military strategist knows holding Gaza and confining people isn’t worth the trouble.
I feel this isn’t even equivalent to the chaos of Trump administration because his cabinet are picked cause they’re the best sycophants. If Trump said tommorow river to sea, they’d fall in line . In contrast, Bibi’s cabinet seems controlled by the far right . It’s why Gallant and Gantz all resigned . Bibi extended this war just to get Gvir back in his coalition .
FudgeAtron@reddit
Because if you read the Haaretz article from last week it seems the upper officer corps have somewhat lost total control over mid-level ground commanders who seem to be just ordering shootings without reason, even if the higher command told them not to.
This is the inherent problem of conscript forces, the longer you spend at war the harder it is to maintain discipline.
waiver@reddit
"Told them not to" but they don't punish them nor remove them from their positions, which shows endorsement of their actions.
FudgeAtron@reddit
Yes that's one of the well understood issues with conscript armies, there's a reason most of the West got rid of them.
When your army relies on having a large amount of part-time soldiers which requires mobilising most of your available manpower, it becomes very hard to not call anyone back.
In the West, when you fire people for disobeying orders, you can replace them with another volunteer soldier. When a conscript disobeys and you fire them, you're removing someone from the total manpower pool. This leads to a culture of reassigning problematic soldiers, used to be if you weren't trusted in the West Bank they'd send you to the Gaza Division or Golan Division because you weren't likely to encounter civilians, October 7 changed all that.
It can get even worse than that because if you fire a popular commander, his subordinates may refuse to come back if they feel he was fired unfairly. Remember all the reservists volunteer their time, they aren't paid to fight this war. Most Israeli soldiers aren't being paid to fight the war. On top of all of that most reservists are seasoned veterans often with decades of experience.
Imagine the backlash the army would receive if it fired a popular commander in an important unit and as a result the next time that unit just doesn't show up. Yeah the army can prosecute you for desertion, sure, but that's the same problem. Deserters are permanently removed from the manpower pool.
Again this is part of why massive conscript forces disappeared across the West. Conscripts are much harder to control and they tend to have significantly more power over the army than the reverse.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Unless you're planning on cashiering or jailing tens of thousands of soldiers, I don't think manpower concerns are a legitimate reason to excuse war crimes.
And if you have that many soldiers who could concievably be impacted, you have another, larger problem.
FudgeAtron@reddit
It's not the numbers it's the experience. If you have a unit of veterans suddenly disappear it's a problem.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
They're conscripts, they're by definition less experienced than the putative professional soldiers a volunteer army would have to replace. It should be easier to replace them, not harder
FudgeAtron@reddit
Conscripts in Israel are all reservists, i.e. veterans who are called back, not untrained manpower like Russia per se.
So for example Israel's air force is largely composed of conscripts. They have day jobs. They fly hours in the jet on the weekend. Israel's special forces are also mostly conscripts.
When you get called in at 18 you get trained to do the job of a professional soldier but you stop being a full time soldier and instead become a part time soldier who's only called up during war and goes for training a few times a year. You can be called up until age 45 (I think?).
That's why they're harder to replace, they spend years fighting and become quite good at it, so firing them loses you important manpower.
Many of them also know that, so they know when they threaten not to come back it's effective.
DanDan1993@reddit
Depends on what you call military decisions. on the micro level? I think the upper IDF command has loosen protocols on the RoE. It's both on purpose, but most of it is just losing control over a conscript army who is exhausted and tired, and at the same time has a pretty decent chunck of over-motivated zealots who don't mind breaking RoE because they know they have the "popular" support. well, not the majority, but If i had to guess I'd say \~40% of Israeli believe not a single soldier should be detained or questioned for war crimes. this is a varying levels of how much people want to protect IDF soldiers, but at the same time don't want them to commit warcrimes... there's some weird balance between that's hard to explain for me in shorten, and a bit in english right now. thing is we have too much fanatics who thinks IDF soldiers are Mother Teresa who never commits warcrimes nor act unprofessionally, and if they did then they acted in a justified way... and its a powder keg.
for a decent long time both Smothrich and Ben Gvir were actually compartmentalized from decision making, up until the slogfest began and the war of "must keep my coalition alive" started, and the defensive part of the war ended.
Regarding the clashes between Zamir and coalition; it was inevitable... any sane general would slowly understand the tasks the war cabinet is giving the army are unreasonable, underfunded, understaffed and political motivated to stir the pot more, and to keep track of the voter base to show them "we actually want to do something, BUT the army is refusing\bad\not cooperating etc"... for all i think, Smothrich and Bengvir think war is a jamas bond movie and think you can carpet bomb everything including underground areas, and rubble created after bombing... after all, rubble is the worst enemy of urban warfare, creating even more spots Hamas members could hide (which we seen just yesterday, when a driver was ambushed and killed by hiding members of hamas). they have zero idea how warfare is conducted and would probably argue its videogames level of what IDF should do.
I always told my wife trump's cabinet scares me most. they are the (same same but different) same zealots and fascists as my government, but they came to fucking work and to spread their policies... our politicians are rather tame and shackled by incompetency and decent opposition.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Smotrich, Ben Gvir and the others still have influence and there’s a lot of theatrics around the narrative that “they are forcing Netanyahu to continue the war” that some push. The truth is that Netanyahu, Ben Gvir and Smotrich are ideological bedfellows who are united in the desire to mass murder and genocide Palestinians and expand Israel. Netanyahu is glad they are in his government. Any opposition seems to be entirely for the benefit of western leaders who balk at supporting genocide that is too open. Netanyahu just looks slightly moderate compared to Smotrich and Ben Gvir as he doesn’t foam at the mouth as much.
sllammallamma@reddit
Americans are paying for Israel's bs, which is the best use of taxpayer dollars. but hey, at least now Americans don't have to worry about surviving floods right?
https://archive.ph/vOCZw
"New Documents Reveal: U.S. Pouring Hundreds of Millions of Dollars in Military Aid Into Building IDF Airbases and Facilities in Israel"
"Israel receives $3.8 billion annually in U.S. foreign aid under a memorandum of understanding signed with the Obama administration, covering the period from 2019 to 2028. The war in Gaza has triggered an unprecedented surge in supplemental assistance, and according to Brown University's Cost of War project, the United States had provided Israel with an additional $18 billion in arms by September 2024. In January of this year, the U.S. House of Representatives approved a special military aid package worth $26 billion, which included approximately $4 billion for interceptors for Israel's missile defense systems.
Criticism of U.S. security assistance to Israel is mounting on both the American right and left. Although the IDF uses the aid to buy weapons from U.S. manufacturers – supporting American jobs – more and more politicians argue it is time to either end the assistance or use it as leverage over Israel.
In April, while hosting Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at the White House, President Donald Trump addressed the issue, saying: "Don't forget, we help Israel a lot. We give Israel $4 billion a year. That's a lot… But we take care of our friends," he told Netanyahu.
Since the projects are funded through U.S. military aid, only American companies are eligible to bid as primary contractors. However, most of the work on the ground is ultimately performed by Israeli subcontractors."
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
Sounds to me like a recipe for ethnic cleansing or genocide.
Amd sounds rich considering Israel supported Hamas in the first place and is now supporting the Popular Forces.
Upper_Conversation_9@reddit
Do these people realize that this will be remembered for a very long time?
Theteacupman@reddit
Zionists don't even know that Netanyahu effectively built the foundations and funded Hamas for decades. And even if you mention it to them you a called a lier
indacouchsixD9@reddit
What they say specifically is that Hamas wasn't a militarized, hostile organization back then, rather more of a charitable organization helping out Gazans, and Israel cut funding once they became hostile.
AmarantaRWS@reddit
They, like many of the people who do such things, do not believe they will ever be brought to reconning.
BufferUnderpants@reddit
They expect it to be remembered like the Armenian genocide is: with no consequence to them
redridingoops@reddit
How dare you remember wrong, you antisemite, Israel is full of heroic fighters and their heroic fighter jets and their heroic bombs along with their heroic land-conquest !!!
They will simply try to rewrite history and make sure those who say otherwise are prosecuted or silenced somehow. The US will play along, as usual...
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
It sure doesn't seem like it.
I think many may be blinded by their religion or their interpretation of religious texts.
mattyandco@reddit
Always has been. I mean just considering the polices choices they've taken so far with the evacuation orders. If they actually cared about reducing civilian casualties and only targeting militants they would have set up some zone where innocent civilians could move to over a year and a half ago. Not be subject to attacks and receive the aid everyone but the Israelis are trying to get them. Pass though some sort of check for the Israelis to verify that the individual isn't a part of Hamas even if that only means taking the women, young children and elderly. Expand that as they move though. It would even make things easier for the Israelis as well, fewer people to have to check as they moved forward, less area to manage with their soldiers, less complaints about the humanitarian crises they create and so on.
That they didn't do this is only proof that they either want to kill them all or drive them out though violence and deprivation. And ethnic cleansing is explicitly a part of the plan with the just proposed 'humanitarian zone', straight from the mouth of the defence minister.
moonorplanet@reddit
Also this is not some random quack politician, he is the Minister of Finance.
appealouterhaven@reddit
So our choices at the moment are a pilot concentration camp for 600,000 that will be built during the "ceasefire" and straight up starving the entire strip? Imagine dedicating decades of international diplomacy to creating an international rules based order, only to completely throw it away for your petulant ally because they are committing genocide.
dova_kinn@reddit
'international rules based order' is only for the white men or women not for brown ones. global south really needs to come together on this but sadly that will never be allowed to happen.
AmarantaRWS@reddit
I still dream that pan-africanism will finally take off as a result of this. Big ups to Ibrahim Traore.
TearOpenTheVault@reddit
The global south is not a single homogenous entity capable of working together. It’s a collection of disadvantaged states with often wildly contradictory desires and motives.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
It’s not a choice between one and the other option. Israel is hoping to do both.
Onuus@reddit
Everything we do is heroic, with all of equipment being used by hero’s and don’t you question because you’re just an antisemite.
Did I get that right?
eVelectonvolt@reddit
Israel’s finance minister who their own intelligence service deemed too militant to serve in their military and was alleged to be involved an attempted terrorist threat to their own state. What a great CV.
He’s a religious extremist and fanatic who if he was born in a parallel universe would probably be born an Islamist Terrorist.
shugthedug3@reddit
More war crimes then.
Have noticed Israeli press are being quite upfront about it now given there's apparently no consequences, western governments all deciding to just keep quiet.
EH1987@reddit
This guy is such a bloodthirsty genocidal freak that he cannot even accept the faintest hint at even hiding the genocide but demands full unequivocal support for it. Should be easy to put him in the Hague when the time comes.
Must be hell to be a supporter of the zionist project from the outside while you have this psycho openly demanding no halt to the carnage.
party_core_@reddit
genocidal freak says unhinged shite
must be a day that ends in -y
somebody tell smotrich that plague inc. exists, maybe it'll give him a less harmful outlet for all that bloodlust
Tangentkoala@reddit
Had no idea its impossible to mergr fortnite and a concentration camp together. But damn here we are.
Israel wants to starve and box in human beings. Treating them like animals in hopes they retaliate so they can show the world that they are "animals" and be back on the morale side of the world.
But man, that's such a disgusting tactic to do. It's going to lead to a lot more bloodshed.
Private_HughMan@reddit
They learned it from somewhere.
Private_HughMan@reddit
"Heroic" is an... interesting way to describe them. Not the word I would choose.
Is this a translation thing? Does "genocidal Jewish version of the Wermacht" translate into "heroic" in Hebrew?
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