Hamas used sexual violence as part of 'genocidal strategy', Israeli experts say

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shieeet@reddit

Sigh. Here we go again. This new Dinah Project is literally using the same "evidence" already debunked countless times already. It's just the same repackaged horseshit. I could go over every piece of "evidence" individually and literally debunk it one by one, but it's already been done to death a million times, so I'll just copy my previous comment from whenever the Hasbara start spreading this age old propaganda again:

There is no evidence for any mass rape event during October 7th. No pictures, no videos, no forensic evidence from rapekits or any semen samples from either survivors or corpses in the morgues, no named victims - alive or dead.

The most cited third party is the UN report from march 4th 2024, which is very odd as even though stating it has grounds to believe sexual assault happened during 7th of October, they they also state that they reviewed over 5000 photographs, 50 hours of video footage, had free access to Israeli morgues, and yet didn't find a single photo sexual violence, any forensic evidence of sexual violence, or a single first hand survivor of sexual assault. This is, of course, quite telling as there are surveillance cameras everywhere in Israel, not to mention dash cams, Hamas's own recovered recordings and/or everyone's cellphones. Additionally, this is reaffirmed in the UNHCRs follow up report "Detailed findings on attacks carried out on and after 7 October 2023 in Israel" from June 10 2024 (page 27) where after over 6 months of investigation the UN specifically states:

The Commission has reviewed testimonies obtained by journalists and the Israeli police concerning rape but has not been able to independently verify such allegations, due to a lack of access to victims, witnesses and crime sites and the obstruction of its investigations by the Israeli authorities. The Commission was unable to review the unedited version of such testimonies. For the same reasons, the Commission was also unable to verify reports of sexualized torture and genital mutilation. Additionally, the Commission found some specific allegations to be false, inaccurate or contradictory with other evidence or statements and discounted these from its assessment.

The statements above precisely the reason the UN still refuses to put Hamas on the black list of groups who are suspected of having committed sexual violence during a conflict. And please, before anyone refers to any of those awful sources on that Wikipedia page or that completely disgraced Dec 28 2023 New York Times article, know that they are based on proven lies and have been thoroughly debunked. The only current first hand account of any sexual misconduct is from Amit Soussana and but this undescribed sexual act was during captivity, months after October 7th.

As anyone who has studied the subject matter would know, in actual mass rape events as in for example the Rwandan genocide or the Yugoslav civil war there are countless amounts of physical evidence gathered, in addition to first hand accounts which then processed regardless if there are identified perpetrators of the act. If anything, by now it is clear that any conceivable sexual misconduct would during the 7th of October would be a rare and isolated occurrence. But the narrative of "Mass rapes during October 7th" - that has been so aggressively pushed (or projected) by the Israeli state - lacks evidence to the extent that it can be disregarded as a fabricated hoax.

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

So eyewitness testimonies aren't evidence?

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shieeet@reddit

No, not when the few dubious secondhand witness accounts can't point out who was raped or where, and no investigations built on these supposed accounts have found any evidence, either on bodies or at the alleged scenes that corroborates any of these stories. "Trust me bruh, it totally happened" is not evidence if it cannot be backed up by forensics.

To further showcase this sham, both the disgraceful "Screams Before Silence" report and this "new" Dinah Project both rely on the clearly dubious accounts of Raz Cohen (a former IDF security contractor lmao) and Shoam Gueta (his best friend). Neither of whom mentioned any rapes whatsoever in their initial interviews, but oddly enough kept changing their stories over and over until they were included in the awful NYC piece. Interestingly, they also took several photos and videos during the Nova Festival attacks, none of which suggest any sexual violence took place, of course. What there is plenty of from both, however, is a ton of self-promotion for their clothing brand, in which they've alluded to the Oct 7 attacks as part of their rebrand.

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

not when the few dubious secondhand witness accounts can't point out who was raped or where

Except they can. Did you read the report? They gave time and locations.

no investigations built on these supposed accounts have found any evidence

What would you consider to be evidence?

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shieeet@reddit

I've read almost all the reports, both from the Israeli media and from the various UN reports floating around since. The very few accounts that alluded to a time or place were obviously followed up by forensic teams, which found no forensic evidence of any rapes, either on the bodies or in the surrounding areas.

I know you aren't serious in this whatsoever and you are obviosuly arguing in bad faith, so i am not going to entertain your little epistemological back-and-fourth of the meaning of "evidence", but regardless just because I say I definitely saw u/McAlpineFusiliers rape someone today in my local park at 11:42 does not make this true.

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

The very few accounts that alluded to a time or place were obviously followed up by forensic teams, which found no forensic evidence of any rapes, either on the bodies or in the surrounding areas.

Source for this claim?

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shieeet@reddit

Source for what exactly? That the Israeli forensic teams thoroughly investigated all the scenes of the October 7th attacks, or that after 2.5 years of searching found no forensic evidence of any rapes what so ever?

Again, the literal The UN Office of the SRSG-SVC March 4, 2024 that is mentioned in this "Dinah Project", literally states

"Israeli forensic teams documented and examined bodies, sites, and conducted autopsies to collect evidence of sexual violence. They compiled extensive photographic and video evidence—over 5,000 photographs and more than 50 hours of footage—used for analysis."

The later report from the UNHCR that after six months of investigation reaffirms the first report, again finding zero evidence of any mass rapes. They investigated everything they had, desperate to find evidence of a mass rape event and after going trough all that material they found 15 unreliable witnesses, whereof only a handful expressed they witnessed rape.

Even one of Israel's top prosecutors admitted that they could not find any evidence or witnesses concerning mass rapes and sexual violence on October 7th to proceed with any legal action.

Again, you are clearly acting in bad faith, not engaging with any of the evidence and instead just shooting off non-sequitur derailment questions, but I assure you, i enjoy this kind of stuff and I can go on all day.

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DanDan1993@reddit

Why are you spreading disinformation? At no point in that interview did she say the things you said.

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shieeet@reddit

The biggest difficulty is evidentiary, explains Gas. Using evidence to link a specific crime to a specific defendant when dealing with dozens of crime scenes, where hundreds of suspects were caught and thousands of offenses were committed, is almost impossible. "The usual laws of evidence are not suitable for this event. There are no organized chains of evidence, there is no one who filmed the videos you want to present in court.

Oh I'm sorry! It's actually - "there was so much crimes going on it's impossible to prove in court"👍

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DanDan1993@reddit

I'm sorry but is she saying here "we have no evidence at all, no sexual assault and rapes had occurred on 7th of October at all" like you claimed in your first message?

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shieeet@reddit

What I'm seeing is the head prosecutor in Israel, who is supposedly looking to prosecute any crimes during the October 7 attacks, not presenting a shred of evidence or opening a case for a single rape from October 7.

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DanDan1993@reddit

Did you read the rest of the article? It has answers for your questions there.... Like why not a single terrorist was prosecuted to not further derail negotiations?

Did you read the article? Use Google translate? Just found someone saying this is what the article is mentioning so you're passing it along?

Also why did you not answer my previous question? Did she say no rape occurred like your first comment is saying?

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shieeet@reddit

You mean the part where this psycho bitch is complaining that she wants to summarily murder everyone crossed over a fence, but can't because "the law" won't allow it? Or that she is taking testimonies from ZAKA at face value? Regardless, it's the part where she says:

"Unfortunately, it will be very difficult to prove these offenses," she says. "In the end, we have no complainants. What was presented in the media compared to what will ultimately emerge will be completely different. Either because the victims were murdered, or because the women who raped them are not prepared to reveal it. We contacted women's rights organizations and asked for cooperation. They told us that they simply did not contact them. There were parents who contacted the organizations and asked what to do if something happened to their daughter, but they did not disclose the abuse. "In this matter, I would lower expectations. I know there is public expectation and understand the need to address the horrific sexual crimes and sexual assaults that have been committed, but the vast majority of them will not be able to meet the threshold of proof in court, and the criticism will ultimately come to the prosecutor's office - unjustly

She clearly has no proof, either forensic or any first-hand witnesses. And to cover this up, this sicko is wildly speculating (i.e. entirely making it up) that the reason is because "they're dead or not prepared to reveal it." Absurd.

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DanDan1993@reddit

nothing screams "I'm right" more then name calling. pinnacle of maturity.

have you noticed how far you've gone from "no rape happened" to "they're dead or not prepared to reveal it"? why are you spreading disinformation by saying stuff she didn't say, and it's your own interpretation? nice goal shifting.

Since we all love Haaretz for their anti-zionism, Is this report fake news? how about our beloved United Nations, AKA the useless UN? how about all the eye witness testimony which we all took for granted during the GHF shooting to say Israel shoots Palestinians, but here they are... denied because fuck eye witnesses am i right?

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shieeet@reddit

have you noticed how far you've gone from "no rape happened" to "they're dead or not prepared to reveal it"? why are you spreading disinformation by saying stuff she didn't say, and it's your own interpretation? nice goal shifting.

First, practice your reading comprehension or use machine translation, because what I've said is that no evidence of any rapes has been presented (which Moran Gaz clearly admits in the last quote that she can't produce in court, and you seem to be denying, oddly), and it's Moran Gaz who suggests that it's only because "they're dead or not prepared to reveal it." Your supposed goals are stationary.

Secondly, the Haaretz article is just repeating the same garbage as the Dinah project and literally even mentions them by name. The UN memo is based of the UN report from march 4th 2024 and as mentioned already a million times, litterally states that they reviewed over 5000 photographs, 50 hours of video footage, had free access to Israeli morgues, and yet didn't find a single photo sexual violence, any forensic evidence of sexual violence, or a single first hand survivor of sexual assault.

And regarding your random mention of the GHF shootings, nothing screams "I can't make an argument" more than randomly interjecting some completely unrelated whataboutist anecdote.

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DanDan1993@reddit

"Source for what exactly? That the Israeli forensic teams thoroughly investigated all the scenes of the October 7th attacks, or that after 2.5 years of searching found no forensic evidence of any rapes what so ever?

Even one of Israel's top prosecutors admitted that they could not find any evidence or witnesses concerning mass rapes and sexual violence on October 7th to proceed with any legal action"

These your quotes bubba? You claimed yourself there's no forensic evidence for ANY rape, no evidence or eye witnesses for sexual violence... Do I need a machine translation (which obviously does a horrible job given your lack of understanding a Hebrew article) to translate those to understand? These are your quotes... "No forensic evidence for ANY rape", "...could not find evidence or eye witnesses... AND sexual violence".

Also you failing to understand the similarities between two events where only eye witnesses are the evidence to resort to fallacies is truly amazing. I didn't even ask whatabout it, just placed you a mirror where you'll take any unreliable witness or eye testimony because "hur dur Israel bad", while here you'll say eye testimony is inventing a hoax. You being an hypocrite isn't whataboutism :)

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shieeet@reddit

What? You are quoting me but and your syntax is so horrendus everything you type is almost indecipherable wordsallad, but i'll try to do a generous interpretation.

Yes, there is no forensic evidence of any rapes during the October 7th attacks. No pictures, no videos, no forensic evidence from rapekits or any semen samples from either survivors or corpses in the morgues, no named victims - alive or dead. This is a fact.
Yes, there are no first hand witnesses that claim they themselfs were raped during October 7th attacks. This is a fact.
Yes, Moran Gaz admits in that quote above that she has not procecuted anyone for any rapes during october 7th and that the main reason for this her offices is not able to meet the threshold of proof in court. This is a fact.

But please, bring up some random whataboutism concerning the GHF shootings again 💁‍♂️

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DanDan1993@reddit

you keep quoting her saying "the VAST MAJORITY of them will not be able to meet the threshold of proof". Noticed you ignored this point? if she says the vast majority, does that mean some are going to meet the threshold of proof? does that mean there are evidence for these events? but you said there aren't, even though you are using a quote that pretty much implies there are! :( Is this dude a liar like you are?

yes, there are no first-hand witnesses who came forward (your source says so). that doesn't mean there aren't any of them (the source says there are). you bolding "this is a fact" is a kin to a seven year old who think if he says "i'm right just because" that'll make him right.

Also no, she said the main reason was that not a single terrorist was prosecuted as of yet because the law has trouble to do a differentiation between looters, terrorists, sexual predators and all the other crimes committed on the seven of October.

Also no, this isn't whataboutism because you are saying now eye witnesses aren't reliable, but I'm sure as hell you'll take any eye witness who claimed a tank shot at them at the GHF center even though there's zero "forensic evidence" of that. You can't dismiss eye witness based on bias and whim, and take another eye witness for granted at another event with different people. that's called being a hypocrite bigot. :)

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shieeet@reddit

you keep quoting her saying "the VAST MAJORITY of them will not be able to meet the threshold of proof". Noticed you ignored this point? if she says the vast majority, does that mean some are going to meet the threshold of proof? does that mean there are evidence for these events? but you said there aren't, even though you are using a quote that pretty much implies there are! :( Is this dude a liar like you are?

yes, there are no first-hand witnesses who came forward (your source says so). that doesn't mean there aren't any of them (the source says there are). you bolding "this is a fact" is a kin to a seven year old who think if he says "i'm right just because" that'll make him right.

No, the reason I'm completely ignoring this is because she alludes to there being "some" mystical forensic evidence and first-account witnesses claiming to have been raped, yet not a single case of any of this has been presented in the last 2.5 years, which i've been saying all along. And until this supposed evidence actually gets presented or used in court, the entire point is moot because it might as well not exist whatsoever.

Also no, she said the main reason was that not a single terrorist was prosecuted as of yet because the law has trouble to do a differentiation between looters, terrorists, sexual predators and all the other crimes committed on the seven of October. so once again you are either lying or just using a bad "machine translator".

Absolute ridiculous and pathetic excuse, and it has nothing to do with any lack of evidence or first account victims of rape, whatsoever.

And the GHF argument is so stupid because regardless of who shot who, there are hundreds of shot corpses from the event that actually exist, while in comparison to the supposed "mass rape events of October 7th" there is still zero forensic evidence of any rapes and zero witnesses saying they were raped. It's such a bad comparison I should rail you for it even more, but from now on I won't even bother with your weak GHF whataboutism, as it clearly has nothing to do with this.

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DanDan1993@reddit

oh i'm sorry you haven't been CC'ed the morgue autopsy reports. I'll try and let them know to add you next time your buddies go on a killing spree.

are you that dense you deserve to see evidence before they are presented in ANY trial? you do know some of that information is personal medical information, and you want that released to satisfy your needs?

let me get this straight; say a body arrived in Abu-Kabir on the 7 of october. morgue finds clear signs of SA\rape, they share with the family. you think the family is going on a media-spree of "our daughter was raped, here's the papers to prove it!"? Who are they going to prosecute giving they have no idea who did it? what do you expect the family to do in this situation? go on reddit and satisfy a bigot? you think the morgue is going to release this information if someone on reddit claims they are lying, just to prove they aren't? walk me through it...

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shieeet@reddit

Okay, so now you just admit that yes, there has been zero forensic evidence of any rapes, zero witnesses saying they were raped presented, zero cases of october 7 cases presented or used in court,,as I have been saying all along, but as a counterargument you are now presenting some hypothetical that "such evidence surely may exist", but we just don't know about it because of reasons?

lmao get outta here 😄

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DanDan1993@reddit

Again, let me understand... you took a quote where she said "vast majority of cases..." and said to yourself "well, she said majority, i didn't see anything to contradict so she actually said that there are NONE because reasons", and you are thinking this is a fact now? am i getting this correct? the article clearly mentions why no one was prosecuted or presented in court and you are ignoring it saying its "ridiculous" and say that its because there are no evidence, even though it contradicts what she's saying in the article? help me to help you.

And again, why won't you walk me through? do you think the morgues in Israel are lying about SA\Rape evidence? what do you expect the families to do?

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shieeet@reddit

do you think the morgues in Israel are lying about SA\Rape evidence?

For the millioth time, there is zero forensic evidence presented of any rapes, zero witnesses saying they were raped presented, zero cases of october 7 cases presented or used in court. You seem to suggest that this has been prestented, somewhere, but it hasn't. Case closed.

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DanDan1993@reddit

Head of Abu Kabir said so. is he lying?

Again, why did you refuse to acknowledge you misinterpreted her words and twisted them for your bias? She claimed why there are no trials (you didn't like the answer so you ignore it), you claim lack of trials indicate lack of evidence even though she claims there are evidence. You are twisting her words.

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shieeet@reddit

Hahahaha Dr Chen Kugel 🤣🤣??? Not only did he notoriously help spread the beheaded babies lie, but in the article you link he literally says:

there were injuries to their genitals and there was no way to extract forensic evidence

That is your one and only source? An already discredited liar who literally says he could not find any forensic evidence of rape?? Please go on, this is just hilarious 🙏

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DanDan1993@reddit

"although he could not say for certain whether they had been beheaded" from your source......

So it went like this; You: "no morgue reported any SA/rape evidence"

Also you: "NO, NOT THAT MORGUE"

hilarious.

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shieeet@reddit

Well I'm certainly laughing 😂! Your only source is a vague conman who, again, literally said that he could not extract forensic evidence of rape.

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DanDan1993@reddit

Due to burnings, yes... He also said it after saying there were numerous bodies with genitals being damaged and not by the fire. You do realize your using one quote about him talking about burned corpses and generalizing it to all the work Abu Kabir has done?

How biased are you to not see you are shifting goal posts, reinventing your reality (like you making up he supported the beheaded babies) to fit your opinions because the real reality doesn't match the non sense you're typing

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shieeet@reddit

Again, can't you read?? He literally said that he could not extract forensic evidence of rape. This includes your "numerous bodies with genitals being damaged and not by the fire".

Here is the Wikipedia-entry on Moving the goalposts, please read it because you've used the term twice now but clearly don't understand what it even means. I've repeatably said there is zero forensic evidence presented of any rapes and your silly response was to suggest that morgues in Israel had presented evidence showing rape with a hilarious entry by Dr Chen Kugel where he literally says he could not find any forensic evidence of rape in a direct quote.

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DanDan1993@reddit

From burned bodies.... You know semen doesn't have fire protection, right?...

Why are you twisting reality to fit your opinions? Why did you lie about him spreading the beheaded babies? Why are you refusing to acknowledge Ges clearly stated why bo one has been bought to court, and you use "lack of court evidence" as some kind of magical proof for your claims?

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shieeet@reddit

Hahah wait, so all this time you've gone from:

There is definite forensic evidence of rape! Several morgues says so!
Okay, no morgue said so, but this [know spreader of misinformation] Dr Chen Kugel* says he he found it!
Okay, Dr Chen Kugel didn't find any forensic evidence of rape, BUT that because it may have been burned away in fire!

And you say I constantly are moving around the goal posts?? Are you serious 😂??

https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/s1rvs9myr

This dude is lying too, right?

Ah yes, the only first hand "account" of rape from an anonymous person claiming that Hamas stopped in the middle of the nova festival active combat scene with litteral rockes flying in the sky to have a massive gay rape gang bang only to leave him alone afterwards when they were done to tell the tale? A story, which of course, was never followed up on ever again? Perhaps, you can ask Dr. Chen Kugel to help you with the details hereas well 💁‍♂️?

Again, no forensic evidence of any rapes during the October 7th attacks. No pictures, no videos, no forensic evidence from rape kits or any semen samples from either survivors or corpses in the morgues, no named victims (alive or dead). No (non-secret, totally real) first-hand witnesses who claim they themselves were raped during the October 7th attacks. No prosecutions able to meet the threshold of proof in court.

Yet you still pretend that there was some overwhelming "mass rape event during October 7th"? You are either so dull and slow-witted that you actually believe this clearly false narrative, or you are intentionally lying about believing it. Regardless of these two scenarios, this honestly seems more like some kind of wierd rape fantasy you want to be true either knowingly or subconsciously, and that's kinda creepy and gross.

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DanDan1993@reddit

I never said there was no evidence... Once again you're just twisting reality to fit what you want.

Again, you're using the fact no trial has happened in a courtroom to say "look they have no evidence, this prices it". And again... This doesn't prove anything.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-18/ty-article-magazine/witnesses-confessions-naked-dead-bodies-all-the-evidence-of-hamas-rape-on-oct-7/0000018e-f114-d92e-abfe-f77f7e3f0000

Is this report fake news too?

"There are at least 15 survivors from the Nova music festival, where more than 360 people were murdered, who were witnesses to acts of individual rape and gang rape at different places on the grounds of the party, near Kibbutz Re'im. Five have already spoken about what they saw in the media.

An examination by Haaretz indicates that the SafeHeart organization, which was established in order to provide psychological support for the survivors of the massacre at the parties, has at least 10 more eyewitnesses whose testimonies have not yet been made public."

You realize you are the public and you don't deserve to see evidence just because you want to?

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shieeet@reddit

I never said there was no evidence... Once again you're just twisting reality to fit what you want.

Again, you're using the fact no trial has happened in a courtroom to say "look they have no evidence, this prices it". And again... This doesn't prove anything.

This doesn't prove anything!? This entire narrative about a supposed wave of mass rapes during October 7th needs to be proven before taken as fact. So far there has been zero proof presented, as i have been saying all along, and which you have now admitted to several times.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-18/ty-article-magazine/witnesses-confessions-naked-dead-bodies-all-the-evidence-of-hamas-rape-on-oct-7/0000018e-f114-d92e-abfe-f77f7e3f0000

Is this report fake news too?

"There are at least 15 survivors from the Nova music festival, where more than 360 people were murdered, who were witnesses to acts of individual rape and gang rape at different places on the grounds of the party, near Kibbutz Re'im. Five have already spoken about what they saw in the media.

An examination by Haaretz indicates that the SafeHeart organization, which was established in order to provide psychological support for the survivors of the massacre at the parties, has at least 10 more eyewitnesses whose testimonies have not yet been made public."

You realize you are the public and you don't deserve to see evidence just because you want to?

JESUS CHRIST, this is the exact same sources as in the Dinah Project and the Screams without Words investigation already. Not only is this like talking to an unusually dense stone that has difficulty understanding basic concepts as the burden of proof, but you clearly haven't read any of the original sources and keep going around in circles. If they got so many "reliable witnesses", why the fuck don't they use that in court?

For the millionth time, there has been ZERO EVIDENCE PRESENTED. Even if there is 10 000 pieces of evidence somewhere that hasn't been presented or used in court yet, you don't know this and cannot simply presume that it exists somewhere, just waiting to be used. This is, like, the most basic premise of general law.

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DanDan1993@reddit

I'll ask this so maybe you'll get a hint on how dense you sound;

If something happened BUT it didn't reach the courtrooms, did it magically not happen? You are using lack of trials and evidences presented in courtrooms as the core of your thesis which is just insane way to look at the world.

If a girl was rape and pressed charges and gave testimony at the police, but guess what? Either the terrorist is dead or his place is unknown in Gaza, or hell even she died and her family is only left knowing she was raped before being executed. How will the court tackle this?

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

zero witnesses saying they were raped presented,

https://www.timesofisrael.com/male-october-7-survivor-recounts-rape-at-hands-of-hamas-terrorists/

Rape denialist GFY.

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shieeet@reddit

Hey, you are the one that loves ZAKA, not me 😂

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

Anything to say about a witness saying they were raped? Besides cheers of course?

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

So 5,000 photographs is "no evidence" in your mind. Wow. Incredible dishonesty.

Even one of Israel's top prosecutors admitted that they could not find any evidence or witnesses concerning mass rapes and sexual violence on October 7th to proceed with any legal action.

Where does it say that in your article?

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shieeet@reddit

So 5,000 photographs and eyewitness statements is "no evidence" in your mind. Wow. Incredible dishonesty.

Even when feigning ignorance you're incredibly bad at this. You've obviously not read anything or engaged with the sources.

They reviewed over 5000 photographs, 50 hours of video footage, had free access to Israeli morgues, and yet didn't find a single photo sexual violence, any forensic evidence of sexual violence, or a single first hand survivor of sexual assault.

Where does it say that in your article?

Machine translation: "The biggest difficulty is evidentiary, explains Gas. Using evidence to link a specific crime to a specific defendant when dealing with dozens of crime scenes, where hundreds of suspects were caught and thousands of offenses were committed, is almost impossible. "The usual laws of evidence are not suitable for this event. There are no organized chains of evidence, there is no one who filmed the videos you want to present in court."

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

and yet didn't find a single photo sexual violence, any forensic evidence of sexual violence, or a single first hand survivor of sexual assault.

You're obviously lying, dude. From the report, "Haim Otmazgin, a commander of ZAKA unit in charge of data and bodies collection at the National Rescue Unit, in a conversation with Dinah Project members, February 5, 2024, recounted a case of a female body found in Kibbutz Be’eri with a metal object inserted in her vagina. The case of the body in Be’eri was recounted by several other first responders, and is corroborated by photos."

Maybe if it was a woman you actually gave a shit about (aka not a Jewish one), you'd recognize that FORCING A METAL OBJECT INTO HER VAGAINA is sexual violence.

or a single first hand survivor of sexual assault.

This is just ignorance at this point.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/male-october-7-survivor-recounts-rape-at-hands-of-hamas-terrorists/

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shieeet@reddit

"Haim Otmazgin, a commander of ZAKA unit in charge of data and bodies collection at the National Rescue Unit, in a conversation with Dinah Project members, February 5, 2024, recounted a case of a female body found in Kibbutz Be’eri with a metal object inserted in her vagina.

Hahahah Haim Otmazgin of ZAKA??! Not only the organization in question whoses main figurehead, Yehuda Meshi-Zahav, turned out to have raped small boys, girls and women for decades, but also ZAKA the organization whoses officials actively helped cover up Yehuda Meshi-Zahav child raping? That ZAKA??

Haim Otmazgin? The very same Haim Otmazgin that got caught lying so much about the october 7th rapes that even the goddamn Times Of Israel had to denounce him, practically saying his testimony alone was the very thing was fueling global doubt about the October 7 mass rape narrative? That Haim Otmazgin??

The ZAKA that first spread the false beheaded babies stories? The ZAKA that spread false stories pregnant woman killed with a fetus removed from her womb?

I see you and your friends in ZAKA there totally care the truth or rapes 🤡

This is just ignorance at this point. https://www.timesofisrael.com/male-october-7-survivor-recounts-rape-at-hands-of-hamas-terrorists/

Ah yes, the only first hand "account" of rape from an anonymous person claiming that Hamas stopped in the middle of the nova festival active combat scene to have a massive gay rape gang bang only to leave him alone afterwards when they were done to tell the tale? A story, which of course, was never followed up on ever again? Perhaps your beloved ZAKA is can help us out with some details here again 💁‍♂️?

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

Thanks for admitting you lied when you said there's not a single photo of sexual violence. GFY.

Ah yes, the only first hand "account" of rape from an anonymous perso

Thanks for admitting you lied when you said there's not a single first hand survivor of sexual assault.

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TraditionalGap1@reddit

'no forensic evidence'

'no evidence'

And he talks about dishonesty...

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

What would you consider to be evidence?

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TraditionalGap1@reddit

My friend, forensic evidence already has a definition. Something that would meet that definition.

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TraditionalGap1@reddit

The reports you're discussing that you clearly didn't read very carefully?

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

Quote that section.

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TraditionalGap1@reddit

Why? It's not like it'll make any difference to you. It never has in the past, and there's a lot of that past in your case. I'm not trying to convince you or win you over.

You've either read the report, in which case you're aware of all the qualifications it makes and the paucity of non-hearsay evidence it points out repeatedly, or you've only skimmed it/not read it at all, in which case you're uninformed. It's not like the relevant sections haven't been quoted in comments you have directly replied to.

By your own actions you've forfeited the right to expect or demand anything.

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Type_02@reddit

He cant read, Trump has cut US Education to save money.

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waiver@reddit

He has said before that he is amember of the IDF

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

A bunch of personal attacks and no quote. Busted.

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TraditionalGap1@reddit

And yet I note that you still haven't actually engaged with the quote you so desire that another redditor provided you.

I'll let the viewers decide how accurate my description of you is.

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modianoyyo@reddit

read the report and come up with your own conclusions. do you think "earwitnesses" are a good source of anything? because plenty of the sources are that (they heard from someone else that something happened).

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

I did. Can you answer my question please? Because many of these GHF shooting claims are based entirely on eyewitness testimony, if you don't think they're evidence that's a bit of an issue.

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modianoyyo@reddit

many of the what, sorry?

again, have you read the report? i don't dismiss eyewitness testimony, i'm questioning what information was derived from eyewitnesses vs earwitnesses and whether the information was corroborated somehow.

if you go to page 35 of the report, you'll see that they have 15 sources of eye and earwitnesses, but they combine whatever information is coming from one and the other. i think eyewitnesses are a more reliable source of information than earwitnesses, so why would they mix the two together? why don't they say how many eyewitnesses they have vs earwitnesses, and perhaps make a distinction between what can be learned from one and the other?

my guess is because what they got from them mostly derives from hearsay or things people heard, not so much from real eyewitnesses. it's also worth nothing that by their own admission, most of this information is not new, and they make no distinction between this "open source information" and the stuff they found out through "information received directly from witnesses with whom we engaged within the framework of our professional work" (whatever that means).

again, they're trying to put lipstick on a pig and see whether some dummies buy the "systemic rape" allegation this time.

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

You're right, combining ear and eyewitnesses is ironclad proof it's all made up. It's clear nothing they can say will convince you that Israelis can be victims.

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modianoyyo@reddit

i never claimed that they were made up. jesus, you're really bad at deflecting (just like the iron dome based on the recent irani attacks 😅)

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FudgeAtron@reddit

There is no evidence for any mass rape event during October 7th. No pictures, no videos, no forensic evidence from rapekits or any semen samples from either survivors or corpses in the morgues, no named victims - alive or dead.

Didn't you write this several comments up?

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modianoyyo@reddit

Didn't you write this several comments up?

no, but nice try.

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FudgeAtron@reddit

Ah yeah all you generic flairs blur together

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modianoyyo@reddit

europe's where i'm from. i can trace back my lineage many generations back.

i know where i'm from, where my grandparents lived and where their grandparents lived. sorry you'll never be able to say that.

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Throwaway5432154322@reddit

europe’s where im from. I can trace my lineage many generations back… I know where I’m from, where my grandparents lived, where their grandparents lived. sorry you’ll never be able to say that

What a weird comment lmao. Are you trying to flex your bloodline rn? We’re not on Downton Abbey dude. Billions of people live in different places from their grandparents, much less great-great-grandparents. It’s… incredibly common.

Why would anyone feel bad about not knowing where their great-great-grandparents lived, anyway? That’s five generations back. I’m guessing the average person probably doesn’t even know their great-great-grandparents’ names, much less where they lived.

And why would you even assume that guy doesn’t know where his ancestors lived, anyway? Cause it kinda seems like you’re doing the whole “wandering Jew” thing. It kinda seems like you just thought, “he’s Jewish, Jews were historically scattered in diaspora, Jews are historically ‘stateless wanderers’, so he doesn’t know his family tree”.

It’s 2025, it’s pretty easy to go on Ancestry and figure out where your ancestors lived, if you want. Most people actually have to do that, because most people don’t have family that’s lived in the same place for 100+ years.

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modianoyyo@reddit

🥱

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Throwaway5432154322@reddit

Oh so very sorry m’lord, I would never disrespect your lineage like that, please don’t have me flogged like the other servants

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modianoyyo@reddit

i don't do serfdom, i'm a republican. i believe all men are equal, whether they are educated or american.

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Throwaway5432154322@reddit

Flexing your lineage is a very non-republican thing to do, you know that, right?

Ffs who am I kidding, you couldn’t even address a single thing I said in my first comment and responded with a single emoji.

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FudgeAtron@reddit

Lol my family have been living in the same city for 200 years, it's called Jerusalem you might have heard of it.

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modianoyyo@reddit

oi guv, mr jerusalem. how is the weather up there?

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FudgeAtron@reddit

This is honestly just a little sad, I do love it when Euros expose themselves though very on brand.

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modianoyyo@reddit

even though brexit happened, you're still an european, mate.

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FudgeAtron@reddit

I was never a "European" I just have citizenship of a European country. Just as having gotten Indian citizenship doesn't suddenly make me an Indian.

Not sure why you think Brexit changes any of that. The UK deciding to leave the trading market doesn't change their status as European.

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modianoyyo@reddit

lol i'm sure. this is why you post exclusively in english.

my guess either american or british jew.

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FudgeAtron@reddit

Mwahaha yes I got British citizenship at 12 what a liar am I. You do know Israelis also leave the country and live in other places right?

The fact that we've lived in Jerusalem 200 years doesn't mean I lived there my entire life without break. This is the modern world we move around a lot.

But I do enjoy the European need to discredit Jewish people as real, it's very on brand for Europeans.

אני יכול לכתוב לך בעברית גם אבל נראה לי שאתה לא מבין עברית ואתה לא תבין עברית אז אולי אתה קצת חייב ללמוד לא להיות כל כך איך נגיד בן זונה או אחו שרמוטה או בן חרא. אבל אם אתה תדבר איתנו עם פחות חוצפה ושנאה אולי תקבל ישראלים שמתקללים פחות ממני. לא יודע אולי זה משהו להתחשב.

This is honestly why I left the UK, Euros have no ability to understand Jews, their hatred for us is immeasurable. And the UK is one of the least antisemitic countries in Europe. I'm so glad I never lived in France Spain Italy or anywhere in Eastern Europe, those places rife with Jew hatred and violence.

If you're from Europe and your whole family's from Europe I'm sure you can understand why us Jews no longer want to live on your continent.

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modianoyyo@reddit

am i supposed to feel guilty by something someone from another country did to the jews?

for what it's worth, i think the extermination of jews and the roma, communists, socialists, homosexuals, and a long etc. was an immense tragedy. but i care more about the living than the dead, sorry.

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TraditionalGap1@reddit

Perhsps you'd care to point out exactly where in that statement anyone says anything is 'made up', as opposed to 'not corraborated by any non-hearsay evidence'?

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NotStompy@reddit

Except you totally did, as the person below just cited.

For someone using a laughing emoji I'd think you'd at least know the Iron dome is not what was used recently?

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themightycatp00@reddit

The claim that Israel tortures Palestinians in sde teiman is also completely based on witness testimony so according the OP I guess that's not true either

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

Eyewitness testimony is fine when it's not Jews doing the testifying.

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Unable_Duck9588@reddit

Not Jews.. just Israelis.

The problem is Israel, plenty of Jews are against Israel’s genocide.

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Pklnt@reddit

You tell us.

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Naggins@reddit

The sexual assault of what the Israeli authorities described as dozens of women is horrific, particularly the specific acts described by witnesses.

I'm not really sure how it could constitute a "genocidal strategy", and would be interested to hear the logic behind that.

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ElasticCrow393@reddit

Mohammed Deif gave a speech on October 7th where he called on all Palestinians to kill any Israeli. He excluded children and the elderly, but not Israeli women. He was fine with them being slaughtered.

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Naggins@reddit

Okay, but 1) a "genocidal strategy" requires means and 2) this doesn't speak to the allegation that sexual assault was an element of any genocidal strategy

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

1) a "genocidal strategy" requires means

Why?

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modianoyyo@reddit

because it's very different when someone says "i want to kill you" when they have a) intent and b) capability to go through it. otherwise it's just rhetoric.

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BehemothDeTerre@reddit

If someone issues such a death threat against me, I'm not going to dismiss it because the person doesn't currently appear to have the means to carry it out.
I'm going to the police immediately.

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

Seems like Hamas showed its capability to go through with it on October 7th.

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modianoyyo@reddit

if you think hamas has the capability to genocide 9 million israelis then you're simply a fool.

i know you don't believe that, and we're not having a conversation in good faith so don't waste your breath.

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

You don't have to kill all nine million Israelis to commit genocide. Remember, genocide is killing in whole or in part.

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ElasticCrow393@reddit

What do you think happens when you order anyone to take a machete and slaughter?

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Naggins@reddit

There was a slaughter, no one's disputing that. What I'm disputing is whether a slaughter constitutes a genocide, which it clearly doesn't. 1200 people were killed, 900 civilians murdered, dozens of women sexually assaulted. That's horrific. Why are you trying to argue that it was a genocide?

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ElasticCrow393@reddit

There was definitely a genocidal intent; just watch the interview with one of the Hamas leaders in Norway when they showed him the videos. He thinks it's okay because they're "settlers," so it's right to massacre them even if they're not soldiers. So, yes, there is a genocidal intent.

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Naggins@reddit

Intent is not by itself sufficient for genocide. Genocide is defined by intentional destruction of an ethnic, national, religious or racial group in whole or in part. October 7th simply does not meet the threshold of "destruction of a group".

October 7th was the horrific slaughter of mostly innocent civilians. That does not make it a genocide. There were 1200 people killed, 900 of them civilians. Israeli sources reported that dozens of women were sexually assaulted, from an Israeli population of nearly 10 million. That does not constitute a genocide.

Why is it important to you that people think that sexual assaults by Hamas on October 7th constitute a "genocidal strategy"?

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FudgeAtron@reddit

Intent is not by itself sufficient for genocide.

Actually it is. That's why attempted genocide is a crime. If you believe that there was genocidal intent on October 7 then it no doubt constitutes genocide as they intentionally wiped out several villages.

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Naggins@reddit

Attempted genocide is applicable if October 7th was a step taken or attempt towards the eradication of Jewish people in Israel.

Given that there were 6,000 combatants, Israel has a population of 10 million, the IDF has ~170,000 in active service, then I do not believe that October 7th was a step taken or attempt towards the eradication of Jewish people in Israel. I do not think that is, was, or could've been a plausible outcome of the October 7th attacks, and I do not believe that was the intention of the October 7th attacks.

Whether Hamas would commit a genocide against Jewish Israelis if they were in a position to do so is less relevant than the actual reality of what happened.

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FudgeAtron@reddit

attempt towards the eradication of Jewish people in Israel.

Genocide convention says in whole or in part. So it would defo be covered. It doesn't have to have been plausible. The convention states that any crime against humanity done in the furtherance of an attempt to wipe out a people in part of in whole is genocide.

Whether October 7 was genocide entirely hinges on whether you think that was Hamas' intention.

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Naggins@reddit

Genocide convention says in whole or in part. So it would defo be covered

I don't think "in part" means 0.012% of Israel's population. Currently lower bound estimates suggest at least 3% of Gaza's population has been killed since October 7th, likely a lot more due to secondary deaths (famine, infrastructure destruction, disease, etc).

Let's use 9/11 for comparison - 2700 people out of 285m US population were killed in 9/11. That's 0.001% of the population. Bin Laden declared a holy war on the US, and believed that every US citizen was complicit in US foreign policy. Was that an attempted genocide?

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

If targeted air strikes on Hamas militants are a genocidal strategy, indiscriminate sexual violence is a genocidal strategy.

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Naggins@reddit

Not really. October 7th has more in common with 9/11 and other terrorist attacks than anything that could even vaguely resemble a genocide. You're talking about several dozen women brutally sexually assaulted, so there's two issues with calling that a "genocidal strategy" - 1) it is less "genocidal" than the killing of 1200 people on October 7th simply by reason of the numbers affected, and 2) it was a smash and grab attack and retreat. It has neither the scale or the longevity that would make a case for a feasible claim of genocide.

If Hamas were still in Israeli territory now doing what they did on October 7th, then sure, there would absolutely be a case for genocide against Israelis. But they're not, so there isn't.

Also, not sure how familiar you are with The Dubliners, but it might be worth looking into their politics and maybe getting a new username.

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BehemothDeTerre@reddit

If Hamas were still in Israeli territory now doing what they did on October 7th, then sure, there would absolutely be a case for genocide against Israelis. But they're not, so there isn't.

The only reason they aren't is because they couldn't hold the land.
It's the same distinction as the distinction between "homicide" and "attempted homicide". Failure excuses nothing, attempted genocide is still attempted genocide.

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Naggins@reddit

Total force of 6,000 people, they were never going to hold any territory.

The idea of Hamas holding and maintaining any territory following October 7th is completely implausible, and considering they don't even control the Gaza strip is bordering on delusional.

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

Going into towns and villages and indiscriminately killing anyone they could get their hands on is a genocidal strategy, even when it's Palestinians doing it. If it were Soviets or Nazis doing what Hamas and company did on October 7th, there'd be no question it was racially motivated attempted genocide at an absolute minimum.

2) it was a smash and grab attack and retreat.

Ah, so if the IDF went into a town in the West Bank and slaughtered everyone there and then went home, that wouldn't be evidence of genocide?

If Hamas were still in Israeli territory now doing what they did on October 7th, then sure, there would absolutely be a case for genocide against Israelis. But they're not, so there isn't.

Only because the IDF that you guys all want dead are stopping them.

Also, not sure how familiar you are with The Dubliners, but it might be worth looking into their politics and maybe getting a new username.

I don't care about the Dubliners' politics. The Irish are as a whole quite hypocritical when it comes to Israel/Palestine, siding with the colonizer Arabs instead of the indigenous Jews, and calling Jews racists for wanting their own state while the Irish fought for centuries for their state.

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Naggins@reddit

Going into towns and villages and indiscriminately killing anyone they could get their hands on is a genocidal strategy, even when it's Palestinians doing it. If it were Soviets or Nazis doing what Hamas and company did on October 7th, there'd be no question it was racially motivated attempted genocide at an absolute minimum.

It's less about who's doing it and more about how much it's being done. The idea of an "attempted genocide" occurring in one day is patently ridiculous. The Soviet genocides of Ukrainian kulaks and Kazakhs were done over periods of years. Their genocide against the Cossacks happened over a period of 14 years. The Holocaust occurred over a period of 4 years.

If Hamas had somehow managed to continue expanding into Israel, slaughtering tens of thousands of innocent Israelis, then yes, we'd be talking about a genocide. But they didn't, and they never would have been capable of doing so with 6,000 people, and is inconsistent with Ariel Merari's analysis of their orders to kidnap Israelis and transporting them to Gaza.

There's already words for what Hamas did to innocent Israelis on October 7th, and for what anti-Semites have been doing to innocent Jewish people for centuries. Call it an invasion, call it terrorism, call it a pogrom, these are all fair and reasonable terms. But if the only argument you have for it being a genocide is that if they had kept going indefinitely then it would have been a genocide, then it's not a genocide.

Ah, so if the IDF went into a town in the West Bank and slaughtered everyone there and then went home, that wouldn't be evidence of genocide?

If they did that, and only that, then no. In combination with their bombing campaign in Gaza and restriction of aid access, it would make accusations of genocide even more plausible.

Only because the IDF that you guys all want dead are stopping them.

Who's "you guys"?

I don't care about the Dubliners' politics. The Irish are as a whole quite hypocritical when it comes to Israel/Palestine, siding with the colonizer Arabs instead of the indigenous Jews, and calling Jews racists for wanting their own state while the Irish fought for centuries for their state.

Naive and reductive analysis of the centuries of history of the Palestinian region up until the 1900s, complete misunderstanding of what colonisation means, no understanding of what indigineity actually means. Par for the course.

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BehemothDeTerre@reddit

Genocide isn't about numbers, but intent. Hamas intends to exterminate all Jews. Their incapacity to actually do so is irrelevant.

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

Can you please cite any definition of genocide in which it's time boxed? Because the war in Gaza hadn't even started yet and it was being described as a genocide by folks at the time.

If they did that, and only that, then no.

Oh PLEASE. You and I both know that if the IDF did something like that, it would be 100% be described as genocidal.

Hell, Netanyahu and company's mean words were described as "genocidal rhetoric", so apparently mean words are genocide but slaughtering hundreds of Jews isn't. What the actual fuck.

Who's "you guys"?

The pro-Palestine/pro-Hamas camp.

Naive and reductive analysis of the centuries of history of the Palestinian region up until the 1900s, complete misunderstanding of what colonisation means, no understanding of what indigineity actually means. Par for the course.

I know the history of Palestine and what colonization and indigeneity is far more than you do, I even know how to spell the last word right. Personal attacks aren't an argument.

I'll keep it simple for you: Arabs invaded and colonized Palestine in the 7th century. Palestinians are Arabs. Thus, Palestinian Arabs are a colonial presence in Palestine.

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Naggins@reddit

Can you please cite any definition of genocide in which it's time boxed?

It isn't time boxed. I mention time because scale of destruction is relevant. If Hamas had killed a million Israelis in one day then yes, genocide. But that is impossible, and didn't happen, so it's not worth entertaining. If Hamas had killed 1200 Jewish people every day for a month, then yes, plausible accusation of genocide. Killing 1200 Jewish people every day for a year, then almost certain genocide. Scale is relevant. Unless you think 9/11 was a genocide too? Or every anti-Semitic pogrom in history?

Oh PLEASE. You and I both know that if the IDF did something like that, it would be 100% be described as genocidal.

How about this for an analogy - IDF kill 1200 people in Gaza and then stop. I wouldn't be calling that a genocide, I'd be calling that a retaliation. But they didn't stop. They've killed upwards of 60,000 people in a population of 2,000,000, and explicitly declared their intention to remove every Gazan they don't kill.

Hell, Netanyahu and company's mean words were described as "genocidal rhetoric", so apparently mean words are genocide but slaughtering hundreds of Jews isn't. What the actual fuck.

Yes, because they've already killed at least 60,000 people, they and GHO are killing civilians at aid distribution sites, and they have repeatedly said they plan to expel every Palestinian from Gaza. They are 1) expressing an intention to remove every Gazan Palestinian and 2) engaging in actions that will kill massive numbers of Gazan Palestinians.

The pro-Palestine/pro-Hamas camp.

Are these the same camps? What have I said that suggests I'm pro-Hamas?

I honestly hope that you're being deliberately obtuse here, because otherwise you're just pathologically stupid.

I know the history of Palestine and what colonization and indigeneity is far more than you do, I even know how to spell the last word right. Personal attacks aren't an argument.

What personal attacks? Nothing I said was an insult.

I actually hope that you're being deliberately obtuse here, because the alternative is just worrying. Either way, there's no convincing you. You think that 6,000 people killing 1200 people from a population of 10 million is a genocide. There's no arguing with a premise that divorced from reality.

Have a nice day.

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

So how many Jews would Hamas have to have killed on October 7th before it's genocide? 2,000? 5,000? 10,000?

You do know the IDF has never killed 1,200 Gazans in any one day of the war, right?

IDF kill 1200 people in Gaza and then stop. I wouldn't be calling that a genocide, I'd be calling that a retaliation. But they didn't stop. They've killed upwards of 60,000 people in a population of 2,000,000, and explicitly declared their intention to remove every Gazan they don't kill.

So again, when was the tipping point when it stopped becoming retaliation and start being a genocide? Make sure you cite your source!

They are 1) expressing an intention to remove every Gazan Palestinian and 2) engaging in actions that will kill massive numbers of Gazan Palestinians.

And how does that not also apply to Hamas? Expressing intention.

What personal attacks? Nothing I said was an insult.

You called me naive and not understanding.

. You think that 6,000 people killing 1200 people from a population of 10 million is a genocide.

I'm not the only one.

But hey, I get it, it's not like those 1,200 Israelis were people you actually care about, like Palestinians.

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Naggins@reddit

Lmao why are you so obsessed with days.

The relevant factor is quantity. Israel have killed 3% of Gaza's population, at least. Hamas killed 0.012% of Israel's population on October 7th, and something like 0.2% in total since then including combatants.

There is no comparison. Give up.

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modianoyyo@reddit

"targeted" lol

then october 7th was also "targeted attacks" since the ratio of idf to israeli civilian deaths was higher than hamas to palestinian civilians.

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

I agree, October 7th was targeted, at peaceful villages and music festivals.

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modianoyyo@reddit

they targeted quite a lot of idf soldiers, so they're a lot more moral than the most moral army in the history of the world!

hamas with the surgical precision.

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meister2983@reddit

Israel actually keeps their bases away from civilians. They could have only shot IDF, but didn't happen

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modianoyyo@reddit

hamas has a better ratio of combatant to non-combatant casualties at the end of the day.

surgical precision.

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BufferUnderpants@reddit

Hopefully this will prompt Israelis to abolish the IDF terror arm of the Likud regime

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PlinyToTrajan@reddit

Let's not further indulge the fiction of "targeted air strikes on Hamas militants."

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modianoyyo@reddit

I'm not really sure how it could constitute a "genocidal strategy", and would be interested to hear the logic behind that.

it isn't, but it's a good distraction from the actual genocide they are committing.

i don't think that anyone who is related to the israeli regime should be believed at this point. we're still waiting for the pictures of the beheaded babies.

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Sus_Suspect_4293@reddit

The beheaded babies argument is so stupid. OMG A THOUSAND CIVILIANS DIED AND HUNDREDS OF WOMEN WERE RAPED BUT AT LEAST WE DIDN'T BEHEAD 40 BABIES RIGHT????????????

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BehemothDeTerre@reddit

Yeah, I still don't get why they think it's such a "gotcha".
"Turns out Hamas shot babies rather than behead them! Let's worship the fuckers!"

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modianoyyo@reddit

HUNDREDS OF WOMEN

where is the proof?

you're overtly emotional. facts don't care about your feelings, sweety

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Sus_Suspect_4293@reddit

Try this UN report https://www.un.org/sexualviolenceinconflict/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/report/mission-report-official-visit-of-the-office-of-the-srsg-svc-to-israel-and-the-occupied-west-bank-29-january-14-february-2024/20240304-Israel-oWB-CRSV-report.pdf

I don't expect you to be able to read to read so here are some October 7 videos, I can't believe you are making me do this: https://xcancel.com/AzatAlsalim/status/1917250817872089234/video/1 https://xcancel.com/NiohBerg/status/1790724886131814642/video/1 https://xcancel.com/CatShoshanna/status/1793672429119881482 https://xcancel.com/LizaRosen0000/status/1907733189214314932/video/1

How about Haaretz? https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-07-06/ty-article/.premium/new-report-reveals-hamas-widespread-and-systematic-sexual-violence-on-october-7/00000197-e061-d083-a3b7-f873be360000

Bold of you to use a quote invented by a jew, but anyway, facts don't care about your feelings.

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modianoyyo@reddit

i just glanced through the un report, it never said anything about hundreds of rapes. give me quotes from the report that support the claim that hundreds or rapes took place.

the haaretz article you share is about the report which i have read and discussed elsewhere here. but i'll go ahead and say here what i've said elsewhere: the number one source for the report is someone who nearly got raped.

where are the rape survivors? where are the bodies with signs of sexual assault or abuse?

if it was in the hundreds as you say, they should be easy to find.

again, facts don't care about your feelings, sweety.

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Sus_Suspect_4293@reddit

You just conveniently glossed over the videos I provided. Forget it, nothing will convinve a conspiracy theorist like you. Especially not one who says "Facts don't care about your feelings" despite not even providing a single source to prove their claims are facts.

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modianoyyo@reddit

ok so you don't have any proof.

facts don't care about your feelings, sorry.

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Sus_Suspect_4293@reddit

Do you have any proof rape didn't happen? I'm still yet to see any facts

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modianoyyo@reddit

lol how can i prove that something didn't happen you donut. the burden of proof is on you

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Sus_Suspect_4293@reddit

You could very easily find reports disproving a widely spread claim if that claim were to be false genious.

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modianoyyo@reddit

lol yes, you can prove something didn't happen you genius

too emotional. facts don't care about your feelings, sweety

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Sus_Suspect_4293@reddit

Yes you can, but I get it, you have no evidence.

Also not emotional, I'm chilling right now. You are making this way too easy for me Mr Shapiro.

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modianoyyo@reddit

lol nobody believes the hasbara anymore

enjoy your shekels. buy yourself something nice and come up with better lies than "people were raped and here's a 0:18 twitter video"

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deleted_by_reddit@reddit

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beefprime@reddit

In addition to the absurd disproportionality even if it did happen, it never actually happened, either. It was a complete fabricated hasbara that the US government and media picked up and ran with without any kind of investigation at all right up to the US President Biden himself claiming to have seen pictures, a blatant lie from a lifelong Zionist.

Here is an article for any doubters:

https://archive.ph/20250122231930/https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2024/04/03/40-beheaded-babies-the-itinerary-of-a-rumor-at-the-heart-of-the-information-battle-between-israel-and-hamas_6667274_8.html

And one from Haaretz in the context of the wild, false claims of various systematic atrocities fueling October 7th denialism:

https://archive.ph/20231220010209/https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-04/ty-article-magazine/.premium/hamas-committed-documented-atrocities-but-a-few-false-stories-feed-the-deniers/0000018c-34f3-da74-afce-b5fbe24f0000

Despite knowing pretty quickly that these reports/claims of the systematic killing of children were questionable at best, western media continued to use them as centerpieces of articles to smear Hamas to manufacture consent for the genocide that was now beginning.

[-]

Sus_Suspect_4293@reddit

Literally nobody brought this up beyond the first week, except for October 7 deniers whenever they want to claim the whole thing was a lie.

Also, the 40 beheaded babies was an exaggerated early report based on eyewitness accounts from IDF soldiers to refer to the actual number of children killed and the actually methods used to kill people during 10/7 whether they were used on these kids or not. That's why sometimes you'll see 40 beheaded babies, other times 40 burned babies, 40 hanged babies, etc. The official number of children killed during 10/7 is 36 so what the non exaggerated report would actually mean is 40 killed children, some beheaded, some burned, some hanged.

Will you go with the Hannibal directive argument next?

[-]

beefprime@reddit

The president of the US repeated the beheaded babies claim and said he had seen pictures of it, they later had to walk this back and say he had not seen any such pictures, since no such pictures of beheaded babies existed. You can stop pretending its just some isolated exaggerated reports that didn't go anywhere, it was all over US news for weeks and repeated by high level administration officials. In addition there WAS in fact push back within days of October 7th that the beheaded babies claims in general was an unsubstantiated claim and likely misinformation or mistaken at best, here's one from October 12th: https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/12/middleeast/israel-hamas-beheading-claims-intl

There are other similar articles, along with multiple leaked State Dept. memos that leaked within a month (unsure when those memos were actually written/submitted) that pushed back on the Biden administration specifically citing spreading misinformation.

There were alot of attacks and atrocities on people on October 7th, so why not just stick with the truth? Its because Israel was trying to create a single exceptional focal point that crystalizes in peoples' minds so that when they enact the final ethnic cleansing of Gaza there is less push back because they have thoroughly maligned and dehumanized Palestinians.

Will you go with the Hannibal directive argument next?

Israeli officials and soldiers have repeatedly testified that the Hannibal directive was in effect on October 7th, so I'm not sure why you'd bring that up as if it isn't true.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-07-07/ty-article-magazine/.premium/idf-ordered-hannibal-directive-on-october-7-to-prevent-hamas-taking-soldiers-captive/00000190-89a2-d776-a3b1-fdbe45520000

Or here if you are paywalled (it just refers back to the Haaretz article):

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/7/7/israeli-army-used-hannibal-directive-during-october-7-hamas-attack-report

Not that this has anything to do with the babies claims, but you brought it up, so here we are.

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Sus_Suspect_4293@reddit

You are proving my point when I say that October 7 deniers stick to the 40 babies claim to try to deny or downplay the whole thing. I already told you it was an exagerated report that everyone dropped after a few days and yet here you are trying to convince me it's an extensively used lie.

I also brought up the Hannibal directive claim as it's the other argument October 7 deniers use to somehow claim that the IDF killed all 1300 Oct 7 fatalities.

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beefprime@reddit

everyone dropped after a few days

They didn't though. It was propagated through social media and traditional media for months, along with the false claims of systematic rape, we're still talking about it now almost 2 years later, and many people still believe it.

I also brought up the Hannibal directive claim as it's the other argument October 7 deniers use to somehow claim that the IDF killed all 1300 Oct 7 fatalities.

Well, let me know when you meet one of those deniers, like the ones that I explicitly name in connection to the Haaretz article in my first comment, not sure why you think I am one.

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Sus_Suspect_4293@reddit

False claims of systemic rape

I read enough, the videos are all over the internet

[-]

beefprime@reddit

And you're the systematic rape version of the 40 baby people, just propagating unsubstantiated garbage initially reported uncritically by media who took the story from an actual Israeli former intelligence agent who had no journalistic credentials or proof. Plenty of rapes occurred on October 7th, you don't have to make up extra dimensions to the atrocity.

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Sus_Suspect_4293@reddit

I dont even know what you meant there at the start, but at least you accepted that rapes were widespread in 10/7

[-]

loggy_sci@reddit

People like you deny atrocities and crimes committed by Hamas out of hand, without bothering to look at the evidence.

[-]

TraditionalGap1@reddit

Of course, if someone had bothered to 'look at the evidence' they would discover that, oddly enough, there isn't any besides hearsay of varous reliabilities.

[-]

Heymelon@reddit

The good ol pics or it didn't happen defense, Jeffrey Epstein would be proud.

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TraditionalGap1@reddit

In this case the accuser has a long sordid history of demonstrably false accusations, and let's not pretend that's not also relevant.

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modianoyyo@reddit

i've read the report, have you?

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meister2983@reddit

Do you have any idea what the word regime actually means?

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modianoyyo@reddit

yes, according to the west is a government i don't like. i don't like israel's government, hence i use regime.

same way you would use iran's "regime".

next question.

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BehemothDeTerre@reddit

I'm not really sure how it could constitute a "genocidal strategy", and would be interested to hear the logic behind that.

Considering Hamas is a genocidal entity, I don't think it's much of a stretch to think the violence they commit against the very population they want to genocide is part of a genocidal strategy.

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Unable_Duck9588@reddit

It’s a taskforce that was assembled on oct 7th by Israelis and their report is being pushed by all western media outlets.

Sexual violence is abhorrant, and there’s no doubt it occurred on oct 7th, but the idea that it was systematic will be interesting to prove and would require further legal action, which is apparently what the group aims to do.

I’m glad they’re doing this, sexual violence has no place in any civilized world, I just hope they remain true to their word to combat all forms of sexual violence, including the many reported cases of systematic abuse by the IDF, otherwise it’s just another tool for propaganda.

https://trt.global/world/article/18184007

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/03/more-human-can-bear-israels-systematic-use-sexual-reproductive-and-other

It would be nice if the Palestinian claims of systematic rape were to be taken seriously by western media, hope to see some fair coverage soon.

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outestiers@reddit

and there’s no doubt it occurred on oct 7th

Actually, there is no evidence that it did occur.

[-]

Sus_Suspect_4293@reddit

There are literally hours of footage

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outestiers@reddit

Show me.

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Sus_Suspect_4293@reddit

Are you seriously going to make me do this? Sigh

https://xcancel.com/AzatAlsalim/status/1917250817872089234/video/1 https://xcancel.com/CatShoshanna/status/1793672429119881482 https://xcancel.com/NiohBerg/status/1790724886131814642/video/1 https://xcancel.com/LizaRosen0000/status/1907733189214314932/video/1

"No evidence"

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modianoyyo@reddit

wow i can't believe he made you do THAT (post some twitter links).

INCREDIBLE

[-]

Sus_Suspect_4293@reddit

Why did you feel the need to spy my comment history this late into our little discussion? 🤣🤣🤣

[-]

modianoyyo@reddit

i'm just going through the thread, guy

you really have a persecution complex lol

where are the pictures of the beheaded babies, though

[-]

Sus_Suspect_4293@reddit

Sigh, nobody uses the 40 beheaded babies claim any more. See this thread and stop wasting my time https://www.reddit.com/r/anime_titties/s/68YSO5jmE0

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modianoyyo@reddit

so there were no beheaded babies? why would israel lie??

there were no raped women, either it seems. get some medical records, it should be easy to prove some of the dead were victims of sexual abuse.

but you won't do that. enjoy the shekels my man you have earned them

[-]

Unable_Duck9588@reddit

There are a few reported instances and I would rather leave a logical gap and believe that some cases might have occurred, but I’m not sure of the claims of systematic, weaponised SA.

[-]

outestiers@reddit

There are no reported incidents that have been corroborated by any evidence. There's no reason to cede points to Zionist propaganda.

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Naggins@reddit

There's survivors of the attacks who have claimed they witnessed sexual violence. What other evidence would there be? Some accounts have been disputed, but not all of them.

You can have a critical perspective on Israeli propaganda, but dismissing out of hand the idea that male combatants in an insurgency committed sexual assault in the course of it is divorced from reality. 6,000 Hamas and civilian combatants killed over 800 civilians and injured 3,400, 30-40% of them women, and you're trying to argue none of them were sexually assaulted?

Males have been sexually assaulting innocent women since time immemorial. The idea that the October 7th combatants were uniquely chaste and restrained is about as delusional as the idea that they were committing tactical sexual assault.

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waiver@reddit

The claim is not that there was rape, but that there was systemic rape, as in pre-planned and used as a weapon of war.

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Naggins@reddit

Which is what Unable Duck said, and you disagreed with.

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loggy_sci@reddit

Denying rape and SA is disgusting.

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Unable_Duck9588@reddit

I will still hold judgement until we get some form of comfirmation via 3rd party some day.

Still doesn’t change the fact that this report is just Israel running interference after building the concentration camp and anonymous soldier confessions became a huge pr disaster.

Democrat voters overwhelmingly support Palestine now in the US and young voters in Europe are also making their anti Israel voice heard, this is all just trying to salvage something after that.

Releasing this just as Netanyahu is in the US and every single western news agency running this article in sync while sexual assault against Palestinian people remain unmentioned or vaguely hinted at with passive voices.

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ExtremeAcceptable289@reddit

I will still hold judgement until we get some form of comfirmation via 3rd party some day.

You'll never get that until Israel is destroyed because they won't let anyone in. Even the UN themselves werent allowed to verify the rapes.

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

Behold the virtuous Redditor: rape denial on behalf of Islamist terrorists.

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meister2983@reddit

I don't think it is genocide. Nor is the current IDF assault on Israel genocide. The word has gotten way overused.

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Naggins@reddit

I can appreciate the consistency.

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Morgn_Ladimore@reddit

Horrifying. There can be no excuse for what Hamas has done.

The report concludes by saying that justice is "essential not only for individual victims but for affirming broader principles: that sexual violence in conflict is a serious violation of international law, that perpetrators will be held accountable, and that the international community will not allow such crimes to be committed with impunity".

I wonder if this will also apply to Israel themselves, who it has been proven have also engaged in widespread sexual crimes against Palestinians. I don't really have high hopes considering the founder of this organisation called the UN's investigation into sexual violence committed by the IDF "further proof of the UN's anti-Israel bias".

And especially because earlier this year Israel themselves blocked a UN investigation into sexual crimes committed by Hamas, because it would also lead to an investigation into crimes committed by Israeli forces.

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outestiers@reddit

Quit the fake crying. None of this is true. We all know that already.

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

Rape denier GFY.

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TraditionalGap1@reddit

Who knew that a track record of dishonesty would become inconvenient?

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

The Dinah Project has a track record of dishonesty? Or are you just saying Israelis are liars?

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TraditionalGap1@reddit

Or are you just saying Israelis are liars?

When it comes to this conflict? Absolutely this

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

Thanks for revealing your bigotry. Mask off.

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TraditionalGap1@reddit

So when you cast doubt on the statements of Palestinian individuals and groups based on their purported track record that's what, prudent critical reading skill, but if anyone else does if it for Israeli individuals and groups it's just bigotry?

Very even handed and fair of you

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

I've never said I don't trust Palestinians in general. That's entirely you.

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TraditionalGap1@reddit

Of course, I never claimed not to trust Israelis in general either, but that hasn't stopped you.

I notice you still haven't actually replied or engaged with the 'quote' you demanded I provide. Are you ever going to get around to it, or were your demands just so much hot air?

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

You said you don't trust Israelis in general when it comes to this conflict. Embrace the bigotry, this sub is the perfect place for it.

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TraditionalGap1@reddit

I had assumed from your usage of the phrase 'in general' that you had some idea of what 'in general' means, and how it contrasts with 'when it comes to this conflict'.

Silly me

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

You don't believe any Israelis when it comes to this conflict, not just the Israeli government.

That's obviously bigoted, and if you don't see it, see if you think it's reasonable for me not to believe what any Palestinian says "when it comes to this conflict."

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TraditionalGap1@reddit

You don't believe any Israelis when it comes to this conflict, not just the Israeli government.

I'm glad to see 'Israeli individuals and groups' wasn't too subtle for you to pick up on. No sneaking anything past you, is there?

Still not sure if you know what 'in general' means though

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

If you're going to troll, you should at least be good at it. Please respond to my point. Do you think it's reasonable for me not to believe what any Palestinian says "when it comes to this conflict"?

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TraditionalGap1@reddit

The answer to that question would be 'yes', by the way

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

Well, at least you're a consistent bigot. Interesting you think none of the eyewitness accounts about the GHF shootings should be believed.

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TraditionalGap1@reddit

Presumably you believe all those eye-witness accounts, and all the eye-witness accounts of things like quadcopter drones taking out civilians and such. Eye-witness accounts of Israeli soldiers shooting civilians. etc etc

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

I don't dismiss them out of hand just because they're from Palestinians, no. Can you say the same?

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TraditionalGap1@reddit

I find it difficult to believe that you ascribe the same credibility to them as you do to the Israeli statements in question.

Let's take, for example, the case of Hind Rajab. Not only do we have the eye-witness statements from both her and her cousin specifically mentioning tanks near the car but also satellite imagery showing IDF armour near the shooting, forensic analysis of the gunfire from the audio and a tank shell sized hole in the ambulance sent to rescue them.

But no, they're wrong, and it was Islamic Jihad that pulled the trigger.

I find it interesting that you're so open to accepting the Israeli statements but unwilling to accept the Palestinian statements, despite a much larger stock of supporting evidence.

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

Islamic Jihad freely admitted they were targeting "Zionist vehicles" at the place and time she was killed. I believe Palestinians, you believe Palestinians.

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TraditionalGap1@reddit

I wasn't aware PIJ had tanks

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

There's a lot you're not aware of. Can you answer my question now? Do you dismiss statements out of hand just because they're from Palestinians?

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TraditionalGap1@reddit

But, presumably, not that PIJ has tanks.

So...

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

Do you dismiss statements out of hand just because they're from Palestinians?

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TraditionalGap1@reddit

It would be more accurate to say that I don't believe them out of hand.

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TraditionalGap1@reddit

Please respond to my point.

Sure, when you actually address the report quotes you so demanded I provide you

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modianoyyo@reddit

where are the pictures of beheaded babies?

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

Sorry, I don't provide jerk off material to pro-Hamas sadists.

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modianoyyo@reddit

so they're not real and never were, got it.

thanks.

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outestiers@reddit

The BBC supposedly has rules about "impartiality" but those rules never seem to stop them from printing Israeli propaganda as if it were fact. Got lo love state media!

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jonassalen@reddit

How does it fit the definition of Israeli propaganda?

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outestiers@reddit

It's bullshit. We've been here before. It was bullshit then and it's still bullshit now.

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Minimum-Enthusiasm14@reddit

What’s the proof that it’s not true?

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modianoyyo@reddit

the burden of proof is on the people claiming it is true.

and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

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BehemothDeTerre@reddit

Those are far from extraordinary claims.

Hamas_titties' double standards are on full display, however. You guys swallow Hamas propaganda uncritically every single day, but one factual report that goes against Hamas? That's got to be a lie, right?

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Minimum-Enthusiasm14@reddit

Look at the report then.

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shieeet@reddit

Yeah, I've read it. It's the same rehash of the already debunked "Screams Before Silence" report with the exact same debunked "sources". It still doesn't present evidence for a single rape during the October 7 attacks, but mostly repeats a bunch of hearsay.

Hell, while the new Israeli "report" mostly cites the already discredited UN report from march 4th 2024, the U.N. Special Rapporteur on violence against women and girls even made a new statement in response to this:

Reem Alsalem, the U.N. Special Rapporteur on violence against women and girls, said in a statement that she and fellow rapporteurs and experts emphasized that reports of such violence needed to be independently verified and investigated and perpetrators be held accountable.

She added that the U.N. special commission appointed to investigate "found patterns indicative of sexual violence against Israeli women at different locations. The Commission was also unable to independently verify specific allegations of sexual and gender-based violence due to Israel’s obstruction of its investigations."

"It is my understanding that neither the Commission nor any other independent human rights mechanism established that sexual or gender-based violence was committed against Israelis on or since the 7th of October as a systematic tool of war or as a tool of genocide," Alsalem wrote in the statement.

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Minimum-Enthusiasm14@reddit

What’s the proof that the sources are debunked and discredited?

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shieeet@reddit

Most of it is based on the Screams Before Silence-"documentary" which in turn was based on the previously debunked "Screams Without Words" investigation from the New York Times. You can read the Wikipedia above in all the ways those stories were either false, or heavily skewed, including falsely claiming that one of the victims family's said their daughter had been raped before they were killed, something the family they had to publicly renounce, saying the reporters manipulated them.

The investigation was so bad that it practically caused a minor rebellion inside the NYT, causing the editors to "clamp down on the leakers", and even more than 50 tenured journalism professors from top universities signed a protest-letter on how bad it was. Eventually, after public pressure the NY Times even cut ties with the investigations author.

So now, when the "Dinah Project" here again uses mostly the same horseshit sources as the "Screams Without Words" investigation, it's laughably embarrassing for anyone actually paying attention, and obviously amateurish at best, but more obviousy and likely intentional and repulsive rape-propaganda.

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Minimum-Enthusiasm14@reddit

Looking at their methodology section, it doesn’t look like they base their info on Screams Before Silence. So discarding the report based on that idea seems to be counter factual.

You might want to look at their methodology section before saying the whole report is garbage.

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shieeet@reddit

Oh, I've read the entire thing twice, and I found their methodology section particularly slimy. It's mostly gish-gallop buzzwords and claims about how "No source was accepted at face value," yet when reading their footnotes throughout the entire report, you immediately recognize a lot of the evidence is the exact same unreliable witnesses from Screams Before Silence, because that their source.

Like, why do you think every picture in the entire report (a whopping 21 pictures, excluding the cover) is literally a screenshot from Screams Before Silence? They've repackaged the exact same horseshit again and pretend it's something new.

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Minimum-Enthusiasm14@reddit

Twice even? Oh, I’m sure you did.

Do you think these experts don’t know what they’re doing? That they can’t judge accurately the validity of their sources?

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shieeet@reddit

I clearly think these people are neither experts nor that they can/or are willing to accurately judge the validity of any sources in this regard. I am explicitly calling them either clueless hacks or intentionally malicious spreaders of misinformation.

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Minimum-Enthusiasm14@reddit

What gives you reason to doubt their credentials? Can you show that they’re fakers? Do they have a history of being wrong that you’re aware of? Discrediting all of them with proof would be the best thing you could do to justify your accusations.

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shieeet@reddit

I have already done this several times in this thread already. Do better.

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Minimum-Enthusiasm14@reddit

You have not. You said the report wasn’t true. You haven’t shown evidence to suggest that the experts aren’t actually experts. You’ve done nothing to dispel the idea that they’re experts and by default know more than you on the subject.

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shieeet@reddit

I've clearly shown that they are using faulty sources and data, which mostly correlate with that dogshit Screams Before Silence "documentary" and also embarrassing misinterpretations of the UN Office of the SRSG-SVC March 4, 2024 report. Not only have they already proven themselves to be charlatans and not "experts," but you are making the most baseline appeal to authority fallacy here.

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Minimum-Enthusiasm14@reddit

You think they’re faulty sources. However, in the expert opinions of the creators of that report, they clearly think that the sources are just fine. Might I remind you, you also called the experts who wrote the report hacks and can’t accurately judge the validity of sources. You made those claims without any proof, hence why I’m asking you to provide some proof.

They are accredited experts. You are not. You are making the claim they shouldn’t be considered experts. Show why they shouldn’t. Is this report the ONLY thing you can use?

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shieeet@reddit

-Starter of this thread: the burden of proof is on the people claiming it is true. and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

-You: Look at the report then!

-Me: Oh i did, it's based on debunked sources.

-You: What’s the proof that the sources are debunked and discredited?!

-Me: Here and here, it was even an scandal at the NYT.

-You: Look at their methodology section! They don't mention Screams Before Silence by name there specifically!!

-Me: No, but they use the exact same sources as Screams Before Silence, as evidenced in their fotnotes, not to mention that literally every photo in the entire report other than the cover is a screenshot from Screams Before Silence.

-You: But.. but they are experts 😭!! Don't look at the evidence, instead take them at their word because they are experts!

-Me: Clearly they are not, since they use faulty sources, as previously shown.

-You: Prove that they aren't experts!! Disprove their credentials! Show they have a history of being wrong!!

-Me: But.. i just did..

-You: yOu hAvEn’t sHoWn eViDeNcE To sUgGeSt tHaT ThE ExPeRtS ArEn’t aCtUaLlY ExPeRtS 🤪??

-Me: lol goodbye 🙋‍♂️

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Minimum-Enthusiasm14@reddit

Everyone’s a hero in their own heads, I guess.

[-]

shieeet@reddit

PrOvE To mE ThAt i aM HeRo iN My oWn hEaD, yOu hAvEn't pRoVeN ThIs, AsK ThE ExPeRtS!! 🤪🤪🤪

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Minimum-Enthusiasm14@reddit

Lol. Your fictional writing is wasted on me, I’m afraid, but you ought to look for an audience that will appreciate it.

[-]

shieeet@reddit

PrOvE To mE ThAt tHiS Is fIcTiOnAl wRiTiNg, YoU HaVeNt!! iS ThErE AnY ExPeRtS ThAt cAn cOlLaBoRaTe tHiS 🤪??

[-]

Minimum-Enthusiasm14@reddit

And there you go again. Another waste, I’m sad to say.

[-]

shieeet@reddit

👍

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Minimum-Enthusiasm14@reddit

Glad to see you’re now trying to apply your efforts elsewhere. Make sure to send me a copy of your first book. I’m sure it’ll be very entertaining.

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shieeet@reddit

iF I WrItE A BoOk, DoEs tHaT MaKe mE An eXpErT 🤪?

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Minimum-Enthusiasm14@reddit

Oh no, you’ve regressed. Come on, buddy. I know you can do better.

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modianoyyo@reddit

i have. how do you extrapolate the experience of one survivor of "attempted rape" to hamas using rape as a "genocidal strategy".

from what i see in the report, there is no new information that was already available in relation to sexual violence committed on october 7th and afterwards. the only thing that this report does is re-categorize some sources as more or less reliable.

so we've been here before, but this is just a fresh coat of paint on something which was bullshit before. hamas was not using rape as a weapon on october the 7th (which doesn't mean that sexual assault happened or could have happened).

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Minimum-Enthusiasm14@reddit

So the material evidence showing sexual violence and rape just doesn’t count for you?

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modianoyyo@reddit

what is the material evidence? the report doesn't include the words of any victims of rape.

this is why nobody takes this seriously. you haven't read the report.

the "tier 1" source of information comes from someone who claims she got almost raped. i actually believe her statement that she got almost raped, though one could ask some questions as to what exactly happened. but jumping from someone "almost getting raped" to "hamas willingly use rape as a strategic weapon" there's quite a stretch.

i don't believe the "earwitnesses" because that's a bit absurd, though.

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Minimum-Enthusiasm14@reddit

So what about all the people tied to trees with their genitals shot and mutilated? It’s funny. You guys seem to convinced that there was no rape, when more than likely the vast majority that were raped were killed right after, that you just ignore all the sexual violence that is literally just as bad.

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outestiers@reddit

What's the proof that it's true?

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Minimum-Enthusiasm14@reddit

Presumably the report the group made that made these accusations.

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outestiers@reddit

Anyone can write a report.

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Minimum-Enthusiasm14@reddit

Well sure, but not everyone is part “an all-women group of Israeli legal and gender experts”. You do realize that experts on a subject are more likely to know what they’re talking about than random people on the internet, right?

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outestiers@reddit

I see they're "expert" so whatever bs propaganda they try to push must be true. Thanks for the tip!

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Minimum-Enthusiasm14@reddit

What’s your proof that it’s propaganda and not true?

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outestiers@reddit

What's your proof that it's true? And do you get paid to troll this sub for Israel?

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Minimum-Enthusiasm14@reddit

Here’s the report. https://thedinahproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/The-Dinah-Project-full-report-A4-pages_web.pdf

You are making the claim that it’s untrue, one way or another. What’s your evidence to back up this claim?

[-]

outestiers@reddit

So how much do you get for trolling this sub in defence of Israel? Do you get paid per comment? Or by the hour?

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Minimum-Enthusiasm14@reddit

I didn’t realize asking people to back up their claims with evidence was trolling these days. You guys really are sad.

And I’m guessing since you’re now completely adopting the trolling claim, you don’t have any evidence?

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outestiers@reddit

Answer the question. How much do you get paid?

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Minimum-Enthusiasm14@reddit

So you don’t have any evidence. Yeah, I figured you didn’t have any actual reason to be skeptical. Glad we got to the bottom of that pretty quick.

[-]

FudgeAtron@reddit

Anyone can write a comment. Prove your comment is real.

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themightycatp00@reddit

Anyone can write a report.

If that's true then you can say that about pro Palestinian reports too, and it would actually have merit since there are multiple reported "massacres" that were either exaggerated or never happened at all

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outestiers@reddit

Lol are you trying to pretend that you would believe a report written by Hamas? Please!

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themightycatp00@reddit

Lol are you trying to pretend that you would believe a report written by Hamas? Please!

Every big media outlet and the UN still regurgitates the death figures hamas' health ministry provides despite the facts that 1) the figures doesn't differentiates between combatants and civilians 2) it's validity was questioned by multiple statisticians, which led to 3) it was revised multiple times

Beside that there was the incident where a hamas rocket hit a hospital which hamas blamed Israel for and every news outlet believed until it was disprove, and more recently an incident claiming Israel was killing people waiting for food which was immediately published by all news sources with zero attempt to authenticate and only after receiving public outlash the news found the claim is based on a video filmed somewhere else at a different time

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jonassalen@reddit

There is no need to question the independent reports on this matter. They are documented and even if 50% is untrue or biased, the sexual attacks still happened and should be critisized by us all.
Even if you can claim the reports are false, BBC is simply reporting about these reports. They're journalists bringing the fact that Israeli experts say that there was sexual violence.
I agree that BBC underreports about the suffering of Palestinians. But that shouldn't mean they shouldn't report about Hamas attacks either. We should strive for better reporting about Gaza instead.

Bottom line: if you question independent reports about the Hamas attacks, you also underminde the indepent reports about the IDF atrocities. Don't do that.

For context: I went to almost every pro-Palestinian demonstration there is in Belgium. I'm wearing pins, there is a Palestinian flag on my house and I'm active in my local group that organises events to help Palestinians. I also gave at least 500 euro this year to UNWRA.

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BehemothDeTerre@reddit

It doesn't stop them from printing Hamas propaganda as fact, you mean.
How many BBC articles just relay Hamas info as fact?

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mahemahe0107@reddit

BBC is more impartial than whatever you’re consuming Abdul.

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

As opposed to the Hamas propaganda it regurgitates on a daily basis?

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ElasticCrow393@reddit

the testimony of Raz Cohen the testimony of Yuval Sharvit Trabelsi, the testimony of Karina Ariev, of Dafna Elyakim

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SpontaneousFlame@reddit

This is… Odd.

It lays out what the group describes as "a legal blueprint for prosecuting these crimes, even when direct attribution to individual perpetrators is impossible".

The report - which does not identify the victims but cites reports that do name some of them…

So you don’t know who victims were, you don’t know who the perpetrators were, but you’re going to prosecute anyway?

…”first global legal blueprint explaining how to prosecute… even when evidence is messy, survivors are gone, and individual perpetrators can't be tied to individual acts"… even when an individual did not personally commit each specific act or were not aware of its commission by someone else.

In other words, by throwing out every legal and human rights principle established over centuries since the Magna Carta and deciding that Israel can prosecute people for crimes others committed independently…

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meister2983@reddit

Yeah I agree the whole legal argument makes no sense. Most of the Gazan invaders were killed by Oct 9. Plenty more were killed during this war. Realistically 90% are dead. No need to worry about the last 10% - deterrence had been achieved

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SpontaneousFlame@reddit

It only makes sense if you need to continue the genocide that Israel’s simps deny is happening.

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shugthedug3@reddit

Oh well if Israeli experts say it then it must be true.

Reminder that this is the BBC that Israel's government believes is antisemitic... this kind of garbage flows from them on a daily basis.

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jadedflames@reddit

That’s fucked up, but it’s also a bit “pot calling the kettle black.”

A reminder that a UN investigation reported that "The frequency, prevalence and severity of sexual and gender-based crimes perpetrated against Palestinians since 7 October across the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT) indicate that specific forms of Sexual and gender-based violence (SGBV) are part of Israeli Security Forces (ISF) operating procedures."

Anyone who commits or sanctions sexual violence as part of a war needs to be removed from existence. No taking “sides” in that statement either.

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Theamazingquinn@reddit

The report also says that "most victims were permanently silenced", because they were either killed on 7 October or left too traumatised to talk.

In response, the authors provide what they describe as the "first global legal blueprint explaining how to prosecute sexual violence as a weapon of war - even when evidence is messy, survivors are gone, and individual perpetrators can't be tied to individual acts".

That includes an evidentiary framework to categorise information based on its proximity to incidents and its evidentiary value, and a legal framework for establishing criminal responsibility for atrocities committed during mass attacks, even when an individual did not personally commit each specific act or were not aware of its commission by someone else.

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outestiers@reddit

The BBC supposedly has rules about "impartiality" but those rules never seem to stop them from printing Israeli propaganda as if it were fact. Got lo live state media!

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empleadoEstatalBot@reddit

Hamas used sexual violence as part of 'genocidal strategy', Israeli experts say

23 hours ago

David Gritten

BBC News

EPA File photo showing people visiting the memorial site for the victims of the 7 October 2023 attack on the Nova music festival, near Kibbutz Re'im, southern Israel (6 October 2024)EPA

Many of the reported cases of sexual violence on 7 October 2023 happened at the Nova music festival

Hamas used sexual violence as "part of a deliberate genocidal strategy" during the 7 October 2023 attack on Israel, an all-women group of Israeli legal and gender experts allege in a new report calling for justice.

The Dinah Project says the report is based on a review of evidence including first-hand testimony from a survivor of an attempted rape and 15 former hostages held in Gaza, as well as accounts from witnesses to sexual assaults.

It lays out what the group describes as "a legal blueprint for prosecuting these crimes, even when direct attribution to individual perpetrators is impossible".

Hamas has denied its forces committed sexual violence against women or mistreated female hostages.

However, a UN mission concluded in March 2024 that there were "reasonable grounds" to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred during the 7 October attack in multiple locations, including rape and gang rape, and that there was "convincing information" that hostages had been subjected to sexual violence, including rape and sexualised torture.

And before they were assassinated by Israel, three top Hamas leaders were also accused by the International Criminal Court's prosecutor of the crimes against humanity of rape and other forms of sexual violence, in addition to murder, extermination and torture.

On 7 October, hundreds of members of Hamas and allied Palestinian armed groups attacked southern Israel, where they killed about 1,200 people and took 251 others hostage.

Israel responded by launching a military campaign in Gaza, during which more than 57,500 people have been killed, according to the territory's Hamas-run health ministry.

Warning: Contains graphic descriptions of rape and sexual violence

The Dinah Project was launched after 7 October to pursue justice for victims of sexual violence. It was founded by legal scholar Ruth Halperin-Kaddar, lawyer and former chief military prosecutor Sharon Zagagi-Pinhas, and former judge and deputy attorney general Nava Ben-Or.

It says that the report, which was published on Tuesday, "establishes that Hamas used sexual violence as a tactical weapon, as part of a genocidal scheme and with the goal of terrorizing and dehumanizing Israeli society".

It also "creates a pathway to justice for victims of the 7 October attack and potentially for victims in other conflict zones", according to the group.

The authors say they reviewed a large volume of sources, ranging from social media posts to recorded testimony, as well as forensic evidence and visual and audio evidence.

The report - which does not identify the victims but cites reports that do name some of them - says a female survivor of the attack on the Nova music festival on 7 October told members of the Dinah Project that she was subjected to an attempted rape and sexual assault.

According to the report, one of the 15 former hostages said she was forced to perform a sexual act, which was preceded by sexual abuse and verbal and physical sexual harassment. She also said she endured forced nudity - an experience which was reported by six other hostages as well.

Almost all of the hostages reported verbal and some physical harassment, including "unwanted physical contact in private parts", the report says, while six said they also faced threats of forced marriage.

Two men among the hostages said they were subjected to forced nudity and physical abuse when naked, with one also recounting the shaving of all his body hair, according to the report.

The Dinah Project says the accounts from people who saw or heard incidents of sexual violence showed that such crimes were "widespread and systematic" on 7 October.

According to the report, five witnesses reported at least four separate cases of gang rape; seven reported at least eight other separate cases of rape or severe sexual assaults, some of them in captivity; five reported at least three separate cases of sexual assaults, some in captivity; and three reported three separate cases of mutilation.

Nine of those cases related to the Nova music festival, two to the Nahal Oz military base, one to the Route 232 road, and four to incidents occurring in captivity in Gaza, the report says.

Twenty-seven first responders meanwhile described dozens of cases which showed "clear signs of sexual violence across six locations", the report says - the Nova festival, Route 232, and the kibbutzim of Be'eri, Alumim, Nahal Oz and Re'im.

The report also says that "most victims were permanently silenced", because they were either killed on 7 October or left too traumatised to talk.

In response, the authors provide what they describe as the "first global legal blueprint explaining how to prosecute sexual violence as a weapon of war - even when evidence is messy, survivors are gone, and individual perpetrators can't be tied to individual acts".

That includes an evidentiary framework to categorise information based on its proximity to incidents and its evidentiary value, and a legal framework for establishing criminal responsibility for atrocities committed during mass attacks, even when an individual did not personally commit each specific act or were not aware of its commission by someone else.

The report concludes by saying that justice is "essential not only for individual victims but for affirming broader principles: that sexual violence in conflict is a serious violation of international law, that perpetrators will be held accountable, and that the international community will not allow such crimes to be committed with impunity".

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