Stay an FO or upgrade?
Posted by nathane37@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 35 comments
In between a rock and a hard place at the moment and just looking to get various opinions on the topic:
Currently an FO with around 1,150 SIC time at a regional. I am at a smaller base where I love to live, am high seniority (bidding around 10-15%), get the trips I want, and overall am happy with/can live off the FO pay.
With how the Majors/Southwest have slowed hiring, it’s safe to assume they’re going to be more competitive when hiring starts again, looking for PIC time instead of just hiring anyone and everyone. I put in an upgrade bid at my base, as well as another large airport hub within an hour and half drive. This was done about 2 months ago. I told myself I would not commute, but accept the fact I may have to suck it up. My base is more senior at the moment and the upgrade time could be 4 months, to 2 years for all I know. The base in particular that I would have no issue receiving an upgrade class in is ORD. There’s only 3 one-way flights from my base a day to ORD, where the close major to me having constant flights everyday, so I could just drive there and catch a flight for the commute.
There are multiple other factors such as girlfriend and having to move to new rental property, but the main one is international travel: I want to have the seniority to travel with week/weekends off at time. If I upgrade, this will become quite the hinderance. My question is what would you personally do? Continue with seniority, enjoy your own schedule, travel, less pay, no PIC time, OR upgrade to gain PIC time, make a decent amount more, have absolutely no seniority/bad schedules, and commute? Ideally, I’d like to be with the Majors/Southwest within the next 2-4 years and I do plan on upgrading within the next year at MAX if I still haven’t gotten an upgrade class at either preferred airports.
Thanks for the long read, any feedback would be much appreciated.
browncoat_pilot@reddit
I would have a conversation with your GF. If you guys are serious then she should have some input. I’m kinda in the same boat as you, but flying corporate. Schedule is great, don’t really work weekends or holidays, pay is enough to cover my bills and have some left over. I gave up chasing the money and focused on what would be better for my time with family. So, in my opinion, I’d sit where you are and enjoy the good schedule. Commuting and having a crap schedule are the worse; and if nothing is moving you could be stuck doing it for longer than planned which could put strain on your relationship and love of the job. Just wait it out for a little bit. Once things start moving again you can upgrade and hopefully it will only suck for a little bit. Might push back your goal of reaching a majors a little bit, but in the long run it won’t really matter.
Good luck
21MPH21@reddit
I wouldn't put too much value on what a GF or BF says. They're not a spouse or even a fiance. Ask your parents and family what they think.
Personally, I'd get TPIC ASAP
Ashamed-Charge5309@reddit
Come again?
bamfcoco1@reddit
Flair checks…
This is not just a career, it’s an entire lifestyle. (Not like “it’s a whole lifestyle broooo” - no, it requires total commitment and sacrifice on the part of all parties involved in your life) and If you are going to commit to it, unfortunately your significant other is going to also commit to it or they aren’t. That’s a decision they are going to make. The push to make aviation a career comes with huge sacrifices and once you’ve decided to dump a metric fuck ton of money to do so, a BF/GF relationship is secondary.
I get from the outside this seems like an asshole thing to say, but the career trumps a casual dating relationship. If you are in a long term commitment with someone then the decision to enter aviation is made together before you embark on the journey. If you’re just dating, and you are putting a casual relationship over breaking into the industry you’re probably going to have a really bad time. It just is what it is.
21MPH21@reddit
Awe, that's cute.
"But, Mom, she's the one"
Sorry to break it to ya but, GFs and BFs come and go. Basing life decisions off their needs is almost always a mistake.
mitch_kramer@reddit
If you want to get out of a regional then you need to upgrade. No one is getting hired without PIC time for the foreseeable future. You need to look at the long term and embrace the shitty part now. You're only kicking the shitty can down the road by waiting. You'll have to do it eventually. You have plenty of life left for international travel. I wouldn't give up career progression for it.
I am a little confused about the way you worded you post on where the bases are, but an hour and a half drive is honestly a really good commute all things considered. I wouldn't even think about hopping on a plane if my drive was an hour and a half. I drive three hours to get to base and it doesn't bother me at all. An hour and a half drive is way less time than you would waste commuting.
Cdraw51@reddit
Yeah I basically said the same thing in my reply. OP could have definitely worded his post a lot better lol
nathane37@reddit (OP)
Hey guys, sorry for the confusion. The base I am living near is senior for upgrade. Only has 3 flights to ORD a day. The major hub 1.5 hours away is also very senior. This major has multiple flights to ORD. ORD is the base I would most likely be awarded for upgrade.
licensemeow@reddit
I've always moved to base. It vastly changes the job. Even a short commute sucks. I'm 5 yrs younger than a captain I used to buddy bid at my regional and he's all grays... almost always commuted. Great guy, but stress shows.
Cdraw51@reddit
I see, so you'd most likely be driving an hour and a half to this other hub to then hop on a flight to commute to ORD (provided you couldn't get on a flight out of the airport you live closer to). That does complicate things a little, but still doable.
hoges@reddit
There is plenty of comments here about lifestyle etc. One thing that I think many people don't consider is job satisfaction and professional pride.
I enjoy my job much more from the left hand seat, managing that day and signing off knowing you were ultimately responsible comes with a satisfaction that the right hand seat can never offer.
Long term FO's who say they don't want the extra responsibility that the upgrade brings are missing a big part of what makes our job satisfying. You might not see the left again for a very long term once you go to the majors, so go and enjoy it now
Prof_Slappopotamus@reddit
You're a regional FO. Unless you have something completely unmissable planned in the next few months, take the upgrade.
Raccoon_Ratatouille@reddit
Do you want to get hired by a legacy or not?
You surely understand the career consequences of getting a seniority number 6 months to 6 years later right? Haven’t you seen lifer captains at your regional who got caught in the same seniority trap at the regionals? How many millions more dollars would they make and also have great seniority if they left 4 years ago after COVID ended?
Your plan is to do the bare minimum and hope that hiring mins lower to get you over the bar instead of improving your resume and outcompeting the thousands of pilots whose apps are fighting for an interview and CJO. 100% upgrade ASAP. You’ll still have time to travel and see the girl.
ITalkAboutFight-Club@reddit
Definitely upgrade. The QOL will come at the majors and the sooner you start getting that seniority at the majors the better. You’ll be more desirable with that TPIC. Would do that and worry about time off when you make more to work less.
ce402@reddit
You can worry about QOL when you’re at your destination airline.
Suck it up now and make yourself competitive for the next step. Every month you delay upgrade is a month of seniority lost at your forever airline.
It’s a lot easier to be junior when you’re younger. It’s easy to get comfortable being the proverbial big fish in the small pond. That’s why so many guys rode ComAir, TSA, Compass, ExpressJet, and Air Wisconsin into the ground.
Don’t get comfortable being senior in a junior position until you’re somewhere that sells their own tickets and is dropping 18% into your 401k
Corporal_Clegg-@reddit
OP please listen to this. The regionals is not the time to try to max out QOL. Unless you’re like 55 a few trips to Europe and weekends off for a couple years aren’t worth sacrificing the insane difference in qol (and money, not for nothing) you’ll have over the remaining decades of your career if you can get to a legacy faster.
LikenSlayer@reddit
Just know that once you get to Legacy Airlines, you get paid more to work less. I've flown with plenty F.O. that have 10 years on me at my current airline. I've been sitting left on 787 for a bit. And the F.O's that have years on me choose not to upgrade because their life structure is better and dont want thay little extra responsibility.
I say upgrade now, get to Majors, then coast the rest of your days as an F.O.
nathane37@reddit (OP)
Well said, thanks for the advice man!
Cdraw51@reddit
That's my plan, if I make it to the majors. I currently have no desire to be a captain at a legacy/major. I personally will only upgrade at a regional because it's a necessity.
LikenSlayer@reddit
Yeah I was in same boat. Was forced to upgrade at regional. Guess they found out I was enjoying easy life too much..😆
Cdraw51@reddit
"He's having too much fun! Get him!"
80KnotsV1Rotate@reddit
You want to live the spoiled FO life and have all your weekends off and travel, then expect to be I. The same position 3 years from now. It’s all well and good when you’re in it, but if your goal is to leave the regionals, you need to be putting in the work now. That means TPIC and any extras you can tack onto your resume. The quicker you upgrade the quicker you can check the PIC box and elevate yourself to the most of your competitions level.
554TangoAlpha@reddit
Upgrade, embrace the suck, bite the bullet whatever you wanna call it. You gotta put in the work to get to the majors. Enjoy the extra $ though. Everything is better at the majors do whatever hustle you gotta do to get there.
grumpycfi@reddit
And I just wanna throw something else in here for OP.
The training programs at the majors, especially the legacies, are set up with an assumption you have PIC time. Training will be vastly more enjoyable and easier if you've had some time in the left seat.
MehCFI@reddit
I’ll be starting major training soon with only 135 SIC experience. Any advice?
grumpycfi@reddit
Don't try to outsmart the training and don't try to outsmart the operation. Do it how you're told. When I hear about or see people who have major training issues it's almost entirely because they can't just chill the fuck out and be a cog in the machine. You aren't special and no one wants you to be. It's the easier job and easiest training in the world if you let it be.
Show up and comply.
MehCFI@reddit
Sounds great, I’m perfectly happy not being special lol.
PM_ME_YOUR_FOQA@reddit
Upgrade. If you're trying to move on - always upgrade. Once you're where you wanna be - you have the luxury to be picky.
Cdraw51@reddit
Right. There's a lot of guys at the legacy airlines who park it there as an FO for their entire career and still clear a very nice paycheck.
PM_ME_YOUR_FOQA@reddit
A lot of guys clear more than NB CAs too.
prex10@reddit
You're not going anywhere without TPIC
Passer2300@reddit
Had the same thoughts for a while now. Upgrading next month and made the decision to move in base to accept the suck. Bottom line is accepting the suck qol now will pay off later with good experience.
Cdraw51@reddit
I can't really give an educated opinion on the other stuff, but an hour and a half drive isn't exactly the worst thing in the world. It ain't great, not saying it is, but there's pilots out there driving a lot further than that.
That being said, I think you might have to forgo the international travel for a little while unfortunately. If you want to go to the majors as you said, I think it would be better to upgrade sooner rather than later. I wouldn't drag it out if I were you (not saying you are, just a warning).
I guess I'm also a little confused by the wording of your post. Sounds like there's three bases in total that you're going to try to upgrade at: the base you're at now, the base an hour and a half drive away from you, and Chicago, correct?
CaptainsPrerogative@reddit
If you want to eventually go to a major airline, you will need the 121 PIC time. So, upgrade, and hope you can shift to a favorable base as a Captain fairly soon.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
In between a rock and a hard place at the moment and just looking to get various opinions on the topic:
Currently an FO with around 1,150 SIC time at a regional. I am at a smaller base where I love to live, am high seniority (bidding around 10-15%), get the trips I want, and overall am happy with/can live off the FO pay.
With how the Majors/Southwest have slowed hiring, it’s safe to assume they’re going to be more competitive when hiring starts again, looking for PIC time instead of just hiring anyone and everyone. I put in an upgrade bid at my base, as well as another large airport hub within an hour and half drive. This was done about 2 months ago. I told myself I would not commute, but accept the fact I may have to suck it up. My base is more senior at the moment and the upgrade time could be 4 months, to 2 years for all I know. The base in particular that I would have no issue receiving an upgrade class in is ORD. There’s only 3 one-way flights from my base a day to ORD, where the close major to me having constant flights everyday, so I could just drive there and catch a flight for the commute.
There are multiple other factors such as girlfriend and having to move to new rental property, but the main one is international travel: I want to have the seniority to travel with week/weekends off at time. If I upgrade, this will become quite the hinderance. My question is what would you personally do? Continue with seniority, enjoy your own schedule, travel, less pay, no PIC time, OR upgrade to gain PIC time, make a decent amount more, have absolutely no seniority/bad schedules, and commute? Ideally, I’d like to be with the Majors/Southwest within the next 2-4 years and I do plan on upgrading within the next year at MAX if I still haven’t gotten an upgrade class at either preferred airports.
Thanks for the long read, any feedback would be much appreciated.
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