Decompression needle pens IFAK
Posted by New-Temperature-4067@reddit | preppers | View on Reddit | 30 comments
Do you guys carry decompression needles in your IFAK and why(not).
Also list any must haves for your ifak kit. Im putting together a sensible trauma kit that actually contains stuff you'd need in an emergency.
SpaceKalash05@reddit
Do I have one in my kit? Yes. Will I ever use it? No. Mind you, the only reason it's in my kit is because it came with my kit. Do I know how to use one? Sure. Is there any real reason I'd use it as opposed to just putting the person in an ambulance and sending them to a hospital for the surgical solution they'll need? Absolutely not.
New-Temperature-4067@reddit (OP)
Fair advice
PineSoul603@reddit
I keep them, but for others who are trained to use them before an ambulance arrives. That's above my skill level and license level and is not one of those things you should be attempting after watching a video or two.
Ryan_e3p@reddit
You break one of those out and use them on a stranger, you are absolutely opening yourself up for a lawsuit. You are no longer a "good Samaritan" helping someone out; you are moving to the role of 'caregiver'. A good rule of thumb is that the moment you start inserting needles into people, any protections that Good Samaritan Laws provide ends. There's a big difference between breaking into a house on fire to rescue a person trapped inside, or smashing a window to extract them from a vehicle, versus performing invasive medical procedures. All it takes is having shaking hands and to be off by an inch, and you end up piercing someone's heart and making a bad situation far, far worse.
Leave that to people who are trained professionals who undergo routine refresher courses. Don't try to play "field medic" unless you're prepared to deal with the consequences.
TonnyC2@reddit
I think that highly depends on the country you are in. I believe that any anything you can do to save a life, you should do, but I also understand that in some countries you could have different views on that.
agent_flounder@reddit
Totally agree on all counts.
In my first aid class (USA) they taught us to only perform whatever tasks we actually trained for.
I have no idea what a decompression whatzit is or how to use it so I wouldn't touch it.
Similarly, if I didn't know how to apply a splint I wouldn't do that either.
If someone wanted to be more helpful could they take emt training? I really don't know.
DaleSveum@reddit
Out of curiosity, does that apply to Epi Pens?
Ryan_e3p@reddit
Generally speaking, that does appear to be an exception!
Can I be Sued if I Administer Epinephrine to a Stranger?
Good Samaritan Law for EpiPen Use in Pennsylvania - LegalClarity (for PA specifically, but Good Samaritan Laws more or less align from state to state)
reduhl@reddit
Epi Pen is applied to the outer thigh with a wide margin for error and no critical systems in that area. As a possible jury member I’d see that as radically different than needs in chests.
nanneryeeter@reddit
I don't.
I have no training with how to use one.
suzaii@reddit
Same. If we are being honest, I don't even know what that is 🤔.
nanneryeeter@reddit
Iirc they use them to correct something like a collapsed lung.
I carry the things I've learned to use at stopthebleed.
I've seen what people who are clueless about machinery do when they start poking around with tools. I'm not about to become the medical equivalent of such.
gadget850@reddit
I have been considering it, as one of our Scouts has had a collapsed lung twice. Looking into it, I need training.
flying_wrenches@reddit
It requires significant training. My state requires paramedic and higher. That’s a ton of training.
757to626@reddit
And you can't just willy nilly use them as an officer duty Paramedic either lol.
flying_wrenches@reddit
State dependent of course, but the example I was taught took “scope of practice” into account.
Paramedics are taught and authorized NCDs. They’re within the scope of their training. But if I did one? As not a paramedic?
That’s outside of my scope of practice and negligence. Even if it works even if they’re dying.
757to626@reddit
Yup. I can give plenty of medications and do IVs as an Advanced EMT. Even then, I'd probably get crushed by the state for doing anything outside BLS care regardless of scope.
flying_wrenches@reddit
Fair enough my man.
757to626@reddit
I have a few because they were in an old CLS kit I had. Never plan on using them. I'm a medical professional and they're rarely even used in the field.
YYCADM21@reddit
no. No. Unless you're a certified & current Paramedic, or a licensed physician, an invasive procedure like that could, first and foremost, cause much more harm than good. I do not believe that merely being trained in their use is adequate, without the broader scope of knowledge a certified & current Paramedic or Physician has.
Being willing to act in the role of "Good Samaritan" is something everyone should strive for, since many people are simply not willing, whether capable or not. Recognizing where that willingness starts and ends is critical
ConflagWex@reddit
If you're trained on how and when to use it, I would include a decompression needle since it doesn't take up much room. Just remember that needles are a temporary solution to keep someone alive until they can get to a hospital and get either surgery or a larger chest tube. Some people might make a full recovery with just a needle but I wouldn't count on it.
If you're not trained I wouldn't take one. It could cause more harm if used incorrectly, and they are small enough that most first responders that have the necessary training would probably have one.
Timlugia@reddit
I carry a scalpel, but I am a critical care paramedic in a very progressive system. And the only time I would consider using one is on my own family whom I am willing to risk my license for.
One_Half226@reddit
Worked on an ambulance in inner city where gun and knife violence is high as well as highways for accidents and never once used a decompression needle.
In fact it was one of the items in our bags that heavily expired before use along with a handful of other items that never got used, like the OB kit.
Particular-Try5584@reddit
I only carry what I have training and confidence and experience in using.
I carry other stuff when I am travelling and unsure about hygiene in the locations I am heading to.
Which camp does a chest needle fit for you?
New-Temperature-4067@reddit (OP)
Well, its for my plate carrier kit. Lvl 4 plates, sp mags 556x45 etc. I wish to leave that kit unused but IF i have to wear it i want it to contain what i need.
G_roundC_offee@reddit
Make sure it’s the 3.25” in needle. A lot of ready made ifaks come with a 3”. This is coming from someone a hell of a lot smarter than me. But yeah you really gotta be sure you know what you’re doing
BodaciousDadBod@reddit
I do. But I actually have training to use them. I think for most people they will be useless. It's a very narrow indication (tension pneumothorax), that most people probably won't accurately diagnose in the field. And even an 8 cm long angiocath needle only has about a 50% success rate in actually entering the plural space to evacuate that air. That being said, if someone is in extremis, then it's probably worth putting a needle in their chest if help is not close by and you have nothing else you can do.
flying_wrenches@reddit
Much like IVs, there is 0 reason for me to carry one.
bikumz@reddit
I carry them. I am not comfortable using them even though I’ve been taught how to use them. I carry them Incase someone is ready to use them that I am with.
New-Temperature-4067@reddit (OP)
Im thinking the same actually..