Is this typical for a PPL Checkride??
Posted by SunAcceptable4019@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 38 comments
So as I’m nearing the end of my PPL course, I got scheduled for my check ride towards the middle or end of June, I went with a fairly easy-going DPE, but still got a unsatisfactory in the oral(my fault entirely, I was super nervous and got mixed up on a few airspace items). So after the check ride failure, I did multiple grounds studied up and did multiple mock orals with three different instructors at my school who all thought I was well beyond prepared. So I get scheduled with the only available DPE my school has and I have not heard good things about him and that he was super hard and very thorough, so with no other choice I scheduled with him for July 3. The day of the check ride I show up to my school at 7AM and get everything prepared in the room and he shows up at 8:30AM to then sit there from 8:30AM to 10:30AM going through my paperwork and logbook and everything else and then finally we start the oral portion of the check ride shortly after 10:30AM. He starts off by looking at my weight and balance and had issues with it only being for him and I and wanted me to add an extra person and an X amount of weight for baggage, so I do everything as requested subtract some fuel so we’re not over max weight and that all went well. He then looks at my Nav log and was upset that I had roads and other visual reference points as my way points for a VFR flight plan….. yes, you read that correctly. He was upset that I did not use a federal airway that was basically going from our departure to arrival airport, from my understanding when you go on a VFR cross country flight you plan your way points visually so you can see them in flight, but apparently that was wrong and he said that needed major work. Then he starts asking me various questions and I’m able to answer everything with ease and that continued for about five hours of nonstop questioning….. We then got to the end and he started asking me some different scenario based questions and by then I was so mentally exhausted after being there for a total of seven hours and being asked questions for five hours that I slipped up on one of the airspace equipment requirements and he told me that he was gonna have to fail me because I got the answer right earlier on but then gave him the wrong answer there. Is it typical for a PPL check ride oral to go for five hours of questioning, in total seven or eight hours from him getting there in the room to start?
NYPuppers@reddit
5 hours+ of questioning is crazy. I would probably have asked to pause for a bathroom break at hour 4 and called the FSDO.
That all said, I think its really weird though to rush to do a new oral after a failure. 2 weeks seems a bit fast, and you were kind of dooming yourself:
Oral exams are holistic. DPEs are not failing you if you get 99% right on an oral but missed one memory item under 91.205. It almost always means there are large knowledge gaps. And large knowledge gaps cant be cured overnight like a single bad maneuver. They require heads down studying, writing/repeating flashcards, extra ground school with an instructor, etc. Anyways, point is, dont rush orals.
sjr930@reddit
The whole dpe system is a freaking joke major faa reform is needed
BillySpacs@reddit
What do you propose instead? (I agree with you, just curious what your thoughts are)
democracyisgoodtbh@reddit
What it used to be, and still kinda is but they dont staff properly.
Checkrides done, for free, by the FSDO
BillySpacs@reddit
You had me at free
TheKgbWillWaitForNo1@reddit
Are you sure you didnt sign up for an atp or cfi checkride on accident lol?
Ambitious-Isopod1049@reddit
I was thinking the same 😁
youngbus1141@reddit
I wonder how the DPE would describe this experience.
StoutFlier@reddit
Was this in South Florida, by any chance?
SunAcceptable4019@reddit (OP)
North Florida
StoutFlier@reddit
These frigging Florida DPEs are out of control. They are borderline extortionists that have zero oversight.
shadyshackk@reddit
Bob burnet?
TxAggieMike@reddit
What was going on that made logbook review and exam start take 2 hours?
Logbook done proper, that should be easily done in 10 minutes or less.
SunAcceptable4019@reddit (OP)
He literally just wasn’t reading anything in my logbook and didn’t know where half of my endorsements were….. They were in the endorsement section of the logbook lol. He then wanted to make copies of every single thing so that took a while as well. And then everything that he had to pull up on the computer was taking long as well. Everything was squared away in my logbook.
bhalter80@reddit
Was he Moses' DPE?
SunAcceptable4019@reddit (OP)
He got his PPL in 78😂
bhalter80@reddit
DPEs over 60 have to be case by case
Far-Amount553@reddit
5 hours of questioning on a PPL oral, only to get to the end and fail you, is not normal. The only thing they need to figure out is if you’re safe, your aeronautical decisions are safe, and that you actually put some work into studying. Granted it’s been 10+ years since my PPL check ride but even in professional settings (type ride and recurrent rides) they allow slip ups.
I would maybe talk to your chief pilot. You run the risk of word getting out to DPE’s about you complaining, and in this world “it’s never the examiners fault,” but I think you could have a case. Idk. 5 hours of questions with 2 hours sitting there watching him look at your shit is a little ridiculous. Guys like that will drive people away from aviation. I’ve never understood why check rides have to be as stressful as they are.
Mach_v_manchild@reddit
This sounds exactly like a dude in my area. Honestly wouldn't be surprised if its the same guy. We dont use him anymore for a reason...
SunAcceptable4019@reddit (OP)
Does it happen to be in the Jacksonville area?😂
Ok-Sand-8503@reddit
Many DPEs travel all over and do check rides over the country. Wouldn’t couldn’t it out. Drop the initials lol
Mach_v_manchild@reddit
Nope. I was about to start naming initials the similarities are a crazy coincidence 😂
Anthem00@reddit
You need to rethink your adm for check rides. You have a failure. Yet you schedule a dpe that is known to be difficult. Why ? After 5 hours - if you aren’t with it enough - discontinue. It’s your prerogative. If you continue - sorry your fault if you can’t answer correctly.
Is this length of time normal ? Not usually for ppl. But every one is different. You need to control the things you can control - and you didn’t.
stillcrazyedward@reddit
This is the winning and correct answer. The OP should have recognized after a few hours that he was getting jerked around and there was something amiss. He should have just told the DPE, "I am not feeling up to continuing this exercise, and I would like to terminate it and pick it up at a later time." You are not a prisoner of the DPE, you are a willing (or not) participant in the process. I have terminated more than one checkride because the checker was a jerk and I was never questioned on it. You got to have some confidence and self respect. The next check ride inevitably wen well with a different evaluator.
CaptainsPrerogative@reddit
HERE’S HOW TO FILE A COMPLAINT ABOUT A DPE: Write up all your notes about what happened, what the DPE said and did, that indicate they were being unprofessional and/or biased and/or taking advantage of you financially and/or not following the standard on your checkride.
There is a new online form for these specific reports. The FAA Designee Management System website homepage now has a hyperlink in the upper right corner labeled “Report Designee Misconduct”. Select “I am an Aviation Industry Member” and then “Pilot” at the start of the intake form. Cut and paste your notes into the online form.
The FAA will follow up on their end to investigate reports of misconduct of their designees. They are extremely UNlikely to change the outcome of a failed checkride, however they can and do remove people from their designee program, for cause.
Please help improve the system for everyone by reporting misconduct.FAA Designee Management System website
indecision_killingme@reddit
You should write out your experience as detailed as possible.
I would consider emailing it to the FSDO. But be very careful on how you word the email.
Attached is my experience with DPE X. Thank you for taking the time to read it. My experience with this DPE was different than what was led to expect.
I don’t see anything changing for you, but it might trigger an observe check ride for the DPE. If they get enough of those, they’ll pull privileges. Only do this if after talking with experts in your area, you feel there were significant abnormalities.
throwaway642246@reddit
Drop a fucking naaaaaame. Who is this piece of shit?
Tiny-Definition8160@reddit
Definitely not normal. Imo if you heard something bad about a dpe multiple times it’s best to stay away and pick one that’s fair even if you have to wait. My checkride oral portion was 2 hours and a half and I had a FAA inspector too. Just imagine what he could’ve done on your flight portion. Best to pick a different dpe and don’t recheck with him
TaurusAuriga@reddit
No it’s not normal. My private and instrument orals were about 90 min each. What does your CFI say?
And yes your XC waypoints should be things you can identify visually and see on your sectional - like airports, highways, etc. I’ve never heard of using an “airway” for a VFR XC.
howdoiflytheairplane@reddit
lol is there any other way on a PPL checkride to assess someone’s pilotage and dead reckoning skills without visual references on a flight plan?
Krysocks@reddit
you're allowed to use victor airways but it's definitely not standard especially for PPL checkrides. I used one but only because it was the easiest path without many visual points.
SunAcceptable4019@reddit (OP)
My CFI thought certain aspects of it were very strange and some things that he’s never heard of being asked during a PPL Oral. So I brought it up with our head CFI at the school and he spoke with the DPE about it, waiting to hear back how that went lol.
davidswelt@reddit
Not normal. My ASEL PPL oral was maybe 1 hour. And for a VFR cross-country by pilotage, you go straight unless there are terrain/airspace/safety considerations, and then you pick things you will be able to identify to the left and the right along the way.
WorkingOnPPL@reddit
Not sure if this pertains to your situation, but I think some of these DPEs have their little niche area that they know very well and they may press students on these areas more than is typical.
In my area, we have a DPE and his whole career has been dealing with other people‘s general aviation aircraft, so this guy really drills down hard on airworthiness directives, inspections and the like.
scudrunner14@reddit
Wait… did I read right that he failed you on something that you had gotten right earlier on? Why did he even ask you it again to begin with?
SunAcceptable4019@reddit (OP)
My thoughts exactly, the whole thing was ridiculously long start to finish and I was so mentally exhausted at the end of it.
Dry-Present-4712@reddit
Very unnatural, my ppl oral was 1.5hrs and have never seen one exceed 3 hours but, it is a wierd question do you use gi bill or a special way of paying? I know some schools who have their own examiners will milk you for time since they can get more money from it but i doubt that is really the case. You could also try to fight the outcome but I don’t really know how that whole process works.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
So as I’m nearing the end of my PPL course, I got scheduled for my check ride towards the middle or end of June, I went with a fairly easy-going DPE, but still got a unsatisfactory in the oral(my fault entirely, I was super nervous and got mixed up on a few airspace items). So after the check ride failure, I did multiple grounds studied up and did multiple mock orals with three different instructors at my school who all thought I was well beyond prepared. So I get scheduled with the only available DPE my school has and I have not heard good things about him and that he was super hard and very thorough, so with no other choice I scheduled with him for July 3. The day of the check ride I show up to my school at 7AM and get everything prepared in the room and he shows up at 8:30AM to then sit there from 8:30AM to 10:30AM going through my paperwork and logbook and everything else and then finally we start the oral portion of the check ride shortly after 10:30AM. He starts off by looking at my weight and balance and had issues with it only being for him and I and wanted me to add an extra person and an X amount of weight for baggage, so I do everything as requested subtract some fuel so we’re not over max weight and that all went well. He then looks at my Nav log and was upset that I had roads and other visual reference points as my way points for a VFR flight plan….. yes, you read that correctly. He was upset that I did not use a federal airway that was basically going from our departure to arrival airport, from my understanding when you go on a VFR cross country flight you plan your way points visually so you can see them in flight, but apparently that was wrong and he said that needed major work. Then he starts asking me various questions and I’m able to answer everything with ease and that continued for about five hours of nonstop questioning….. We then got to the end and he started asking me some different scenario based questions and by then I was so mentally exhausted after being there for a total of seven hours and being asked questions for five hours that I slipped up on one of the airspace equipment requirements and he told me that he was gonna have to fail me because I got the answer right earlier on but then gave him the wrong answer there. Is it typical for a PPL check ride oral to go for five hours of questioning, in total seven or eight hours from him getting there in the room to start?
Please downvote this comment until it collapses.
Questions about this comment? Please see this wiki post before contacting the mods.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. If you have any questions, please contact the mods of this subreddit.