[In_depth] Reclaiming Collapse:
An eco-anarchist and somewhat misanthropic perspective on the positive qualities of 'doomerism.'
Posted by 413ph@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 21 comments
Looking for feedback and counter arguments. This is obviously just the intro.
Reclaiming Collapse
An eco-anarchist and somewhat misanthropic perspective on the positive qualities of 'doomerism.'
Introduction
In the contemporary discourse on climate change, no accusation is considered more damning than that of "doomerism." It is wielded as a conversation-ending epithet against those who express profound pessimism about the future of industrial civilization. The prevailing wisdom, articulated by politicians, mainstream environmental organizations, and techno-optimists alike, posits that hope—however tenuous—is the essential fuel for action. To abandon hope, they argue, is to succumb to a cynical paralysis, to abdicate one's responsibility to "do something" in the face of crisis. This paper will argue that this formulation is not only wrong, but is a dangerous inversion of reality. The greatest impediment to meaningful action is not despair, but the hollow and manufactured hope that we can resolve a crisis of civilization using the tools and logic of the very civilization that created it.
This essay proceeds from an eco-anarchist and unabashedly misanthropic viewpoint. It contends that the dominant human social structure—global industrial capitalism, propped up by the nation-state—is not a patient to be saved but a malignancy to be excised. From this perspective, the system’s collapse is not an unthinkable tragedy to be averted, but an inevitable and necessary ecological event. Therefore, the psychological state of "doomerism"—the acceptance of this inevitability—is not a paralyzing affliction but a moment of liberating clarity. It is the essential precondition for any authentic form of motivation.
To be motivated by a desire to prevent collapse is to remain shackled to the object of one's own destruction, to exhaust oneself attempting to reinforce the foundations of a condemned structure. It is an energy born of delusion. In contrast, the motivation born from accepting collapse is entirely different. It is akin to the perspective shift that accompanies a terminal diagnosis: the trivial anxieties of the past fall away, and one is freed to act with profound authenticity on what truly matters. For the eco-anarchist, this means abandoning the fantasy of "saving the world" and instead embracing the tangible work of cultivating resilience, defending the wild, and building post-collapse possibilities in the shadow of the declining empire.
This paper, therefore, seeks to reclaim collapse and embrace doom. It will argue that by acceptance of the end of the world as we know it, we are not surrendering to apathy. Instead, we are unburdening ourselves from the paralyzing weight of false hope and, like the phoenix, finding in the ashes the only possible grounds from which a meaningful and defiant future can rise.
SavingsDimensions74@reddit
I applaud your post, but (even tho it’s all meaningless in the grand scheme of things), try to keep your language a concise and simple as needed. Else it can alienate important points and can be viewed as elitist.
I suffer from the same affliction.
Just not quite as acute as yours ☺️👊🏼
every1deserves2vent@reddit
Yes, let us all aid in the death of literacy and vocabulary to soothe the egos of those who don't respect the art of rhetoric - because that's done us so much good, and won so much ground with the ignorant 😒 fuck it dude, write beautiful shit if you want to write beautiful shit. Don't water down your voice for the masses - they aren't going to read it anyways, you're just robbing yourself and others of intellectual stimulation
DoomTiaraMagic@reddit
I like your approach, and your writing is clear. My first thoughts are that you, too, sound optimistic - about a defiant future after capitalism. And so far you are glossing over the incredible terrors that will necessarily happen to cull off a solid majority of living humans.
I'd like to see your fully developed arguments in the essay itself, but I think you should consider that there may no be silver lining for humanity, and the death of humanity woulr be a profound horror that shouldn't be brushed off lightly, even if nature does eventually bounce back.
Collapse_is_underway@reddit
No, it would be a profund horror for us, for all the crazy violence that would be used in many different forms to cull us, but I'm pretty sure that most of wild animals do not give a shit and would welcome with open arms the culling of this single species (among millions) that's fucking up their environnement so badly.
Also if we could ask the poultry or animals we kill by the billions in industrialized farms that we stuff with growth stimulators while living in a 1x1m' for a few months, I'm pretty sure the profund horror has been here for quite some time now. But that's not our species, it's normal, lmao :]
Once we crash hard enough, we mostly stop all the polluting fluxs (be it from fossil fuels, the petrochemicals, metals, etc.). So, the sooner we crash, the better it is, overall.
The "we gotta protect as many people as possible to die as old as possible" is an argument to justifiy "I wanna stay in my current comfort as long as possible". It's only valid for our species and if you ignore the massive and utterly destructive impact of all the pollution we generate when we transform matter into stuff we sell.
I don't care how special or sophisticated we paint ourselves, the sooner we crash the better is an overall truth, regardless of the love you have for your closed ones or humans in general.
DoomTiaraMagic@reddit
It would be a horror for us and all the species going down with us. Nature is will look very different after this is all over, and we will lose many species. I think the devastation, whether human or animal, or plant, is a terrible loss. While I can plainly see we have exceeded the human carrying capacity and our crash is inevitable, I still feel grief for the tragedies that will have to be endured along the way. From wildfires, to floods, to war and starvation, ocean heat, anoxia and acidification, it will not just hurt humans.
Collapse_is_underway@reddit
In the current slow collapse, yeah indeed (also it's a "it will be" not a "it would be").
However the sooner we crash, the sooner we also possibly avoid some positive feedback loops (in the climate system and/or biosphere and/or oceans).
Also the dozen of billions of poultry and other animals that we cage so we can have access to chicken sandwich wherever we go would stop being farmed in the most insane and unethical ways (in a hard crash).
And as we saw in COVID; if we let Nature run wild, it will take back human territory and make way for wild complex lifeforms (that are currently, what, 2% of biomass, the vast majority being the animals we farm to eat and ourselves)
OkMedicine6459@reddit
Most positive feedback loops are pretty much locked in. It also won’t help with heat guaranteed to continue rising whether we collapse or not, causing AMOC collapse, the arctic ice will continue to melt, sea levels will continue to rise, the strain on the 500+ nuclear power plants causing them to meltdown or explode, radiating the atmosphere and poisoning the land. Biosphere collapse is basically locked in no matter how or when we collapse.
413ph@reddit (OP)
Good point. The whole phoenix thing struck me as a bit much, but it is an intro. The bait before the hook, as it were. In my earlier comment, I mention as motivation being tired of anyone coming to this obvious conclusion being either sidelined if they cling too tightly, or fearfully cautioned away from that dark ledge.
Oh. And I may be understating my misanthropy. A world without humans (or dramatically less) is a positive thing to me...
genomixx-redux@reddit
Is it not a contradiction in your worldview to simultaneously make arguments for the creation of a meaningful and defiant future in the shadow of empire's decline and also seeing a mass loss of human life as a positive thing?
Physical_Ad5702@reddit
I don't think OP is getting his kicks from the amount of people that may no longer be here due to collapse, but it is being brutally honest about the real carrying capacity of the planet in a post industrial setting. I've seen estimates range from a few hundred million down to 25 million for a healthy human population of hunter-gathers which will be the primary lifestyle post collapse. I completely disregard all population projections of a billion plus post collapse; there is no serious data projections to support those numbers. This is a heavy topic for sure so disparaging points of view are to be expected. I look forward to his completed essay.
genomixx-redux@reddit
It isn't possible to calculate what the carrying capacity will be in the future, under radically different conditions--both geo-ecological and potentially a radically different mode of production (which is likewise something no one has a crystal ball for).
But that is a separate conversation than OP's misanthropic view that much fewer or no humans would be a positive thing -- which raises the question of why the piece is taking any pains to argue for the creation of a meaningful and defiant future. It's a contradictory position to take up.
aRenoReno@reddit
i'm not sure if i have much feedback other than to note the similarities to anarcho nihilism do you consider yourself to lean that way?
413ph@reddit (OP)
Incidentally, I wrote the sub's mods 22 days ago requesting permission to post. I received an OK to post with [in-depth] tag 11 days ago. 👍
Known_Leek8997@reddit
It was awhile ago and we plum forgot. You should be back up and running now.
hectorbrydan@reddit
You cannot fix a problem if you cannot defind it. Lying of the situations, on climate snd political and social degeneration, will prevent actions that could somewhat mitigate those problems, and there is a big overlap between the two. The oligarchs know too well and are prepping themselves, and if we do not we will go into the meat grinders as well, social collapse is right around thd corner. Not all at once, piece by piece, steadily worsening at faster rates with big drops, climate will fuel that collapse and change will be exponential from feedback loops. In our lifetimes but it is impossible to nail down as we do not have the value of interconnected variables. It does not matter how much computer gets put onto it, no one can say, but faster than lredicted is all but certain.
I am called a pessimist, but time and again it is worse than my predictions and the optimist types are incredibly wrong but never admit it and change. It is not about being right with them, but tribal loyalties. Reason will not win them over. Only clearly undeniable self interest will.
Cultural-Answer-321@reddit
Exactly.
No problem can be fixed if it is not first based on facts. And those facts are never pleasant.
genomixx-redux@reddit
My main criticism: this is stridently anti-capitalist and anti-empire, not anti-humanist, so why does the piece claim to be coming from a misanthropic viewpoint?
Bubbly-Risk-4260@reddit
I wonder what's the goal of this text.
My positive comment: I like your evaluation of hope in this context as hollow and even problematic. Like in the George Carlin's campaign, "The public sucks, fuck hope!". I agree on this kind of hope being demotivating, because while we like to lie to ourselves, we never truly believe those lies. And surely we can all agree on our current civilization having lots of problems and making a lot of people miserable, empty, directionless, resigned. I also appreciate you speaking of resilience and small scale protection of the wild.
My criticism: what now? Would you even survive one day in the world you foresee and kinda wish for? The path to any positive scenario will surely be filled with senseless atrocities on a barren planet. Sure, the inevitable collapse may free many of us from this subtle, pervasive psychological violence that's weighting on almost everyone...But while we are dreaming of greener pastures, life unfolds, and the future is likely to involve rats eating too. If you feel you are ready for that high risk and uncomfortable life, what's stopping you from "collapsing early and avoiding the rush"? I mean I have my excuses, including the fact that apparently my self is split (dissociative identities), but do you?
collapse-ModTeam@reddit
Rule 2: Posts and comments which appear to be marketing, self-promotion, surveys, astroturfing, or other forms of spam will be removed.
Self-promotion or surveys of value to the community may be allowed on a case-by-case basis, if the moderation team is informed first via mod mail.
NyriasNeo@reddit
I am a doomer but this is a lot of BS. "meaningful and defiant future" are just mumbo jumbo pointless wordplay when no one has any clue about what is after a collapse. The fact this whole thing is written in English, with human words and concepts, is the antithesis of "misanthropic perspective".
So again, a lot of meaningless mumbo jumbo hot air. Just accept and make peace. We do not need to write dissertation using big words so make end of the world sounds fancier.
413ph@reddit (OP)
I considered Esperanto but it didn't have all the words. And my AI model on cricket screech is still training. 😜 Jokes aside, thanks for your feedback.
My purpose in the writing isn't fanciful. The motivation is primarily to counter and perhaps reclaim the 'doomerism' epithet. I believe it's (mis)use as a dismissal is profoundly wrong headed. When students in climate science inevitably reach this natural conclusion, they are cautioned against indulging this 'evil beast.' I'm arguing that rather than run, dive in. The waters fetid, but it's what we got. Terminal diagnoses offer the only motivation salient enough for profound change. In this, the writing isn't intended to make me feel better, I'm fine. I'd like to let others know that they don't have to shun doom like a great plague - that approached with the right eye, it might actually help.
Glad you already get that. You are a small minority. 😊