Vent: Why aren't you talking?
Posted by JSTootell@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 164 comments
I flew into a new to me airport yesterday. Tuning in the AWOS there was a message after the weather saying "Due to the number of aircraft without radios or ADS-B, standard traffic patterns are encouraged".
I try to always fly a standard pattern anyway, so, no big deal. I'm making all my calls, not hearing anyone. As I'm on the downwind I see someone holding short. Normally when I'm holding short I'll let traffic know my intentions as I sit there. Though my home field does have an unusual and tight pattern. As I'm about to turn final, the plane departs without ever making a call. Never popped up on my ADS-B in either. I'm not sure what it was, looked like a Cherokee.
Later in the day as I'm getting ready to depart, I see a Sonex take to the skies. Now it is completely possible he made calls and I missed them while starting up and eventually listening in to the AWOS, but I should have at least heard a crosswind.
I know I was on the right frequency as another guy left not long behind me and I actually heard him make a call before I switched to Approach, and then I heard him contact Approach as well.
I know there was a mid air in the Tahoe area last year (I think last year) with a guy known for not turning on his electrical and I think not a student and CFI (high vs low wing).
I'm mostly just venting. But, what is up with this? I fly out of a tiny field with planes that actually don't have electrical, and even they use handhelds. I haven't noticed anyone not communicating yet at home. And there is no babysitter, except maybe peer pressure (my CFI was an old guy who hammered it in to me to talk). I've run into this at a few fields now. Are we trying to add risk?
If it matters, I am middle aged. And am pretty green still.
SnarfsParf@reddit
A lot of untowered fields have issues with locals not announcing themselves. Some it’s once in a blue moon, others it’s every day.
My field (a well known training field) has an issue with a particular group of RV pilots doing 3 ship overhead breaks while the pattern is full. Just the other week I departed in my C172 while a bonanza (with one of these guys in it) was on a three mile final. Though he did announce he was coming in for a break, he neglected to inform everyone that he was doing 190 across the ground. Well, one bonanza side step and subsequent undercut of my flight path at 150’ AGL later…I had a NASA report to file. Not to mention he scared a student crossing the numbers into a go around after he almost landed behind and on the same runway as them about 30 seconds later.
Some people really are either anti authority or impulsive af.
MeatServo1@reddit
Watsonville?
SnarfsParf@reddit
Nope
TheOriginalJBones@reddit
Can’t blame the RV guys for flying formation and overhead breaks. They can’t help it. No way to stop them.
SnarfsParf@reddit
True. They just don’t know any other way to do it.
Maybe the tower that’s on the way will eventually teach them some different ways.
lovelyfeyd@reddit
TTA?
Yuri909@reddit
And we just lost a Cirrus with a whole family. :(
SnarfsParf@reddit
Closer, but no cigar!
Spark_Ignition_6@reddit
A tower makes overheads easier and safer. An overhead is a legit traffic pattern.
TheOriginalJBones@reddit
Towers can’t stop them. You’d have to shoot them down to stop them, but that wouldn’t be fair and you’d just get never ending waves of missing man formations anyway.
Gotta just let them do it.
SnarfsParf@reddit
The head RV guy argued with me for 30 minutes once about how I was wrong to get flight following and he doesn’t need it bc his ADS-B data is more accurate than their radar is
HardCorePawn@reddit
Aviation really does seem to attract more than it's fair share of idiots and cowboys.
There was a "character" at my old training airfield who never made calls because the landing fees were based on someone going back through the tapes and noting the regos (yes, this was open to abuse).
Anyway, one night... I was up doing night circuits for currency before heading off in a SEP to do a night scenic flight around the downtown area... and I see some aircraft lights approaching the circuit (having made no radio calls all the way through the Mandatory Broadcast Zone)... I broadcast "Aircraft overhead XYZ reporting point, say intentions"... and watched as all the aircraft lights turned off.
Found out later that it was the same guy.
SnarfsParf@reddit
Dude he turned his lights off?? Just when I think it can’t get any dumber
HardCorePawn@reddit
Yeah... all so he could save like $10-15 on landing fees, whilst endangering himself and anyone unfortunate enough to be sharing airspace with him.
Unfortunately, the CAA in this country (like a lot of countries) is woefully under-resourced... so the many reports against this guy just couldn't be investigated properly.
A lot of stuff in GA in these parts relies on the honour system (landing fees at a lot of small airfields use an "honesty box" system etc)... and some people just have no honour.
thegoatisoldngnarly@reddit
You’d think you could at least get him booted from the airfield by the airport manager? Evict him from his hangar or parking space.
tomdarch@reddit
Huh? Why not just make calls without stating the registration number?
tomdarch@reddit
I think I understand what an "overhead break" approach is... with other planes in the pattern? Seriously?
NTXRockr@reddit
Nothing wrong with a break with other planes in the pattern, just have to sequence yourself in behind the last one on downwind so breaking later than normal to make the timing interval work.
Razorback_one@reddit
FFC FTW!
ljthefa@reddit
Are those the same guys from PDK? Did they move or are they multiplying?
SnarfsParf@reddit
Nope. My airport has had their own group of numbnuts for years.
SnarfsParf@reddit
Oh god does falcon have an RV mafia too??
Razorback_one@reddit
Some say mafia, some say”group”.
SnarfsParf@reddit
Well, at least falcon is closer to getting its tower than my airport. We’re still 5-7 years away I’m told 🙃
planetrainguy@reddit
This reaks of LVJ.
uniballing@reddit
What’s the deal with LVJ? I’m learning how to fly out of DWH right now, but thinking of joining one of the clubs at LVJ because I live in Angleton and the commute to Tomball is killing me.
SnarfsParf@reddit
Nahh, wrong part of the country lol. Thanks for the heads up if I’m ever out that way though
planetrainguy@reddit
You’re telling me there are more mini cults of vans terrorizing local fields 😂😂😂
SnarfsParf@reddit
Surprisingly common apparently. This one larps as an EAA chapter
JSTootell@reddit (OP)
As I mentioned to someone else, my field is relatively slow. But has a pretty close network of friends, so I think there is a lot of peer pressure in a positive way. On the rare occasion someone is doing something "hotdog", it is still announced. People just talk to each other here. Not many students, not really a training field, though I learned here.
Mispelled-This@reddit
Talking makes all the difference. I’m fine joining a circus and fitting myself in as long as I know where everyone is and what they’re doing.
SnarfsParf@reddit
IMO there really isn’t a reason to not be communicating if you have the capability. It’s not hard to do and, if there are so many calls you can’t get a word in edgewise, then maybe you should wait a minute to bust into that pattern lol.
My field is right outside one of the busier bravos and we get a LOT of training traffic from the schools located inside. Which makes the aerobatics in the pattern even more ridiculous.
mduell@reddit
They're afraid of it.
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
Read the FARS the is no requirement to announce at an uncontrolled field
bannedkyle@reddit
There is legal, and then there's smart. The FAR is the MINIMUM legal requirements for flying. If you hold yourself to minimum standards then that says more about you and your ADM than anything else.
"dOeSn'T mAtTeR"
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
I never said I don’t do it. But you’ve let us don’t have to do according to the regs ands that’s done to accommodate NORDO Aircraft
But hey keep making assumptions
tomdarch@reddit
I'm OK with the FAA setting up a system to issue exceptions to aircraft where it is not possible to operate a radio. But for everyone else, the fact that there are lots of jackasses who come right out and say "it isn't required, so I'm not going to do it" is a reason to make it a requirement.
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
No one needs more rules and systems from the FAA….
bannedkyle@reddit
Your second sentence doesn't make sense. I'm not making assumptions about whether you do it, or don't
I'm stating you're defending a shit lack of regulation.
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
If the regulation was written all planes must make calls you’ve just taken out half of Alaskan Avaition and 10% down in the lower 48
bannedkyle@reddit
You're completely right. Because the bush strip that sees 10 planes a month in Alaska would collapse because they had to make position calls.
Come on dude. It takes a total of 5 seconds to push a button and say your position. And it costs 200 bucks for a handheld radio.
These aren't high standards, and you're grasping for straws to, again, defend a shit point.
FBoondoggle@reddit
The attitude of "I'm gonna do what I want and everyone else just needs to look out" is just an enormous FU to the rest of the flying community. Why not take the few seconds to try to make the shared airspace a little safer for you and the other guys? Even if there's no regulation.
Ionalien@reddit
There's also no requirement to fly more than once every 90 days with passengers.
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
Tell that to the pilot in the J-3 cub
Ionalien@reddit
Was the pilot in the post in a J-3?
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
And how does that matter?
It doesn’t
Ionalien@reddit
You brought up J-3 because they can't make calls. The pilot in the OP could make calls.
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
Like I said it doesn’t matter.
Ionalien@reddit
Why not?
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
You are not required to make calls at an uncontrolled airport. And the AWOS stated that NORDO aircraft operate from that field
Ionalien@reddit
So if I got my PPL 600 days ago and haven't flown since, should I go for a solo flight because I'm current?
k12pcb@reddit
Show me in the FARS where consent is required? Not there? Must be ok then ………
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
Tell that to the pilot in the J-3 cub
flyboy520@reddit
The FAA has implied in the AC on non towered field ops that not communicating could be seen as careless or reckless operation.
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
Tell that to the pilot in the J-3 cub
FlowerGeneral2576@reddit
Such a free-thinker you are.
jgremlin_@reddit
Now all that being said, while its been years since I've been current to fly, back when I was and even now, I LOVE making radio calls and always did so whenever I was able.
But I spent a lot of time flying company airplanes (banners) that were tied down outside. And for the main plane I flew, I kept the correct size allen wrench in the seat pocket so that anytime it had rained at all since the plane was tied down, I could unscrew and remove the only radio from its cradle and hold it outside the door and tip it down long ways to let the several tablespoons of water that was inside of it dump out on the ground.
Then I'd reinstall it and sometimes it would work and other times it just wouldn't until a day or two of dry weather went by. And that doesn't even begin to factor in the times we'd show up to find a bad alternator and/or a dead battery so we'd have to hand prop and you flew that day with no electrics at all. Happened way more than you'd expect with those work planes so it just became a way of life. Use the radio if you have it, don't sweat it if you don't.
And if you do that for any amount of time at all, you quickly get to a place where it becomes use the radio if you have it, don't sweat it if you don't and don't sweat just turning it off if the frequency is constant feedback from over saturation and/or being dominated by yokels discussing what they had for breakfast and what hunk of meat they're going to barbecue later that day.
That's just how it was/is for me anyway. But if you're going to be in a place where you accept that sort of thing at all as a reality you partake in on occasion, you also have to accept that there will be those make that their reality even when there is no logical reason to do so. NORDO guys are out there and they will always be out there. Some have good reason. Other don't. Reason doesn't matter. They exist and you need to fly accordingly. That's what matters.
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
Well said.
See and Avoid.
TheHidingGoSeeker@reddit
I fly out of a little field too and I called downwind, base, base to final, final and 1 mile final. Citation was holding short, no radio calls or anything just takes the runway for departure. I was pretty pissed.
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
Probally because he was on the line with center getting his release
Ionalien@reddit
This comment implied that hopping on the runway with no "departure call" is just fine and dandy.
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
It's completely legal as far as the FARs go
Ionalien@reddit
Did I disagree with that?
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
You lack all comprehension. I'll bet you were a joy to teach....
Ionalien@reddit
Is there a difference between legality and safety?
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
You fail in comprehension and are fixated on something you read. I mean you, with your vast experience, are obviously the final arbiter of how anything aviation should be done
KITTYONFYRE@reddit
bro the other people in this thread are not the ones failing comprehension lol
Ionalien@reddit
And yet you cannot answer a simple question.
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
I’ve answered it multiple times
Ionalien@reddit
Please link me the comment where you answered the simple yes or no.
Ionalien@reddit
Who asked if it was legal?
tomdarch@reddit
My slow ass was dragging along at 65 kts on final in a 172 when the private jet that was holding short complained to the tower that they probably could have made it out ahead of me....
tower pointed out that they were still waiting on their clearance.
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
Yeah, well, that does happen. Hopefully it wasnt a 5 miles final
tomdarch@reddit
No. Class D and the tower extended our downwind somewhat for other traffic if I'm remembering correctly.
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
so NOT an uncontrolled airport......
this whole thread is tiresome
Ionalien@reddit
Maybe when he was holding short, but when he departs?
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
Again not required. And half the time I’m well above pattern altitude by the end of the runway and climbing
Ionalien@reddit
I'm not disagreeing that it's required. You haven't given a reason that you shouldn't take 1 second to make a radio call.
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
Because often times I’m well out of the airspace before I have a chance to half the time I’m above the airport airspace in less than 30 seconds….
Ionalien@reddit
And the other times?
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
lol. Keep swinging
Hang on I’m gonna have the flight attendant get me another coffee after I hit the lav….
Ionalien@reddit
Right, you don't have any reason besides being lazy.
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
You just don’t get this
My ONLY call leaving an uncontrolled air goes like this
“White and blue Gulfstream departing runway 14 to the north Cottonwood”
No need for anything else
Go and learn. You don’t know as much as you think you do
Ionalien@reddit
"Maybe when he was holding short, but when he departs?" Was my comment. The call you just wrote out was exactly the radio call that I was referring to.
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
You have a lot to learn about Avaition. I suggest less arguing with those that do it for a living and more learning on your part
Ionalien@reddit
I suggest you not conflate legality with safety.
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
lol. I suggest that you learn more and stop telling us that know what we are doing how to do it.
Ionalien@reddit
I suggest you work on remembering that you wrote the exact same thing 2 minutes ago.
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
Do you even have a pilots license?
Ionalien@reddit
Do you?
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
I fly a Gulfstream for a living (5 of them actually)
You don’t have a clue
Ionalien@reddit
So what's up with making a comment implying that you shouldn't make any radio calls...and then saying you do make a departing radio call?
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
I never implied that you shouldn't make any radio calls; I said that the FAR's do not make them mandatory.
Unless there is absolutely no traffic, I will make my departure call. I will not make any calls "Departing the airspace" because it's not needed. Especially because I've usually climbed through it 45 seconds after brake release
Ionalien@reddit
We get it your plane is fast. I was talking about the "departure call". You are the one who misunderstood.
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
No, I'm not misunderstanding at all
you are
Ionalien@reddit
Please enlighten me oh wise Gulfstream pilot.
Ionalien@reddit
Yep.
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
Doubtful
Ionalien@reddit
So?
bannedkyle@reddit
Bro that dudes a clown. You with a PPL have better ADM than him.
Don't let his shitty attitude weigh you down
Ionalien@reddit
I dunno, he's got a point. I should probably send it solo tonight in IMC with my IFR rating I have yet to receive with my grand total of .1 actual. "FARs don't say I can't!"
Ionalien@reddit
The citation didn't make that call you just outlined, and you commented as if you were defending that choice
TheHidingGoSeeker@reddit
This was probably the case
Mithster18@reddit
To play devils advocate, could've there been the possibility that his one radio call (that he may or may not have made) got stepped on by your 5 radio calls?
Spark_Ignition_6@reddit
Yes 1000000% which is one of many reasons all the ST and PPL tags on here proudly proclaiming they make "every" position call is kind of amusing. They're not helping and possibly are hurting everyone else's SA lol. Only use the radio when it adds to safety. Making 4+ position calls in a box pattern is absurd. We all know how the pattern works and what you'll be on next.
TheHidingGoSeeker@reddit
Possibly. But she said “taking runway for departure”. Right in front of me.
virtuesdeparture@reddit
I’m a student and also call all my legs. I was flying traffic pattern with my cfi and as we turned final, a Navajo yelled at us to turn off, and they aborted their takeoff, luckily they were still on the ground, but on the roll…taking off on the opposite runway from which we were landing. First radio call they’d made. My cfi said they were likely on the frequency for the local class d, filing an ifr flight plan, so they neither made calls nor heard mine.
I should’ve seen them beforehand, and have been much more vigilant checking for traffic on the runways and taxiways. But it was infuriating that they weren’t even on the correct frequency, and didn’t make any announcements or clear both sides before beginning their takeoff roll.
Ok-Technician-2905@reddit
Well, at least once in my life I was “that guy”. Dutifully making radio calls but on the wrong frequency. Doh!
JSTootell@reddit (OP)
I actually think that's a good reason to talk.
A. If no one is talking to you, maybe something you are doing is wrong?
B. If everyone BUT you is talking, at least it is just ONE person not talking.
A friend of mine screwed up and left his towbar on, and insult to injury, wasn't on the correct frequency. Another friend saw him landing and tried to tell him to go around, but he couldn't hear it, obviously. One $20k engine later, and he learned a hard lesson.
Helpful_Corn-@reddit
What could he have done differently at that point, pull over before landing to remove it?
karantza@reddit
I wonder what your options realistically are. Wiggle the nose wheel a bunch, if it's steerable? Phone a friend who's up for a spontaneous wing walking formation flying stunt? Find an airport where the winds are 60 kts straight down the runway and land in a hover? Do a low flyby while someone on the ground tries to smack it loose with a broom?
KITTYONFYRE@reddit
realistically? land very carefully. don't think you've got much else you can do lol
PutOptions@reddit
I too was "that guy" and had no idea I was of by a decimal. Until I launched over a 172 sitting at the opposite end with the prop spinning. I was around 20 hours and the CFI didn't catch it.
Moved that from the luck bag to the experience bag. That pilot is likely still cursing me and rightly so.
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
Let's look at it from a different perspective. The individuals who are creating audiobooks from their calls are also a significant issue. Short, concise, and to the point is all you need
And while we are at it, no one needs to know your tail number. No one can see it if we are all properly flying the pattern.
"White and blue high wing turning downwind XXX Traffic" that's all you need to say. You've established who you are, where you are, and what you are doing. Nothing more is needed; we don't need to know your life story, Ted Stryker.
stillcrazyedward@reddit
From AC 90-66: "Self-announce transmissions may include aircraft type to aid in identification and detection. Paint schemes and color or style descriptions may be added to the use of the aircraft call sign and type, but should not replace type or call sign."
skyboy510@reddit
If you’re sitting on the ground, clear of the runway, not moving, at a busy pattern, why waste airtime telling everyone you’re going to keep sitting there?
JSTootell@reddit (OP)
I'm typically flying out of small fields, my home included. I don't think "holding short 24" is a huge waste of airtime to the one guy in the pattern turning base. The pattern is so tight that you only level the wings long enough to check for straight in traffic before turning final, and that's in a slow 150! My friends Pitts doesn't even level his wings.
Spark_Ignition_6@reddit
Conversely, does making that call change what anybody else is going to do? If the answer is no, what is the function of making it?
skyboy510@reddit
Something to keep in mind as well, maybe not specific to your airport: in the base leg you might still be hearing traffic calls from 3+ airports. Even if there’s only one plane on the ground in front of you, every call is one less chance you have to get a word in.
JSTootell@reddit (OP)
This is true
Mithster18@reddit
I flew out of an aerodrome that had the runways 02/20, 18/36, 11/29, this also shared a frequency with an aerodrome 70nm away that had the runways 02/20, 06/24, 11/29, 16/34. I'd be in the circuit and hear traffic from the other aerodrome, radio calls go far man, and the amount of times I've heard radio's be stepped on.
tomdarch@reddit
At the uncontrolled airport I train out of we can hear a bunch of other CTAF calls. I'm a huge fan of "Podunk traffic... blah blah... Podunk." Particularly because people start talking around the same time they key the radio, I may miss where they are making the call from, so that ending clarification helps a ton.
atthemattin@reddit
I'm going to be in the minority here. But I work out of a airport that is 90% no radio. You know what we do? We just look around and visually clear the area. I don't use radios, we all know that we aren't going to be able to talk, and we don't have any issues. I look for traffic, we learn to merge. It im flying a plane that has a radio, we use it. But that's not gonna help anyone else. People need to learn from the very beginning to look outside and stop getting upset when they don't see it on adsb
tomdarch@reddit
Are these folks getting biennial flight reviews? Do they make radio calls then? If not, they shouldn't be cleared to keep flying.
DefundTheHOA_@reddit
Well for starters, it’s not required
Smart to? Yes. But there are a lot of dumb people in this world and unless it’s required people will always be lazy
404unotfound@reddit
What is the fish finder? :)
Time_Performance_688@reddit
“Died because these dudes were just kinda lazy” would look super shitty on an NTSB report dude, I dunno about you but I’d prefer not to end up dead because some dumbass is too lazy to use the motor function of their hands and mouth. Fuck sake this take pisses me off. JUST USE THE FUCKING RADIO STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR SUICIDAL JACKASSES
DefundTheHOA_@reddit
And where did I advocate for people to not use their radio? Go be emotional to someone else
Time_Performance_688@reddit
My bad I should have been more clear with my language. It’s not YOUR take that pisses me off, it’s this general idea of “it’s not explicitly written out in the FAR’s so I’m not gonna do it” which I encounter at alarming frequency with GA pilots. Wasn’t trying to aim it at you my b
DefundTheHOA_@reddit
All good, just kinda caught me off guard lol I do agree with you
Time_Performance_688@reddit
Take this upvote as penance
tomdarch@reddit
Sounds like an argument to make a functioning radio, along with the effort to use it, a requirement if you want to take off. (With specific exceptions such as the aircraft making too much electrical/radio noise.) Equipment can fail, so everyone would still have to be prepared and attentive to aircraft that aren't able to make radio calls. But if morons are endangering everyone else, this sounds like a good hole to fill.
JSTootell@reddit (OP)
I agree. ADS-B is a tool only.
AntoineEx@reddit
I fly a J3 cub with no electrical system. I fly out of a relatively busy class D airport. I see a lot of complacency as a result of ADSB data. Everyone seems to struggle with seeing me when I’m pointed out by the tower. They then assume I don’t exist because I’m also not on their ADSB receiver. This routinely leads to confusion in the pattern. New technology is amazing. Even I fly with an ADSB receiver but we have to remember looking out the window is our primary method of traffic avoidance.
ybitz@reddit
Do you fly with a portable radio?
AntoineEx@reddit
I do. I fly at a class D airport. I don’t really have a choice. I will say that the transmission range of a handheld is often limited. I can always hear you but it’s certainly possible that you won’t hear me.
Abject_Tear_8829@reddit
It is for sure, especially in the pattern, but electrical system or not, it's just selfish to not make position calls.
DefundTheHOA_@reddit
I do agree with you that it’s frustrating when people don’t make radio calls. The people who don’t make calls know that they should, they just don’t care.
It would take the FAA implementing a new reg to change it
JSTootell@reddit (OP)
I hate regs for common sense 😂
My home field has a very close network of friends. So maybe it's just the peer pressure here. We're aren't even busy either.
ChopChilds@reddit
Don’t think there needs to be a specific reg for it… But 91.13 sure fits the bill already.
imblegen@reddit
There’s a guy like this at one of the airports I fly out of, which happens to be a relatively busy untowered field. He has a radio and it works (I asked him for a radio check one day in the pattern when I didn’t hear him make calls) but he just doesn’t talk on the radio.
There seems to be a belief held by some that “if it’s legal, it’s safe.”
tomdarch@reddit
Another comment here said "unless it’s required people will always be lazy." To me that's a good reason to make it required on aircraft where it's practical (people have pointed out that some aircraft generate too much electrical noise from some sort of older spark system.) Portable batteries have advanced a huge ways versus the walkie-talkies of the 70s or lead acid batteries running 1920s radios.
natbornk@reddit
IMO this is where the problem lies. If you don’t have a radio or an electrical system, whatever. I don’t like it, but it’s whatever. If a pilot has those things and blatantly chooses not to use them, they’re an asshole plain and simple.
VeggieMeatTM@reddit
But even then, long lasting light weight rechargeable batteries for an HT are not that expensive...
Pretty_Marsh@reddit
I always talk, and it’s dumb and dangerous not to, but if nobody talks it kinda works. If you go to the antique fly-in at Blakesburg, it’s enforced NORDO. There is no listed traffic frequency because they have a bunch of NORDO traffic. You MUST fly a standard pattern (or you will be kicked out - private field) and you must spot for traffic on your own. Actually works alright, they handle hundreds of planes each year, with flying throughout the day.
xtalgeek@reddit
I've been flying GA for over 40 years and still don't get it. There is no downside to using your radio to inform others of your position and intentions. It may just save your life. There seems to be pilots like this everywhere. While ADS-B is not required (but is certainly a benefit), there is really ot excuse for not using your radio. We've had those types do that at our airport, which is often busy with a mix of local pilots, a glider club, turbine traffic, and some flight training. A voluntary NORDO (not someone without a radio) creates chaos and serious safety issues in this environment. Even our glider pilots carry portable radios and make position calls.
Hawker96@reddit
There’s people who seem to get a thrill by operating where they “technically don’t have to talk to anyone…” I’ve always assumed it’s their own radio shortcomings being compensated for. It’s terribly irritating, unsafe, and makes my balls itch every time I have to operate at uncontrolled fields.
bannedkyle@reddit
I feel for you. Two non-towered airports near my home airport have several of these dudes.
Was decending, about to turn base when I see a little yellow plane come like 200ft directly under me and had to pull up. No radio call, no adsb.
Honestly the FAA needs to make it illegal to operate at un-towered fields without making position calls at the very least.
ElPayador@reddit
Position calls are a nice gesture to the other pilots and may save your life too.
This NO ADSB radio bozos are “legal” but still inconsiderate idiots and unfortunately when they crash they take the life of another pilot who was doing everything by the book and calling 15 10 5 miles out and using standard patterns…
DefundTheHOA_@reddit
What is a NO ADSB radio
Shinsf@reddit
If they don't have it a lot of time it's complacency and laziness.
I'll always remember a pilot in the HWO practice area proudly exclaim he never had to use radios 20 years ago and who needs to do position calls.
Then he crashed and killed a student.
ShelbyDriver@reddit
I was flying 25 years ago and we made every call at every field. Well, I don't know about everyone, but it was drilled into me.
Shinsf@reddit
Because you had a good instructor
ImmediatePath8153@reddit
I announced one time “Coolidge traffic Cessena XYZ on final runway 05”. Not more than 30 seconds later “shepherd 7 back taxiing runway 23”. Like bruh…. I just told you i’m on final and your gonna taxi head on, in the direction of landing traffic on the active runway????? I caught all this on audio/video too with my GoPro
poisonandtheremedy@reddit
I have such little tolerance for these toolbags. The motorcycle track/racing world has a bunch of them also. They ride/fly like no one else matters when literally lives are on the line.
It is the epitome psychopathic behaviour.
Recently I was at Catalina AVX, which closes at 5:00pm, so around 4:40pm everyone is hustling out to their planes and bugging out. Wind was favoring 22, and yes even though Rwy 04 is downhill, and used often even with light wind, landing and departing traffic was using Rwy 22 (one guy was on approach I guess for a last minute landing and take off).
I'm taxiing, another guy is pulling up to Rwy 22, and out of nowhere a Van's RV blasts off Rwy 04, zero radio calls. And due to the crest on the runway, you can't see the opposite end from either side.
Absolute toolbag.
gc_DataNerd@reddit
Why do people not use turn signals when switching lanes or making a turn. A combination of laziness complacency and stupidity. Thats why we are taught to scan constantly for traffic. Stay safe out there and keep communicating!
k12pcb@reddit
Damn, not sure I want to fly in there
akav8r@reddit
Thanks for wasting everyones times.
Why?
MattCW1701@reddit
On my long XC solo at my first airport, there was a Hondjet entering the pattern. A quick "holding short Runway 27 for runup and the Hondajet" meant he didn't have to worry about me. We knew about each other, and he was now pretty sure I wasn't going to be an idiot. I hope he still watched me because someone else could have been an idiot, but he gave a quick "'preciate it." on the CTAF. I can't see any downsides to that interaction there.
JSTootell@reddit (OP)
If I was entering the pattern it would be nice to know someone was coming my way.
Legitimate-Watch-670@reddit
It's a skill/lack of SA issue. They don't realize how much other traffic they're not seeing. They think the targets they spot visually is all there is.
They might also lack the ability to confidently verbalize where they're at or what they're doing. I see this in most of my students. As skill increases, radio call frequency and accuracy increases too.
Additionally, as complacency builds in experienced students/pilots as they hit the peak of the dunning Kruger curve, situational awareness and radio calls start to fall off substantially.
Plncrzy11@reddit
Classic KIZA, the field is typically well behaved but not everyone has the common sense or courtesy to make their calls.
JSTootell@reddit (OP)
Pretty though
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
I flew into a new to me airport yesterday. Tuning in the AWOS there was a message after the weather saying "Due to the number of aircraft without radios or ADS-B, standard traffic patterns are encouraged".
I try to always fly a standard pattern anyway, so, no big deal. I'm making all my calls, not hearing anyone. As I'm on the downwind I see someone holding short. Normally when I'm holding short I'll let traffic know my intentions as I sit there. Though my home field does have an unusual and tight pattern. As I'm about to turn final, the plane departs without ever making a call. Never popped up on my ADS-B in either. I'm not sure what it was, looked like a Cherokee.
Later in the day as I'm getting ready to depart, I see a Sonex take to the skies. Now it is completely possible he made calls and I missed them while starting up and eventually listening in to the AWOS, but I should have at least heard a crosswind.
I know I was on the right frequency as another guy left not long behind me and I actually heard him make a call before I switched to Approach, and then I heard him contact Approach as well.
I know there was a mid air in the Tahoe area last year (I think last year) with a guy known for not turning on his electrical and I think not a student and CFI (high vs low wing).
I'm mostly just venting. But, what is up with this? I fly out of a tiny field with planes that actually don't have electrical, and even they use handhelds. I haven't noticed anyone not communicating yet at home. And there is no babysitter, except maybe peer pressure (my CFI was an old guy who hammered it in to me to talk). I've run into this at a few fields now. Are we trying to add risk?
If it matters, I am middle aged. And am pretty green still.
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