Russia strikes conscription offices in Kharkiv and Zaporizhzhia, Ukraine says
Posted by EsperaDeus@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 114 comments
Posted by EsperaDeus@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 114 comments
imunfair@reddit
From what Russia has said it's less about disrupting recruitment and more about winning good will with the Ukrainian people who don't like being snatched off the street and tossed in a trench. They're hitting the TCC in the areas of the country that are less willing to fight and letting TCC run free in regions where pro-Ukrainian sentiment is the highest.
I don't know if that speaks to Russia's overabundance of long range drones, or implies that they think the war is coming to a close and are focused on smoothing the transition to a Russian government, trying to avoid resentment and partisan behavior.
Dependent-Dream7180@reddit
Comical. If they cared about good will among the Ukrainian people, they'd stop killing them.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
Do we know how many Ukrainian civilians died in the last Russian missile/drone attack?
We know it was like 400? 500 drones and missiles.
Dependent-Dream7180@reddit
Between Dec 2024 and May 31st, Russia has killed or injured about 6 thousand Ukrainian civilians according to the UN. Almost a 40% increase over the same period last year. https://news.un.org/en/story/2025/06/1165116
b0_ogie@reddit
In total, 986 people have died in the course of the hostilities. There is no precise statistics, but it is stated that the vast majority of these deaths occurred in Ukrainian-controlled territory. In earlier reports, it was reported that approximately 70% of civilian deaths occurred in Ukraine. Therefore, 9860.7/(1830)=1.2 civilian deaths per day. For a conflict involving 2 million military personnel on both sides, with dozens or even hundreds of long-range drones being launched every day, this is a drop in the ocean.
This statistic clearly shows that Russia does not seek to purposefully kill civilians.
Dependent-Dream7180@reddit
Why are you defending Russia killing innocent civilians so hard? 1 civilian death is too much. Let alone the hundreds a month killed or maimed.
b0_ogie@reddit
Naturally, I'm defending Russia, because even though it's waging the largest war (and it's the one that invaded), according to statistics it values civilian lives more than any other country that has fought in this century, even at the expense of military effectiveness.
Dependent-Dream7180@reddit
Russia doesn't give a shit about civilian casualties, just look at Mariupol. You're mistaking Russia's incredibly slow advances (which allow civilians to flee) with Russia going out of their way to not harm civilians.
b0_ogie@reddit
The city, with a population of 420k, was stormed with direct fire contact and heavy fighting for every house. Human rights organizations have counted 8k graves related to the storming, and Ukrainian soldiers are also buried there. During the urban battles, civilians were killed due to the actions of both sides.
Now compare this to the Gaza Strip, where the fighting conditions were similar.
Dependent-Dream7180@reddit
Unfortunately we don't even know the total amount of civilians Russia killed in Mariupol but let me get this straight. So long as Russia's civilian kill count is less than an entirely different war with entirely different states in an entirely different part of the world then its acceptable to you?
b0_ogie@reddit
The estimates of the victims in Mariupol are quite accurate. And yes, about half of them were killed by Ukrainians.
Ask the residents of Mariupol if this is acceptable or not. It was Ukrainian troops who entered Mariupol in tanks in 2014, shooting at civilians. In 2022, they were either killed or walked with their hands raised.
Dependent-Dream7180@reddit
Except there's multiple estimates ranging from about 10k deaths up to 90k and Russia doesn't allow independent investigations.
According to who?
No, the losses were from Russia sieging the city. Zelensky never forbade evacuations.
Yes, defending a city is necessary to stop Russia from occupying it.
No, it was Russian backed separatists that invaded Mariupol in 2014 and started killing civilians. Get your facts from anywhere but TASS.
the_lonely_creeper@reddit
It's still killing civilians however. Stop defending fascists
b0_ogie@reddit
During the Vietnam War, about 700 civilians were killed per day. During the Iraq War, 100 civilians(according to other estimates, 300) were killed per day. During the NATO invasion of Libya, 50 civilians were killed per day. In Palestine, 150 civilians were killed per day. In Ukraine, 1 civilian was killed per day over the past 18 months.
I just want to point out who the real fascists are.
the_lonely_creeper@reddit
Irrelevant. That simple. Words have meaning, and Russia is fascist.
b0_ogie@reddit
You can call any country on this planet a fascist and not be wrong. But the fact is that Russia is much less fascist than its opponents.
the_lonely_creeper@reddit
And the sky is green
biggesthumb@reddit
Whats the point of this in regards to the comment you replied to?
crusadertank@reddit
You don't really understand the situation in Ukraine it seems
Ukrainians in the east generally support Russia. And see Russia as saving them from an illegitimate government and now dictatorship
And that is who Russia is helping here. They said they will hit recruitment centres in the East/South/Centre of the country to help Ukrainians who do not want to fight
But not stop recruitment in the west of the country as if those want to fight then they should not hide behind the backs of others.
This has been pretty consistent from Russia. Supporting those Ukrainians in the East against those in the West
Dependent-Dream7180@reddit
I always love it when a pro-Russian tells me I have no idea what I'm talking about right before they prove that they have no idea what they're talking about.
crusadertank@reddit
I was living in the East of Ukraine. Yeah I can pretty confidently say you have no idea what you are talking about
Calling anyone who you don't like a "pro-Russian shill" just proves this
Dependent-Dream7180@reddit
I don't call everyone I don't like a "pro-Russian shill", I only call people pushing nonsensical Kremlin propaganda pro-Russian, because they factually are.
LazyGandalf@reddit
So we're just promoting blatant Russian propaganda in this sub now, huh?
Messier_-82@reddit
And we should promote Ukrainian lies instead?
crusadertank@reddit
That is the opinion in places like Donetsk and Luhansk oblast
Agree with them or not, that is what they believe
My family in Crimea believe that Ukraine was about to attack them and Russia saved them by attacking Ukraine first
I don't believe that, but it is stupid to ignore the fact that it is what people believe there
re_carn@reddit
As a joke (Ukrainians will be happy that the conscription centers were bombed), it's fine, but to seriously think that someone is happy that their city was bombed is delusional. Just like the Russian motivation you came up with.
imunfair@reddit
I mean if I was scared to go to the store for fear of being kidnapped by my army, I'd be pretty pleased if someone eliminated them for me, regardless of who it was.
Do you remember how stir-crazy people went during a few months of covid? Now imagine being unable to leave home for three years and counting.
WillingnessHeavy8622@reddit
"regardless of who it was" - bullshit. Those who are doing it will came, take your home, kill your wife and after couple years kidnap you and force to fight in some other war.
I'm form Ukraine , so I know much more than you about TCC. What they are doing sometimes is unbelievable, but it's not like every man who is conscripted was beaten by them and forced to fight.
We don't know real numbers, but I heard about ~20k of conscripted men monthly. 99% were conscripted peacefully and without any problems. But you ignore that fact. You take some bad things happening, and highlight them to say "see? Russia liberating Ukraine, they're good".
Wonder why's that, huh, comrade?
re_carn@reddit
Only unlike covid, everyone knows exactly who is to blame for what is happening.
imunfair@reddit
Zelensky?
re_carn@reddit
You seem to have the wrong country on your flair.
imunfair@reddit
Ah so I'm not allowed to dislike inept leaders unless I'm from the country at war with the aforementioned inept leader?
re_carn@reddit
No, just condoning Russia for bombing doesn't seem like a sensible position.
biggesthumb@reddit
Gotem!
jadsf5@reddit
No one is forcing Ukrainian forces to kidnap citizens off the street to fight and die, that's their choice.
b0_ogie@reddit
Russia does not need a media effect. The number of collaborators is already exorbitant.
imunfair@reddit
I would disagree, they were intentionally using a soft touch at the start of the war for the same reason - to smooth the transition when they thought they would be able to regime-change Kyiv quickly.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
Everyone does that but wars always coarsen any sense of morality.
Thucydides pointed this out in his history of the Peloponnesian War.
We saw the same thing in WW2. Initially Germany and UK didn’t want to bomb civilians.
That changed over time.
Redditbecamefacebook@reddit
So it's absolute horseshit with the intention of setting their enemies up for failure.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
They definitely have an over abundance because we keep on seeing videos of them using Gerans against single tanks and stuff.
Turns out the Geran is a pretty good weapon.
I think Russia understands that the war will not end for several more years.
At Istanbul the Russian delegation said next time they meet, Ukraine will have to give up 6 oblasts.
Partisans are almost nonexistent in occupied territory. The reason for this is because there is absolutely zero difference in daily life for the average person between living in Ukrainian control and Russian control.
Also Russia has done a lot of easy things to win the good will of people.
For example, Russia has canceled all debt held by civilians. So if you have a mortgage or a car loan to a Ukrainian or European bank, it is null and void.
You also have no way to pay it either.
So suddenly you go from being $50,000 in the hole to being debt free.
VintageGriffin@reddit
What the article doesn't tell you is that the initial announcement by Ukraine's ground forces said that the recruitment offices would be moved to the territory of the local hospital and an administrative building. This was shortly edited out with an excuse that the original text was posted with "a foreign interference".
I guess posting about hiding actively sought after military targets within civilian infrastructure and behind human shields made for bad PR and made people draw parallels and ask uncomfortable questions.
geltance@reddit
Considering UA troops been riding in ambulances and sleeping inside schools since 2022.. it doesn't matter
biggesthumb@reddit
As opposed to russia s wearing ukrainian uniforms and arm bands..... or the many other war crimes they've been committing.
crusadertank@reddit
Saying "but Russia" doesn't mean it's ok to commit war crimes
biggesthumb@reddit
Are you sure? Are you gonna wag your finger at em some more?
crusadertank@reddit
I was only responding to your comment trying to downplay Ukrainian war crimes.
Regardless of what Russia does, Ukraine committing war crimes is bad. Just like Ukraine's war crimes aren't an excuse for Russia to do whatever they want
I never once mentioned what they said about Ukraine. But if you want the answer, I am not taking them at their word because I remember seeing the videos of the Ukrainian military using ambulances
Here is one example
And another
Ukraine has been criticised before by organisations like the UN for hiding military equipment and soldiers in civilian areas
But all of this is irrelevant because you did not respond, asking for evidence, that would be fine. You tried to downplay Ukraines warcrimes by saying "but Russia" which is just trying to change the topic
biggesthumb@reddit
Imagine being invaded and being critized for moving military through civilian areas. LOL cmon man
Dependent-Dream7180@reddit
Not to mention his 2nd video is so blatantly fake.
crusadertank@reddit
Damn you guys really give Russia a run for their money on denial of everything.
Anything to protect Ukraines war crimes is guess.
Dependent-Dream7180@reddit
Wow you really edited out that blatantly fake video from your post and replaced it with an entirely different video after getting caught lol.
Original:
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/17sbbxh/ru_pov_afu_militants_load_antitank_weapons_into/
crusadertank@reddit
Lmao continue to deny and deflect that Ukraine is commiting war crimes if you want i guess.
Russian bots would be proud of you for how well you use their strategy
Amnesty International and the UN have criticised Ukraine for this. I hope you at least get paid for trying to defend war crimes
Dependent-Dream7180@reddit
Can you point out where I denied for deflected about Ukraine committing real war crimes? You posted a very obviously staged fake video which you then tried to hide only after I pointed it out.
biggesthumb@reddit
I didn't even look at em cause I can't tell where they are from on my phone..... accidently clicked it, and holy shit LOLOL, people believe anything
crusadertank@reddit
That's not what Ukraine has been criticised for
Here is the report for you. Amnesty international accusing Ukraine of
That is not "moving through civilian areas" but actively launching attacks and putting military bases in schools and hospitals
But let me guess, Amnesty International is Russian propaganda?
VintageGriffin@reddit
It does matter, at least for the western audience to know and be reminded of; since every time a kindergarten, school or supermarket gets blown up it's always a deliberate, callous, varbaric attack on the otherwise harmless civilian infrastructure.
KJongsDongUnYourFace@reddit
Russias largest drone strike of the entire war the other day (literally hundreds or drones + hypersonic missiles etc). Killed 1 civilian.
This is in no way a justification of Russias invasion, but it's ridiculous how the conflict is covered when compared to Israel's daily masacare
Winjin@reddit
I remember a photo from the first days of war that showed tanks hugging the walls of a kindergarten, and these photos were never shared on Reddit as far as I saw
Which makes me think those could be UA tanks
Then again, if the building is evacuated it doesn't really matter what it was in "civilian" times, now it's just a useful wall, it's not like there's toddlers inside
biggesthumb@reddit
Well, what were you waiting for?
sshwifty@reddit
They are a coward.
biggesthumb@reddit
Well, what was hit by that attack?
VintageGriffin@reddit
The popular counter argument to this has been that Ukrainian AA defense is just that good, and keeps shutting down 105% of everything that Russia sends their way, including hypersonics.
Ratheon stocks won't appreciate in price unless there's a use -and- an active promotion campaign running for their products; and everyone knows by this point that Patriot is the best thing ever.
It will take years before anyone admits that most of the random civilian damage taking place is caused by malfunctioning AA interceptors or debris from drones and rockets shut down over city limits. Until then everything will be Russia's fault, and all attacks would be targeted and deliberate.
the_lonely_creeper@reddit
This doesn't make Russia any more wrong:
It started this war
Redditbecamefacebook@reddit
I think people like you are more interested in trying to look for bad PR on your perceived opponents than acknowledge that fact that you currently support war criminals.
VintageGriffin@reddit
I read this sub, I see bullshit, I call out bullshit. It's that simple, really.
Is everything I read bullshit? No. Do I feel qualified calling out bullshit in areas that I don't feel like I have any expertise on? No.
If I felt petty enough I could have invoked the favorite counter argument from last year, and called your reply whataboutism; as in, I'm staying on topic of the post rather than trying to comment on "what about this case or that one".
Redditbecamefacebook@reddit
Your entire post is whatboutism. 'I'm making an unsourced reference to a claim that the UA is committing war crimes. See! They're even worse than us! They do it too!'
Except one country isn't invading the other and starving POWs and raping civilians.
VintageGriffin@reddit
I literally read the initial announcement, and inferred things from its original wording. There are not that many ways to interpret statements about moving the operations from the now destroyed recruitment center onto the territory of the local hospital and administrative building; and then to quickly get it those parts out.
I'm sorry you don't like to be told that what Ukraine is doing isn't all brave and heroic, and that this is what even you would consider a war crime.
I didn't make any references to anything having to do with Russia or their actions. Just added additional information to the topic of this post. You are the one that started bringing in all the other things and drawing comparisons.
biggesthumb@reddit
Then why didnt you post it or link it? Random "redditors" supporting russia dont tend to make good sources lol
VintageGriffin@reddit
The original post was made on a Telegram chat.
Czart@reddit
So, no link, no screenshot, just "they said that, trust me bro". Did they also say anything about a biolab under that hospital?
biggesthumb@reddit
K
VintageGriffin@reddit
I see that you are on a tight vocabulary budget, and I can respect that.
biggesthumb@reddit
You just can't prove your words, so you are boring me. Russian simps are all the same lol
Redditbecamefacebook@reddit
Except every time you post around here, it's something in support of Russia. Nobody is fooled. The only time you feel the need to 'call out bullshit' is when it's in support of Russia.
VintageGriffin@reddit
And your point is?
I have my own opinion on this conflict, you have yours. You however seem to think that yours is the only correct one, and because of that you have some kind of a moral high ground that gives you the right to denigrate and belittle your opponents.
I literally don't care enough about people with that kind of attitude to waste my time trying to fool them or anything like that. Don't give yourself too much credit.
Redditbecamefacebook@reddit
I think people who only post with an obvious agenda on topics like this are partisans and therefore inherently not worthy of trust.
I think you've established this multiple times over, and a counterpoint needs to be made, so that normal people who care about truth have a foothold in the conversation.
SamuelClemmens@reddit
Hold up, third party here. Are you completely unaware that Ukraine REPEATEDLY gets busted for this by Amnesty International and BBC, hell even the Ukrainian government admits to it (they just add a bunch of asterisks that this isn't actually a war crime because of technicalities, as to how true those are that is another matter)?
This has been going on since the early days of the war.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/08/ukraine-ukrainian-fighting-tactics-endanger-civilians/
Redditbecamefacebook@reddit
I'm well aware of the fact that war crimes are generally defined by who wins and who loses.
I believe that the person I'm responding to is an agenda poster and not somebody making those comments simply because they want people to know the truth.
I'd say given the magnitude of crimes Ukraine is the victim, not the perp.
VintageGriffin@reddit
Right, so, by having an opinion that's different from yours I have an obvious agenda to push, but you replying to my posts don't have one?
You're just "right", and I'm "wrong" and trying to poison the minds of the naive and uninformed "normal people"; and you feel it is your duty to set things straight and put me in my place.
Well, all right, whatever, if it makes you feel better about yourself or something.
As for that last part, I'll repeat myself again - I read the original announcement itself. I noticed the edit. I posted my comment about it. Everything else is entirely in your head, including a version of me that makes claims and justifies attacks.
Redditbecamefacebook@reddit
My agenda is the truth, your agenda is pro-Russia. It's not hard to pick a side in this fight if you have an ounce of integrity. One country is being attacked by a country trying to annex it. It's not a hard one to take a position on.
I'm all for it when people provide a counterpoint to pro-UA propaganda, so long as they're coming from a perspective of illuminating the truth, and not from the perspective of picking a side to win.
biggesthumb@reddit
https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/07/11/russias-july-8-attack-childrens-hospital-ukraine
VintageGriffin@reddit
Why don't you also link me some articles about Bucha, the blown up dam, or the attack on the civilian railway station early into the conflict.
I am not uninformed, I simply don't believe any of those have been deliberate Russian attacks, or even Russian attacks to being with. I'm not going to go into the details as to why, as it's both off topic, and if years of arguing counter arguments haven't managed to convince people like you then I certainly don't feel like crying either.
biggesthumb@reddit
Holy hell.... you dont believe they were deliberate, after so many of them? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
VintageGriffin@reddit
Well, since you asked, I do actually believe that they have been deliberate - we just disagree on who could have been behind them.
I find it odd how just about all of these events just happened to coincide with the start of some kind of big shot conference, meeting or a summit where Ukraine went to ask for more money and weapons to. Fresh reminders of barbaric atrocities and all that.
Redditbecamefacebook@reddit
Thanks for posting this. Now there's zero confusion that you're a Russian propagandist.
Imagine the kind of person you have to be, to suggest that country that's fighting for its existence has munitions to spare for use as false flag operations on its own civilians.
You've spent too much time under Putin, comrade. Most states don't bomb their own apartment complexes for political gain.
VintageGriffin@reddit
You got me.
Now do that thing from the 1978 movie "Invasion of the body snatchers".
https://youtu.be/wTP_SdjD5ms?si=G0jKa_ikAoLMUmje&t=93
Redditbecamefacebook@reddit
So, not even gonna pretend like what you said was sane, and instead try to shift the conversation.
It might be funny if you weren't advocating murdering people.
It's funny how you complain about UA conscription, but I'm guessing you don't mind when Russia leaves their dead in Ukraine so they don't have to pay out on the bags of onions their families were promised.
VintageGriffin@reddit
I didn't do any of these things.
I give you permission to go ahead and re-read all of my posts on this thread, and quote me where I did.
Redditbecamefacebook@reddit
.
Oh. So clever. Clearly taking notes from your mob bosses. If you never say anything explicitly, you can pretend that all your innuendo and insinuation has simply been misinterpreted.
VintageGriffin@reddit
Alright. Now I want you to tell me how that quote has anything to do with:
Do you have any other examples, perhaps?
I have no idea what in innuendo and insinuation you are talking about.
Feels like you've constructed an alter ego of myself that does all the bad things you want to hate about me. You should start charging it rent for occupying your headspace.
Redditbecamefacebook@reddit
I literally quoted you implying that Russian attacks were false flags to garner international support while UA was looking for more weapons.
You didn't say it explicitly, because you know what you implied is insane, and now you're pretending like you didn't say it.
You claim that you are in this sub to call out bullshit and then say things like that.
I feel like I've targeted you for exactly what you are. Somebody who is intent on spreading Russian propaganda with little respect for reality. Sometimes you're right, sometimes you're wrong, but because of your intent, you ruin discourse.
VintageGriffin@reddit
The other guy asked, I replied their question. You butted into that conversation and started making noise.
If there had been no question I would not have provided the answer, evident by my post above the question saying I would not be getting into the details.
You did your good deed for the day by confronting a Russian apologist. Take a break and treat yourself to a celebratory beer. You have a long battle ahead of you.
Redditbecamefacebook@reddit
Da, comrade.
I've been playing a video game while replying to you. It's not a battle. We have the luxury of arguing via keyboard.
VintageGriffin@reddit
The other guy asked, I replied their question. You butted into that conversation and started making noise.
If there had been no question I would not have provided the answer, evident by my post above the question saying I would not be getting into the details.
You did your good deed for the day by confronting a Russian apologist. Take a break and treat yourself to a celebratory beer. You have a long battle ahead of you.
biggesthumb@reddit
Do you really get paid in potatoes?
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
It is always a bad situation if anyone is even floating the idea of the country invading you is actually “liberating” or “helping” the people in that country.
Whether it is true or not does not matter.
The fact that people are even thinking it says a lot.
Especially so late in this war.
Imagine being 3.5 years into WW2 and describing the Nazis as “liberators”. It’s crazy.
MasterDefibrillator@reddit
I agree. Even in the case of WW2, its not clear to me who or what was liberated. All the countries involved came out of the conflict more authoritarian and repressive than they went in.
Sacaron_R3@reddit
Most of eastern and southern Europe was already heavily leaning fascist or expensionist before WW2, with countries like Poland using their newfound freedom to gobble up parts of their neighbours. Hungaria, Bulgaria, Romania, Poland and Austria were certainly not beacons of liberty standing against the red tide.
The people that really got screwed over afterwards were the baltics, while Denmark, Benelux, Norway and France regained their freedom.
And of course Italy came out on top, despite starting a lot of shit under Mussolini.
enterisys@reddit
Except russians are the new Nazis now.
History repeats itself, eh?
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
Well they aren’t even though many people want to think that.
enterisys@reddit
Except they are. All the facts are there.
WtIfOurAccsKisJKUnls@reddit
Except the only one floating this idea is the invader. It doesn't "say a lot", it says Russia hasn't dropped the initial lies it claimed when it first invaded.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
What initial lies?
It is proven fact NATO advanced to their borders.
omar1848liberal@reddit
Eh, morality aside, this is a very effective strategy, and incredibly damaging for Ukraine. Many men in Ukraine went into hiding due to TCC abuses.
Now, in context, TCC is gathering up draftees because Russia invaded, obviously, so you can’t paint Russia as the “benevolent” side, they caused in the first place. However, while there are exceptions, you’re far more likely to be harmed and killed, as a Ukrainian man, if the TCC caught you and sent you to the frontline as cannon fodder.
Ethically this isn’t a simple issue. If your county is invaded, are you morally obliged to defend it? Is it moral to force you to fight? Even if the statement that Russia wants to genocide the Ukrainians through erasure of identity or child kidnapping are to be believed, I don’t think that it makes it a simple answer.
What if you as an individual don’t like Ukraine or believe in it as a country or institutions? What if you believe this is a pointless losing fight? Forcing people to the military is not a given, even in extreme circumstances; in Gaza neither Hamas or any other faction drafted people, they’re all volunteers, and they’re going through a genocide. I think Gaza is an example that calls into serious question the whole morality of conscription.
Ultimately, every Russian soldier who went to fight in Ukraine (except DPR and LPR troops) is a volunteer. Conscripts died in Kursk, not Ukraine. Ukraine can’t dream of making that claim. And if the argument that they’re only surviving by kidnapping unwilling men and throwing them to the front, then maybe it’s time to ask if the moral imperative is to fight to the end or reach peace even if unfavorable and bitter. Of course, if peace only leads to further Russian aggression down the line, the morality of that endeavor also becomes questionable.
Ultimately, war is stupid, no matter why or what. Russia is in the wrong, but also Ukraine escalated in 2014 in Donbass instead of reaching a settlement early on, and for what? No political goal should be achieved by violence, ever, we need to value human life over lines on a map.
enterisys@reddit
"Ukraine escalated in 2014" "No political goal should be achieved by violence"
Wasn't russia the one who invaded Crimea and Donbas first??
omar1848liberal@reddit
Yes, and Ukraine launched a military operation just a few days later. The thing about violence to achieve political goals is that you can’t control how it goes. Instead of deploying troops to secure as much of the border as possible and contain what was, before the July 2014 offensive, just around 1000 troops, you ended up with hundreds of casualties, turned the Donbass population against you, and Russia attacked in August 2014 turning the conflict into a frozen mess and giving the rebels significant and now largely loyal territory. Remember Ukraine since the earliest days deployed right sector in operations there, and despite the spark launched by Girkin, there were many instances where protesters themselves took control of settlements.
Ukraine broadly after Maidan was a shitshow. Escalating was the wrong move, not legally or even morally, but consequentially. Is Ukraine better off now? No. Is it because of Russia? Yes. But they have power over their reactions and understood the delicate situation they were in. Mind you, Ukraine is in the moral and legal right, that’s not the argument I’m making. But even if you are right, if how you go about your goals end up backfiring, what do you have to show for?
enterisys@reddit
And you expected them to lay back and watch how puten takes over whole of Ukraine? That's not how Independent democratic countries work...
2014 Ukraine has 0 chances joining EU and NATO. Now they are almost in EU and only need US approval (next president) to join NATO.
omar1848liberal@reddit
Lmfao, if you think that you live in an alternate reality
enterisys@reddit
It's a fact. Facts don't care what I think.
Boner-Salad728@reddit
Real soft power, fucking finally.
Hello, this is FSB, we need you to burn TCC building for 10000 hryvnas, we will provide materials…
Sure, but there is one condition for that.
We are ready to discuss.
My wage is low so I will pay in chunks, deal?
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
What is really interesting is how war changes loyalties in the modern world, with all its various financial shackles.
Russia cancels all debt held by civilians in the occupied territories.
Mortgage? Car loan? Business loan?
All gone. Wiped clean.
One huge problem in Ukraine is land ownership. Zelenskyy passed a land “reform” law back in 2021 that allowed the sale of farmland.
Russia returned land deeds to the people who owned them.
So you have lots of regular people in the occupied areas who support Russian control.
No one is going to fight to go back into debt.
There are alot of other examples of Russian soft power.
You also have Russia creating 50/50 public private partnerships to reopen factories to give people good jobs.
Or Russia paying out pensions at Russian level.
Ukraine’s pensions are ~$55 a month.
Russia’s pension is ~ $300 a month.
WillingnessHeavy8622@reddit
Bullet in the head for speaking Ukrainian is perfect example of russian soft power.
Basically in every post related to Ukraine I see you spreading absolute, 100% pure russian propaganda, it literally give me vibes of russian channels where they speak to each other.
Why's that? Maybe you choose wrong country in your flair?
biggesthumb@reddit
Huh
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