8gb RAM work laptop
Posted by agile_crossover@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 195 comments
Hey there -- starting a new job next week and I just got my work laptop. To my dismay it only has 8GB of RAM :(
For context, I'm full stack but will be working primarily on backend - Python, React, Postgres - local dev in Docker containers.
Two part question:
-
I'm thinking about pushing back and asking for a machine with more RAM, but I wanted to sanity check that? To me, 16 feels like the bare minimum especially when it comes to using Docker on a mac. Feels like the $400 or whatever extra would be made up in additional productivity quite quickly.
-
Any tips on developing with limited memory? Thinking of moving away from Chrome and Docker Desktop to start, but I'm looking for tips and tricks people have picked up to help. I'm also just curious to know people's tricks anyways.
Thanks!
Sheldor5@reddit
if its no MacBook M4 Pro with max specs I ain't work there
son_ov_kwani@reddit
Sometimes the companies with such budgets don’t always hire and it’s the small startup hiring but with limited hardware and with job market it’d be better to take what’s available while you wait for a better job.
Sheldor5@reddit
the notebook costs less than a dev's month's salary, if they can't afford the best hardware (one-time cost) how can they afford an employee (higher monthly cost)??
avoid those companies at all cost because they are led by greedy idiots
evergreen-spacecat@reddit
A true greedy idiot would hand out high end specs to pay as little as possible per feature.
pheonixblade9@reddit
it costs less than a day or two of their salary, tbh.
son_ov_kwani@reddit
In third world countries guys are willing to accept. I don’t think that can happen in 1st world nations.
son_ov_kwani@reddit
The younger me was unemployed and it was hard to find jobs. In third world countries where unemployment is so rampant. One can’t afford the luxury of avoiding to work with such companies.
soundman32@reddit
$400 for 32gb? Ahh its a Mac. Say no more. It's nearer $130 for a non-mac.
evergreen-spacecat@reddit
$400 is nothing when counting to dev prosuctivity
Constant-Listen834@reddit
To be fair the unified memory architecture on the Mac’s is impressive af and gives huge perf gains. Not really surprising it’s significantly more expensive to add memory vs computers with traditional ram sticks
chaitanyathengdi@reddit
They want to milk consumers, so that choice is deliberate.
Constant-Listen834@reddit
Maybe. The laptops are pretty insane value for what they cost though. Certainly way better value than any other laptop on the market
Canadianingermany@reddit
holy shit - I make sure my account managers (ie non developers) have 16. 8 is fucking insane.
Merlinoz@reddit
8GB is not enough unless you are running a very lean linux distro.
I'm on Windows, there's no way I can dev with 8GB and keep my sanity haha
16 is enough. I have 32 now. and I would also highly recommend M.2. nvme drive
SuddenOutlandishness@reddit
Minimum dev machine these days is like a 15” MacBook Air with 24gb. A proper 16” Pro with 32gb, preferably 48gb or 64gb. Developers need work trucks. F350. You’ve been given a Toyota Yaris.
th3_pund1t@reddit
Spin up a big-ass cloud instance and do remote dev?
YetMoreSpaceDust@reddit
Yeah I've worked that way in the past - just push everything to an EC2 instance. You can even run an X server on there and run an IDE up there. It's slow, but trying to to development work with 8GB is slower.
But yeah, definitely push back on the laptop, you're not going to be able to get anything done.
Western_Objective209@reddit
Man 8GB of RAM is a lot. Like an array with 1 million elements is like 10s of millions of MB. That's basically a medium sized database. People acting like it's nothing is crazy; if you are working in docker a lot just have it deploy on CICD and save some RAM. All of your RAM is for IDE and browser, and 8 GB should be enough
chaitanyathengdi@reddit
Dude I used to use 8 GB 10 years ago.
Western_Objective209@reddit
The more RAM your laptop has the more will just sit used. My work laptop has 64 GB of RAM and that thing "idles" at using like 24GB
chaitanyathengdi@reddit
Now go back to 8GB.
Western_Objective209@reddit
I had an 8GB work laptop that I ran visual studio 2017 and it was fine. It was Windows 10 days, so maybe Windows 11 is so bloated it's not possible anymore
Shazvox@reddit
Maybe if your IDE is notepad...
Western_Objective209@reddit
your browser is only going to use like 1-2gb max in a low RAM environment, your IDE will have like 4-5gb available
malln1nja@reddit
These days you don't even need X/RDP/NoMachine/Parsec/etc. JetBrains IDEs (*) and VSCode works in client-server mode. It tends to be more responsive than a full on remote desktop.
(*) not sure if a JetBrains IDE would be happy with 8Gb, even if only the frontend is running locally.
Ok-Scheme-913@reddit
Intellij is not that hungry - most of it is just caching the codebase so auto complete can be relevant and actually useful. If that goes to live in the cloud, the rest wouldn't need all that many memory.
the-code-father@reddit
This is how pretty much every line of code at Meta is written these days. Everyone uses a cloud host connected to local vscode. The editing experience is pretty great
Internal_Outcome_182@reddit
"Editing experience is solid" - wow year 2025 text editor is not lagging..
MaybeARunnerTomorrow@reddit
Does this also work for (or is there a plugin for) Visual Studio? I've got some older C#/.NET solutions that were built using it. I'm not sure if VSCode also works for those
Shehzman@reddit
Doesn’t work for Visual Studio but you could use Rider which does have remote SSH support like VSCode.
DaRadioman@reddit
Magic requires effectively a web tunnel with commands running on the remote machine. Aka needs the work to be able to be offloaded to a backend.
VsCode can do this easily since it's all electron and already has calls going to language servers etc using a remoting pattern.
VS is a heavyweight fully integrated IDE. It's impossible to just split that easily.
Spanone1@reddit
no
StateParkMasturbator@reddit
VSCode is murder on server resources and will slow-crash any instance I throw it at because of basic, default intellisense plugins. Unless they fixed that by now, which I doubt.
Shehzman@reddit
Ran VSCode server on a VPS last week with 1GB RAM and a single core and it was fine. Though I definitely needed more RAM as I was at 700MB just using it for editing config files and SSH scripts.
StateParkMasturbator@reddit
Yeah. I just remembered what it actually was. The Typescript and JavaScript Language Features extension. If you're not touching JS/TS, it's good to go.
seanwilson@reddit
How fast is this for frontend work? Are you connecting your local browser to the remote web server? Feels like it would keep redownloading the page assets (images, js, css) each time you made a change.
Varrianda@reddit
Sounds awful
midwestcsstudent@reddit
Will cost more than the upgrade over the lifetime of the machine lol
burger-breath@reddit
Yep, tell them they can either give you appropriate hardware, or pay the AWS bill & deal with any IP/security issues that come with you rolling your own..
Shehzman@reddit
This is what I do with my home server running Proxmox. Spin up an LXC with however many resources I need and use VSCode’s remote SSH extension to do development for personal projects/POCs. Works great!
Alarmed_Inflation196@reddit
🚩🚩🚩🚩
08148694@reddit
What specs do the rest of the team have?
If you have the same, you probably have no recourse. Ask your colleagues about their workflows and tools
If you have less, ask for an upgrade
Constant-Listen834@reddit
I will add, the MacBooks (which it sounds like OP is getting) are pretty ram efficient due to the unified memory architecture. Ofc it depends on the application but I did notice I was able to do a lot more on my Mac with 16gb than on my windows machine with 16gb.
Probably worth giving it a shot first, the apple silicon is pretty damn impressive
donjulioanejo@reddit
They are, but 8 GB even on a Mac is barely enough to run a few Chrome tabs and not much else.
eddie_cat@reddit
This is so not even true lol. It's fine on windows too. My personal laptop has 8gb on windows and I am someone who always has a ton of tabs. I also can play many games on it. Y'all are ridiculous 😂
David_AnkiDroid@reddit
Entry level MacBooks aren't sold with 8GB RAM any more. It's not sufficient.
(...heck, 32GB isn't sufficient for some of my dev workflows)
AFAIK, it's not unified memory (unified memory ends up using up more RAM than a discrete GPU). OS-level optimizations, general high quality components, and SSD performance (soldered) make the machine more responsive than Windows.
fullouterjoin@reddit
90% of it is ssd bandwidth for swapping. Machine can easily be doing 400MB/s continuous due to memory exhaustion and as long as you have sufficient free space, it does ok.
That said, I'd make the case for a 32GB minimum refresh of all laptops and if they don't do it, I'd leave because of all the other organizational dysfunctional tells.
chicknfly@reddit
I feel like it was early COVID when people were still touting how sufficient 16GB should be. Now we’re here pushing 32GB a few years later. I wonder what we will be saying in the year 2030
fullouterjoin@reddit
I miss computers
David_AnkiDroid@reddit
From memory, you were looking at a minimum of 4GB/s on the M1 MacBook SSD, with significant increases up to 4TB of disk space.
I'm currently at 48GB used currently [fairly 'light': no Local LLM/Docker/emulators]. I couldn't imagine anything close to a good experience trying this with 8GB.
fullouterjoin@reddit
Oh, no I am in no way recommending it, but for occasional over memory scenarios, it is pretty good compared to a hard lockup. Hey things are slow, let me kill chrome is better than, oh it looks like I am rebooting not by choice.
VintageModified@reddit
I can second this. I have a base configuration M1 Mac mini with 8gb RAM, and I've never had any problems unless the internal drive is too full (no room for swap at that point I assume).
Whether I have multiple node projects running in VS code, 20 chrome tabs, or working on a full concert band arrangement in Musescore, or a dense logic session with dozens of instruments, everything pretty much always runs smooth.
WineGunsAndRadio@reddit
This is a horseshit answer. It's 2025, and nobody should be given a laptop with 8Gb of RAM, not even a receptionist for email work.
heubergen1@reddit
I take 8GB of RAM any day together with a 128GB SSD because I don't need more. Not everyone has a desire to run these awful electron apps in the background.
coloredgreyscale@reddit
Plus a decent high end laptop is probably 1-2 weeks of his pay, and should work decently for 3-5 years.
(unless OP is from developing nation)
r_vade@reddit
Especially the receptionist! How would they run Chrome if they don’t have at least 32GB or RAM?
coloredgreyscale@reddit
Close the ms office suite, then open chrome ;)
youassassin@reddit
Doesn’t change the fact that is what some of my devs on our team got. They quickly got upgraded to a whole 16Gb. This is all on a vdi that uses graphics memory instead. It’s sad.
putocrata@reddit
I quit a job for having to work with VDIs. It's psychological torture
Lyelinn@reddit
Even phones have more now lol
agile_crossover@reddit (OP)
that's fair - I'll see what folks have when I start on Monday.
I suppose it's either 1. there is no problem and the workflows are fine or 2. 8GB is too low and everyone is feeling the pain and it should be a more collective problem anyways.
TotallyNormalSquid@reddit
Everyone on my team has 16GB laptops, but not the same laptops. Some of us have our work grind to a halt regularly as things refuse to do anything, others use the same programs with no issue. Line manager wasn't aware of any available fix, thought I was on the 'dev' tier laptop.
Investigated with IT myself and discovered multiple better options, the cheapest being a self-install RAM upgrade. It wasn't much to upgrade to 64GB, but opening up my work laptop myself was a bit more fiddly than I expected. Crappy laptop now works fine though.
Try asking your IT department directly and then go to your boss if they have options?
alinroc@reddit
Sounds like OP was issued at Mac, so a RAM upgrade isn't in the cards.
And if it is a Mac, they were issued an old one. 16GB has been the baseline for Macs since this time last year.
normalmighty@reddit
They don't have no recourse if it's the same for everyone, but the nature of the problem changes.
I've worked with a couple of dev teams with machines this low spec before, and both times they had no idea how much slower their workflow was than it would be with more reasonable machines. Instead of personally pushing for their machine to be upgraded, OP would need to get a discussion going within the team about whether the machines have been hampering productivity all along.
eddie_cat@reddit
Why would you need more than that? You have not actually said what kind of shit you're working on and 8gb can easily handle most dev workloads
casualPlayerThink@reddit
You either need to have a dev server (like an older notebook or microPC with 32 GB of RAM and a bunch of cores and good network speed) and delegate out all the heavy lifting (to connect everything together and update your workflow will have its own challenges and will be sometimes time consuming), or ask for a proper machine with 32GB ram.
[TL;DR]
If the company cries out for prices for business machines, such as MacBook Pros, then ask for an entry-level gaming notebook. The build quality won't be worse, the hardware will be in pair if not stronger, and you can install Linux on them without an issue, expanding/having a high amount of RAM won't be a problem after that.
HolyPommeDeTerre@reddit
You're sure about the local dev in containers ? Feels weird to give 8gb for running a dev env. But going for a remote dev, 8gb can be fine as long as the VM running the env has far more.
(I currently have 16gb local, 64gb remote)
pheonixblade9@reddit
when I was at Google compiling Chrome and Android on a regular basis, I think I had 192 CPU cores and 768GB of RAM. It still took 15 minutes, but far better than the 45 minutes it took with the old machines. those were definitely expensive machines to run, though.
edgmnt_net@reddit
I used to build Android 4-7 on a 6 GiB machine and a relatively budget quad-core CPU at home quite some time ago. It was fine. A full build took a long time but that's expected. It's not the kind of thing you expect to work like hot reloading JS code.
pheonixblade9@reddit
I was building full OEM images from source for Android and Chromebooks. Chrome took longer. The process for OEM builds at Google is much, much heavier duty than vanilla AOSP. The process is similar, but there's a lot of extra stuff.
https://www.chromium.org/developers/how-tos/get-the-code/
https://source.android.com/docs/setup/build/building
Also, my TC at Google was something like $500k.
$500k / 2080 working hours in a year = $240/hr for my time. add 50% or more for benefits and overhead, so round it out to $400/hr for my time.
it's very worth it to buy extremely beefy machines for your devs to save 15 minutes on every build when you consider that 15 minutes of my time costs the company $100. add a buffer in there for losing focus time and it's even more.
and no, I can't just magically switch contexts without any kind of loss whenever a build happens. I can do other lightweight stuff like grabbing a cup of tea or stretching my legs, but I don't want to get out of the focus zone.
That's the point of that line of the Joel test. good equipment is expensive. engineers are very expensive.
edgmnt_net@reddit
To be more precise I was building LineageOS images for my Nexus 4, so I guess that's slightly heavier than barebones AOSP? I'm also sure that things got heavier over the years and that's no longer reasonable.
Also, yeah, labor is generally more expensive than hardware costs, so I agree it doesn't make sense to cut costs there on its own, unless other considerations apply, like vendor lock-in or ever-increasing requirements due to process issues (good luck getting fully isolated deployments for everyone for certain oversized projects in the cloud).
pheonixblade9@reddit
Yeah, I mean... I worked at Google. There are certain advantages. Not everybody can spin up a monster VM like that, but the VMs I was using were still only like $11/hr retail as a GCP customer.
wellings@reddit
Honestly, 8gb would be hard on your browser let alone a dev environment. I've got about 4gb of tabs open on my machine right at this minute.
It's a shame but browsers (and internet resources) are so, so bloated these days.
HolyPommeDeTerre@reddit
Yeah, I tend to just restart the computer at some point, restore the history, but not reload all the tabs. Just the essentials
bravopapa99@reddit
Do your best. Ask for upgrade, sounds like you got the shit laptop for joining last, a time honoured tradition but not very productive.
Jaryd7@reddit
Had the same problem a while ago. Company gave me 8GB RAM laptop, complained, got 16GB. Still wasn't enough. With just the bare minium of programms running for my work that RAM was already full.
Tasks like building localy that should have taken about a minute for that project, took 5-10 minutes. That time adds up fast. In the end I propably spend an hour longer every day waiting than I would have to if I just had more RAM.
So:
Push back, tell them you need those 16GB at the absolute minium. Experience shows, you can get away with less RAM on a MAC compared to a Windows machine, but still even on MAC I would say for development work, 16GB is not enough. Make it clear to them, that less RAM directly inhibits your performance.
Start shutting down everything you don't need.
Do you have an Outlook running and Microsoft 365? Kill the outlook client open it in a browser tab, same for Teams. Doesn't safe much, but a bit.
The only other advice I can give is, close browser tabs when you don't need them any more, same for opened files in your IDE.
SquarePleasant9538@reddit
Yeah less than 16GB is unacceptable in 2025. I’d see that as an indicator of things to come.
robberviet@reddit
8GB is impossible to work with at the moment. Ask for something else.
pheonixblade9@reddit
Joel test #9:
chaitanyathengdi@reddit
Can relate to this
pheonixblade9@reddit
my compilations of chromium at Google took 45 minutes until they got us specialist machines with 192 cores and close to a terabyte of RAM. then it took 15 minutes, lol.
audentis@reddit
Can't you just slot in extra RAM? Should be a lot cheaper than replacing the laptop.
sebzilla@reddit
It's a Mac, which is a SoC so there are no "ram slots".
audentis@reddit
Well there's your problem :')
kkBaudelaire@reddit
According to my exp, 8 gigs is enough for majority of tasks and projects. But yes, it would be decent to have 16 gigs.
Tenelia@reddit
I've had to use such a laptop whilst in Google (part of UX empathy workshop). What worked well was migrating everything to cloud editors and cloud consoles. Microsoft Edge had several options in settings that minimized system resources, whilst also allowing progressive webapps to run almost natively by caching whatever they can from the domains.
P.S. My VSCode uses almost 4.5GB just by starting up...
Dobata988@reddit
Yeah, totally fair to push back 8GB on a Mac running Docker for backend work is rough. 16GB really is the minimum if you want to stay productive. You can get by for now by ditching Chrome, swapping Docker Desktop for Colima, and offloading heavier stuff like Postgres to the cloud, but honestly, the $400 for a RAM upgrade would pay for itself quickly.
Independent_Grab_242@reddit
I got 8GB in two jobs down from 32.
I made both times the request in the first week and until I left the new specs Laptops were still coming.
The second time, on day 2 I spoke with a Director and her answer was "Why engineers need different laptops than sales people?" I'm like keep it low and suck it up, you can't argue with their 80 IQ.
chaitanyathengdi@reddit
Typical "your development should happen on the same kind of computer that the users have"
(so that the final product runs on their machines)
Proudly showing off their ignorance.
fuka123@reddit
I want to work there. Seriously sounds perfect to sluff off
WJMazepas@reddit
Man, that will suck.
If you can't get a new laptop, you will have to install it directly instead of using docker(on Mac, it does use a lot of memory) and connect to a cloud dev database
The database you can have a local copy for when you really need to make a lot of changes there
And of course, spin up the front end and backend only when you need both. Otherwise, work only on one of them
And maybe change to Firefox? That could save some memory too, but I don't know if on Mac it also uses less memory
KevinT_XY@reddit
People overreact on how much memory a device really needs - there is a ridiculous notion in the gaming world particularly that having less than 32GB RAM or less than 12GB VRAM is effectively a garbage machine but it's completely untrue for nearly all setups and the loads my personal machine handles is testament to it.
That said, containers do need memory, so your best bet is to actually just try your dev workflow and figure out how much it needs and if it's an issue for your dev loop. I suspect this device has other compromises like processor speed which may also take play here, as this is likely a budget device.
TheSilentCheese@reddit
Less than 12 IS garbage. My 13 year old machine had 8GB and it struggled and crawled during win10 updates because of the swap space on hdd. Upgrading to swap space on SSD helped immensely, but still constant swap use was only needed because of inadequate memory.
edgmnt_net@reddit
Or maybe Windows is just bloated.
TheSilentCheese@reddit
Certainly not arguing with that.
caboosetp@reddit
I mostly agree.
I'm dying on 32gb right now, but I've been on projects that were fine with 16gb.
Try and see is the best approach. Premature optimization is an anti-pattern and every solution is different.
edgmnt_net@reddit
Containers do need memory but very little on their own. The VM that hosts them (for Docker Desktop say) needs more, but that's not a given. And if your project is a mess of dozens of containers that barely share anything, yeah, you will have issues.
79215185-1feb-44c6@reddit
This is a red flag.
sbox_86@reddit
This.
Maybe they pulled the wrong used MacBook off the shelf to give to the OP. Maybe OP is literally the first technical hire and CEO doesn't understand anything about software dev.
Any other explanation is that there is profoundly poor judgement from management, or the budget is slim that OP should worry about paychecks clearing.
79215185-1feb-44c6@reddit
Taking ownership over your hardware + development process is also something that I heavily focus on. I have coworkers who are little lemmings with their 10 year old laptops, and whenever I push them to ask management for new hardware (or to buy their own) they never follow through. Here I am on the other side of that, with my own home workstation I'm actually able to care about the difference in hardware vs what I use and what I have in the office (the stuff at home allows me to get my job quicker by orders of magnitude). I used to have to wait 45 minutes for something to build on company servers (Because the servers are specced as data center hardware with priority to core counts rather than IPC) that now gets done in 10.
The issue is people like OP and even OP's manager don't understand (or don't want to understand) the art behind efficiency. Put your 8 hours in and never think about h ow much of that 8 hours is actually effectively utilized and how many hours a day you can save just by having a faster CI/CD pipeline.
alinroc@reddit
There are a lot of companies where it's not possible to use your own hardware.
79215185-1feb-44c6@reddit
This comment is more about learning to "clean your room" (God I hate where this originates, but it's extremely relevant here). I know architect level people who will not manage their own hardware, and will insist that other people (who have better things to do BTW) set their hardware up for them. They won't ask IT people either - they will ask Junior Engineers. This also has a lot to do with bettering your own tooling. If you're using 10 year old hardware, you're likely also using 10 year old software, and 10 year old design techniques making you a weaker IC and making it so progress slows down for not only you but your entire org.
If this is acceptable to you and your org, that's fine by me, but it's not acceptable to me, and I practice something called "Taking ownership" where if there's a need for improvement (and there is always need for improvement), I make the improvement and then try and champion it to my coworkers. My coworkers also hate me for it, because I'm interested in pushing new processes when they are fine with what they know.
Man tangent time sorry,
One of the latest processes I am pushing is that we adopt newer CI/CD techniques through Gitlab CI and Proxmox vs using "the same old tooling" we've used for a decade with Jenkins and ESXi (Not even ESXi 7 either - we're still on 6). I've gotten a grand total of 3 people (2 of those are my direct bosses so that's all that matteres) bought in, but progress is always slow. I do expect that some Engineers will be "stuck in their ways" for at least another year as I build the platform up.
Anyways, why am I rambling about this? Obviously it is a hell of a lot easier to adopt ownership if you're in the position where you can define processes (like I am) but there's nothing stopping an IC from making suggestions to improve processes. What I find in my experience is that ICs simply are unaware that they can do this, or just don't want to do this and that's discouraging to me, but I'm not at all surprised because people don't take that kind of ownership easily.
Here at my org, work dedicates hardware to engineers (on prem, we have our own data center and are 100% WFH) but it's the engineer's responsibility to allocate resources to themselves. What happens is that basically everyone end up using the same decaying ESXi cluster, without consideration that they could just ask for a dedicated machine (we have plenty of these) so that don't have to share resources with our QA team that has a combined ~200 VMs they're constantly running and that's on top of our CI/CD which is dozens of VMs. Completely apathetic towards the idea that their days could be easier if they just allocated hardware to themselves like I have for years (and I also have my home system I run stuff on as we don't have a policy on this).
alinroc@reddit
I think you misunderstand.
I meant that it's only possible to use the hardware issued by the company. As opposed to buying your own laptop for work. Regulated industries, high-security companies, etc. My last company, I couldn't even log onto webmail (M365) unless I was using a corporate-managed device enrolled in Intune, let alone do any "real" work.
79215185-1feb-44c6@reddit
I just wouldn't work for a company like this. I know not everyone has the option, but I really enjoy the freedom that 2 of the 3 companies I've worked at provided me.
jaskij@reddit
One thing I always advocate for in small companies is self hosting the CI/CD runners. You can get reasonably specced consumer grade kit well under 2k USD, and it's miles faster than whatever you'd get in the cloud for that money over three years.
You really don't need five nines on CI. Two nines is good enough, and reasonably achievable with a consumer grade box sitting in an office corner, if you don't lose power often.
Also: stop installing software as part of the pipeline!
Re: machine specs, I'd argue RAM is the most important thing, even before the processor or drive. A relatively modern processor with six or eight cores, any random NVMe with cache, but there's never enough RAM.
reParaoh@reddit
Id need enough work for something like that to matter. Most of the time management can't decide on what I'm supposed to be working on.. who cares if compiling takes 45 minutes? They're going to shitcan that project and give us something new in 6 months. Se la vie.
79215185-1feb-44c6@reddit
Better than 6 months of watching another engineer fumble around trying to root cause an issue that likely doesn't exist.
oditogre@reddit
It has to be this, or it's a huuuuge red flag.
The lowest-spec bare-base current-gen MacBook Air has 16GB RAM.
FrickenHamster@reddit
Every job I know of that didn't give developers a high end MBP or better has always ended up being horrible in multiple ways.
Weird_Cantaloupe2757@reddit
Yes it demonstrates clearly that the leadership are fucking morons — they are saving a few hundred bucks one time cost in exchange for literally tens of thousands of dollars per year, per developer in productivity. Even 16 GB will result in significant lost productivity, but 8 GB will be a constant slog every single day, with developers altering everything about their workflows (and getting less done in the meantime) to avoid swapping.
pheonixblade9@reddit
yep, as said as a top level comment, it fails the joel test.
https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/08/09/the-joel-test-12-steps-to-better-code/
DependentOnIt@reddit
Stealing bug database. Jira sucks ass. This is a great idea
danknadoflex@reddit
Yeah they have no clue what they’re doing
reosanchiz@reddit
Whatever you do! Don't work with this shitti machine, seriously this gonna gove you anxiety and stress.
Royale_AJS@reddit
Learn to memory conscience in your code : )
For real a quality 32GB SO-DIMM stick is dirty cheap these days. My devs don’t get less than 32GB. They can all spin up our entire environment on their local machines easily.
dutchman76@reddit
32Gb is my minimum these days. I'd buy my own machine tbh. Mechanics have to buy their own tools, nice if the boss buys them for you, but I'd rather be productive than cheap
johntellsall@reddit
Option:
codeserver
, you can run Vscode on a remote host. This means the editor, all shells and processes run on the "fast" server, with as much cheap ram as you desire. Connect to the editor via a browser.Another option is Vscode with remote mode: shells and processes run on the fast server, editor runs locally.
I do personal development on a 8 GB chromebook, running everything locally, but no Docker containers. Python, Sqlite, plotting. The browser starves if I open more than 20 tabs, which is a bummer, but managable.
I have toyed with going with the "remote codeserver" thing but the chromebook -- even with a local Linux vm -- is fast enough I haven't bothered. (Reiterate: no Docker containers atm)
We live in awesome times!
hell_razer18@reddit
I remember I talked with some google employee that they have chr9mebook connected with vscode. I was surprised that it worked so well but it probably require a decent infra setting to make a good devex.
I am happy where I am though that I can use my own machine to do work stuff because my company is poor ass dirt cheap. Still some compliance need to be set up for audit purpose.
Humdaak_9000@reddit
I just bought 64G of Crucial memory for a Mac Mini.
It was $180.
CNNSOS@reddit
What model Mac mini do you have?
Humdaak_9000@reddit
2018 i7. Top of the line at the time. Still makes a decent CAD machine and Wintendo with an eGPU.
LordofRice@reddit
If you’re using windows you need at least 16 gb. That would really piss me off because RAM is like $50
PetroarZed@reddit
I can't imagine a full stack machine with less than 32gb today, preferably more like 64. 8 is insane, there's a lot of things you won't even be able to run locally.
woeful_cabbage@reddit
What is something you can't run locally
CoroteDeMelancia@reddit
You'd be surprised how much RAM you can consume with a devcontainer running a backend, a frontend, and a database, an IDE, Chrome and a Slack meeting running all at the same time.
FoxyWheels@reddit
My machine idles at 18GB of RAM usage with teams, zoom, outlook, VPN, and all the security / motoring BS my employer has locked to auto start and always run.
FoxyWheels@reddit
k8s cluster of multiple containers
compiling a large codebase with other heavy programs still running
multiple VMs
many different databases (eg. Elastic search)
hardware emulators
anything processing large amounts of data
Lots of things? Windows barely runs with 8GB of RAM.
ansraliant@reddit
8GB is more than enough man. In fact, I am still with only 8GB of memory, and honestly, have no issues.
Moving away from Chrome and Docker Desktop is a good start, but If you are already used to those tools, it might be difficult to code with that restriction. What I'm saying is that it can be done, but you will need to get used to new tools and perhaps different workflows which will hurt your productivity.
if you are willing to try it, then I would suggest: - rather than IDE use a text editor, or even better a terminal based editor - less is more. More terminal based tools, less cluttered GUI and more TUI - forget about Electron based apps, any of them - try running your apps without docker. If you are in mac, you will save the whole VM running. If you are on linux, not much change there.
just my 5cents. Good luck man.
Legote@reddit
Same in my last job. They gave me a 16gb i5 and the head of IT said these are powerful beasts in a world where 64 gb should be the minimum. I wanted to pull my hair.
Anyways, it makes no sense to give you a shitty laptop because the most expensive cost is your time.
putocrata@reddit
I'm assuming the disk is an nvme, just increase your swap space. if it's Linux you can use like xfce instead of gnome
but 8gb is shitty af, 16 would also be shitty IMO. minimum 32.
siliconwolf13@reddit
Suggesting swap as an alternative to memory for software dev is ridiculous lmao. The speed isn't comparable, even if it's an SSD.
edgmnt_net@reddit
Linux should be fine with 8 GiB RAM even without NVMe swap for what they said. Docker is cheap, the only thing that's more intensive is some of the recent browsers, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were much leaner alternatives as long as you didn't need anything really specific. PostgreSQL shouldn't be a problem either, especially in a dev setup.
I don't know when we normalized those huge memory capacities. About 10 years ago I could build a lot of stuff on Linux with even less than 8 GiB RAM. Linux didn't change that much.
Maybe it was those microservices-based setups where you needed to run dozens of them and they all had different deps and huge runtimes.
Specialist-Region241@reddit
NVMe is not a type of disk ☝️🤓
putocrata@reddit
C'mon nvme ssd 🤣 I said that because it has much lower latencies that a SATA SSD, and it you'll have your systems running smooth even with low ram in most workloads (it will trash the SSD anyway but who cares)
sebzilla@reddit
If it's an 8GB laptop, what are the odds that it has a top-end NVME drive? Pretty low..
defmacro-jam@reddit
It is, however, a potential swap space - which is what the previous commenter was suggesting.
CoroteDeMelancia@reddit
Jetbrains Gateway. It is the standard way we work at the company I'm at and it works wonders.
ryemigie@reddit
I just bought a $999 USD 32GB of RAM Lenovo IdeaPad Pro with the latest AMD Ryzen AI 350, 1TB SSD, OLED screen etc. amazing Macbook-like quality.
If they can't afford something like that, they can't afford to hire people.
ClownScientist@reddit
Yeah I had this issue with my work assigned mac but it turned out to be enough surprisingly for full stack dev
MudMassive2861@reddit
I had a tough time running Docker and Kubernetes with just 32GB of RAM. What are you going to do with 8GB? I suggest you get a Mac Pro with 16GB of RAM. That way, you’ll be all set. And don’t listen to anyone who thinks 8GB is enough for you.
JWolf1672@reddit
16 should be the minimum anyone gets these days, for devs, 32 or 64 should be expected
Rschwoerer@reddit
Man Figma alone uses 4GB per tab! I use up all 32GB all the time.
pachumelajapi@reddit
Tbh if you have a spare computer laying around your house, run docker there and connect to it over your network. Itll be very snappy if youre wired and you wont be killing your computer.
pachumelajapi@reddit
The new ones dont even come with 8 gb anymore…
Qwertycrackers@reddit
Lol at 8 GB RAM being "limited memory" nowadays. It wasn't too long ago that 8 G was premium, for a long time it was standard. This is the first time I've seen it called "limited" haha. How the times change.
Anyways I do agree that they've given you a pretty underpowered machine for the big 25. My ideas:
Developing with 8G is very much still possible (most of us did it for many years). You'll want to stay on top of what's using memory for you. In particular Docker on Mac will become impractical, as you noted. Avoiding Chrome will also help, both of those are good starts.
If it's really an early stage startup, they probably have super loose IT control practices. So they could be open to you doing BYOD and just using whatever laptop you have and want to dedicate to this job. Some will clutch pearls at this but I've worked at several successful startups with this policy.
old_man_snowflake@reddit
The older you get the more insane the gaps become. I remember when the first 1gb hard drives came out. Infinite storage! I remember my first computer was a 486dx with, iirc, 8mb ram. On those chipsets you couldn’t have more than 64mb ram.
The growth is absolutely mind boggling.
Yodiddlyyo@reddit
Yes people worked with 8gb for years, but that doesn't mean it's currently feasible. My first laptop had 1GB on ram. It worked fine for a long time. That doesn't mean it's even possible to run a modern machine with 1gb of ram today. 8gb is too low. I have a few ides open, a few dev servers, and a few chrome tabs open and that's 20gb. I l can't even imagine how inefficient I would be if I was forced to use 8gb.
nickbob00@reddit
I had 16GB of ram since 2015, and that's having access to a couple of remote machines and an HPC cluster for all the "real" calculations
Sea-Us-RTO@reddit
chrome and slack alone will eat 8gb ram as an appetizer, its not a fun way to work.
account22222221@reddit
Have you started the job yet? You could be a cloud shop and they expect you to spin dev resources in AWS? It’s not a totally uncommon way to do work.
Sea-Us-RTO@reddit
heh. chrome and slack alone will eat 8gb ram as an appetizer
account22222221@reddit
They both work fine one 8gb. To many people don’t understand memory paging. The OS files the ram you have and pages as little as possible. Chrome saying it has ‘32gb’ in memory is not the same same as chrome needing 32gb to run fast.
strongIifts@reddit
I have had Chrome force restart on me so many times when using an 8GB RAM macbook air plus finder and vscode open, and I don’t have more than 15 tabs open at a time
Sea-Us-RTO@reddit
sure it works - but your laptop woll sound like a jet engine from the fans due to all the swapping to/from disk with 8gb
UnworthySyntax@reddit
I work for a cloud company, I do most of my development on a remote instance. The laptop itself doesn't matter much when I have access to large VMs
TheSilentCheese@reddit
16GB was minimum for a dev machine 10 years ago imo. I'd say 24 or 32 now. Ram is dirt cheap, don't let Apple tell you otherwise.
The_Real_Slim_Lemon@reddit
I got given a 16GB laptop - joked about it to my engineering manager, and then was immediately upgraded to 32GB. Sometimes it’s just miscommunication between all the moving parts at a company. Definitely worth asking for an upgrade if you’re on 8GB.
Revision2000@reddit
I accidentally got a MacBook Air with 8 Gb rather than the Pro with 16 Gb.
It’s hanging in there, but really struggling. Had to give almost all memory to the Quarkus native compilation process, just so it wouldn’t run out of memory. Took forever to complete though.
So yeah, definitely get more memory.
cballowe@reddit
Are they providing other machines or just "this should be all you need?"
Most of my dev career, my laptop was primarily for reading email, writing docs, and joining meetings when not in the office. I didn't particularly care how powerful it was. I had a large desktop and later large cloud workstation instances that I could connect to (ssh, remote desktop protocols of various sorts, etc) to do any work that needed resources. The last few years the laptop was a Chromebook - with the development mostly happening on a cloud workstation.
In fact, the company discouraged copying source code to the laptops. It wasn't entirely stopped, but the provided environment didn't require it for anything.
look@reddit
Definitely ditch Docker Desktop.
https://orbstack.dev
https://docs.orbstack.dev/compare/docker-desktop
fuka123@reddit
‘’’
hdiutil create -size 32g -type SPARSE -fs APFS -volname DevDisk ~/Desktop/devdisk.dmg hdiutil attach ~/Desktop/devdisk.dmg.sparseimage ‘’’
Getting a machine with more ram (mbp vs air) can be night and day for traveling. A 15” air weighs nothing vs 16” mbp weighs a ton.
My suspicion is that you should be able to run everything you need by using an apfs sparse disk…. This will degrade the ssd some negligible amount. However, you did not cause this problem, some frugal numbnut did.
Yes, everything will be slower. It may force you to write more unit tests vs integration tests to avoid overhead.
lardsack@reddit
i would ask them to let me upgrade the ram myself lmao, surely there's an upgrade available
shadow_x99@reddit
If they cheap out on hardware, how much do you think they will cheap out on your yearly raise. To me it's a sign get to get out of that job.
Proper_Bottle_6958@reddit
I used to work on a MacBook Air M1 with 8GB RAM. I used Alacritty instead of iTerm, Neovim instead of IntelliJ, and Colima instead of Docker Desktop. If possible, I preferred Safari over Chrome, unless I needed the dev tools. This usually kept my RAM usage around 4GB or less.
It's doable, but I’d still recommend getting 16GB RAM if you have the chance.
No-Amoeba-6542@reddit
Always ask about hardware in interviews. I learned about this the hard way as well.
TheTrueXenose@reddit
Well what tools do you use, I use neovim and that saves you a lot of ram and docker shouldn't eat more memory the vs code?
Possibly-Functional@reddit
Minimum amounts for my workloads are 48GB on Windows and 24GB on Linux, though even more is better. The discrepancy between Linux and Windows is partly due to Windows overhead and partly because I have to run something like a Linux VM or WSL2 on Windows. 8GB would be a joke where I wouldn't be laughing.
That said, it's not entirely unusable for a Linux thin client development machine. Where you use remote development tools to do the actual workload on a proper server with proper hardware. Not talking about remote screen sharing but dedicated remote development tools.
Of course, I will say that it's workload dependent as well. You don't need a ton of RAM for all types of development work. But for the type you are talking about then yeah, that's unreasonable for local development. Hardware, and RAM especially, is dirt cheap compared to developer time so it's just bad spending not to get developers proper gear.
quasirun@reddit
My dumpster fire employer stuck in 1995 just bought me a core ultra 7 16 core, 32GB, with a RTX2050. Id think they could snag you at least 16GB with your expected workload.
touristtam@reddit
Asking for tips:
Agreeable_Hall458@reddit
As a full stack dev, I have 32 GB in my company laptop. 4 years ago I was still on 16 and I was absolutely begging for an upgrade. I was legit ready to buy my own to avoid working with that 16 GB POS anymore.
poolpog@reddit
16GB is bare fucking minimum these days.
I had a 16GB laptop ten years ago.
This is bananas. Someone doesn't know how to provision different specs for technology workers vs spreadsheet workers. Frankly, you need more than 8 gigs for even Excel these days.
ZorbaTHut@reddit
I had one job where I was the primary driver of two out of the three company-wide upgrade cycles when I was there. I would absolutely respectfully ask for me, possibly with the phrase "c'mon, you know how much I'm getting paid, you do not want me sitting around waiting for a slow laptop, a few extra RAM sticks will pay for themselves within a week".
agile_crossover@reddit (OP)
haha that's basically the plan - thanks
Kraft-cheese-enjoyer@reddit
We do the new MacBook airs with the highest available memory. 24GB.
auburnradish@reddit
Check if they use cloud instances for development. If the local machine is just for ssh client and email it can work. Are other devs working with 8GB too? This sounds like IT just gave you a random old laptop.
W17K0@reddit
16 bare minimum for code, 32 so you can have no worries around not having enough ram or things running. When I ran a Mac and ran VMS / docker 16 was painful
fletku_mato@reddit
8gb feels too little for Docker on Mac because it is. Maybe, if it is just a couple of containers, you can get by, but it wont be fun.
I wouldn't accept less than 64gb anymore, but I have more than hundred containers to deal with. That said, a Thinkpad with Ryzen and 64gb ram likely costs less than a Mac with 16gb.
enygmaeve@reddit
I did full stack on 8mb at a startup. I set up everything…IDE, Docker, etc. got it all running and used it to show my manager why I couldn’t use a fucking 8mb laptop.
Goldman7911@reddit
Where you from? Some consultancy companies here in Brazil still offers i5 pre 10gen + 8gb ram. It is miserable
831_@reddit
I work on a mac with 16. It gets tight one in a while but is usually fine. There are two things that usually eat my ram:
In my experience, Docker isn't too bad with ram by itself, but depending what you run on it, it may take more or require some tweaking (again, with Erlang, the VM will reserve some space. It can be tiny but you need to tell the compiler. I'm sure other languages have similar config flag where appropriate). IIRC Docker Desktop and Orbstack have configurable memory limits.
On a mac, Docker sometimes silently takes massive amounts of disk space and requires cleaning up once in a while.
One thing to know about macs and memory is that once it starts swapping, it never stops, even if you kill all memory-hungry processes. You'll need to reboot.
TacoTacoBheno@reddit
Most devs on my team have 16 and with Outlook and teams open... Plus all the corporate spyware, they are at 80 percent before opening another program
Told manager getting everyone 32 would dramatically increase productivity. But nothing happens
PM_ME_UR_PIKACHU@reddit
Since when does a backend include react lol
ILikeBubblyWater@reddit
I would just not work with 8gb, when my mac boots up it already has more than 8gb of apps open.
I have 32 and I hit that limit every once in a while. 16 was already unusable with webstorm and co
tecedu@reddit
Straight up no, I got my work to upgrade mine to 96gigs, its not a macbook though. But if you are not travelling much, I wouldn't prefer one either.
And again even ifs a mac then 400 extra is a no brainer. Fight for it. 1 hour of your time lost every week will cost them a lot more.
ashultz@reddit
They probably won't pay for this software either but on a mac use Orbstack instead of Docker, it's much faster. Still needs more than 8G though.
tikhonjelvis@reddit
Rationally, they should absolutely give you an upgrade. Even a startup can afford a few hundred $ more.
Then again, I've done some pretty involved work with far less memory. Emacs + Nix go a long way. (Nix eats lots of disk space, but has no runtime overhead compared to Docker. Of course, it is very much not a drop-in replacement for containers!)
Another option is to use a remote machine for all the heavy lifting. I've found this to be a pain in practice—it can be nice, but it breaks lots of local tools and tends to make feedback cycles noticeably slower—but I've also never worked anywhere that had a good internal workflow for this. (SSHing into an edge node on the analytics cluster isn't it!)
son_ov_kwani@reddit
At my previous job I was given an Asus Zenbook UX301 laptop with 8Gb, 256gb and was running windows 10. The projects I did was mostly in Laravel, Vue and MySQL and there was one multi-tenant Laravel app I was developing. It was quite big but it ran fine. The pc had an issue with the fan so on some random days it’d make a loud aeroplane engine like sound which forced me to put on headphones to protect my hearing. The company was clearly not really doing well financially though the employer never said.
So if it’s a MacBook with M1 chip then 8GB can do. Make sure it has enough storage which you can increase the swap space. Run not more than 2 docker container at a time and keep the chrome tabs to 3. Use lightweight editors like sublime, emacs or vi. All I can tell you is you just have to be resourceful and creative.
malln1nja@reddit
I do complain about a lot of my job, but at least I was supplied with a laptop with 64Gb RAM and a remote (well, it sits in one of our offices) Linux box with 128Gb.
Weekly_Potato8103@reddit
You mentioned Mac. If it's ARM, 8Gb I think you should be fine except (maybe) if you have several docker containers running at the same time.
You can use podman instead of docker desktop to get some more performance, but just try first. It's quite impressive how efficient the M-series chips are.
HoratioWobble@reddit
32GB is my minimum, it's not that you'll always need it - but when you do, your computer will grind to a halt swapping to disk.
I'd rather have the headroom.
Careful_Ad_9077@reddit
Ask them for the remote desktop credentials.
I also develop in 8gb ram, but the laptop is only a physical interface to the actual dev machine/server.
defmacro-jam@reddit
Docker is a hawg - 32 minimum.
sebzilla@reddit
I really don't understand this logic.
As you said the cost of giving you 32GB of RAM vs 8GB of RAM is a few hours of pay for a developer.
And the time and frustration you risk wasting dealing with that little memory while trying to work will cost the company way more than that over time.
Just the fact that you're already trying to figure out how to hobble or downsize your developer tooling and experience is a bad sign.
Why wouldn't they want you working at your best? I would absolutely send a note to your manager with this concern, and see what they say.
Generally speaking this would be a huge red flag for me when starting a new job, if only because it tells me that the leadership of the development organization as a whole is a bit clueless if they're ok with this kind of terrible developer experience.
ButWhatIfPotato@reddit
Don't even bother. Just flat out tell them the equipment provided is not suitable for the job. You cannot break this down any further, if they cannot understand this simple sentence then they are just pretending to be idiots which is the worst kind of idiot.
DeterminedQuokka@reddit
Okay well I guess two things. Things are a lot better and more efficient these days you definitely can develop on 8 ram. I’m pretty sure my primary machine is 8 and it’s fine. If they had a ridiculous infra they would have given you 16.
On the other hand it’s totally fine to ask if 16 is available. It may or may not be. I know my company bought a bunch of Macs in advance of the tariffs so that’s what people get (although I speced them so they are 16).
No one is going to freak over the ask they might just say no.