Would this cracked brake pad put me out of service?
Posted by Allmotr@reddit | Truckers | View on Reddit | 155 comments
Hello. Texas driver here, would this be an issue with dot? Mechanic says its fine, but hearing conflicting things.
deadpat03@reddit
I say run it. But not my license. If it was mine I'd repair it. Don't want to lose my license. But I'm fine with losing yours.
CashWideCock@reddit
Somebody should publish a book that tells all the rules, regulations and out of service criteria.
Allmotr@reddit (OP)
Which book is that? The handbook doesnt say anything.
madewade710@reddit
You're joking right? Section II Part I subsection 5 (c) states that any crack exceeding 1 1/2" in length is OOS. It's literally in the first section of the OOS criteria for brakes...
SweetandsourMcnugget@reddit
Who reads those bro cmon we’re just truck drivers not like it’s our job to make sure our vehicle is safe to operate 😂
Under084414@reddit
It shouldn't be though if youre not an owner operator. Who's paying company drivers to do a mechanics job?
kiingjamir@reddit
I hope you’re not serious. No company is making drivers change brake pads.
unftp-0@reddit
That is hilarious imagine being a company driver doing your own maintenance
OutlandishnessBasic6@reddit
Well now i feel like a sucker for changing my windshield wiper blade.
vet_laz@reddit
Oh no, don't take reddit truckers right to be self-righteous away.
Tovarich_Zaitsev@reddit
The amount of people I have had to explain to that yes, you're the cunt who has to make sure the truck is safe and your the cunt who's paying the fine is anger inducing.
Red_Febtober@reddit
Pfft... I bet that guy still does pre-trips!
FunnyHighway9575@reddit
A pre what??
j_martell@reddit
Silly guy thinks I can read….
LMAO
SufficientWhile5450@reddit
The stuff that can still get the lot lizards pregnant I’m pretty sure
Always keep your load wrapped as they say
Alternative_Edge_775@reddit
More like it should be more user-friendly and readable. Trying to find something in there can be a challenge.
Raleth@reddit
Yeah they want us to know all these things or be able to easily cite them but then they format and word it like something only a lawyer should understand.
Alternative_Edge_775@reddit
Word.
Allmotr@reddit (OP)
Exactly, i tried finding it on the texas cmv handbook and i couldn’t find anything, not even the 1 1/2 crack he says. It probably is there but its hard to find and sort through with everything else in there.
yay_tac0@reddit
chatgpt is great for shit like this, don’t shoot the messenger just thought i’d share
mstomm@reddit
Problem is that time and time again ChatGPT and other similar AI have shown that they're not trustworthy and will make stuff up (Hallucinations). They're not as advanced as people think they are, and may deliver false information that directly contradicts the source of the information they're citing.
Numerous Lawyers have tried using ChatGPT to help their cases, but ChatGPT will make things up and provide incorrect or completely fabricated sources. Those Lawyers then get absolutely fucked in Court.
So ask yourself this: If you get pulled over by a DOT Cop looking to fuck you, will saying "ChatGPT said it was okay" be a valid response?
SchityCityGangBang@reddit
Tools are as useful as the person using them….
mstomm@reddit
Right now we're at a point where the AI companies are telling everyone how it can make their lives easier, without correctly explaining how. It's like giving a nice high powered Impact to a 16 year old Tech at Wal-Mart and telling them it will make jobs go faster.
The job does go faster, but 10 miles down the road you've got 13 broken studs and no oil, because EVERYTHING was tightened with 20 ugga-duggas.
SchityCityGangBang@reddit
I’m old enough to remember when search engines came into existence and we saw allot of random info posted on the internet. This is no different really. It’s incredibly useful as a resource. But still need to verify and ask for links and references.
In other words it’s useful if you understand how to use it.
mr_potatoface@reddit
The one good thing about this is when it provides the source of the information. So you read what it says first. If it is useful to you, then you follow the link to the source that it pulled the info from. If it pulled it from an actual Code book then you are good. If it pulled it from some random person on a forum 20 years ago, you should probably keep looking.
Clockwisedock@reddit
AI sucks a lot when you look up shit you actually know and see the answers it gives.
Just call DOT and ask them and they can almost always point you to the article like the other guy did.
I wouldn’t trust my license to a shitty AI. Maybe in the future it will be what people think it is, but right now? It ain’t it.
mcblockserilla@reddit
Using ai can be useful, but it needs a way to grab external data to add to context to be more accurate. If gbt did a search then it's going to be far more accurate than if it didn't in most cases. Deep search provides even better results. And it gets loaded into current context.
itchypalp_88@reddit
It’s in the federal book
RealSharpNinja@reddit
The texas handbook is specific to Texas laws, which supplement Federal, not supercede them
Western-Willow-9496@reddit
It probably doesn’t meet the 1 1/2 length criteria but it exceeds the 1/16 width criteria. AI leaves out a ton of information.
RebelTvshka@reddit
Brother.... There's literally only a few pages concerning truck drivers. Everything else isn't for you.
happydaddyintx77@reddit
Does that book have pictures? Otherwise I can't understand what it's tryin to say tuh me.
Xbtweeker@reddit
My man, I wish I knew regulations like you do. Quoting it like its scripture 💪🏼
ValuableShoulder5059@reddit
It's not exceeding 1.5". And 1 brake out of spec/malfunction on a 5-9 axle setup is allowed. 2 fails on a 10 axle setup is okay.
That being said while you are okay to run today, it's time to do at least that brake
Allmotr@reddit (OP)
And even so, this crack is not 1 1/2” in length, so that would mean this would be perfectly fine despite everyone in here telling me it’s not. So its pretty vague and leaves room for second guessing.
No_Ocelot4019@reddit
If its less than 1 1/2 inch then youre good but. You ever been around an officer who the last guy he dealt with just really pissed them off and now hell hath no furry like the pissed off dot officer? They can be dicks and say ya well thats not acceptable and while theyre wrong youre going to argue and dig a hole for yourself so. Get it changed its as simple as saying my trucks not moving an inch unless its to the shop as I the driver feel thats close enough to out of acceptable range that by the end of my trip it will be an oos violation and neither of us want me to be sitting at a weigh station or on the side of the highway for upto 24 hours so let's just take chance out and fix it. Dont be a dick but be stern its not the mechanic who has to worry about your license your career and 9/10 dispatchers do not give a F* about it either
Nice-position-6969@reddit
Well, you are getting conflicting answers here on Reddit. Now what do you think Johnny Law is gonna say/do? Yeah, he'll put you OOS. Make the mechanic do what he's paid to do and you continue doing what you're paid to do
madewade710@reddit
Ok then well its pretty hard to argue with section (a) under part 5 that states any broken brake shoe is out of service. It could be very well articulated that the shoe in this picture is indeed broken. As an inspector myself, I would put this out of service all day everyday
FatAshtonKutcher@reddit
How do you remember all this lol
NectarineAny4897@reddit
The same way I used to be able to recite rules from two worldwide billiards/pool rules. Lots of repetitive study and practice. I was a pro referee many years ago.
csimonson@reddit
He probably has the stuff memorized since he likely uses this one a lot as an inspector.
Allmotr@reddit (OP)
Agreed, i let the boss know i wont be driving it till its fixed. Im sure he will make the mechanic fix it.
MssMoodi@reddit
Here's a thought.... go to DOT, and have an inspection.
Allmotr@reddit (OP)
Is this the Texas CMV handbook? I still cant find where you are referencing. Even searched the document for exactly what you wrote, 1 1/2, brakes etc and it doesn’t show this. Maybe you’re talking about another book?
CakewalkNOLA@reddit
You don't have the green book?
Otherwise-Print-6210@reddit
In my Google search this came up
https://www.intrucking.org/uploads/3/7/6/7/37679031/out_of_service_criteria.pdf
madewade710@reddit
Try looking in the North American standard out-of-service criteria book. That's where I found this information.
PrivatePilot9@reddit
Between this and an air leak thread from yesterday I’m growing increasingly concerned about how much of a joke many “driver training” places must be now.
Allmotr@reddit (OP)
I never went to “driver training”. I got my cdl on my own before it was mandated. And i got it 7 years ago. I cant remember all the regulations. When was the last time you read these books? I drive the truck and use common sense not read the boom every night before bed. i did know this was bad, regardless what my mechanic was telling me. Thats why i made this post and made the title what it was, everyone has been extremely helpful minus the few very negative sad and depressed truckers out there.
UhOhAllWillyNilly@reddit
Book? Look at Mister Fancypants here who can read a book. Whatever you say, Professor.
OrganizationNo6167@reddit
It’s green and fat book, you’ll see them at truck stops. Btw this is an OS violation
whodat209@reddit
CVSA does have a out of service criteria, handbook I carry one in the door pocket of my truck kind of expensive, but a great conversation starter during an inspection🤘🏻
JosefEtheridge@reddit
Hahahaha
PanicRevRay@reddit
Mechanic should fix that honestly stupid if they dont
West_Imagination3237@reddit
Naw, run that ish in the hills.
DrillTheThirdHole@reddit
that right there is the definition of an OOS violation, textbook as it gets. which flavor of captain crunch did you get your license from? i'm genuinely concerned that you needed to come to reddit for confirmation, doubly so that your mechanic said its fine???
Smoke-Nic-Suck-Dick@reddit
As an inspector, yeah that’ll get you put out of service.
ReindeerBeautiful678@reddit
Out of service 101%
xccoach4ever@reddit
The same mechanic that doesn't want to change it? 😂
Allmotr@reddit (OP)
Yep lol
Placed-ByThe-Gideons@reddit
Care to put that in writing my good mechanic fellow?
A_CA_TruckDriver@reddit
Hell brake pads ain’t even bad. It’s wheel seals that really suck haha.
Western-Willow-9496@reddit
Those are shoes.
Placed-ByThe-Gideons@reddit
Where do you find the sandals then smart guy.
Wolfe-tg42@reddit
Why, under the mechanic’s feet of course!
A_CA_TruckDriver@reddit
Actually they’re shut the fuck ups
revelation6viii@reddit
Even if he did it's still on the driver.
Dull_Conflict7200@reddit
Put that baby out of service and it will require a mechanic to sign off on it to make it legal to drive again.
B-Run35@reddit
Yes
Individual_fire1328@reddit
Definitely
spyder7723@reddit
Jesus freaking christ. I can't imagine being so ignorant that I came to reddit to ask a question that is clearly spelled out in the regulations.
Konnie-@reddit
Welcome to modern trucking where anyone with a pulse will do,i don't blame OP but truth is the megas run the show now and while they scream "safety" that load comes first and foremost and "we can send you to the shop afterwards" are always the famous last words
Allmotr@reddit (OP)
Just freaking christ. I cant imagine being so retarded and crying on someone else’s post for attention. Just say you want attention bro, your comment was meaningless.
dingdingdredgen@reddit
Out of service or out of life. Your choice.
TheElitist921@reddit
One billion percent, yes. It's literally in the book.
QueballD@reddit
Only if the dot sees it
Personal_Skin_7546@reddit
Regulations blah blah blah none of that means much......it's all up to the officer doing your inspection
spyder7723@reddit
The regulations CLEARLY state brake shoes can have no cracks.
Personal_Skin_7546@reddit
Yes it does but it's still up to the police officer
Lonely_Law_6068@reddit
You shouldn’t have to ask. Anything over a hairline crack is not safe. They are not hard to change,get that fixed.
ClerkInteresting4048@reddit
Slap it and say " that's not going anywhere"... Then fix your brakes that is unsafe for your personal safety and others 😯
Technical-Wasabi9118@reddit
Ask him to sign on a dvir taking all legal and financial responsibility of the truck.
confusedbystupidity@reddit
Sure would...
Hypnowolfproductions@reddit
That's an orange definately. And it's likely to shatter if heated enough. On a downhill it'll shatter if ised.
Horror_Solution1945@reddit
Your mechanic needs to be put out of service.
Spare_Quarter7727@reddit
Yeah bro. I’d get my ass handed to me if I let a truck go like that
TactualTransAm@reddit
For real tho, truck drum brakes are ez. Don't know why they wouldn't want to swap them unless the boss said ship it and their hands are tied.
Green_Student498@reddit
I asked Trooper Richard Head and he said absolutely.
keymasterofgozer66@reddit
DOT here, Yes
jakobair@reddit
Diesel mechanic here. I also have a class A. If I wouldn't drive it on the road myself then I wouldn't expect anyone else to. I definitely wouldn't drive this on the road.
CookiezR4Milk@reddit
Would you trust a broken part?
Little_Dikk@reddit
Nah you’re good bro.
Ok_Screen_9618@reddit
If you Really,Really look close,I know it's hard to see,THE SHIT IS IN PIECES!!!
Chocolateapologycake@reddit
Only if the DOT sees it
unftp-0@reddit
What if the DOT officer is blind?
Chocolateapologycake@reddit
Then there is no problem!
EastSideFlo@reddit
You need a new mechanic 👨🔧
Allmotr@reddit (OP)
Company mechanic 🤣
unftp-0@reddit
Is it just one mechanic or is there others lol
Allmotr@reddit (OP)
Just 1 lol.
WitchCackleHehe@reddit
Your mechanic is fucking idiot. Take that to another shop
Allmotr@reddit (OP)
Its the company mechanic lol.
UhOhAllWillyNilly@reddit
Dannnnng. Time for a new company, OP.
Humble_Length5150@reddit
Not just out service... WAY OUT OF SERVICE!
Wadester58@reddit
Yes
OkEvening87@reddit
“Cracked, bent or broken…”
Substantial-Wolf5263@reddit
If you gotta ask then I hope you drive on this and get caught lol
DipsJax@reddit
Brake make truck to stop, broke brake no stop truck. See problem. Must fix.
Reddit_Is_a_jokee@reddit
Ask him whose liable if the pad fails and you drill someone? Even if it's good to go now how much longer could it last?
Substantial_Steak704@reddit
Yes
Economy-Bid-7005@reddit
Yes.
A DOT inspector at a goddamn station would rip into that Crack.
You can litterly hear the inspectors talk through the inspection and one of the things they do is
"Now im going to check to make sure the Minimum Tread depth is 4/32nds. Im going to check the tire sidewall and Tread to make sure they are both worn evenly. I am going to check to see if there is anything between the tires rubbing against them. I will check the Rims to make sure there is no shiny streaks or rust streaks that would indicate looseness. Im now going to make sure that all the lug nuts are properly mounted and secured there not cracked Bent or Broken there is no Distortion around the Bolt Holes. The valve stem is properly mounted and secure its not cracked Bent or Broken and it has a metal cap. I will now check the PSI. Now I will proceed to check the brake area. The brake chamber is properly mounted and secure its not cracked Bent or Broken. There are no dents or leaks. There are no missing clamps. The break lines and hoses are properly mounted and secure. They are not cracked Bent or Broken. There break drum is properly mounted and secured its not cracked Bent or Broken. There is no oil or grease to indicate a leak. The break drums are not worn to evenly"
And guess what you have a crack clear as day right there asking if you can seriously drive on that when that is litterly one of the things they look for lol.
YES that will most certainly put you out of inspection LOL.
FEARxXxRECON@reddit
Honestly, i wouldn't and couldn't live with myself as a mechanic knowing the brakes are cracked, and I tell the customer, yep your good to go. And then they wreck. Trust your gut and have it replaced. Inconvenience yes, but you won't have to worry about it later or have something bad happenening to you God forbid or DOT sees it.
kscountryboy85@reddit
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/570.59#:~:text=Brake%20linings%20and%20pads%20shall,visible%20on%20the%20friction%20surface.
You are interstate, you go by the federal guidelines. States have their own standards for intra state but the fed is the lowest common standard for interstate, states can be higher(more picky) but not lower.
From what I can see no it does not lool to be OOS. Looks like its just that corner cracking off.
hotdog11inch@reddit
How the hell do you not know the answer to that
thejp74@reddit
Yes, that will shut you down.
Outlandah_@reddit
Yes.
According to FMCSA/DOT regulations, brake linings should not have cracks that extend to rivet holes, except for minor cracks that don't impair attachment, which is outlined by the below estimation. Specifically, cracks or voids exceeding 1/16 inch in width, measured at the edge of the lining, are cause for rejection. Additionally, any portion of a brake shoe lining/segment missing, exposing a fastening device, or cracks exceeding 1.5 inches in length are also considered violations.
PS: The brake lining thickness must not be less than 1/32 inch over the fastener head, or 1/16 inch over the brake shoe for bonded linings. 1. Drum brakes: linings should not be less than 1/4 inch thick at the shoe center for a shoe with two pads, or 3/16 of an inch for a continuous strip. 2. Disc brakes: linings should not be less than 1/8th of an inch thick.
Allmotr@reddit (OP)
Thank you for pulling the exact guidelines for me. Going to show them to my boss since the mechanic who doesn’t want to fix it, thinks its fine. Is there a specific book you guys are pulling these out from so i can reference in the future?
Outlandah_@reddit
I use the JJ Keller book I carry with me at all times, but I pulled parts of the above comment for reference from online material. JJ Keller is considered one of the authorities on DOT, OSHA, etc compliance and safety.
You should check any website which functionally enables access to the regulations.
You should check mainly DOT section 393, for example 393.47.D.1 is Steering Axle Brakes, which lists part of what I mentioned, and xxx.xx.D.2 lists the rest.
thecervicpoundr@reddit
The CVSA out of service criteria says “crack that exceeds 1 1/2 inch in length”. That’s in 49 CFR part 393.47(a)
blackfarms@reddit
That's more than a crack, it has delaminated a good way around the shoe.
thecervicpoundr@reddit
The Out of service criteria doesn’t speak about “delamination” but I believe this is the same “portion of lining segment missing which that a fastening device (rivet or bolt) is exposed when viewing the lining from the edge” (393.47(a))
Allmotr@reddit (OP)
Thank you for pulling me the exact guidelines. Showed this to my boss. So this would in fact get me a violation right.
Gr00veChild@reddit
If you don't already have one of those handy green books (safety regulations book) get one. If you do have one I highly recommend familiarizing yourself with it. Unfortunately in my very short career I've already learned no one else will look out for you like you will.
Allmotr@reddit (OP)
Will do! I dont have one of those books but will get one asap.
Gr00veChild@reddit
They aren't horribly expensive, but your company should be able to provide you with one also if you're swinging through any time soon.
thecervicpoundr@reddit
It is a violation of part 393.47(a).
Suge_White_619@reddit
Man, I would hate to be a DOT officer pullin YOU in for inspection!!! 😅😅😅 You're a wizard!! The Rob Shapiro of regulations 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
orbak@reddit
Which would make it count towards the 20% OOS criteria, it’s not a standalone OOS. Margin will depend on how many brakes this vehicle has.
thecervicpoundr@reddit
You are correct
combst1994@reddit
I would not pass that on a DOT inspection
Prior-Ad-7329@reddit
That is 100% a DOT violation, and if it’s on more than just the one wheel end or 20% or more of the total amount of brakes then it is OOS.
Allmotr@reddit (OP)
Thanks!
Prior-Ad-7329@reddit
You’re welcome.
NoMasterpiece2063@reddit
Cracked enough that its causing delamination of the pad. I wouldn't run it.
pixelpioneerhere@reddit
No cracks, breaks, or man made welds.... wait.
thprk@reddit
Ain't that a shoe?
yourlmagination@reddit
That was my thought, as well. It is a shoe, not a pad, but....
nightmurder01@reddit
Yes definitely, not only is it in the handbook it is part of the pretrip.
srsattel@reddit
%100
ATWAR68@reddit
SEND IT !
ADrunkChef@reddit
Well, like everyone else has stated so far, yes, but I would like to point out, you're in Texas; there's maybe two actual weigh stations open in the whole state at any given time. If you're heading north from Laredo on 35, the only place you'd have to really worry about is the NB La Salle rest area. DPS camps in that place to get easy tickets out of MX carriers.
Allmotr@reddit (OP)
Honestly i work in the oilfield and rarely have to move this thing, but i still like to be on top of things and hate when mechanics tell me “its fine” when it would infact get me in trouble.
Outlaw11091@reddit
You're asking two questions here: First, will it put you OOS and that answer varies based on a number of factors.
But the second: "Will it be an issue with DOT?"
Yes. They can (and likely will) still give you a violation for this. "Mounted and secured, not cracked, damaged or broken."
And that crack looks deep.
10xbek@reddit
FROM ChatGPT
This cracked brake shoe could absolutely put you out of service during a DOT inspection. Here's why:
According to FMCSA (Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration) guidelines:
A crack in the friction material that extends to the edge or separates the lining is considered an out-of-service (OOS) violation.
If the lining is broken, missing, or separated in any way that could impact braking performance, the vehicle may be declared unsafe to operate.
Looking at the photo:
The crack is clearly visible and severe, running deep through the lining.
It appears to be separating at the bottom edge, and that’s definitely a safety concern.
DOT inspectors typically do not take chances with brakes. Even if your mechanic says it's “fine,” the DOT could still write you up or shut you down, especially during a Level 1 inspection.
Recommendation: Replace that brake shoe before hitting the road. It’s not worth risking your CDL, safety, or downtime over a part that costs a fraction of what a violation could cost you.
Gr00veChild@reddit
We also have brake safety week in the not terribly distant future, so I personally am preparing my equipment accordingly.
Allmotr@reddit (OP)
Thanks that was actually helpful.
Spare_Quarter7727@reddit
Yes
Spiritual-Pen-1976@reddit
Yes
orbak@reddit
If it’s over 1.5 inches, this would be a violation that would count towards the 20% defective brake rule. If the number of your defective brakes exceeds 20% of all brakes, then the vehicle is placed OOS.
up3r@reddit
Yes it will put that brake OOS. But depends on the ratio of brakes to non-working if you get put OOS. They have a threshold formula.
illdoitlaterokay@reddit
They might not go all the way to oos but you could definitely get a violation for it. Depends on how well you satisfied the officers wife i guess, let him know.
HowlingWolven@reddit
That crack isn’t fine.
z247x@reddit
I got put out a service in Oregon for one that looked like that. Guy had to come out and fix it before I could leave.
J_cam202@reddit
I would think it’s fine since the pad ain’t going nowhere but if it starts to come out of place or something I would think it would be an issue.
Leather-Solution-328@reddit
I have only 5 years experience driving semis but I have to say yes it will put you out of service. I’ve seen people put oos for much less