Am I requested the jumpseat/a ride incorrectly?
Posted by Logical-Tangelo-9546@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 63 comments
Was trying to get a ride home last night after complete crap shoot day in Chicago with the weather and delays. My intended flight was completely full so I list for the jump along with someone else from my regional but I was more senior so I had priority. This was on a mainline carrier.
Anyway, somehow we both ended up getting seats in the back and upon getting on I ask the FAs if I can step in the front for a minute to check in for the captain. I ask “hey guys how’s it going.” No response from either the captain or FO. I ask the same thing again in case they didn’t hear me and FO turns around giving me a weird look for some reason, captain doesn’t turn around. I just say “I was listed for the jump but they gave me a seat in the back. Is it okay if I catch a ride with you guys back home?” The captain doesn’t even turn around or anything and mutters something I didn’t even understand. I assumed that as a yes? And thanked them on the way out. It was just a complete awkward atmosphere from that point on. I’m fairly new so I just want to make sure what I’m doing is good etiquette and not gonna give me a bad rep.
Elegant-Process-3063@reddit
Apparently posting flight deck jumpseat procedures in public forums is cool now? Nice.
bd_whitt@reddit
I mean if ALPA can post a publicly accessible document on how to request, act, dress, and operate in the jumpseat, I think a new guy asking a question is fine. Nothing he said was confidential and you can’t just walk up and get a CASS sheet which starts the whole process. It’s fine.
LigmaUpDog_@reddit
Some guys will want to see all your docs and throughly check you out.
Some just want to chit chat a little bit.
Some will not care at all if you have a seat in the back and don’t want to hear from you.
Some people would be super offended if you got a seat in the back but didn’t check in.
No way to know what they want until you do what you did lol. I find that aspect of jumpseating to be weird
GummoRabbit@reddit
What you're looking for is standardization. If everyone followed their respective airline policies correctly that would alleviate the issue to a large degree.
TheVoidIsDark@reddit
We have this in Europe (at least the airlines I worked with)
Atav757@reddit
This is too accurate haha. This is why I now buy a ZED if I know the JS isn’t required to avoid these stupid variable interactions
ndem763@reddit
Isn't penny pinching a requirement for being an airline pilot? I'm way too cheap to buy a zed fare every time I have to jumpseat somewhere
Atav757@reddit
If I were commuting to work you’re 100% right I wouldn’t do it, but I end up flying OALs only on int’l trips any more. For the semi-monthly domestic friend visit trips I’ll buy the ZED
phiviator@reddit
Can you tell me what a ZED is? (And OAL). Please and thank you!
nobody65535@reddit
OAL is Other Airline (not the one you work for)
ZED is a form of non-revving, Zonal Employee Discount, super discounted fares for employees.
phiviator@reddit
Thank you!
videopro10@reddit
Flying international I'll do it because I don't want to chance my vacation on having to ask for a ride. Also you can't drink.
spacecadet2399@reddit
The whole lack of standardization is stupid but I commute on a very busy route for pilots and on any given flight I take, there might be 10-15 pilots sitting in the back. If we all checked in, they'd never get anything done up front.
For me it really depends mostly on whether they actually give me the CASS check-in form. If they don't, I'm basically just another passenger. I've already got a boarding pass and seat assignment like anybody else. I don't have any form that the captain needs to keep with him. If there's an emergency and they need help up there, sure I'll volunteer and show my documents at that point. But otherwise, generally I think most pilots on the route I commute on don't know or care how many other pilots are on board. They know it's probably some number greater than 5 and less than 50. (I have seriously been on flights with about 40 pilots and under 10 regular passengers - and yes, the captain made a ton of jokes about it in his pre-flight PA.)
If they do give me a CASS form, as some airlines do even when you get a seat in the cabin, then I always check in because you're really supposed to give that form to the captain. (It even says "captain's copy" on it.) But if they're treating me like a regular passenger, I'm probably going to act like one.
Occasionally there can be a weird in-between kind of situation and then it can be a little awkward. I used to not really know how to handle it when I got the CASS form and a regular boarding pass, but now I just go up and show my ID and say "Hi I'm ____ from ____, here's my CASS form, but they got me a seat in the back". 100% of the time, the captain just says "Ok! Welcome aboard!" and that's it.
CaptainsPrerogative@reddit
I’m glad to hear you want to know the correct jumpseat etiquette. Let’s start with how not to do it. Don’t poke your head in and say “hey guys how’s it going” or “they gave me a seat in the back, is it okay if I catch a ride.” That’s not it.
If you showed your credentials and got jumpseat authorization from the gate agent, that’s Step One. Getting authorization from the Captain is the second and final and most important step.
Try to meet the pilots in the boarding area, if you see them there. If not, as soon as you board, tell the flight attendant you are a pilot jumpseater and would like to go to the flight deck to speak to the captain.
Direct yourself to the captain. Introduce yourself with your name and the name of the airline you fly for, and say you are REQUESTING a jumpseat ride. Ask if they would like to see your credentials. After that, you can add that the gate agent told you the flight has empty seats and has given you seat 22A (or whatever). After the flight, thank the crew as you deplane.
This request to the captain is required every time you jumpseat, regardless of the fact that the gate agent gave you a seat in the cabin.
Why is it a jumpseat “request”? What does it matter? What’s the difference between riding in seat 22A as a nonrev pass traveler and riding in the same cabin seat as a jumpseater?
Reciprocal jumpseat privileges are a courtesy and a privilege, not a right. These privileges have been fiercely fought for, bargained for, and paid for by your pilot union and the other airline’s pilot union. Screw it up and you can lose those privileges for yourself, or you can make your whole pilot group lose jumpseat privileges with that other airline pilot group. Don’t be “that guy”!
Jumpseaters are Additional Crew Members for FAA, safety, legal, Customs, Immigration, and weight and balance purposes. As an ACM you are authorized to be on the flight deck. You are prohibited from consuming alcohol, even if seated in the cabin. You are expected to assist the crew in an emergency, as needed. Read some accident reports — jumpseaters absolutely have been called on to help the crew. You tell the pilots and flight attendants your status and your seat number in advance so they know where to find you in that scenario. Also, riding as a jumpseater is absolutely 100% free.
Traveling as a nonrev pass rider is not any of those things. You are a passenger. Might be a pilot on medical leave or some other kind of leave, and are not authorized to be on the flight deck. You may consume alcohol. You will pass through Customs and Immigration as a passenger. And as a nonrev pass traveler you are paying “something” for that seat. Possibly paying fees and surcharges, but even if it is nominally free, you are still taxed on the value. If you don’t believe me, look at the imputed income calculated by your airline on your W-2 form next January. Your airline tells the IRS the value of all the rides you got as a nonrev travel pass rider, and you are taxed on that amount as part of your income tax.
These are differences that get blurred when the gate agent hands a jumpseater a boarding pass for seat 22A. Many newer airline pilots are not aware that the jumpseat protocol should still be followed, or what the protocol even is. But now you know.
TL;DR: Yeah, don’t do that. Follow your pilot union guidance on jumpseat protocols and etiquette.
Logical-Tangelo-9546@reddit (OP)
Thank you for that, i appreciate it. Just a question. are you saying everyone on this thread that said what I did was fine is wrong?
cincocerodos@reddit
Don't listen to someone who says not to greet people. I don't even know what "don't say how's it going" means.
CaptainsPrerogative@reddit
What I’ve observed is that many jumpseater riders don’t understand the legality of it, and some are discourteous about it, which is even more surprising when they are not riding on their own metal. You do NOT want to get a Pro Standards call that originated from a complaint to your union Jumpseat Committee.
I speak from the experience of having commuted for some 15 years on airlines other than my own, in addition to having welcomed many jumpseaters.
KITTYONFYRE@reddit
found the captain
TCS420@reddit
Gotta read the room sometimes. Are they in the middle of a checklist, a brief, trying to get caught up from delays, etc etc. It’s important to check in but they do have priorities too. I think you did ok 👍🏻
Logical-Tangelo-9546@reddit (OP)
I always have made sure of that. It looked like none of that was happening they were actually laughing at something right as a stepped in.
Mobile_Career_8925@reddit
Sometimes pilots are just weirdos. Who knows lol
JediCheese@reddit
I tend to show up at the worlds most awkward time and end up standing in the entryway for a few minutes. Eventually there's usually a good break in the conversation where I can dip in and ask for a ride. Or sometimes they notice me and say hello.
Daa_pilot_diver@reddit
Same. I kind of make it a point to clunk into the door or something walking up to make noise they can hear.
PullDoNotRotate@reddit
If you're tall you can announce your entry by hitting your head on something (I usually do)
Icy_Huckleberry_8049@reddit
usually if you're in the back, no one cares
VietnameseHooker@reddit
As someone who’s not an airline pilot, what’s the benefit of jumpseating versus just sitting in the back? Only thing I can think of is the view being nicer/cooler, but I’m guessing there’s more to it?
BusterScruggs_SC@reddit
"Jumpseating" is just a universal term for traveling without a paid ticket on a company or partner airline plane, whether that's in the back of the plane in a regular seat or in the actual "jump seat" up front. Generally you will always sit in the back unless there are no seats available, if there are no seats in the back then you will get the "jump seat" however either way it's all considered jump seating regardless of where you sit. A lot of people just refer to it as non-rev. The flight crew doesn't want you up in the front, because now there's someone watching them (jump seaters have been known to report crews to the FAA for non-standard operations and get them in trouble, etc), and it makes things even more cramped, and you don't want to be up in the front either because it's not known for being very comfortable.
Zehro-cool@reddit
It’s actually required to check in so that the captain can check your id/docs, so you did nothing wrong. You probably just walked into something you are are better off not being a part of. When I can’t get their attention because they are lost in their thoughts contemplating their life choices, I usually knock on the side wall to break them out of it.
You did what you are supposed to. At that point I would only suggest to say thanks for the ride, and walk away slowly while smiling and waving… Smile and wave boys, smile and wave.
Wort_monger@reddit
Here’s a good guide for JUMPSEATING. ALPA or non-ALPA, doesnt matter. It’s all the same
https://www.alpa.org/~/media/ALPA/Files/eLibraries/Safety/jumpseat/jumpseat-guide.pdf
nwanrev@reddit
One time, something similar to what happened to you except the captain turned around and said “Thank you for that very important information” just dripping with sarcasm and anger. Felt bad for the FO but I was like “cool cya there then.” The FA heard it and chuckled, later she offered me dinner bc not everyone ate. Overall it was a great flight 10/10. I wouldn’t worry, some people are grumpy.
Ok-Selection4206@reddit
I had a United captain look at my ID and said, "Must be you. Who'd lie about that picture?"
nwanrev@reddit
I’m stealing this, that’s hysterical
Ok-Selection4206@reddit
Haha....I used it for years after that. I thought it was so funny. I forgot to be pissed off!
hawker1172@reddit
Sounds like you ran into the industry’s grumpiest
Ok-Selection4206@reddit
He's probably stuck flying the 737 can't get off the "light twin."
srbmfodder@reddit
I do a solid knock on the bulkhead. GAs don’t do that. It gets attention without being super annoying. Then I introduce who I am and who I fly for and show my badge and ask if they mind if I get a ride, I’ll preface it with they gave me a seat in the back.
1/20 times they might be jerks. Most people are cool about it and realize it’s all about us hooking each other up.
You def should be checking in even if you flowed back. You didn’t pay for the seat, you used the Jumpseat agreement, and it’s still captains discretion whether you ride or not (even if it’s more of a formality). You’re not on the JS because we have protocols that allow open seats to be used instead of the JS.
minfremi@reddit
This. Until this AA captain gave me a stern lesson about checking in at the front even if given a seat, I used to always just head to the back. Check the ALPA app, even if your airline isn’t part of it.
srbmfodder@reddit
I think you need to check ALPAs information - This is verbatim out of ALPAs mobile app about Jumpseat Etiquette and Courtesy:
“Remember, jumpseating is a privilege requiring professional conduct at all times. Be courteous to agents when requesting the jumpseat. Always ask the captain’s permission and offer thanks for the ride, even if occupying a cabin seat. Never let an agent rush you past the cockpit without asking the captain’s permission. FARs require the captain to know you are on board. Identify yourself as a jumpseater to the flight attendants when boarding. Some airlines require non-revenue passengers and jumpseaters to board last and conversely deplane last.”
Took me about 3 seconds to find it. Feel free to not check in, but don’t be surprised if someone boots you at some point. Ain’t hard to be courteous in this profession.
Joe_Littles@reddit
I hope you never plan on working at that mainline carrier, your chances of working there are in the toilet!
Sonny_The_Seal@reddit
You ain’t even mainline
Joe_Littles@reddit
Look I posted this as a joke after a redeye ok sorry I forgot the /S!!!
SubarcticFarmer@reddit
Just a note because this is often misunderstood, while it does apply at some airlines for their own pilots, for most carriers OAL jumpseaters are first come, first served. In other words you don't get priority for being senior to another jumpseater it's all about who listed first. I apologize if it applied in this case and you are aware already that it doesn't always but the story comes across very matter of fact regarding the seniority.
Atav757@reddit
Sounds like they listed JS for a mainline that their regional serves? In which case that’s why they mentioned seniority.
SubarcticFarmer@reddit
It does sound like that but in my regional days I had other jumpseaters tell the gate agent they had seniority over me and try to bump me off both at our affiliated mainline when neither company used seniority for jumpseat and at a different airline when neither of us worked for an affiliated carrier and they didn't use seniority.
In at least one case I'm pretty sure the pilot knew and was just trying to see if they could convince the gate agent they didn't know priority but the other I think they honestly didn't understand even though no company involved used seniority for jumpseat.
In this case I'm fairly confident it would be the latter as it was a tangantal mention but they are new enough to the industry to question how they approach jumpseating.
Atav757@reddit
This could be true as well, good point
Logical-Tangelo-9546@reddit (OP)
According to the JS priority document we have it would be based on seniority. That is good to know thoufh
SeeYa90@reddit
What airline do you work for and what was the mainline airline?
YamComprehensive7186@reddit
It’s not you, just a really weird vibe probably because of the Captain. You handled it well and did your part, say thank-you and grab your seat.
VillageIdiotsAgent@reddit
My guess is that the captain is “one of those,” the look from the FO was more of a “this guy is a dick, but I have to be in this dick’s team, so I’m not jumping in here.”
You did it right.
immaterial737-@reddit
Sometimes guys are just in a bad mood, I wouldn't worry about it.
0621Hertz@reddit
A long day never gives you an excuse to be a dickhead to others
immaterial737-@reddit
I wasn't excusing it, I was saying WHY they might not have been in the mood to have a conversation.
minfremi@reddit
Grumpy at leg 3 and 13hrs of duty? Amateur.
TCS420@reddit
Legal to start legal to finish 5 days in a row!
minfremi@reddit
Only 5? Nice joke there.
Adventurous-Ad8219@reddit
I always stand in the doorway in silence until one of them turns back to address me
away_argument58@reddit
Okay Batman
Adventurous-Ad8219@reddit
I am vengeance. I am the night. I am AdventurousAd from Hawaiian is it ok with you if I catch a ride in the back today?
Adventurous-Ad8219@reddit
Lol. I mean if they are clearly done with everything and just hanging out I'll say something but like I'm not going to interrupt a brief or a conversation
80KnotsV1Rotate@reddit
Nah you did it right, they just suck.
ItalianFlyer@reddit
You did it correctly. Always check in and ask for a ride. You probably just ran into a particularly gruff crew. Or just having a bad day. If it was a crappy day for you, it was likely crappy for them too.
Agent62@reddit
You did it correctly, always check in. They could've been busy or in the middle of something our they're both dickheads.
You didn't really provide enough info to tell which one it is. But just do what you did regardless and make sure they're not busy.
I've had people come in trying to talk to me while I'm on the phone with dispatch/MX and not even realize it's happening so it's very possible I'd come off as rude in that situation.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Was trying to get a ride home last night after complete crap shoot day in Chicago with the weather and delays. My intended flight was completely full so I list for the jump along with someone else from my regional but I was more senior so I had priority. This was on a mainline carrier.
Anyway, somehow we both ended up getting seats in the back and upon getting on I ask the FAs if I can step in the front for a minute to check in for the captain. I ask “hey guys how’s it going.” No response from either the captain or FO. I ask the same thing again in case they didn’t hear me and FO turns around giving me a weird look for some reason, captain doesn’t turn around. I just say “I was listed for the jump but they gave me a seat in the back. Is it okay if I catch a ride with you guys back home?” The captain doesn’t even turn around or anything and mutters something I didn’t even understand. I assumed that as a yes? And thanked them on the way out. It was just a complete awkward atmosphere from that point on. I’m fairly new so I just want to make sure what I’m doing is good etiquette and not gonna give me a bad rep.
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