Can I still pay a reduced price for a PCN after appealing?
Posted by SwiftStryker@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 25 comments
In short, I parked in a car park at 10:01, no clear signage for RingGo, so I lock my car and walk away googling the RingGo info on my phone.
I pay for parking via RingGo after googling the location number (session started 10:06). I come back to my vehicle and I have a PCN on my windscreen that was issued to me at 10:03.
I informally appealed referencing a grace period for reading signage and paying, it has been rejected and the rejection letter says I cannot pay the discounted price anymore as it's passed 14 days..
Firstly, is there any laws around grace periods and secondly, doesn't appealing a ticket reset the 14 day reduction?
If anyone has any info I'd be very appreciative!
geekypenguin91@reddit
How sure are you on your time of arrival and what was the contravention code?
No clear display of payment has a mandatory 5 minute wait before the software will allow the ticket to be issued (exactly for the reason to give you time to pay) so if your ticket says 1003 then you can't have parked at 1001.
Only way to skip the timer is if you're booked for something with no wait, like parking in a restricted area.
But yes, normally the clock is stopped while you appeal but I don't believe it is mandatory.
If you're confident that the ticket was issued in error then I would take it further to the parking tribunal
SwiftStryker@reddit (OP)
How can I find out the contravention code?
I'm pretty sure just anecdotally, I'll have at look at Google maps and see if it has my exact parking time.
How would the software know I had been there 5 minutes or not?
geekypenguin91@reddit
The code will be printed on the PCN. It'll say something like
Or
The number is the code. Or it will list the code separately. Each council has a slightly different format.
For the time, the CEO normally has to record the time they started observing your vehicle into their handheld. So they see your car at 0957, click a button, at 1002 it allows them to start issuing, 1003 its actually issued. Councils are free to turn this feature off, but it's considered best practice.
SwiftStryker@reddit (OP)
Right ok, I'm in the office at the moment so I'll have a look later when I get home.
Ah ok, so essentially I have 5 minutes to buy a ticket and I took 8.
Google maps doesn't really give me the time I arrive at the car park, but I was still driving at 9:54 by the looks of it.
I think the burden of proof would sit with the council to prove I had been there longer than the 5 minutes, rather than with me to prove I wasn't.
The signage has on it "reduced fees via RingGo" but there isn't a location code on the sign, so I had to spend time googling what the code was before I could pay.
geekypenguin91@reddit
Can we just double check you did actually buy a ticket for that carpark and not another one?
There should be plenty of signage within the carpark, if there isn't then that could be grounds for appeal in itself.
The council would normally prove it if you took it to a tribunal. Even if you did take 8 minutes, as long as you can show you were acting in good faith, then the charge would be waived
SwiftStryker@reddit (OP)
Yeah, I have my RingGo session that started at 10:06 in the car park in question.
There are 2 signs, one out the front and one in the car park. The one in the car park does not have any mention of RingGo, the one out the front on the street has the rates on which says "20% discount for using RingGo", it is a massive sign with a lot of info and the RingGo location code is very small and in the bottom corner. The only other place with a RingGo location number is on the actual pay machine but it's hidden around the back side of the machine.
Failing to see a RingGo location number I locked my car, walked away googling the location code for the car park and then paid for the parking.
How would one prove they were acting in good faith? Do you mean such as proving I paid for 4 hours parking via RingGo?
geekypenguin91@reddit
That's fine, as long as you're happy that a) it was a real ringo session and b) for the correct carpark. There's lots of ringo scams at the moment and lots of people use the wrong location code (eg using the on street code for the same road the off-street parking is on, which uses a different code).
Exactly as you've said, you did pay for your parking, you were just slow due to inadequate signage
SwiftStryker@reddit (OP)
Many thanks for all your time and invaluable information!
Yes I'm happy it was a real RingGo session as I've used it many times and have the PDF receipt and records. I'm also satisfied it's the correct location code as their evidence of the signage shows the same code, really interesting to hear about the scams though, I'll keep an eye out in the future.
Ok perfect, I'll take it forward formally then. It didn't feel right just giving in and paying the fine despite it (probably) being easier.
geekypenguin91@reddit
No worries, best of luck!
MacSamildanach@reddit
Quite a few years ago, I got a PCN for going through a bus gate.
The explanatory leaflet that came with it said that the process froze if you appealed, so the early payment thing would still apply. This was maybe 15 years ago, but they absolutely made that clear.
If you really want to take it further, I'd suggest getting hold of their specific terms to see what those say.
gillett6@reddit
You can’t pay a reduced fine if 14 days have passed but you must bear in mind that while your appeal was being considered the ‘clock stops’.
For example if you appeal 10 days after getting the fine and then you don’t hear anything back for a further 5 days you can still pay the reduced fine.
SwiftStryker@reddit (OP)
Ahhh this is what I was thinking!
I literally appealed the day of, but in my rejection letter it says I have waived the right to pay a reduced fine.
JoeyJoeC@reddit
The best advise I can give is to delete this post, you're going to get a lot of opinions from people and not real advice, and post it here instead: https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
You will get proper advice from them. Make sure you post in the correct forum (council vs private) as it's not mentioned which you got the PCN from.
Anxious-Molasses9456@reddit
the boomers will tell you "oh yeah just ignore the fine"
and they wont care when youre the one who gets slapped with a CCJ
arfur-sixpence@reddit
Just fuck off with you Boomer this, Boomer that shit.
SwiftStryker@reddit (OP)
Thanks. It was council
JoeyJoeC@reddit
Perfect. They will be able to help. Recently got a PCN cancelled by the council based on their advice on a technicality.
SwiftStryker@reddit (OP)
Ok. Thanks!
Outrageous_Local_638@reddit
Escalate the complaint via popla, 99.9% sure the parking company will withdraw the ticket once popla asks them for evidence. It's a game of cat and mouse. Parking companies don't even read the first appeal usually and just send a generic response in the hope people just pay off the ticket or cba to escalate
JoeyJoeC@reddit
Council not private
SnooDucks9972@reddit
Not legal advice: but I’m 99% certain this would be laughed out of court if there is evidence of a 10:01 arrival, 10:03 PCN and 10:06 session start
I think laws recently changed but no idea
Also no, you can’t pay reduced amount after appeal but I’d definitely be taking that all the way to court
PristineKoala3035@reddit
As far as they’ll take it anyway, no chance it gets to court. OP it’s most likely nobody read your informal appeal, in my experience they basically automatically reject them all. I think councils figure it’s cheaper to not hire anyone to review them, & try to scare you simultaneously. Will probably get cancelled at formal appeal, that’s how it’s always gone with me. Have a look for the councils enforcement officer handbook/pcn guide if it’s online & it should give you something to cite
SwiftStryker@reddit (OP)
Thanks for the info
louwyatt@reddit
They need to change the law so that these parking companies have to present the basic facts to a tribunal without you needing to be present to see if the claim is ridiculous.
AutoModerator@reddit
Please help keep AskUK welcoming!
When repling to submission/post please make genuine efforts to answer the question given. Please no jokes, judgements, etc.
Don't be a dick to each other. If getting heated, just block and move on.
This is a strictly no-politics subreddit!
Please help us by reporting comments that break these rules.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.