Hamas security officer says group has lost control over most of Gaza
Posted by Regulatornik@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 167 comments
Posted by Regulatornik@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 167 comments
BendicantMias@reddit
Uhh...this anonymous informant hasn't worked with Hamas for nearly 2 years now, as per the article's own description. And 'let's be realistic here'? What kind of jihadist or freedom fighter talks like this? Israel has every reason to try painting its war as won - that's the only way they can justify closing what will otherwise go on forever. They need to prove to everyone, including their own people, that, contrary to even their generals claims, you can kill an idea. How did the BBC even get in touch with this guy anyway, isn't Israel doing its best to keep the media out of Gaza? Yet apparently the BBC can reach a commander?
blanchinator@reddit
BBC is no longer a reliable source.
Sahaquiel_9@reddit
🌍🧑🚀🔫🧑🚀
GothicGolem29@reddit
The BBC posts some preety scathing articles of the state and has done some preety good articles on things
Sahaquiel_9@reddit
They also post some scathing articles on trans people
GothicGolem29@reddit
Even if they have(I haven’t seen any examples so can’t comment) that really doesn’t change my point
Sahaquiel_9@reddit
Their coverage of Palestine. Their treatment of Corbyn’s campaign
GothicGolem29@reddit
They cover both sides in the Palestine conflict and I don’t really agree on what you say about their treatment of Corbyn but regardless doesn’t change my above point
Sahaquiel_9@reddit
bbc’s coverage of israel’s war on Gaza ‘systematically biased against Palestinians’ “bbc gives Israeli deaths 33x more coverage than Palestinian ones”
Giving Israel a boar’s bristle of legitimacy is already giving them too much. Much less portraying both sides as equal, and giving vastly more sympathetic coverage to the side that just so happens to have a massive lobby in the UK too, and the uk happened to send $574m in ~~military aid~~ weapons to Israel which might explain the preferential treatment
GothicGolem29@reddit
That’s one report I saw one a while ago saying they were bias against Israelis. Again they are criticised for both indicating they are in the middle.
Wdym giving them legitimacy? The BBC doesn’t give either side more sympathetic cover I’ve seen numerous articles that pain Israel in a bad light. It’s not like weapons sales give the BBC money so no that won’t be the reason for anything
Sahaquiel_9@reddit
No matter what I say you’ll still support them, an organization that (because it’s state owned media) presents a power-friendly view of the world aligned with the state that it is funded by. If you’re ok with that power and you see it as the default then you’ll view the bbc as rational and balanced.
GothicGolem29@reddit
I don’t support them because they are state owned rather because they seem to be reliable not what you claim. The BBC has written scathing articles about the state about Israel and iirc some on Trump
Sahaquiel_9@reddit
I didn’t say you support them because it’s state owned. I’m saying that they present a power-friendly view of the world aligned with the state it’s funded by because it’s a state owned media.
GothicGolem29@reddit
Ok wlel I disagree.
They report heavilly on both not sure they report either more
Sahaquiel_9@reddit
Reporting equally on both sides of an issue like they’re both equal things does not make one balanced. In fact it gives too much glcredence to the institutions in power. /r/enlightenedcentrism
GothicGolem29@reddit
Other reports have said they are biased against israel in the number of reporting again showing they strike the Right balance when both sides criticise them. I disagree reporting both sides crimes in this case is balance
Sahaquiel_9@reddit
I don’t care talking to a gammon
Current-Wealth-756@reddit
Br*tish?
Sahaquiel_9@reddit
It’s a joke lol. The UK (minus Scotland) has consistently proven their uncoolness though. I do the same to france. Not only because of their continued colonial relationship with Africa but also because of their dominance in cuisine (am professional chef).
GothicGolem29@reddit
I disagree its still quite reliable
blanchinator@reddit
Coverage of the Middle East has been awfully biased. This is not an opinion.
GothicGolem29@reddit
It is an opinon you think its bias I don't(at least by several media outlets.)
blanchinator@reddit
I didn't say 'I think it's biased'. It is biased. The evidence has been published in rigorous reports and is not open for debate.
GothicGolem29@reddit
You saying it is biased is still what you think as it’s not a fact. Of course it’s open for debate and different reports say different things some claim they are biased against Israel others for which says to me it strikes the right balance..
blanchinator@reddit
That's the problem though, it isn't balanced. It is a fact that the view of one side is being over represented by a factor of more than 30x. That is fact.
GothicGolem29@reddit
I don’t think it’s being over represented the BBC(and other outlets) have published numerous articles talking about what Palestinians want and how they are being effected
blanchinator@reddit
It's clear what you think. But you're wrong. I'm sorry to disappoint you but the numbers don't lie.
GothicGolem29@reddit
You may think I’m wrong but I’m not. The numbers do not support your claim
ScaryShadowx@reddit
Hamas is probably deeply wounded by the Israeli response, but the actions of Israel have all but cemented the idea in the Palestinian mind that this will be the inevitable end of them even if they don't resist. Hamas will come to power again, or a side of sorts, which will continue to oppose Israel, and because Israel doesn't seem to be capable of considering Palestinians human, this will happen all over again.
BendicantMias@reddit
Yeah I don't doubt they're not doing well rn, just that this doesn't sound like a great source on just how they're doing. But ultimately Hamas doesn't even need to survive, just hatred of Israel. Which is now more widespread than ever, and deeper than ever among Muslims especially. In the long run this isn't going to play out well for them, unless they relish being constantly at war. Good for Netenyahu types at least - plenty of political opportunities, and keeps them out of jail too!
Throwaway5432154322@reddit
What kind of source on Hamas' combat status would be good enough for you to ascertain its current capabilities? I've posted ISW and CTP articles, those are apparently "biased"; I've posted RUSI pieces, those are also apparently "biased"; most "mainstream" news sources are also apparently "biased"... meanwhile, "non-mainstream" media sources that are generally anti-Zionist seem to avoid discussing Hamas' combat capabilities at all.
I mean, "hatred" isn't really enough to destroy a society of ten million people.
Seems like the long term so far, e.g. foundation -> present day, has worked out pretty well for them though? They've made peace with neighboring states that previously spent decades trying to destroy them, or were at least hostile to them, and since the beginning of the war in Gaza none of those states have showed any signs that they're gonna return to being hostile.
They obviously don't relish being constantly at war, given normalization with Egypt and Jordan and even more recent events like the Abraham Accords.
FWIW, I hope Netanyahu rots in prison for the rest of his life, starting as soon as possible.
GothicGolem29@reddit
He might not have worked with them but that doesnt mean he cant know whats happening in the org as he still might have contacts there. And media still have ways of contacting people in Gaza(tho per below he might be outside Gaza.)
taike0886@reddit
Even if Gaza militants have given up, redditors stand firm in their resolve to resist Zionist hegemony! You can't kill an idea! 💪🏾
Raouferman@reddit
the commander they talked with was resigned from hamas a week after october 7, he now lives in cairo
MilesDaMonster@reddit
It’s time for Hamas to surrender and release the hostages. The party is over.
BendicantMias@reddit
There's almost no hostages left alive, and Israel hasn't promised to end the 'party' for releasing them anyway, so they've got little reason to surrender.
meister2983@reddit
Israel has stated multiple times it would end the war if hostages are released and Hamas is destroyed.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
So Hamas has no incentive to release the hostages because releasing the hostages won’t end the war?
meister2983@reddit
The incentive is to not die. That's why you surrender
BendicantMias@reddit
Funny how you guys aren't calling for Ukraine to surrender then. Plenty of them are dying too. Apparently such logic only counts when it serves your goals, when it doesn't they should fight to the death for your 'ideals'...
meister2983@reddit
Because they have a path to victory. I don't see how Hamas does.
No, it means ceasing to exist as an entity. If everyone disarms and agrees to stop advocating for the destruction of Israel, the problem is resolved.
BendicantMias@reddit
Lol sure. They themselves don't talk about counteroffensives to take back all they've lost anymore bub. So I could just as well say "their fighting is achieving nothing other than getting themselves and their civilian population killed" right back at you. You're just eager to see Israel win, so you make excuses for them
Uh huh. So then why do you people get so triggered by them calling for the 'destruction of Israel'? That's also just Israel 'ceasing to exist as an entity'. Totally not death, completely different I tell you! 'If Israel disarms and agrees to stop advocating for the destruction of Hamas, the problem is resolved' - see, I can echo your dumb argument right back at you. TWICE!
Lol you guys are so hilariously bad at this!...
meister2983@reddit
I'm confused. Gaza is losing 50x the people Israel is. I don't see how Israel is losing here.
Correct. People don't like their country destroyed, so not getting your point.
Sure, but why should they? They have a 100x firepower advantage. The weaker actor surrenders.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
I wondered how long it would take until the mask slipped and the support for mass murder would be revealed. Not long at all.
It’s being exposed for the monster it is.
They are not going to. But they also aren’t ever going to make peace with such an advantage. Ever. So it will come down to willpower. Remember, eventually the world got sick of supporting atrocities in South Africa.
meister2983@reddit
Support or just comparison? If you look at plausible fighters since Oct 7, it's like 20x or so. Either way, Hamas is screwed.
I get the sense the actual red lines are a lot further from where you think they are. Hamas misreads this too, which is why they are in their unfortunate position.
Then they are going to simply be functionally destroyed. A military cannot sustain a 20x:1 causality rate indefinitely. They'll literally run out of fighters -- per recent reports, they are already well on their way to collapse.
The ANC was actually a more attractive organization than the National Party. Hamas is quite less attractive than Likud. Even the PA is less attractive than Likud.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
It’s obviously support. You are not saying x vs y, you are saying x vs y therefore x must do something now or y will simply kill more!! And you quite obviously support y, and by extension support y killing more.
Keep in mind no one believes the lies that Israel isn’t deliberately mass murdering civilians. It’s all over the news. Support for Israel is going down everywhere except at the highest levels of western government, where the more Israel murders innocents the more support they get.
Where do you think the red lines are? I assumed you had no red lines whatsoever.
Hamas is no longer in charge of the strip. They aren’t going to be defeated militarily however. They will recruit and grow again. It may be under a different name. While there are Palestinians left alive in the west bank or Gaza that will happen.
meister2983@reddit
I think you are confusing a declarative and normative claim. In general, in these discussions, you aren't engaging with realpolitik claims, which leads to people talking past each other.
Sure, but I don't see the relevance to this discussion.
Outright genocide. Not like some human rights group claiming genocide under some contorted definition, but Gazans actually acting like they are going to get genocided. e.g. Storming the Rafah crossing to escape certain death at Israeli hands.
I fail to see why not. Tons of insurgent groups in history have been crushed by brutal anti-insurgency campaigns. Once hope is gone, they will be unable to recruit.
Once again, you misread my claim. I didn't claim the majority support Israel. I claimed they support the Israeli more than Palestinian governments. This at best results in reduced funding, not actual aid to the Palestinians that changes the war. In other words, Hamas still loses.
Throwaway5432154322@reddit
Exactly. It continually blows my mind that these guys either don’t understand or pretend like they don’t understand the historical concept & practical purpose of “surrendering” as an armed force. I think it’s the former, could be the latter I guess, although I think they’re mostly more ignorant than malicious.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
I think it’s just that Hamas understand the abuses, torture and rape and murder that is waiting for them in Israeli custody and they don’t really want that.
Throwaway5432154322@reddit
Didn't Israel treat the late commander of Hamas' brain cancer, while he was in Israeli custody?
Aside from that, even assuming bad conditions in Israeli custody are an inevitable reality, that hasn't stopped other soldiers throughout history from surrendering despite knowing they will deal with conditions that were obviously far worse than Israeli prisons. When fighting conditions get bad enough, then soldiers surrender, even ideologically committed soldiers.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Does that really offset rapes and tortures in Israeli prisons? Is there a cure one, kill one policy?
I guess the fighting conditions aren't bad enough for Hamas to surrender yet. Even assuming that they will be taken prisoner rather than being killed. Remember, there is an Israeli tendency to kill people under white flags.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
Such a simple concept, yet so difficult for those who are pro-Hamas to understand.
BendicantMias@reddit
Apparently the concept of an organization not wanting to kill itself is too complex for those who're pro-Israel to understand.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
Even the Nazis and the Japanese Empire surrendered. Hamas is apparently even more fanatical than those groups, and you want them running the place.
BendicantMias@reddit
How convenient that you forget what it took to get them to surrender. Literally MILLIONS died. Even then they only surrendered after Hitler was dead, and Japanese emperor ordered it. Anyway, if that's your model, then have at it. Remind the world yet again of how brutal you are. And you want Israel, the one enacting such brutality, running the place lol!
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
There's nothing "brutal" about defeating your enemy. If millions of Palestinians have to die for Hamas to surrender, that's on Hamas, no one else. I'd prefer Hamas surrendered a year ago and saved everyone a lot of trouble. Can you say the same?
BendicantMias@reddit
Nope. It's on you - you're the ones killing them. But I'm glad you spelled it out like that, made your callousness even more stark and bared for all to see. The fact that you don't see the problem with that speaks volumes. No wonder you people are so unpopular globally rn.
So no, I can't say the same. Cos we are not the same kind of person...
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
I'm not killing anyone. Why isn't it on Hamas? Hamas started the war, Hamas continued the war, Hamas increases civilian deaths with their use of human shields and civilian structures, so why isn't it on Hamas? Because you said so?
Can you answer my question, since you're so moral and righteous? I'd prefer Hamas surrendered a year ago and saved everyone a lot of trouble. Can you say the same?
BepsiR6@reddit
It is. The people in the org get to keep their lives and end the war but the org has to end. It will end either way.
BendicantMias@reddit
Well if you're so confident, then end it. They've got no reason to make it easy for you, especially seeing how brutal you've been to the civilians already. You've given them zero reason to consider your govt. merciful, or even just humane. They might as well die with a gun in their hands than die kneeling to their oppressors. Or would you advised your ancestors to kneel to the Nazis?
Now go justify that confidence of yours. If it's gonna end either way, then end it. Carry out your Final Solution in front of the whole world...
meister2983@reddit
The Jews when faced with genocide actually tried to flee to other countries.
The Palestinians... Just stay there to die?
BepsiR6@reddit
Im saying their regime will end. They can either end it in a way that allows them to keep what they have now or it can end in a total and complete defeat where they lose even more. Already any chance of them getting a state has faded into dust and Israel is about to get more allies thru the Abraham Accords. This approach they've had with violence has only made them more and more irrelevant.
BendicantMias@reddit
Lol you aren't promising them to keep anything, you've explictly called for their destruction. Why are you even arguing online over this if you're so confident? Just go do it. Go on. Carry out your Final Solution.
And you were actually about to get that normalization (which is NOT an alliance) prior to their attack. That attack and your response to it torpedoed that, so in that sense the violence already did succeed. It put the Palestinian issue back on the table. And you're keeping it there with your Final Solution. You are lucky Trump won the election I'll give you that, since he doesn't give a shit about appearing diplomatic. But your precious normalization is now more tenuous than ever, more dependent on American bribes to keep it afloat than ever. You've managed to alienate not just the Muslim world, but almost the entire world, your only saving angel happening to be current world hegemon that's sacrificing its own legitimacy for your sake. Your future is tied at the hip to it now, every accord utterly dependent on it to grease your wheels. Meaning if it ever falls, you spiral down with it. And it doesn't even need to - cos your Final Solution is pissing so many people off that it's become a contentious issue even in America. So even just a shift in American politics will leave you in a bad position. So you're not even tied to America, you're tied to Trump specifically - one of the most unpopular American presidents, despised by half the population, and for whom this is his last legitimate term.
So you've got 3 years to enact your Final Solution under Trumps' largesse. And you have to be careful not to piss off the world's most mercurial leader. Make the most of it, cos you're not gonna like how this plays out long term.
Or here's an idea! Can you ask your boi Netenyahu to use his powers to convince Trump to do a full scale invasion of Iran? It's the only way you'll possibly completely destroy their nuclear program and/or change the regime to your Shah puppet, so you should want that. So can you get him to do it? Should be fun watching him speedrun his own political downfall, and getting the US stuck in yet another Middle East quagmire. 🫡
BepsiR6@reddit
Who has done that?
Saudi Arabia worked with Israel against Iran and Lebanon and Syria are in talks with Israel no longer under Iran's thumb. How is that a success?
BendicantMias@reddit
Your govt. literally has their destruction as its goals. And lol, Saudi Arabia has never been under Iran's thumb, they're literally its rival. They also hate you - the only reason there was ever any talk of normalization at all is cos your Daddy America was bribing them. And now it's having to work even harder to win them over. And they'll drop you like a hot potato whenever the bribes run out. Syria also hates you - you had an opportunity to build bridges and you stole more of their land instead. Ditto Lebanon. Just lol if you think they only hate Hezbollah when YOU were the ones bombing them. The only talks they have is due to weakness and fear, which means you're stuck having to constantly keep them weak and afraid to keep them from turning on you.
Anyway, who the hell are you trying to convince? Your sealioning is useless. I told you to live up to your arrogance and go win with your Final Solution, since you seem so sure you already have. So go do it then. I'm not indulging your feigned stupidity anymore.
rattleandhum@reddit
See there's where most people stop believing anything...
meister2983@reddit
You think the public will support soldiers getting killed "just because"?
Ala117@reddit
If by "hamas" you mean Palestinians.
GothicGolem29@reddit
I think some media said it's beleived half of the hostages left in Gaza are alive
BendicantMias@reddit
I meant relative to the total hostages they originally took. Many have already been freed in past deals, some more have died. There's likely only a minority of the people they took on Oct. 7th that are still with them and still alive.
GothicGolem29@reddit
Oh ok fair enough.
Ala117@reddit
Calling genocide (or ethnic cleansing and massacres if you prefer) a "party" now? don't know what i'd have expected from someone with you flair.
ShowBoobsPls@reddit
It's just war
Ala117@reddit
Got no boobs to show you dude, get lost.
BendicantMias@reddit
Well his name checks out, so at least he's honest...
meister2983@reddit
It sounds like there's no one left with a mandate to surrender.
BabylonianWeeb@reddit
People are cheering, but the guys who wkll replace hamas are like way worse. They are Saladin jihadists who's backed by Israel and they have strong ties with Isis.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
It's because the replacement for Hamas will be ISIS that pro-Israelis are cheering. Think about it: Now Israel can arm and support people with absolutely no morals and not even a passing interest in Palestinians, just religious zealotry. When they finally turn on Israel or Israel gets tired of them they will be much easier to paint as villains and allow Israel to mass murder even more Palestinians, probably in the West Bank...
Red_White_Penguin@reddit
I like how you use “pro Israeli” instead of “right wing”… as if being pro Israeli means I HATE ALL PALESTINIANS or being pro Palestine means I HATE ALL ISRAELIS.
No, it’s a peace camp vs war camp.
Peace camp wants a peaceful solution where rational - pragmatic and peaceful agreements will be made
While the war mongering camp wants the other side expelled or eradicated so it can have the whole land for itself.
Trying to paint it as a nation vs nation is so stupid and polarising for no reason. Conflicts existed before this, and were solved before this - even much longer and bloodier ones. But right winger extremists policies are not the same as a monological ideology shared by the entire country - be it Israeli(Netanyahus government)or Palestinian(Hamas and co.)
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
This is cute, but not really believable. I just had a couple of conversations with members of the Israeli peace camp. One basically dismissed almost all Palestinian deaths as “just war, that makes it ok” and the other just railed at me for not blindly accepting everything he or she said and questioning them.
There is no almost no Jewish opposition to the expansionism in Israel. And, as most Israelis are quick to point out, Arabs don’t count.
Red_White_Penguin@reddit
Well there is an opposition to that, so idk what you’re talking about. Also, a few people you talked to is all the evidence you need? There are plenty of Israeli groups who talk against the genocidal settlers and right wing fanatics, and as of political representatives it’s a bit complicated but there are people who do speak out against this, for example Yair Golan and his new(ish - a merge of two left wing parties) party…
Its a bit complicated since there can be some people who won’t recognise the inhumane actions in Gaza but will still prefer peace over war, and that’s how conflicts are solved - both parties who recognise that stopping the violence is more important than loving the other side, especially when politically speaking out against some of the things that are going in will hurt them politically speaking, as people are hurt by the latest chain of events, so while you might look at it and think how evil they all are, well, that’s how people are and to fix problems you can’t expect perfection over pragmatism where you play the game to win the power and fix things from there.
My point is, there are plenty of Israeli peace activists, not from the kind you talked to that might not be as peaceful as you’d want but would probably agree with peaceful solutions, but also truly peaceful people who do recognise what’s going on… politics and change is different in reality than in theory where you can philosophically debate and expect morals to be the major factor but in reality where it’s millions of people’s opinions you’re talking about, it’s harder to magically expect people who don’t really “talk” politics and truly believe they are surrounded by blood thirsty enemies that need to be wiped out, aka - they are scared constantly, to believe what they are doing is wrong and how they need to change 180 degrees their thinking. You win and get peace when you acknowledge you need to strive for solutions without a 100% agreement on every little thing, that’s just how politics work…
I agree this is a sick society and sick region but saying there can’t be peace or that’s it’s not believable is childish and fantastical as the world doesn’t work like in the movies where the evil is magically defeated and everyone is happy - deus ex machina style.
As I said, conflicts existed before this and were solved before this with lower rates of approval, don’t lose hope just because reality is shit, because the alternative to peaceful solutions are letting the true war mongerers, be it fundamentalists and religious fanatics or just racist scum, stand against a polarised opposition that keeps thinking it’s all or nothing.
There’s no point in giving up on peace, just have to look deeper and understand people don’t just think what they think because they are naturally evil, there is a reason to everything, and that goes for any side.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
It’s Israel. There is no chance of them choosing peace. Absolutely none at all. Look back at the last 55 years and let me know when the expansionists and racists wanted peace. The best hope for peace right now is a self-admitted war criminal with a projected win of an earthshaking 8 seats in the next election.
Red_White_Penguin@reddit
Almost as if peace is done between enemies and not 2 Jesus incarnations right?… as if Abu Mazen is some saint? I get your frustration but grow up - you aren’t offering anything other than more aggression it reads. You can’t expect a nation full of hate to magically become a Palestinian right activist do you? You’re thinking too theoretically and not realistically at all. You can’t solve issues with fantasy and wishful thinking my friend
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
I’m pointing out that you are completely wrong in your characterisation of Israel ever willingly choosing the path of peace. The peace camp in Israel is tiny and is frankly insignificant. You’re pinning all your hopes on Golan winning, and as I said before he’s a self-admitted and unrepentant war criminal who is only projected to win 8 seats at the next election.
You are currently watching Israel commit genocide but somehow coming up statements like “there is a reason to everything.” There is no acceptable reason for genocide. None. Ever. That’s a position that has been repeatedly stated many many times before by almost the entire international community. Your excusing genocide is part of the problem and the reason we are seeing these atrocities play out.
Right now we have western states almost universally backing slaughter in Gaza and the West Bank. They’re no longer even pretending to oppose it. Until that changes this will just repeat forever. A short term stop and release of hostages will be followed by more bombing, more starvation, and the majority of Israelis will never oppose that.
Red_White_Penguin@reddit
Listen dude. I’m not going to keep this back and forth as I see you still need to grow up out of your highly emotional debating.
Thinking reason is something that excuses an action is childish as you think bad things happen without one. Genocide happens for a reason. It doesn’t mean it’s a good reason, it’s probably always a very bad one, as people who lack nuance and critical thinking dehumanise an entire population or nation of people and get to the point of genocide, and why do they get there in the first place? There is reason for ALL of that; wether you want to acknowledge that or not, but if you don’t, and you just assume it’s because they were born evil and with hatred just because, you’ll never stop them or understand how to stop them, because you won’t understand how to make peace. Yes, killing all Israelis WILL stop the horrors the Palestinians go through, and you won’t need to understand the Israeli mind at all doing that, just a few big bombs and that’s it problem solved, but if you want to stop this hell in a PEACEFUL matter, one that acknowledges every innocent civilian you can save is valuable, you need to understand the reasoning of every party in this game.
once again - I get your frustration, but you’re giving up on understanding the complexity of the situation, and yes it might be easier than diving deep into this stuff, but that’s not how politics or diplomacy actually work. You can say genocide bad all you want but that’s not ACTION, that’s a virtue signal that doesn’t really do anything, and while it’s better than nothing, you can’t sit here and expect me to treat this like an adult conversation. It’s like saying “crime is bad” - yea no shot, what are you gonna do about it? Call all criminals evil and send them to an endless cycle of jails, or are you going to understand what causes crime and how you can minimise or eliminate it from the root? You get me?
RockstepGuy@reddit
And what side are you on, peace? or war?
If all you see is red from the start, that's all you will see always, if every zionist is already a monster to you then everything they say won't really matter, since you have already decided what you think about them in the first place.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
I hate to tell you this but I’m in the human rights camp. The one you don’t even see as existing.
Chanan-Ben-Zev@reddit
I haven't seen any evidence that they're linked to ISIS; only allegations from political actors.
It seems much more plausible to conclude that they are GCC-linked, since Abu Shabab admits to receiving "logistical and financial support from several parties" and denies being an ideological organization per se. Also, MEMO notes that his gang has received both small arms and UAE registered vehicles from Israel.
Importantly, both the KSA and UAE have recently indicated support for the removal of Hamas and establishment of an alternative Arab government in Gaza that is, to put it lightly, under their direct influence and not Iran's.
While ISIS is an ideological offshoot of the KSA's Wahabi religious establishment, ISIS and the KSA are violently antagonistic (and have been for over a decade now).
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
There were extensive reports about their links to ISIS. You just dismiss them because it suits you to.
Chanan-Ben-Zev@reddit
Link them, then.
BendicantMias@reddit
Bruh Memri? Really? Did you even check who its Board is? And you're calling out 'allegations from political actors'?...
Chanan-Ben-Zev@reddit
Memri translated an Arabic language article written by high-profile Emirati columnist Salem Al-Ketbi in Elaph. I don't speak Arabic. Do you care to find the article and dispute their translation, to argue that the UAE isn't actually indicating what they seem to be?
Redditthedog@reddit
So at worse they are literally Hamas 2.0 and at best they are at the least like HTS in Syria and more pragmatic then ideological
Pretend-Indication-9@reddit
I hope that's true, and the people can finally lick their wounds.
If not Hamas today, it will be another group tomorrow though. What Israel did in Gaza will only spawn further conflict.
BendicantMias@reddit
Hamas used to be supported by Israel. Now Abu Shabab is being supported by Israel (among other gangs). It's the same old song and dance routine, and will eventually lead to the same old outcome. Much like how the US used to support the Afghan mujahideen, and even Saddam back in the day.
Gordfang@reddit
Wasn't Hamas supported by Israel when they were a charity organisation?
-dEbAsEr@reddit
Times of Israel:
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
Yes. They used to build hospitals and schools, that's when Israel supported them.
waiv@reddit
They supported them when they were fighting on the streets with the PLO
Bloaf@reddit
The history was: very early in Hamas existence they were a religious charity, and Israel supported them. Then they became more militant and Israel stopped supporting them. Then they took over Gaza, and years after that Israel started allowing international aid to flow to certain Hamas wings under Israel’s supervision, which people have characterized as “supporting Hamas”.
frizzykid@reddit
Just like the gangs in Gaza who claim to be charity groups wanting to hand out food, yet they steal and shoot at Palestinians waiting for it.
Ala117@reddit
Watch the bibi-bots bring up "buh germany and japan" trying to dehumanize Palestinians further.
Chanan-Ben-Zev@reddit
How does comparing Hamas to the Nazis or the Japanese imperialists "dehumanize Palestinians"? Were the Nazis or Japanese imperialists nonhuman monsters?
How does pointing to the strongest modern counterexample to the argument that you can't militarily defeat an idea "dehumanize Palestinians"?
BendicantMias@reddit
99% of the time the word 'dehumanize' isn't used to mean the subject isn't literally part of the human species. Merely that they've somehow lost their claim to human rights, either due to their own heinous actions or due to simple discrimination i.e. either by them being evil, or you being evil.
As for that counterexample, firstly it's very much the exception rather than the rule. This has literally been tried already IN the middle east itself. Multiple times. And it keeps failing. Secondly it required their utter obliteration, with MILLIONS dead and their nations reduced to cinders. So even if it worked, arguably it dehumanizes the one doing it for indulging in such a atrocity.
Ironically Israel itself is kinda a counterexample to your counterexamples - after all, it was born out of an attempt to kill an idea, the Jewish religion. With extreme prejudice. And look at where that idea is now...
Yes you can kill an idea - you just need to kill almost all the people believing in it to do so. Even the Nazis weren't able to manage that, which suggests you need to be worse than them to do it...
We actually have an even older model for it, the same one the Nazis were inspired by - America's decimation of its native american peoples.
Chanan-Ben-Zev@reddit
Are you claiming that the Nazis or the Japanese were denied their human rights in the course of WW2? And further, that the same process is being repeated in Gaza?
Afghanistan's reconstruction failed for many reasons, including blatant corruption by the American NGOs and corporations that the government subcontracted the reconstruction efforts to. It's an example of what not to do just as much as the post-WW2 successes are examples of what to do.
Isn't that exactly the accusation being levied against Israel: that huge portions of the population of Gaza are being killed and that a significant majority of Gaza's infrastructure has been destroyed? Isn't that an indicator that Israel's purported war may actually succeed in removing Hamas?
You're shifting the goalpost from "Israel is dehumanizing Gazans by treating Hamas like the Allies treated the Axis in WW2" to "Israel is dehumanizing itself by doing that."
Are you claiming that the Allies dehumanized themselves by defeating Nazism and Japanese imperialism?
You misunderstand: there was no state-level Jewish sovereignty anywhere on earth for multiple millennia.
The purpose of Israel's current war against Hamas is to deprive it and it's ideological adherents of power in the long term. Not to literally kill anyone who holds sympathy towards that ideology. After all, Nazism and Japanese imperialism were not "killed" in that way: there still are neo-Nazis and Japanese palingenetic ethnonationalists. They just have no actual power in Germany or Japan and won't for the foreseeable future.
Your counterexample of Israel (i.e. the exercise of Jewish self-determination and sovereignty after multiple millennia of consistent, global, and continuing violent & systemic anti-Jewish oppression) actually supports my point. If it takes Hamas (or the Nazis, or Japanese imperialists) multiple millennia to regain political power after being violently deposed that those territories reconstructed under more liberal governments? Cool and fine, we'll address that then. I can live with that timeframe.
It's a good thing that isn't actually on the table then.
Blarg_III@reddit
80% of the strip is now just corpses and rubble, is anyone in control of most of Gaza?
Redditthedog@reddit
80% of Gaza is absolutely not corpses the population had net growth so that absolutely isn’t true
Blarg_III@reddit
The majority of the population is concentrated into a small number of camps, with the rest of gaza being a burned out hellscape.
This is absolutely false; the conservative estimates are putting total deaths at well over a hundred thousand by now.
RockstepGuy@reddit
The official death tolls is still around 60k, those conservative estimates are done by outside sources that have no access to Gaza and are just compared the number with other urban wars.
The Gaza health ministry says 59.600 people dead in total, Israel doesn't agree with it but at the same time says it's close, everything else is pretty much speculation.
Own_Thing_4364@reddit
Source?
Blarg_III@reddit
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-20415675
Own_Thing_4364@reddit
Where does it say that "80% of the strip is now just corpses and rubble" in your source?
frizzykid@reddit
The isis gangs and mercs shooting at the remaining Palestinians as they go to get food.
political-bureau@reddit
That should be "Israeli funded isis gangs".
0WatcherintheWater0@reddit
Any credible source for this claim at all?
political-bureau@reddit
American source
https://www.cnn.com/2025/06/06/middleeast/israel-arming-hamas-rivals-gaza-intl
Israeli source https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-06-11/ty-article-magazine/.premium/whats-wrong-how-israel-trained-and-armed-an-isis-linked-gazan-crime-militia/00000197-5aa3-deed-a9bf-5fef7d990000
Throwaway5432154322@reddit
“The remaining Palestinians”? Seriously? ~98% of the people that were alive in the enclave before the war are alive right now, today.
zapreon@reddit
Meh. I think it is far far more valuable as to whether Hamas would be able to restore operational control when Israeli troops leave these areas again than whether they control it now.
Israel can't really sustain this war over the very long-term, socially, economically, or diplomatically. That means the IDF will pull back at some point, be it in 3 weeks, 3 months, or 3 years.
Redditthedog@reddit
It comes down to post war occupation if the UAE or whoever does it and keeps the peace Israel or whoever else “won’t ask questions as to methodology
HockeyHocki@reddit
The comment about the salaries is pretty telling, for all the bluster in truth most of these 'zealots' are only loyal as long as the money keeps flowing. The blockade sucessfully strangled Hamas and now it's gasping its last breaths
Maardten@reddit
Whats so strange about that? Did you actually think most members of Hamas are motivated by religion?
Most people want to feel like they have some agency in their life and they also need money to survive, Hamas just happens to be one of few organizations that offer both to Palestinians.
HockeyHocki@reddit
No there is nothing strange about it at all, i've consistently said that's precisely what would happen. It was posters on here adamant you can't destroy hamas as it's an 'ideology'... as if that puts food on the table
HireEddieJordan@reddit
Someone learned nothing from the Taliban.
HockeyHocki@reddit
Yeah cause those two are comparable lol https://imgur.com/a/zNdIgxY
HireEddieJordan@reddit
I'm torn between you being wilfully obtuse or just dense.
HockeyHocki@reddit
I claimed hamas could be effecively strangled via blockade but apparently i learned nothing from the Taliban... feel free to actually back up what you write instead of throwing out pointless ad-hominems.
BendicantMias@reddit
It isn't Hamas that has to survive to begin with, just anger at Israel. Which is now more widespread than ever, and deeper than ever among Muslims. What I'VE said for a long time is that Israel today is utterly tied to the fortunes of its patron America, including the political changes even in America itself at this point. So really, it's tied to Trump. They've successfully alienated almost everyone else, and even what detentes it can cobble together only exist thanks to copious bribes from said patron. If that patron ever declines or shifts its attitude, Israels' fortunes will turn along with it. And not only is Trump floundering America rn, but most of the Trumps' critics are now very critical of Israel too. Hell they even managed to turn Tom Friedman against them! - https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/09/opinion/trump-iran-israel.html
The source of this story is questionable to begin with, as I've pointed out, but even if true, it's incredibly short-sighted to think this has any good outcomes. Israel needs to dash to destroy the Palestinians once and for all, cos this is likely the best and only chance they'll ever have. Even if it does, the region is unlikely to move on in time - they've only got 3 years. If and when global dynamics shift, they're not gonna be in a good position. Rather than ending the war, they're gonna be stuck in a perpetual state of war if ever their patron abandons them. They need its hegemony more than ever.
Or they can do something stupid, like convince Trump to invade Iran. That would expedite the process of disintegration, and I don't mean of Iran...
HockeyHocki@reddit
I'm not suggesting Israel is going to solve the conflict by pummeling Hamas into irrelevance. That's a short term objective.
Except the opposite is true, the reason Hamas invaded Israel in the first place is Israels gradual movement towards normalisation of relations across the region. Sure right now in the aftermath there is backlash, that was the Hamas plan.
But in the meantime Israel and Lebanon are now co-operating in the dismantling of Hezbollah
Israel and Syria are in talks about peace with normalisation potentially down the line
Saudi talks are due to kick off again soon
the US? Support is stronger than ever. When the democrats do take over Israel will dial it back and nothing changes. Your own link is referencing a problem with the current Israeli government, not Israel. Like the US, the Israeli administrations change as do its policies.
Really? Posters on here love to repeat this claim, so what country of any relevance have Israel actually alienated since Oct 7th?
oz_xvii@reddit
Sure, just like displacing people out of 3 quarters of the city might. But as you can imagine, there’s a fucking catch to both these approaches
Unable_Duck9588@reddit
He’s Israeli, most probably IDF.
Not worth the effort.
imunfair@reddit
I mean most of Gaza doesn't exist anymore, so it's sort of true regardless of the other comments saying they don't believe the source. Place looks like Bakhmut now, only that city was actually empty of civilians before Russia blew it to hell.
Own_Thing_4364@reddit
What does that mean?
imunfair@reddit
Exactly what it says:
Own_Thing_4364@reddit
So all of Gaza looks like Bakhmut? You got a source on that?
imunfair@reddit
Onus is on you to prove it wrong Mr Israel. We've all seen the satellite before and afters and the panoramic photos of the damage.
Also, nice bit of propaganda sneaking an "all of" into the sentence to reshape the narrative in preparation for future argumentative posts and leading questions, don't think I didn't notice. Now go bother someone else with your incredibly transparent agenda pushing.
Own_Thing_4364@reddit
No it isn't. Mr. Ayatollah. Burden of proof is on the one making the assertion. Though I guess in your country, it's the one with the gun at the back of the head of the population that make the rules, even the ones that are illogical.
imunfair@reddit
I have no idea what in the hasbara-babbling is going on here, my post was quite clear and if you pretend not to understand it or are unable to look up the satellite before-and-after comparisons or images of the disaster your people have turned Gaza into that's on you. Even after a single year it looked like Bakhmut.
Carpantiac@reddit
Hooray!
Hopefully Palestinians will be free from Hamas soon. The tragedy that these terrorists have brought on their National is unforgivable.
ijzerwater@reddit
and the Palestinians sitting in the ruins will certainly not become extremists
jakethepeg1989@reddit
Not every country that has been ruined by war resorts to extremism. It's all about the rebuild.
Japan and Germany post WW2 for example being the most famous examples.
A lot of final status negotiations for this conflict have revolved around who will do the rebuild. Saudi Arabia was making a lot of noises about demanding Hamas be completely removed and then they, alongside other gulf states. They have more than enough money.
rattleandhum@reddit
There is no Marshall Plan for Gaza, the Israelis have no interest in the prosperity of the Palestinians, they never have, from the moment they invaded the Palestinian mandate and claimed it as their own colony.
Own_Thing_4364@reddit
Perfect, since Palestinians have never had an interest in prosperity for themselves, except for those who control the aid money.
BendicantMias@reddit
Firstly those two are very much the exception rather than the rule. This has literally been tried already IN the middle east itself. Multiple times. Most recently in Afghanistan. And it keeps failing. Secondly it required their utter obliteration, with MILLIONS dead and their nations reduced to cinders. So even if it worked, the one doing it is monsyrous for indulging in such atrocity.
Ironically Israel itself is kinda a counterexample to your examples - after all, it was born out of an attempt to kill an idea, the Jewish religion. With extreme prejudice. And look at where that idea is now...
Yes you can kill an idea - you just need to kill almost all the people believing in it to do so. Even the Nazis weren't able to manage that, which suggests you need to be worse than them to do it...
We actually have an even older model for it, the same one the Nazis were inspired by - America's decimation of its native american folk.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Luckily, we can rely on Israel to continue starving and mass murdering the Palestinians in Gaza even after the slaughter ends.
meister2983@reddit
They were already extremists. Can't become what you are already!
Ala117@reddit
Thanks to no one but your favourite terrorist state.
meister2983@reddit
Clearly Palestinians have no self agency
rattleandhum@reddit
When all means of moderate resistance have been assassinated or exiled, and your oppressor literally funds your extremists, what do you think the likeliest route of resistance will be?
meister2983@reddit
What moderate resistance? The PLO was the destroy Israel group from 1964 to 1988 and Hamas quickly filled that void
fury420@reddit
Several factions within the PLO even bragged about participating in the Oct 7th attack (the PFLP and DFLP.)
Ala117@reddit
Your favourite terrorist state took that away, just look at their torture camps and the west bank.
ijzerwater@reddit
so, 1 year old baby: extremist already? is that what you are saying?
meister2983@reddit
Maybe not. Would have been by 8 or so
rattleandhum@reddit
"why are you hitting yourself? Why are you hitting yourself?"
DMBear89@reddit
Good. Hopefully the Palestinian people can move on from Hamas. Hamas have caused nothing but grief for Palestine , they have been a thorn in Palestine and if they’re saying they’ve lost control of most of Gaza then this is worth celebrating. Terrorist scumbags .
Ala117@reddit
Ftfy
ijzerwater@reddit
unless Israel gives them a reasonable living opportunity, it will all start again.
FlargenBlarg@reddit
That's at least something good, don't think it's worth all the death.
I do wonder though how the power vacuum will be handled
Fluffy-Republic8610@reddit
It depends what comes after Hamas. I don't even know if it can be called "good", because, it can always get worse for everyone. Always. Lets hope some good can come of this. I doubt it, but there can be hope.
Hamas were scumbags for specifically targeting civilians on Oct 7th, and I don't mind if they all got killed after that. But the Palestinians need an armed campaign for justice and for dignity, otherwise the colonialists will push them out of their own homeland and that would be bad. Bad not only for Palestinians. I believe it would ultimately be disastrous for Israel too because it only leaves its opponents with very narrow and very destructive options.
But I think reports of Hama's demise are probably exaggerated.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
The usual way Israel handles it - mass murder.
FlargenBlarg@reddit
No I mean within Gaza, who will take their place.
Because in the rest of Palestine there are the Palestinian authorities that handle the area, there always needs to be some form of governance for any area of land.
Whatever happens I hope the people of Gaza won't have to suffer much and some sort of peace is achieved, though I doubt that'll happen
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Most Israelis aren’t really interested in peace, just more land, so expect Israel to start moving settlers into North Gaza.
FlargenBlarg@reddit
Right wingers want more land, left wingers want peace, I'm over simplifying but there are many who want peace, the current administration is right wing and they're trying every trick to hang on
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
There are indeed many in Israel who want peace. Excluding Israeli Arabs the figure may well go past the hundreds, even thousands. Unfortunately Israel has 10 million people. So peace isn’t going to happen. The best we can hope for is slightly fewer Palestinians are mass murdered on a regular basis.
Salt_Spell2644@reddit
What incredible news
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