Got Montana Plates? States Ramp Up the Scrutiny on Tax Dodgers
Posted by UnscheduledCalendar@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 337 comments
Posted by UnscheduledCalendar@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 337 comments
fuhry@reddit
I'll preface this by saying: I live in a state with sales AND property tax on cars, and all of my vehicles are registered in-state.
But fuck sales tax on used cars. It's technically a violation of the commerce clause, and yet states have continued charging it anyway.
I despise property tax on cars too but I pay it because I know I'd just be screwing my neighbors if I didn't. I wish we would change the law to exempt the first $50000 of value from up to 2 vehicles per household, or something.
Agreeable_Rain_1764@reddit
Property tax in all forms is obnoxious. All tax should be in the form of an income or consumption tax. It shouldn’t be possible to inherit a home and then eventually lose it to the state if you can afford the property tax.
dr_pepperpenis@reddit
Seriously - charging sales tax on used items where the sales tax revenue has already been collected is insanity to me. Cars which have traded hands multiple times will at a point have generated more in continual sales tax collection than they were/are ever worth
somedude456@reddit
Especially for say a 2 million dollar cars. Yeah, dude is fucking rich, I get it, but you want to tell me he owes $120,000 to buy that car, and then will likely own in less than 2 years, less than 1,000 miles? No, fuck that, absolute BS! Montana the car and be done with it. Dude probably has a legit half down cars with in state plates. He pays his share to maintain the roads.
_larsr@reddit
Good. It’s often collectors who do this (or people who are avoiding emissions and inspection requirements). Throw the book at them.
NCSUGrad2012@reddit
I’ve got to imagine the vast majority is for tax instead of safety inspections. The people that can’t afford to get their car fixed for inspection also can’t afford to do this. Also, currently only 14 states have safety inspections and that number drops to 13 next year so it’s a minority of states. I could see it maybe sometimes for emissions though
Se7en_speed@reddit
The one legit reason for this was a classic car that was too young to be exempt from emissions in CA but was not possible to "fix" in any way to pass.
Leno's law will hopefully fix that.
That being said, that would apply to like 1% of the Montana plates in CA so fuck the rest.
bimm3r36@reddit
This happened to me. Car is a 2001 and has held its value well enough to justify maintaining in good condition, but it had an emission system issue that would’ve required an engine rebuild to pass smog in CA (~$15k+), so my mechanic recommended the Montana registration.
I ended up moving out of state due to other reasons, so the problem “fixed” itself that way, but it would’ve been my only economically reasonable choice if I had stayed.
mini4x@reddit
What 'emissions' issue would force you to rebuild the engine?
mondaymoderate@reddit
Yeah especially on a 2001. They don’t even test emissions on that year in California.
Navydevildoc@reddit
Gonna get pedantic here, but yes they still do tailpipe sniffers in some cases. Land Rovers for example, that are full time 4x4, can't go on the dyno and at STAR stations will still get the tailpipe sniffer in addition to the OBD2.
mondaymoderate@reddit
2000 and newer don’t require a dyno test. There’s no tailpipe emissions test for 2000 and newer. Land Rover included. It’s just an OBD2 hook up to check the monitors. I do this for a living.
bimm3r36@reddit
What are you talking about? I had to do a STAR certified smog test every two years.
My ‘92 didn’t have to do the full test (OBD1), but still had to be smogged for registration.
mondaymoderate@reddit
Vehicles 2000 and newer don’t require and emissions test during a smog. Only an OBD2 monitor test.
bimm3r36@reddit
Oh I see what you mean. Its still technically an emissions test, but you’re correct that they just plug in to the OBD reader and do not use the exhaust probe like they do for my other car
mondaymoderate@reddit
Not really an emissions test if they don’t check the emissions. They have no idea what’s coming out of the tailpipe on 2000 and newer vehicles because they don’t test for them.
bimm3r36@reddit
Ok buddy, thanks for your pedantry.
lostfate2005@reddit
Yes they do lol I just smog tested a 2001 Tacoma in California
mondaymoderate@reddit
lol no they don’t. They just hooked it up to the OBD2 port and checked the readiness monitors. They DO NOT check tailpipe emissions on 2000 and newer.
lostfate2005@reddit
Good edit, that’s not what was originally stated
mondaymoderate@reddit
Yes it was. I only edited because people don’t know the difference between a Smog Check and an emissions test.
mini4x@reddit
in MA all they do now, is plug in the OBD2 to see what that says, no OBD2 then as long as you aren't belching smoke out it will pass.
mondaymoderate@reddit
Same is California for 2000 and newer. These people don’t know what they are talking about downvoting me. They just take their car for a smog and don’t know what happens after that.
Equivalent_Chipmunk@reddit
Given that their sig includes an E39 M5, probably was burning oil. Mine went through like a quart per 1000 miles and it's not abnormal for them to burn more than that.
mini4x@reddit
So thats not an 'emissions' problem, that's the engine is worn out problem.
Equivalent_Chipmunk@reddit
Nah they ran like that basically from the factory and they'll run like that for 200k miles with no issues
bimm3r36@reddit
I answered above, but it’s an S62 design issue that eventually affects the emissions system, specifically the secondary air intake pump.
mini4x@reddit
I was going off what Chipmunk said as far as burning oil.
inaccurateTempedesc@reddit
Burning oil probably isn't great for emissions
bimm3r36@reddit
Carbon buildup on the secondary air intake caused a fault in the secondary air pump system that threw a check engine light, which auto-failed a smog test. Temporarily fixing the issue requires a partial engine disassembly to blast out the carbon, and if it’s bad enough, can require part replacement or machining to remove the carbon deposits.
mini4x@reddit
So, not an engine rebuild. Got it.
bimm3r36@reddit
Well idk what else you call it when you have to take apart an engine to clean it up and then put it back together. Is there a better term for that?
Deadpools_sweaty_leg@reddit
Maybe an engine overhaul? Idk this guy is being overly pedantic.
mini4x@reddit
All you got to do is pull the heads to clean the passages. :0
bimm3r36@reddit
Ok man, thanks for your expertise.
snoo-boop@reddit
Pollution rules exist so that people other than you live longer lives. When you pollute, that causes negative economic value to everyone other than you. If you want to make an economically reasonable choice, consider thinking about other people.
bimm3r36@reddit
What are you trying to accomplish here? Just shaming people? You’re like a protester at a Pride parade; raining negativity in a forum where people discuss and celebrate their hobby/lifestyle.
FWIW, my car passes smog where I live now. Not like I’m rolling coal or some shit, CA is just too strict for my car.
snoo-boop@reddit
I was attempting a conversation. Totally fine that your new state has different rules.
opkraut@reddit
That wasn't conversation, that was you being condescending and acting like the other guy is too stupid to understand what pollution is. There's no conversation to be had with someone like you who immediately jumps to being condescending and making broad assumptions.
snoo-boop@reddit
I didn't do that, and his analogy was condescending, but no problem... we can not have a conversation! Hecklers veto.
Longwaytofall@reddit
Apparently people hate me for it but I have a showroom condition 1990 F-150 that I keep titled and registered to my dad’s address in Montana. I live in SoCal and am not about to try to smog that and pay insane registration on a truck I drive <500mi per year.
Se7en_speed@reddit
IMO smog and inspection waivers for <1000 miles a year would be a good thing
PlatinumElement@reddit
My ER34 Skyline is one of these. However, I refuse to exploit a loophole like this so I’m only able to drive it when I visit my parents 1200 miles away where it’s registered and garaged. I hope Leno’s law passes in a way where I can finally bring my car home in eight years when it hits 35.
dwhite195@reddit
People probably find it fairly ridiculous that you are advocating for a situation that finds you unable to drive your car other than a few times a year more than a thousand miles away in a subreddit that advocates for the hobby of driving cars.
HeavyDutyForks@reddit
How often do you even get to drive that thing?
That sucks
PlatinumElement@reddit
Maybe 1-2 weeks out of the year.
cereal7802@reddit
They are often not trying to avoid emissions because they can't afford it. They are doing it out of laziness or disapproval of the requirement.
Yotsubato@reddit
They’re the most populous states
NCSUGrad2012@reddit
That’s not correct. The 3 biggest states population wise are; California, Texas and Florida. None of them have safety inspections.
After that you hit the 4th largest state, New York, which does have safety inspections.
In fact a lot of small population states still have safety inspections: West Virginia, Vermont, Maine, Delaware and Rhode Island.
Yotsubato@reddit
California has smog inspection and they check for modifications and such
NCSUGrad2012@reddit
That’s emissions. My original comment was about safety. California doesn’t check anything for safety
FixTheWisz@reddit
I think one of the reasons CA doesn’t check for safety is that, with the exception of people who either live within about 3 blocks of the beach or in one of the states few snowy areas, CA is basically a paradise for car preservation. There are just so few opportunities for rust to grow here, so failing brake lines and electrical systems due to corrosion aren’t really given a second thought.
skylinrcr01@reddit
Yeah they dgaf if you die but God forbid you’re kind Smokey
yamsyamsya@reddit
It can save you thousands on an expensive car
J_NonServiam@reddit
The one time I was considering this actually was two years ago when my state enacted emissions requirements that verified tune checksum, which I think is a bridge too far. The car still had cats and all required PCV/ccv/ gas vapor controls, but had a custom tune.
The custom tune was an auto fail on emissions even though actual measured exhaust output per the sniffer test was in spec.
Effectively CARB compliant states all soft-banned custom tunes as soon as they enacted the CA 2021 requirements. I don't think that's reasonable, especially for petrol heads and people that like tinkering. I get where the law was coming from but the effect was anyone with a crazy build could not legally register in a few CARB states.
SileAnimus@reddit
Yeah, at idle or without load. They definitely do not pass under load.
TealPotato@reddit
I agree with you that a custom tune being an auto-fail is ridiculous. If a custom tune is detected I think that a sniffer test should be used.
I'd also offer more leeway, say .5% more tolerance for pass/fail per year as the car ages.
I'm all for throwing the book at folks who cut the cats off a car to gain 3hp at the cost of 20x emissions.
XCGod@reddit
Some of us cut our cats out because they're too damn expensive for no personal benefit. The downstream cat on my camry was clogging up so I busted it up and left just the pipe. If it didn't have to be a stupidly expensive CARB certified one I would have considered replacing it for the environment.
SileAnimus@reddit
If your cat is clogging you have a critical issue with your engine spewing out oil. The personal benefit is that your car isn't fucking broken you dimwit.
TealPotato@reddit
I agree with you that the law should not require needlessly expensive CARB specific parts. If a car is past the 8 year federal emissions warranty, I think as long as good faith effort is made, and the tailpipe test results are close enough, it should be a legal configuration.
Id also argue that cutting off the cat is selfish. Without cats certain emissions don't just double, it can be more like 20-40x+. Asthma sucks, some of the meds can be $400/mo if one hasn't hit their insurance deductible. A lot of what cats do help reduce the emissions that impact asthma and other medical issues.
I'm also surprised that emissions equipment would fail that often in California. In Chicago the problem has typically been components rusting out because of the constant salting of the roads in the winter.
fatitalianstallion@reddit
Carb is all but dead with the BBB
Aroused_Pepperoni@reddit
You won’t hear that on Reddit though
k0unitX@reddit
Did you get in line like a good little boy and flash back to stock, then apologize to Daddy Newsom?
J_NonServiam@reddit
I actually did not, I bought another car and tuned it to high hell because for some reason cars are exempt for 8 years.
What I like to call, a problem for tomorrow me. Haha
WallyWendels@reddit
Imagine being anti-car on the cars subreddit lmao.
gumol@reddit
how is being against tax-evasion anti-car?
I want to make sure roads in my state are properly funded and maintained.
WallyWendels@reddit
Roads aren’t funded by emissions and safety inspections, nor are they funded by marginal road taxes. Nice try though.
biggsteve81@reddit
As one example, in North Carolina 24% of the DOT's budget comes from vehicle sales tax (HUT), 21% from DMV fees (drivers license and registration fees), and 47% from motor fuel taxes.
WallyWendels@reddit
The roads are paid for by bonds issued by the state. The taxes collected exist so the people administering them can steal more from the treasury directly.
gumol@reddit
How are those bonds paid off?
WallyWendels@reddit
The same way government contracts handled by local politicians are.
biggsteve81@reddit
Not in my state. We don't issues state bonds for roads.
WallyWendels@reddit
And I bet nobody in office steals anything at all.
WhiteHeteroMale@reddit
Do you think that folks who register in Montana are voluntarily paying all the state taxes they would otherwise owe?
TheRealPizza@reddit
Imagine being anti-road on the cars subreddit lmao.
WallyWendels@reddit
Roads arent paid for by taxes.
AmNoSuperSand52@reddit
What does this have to do with cars? This is about taxes
bschmidt25@reddit
A lot of rich Arizonans do it to register their Porsches and McLarens to avoid the VLT. About $500 per $30k in value annually (reduced by 18% per model year). So on a $200k you’re talking ~$3k. It’s pocket change for these guys but that doesn’t stop them.
jib661@reddit
there are people that do this for all kinds of reasons. I have a rallycross car that never goes on the street, it's 25 years old and doesn't need emissions testing anyway. but i keep montana plates on it because otherwise i'd have to register it non-op and getting alignment done at a shop would require towing it everywhere.
mini4x@reddit
Based on the info graphic Ferrari owner are the #1 culprit, not a suprise.
tacobellmysterymeat@reddit
Good. Fuck them for abusing the things we pay for.
Kermut@reddit
I'm going to submit the likely unpopular opinion that the progressive road registration taxes in my state (which I DO pay fyi) are unfairly implemented and highly discourage new vehicle sales.
An example:
2025 base Mustang GT: $718.00
2015 Nissan Altima: $62.00
So not only has the Mustang owner paid sales tax on their new car, every year they get kicked in the nuts while the Altima owner basically drives for free. And of course if you have multiple cars (decreasing your road usage) there is no reduction in registration cost to reflect the decreased usage. A shmuck like me is paying $1200 a year for the same amount of road usage as the Altima that clipped the highway worker the other day.
TL:DR- taxes should go to support the state, but taxation should be at least minimally reflective of real usage.
adrr@reddit
It’s the same as property tax. Spend more money on your purchase, pay more in taxes. There is no Montana title loop hole for homes though.
Kermut@reddit
Yea, but housing property taxes don't routinely have that level of variance because houses are almost always considered appreciating assets. So while a more expensive house has higher taxes the split is much more equitable. As such I don't think it's an accurate comparison.
stoned-autistic-dude@reddit
Because roads wear over time as everyone drives on them. People don’t drive through homes causing them to wear and it’s not incumbent on the city or state to maintain those homes, therefore lower taxes. By not paying registration which goes directly to road repairs, you shift the burden onto everyone else while benefitting from those same roads. It’s not equitable.
reductase@reddit
Nearly all road wear comes from tractor trailers and other heavy vehicles. Passenger vehicles are essentialy negligible because damage is proportional to weight to the fourth power, so a single tractor trailer does as much damage as hundreds of cars.
withsexyresults@reddit
why is damage proportional to weight to the forth power? Force scales linearly with mass so where is the 4th power coming from
reductase@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law
withsexyresults@reddit
Ah gotcha
caterham09@reddit
You already pay more in taxes when you buy the vehicle though. It's not like the person in this scenario isn't paying taxes.
RelevantJackWhite@reddit
That's exactly the same for a home.
Weak-Specific-6599@reddit
It is ridiculous they my next door neighbor is paying a third of the property tax that I am just because he got here a few years earlier. Property tax needs to be tied directly to the services it funds, not the price tag on property. I paid 450k for a sub 1000sf house built in 1958, and that is the bargain basement starter home cost in my area in 2020. Now my home is estimated to be worth over 600k and I get cold calls every week asking if I want to sell.
Raving_107@reddit
He does have a point that he is paying road tax for multiple vehicles that he can only drive one at a time. But you are right that you should pay more tax for a more expensive vehicle.
Someone who buys a 2025 mustang buys it because they have the money to buy a fun car. Someone buying a 2015 altima buys it because they need an appliance to get to work. You shouldn't be paying the same amount of sales tax for those, lol.
intern_steve@reddit
Sales tax, no, but registration absolutely yes. There's no way to justify that a more efficient new car has a greater negative externality than an old car. The new car employs people in it's design and manufacture, gets better economy, emits less carbon and less NOx, is safer for the occupants, and most importantly, doesn't wear on the roads any harder than the old car.
reductase@reddit
Sure there is. New cars are very energy intensive to make.
MPG has stagnated, so I don't think this is true even neglecting the carbon cost to manufacture. My 90s cars got 35-40 mpg easily because they were so light with small engines.
Considering new vehicles have ballooned in weight, this is strictly false.
intern_steve@reddit
We're making them regardless. Literally no one's plan for the future involves cutting manufacturing.
Newer, more efficient vehicles that also get 35+mpg emit far less toxic NOx compounds than their forebears, and they can also maintain freeway speeds going over the Cumberland gap.
And heavy trucks that weigh up to 80,000 lbs still comprise the vast majority of wear to public highways. The difference between a 1990 Escort and a 2023 Mirage is negligible in that context.
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Kermut@reddit
I mean, maybe? For awhile I was just driving my '06 Civic before I decided to splurge. Same income.
Again not really arguing that registration shouldn't be progressive, but that I think the current implementation in my state is lackluster.
somedude456@reddit
16 year old hates that, and adult me still does. Let's say my $200 a month insurance, 90% of that, IN MY MIND, is the possibility of being in an accident while driving. The other 10% is covering my house burning down withthe car in the garage, if a drunk crashed into my house and hits the car, etc. Crazy stuff. So if I buy a secondary car, I clearly can't drive 2 cars at the same time, the second car should be fractions of the first one. Nope. WTF!
biggsteve81@reddit
The taxation is done two ways. One is from registration fees based on the value of the vehicle; the other is from fuel excise taxes based on the usage of the vehicle (although EVs have a different taxing scheme).
intern_steve@reddit
And sales. When you title the car you pay sales tax.
sh1boleth@reddit
Virginia? Actually that’s pretty low, some VA counties have 5% of the cars value as annual tax
Which I don’t mind, it goes towards the schools and stuff
FlourCity@reddit
Exactly. Some single mom with a 10 year old civic is paying full price in their respective state, but some dude with a McLaren or something is skirting taxes. Fuck that.
bherman13@reddit
And fuck the ads on Reddit that are advocating for this.
cptpb9@reddit
Your problem is with Google or whoever handles Reddit’s ads, you’re probably getting those ads because the ad algorithm thinks you’ll buy what those Montana llc ads are selling
soonerfreak@reddit
The reddit ad algortim has at different times assumed I'm a queer trans woman, a queer lesbian, and now a gay man. While I am an ally I have always been a cis straight man, it's not the best.
d4ybrake@reddit
no, reddit ads are managed by reddit themselves. a site as big as reddit isnt going to give away a big chunk of their revenue to someone like google.
JoseCansecoMilkshake@reddit
I get them too and I'm not American, so they're not knocking it out of the park with their targeting
duderos@reddit
Come on over, the waters fine...
WorldClassAwesome@reddit
Too much ice in the water for me
TzarKazm@reddit
Well, now I'm not too sure what to think about the women's underwear ads I have been getting.
lukemcr@reddit
reddit ad buyers can choose which subreddits their ads appear on. I've seen the ads too, and I assume it's because I'm also subscribed to /r/cars
bherman13@reddit
Well I appreciate Google thinking I might someday be rich enough to be able to avoid taxes, but since I won't they can fuck right off.
C-C-X-V-I@reddit
Wait there's ads for Montana registrations on here?
EricThirteen@reddit
(At first I thought this was the ad.)
HalfFrozenSpeedos@reddit
and all the posters pushing it as a miracle solution to every complaint about "inspections in X state"
somedude456@reddit
Just being fair, if someone is tossing Montana plates on a McLaren, it's probably a more expensive one. Very if any people do it on base models. So if dude has a 400K McLaren, I can 100% guarantee he probably has 3-5 normal cars registered in state. So overall he is paying more for cars than a single mom.
andykuld@reddit
And? He should be paying ever more.
PluckPubes@reddit
Let's be honest.... When out of state online sales were tax exempt, we all took advantage. We didn't worry about "single moms". And don't telling me about false equivalency. I'm not saying the two are identical. But there are similarities
k0unitX@reddit
"the state is fucking single mothers living paycheck to paycheck, so the best course of action is to make sure the Lambo owner gets fucked too"
do you read what you post?
Ill-Scientist-2663@reddit
Did you read what he posted? Because it’s not what you put in quotes.
k0unitX@reddit
What part of what I quoted did not align with what was posted?
Ill-Scientist-2663@reddit
Paying your share for services that you use is not “being fucked.”
WallyWendels@reddit
What do you consider to be a “fair share?” In dollars.
willpc14@reddit
The tax that is levied in the state you live
WallyWendels@reddit
Your taxes are now 80% of your income because the government says it is. Pay up.
HalenHawk@reddit
Why do your dumb shit hypothetical tax rates matter? Why not use the real numbers? Especially American tax rates for vehicles which are laughably low compared to 90% of other countries around the world. If the guy registering his supercar in another state to avoid a few percent tax can't handle it then he should ride a bicycle.
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AmNoSuperSand52@reddit
Generally speaking, Lamborghini drivers are able to contribute more capital to society without it being a financial burden
The problem is they’re the kind of people you’d expect them to be
thiskillstheredditor@reddit
Not even generally. If you’ve got 300k for a toy, you aren’t worried about daily expenses.
litlron@reddit
Do you think that roads magically fix themselves Junior?
Drone30389@reddit
"Making rich people pay their taxes is fucking them over."
Do you think what you post?
FlourCity@reddit
Break it down in dollars for me, so I can better understand how the Lambo owner is getting fucked.
k0unitX@reddit
The whole point is that EVERYONE is getting fucked. If you are buying a used car, whether it's a Versa or a Huracan, you shouldn't have to pay sales tax. Sales tax was already paid by the original owner. Instead of fighting back against these ridiculous taxes, like our ancestors did, people defend them which is fucking wild. If I teleported most of the people in this thread back to the 18th century, they would literally fight for the British. It's disgusting.
Anyway, even if we are talking new cars, I can guarantee you that the Huracan buyer pays a metric fuck load more in taxes overall than the single mom driving an old Corolla. I know Reddit is nothing but far-left weak men who want to "eat the rich" and tax the fuck out of them, but I really hope all of the rich actually leave so they get a little dose of reality
FlourCity@reddit
Oh, you're an idiot. You could have just said so and saved us all some time.
cwatson214@reddit
You think the rich pay taxes? Lol
HNL2BOS@reddit
But, but, those rich people are smart enough to dodge taxes, something, something...
AndroidUser37@reddit
So the single mom should skirt taxes too! Everybody should try to decrease their tax burden. Those greedy fucks in government are going to piss away my money regardless, the least I can do is make them work for it.
Ok_Daikon_7726@reddit
“Government is inefficient, let me do my best to make it more so”
AndroidUser37@reddit
If somebody wastes your money, you don't reward them by giving them even more money. You give them less and tell them to figure it out. Cut their budget. That's basic logic.
Ok_Daikon_7726@reddit
It goes the other way too though. Things that do work are defunded for political reasons, then they get worse and people say they don’t work and want to defund it more.
cereal7802@reddit
worse. Is a dude with a clapped out BMW...I know someone doing this and his car is not great.
WhiteHorseTito@reddit
Can’t tell you how many stupid arguments I’ve had over this. Even with my neighbors that did this previously.
It’s a shame flex honestly. Great you bought a Porsche GT4 for $160k and couldn’t pay $14k extra on sales tax.
AmazonPuncher@reddit
Why should I? I can wire you $14,000 right now but I'm not going to do that because its unnecessary and I gain nothing. I dont know how people cant understand this. Do you include any extra money on your tax forms every year? Give the IRS a $14,000 tip?
Godzilla2y@reddit
Why should you? Because paying taxes is the law. What a concept.
AmazonPuncher@reddit
I pay all the taxes legally required of me. This isnt one of them.
andykuld@reddit
Is it the law of the state that you currently reside in?
LetsGoWithMike@reddit
You mean all those tax dollars the state robs from to pay for other things?
ceehouse@reddit
i reposted a story about this on my ig page for my car and someone had the gall to reapond to it with something along the lines of "it's just rich shaming and trying to take more from people with more".
they're just out of fucking touch w reality. their whole lives theyve been able to do whatever they want because of money, so they think that should always apply.
6786_007@reddit
Funny how the people who dodge taxes are the ones who can easily pay them without a care.
tugtugtugtug4@reddit
Mate, the whole trope about laborers getting paid in cash isn't because they like handling money. Tax dodgers come in all income brackets. Very few rich people actually dodge taxes because there is so much attention on them it will be easily caught. Instead they've lobbied the government to bake tax evasion for them right into the laws so they can pay less legally.
tugtugtugtug4@reddit
On one hand yes, but a lot of states have excise taxes these days on cars, the vast majority of which goes right to municipal general revenue, not for road upkeep or related services. We pay thousands of dollars a year in excise taxes for our cars, not a dollar of which goes to roads or policing roads. The taxes are a % of your car's book value (according to their book, not KBB or similar)
And they make sure you have no choice but to drive cars that have a relatively high value (and thus high tax bill) because they require annual inspections and emissions.
Its a racket and I have a hard time blaming anyone who decides not to play along with the nonsense.
dellcm@reddit
No. My state has draconian emissions laws. My fun car which still gets 30mph highway works better with no cats. Plus personal property tax is literal theft.
Fuck you and fuck the government.
SodaAnt@reddit
Catalytic converters aren't about MPG, they are about many other harmful emissions.
dellcm@reddit
My corvette is far more environmentally friendly than any ev that deposits spent lithium in a landfill.
I drive the car less than 2k miles per year. It’s not putting that much emissions in the air.
If you really cared and weren’t just virtue signaling you’d be against all forms of combustion engines in racing.
SodaAnt@reddit
I am a formula e fan....
But why would the EV battery end up in a landfill? Instead it's likely to either get a second use or be recycled for all the valuable lithium.
And your Corvette with 2k miles a year probably puts out way more NOx than a brand new Corvette driven 12k miles a year does.
dellcm@reddit
It’s not true. In USA the recycling tech to reuse lithium is not where it needs to be. I wish it were. I really really want a ford lightning.
But the reality is say a Tesla gets totaled in a crash, it’s get put in the tow lot and left to rot in most of America. The lithium degrades and just contributes massively to pollution.
SodaAnt@reddit
It's partly not there because there's not much incentive yet. The vast, vast majority of EVs are under 10 years old and have plenty of life left, but there are a lot of companies working on it as the tech improves and more EVs reach the end of their lives.
dellcm@reddit
I agree 100%. It breaks my heart. Also because the Japanese small block v8 (Toyota and Nissan) were some of the most reliable motors in existence.
A tundra v8 could run for 300k with basic maintenance.
I don’t know if it’s planned obsolescence or just lack of quality, but the new half tons blow through tons of parts due to forced induction and higher compression.
SodaAnt@reddit
I actually just think it's survivorship bias. Cars are lasting longer than ever and need less and less service than ever. There are exceptions (looking at my old 2014 Focus), but the vast majority of cars on the lot today will easily sail past 100k miles.
sickmemes48@reddit
Literally anyone can do it
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codynorthwest@reddit
I’m really surprised people don’t use rural Oregon more.
No sales tax and no emissions.
gl21133@reddit
Can’t register kei vehicles here.
somedude456@reddit
It's the LLC thing, I would be. Montana has no sales tax, but also lets a LLC own a car.
codynorthwest@reddit
An llc can own a vehicle in Oregon.
somedude456@reddit
Ok, I stand corrected.
codynorthwest@reddit
Oregon also doesn’t require in person inspection of any kind.
The only downside compared to Montana is Oregon requires a front plate.
_imyour_dad@reddit
Good for those who get this to work for them. Hopefully I can take advantage one day (or just move there).
NCSUGrad2012@reddit
I can’t imagine choosing to register my car in a state that had front plates. I’ll keep my NC registration lol
Insanity-Paranoid@reddit
If I had to guess 99% of people using Montana plates aren't putting on the front license plates on their Bugattis. Police usually don't pull over cars with out of state plates for not having a front license plate usually because they don't know the laws of the other state.
Hell in a decent amount of states not having a front license plate is only a secondary charge. For example if someone here in NJ doesn't have a front licence plate they could only be pulled over if they're actively committing another violation such as speeding or cutting someone off.
soonerfreak@reddit
Living in Texas I didn't put a front plate on my mustang and still haven't for my bronco. Ive been pulled over in both and the lack of front plate has never been mentioned.
hannahranga@reddit
Huh wild, you'd get a solid shafting from the cops here (Aus) for no front plate, mostly because they love a good speed camera
NCSUGrad2012@reddit
The US mostly got rid of speed cameras. They aren’t in many places here anymore
Legend13CNS@reddit
They're making a comeback recently, and tbh I'm not really sure how or why. I thought speed cameras had been legally challenged in quite a few states and the cameras lost.
hannahranga@reddit
Benefit of organising our police at a state level, we avoided the nastiness the US seemed to get it's self into with small towns fixing their budgetary issues with speeding fines
t-poke@reddit
I live in Missouri, a state with front plate requirements.
Haven’t had one in 6 years. Never gotten a ticket for it, and I’ve driven through some municipalities infamous for handing out tickets for the most minor infractions.
Original-Guarantee23@reddit
Just don’t use em? I’ve never used a front plate in my life in California, never once had an issue. Even when getting pulled over the cops don’t care.
AgonizingGasPains@reddit
I had a reflective vinyl "sticker" copy of my front plate made for the hood of my classic cars and daily driver. Cop pulled me over for a tail lamp that was out and thought it was a cool idea. It meets all the requirements in my state as long as I have the original in the car. I'm not drilling holes in the front of mine.
HalfFrozenSpeedos@reddit
I had my uk retroreflective metal pressed plates stuck on with strong adhesive tape, no need to drill and rock solid.
BIG_BROTHER_IS_BEANS@reddit
I live in MT. The cops up here don’t care if you have front plates either, though most people (myself included) have them anyway.
FisterR0b0t0@reddit
As a Montana resident, I haven't had a front plate on any of my cars in 20 years
Prize-Ad9063@reddit
About time. A billionaire real estate developer in Livingston, NJ shared our office complex. Guy has a fleet of exotics including Lambos and Rolls. Every one was registered in MT. While schlubs Luke me had to pay sales tax on their used beater cars, this prick dodged 100s of thousands in taxes.
Original-Guarantee23@reddit
It costs 50 bucks to do it yourself…
asdf12311@reddit
You need a local registered agent to receive mail on your behalf (the plates) and they don't work for free.
Original-Guarantee23@reddit
I said 50 dollars. Don’t know where you got 25. And as is typical… you didn’t bother to even read the article. https://www.49dollarmontanaregisteredagent.com it was right there. 50 bucks for someone to do it for you.
Single_Hovercraft289@reddit
This is the site I used. The LLC still costs $1000 to set up
AmazonPuncher@reddit
Then they are charging $950 in margin. An LLC does not cost $1000 to setup in montana. It just doesnt.
Single_Hovercraft289@reddit
Well, I’ve done through this exact website and it did. What was your experience?
asdf12311@reddit
$50 registered agent, $750 to register first car.
Then $125 annual state renewal, $50 annual registered agent, $70 annual report, etc...
and yeah I read the article it says "The cost depends on the services, but 1 Dollar Montana says it’s willing to handle the job for as little as $1,049."
As little as $1049 for all fees and things you need.
Independent_Syllabub@reddit
You can do it too. They don’t check your income when registering cars in Montana.
dog_in_da_park@reddit
It's often not worth it to make an LLC just to save a few hundred. A few thousand, ten thousand, yeah sure. I know many Ferrari owners and id say half have Montana plates, but also drive under 500 miles a year so who cares. They register the cars they actually drive in the state we live in so they pay fill taxes and registration for those.
jib661@reddit
it only takes 5 minutes and like $25 to register an LLC in montana online, btw.
Single_Hovercraft289@reddit
The service is $25, the business is $1000
AmazonPuncher@reddit
No. It isnt.
Single_Hovercraft289@reddit
If you don’t have an LLC in Montana, nobody is going to start one for you for $25. The shit costs money with the state
TenderfootGungi@reddit
But businesses have requirements, like annual reports, filing state and federal taxes, etc.
jib661@reddit
My understanding is that this isn't true for asset-holding LLCs that don't generate any revenue. If your LLC generates revenue, obviously you'd pay taxes on it.
MeIsMyName@reddit
I don't have a Montana LLC, but annual reports take a couple minutes a year to file, and taxes are pretty easy when you have no revenue.
4r4r4real@reddit
Yeah but some of us aren't deadbeat drains on our communities.
Qel_Hoth@reddit
The easiest way for states to handle this would be to just do what the IRS does.
Oh, you're a single member LLC? Yeah, you don't actually exist. All of your income is your owner's income.
markatto@reddit
It’s not just tax or emissions that people do this for (although the ECU checksum smog checks are exceedingly stupid and I don’t think most people realize that they don’t actually test your vehicle’s emissions…) For example, I once bought a $2000 motorcycle that the California DMV claimed the previous owner owed $3000 in fees on and I spent 2 full days at the DMV trying to get it worked out. It’s absurd that a vehicle can be totaled on DMV fees. I am totally happy to pay my taxes and keep cats on my car, but fuck the California DMV.
cereal7802@reddit
Friend gave me another reason. He has hmmwvs and the state of illinois doesn't seem to recognize that as a street vehicle. As a result he is unable to register them in Illinois although once registered, they are seemingly legal to drive. So many people register them in montana and drive them in other states.
SileAnimus@reddit
Because... it's not.
alwaysrecession@reddit
How do the cops check to see if the vehicle actually a true out of state vehicle or just registered out of state for taxes?
armchairracer@reddit
I'm assuming they pull you over and check your license, if you have a Montana license then fair enough, but if your license is for the state you're in you'll get hit with a fine and have to prove why your Montana registration is legit.
YouAreMentalM8@reddit
So theoretically they'll just pull people over for having Montana plates? There is no world in which that is sufficient cause/reason.
mondaymoderate@reddit
They already do that in California in certain areas. Out of state plates make you stick out like a sore thumb. I’ve heard of people with California plates getting harassed in Texas too.
captain_stoobie@reddit
Funny you mention that. Just wrapped up a road trip from socal to Texas. Had a lady back up next to us in a parking lot and shout “ewww California!”.
spacemannspliff@reddit
California plates get harassed everywhere except California. Especially if it's on an at least somewhat 'nice' car. It's probably the most conspicuous state plate that's common enough for people to recognize it. Cops assume you're trafficking and civilians assume you're gentrifying.
SoloPorUnBeso@reddit
LMAO. You think cops actually need probable cause to stop you? They can get you for your plate light being out (even though it wasn't), signaling too late for a turn, signaling too early for a turn, or any other number of manufactured, pretextual reasons. That's just usually reserved for people of color.
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Darkendevil@reddit
No, but they will "find" a reason
AmazonPuncher@reddit
And then what? Having a car registered out of state is not illegal
Shmokesshweed@reddit
Nah. Secondary offense.
Speeding? Here's a ticket. Oh, by the way, I noticed your license is from Washington, but this car is registered in Montana. Here's another ticket.
neanderthalensis@reddit
Don’t these states have more important things to worry about?
I don’t have MT plates, but I totally would. NY’s asinine tint laws, annual registration/inspections, and high taxes are absurd.
If I start an online business, register an LLC in Montana, and have it buy a car I drive nationwide for advertising, how is that illegal? That’s exactly how the country is supposed to work.
strongmanass@reddit
"Hello sir I clocked you going 66 mph in a 55 mph zone. Yes the speed limit changed about 200 meters back. May I see your license and registration please?...it says here you live at 1 Main Street, Scarsdale, NY but your Ferrari is registered in Montana. You'll have to explain that discrepancy to the tax revenue collectors."
AmNoSuperSand52@reddit
If it’s both an expensive/fancy/fast car and Montana plates, yeah you’ll probably get pulled over by someone who knows what’s up
jib661@reddit
no offense, but you grew up in the suburbs, right?
mini4x@reddit
Run the plate and if it's registered to a LLC straight to jail.
somedude456@reddit
The story I saw on VinWIKI a while back was in regards to Georgia cracking down. Georgia has a state income tax, so they have a division that investigates stuff. They have some law like if the car is in the state over a month, you need to registered it there. They had agents taking pics at Cars and Coffee events. They would also run those plates and prove the owner was driving it once a week via toll roads, for the last 6 months straight. Then, in their eyes, they've proven fraud, and they come get you. In the one case, like state version of the FBI raided some guy's house. I guess he had done like 40 Montana plates in the last 7 years or something, so they tossed him a bill for like a million in back taxes.
bimm3r36@reddit
I’m not a cop or a lawyer, but I suspect that having an in-state ID with a car registered out of state in your name would be enough for a cop to justify a citation and let the courts figure it out.
I know that most Montana plated cars are registered to an LLC instead of a person, but again, it’s probably suspicious enough to issue a ticket.
t-poke@reddit
My only worry is what if I’m driving a rental with MT plates outside of MT?
Rentals have plates from all over, and rentals rarely match the state I’m renting in.
If I get pulled over with MT plates in any of the other 49 states, I hope the cops can quickly figure out the car is a rental and I’m not trying to dodge taxes on a base model Camry.
k0unitX@reddit
Yeah, you're very clearly not a cop or a lawyer. That we can definitely tell.
The burden of proof is on the accuser - you don't have to defend yourself in court. "in-state ID with a car registered out of state" could be literally any rental car, 18 wheeler, and the list goes on. It's not even a fraction of the proof necessary for said ticket to hold up in court
bimm3r36@reddit
Ok thanks for the clarification. No need to be an asshole though
biggsteve81@reddit
With the rise of automated number plate readers it can be pretty simple. If the car is repeatedly driven past them in a state that isn't Montana it is likely evading taxes.
UnscheduledCalendar@reddit (OP)
I’m sure theres dozens of obvious offenders that a simple investigation exposes.
lostfate2005@reddit
Nope
k0unitX@reddit
That's the joke: they can't. Unless you open your mouth and admit the car is truly garaged in [insert state here], they have nothing on you. This is a scare tactic but the problem is they're not bullying average people who blabber to the cops, they're trying to bully more affluent people who are too smart to self-incriminate (for the mostpart).
They can knock on my door and try to talk about my MT plates if you want, but the only words coming out of my mouth are "come back with a search warrant"
SoloPorUnBeso@reddit
So you're just openly admitting to being a tax cheat?
moonRekt@reddit
I get ppl hate tax dodgers but you can’t throw twin turbos on a Huracan in my state and pass emissions even if you only drive 300 miles per year so I hate all the haters
borderwave2@reddit
Put cats on it and don't tune it to be rich as shit and it will pass just fine.
theRealtechnofuzz@reddit
any modifications in california is illegal. Any tune thats not certified by CARB is illegal. The emissions testing compares the ECU to the OEM tune. Any alterations is a fail. Alot of aftermarket companies dont put the effort to get CARB certifications because they are insanely expensive. I dont mind people registering in Montana to modify their car, because the laws surrounding alterations in this state are insane and you cant even register any Japanese/imported cars here. I do care if they do it to avoid taxes on a super/hyper car.
SodaAnt@reddit
Then don't make modifications to your car which pollutes beyond legal limits?
moonRekt@reddit
Braindead comment did you miss the part about 300 miles? Your two EVs co tribute more to pollution than my cars do that are hardly driven
6786_007@reddit
There are shops that will pass you. You just gotta know where to look. And if you have a car like that, I'm sure you can easily find out what shops will or someone in the car group will. I know people who get yearly emissions and inspections with catless downpipes, illegal tint, etc.
moonRekt@reddit
That might be in California where they allow independent tester. Colorado you only go through a handful of state inspection stations and once you get flagged for mods once they don’t allow you to retest until a state inspector tears through your car to see if you returned fully to stock. I had a CARB legal supercharger tuned on e85 full cats all that and all they did was ban me from emissions testing fortunately I can register at a friends house in a non emissions county but my experience made me a lot more sympathetic for people who need to register in Montana
HaggardSummaries@reddit
If you don't have "get around that" money, you don't have Huracan money
linoleumknife@reddit
If you can afford a Huracan with twin turbos you can afford to trailer it to a race track 😜
That probably wasn't the best example, I do agree there should be some exclusions for cars that aren't daily drivers.
PeanutPicante@reddit
Not everyone wants their modified car to be confined to the track.
jk-jk@reddit
It's not complex just don't twin turbo your car it's not that hard
CAPTAINxKUDDLEZ@reddit
Insurance has been “cracking down” in a sense for years as well. I worked at a BMW dealer and saw Montana plays a lot.
But some owners were switching because insurance could pull coverage if they were in an accident and they found out they never registered it in that state while it resides there. Paying Montana rates for Colorado driving.
somedude456@reddit
I question that. You simply tell your agent, "Hey, I live in Miami, the car is never leaving Miami despite Montana plates, so charge me normal Miami rates" and you should be fine.
CAPTAINxKUDDLEZ@reddit
It goes of where the car is registered. There’s too much work in them letting you tell them what “rates to charge”
What if you move and forget to tell them? People will likely try and sue them for over paying. Or lie and say I want to pay the cheapest states rates. It has to do with hail and other non collision claims they adjust into everyone in the states rates.
It’s just easiest for them to charge the rate of where it’s registered, and then it can only benefit them to deny coverage if they found out someone has been paying MT rates and ripping around CO.
somedude456@reddit
I grew up on a state border. Gas was always $0.10-0.15 cheaper a 10 minute drive into the next state. We always had dinner over there, when we needed gas. Does that anger the "pay your taxes" people? Honest question.
Or similar, a friend's family lives in Normaw. Iphones are a lot more expensive over there due to import taxes. They always visit with no phone and buy one here. Are they bad people?
yepitsme73@reddit
If you don’t like the laws change them. If there is a loop hole you don’t like, fix it. I would register in Montana immediately if I had a hypercar in a state that had idiotic registration fees.
Weak-Specific-6599@reddit
I am too lazy to go do the Montana thing, but good on whoever wants to jump through those hoops to save themselves from blowing money on shitty bureaucracy. I live in California, and our state government just throws our tax money away on stuff that helps nobody. When California and my local government wants to have real transparency and reform in their spending habits, I’ll be a little more critical of people who find creative ways to avoid paying them.
pr0b0ner@reddit
I feel like it's more about smog dodging than tax dodging
lhturbo@reddit
There really needs to be more relief for older collector cars that are driven less than 2k miles a year. Our state does 1975 or older but ffs 80s/90s cars are classics now. The laws need to be readjusted if they want to fix this.
kingkodus66@reddit
So many people here or so willing to let the government boot deep into their throat because they don’t like people with money. Forgetting about the oppression some of the states emissions and regular regulatory laws.
PancakeMSTR@reddit
Post history checks out.
JohnGoodman_69@reddit
So you prefer the people with money boot deep into your throat instead?
AmazonPuncher@reddit
I would love to know what you guys think it costs to do this. It isnt just rich people who can save money this way.
kingkodus66@reddit
How are people with money keeping me from using the same service as them? That’s a stupid point.
SodaAnt@reddit
Look at pictures of LA in the 70s to see where we would be without emissions laws.
kingkodus66@reddit
Cool. Still oppressive. You can’t tell me that real car people arnt outnumbered 10,000 to one on this. We need loopholes for the fun cars.
withsexyresults@reddit
There’s plenty of fun cars on sale that meet emissions. No need for loopholes for emissions to make the air shittier for everyone else
kingkodus66@reddit
Cool, yea just go buy new cars! Thats a solution!
withsexyresults@reddit
😂 I mean picked the wrong hobby if you’re on a budget
kingkodus66@reddit
Ah, you’re one of those. Got it.
withsexyresults@reddit
Yea car enthusiast who likes clean air
kingkodus66@reddit
Oxymoron.
withsexyresults@reddit
Nah just a regular moron
kingkodus66@reddit
Fair enough.
SodaAnt@reddit
I guess I must not be a "real car person" then. Plenty of ways to have fun while not polluting too much.
kingkodus66@reddit
lol no i can see what you drive definitely not.
SodaAnt@reddit
Great. What cars does one need to drive to be a "real car person" then? I've driven a lot of cars and I have found very few as fun to drive as my 430 hp, rwd, almost 50/50 weight distribution car.
kingkodus66@reddit
Don’t worry. You won’t ever understand i can tell. Have fun.
HeavyDutyForks@reddit
Another nail in the coffin for people who want to own Kei trucks outside of a handful of legal states
Another roadblock to importing vehicles that are federally legal but wouldn't pass state laws
andyb521740@reddit
Yup, I'm in California and have no legal pathway to register and insure a KEI truck here. Its absolutely ridiculous.
beall49@reddit
Being a car person in California is so frustrating.
Single_Hovercraft289@reddit
I converted a 1992 car from Japan to electric. Still couldn’t register it in California due to smog laws…so it’s registered in Montana
zen_and_artof_chaos@reddit
Also an issue for classic or custom car owners.
ExtruDR@reddit
Let's be clear: tax dodging IS free-loading.
Paying your taxes - your fair share - of what it take society to exist and run - IS patriotic.
If you have the means and you spend your wealth by hiring attorneys and bankers to shelter your wealth rather than working to make the ruses more fair, you are part of the problem.
BenderSimpsons@reddit
What also would help is if they pass the Jay Leno law in CA and probably could convert some of those Montana registrations to California
BrandonNeider@reddit
If people want this outlawed then you shouldn't be able to buy items out of state to save on sales tax either. Plenty of people hop over the NY/NYC Border to save on sales tax for electronics and other goods.
Optimus_Primeme@reddit
I’ll bite. I have an old 4Runner that I never take on the highway. My town does all its emissions on the highway on-ramp. I got so sick of it, I did the Montana LLC so I could stop having to take my truck to go get an emissions test even though I only drive it off road.
andyb521740@reddit
So this cuts both directions.
I'm in California and want a KEI truck, but there is virtually zero ways of legally registering one unless you are rich or have a hookup at the DMV. So enthusiasts sometimes have to use these out of state loopholes because of their ridiculous state laws.
neanderthalensis@reddit
Don’t these states have more important things to worry about?
I don’t have MT plates, but I totally would. NY’s asinine tint laws, annual registration/inspections, and high taxes are absurd.
If I start an online business, register an LLC in Montana, and have it buy a car I drive nationwide for advertising, how is that illegal? That’s exactly how the country is supposed to work.
ContainerDesk@reddit
Fuck that, I'm all about getting one over on the government no matter what. We get f*cked hard enough as is by the government.
You're more than welcome to register even your Rav4 to Montana to save $3-4k.. It's not just Lambo and Ferrari owners.
Shmokesshweed@reddit
Except that's not what you're doing.
What you're actually showing is that you're a massive piece of shit because you don't want to pay for the roads that you drive on. And that doesn't hurt the government - it hurts everybody living around you.
jib661@reddit
I have 3 cars I pay CA taxes on. I have 1 track car (25 years old, paid 3k for it) that I have montana plates on so that I can drive it to the tireshop without towing it. I don't feel bad about it ¯(ツ)/¯
Shmokesshweed@reddit
While I don't know how California taxes vehicles, revenue loss from a car that's 3k and doesn't see regular use is unlikely to be a big deal. But if you registered the other 3 in Montana, then you're evading thousands in taxes that can be used for the roads you drive on.
jib661@reddit
that's fair, I guess I'm just explaining that I'm not particularly moved by the tax argument. There are lots of tax laws that we should implement that would have a much more realized impact than this. In my mind, the utility that the MT loophole gives to the enthusiast market in the US is worth the lost tax revenue tradeoff. If we want to talk about ways to improve the tax policy, then I agree with you!
WallyWendels@reddit
Lmao, go ahead and pick up the tab then, since you think it’s so important. You pay literally nothing in taxes, does that make you a massive piece of shit?
Shmokesshweed@reddit
I pay zero in taxes?
How'd you know?
WallyWendels@reddit
Because you’re a reddit mod, so clearly not above the EITC line.
mini4x@reddit
Do you realize the people doing this are screwing the people that don't, they are using the same roads as you and not paying a dime into the tax base that maintains those roads, so they have to raise taxes, which screw you over.
TenderfootGungi@reddit
Here in Kansas, with over 10% sales tax (thanks Brownback) and high annual car registration fees, I see a lot of Texas plates.
thefanciestcat@reddit
Good.
They need to crack down on businesses registering work trucks out of state, too.
ringo-san@reddit
Never heard it called a Reddit string
durrtyurr@reddit
I don't have a front bracket for my Mercedes, I just keep it registered at my house in KY even though the car hasn't been there for years. It isn't even a tax dodge or anything, taxes are roughly the same between KY and OR, I just don't want to buy a license plate mount.
DJMagicHandz@reddit
Get em!
12ga_Doorbell@reddit
You can see Montana plates driving around in Mexico by expats. I don’t hate them. Anyone can do the same, but the rules will change eventually and the scramble will be on to find the next path.
davewritescode@reddit
I can ALMOST forgive people who do this on very expensive cars that are really only for show purposes and are unlikely to ever be driven anywhere.
However, I saw some dickhead with a thoroughly mediocre 15 year old 911 with Montana plates parking in front of a cvs in Boston. Fuck that guy sideways.
gumol@reddit
why is tax evasion more acceptable for very rich people?
ContainerDesk@reddit
Says who? I'm all about waiters and people who are paid in cash to underreport their income. The majority of people who are paid in cash do this anyways.
AmNoSuperSand52@reddit
The difference is that the government will get their taxes somehow
I’d rather that come from rich people than folks that work for a living
bacon205@reddit
Speak for yourself, I support all people regardless of net worth to pay as little of their hard earned money to the government as possible.
mini4x@reddit
Do you not like roads, or schools, or fire departments..?
bacon205@reddit
I dont like the wasted money that's taken from tax payers under the guise of being for those things, but in reality spent on stupid things or stolen through corruption
k0unitX@reddit
I hope everyone evades taxes (theft).
juiceyb@reddit
Obviously because OP might be able to buy the Lamborghini they think they deserve any day now.
davewritescode@reddit
It’s not about being rich or poor I’d feel the same way about a 488 being driven to work with Montana plates. If you’re using the car for transportation one night a year it should be registered in the state it lives in, period.
There’s a lot of cars that basically never leave garages and are essentially museum pieces. If I don’t see the Montana plates outside of the car being driven to the local car museum it doesn’t bother me as much.
That said both parties should pay taxes and stop being assholes
r00000000@reddit
Tbh does the law really matter in this case then? Bc if you're not driving it anywhere, I can't see how you'd reasonably be caught doing this.
k0unitX@reddit
A 15-year-old 911 is worth what, $45k? You're mad at a guy saving a whopping $2800 in sales tax on an old German car?
And this whole remote-register-MT thing didn't really exist or wasn't a known thing 15 years ago, so whoever bought that car new almost certainly paid sales tax on it anyway. The state already got paid for that car.
If this is the most significant thing for you to get pissed off about, you live an extremely privileged life
davewritescode@reddit
In MA we pay excise tax which is yearly property tax on cars based on the value. It’s a lot more than scamming the state out of 2800 bucks.
People used to do this by registering their car 50 miles north of Boston in New Hampshire but most cops and neighbors are wise to this and it’s much harder to get away with now hence why Montana has gained popularity lately.
If you’re using the roads you should pay.
mini4x@reddit
And we have an 'ipaytax' program to report tax dodgers.
https://www.mass.gov/how-to/file-a-complaint-with-the-i-pay-tax-program
k0unitX@reddit
We used to go to war over a fucking tea tax, and now we have pussies like you defending a ridiculous excise tax. This country is gone
ARAR1@reddit
Better yet tell Montana to stop being a rogue state
PhilipRiversCuomo@reddit
About fucking time. It’s so painfully obvious.
MR_Se7en@reddit
I always felt like Montana plates on exotic cars were an easy tell for who was a scam of a person.
suckmywake175@reddit
If it’s to bypass emissions on a low use collector or unique vehicle that can’t be registered any other way….i don’t like it but understand. Now if it to dodge tax, not cool.
a-jasem@reddit
Whenever I see a supercar with Montana plates I automatically think it’s not cool.
DreadForge@reddit
The comments in this are so at odds with each other its hysterical, some of you chuckle fucks want everyone to get the book thrown at them for some shit that hurts literally no one. There are a number of reasons why a person would register a car in a place where there are no taxes on vehicles or emissions. some of you morons even think that if you cant pass emissions its because your car is broken, what if your car is tuned and runs more efficiently than stock but because its been modified is now "illegal", should probably throw the book at them too right? seriously leave your stupid fucking takes in your brain unless you can think them through all the way and understand that the world does not operate in black and white like some of you total morons like to believe.
verdegrrl@reddit
Enough with the insults. Thanks
PBandC_NIG@reddit
Yo, OP. Any reason why you like to spam the same post on no fewer than 3 different subs?
AndroidUser37@reddit
Meh, I don't judge those who do it, just as I don't judge states who crack down on it. To me, my "fair share" of taxes and registration fees is the absolutely smallest number I can legally get away with. If Montana plates make sense to achieve that, then sure! If states close that loophole, then also sure! That's their right to do so.
Sylente@reddit
Registering your car in Montana if you don’t operate the vehicle primarily in Montana is not, in fact, legal. This has always been a crime, it’s just being slightly more enforced now
AndroidUser37@reddit
It's a loophole.
The party that makes it a crime is the state the person resides in (other than Montana) that does so. Montana themselves doesn't care.
Regardless, jaywalking is also a crime. Tinting your windows slightly too dark is also a crime. Yet, people don't get up in arms about those. So what? What's your point?
Averylarrychristmas@reddit
Well fella, jaywalking isn’t dodging your fair share. Tinted windows aren’t dodging your fair share.
Be a man and pay your dues.
AndroidUser37@reddit
If they want their fair share, they can come and get it.
And yes, I am a man. In fact, I'm so secure in my masculinity that I don't feel the need to bend over for Uncle Sam to prove it.
Averylarrychristmas@reddit
Got it - we agree it’s nothing like the things you claim. Please continue to dodge your fair share, you masculine giant.
xienze@reddit
This message brought to you by the same people that scream bloody murder about having to pay EV fees that are “too high” in relation to the equivalent amount of gas tax that would’ve been collected. Quite interesting how individuals have their own concept of what constitutes excessive taxation based on their own individual circumstances, isn’t it? Maybe the person registering their vintage hotrod in Montana only takes it for a joyride once a month and thinks the gas tax they pay in their home state is taxation enough? Much like the average Reddit EV owner seems to think an appropriate amount of road tax is something ludicrously low like $25.
AndroidUser37@reddit
Thank you! And it's always so funny how they jump to toxic ad hominems instead of discussing the merits of certain taxation structures.
k0unitX@reddit
They're mad because they're too afraid to violate the law and want to see everyone else get in line too. They're weak men.
UnscheduledCalendar@reddit (OP)
thats like saying the age of consent in different states is a “loophole”
Ill-Scientist-2663@reddit
It’s not a loophole, it’s just illegal. Just because enforcement before was lax doesn’t mean it wasn’t illegal.
Jaywalking and dark tint are not equivalent to people trying to avoid paying their share for public goods that they use.
k0unitX@reddit
It's not your car, it's your LLC's car.
chihawks@reddit
People also do this with off road non street legal Cars. Won a trial against a punk as kid who literally would not take supervision on a petty ticket for driving a otv downtown Chicago. He had a playbook from some online forum that specifically said at the top (not legal advice). Literally not safe for him or those around him on the roadway. Montana plates are the most common one i see with this too.
DDX1837@reddit
Unless you have a hangar at your house, registering an aircraft in Montana (or Delaware or other no tax states) won't help. The state will find out and they will hit you with back taxes, penalties and interest.
Been that way for a long time.
bobjr94@reddit
I still see facebook ads saying Register your car in Montana and save thousands.
TuneSoft7119@reddit
government gonna government, rich politicians will always find a way to steal your money
PanadaTM@reddit
I get ads on reddit for a site that leads you through registering in Montana, fuck them