BRICS finance ministers make unified proposal for IMF reforms
Posted by ObjectiveObserver420@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 31 comments
Posted by ObjectiveObserver420@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 31 comments
Namika@reddit
BRICS are more than welcome to fund their own IMF.
The only reason the IMF is controlled by the G7 is because the G7 are the ones footing the bill. Nothing is stopping the BRICS from putting up their own hundreds of billions to make their own IMF with them at the helm.
XimbalaHu3@reddit
Please read the article, the group proposed reform is to change the quotas calculations so they can invest more money into the fund, germany for one has a quota almost as big as china despite having close to a fifth of it's gdp.
Rindan@reddit
Where is Xi Jinping? Doesn't he always go to these?I heard he had a "scheduling conflict". Wonder what was so important that he missed his chance to be seen leading on the world stage.
XimbalaHu3@reddit
I've heard that he might have wanted to avoid this meeting as the latest clash between india and pakistan saw a lot of chinese weapons used, so as to avoid meeting with modi a "scheduling conflict" was arranged.
Professional-Way1216@reddit
There is news that he is delegating some powers to other people, to prepare China for the next leader.
Rindan@reddit
Ah yes, the famously always ready to retire Xi decided he needed less power right as a bunch of his loyalists in the military got purged.
The CCP does in fact appear to be in the process of selecting a new leader, but it doesn't look like Xi is a willing participant in the new "selection process".
Aenjeprekemaluci@reddit
BRICS has potential but its too divided. Global South isnt interested in the East vs West conflict. Russia looks to make it a Global South counter NATO/EU, China just wants to make more money and never actually does anything of note geopolitically. There isnt much common ground except IMF criticism which very warranted. But they are unsure about the moves to do. No common vision really.
HzPips@reddit
It was never designed to be a counterpoint to NATO. BRICS is supposed to be an alternative to the financial institutions that are dominated by the developed countries, and strengthen relations between its members.
Apprehensive_Emu9240@reddit
In the end BRICS and NATO have one thing in common and that is that certain members want to wield these organisations as their own politic
U_Effing_Donkey@reddit
True, but no one from the BRICS group has the power to impose their will like the US does in NATO, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
Paradoxjjw@reddit
BRIC, later BRICS, wasn't designed to be that either. BRICS was a group of 4, later 5 as South Africa was added later, developing economies identified as having high potential by goldman sachs. That is the foundation it is designed on
Either-Arachnid-629@reddit
The acronym might have meant that at its inception, but the current group has a different objective altogether, especially since the creation of the New Development Bank in 2015.
Paradoxjjw@reddit
The group only came together because of that report. India and China literally have armed clashes with each other
Either-Arachnid-629@reddit
Did I, at any point in this conversation, deny that that was the reason the group was created in the first place?
And again, at no point did I suggest this was a military alliance, only a group of nations building alternatives to a global economic order that benefits no one but the countries that were at the top at its inception.
lelarentaka@reddit
Well yeah, this is how it looks like when an international organization is made up of independent sovereign states that each can freely speak their opinion,
instead of being the cover for the hegemony of one country that forces its lackeys to parrot its talking points.
At some point, you people lost the plot for what true liberalism is supposed to look like, because you grow up in a world where liberalism has been weaponized as a tool of propaganda.
BendicantMias@reddit
If the Global South can indeed wrest enough voting power at the IMF away from the west, I wonder if they could also push to consider issuing its own neutral global reserve currency. Instead of all the controversy around BRICS potentially issuing its own currency, and all the poo poo-ing by the west of that as well as any other currency replacing the dollar, what if we actually broke tradition again (the US already broke tradition decades ago when it got off the gold standard by ending its convertibility into gold) by designating an actual international currency for international trade instead of the currency of whichever nation happens to be the current hegemon? It would remove the extraordinary privilege (unlimited debt!) afforded to the nation that happens to be the global reserve, and more crucially could be constitutionally designed as a TRULY NEUTRAL currency i.e. one that can't be weaponized or denied to any nation for any reason. No more concerns over this nation or that misusing its global financial power. National currencies would remain, just as they do under the dollar - the new currency would be purely for global trade. It would be quite the coup for developing world, as it would instantly level the playing field, curtailing the power of America. There can be a limited transition period exchange rate for dollars, so countries can easily switch their reserves.
Blackout38@reddit
No currency is neutral. That’s an oxymoron.
BendicantMias@reddit
It can be. You simply hardcode it into the IMF constitution that it can't use it against or deny it to anyone for any reason. That eliminates its weaponization
Blackout38@reddit
Ah so you want every country in the world to give up monetary policy and fall under one international organization. That’s a pipe dream that’ll only be won through blood.
BendicantMias@reddit
Bruh are dense? Did you fail reading comprehension in school?
They currently already use the dollar. Which is literally the currency of another country, never mind an intergovernmental organization, and is already weaponized against them cos they have no vote on the US govt.
They also still have their own national currencies, and thus still control their own monetary policy, as the dollar is only used for international trade. That wouldn't change if the dollar were replaced with this, so they still can exercise monetary policy, as this also is only used for international trade.
And the whole point is that the new institution can't weaponize it, both cos its own rules prohibit that option and cos if it ever wants to change those rules it would have to get agreement from all its members. It doesn't sit above nation, it's an intergovernmental body that's comprised OF nations and thus can only act in accordance with all the nations making it up. It doesn't have any power to weaponize it, unlike the US with its currency, which is why nations will join.
Blackout38@reddit
What are you a child? You literally don’t realize you are just describing the situation the EU is in where every member nation has to give up their Monetary policy power and a piece of their Sovereignty in exchange for a single currency all the members maintain using pegs to local currencies.
What is this organization going to do when a country wants to invade another country, justified or not? How will it settle trade disputes? How will it keep the currency stable? How will it have any authority to force the US to adopt it if the US doesn’t want to? For that matter, how will it be able to force anyone to accept it?
Best not to call names while talking out your ass.
BendicantMias@reddit
Bub Euro-users don't have their own currency, they use the Euro. What I'm talking about is nothing like that. I've literally compared it to the dollars place in international trade today, and you want to treat it like the Euro in the EU? How many times do I have to make clear that nations will still have their own national currencies and monetary policy?! Germany doesn't have its own currency, it uses the Euro. India DOES have its own currency, despite using dollars for a chunk of its international trade. With this change every nation, including the US, will be like India, not Germany. The only ones giving up their monetary policy by using it as their own currency will be nations that choose to do so, like Argentina is now under Milei. No one will be forced to.
As for your questions, the answer is simple - it won't. If you want to react to an invasion, you can enact your own trade sanctions. But they won't be denied access to this new reserve. That's the whole point. Trade disputes are to be settled between the parties involved. What, do you think the central bank ajudicates every trade dispute in a country? No they don't. And this institution wouldn't even be comparable to a central bank at that - it'll be far narrower, the only commonality being that both print money.
And the US doesn't have to adopt it if it doesn't want to. They can throw their little temper tantrum if they like. But if the rest of the world adopts it so as to free themselves of US hegemony, its precious dollar will tank in value and its debts will sink its economy now that its dollar reserve status no longer props them up. And why will others adopt it? I already told you - cos unlike the dollar it can't be used against them.
And you're the one talking out your ass. You don't even understand the idea that you think you're critiquing.
Blackout38@reddit
Stop, you don’t know anything and this is a waste of time. EU members very much still have their own currencies and they maintain the conversion rate to the Euro. Most countries have chosen to fully adopt the Euro sure but they are also completely giving up monetary policy to do so. Further those countries are incentivized to cede all sovereignty and form a single country under the EU framework, see Germany’s continued push for a United States of Europe. They are well aware they will be the dominate member and will be able to force their will on the smaller members much like they already do. You are advocating for a single world government without realizing it.
Otherwise your sanctions will mean nothing. Your currency will mean nothing. You won’t be able to settle disputes and it will flare up into wars between member nations further invalidating the currency. You’ll have mismanagement and corruption or gridlock and stagnation. Death by a thousand cuts. You’ll have nothing backing up the currency yet it’ll be free to inflate the supply of the world and the politics above, will limit any ability to adequately respond to crisis.
You are just reinventing the wheel and this is nothing new. And as I said before, it’ll only happen through blood and power that will require every nation be forced into it just like the US is able to force everyone into it because despite your naivety, yes the whole world, especially the largest economies, would have to adopt it. All this would do is recreate the same system with a new global boogyman at the helm. And you can think all you want that it’ll be fine and egalitarian but it won’t be. The biggest members will still get to bully the small ones without recourse just like they do today.
Do you think Kenya has the same say in the UN as France? Hell no and it’ll take a war to change that. Power is never ceded peacefully.
sigmaluckynine@reddit
You're talking about an impossibility. Currency (or if you want to be really old about it, minting) has always been a sovereign power. You're basically asking them to relinquish their sovereignty, let alone any potential control over their own economy. That's why there's only one example of this - the EU.
Going off the gold standard is not really breaking tradition as much as it was an evolution of how national economies works. Imagine trying to get enough gold to back your currency when your GDP is in the trillions. Let alone the potential bank run and speculative forces. It's impossible to have any stability with a gold standard in the modern economy. Also, gold doesn't really matter - it's the perception of value.
As for the 3rd point, see above about losing any control over their economy. If you want a real example, read up on Greece during the Euro Crisis and why they had to go through extreme austerity and how much of a shit show that was for the average Greek. You seem to think currency is just paper you use to buy things, but in macroeconomics currency has a huge affect on how you can either stimulate growth or restrict growth to control inflation. It's not just a bartering tool.
As for your last point, a lot of countries are already moving towards the final direction where international trade can be done on a neutral basis. A lot of this is being led by China (the pessimist in me feels this is their way of undermining American power) where China and another nation can settle trade in their local currency. You don't need an international currency as much as a system - like SWIFT
Paradoxjjw@reddit
And the EU and its eurozone states struggle plenty with their decision to do that, and eurozone countries somewhat get along with one another. BRICS countries don't even nominally get along with one another given some of them have had border skirmishes this decade.
cursedbones@reddit
That would be good but America would never let that happen. That'd be the biggest blow the their global hegemony in history. They fought hard to create it and they will fight hard to keep it. Trump talks openly about it, but any US president was and will be against it.
That said, the global economy, developing countries mostly, are slowly moving away from the dollar already. We can see the % of world trades made using dollar decreasing year by year, even when removing Russia or the equation. And that's how should it be done. Once the dollar is weak enough changes like your can be implemented at the point it would be inevitable.
BendicantMias@reddit
Well that's the point of my first line about the Global South wresting more IMF voting power away from the west. It won't be just America opposing it, Europe will too as it'd hurt the Euro's value as well. So it won't just require Brics to vote together for it, but much of the rest of the Global South as well.
nDeconstructed@reddit
I've watched this titty evolve over a decade, now. This single issue, and lack of concern, has highlighted American government ineptitude and toothlessness more than anything else.
sigmaluckynine@reddit
I disagree on how this issue should be a concern for the American government - unless you mean the loss of proxy control because there's probably going to be less power among allies (the global economy has progressed to the point that Europe is not really a central pole unless you take the whole of Europe - at which point why not give them one voice instead of varying). On the other hand, if the US did try to argue that this proposal doesn't make sense, the US is going to look as if it's imperialists overreach.
It's a lose/lose for the US in this scenario. The thing that I would be interested in is if the US can reorient traditional foreign policy or somehow support European partners and their economy to offset the change. Chances are, most likely not.
evil_brain@reddit
Low key slave rebellion.
empleadoEstatalBot@reddit
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