Small vent i've been thinking about to share
Posted by ShodaryGoji1998@reddit | xena | View on Reddit | 20 comments
Hey everyone! I've been a fan of Xena since i was 6 (started watching the show in 2004, a bit late, i know), and have been a fan ever since, now in my late 20's.
First and foremost, Xena taught me many things, such as to stand up for people who can't fight back, to stand up to people similar to some bandits in the series and i'm really grateful for how Lucy did her job as Xena... and now to my vent/rant!
Recently, i kind of got into a really bad argument with a Xena Discord server members about the relationship between Xena and Gabrielle, especially after saying that i see Xena and Gabrielle as really close friends (and sisters in trust), and i respect those who see them as soulmates. As a straight guy, i've always liked the times Xena had a male companion along with her and Gabrielle. I don't mind the way others see them as soulmates, even thought they can be that platonically as well.
I do NOT want to start any arguments, but i do wish to see if anyone else had similar experience like this? Because it's been weighing on me lately and i want to share what's been on my mind. Along with those things, and on topic.. Xena taught me to stand up for things she stood up for and i felt she's a perfect role model growing up. Xena even taught me how to fight to defend people in need, be it with words or actions.
Once again, i hope i don't piss anyone off, it's just been weighing on me
Musical_Xena@reddit
Just curious, what made the Discord argument "really bad"?
What did you want to get out of the Discord conversation, and what did the other participants seem to want from it?
ShodaryGoji1998@reddit (OP)
Well, from what I can remember, someone kinda just went off on me for saying what I said for Xena and Gabrielle, but people backed me up. I didn't mean any disrespect, but things got cleared out and I just wanted to share this experience
DanieXJ@reddit
You're a straight guy invalidating gay women's entire childhood. The reaction makes sense. Oh, and, my guess is that a lot of the women who you're categorizing as "went off" probably were there at the beginning?
You realize that the fact that Xena and Gabrielle are Queer literally saved young girls lives in the 90s? Literally (and, yes, I'm using that word correctly in this case).
Musical_Xena@reddit
Ah, it can be hard to say what's going on in those situations. It could be something you said or the way you said it, but it could also be that the person is having a rough day, that they have some emotional sensitivity due to the topic, etc. Sometimes we're reacting more to what's in our own heads than what is in front of us.
Latte-Catte@reddit
I'm glad our fellow xenites don't condone bullying. A fan is a fan at the end of the day :-)
DanieXJ@reddit
FirefighterThink1556@reddit
They are canonically soulmates and they are canonically romantic with each other, but the show was also intentionally censored and written in a way as to not alienate people who didn’t understand/want to see the romantic aspect. For the most part, they do pretty much drop the act in season 6. Of course anyone can read whatever they want into the show, no matter what the show says. I think the reason a lot of queer Xena fans are quick to be defensive about this though is because there is a long history of a lot of the people who “didn’t want to see it” coming from a place of prejudice (sometimes malicious but oftentimes unintentional, as a byproduct of the status quo in the 90s). That definitely doesn’t mean that’s the only reason people have alternate perspectives, but it is a possible reason why the fan may have been particularly sensitive. If you know that your opinion isn’t coming from a place of prejudice then you probably have nothing to feel badly about, you know that about yourself, you gave your opinion which is important to you and they have theirs, if you respect other interpretations then why does it matter if they argue with you?
Successful-Issue-450@reddit
ok im sorry you had to argue with some perpetually online person, it happens in all fandoms.
truth be told, this is one of the few gay coded shows of the 90s that actually kind of delivers, so a lot of people still engaging are people who either discovered / accepted themselves thanks to xena, so in that sense, you are right at home with people who really appreciate the show and the morals it imparts.
It also means that unlike 99% of fandoms, many of us here are gay as fuck and will see the show thru that lense, so i think you will struggle to find many people who are still into xena that appreciate the straight episodes as much as you do. Like im literally making a list as i slowly rewatch of which episodes are straight and without story to skip them lol
Valuable_Detail_4531@reddit
I’m gay (have a girlfriend) and see them just as close friends. Nothing wrong with that.
But I mainly keep quiet about this or I’ll get attacked :’)
Valuable_Detail_4531@reddit
Also, lucy’s talked about this in an interview, something along the lines of “those who wanted to see the subtext see it, and those who didn’t don’t”
trashythirst@reddit
see what you want to see, but your viewpoint is heavily ignoring so many canon events that deserve to be taken into account for lgbtq+ representation. and queer television history as a whole.
xena and gabrielle kissed a handful of times. in one, xena walked through an eternal flame as her only true soulmate and awoke gabrielle’s spelled sleep with a kiss, as a direct allusion to sleeping beauty. when fates collide was literally written as a romantic love story by a gay woman.
sure you can yell “platonic soulmates” all you want but, really, who is believing that. nearly everyone who has worked on/wrote for/acted in the show has confirmed that they were meant to be portrayed as romantically involved by the end of the series’ run. that’s just truth.
DaniDoesnt@reddit
What you have to realize is what a HUGE deal it was for us gays to finally get some representation. The fact is, according to the cast and writers, they were lovers. . And us poor gays had never never seen ourselves on screen before. In the 90s when this came out, it still wasn't 'okay' to be gay. This had a huge impact on ppl like me, a young teen, who thought I was so weird and different and broken and then I saw this beautiful love story between women and suddenly I wasn't so alone or broken.
You're free to feel however you want, it's TV, ship who you want. but I wouldn't get in arguments about it. It was a big deal to people so they're naturally going to feel the need to protect it.
Let's the gays have their moment but view the show how you want.
ShodaryGoji1998@reddit (OP)
I respect that, no hate over preferences 🫡
EvaHalliwell@reddit
Thank you for saying this!!
I know that they were supposed to be lovers, and a lot of cast and writers have confirmed. I wanted to share a similar post like yours, but I was afraid of the backlash or people trying to convince me that they were lovers. I know they were supposed to be, but the magic of friendship is what keeps me coming back to this show, storylines like this are mostly about family and lovers, but I love Xenas' take on friendship
But growing up, I loved the whole friendship arc! I didn't have many romantic relationships growing up, but I had a lot of good friends. My best friends and mine relationship really looked like Xena and Gabrielle. We celebrated Christmas with each other's families, etc. So it was a relief to see that two friends can be soulmates, and be honest: a lot of the time lovers come and go but your best friends stay untill the end.
Natstar-Lord@reddit
I also only see xena and Gabrielle as friend since my opinion is that theu both had more love tension with other people in the show which did not exist between Xena and Gabrielle.
I also do not agree that bisexuality or homosexuality could not be shows on tv during that timeperiod since Najara had those feelings with Gabrielle. And we had a lesbian couple between that actor that played xena in Gabrielle play and another woman. Grinhilda had some tension too.
That sentiment unfortunaly exist in this subreddit too, you just have to block those people and accept we won't change each others mind.
Lucky_Contribution87@reddit
I think you're not seeing Xena and Gabrielle as a couple is fine, my mom didn't until the 2000s. By then, gay rights were the topic of conversation, starting with marriage equality.
I started watching Xena with my mom in the 90s. It aired on Friday nights right after Hercules, and I didn't see the subtext either until I was in my late teens/early 20s.
Ithink you're basing your head cannon around a male relationship is perfectly reasonable. Plenty of people write Xena/Gabrielle fanfiction with one or both characters being lesbian, bisexual or straight. I think that the diversity in how we all relate to this show is beautiful! I love meeting another Xenaite, welcome!
Agent8699@reddit
All Xenites are welcome.
The most important aspects of their relationship are what we saw onscreen. Whether they shared a bedroll after the screen faded to black or slept in separate bedrolls isn’t as important as everything we did see.
That typed, it’s … nice to remember that the show was made in a different era and they had to satisfy the studio mandates and restrictions. In another world, would Gabrielle have kissed Xena back in The Quest and kick started an epic onscreen romance? Would Gabrielle have been enchanted by Aphrodite to be obsessed with … getting down and dirty with Xena in Fish, Femmes and Gems, leading to them exploring new aspects of their relationship?
We just don’t know. But, most of the TPTB did pretty much do everything in their power to present Xena and Gabrielle as a couple in all respects.
So, viewing them as friends or sisters is fine (and understandable given the writing), but could upset those for whom Xena and Gabrielle were very important, if not groundbreaking, representation of a relationship that was extremely rare to see at the time and is still somewhat rare to see in media.
RedwoodFox71@reddit
It never too late to show after it finished.
Wild_Willingness_190@reddit
It’s TV I think you can see it how you want to see it- they did have to leave it a bit ambiguous on purpose and if you’re not gay you probably weren’t picking up on all the subtext clues so makes sense you see them more as friends. Tbh their friendship is the most important part of their relationship, even tho I see it as having developed into something more. So yeah as long as you’re not dismissive about other people who see them as romantic relationships I think we should all be chill :) it’s a wonderful show and like you said- there’s much to be valued from it regardless of their relationship status.
Latte-Catte@reddit
Yes everyone should be allowed to ship who they want, have fan canon of these characters' relationship as they please. The subtext unfortunately couldn't hone in on the explicit relationship of xenagabrielle, you are not in the wrong for considering Xena to be best friends with Gabrielle. It's unfortunately still shows the product of it's time that many xenites can't accept, the subtext couldn't exceed beyond it's subtextual nature. Fans who have childhood memory of Xena Gabrielle solely as friends is completely due to the fact the xenastaff sold them that way too. And the xenastaff ALSO subtly implies they're lovers too. There's no winning in this debate. So might as well take your own headcanon and run with it completely, you wouldn't be wrong either way.
However, Xena is canonically bisexual. Men can certainly crush on Xena all they want lol, she's the main lead and it's the point to love the star of the show.
I understand Xena is part of many older fans' childhood and it can be hard to reconcile with your childhood headcanon and what it later shown to be. This is not a bug but a feature Tapert and his writer teams engineered since season 1. Since I'm a much more recent fan, I can easily look past the censorship nature and see the xenagab implications with my naked eyes.