ULPT -If someone found out they had a terminal illness and they wanted to gather as much cash as possible, but without selling or mortgaging their home… how could that be done?

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ItPutsLotionOnItSkin@reddit

without selling or mortgaging their home

That's the problem. Debtors will sue the estate and get their cut once it is sold. Best bet is to sell it to someone you trust for a great price.

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ParsnipDecent6530@reddit

Debtors can only male a claim to the estate if they know the borrower is dead. If this person's personal representative doesn't know about these debts, they can't send notices to the debtors.

So go email only for billing statements, get rid of the cards after they're maxed etc

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Mr_MacGrubber@reddit

The major companies will know. When my mom died, Chase closed all of her accounts quickly, and before we gave them notice.

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thefulpersmith@reddit

That’s funny, AT&T still required a copy of my mom’s death certificate…so did most of her creditors. Getting bills changed to my name was like pulling teeth sometimes.

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bhd_ui@reddit

Probably because ATT gets money if you terminate contract early, except if the subscriber also happens to be the decedent.

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ironicmirror@reddit

It's not funny it's capitalism.

AT&t's and the other creditors were probably not secured, so they would have a much more difficult time getting paid by the estate.

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ParsnipDecent6530@reddit

That seems fishy to me, banks shouldn't know things like that because deaths usually aren't publicized, or considered official until a death certificate is issued.

Nonetheless. Even if they closed her accounts (I'm assuming credit accounts because if they closed her checking/savings that's an actual crime) they would still need to be notified of the estate being opened so they could make their claims against it.

In op's case the PR wouldn't notify them directly. Would do the general notification in a paper of record, and the time for creditors to file a claim would pass, and op's estate wouldn't have to pay back those creditors.

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mayorofdumb@reddit

As soon as the death certificate is issued it's public record right?

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Accomplished_Tour481@reddit

When the loans go delinquent, the companies will quickly identify that the debtor is deceased. So they will do a quick online search to see there is a home involved, and send notice of the debt to the estate.

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mayorofdumb@reddit

Reverse mortgage triggers on death right?

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ParsnipDecent6530@reddit

No. They're not public record. The death of a person is reported in the local paper as a vital statistic, but the deceased's ssn is not included in that information while it is on the death certificate. Part of the reason personal representatives are appointed is to notify creditors. they do that by sending each known creditor an official letter from the probate judge and a copy of the death certificate. That's when a death is "official" for a financial institution.

The comment I was responding to about the bank closing accounts without being notified doesn't make sense... there are almost 9 billion people in the world, names are going to be the same, how many Mary Smiths could there be? And how likely is it that several of them have accounts at the same large bank... Imagine how many people would "die" if it were easy to stiff creditors that way.

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mayorofdumb@reddit

Ah ok thats weird, but wouldn't this be the reverse, the bank accidentally closed it because they thought you were dead on a bank account= bad. Credit card= good.

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Mr_MacGrubber@reddit

I’m sure they have programs that search obituaries and other public records. Yes it was credit cards, though her bank account was frozen as I remember. I assume that’s just to prevent someone from draining the account who shouldn’t have access. It’s been 8yrs now so some details I don’t remember.

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prestigiouspanda6969@reddit

why?

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Lucky-Technology-174@reddit

There are things called viaticals if you want something to google.

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DD_Wabeno@reddit

Put all current assets into trusts. This requires lawyers and costs money.

Get as many credit cards as possible. Max them out, put everything that you purchased plus cash advances into the trust(s), and make the minimum payments so they don’t default until after you die.

All assets in the trust(s) passes directly to the designated recipient/trustee upon death, without probate.

The debtors will be limited to collect from the remainder of the estate that was not placed in trust(s).

An estate planning attorney can help. This is the kind of thing that needs professional help.

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Broken_Atoms@reddit (OP)

Looking into irrevocable trusts as an option now. Thank you.

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xologo@reddit

I just got a trust payout and they withheld 10% for another year in case the estate is reachable by creditors.

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CandidateExotic9771@reddit

Irrevocable trust with someone you trust to carry out your wishes is best. Courts in the US can’t mandate those be liquidated.

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SpellingIsAhful@reddit

If you're atrustee then wouldn't the estate entail your percentage of ownership?

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DD_Wabeno@reddit

Many factors that need to be properly sorted out by a lawyer. Different states/countries all need to be considered.

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SantosFurie89@reddit

Thsi is the best answer here. Agreed. No points racking up 10k debt so 20k is taken from the probate - or the house etc is forced sold to get the lenders what's owed.

Your suggestion secures this. However idk if doing it all would constitute pre mediation to De fraud. So potentially if don't big or publically exposed, could be repocussuions of some sort I'd imagine. But it's much more shielded than not doing so

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DD_Wabeno@reddit

Yes, I thought about the premeditated part, but decided to leave that up to the OP and his/her lawyer. A lawyer probably won’t deliberately guide them into a fraudulent situation so just don’t tell them the whole plan. Six months after death when the collectors come knocking everything will be disbursed and very little left to claim. Probably shouldn’t tell the intended recipients either. No sense in setting them up to accidentally spill the beans.

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Valpo1996@reddit

Record a transfer on death deed for the house. That will avoid probate and your creditors from coming after the house.

Then open a bunch of cards. Don’t use them yet.

Get a bunch of personal loans.

Then run up the cards.

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UncleGoats@reddit

The guy in Armageddon borrowed a bunch of money from loan sharks, assuming he wouldn't make it back on Earth to take the punishment for skipping out on his loans. Doubt this would work, but who knows?

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IntroductionNeat2746@reddit

This is atrocious advice. Money sharks will 100% go after their family after death.

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SantosFurie89@reddit

Agreed. Criminals don't like losing money. Good way to get your women pimped out and house ransacked at the minimum is wager.

If you did it to multiple loan sharks. Well, I imagine it would be a world of pain. Your only solace is that they may turn on each other and become distracted.. But the Victor will likely demand cash with interest, so.. Train your family to become criminal war lords also..?

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UncleGoats@reddit

This assumes you have family you care about.

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JadedMrAmbrose@reddit

A non-Hollywood, but much safer, way to get an astronaut insurance policy is to give your family a bunch of autographs before you leave:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_insurance_covers

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UncleGoats@reddit

True, but the OP isn't an astronaut.

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Stormin_333@reddit

Since you are willing to steal, just go ahead and rob a few places. It's the same as getting credit you don't intend to pay

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Different_Net_6752@reddit

Manufacture meth.

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BusyBullet@reddit

Do you know anything about chemistry?

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Realistic-Spend7096@reddit

Go watch, Breaking Bad.

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TheHipsterBandit@reddit

Meth. Make and sell large quantities of high grade methamphetamine. Preferably in New Mexico.

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Catzsocks@reddit

Student loans are forgiven if the recipient dies.

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mister-ferguson@reddit

Sign up for a point of sale system like Square. You can run your own card as a purchase.

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flag-orama@reddit

Max cash advance on all of your CCs. go to vegas put everything on black and keep doubling up until you hit 100M

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Ok_Work7396@reddit

You need to get any equity out of your name before racking up death debt.

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typicalamericanbasta@reddit

You have to turn everything purchased into cash, so apply for credit cards (and loans at the same time). Buy gold and/or silver in coins and jewelry with the credit cards and sell for cash. You don't care what the spot price is, so sell it all over town to coin and pawn shops.

See if you can get a car loan and take out title loans. Get a few payday loans, too.

Talk to an estate lawyer about the house. Frame it as you don't want the creditors to take the house since you're up to your eyeballs in debt. Use your ill gotten gains to pay for the lawyer to secure the house.

Best of luck on your nefarious plans and sorry for the reason why you need to do this.

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fortyeightD@reddit

Rob a bank.

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Okinawa_Mike@reddit

Sorry friend but unlikely you will get anything significant money wise with a personal loan…6 maybe 8 thousand dollars at best. Hard to say about the credit card cash value but again people here asking this aren’t likely going to have the collateral property to back up something like what you are looking for. If you can keep the insurance company in the dark and find the right policy, you could go that route but you’ll have to pay in to ensure the coverage doesn’t lapse. Be careful though even though you pay in theirs likely a number of years you have to live for it to pay and would expect a medical exam. Most companies have already been burned in the past and have safeguards against this plan.

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