Nuclear inspectors leave Iran after cooperation halted with U.N. Watchdog
Posted by ObjectiveObserver420@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 201 comments
this-aint-Lisp@reddit
Hilariously, Israeli politicians are asking for economic sanctions over this. Israel, who never allowed IAEA inspections and have a secret program that actually produced nuclear weapons,
Effective_Jury4363@reddit
Why does that surprize you? Iran has threated to destroy israel numerous times, and is funding militias all over the midde east.
Israel isn't against nucleae weaponry- they are against iran having them
this-aint-Lisp@reddit
Yeah no shit. I’m sure no country in the world loves nuclear weapons more than Israel. Just imagine how many people you can kill with those things.
FacelessMint@reddit
What a weirdo argument. How many nuclear weapons has Israel ever employed?
ExtremeAcceptable289@reddit
In the Yom Kippur war when they got cucked, they were hard set on the use of nuclear weapons, until America gave them aid
FacelessMint@reddit
So even though they had the capability and the perceived need to use it they still didn't?
ExtremeAcceptable289@reddit
They didnt because daddy america saved them
FacelessMint@reddit
Ok... So the answer to "How many nuclear weapons has Israel ever employed?" is...?
ExtremeAcceptable289@reddit
That they were planning on using up to 15 nukes, until daddy america gave them aid and forced them not to
this-aint-Lisp@reddit
A rogue state of mostly religious zealots and unhinged colonists should never be allowed to own nuclear weapons.
Zipz@reddit
You just described iran….
Holy moly
FacelessMint@reddit
Israel is mostly secular or vaguely-religious. This 2016 Pew Poll shows as much and this follow up polling from 2025 suggests that Israelis are more likely to become less religious as they age versus more.
There are relatively few "unhinged colonists" unless you consider all Jewish Israelis as such. Let's say all Israelis living in the West Bank are "unhinged colonists". That makes up about 700k of the roughly 10 million Israelis.
Do you not believe that Israel has had nuclear weapons since roughly the 70s? If they are so bloodthirsty to use them... Why haven't they? It is a silly argument.
lewkiamurfarther@reddit
All of them—nuclear weapons are only useful for their deterrent capability. Any country that uses them risks becoming the most nuked country in the world. The pro-genocide talking points are running thin.
Ok-Investigator1895@reddit
No idea, talking about them too much gets you kidnapped by Mossad.
KaiBahamut@reddit
no one but the US as employed them, so it's not a strong argument.
FacelessMint@reddit
What argument do you think I'm making and what argument do you think I'm countering?
Something_231@reddit
lmao the same talking points always
Effective_Jury4363@reddit
Would you prefer an original lie, or the truth?
The reasons didn't change- why should the argument?
Something_231@reddit
dude ISRAEL is threatening MULTIPLE countries to make them part of GREATER ISRAEL, As we speak are killing Arabs by the minute. And Iran doesn't have the right to have nukes? give me a break... I can't believe you guys think you're the victims lol
Effective_Jury4363@reddit
For example?
Something_231@reddit
oh you've one of those who support a regime that they know nothing about lol, goodbye, not worth my time
holdMyBeerBoy@reddit
Wanna know more about that, can you clarify which countries should be part of israel.
lewkiamurfarther@reddit
Just for example: according to Daniella Weiss, Israel should comprise present-day Israel, along with all of Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan, and also part of Turkey.
holdMyBeerBoy@reddit
Today I learned that Daniella Weiss IS Israel.
ExtremeAcceptable289@reddit
"Greater Israel" usually refers to an Israel that encompasses from the Euphrates to the Nile
Gimpknee@reddit
Greater Israel has a fluid definition, at its narrowest it would encompass the Occupied Territories, but historically, as in 20th century pre-independence Zionist movements, and presently on the Israeli far-right, as represented by figures like Smotrich and those influenced by Kahane, it would include at very least the historical Transjordan, parts of Syria, Lebanon, and Egypt.
lewkiamurfarther@reddit
Are
You
Fucking
Kidding?
ActuatorFit416@reddit
Important people in Israel have called for the use of nuclear weapons in Gaza.
photoinduced@reddit
For eg the extra bit of land you took from Syria? One of many
IdiAmini@reddit
Who is a bigger threat in the region? The country that has bombed 4 countries and Gaza in the last two years, has obtained nukes by illegal means and has a doctrine of (Samson doctrine) scorched earth, or the country that didn't and has a religious doctrine stating that the building of nuclear weapons is prohibited?
sentrux@reddit
You are completely missing the point here.
Effective_Jury4363@reddit
"Israel is hypocritical" is the point. That's barely an argument.
Thing is- israel doesn't actually care how iran doesn't get nuclear weaponry. Whether it be war or a deal, doesn't matter.
FormerLawfulness6@reddit
Israel doesn't care whether Iran ever pursues nuclear weapons at all. The goal has been regime change and partition along sectarian lines to destroy any possibility of a competitive power and to keep it that way indefinately because Israel believes that it is fundamentally impossible for the threat to ever be less than it is. Israel's national philosophy of paranoia has made it a direct threat to any future possibility of peace or stability.
Effective_Jury4363@reddit
Yet, they have spent considerable resources to slow it down. Anything from stuxnet, to lacing xentrifuges with explosives.
Every single time israel did that- it blew up in their face. Yom kipur war? October 7th?
FormerLawfulness6@reddit
Good job demonstrating the national paranoia that makes Israel such a threat to the future of peace and stability.
Zipz@reddit
No he did a good job of describing why you were completely wrong
Then instead of addressing his point which you couldn’t you switched the topic
FormerLawfulness6@reddit
Israel attacked civilian grade nuclear systems because they oppose Iran having any development whatsoever. They do not care whether a weapons program exists now or is likely to innthe future. That is evident from the fact that they disingenuously use improved enrichment as "proof" when this is absolutely NEVER the case elsewhere.
The fact of the matter is that Iran was limited to less than 4% enrichment under the JCPOA. Which they abided by. Isrsel opposed that deal because they want to ban all enrichment on Iranian soil entirely. This is because they want to prevent Iran from pursuing any measures for energy independence and any measures that would insulate their economy from the decades of sanctions.
Trump unilaterally ended the nuclear deal. And murdered a top general in an illegal air strike. Iran, logically, responded to these acts of aggression by trying to improve their negotiating position to prove they were serious. The US and Israel treat Arab sovereignty and development as a threat unless it is under their control and able to be separated from Asia. That is the core of this issue.
The second point was just baseless paranoia that pretends Israel was innocently minding its own business. Israel repeatedly committed acts of aggression against their neighbors, especially Egypt leading up to the war. And with Gaza, the ongoing illegal occupation that Zionists pretend means something other than it does in the rest of the world was the proximate cause.
I have no respect for Israel's paranoid genocidal nationalist aggression, nor the forever wars they are determined to impose on the region to establish unilateral control through terror. That is the official foreign policy of the Israeli government, that all of Palestine will be under Jewish sovereignty alone and to terrorize their neighbors into such deep submission that no one will dare lift a hand even against invasions, air raids, and assassinations.
Zipz@reddit
Yet Iran has Uranium enriched to higher than 4 percent. Funny how that works.
Jesus Christ I couldn’t even read past that
FormerLawfulness6@reddit
You should try reading sometime and not basing your opinions on presumption.
After the deal was unilaterally ended. Both Biden and Trump violated the terms of the JCPOA, then Trump tore it up entirely. At that point Iran was free of any obligations under it.
They were still bound by the Nonproliferation Treaty. But the NPT does not limit enrichment so long as it doesn't become a weapons program.
All parties agree that Iran had no nuclear weapons program nor any political plan to make one. Instead, the US and Israel substituted the fact that they had demonstrated the capacity to enrich to 60% as evidence and just pretended it was the same even though it has never been used that way anywhere else. Nuclear weapons require 90% enrichment, which they could do in theory but have not.
Zipz@reddit
Again, you are ignoring the issue.
YOU DON'T NEED 60 percent for anything other than trying to get to one day get to a higher percent for BOMBS
JESUS FREAKING CHRIST
IMAGINE DEFENDING IRANS GENOCIDAL REGIME
This sub is something else
FormerLawfulness6@reddit
Or proving that they have the capacity in order to get better treatment from the people who have made it their life's mission to control every government by force and direct their world's respirces to the enrichment of the US to the exclusion of all others. Which inherently forces other countries to take up a defensive position against this neoimperialism.
And again, just relying on played out Cold War paranoia that if we ever let another country off their knees they'll try to destroy us. It's irrational and destructive and leads to the decline of the Western world. It's time to start recognizing that only a multi-polar world will have any chance at stability, that includes recognizing regimes that don't abide by US values.
Try listening to anything outside of neo-con warmongering. The world is actually not all out to get us. They want us to stop trying to force regime change by starving the population and bombing cities.
Zipz@reddit
Or you know the actual thing they want a bomb
It’s funny how you try to ignore the obvious and keep on throwing out lies
FormerLawfulness6@reddit
Threatening with a bomb implies the presence of an actual bomb. Proving their capacity to advance without actually pursuing a weapons program can't be substituted to invent an imminent threat that objectively only exists in the hypothetical future. That's not how time works.
What you're saying is that any development that could potentially, at some undetermined time in the future maybe be weaponized if the government starts a new program should be justification enough to destroy all adjacent technology and kill every scientist involved with the field. In this case, including a doctor working on nuclear medicine, you know radiation therapy for cancer. Sanctions on nuclear material mean that radiation therapy is nearly impossible to get in most Middle Eastern countries, requiring them to wait for medical visas while the disease progresses. But you never hear about all the ways our policy sentences people to death and poverty. Because it's so much simpler if you just pretend they "hate us for or freedoms" or whatever bullshit line they're pushing to justify this decade's wars.
Zipz@reddit
So again they want to threaten the world with a bomb. Yet you are confused why people across the world are upset about it?
It’s really weird.
Remind me how do you feel about Israel’s nukes?
FormerLawfulness6@reddit
I've lived in the West my whole life and heard how people talk casually about "bombing x country back to the stone age" or "turn the region into glass". I've lost count of how many of my neighbors legitimately believe that mass murder, killing entire cities worth of civilians, is the best and most moral way to fight a war. So, no, I'm not super pressed about words that are not backed up by military action. Not when my country can't even keep track of how many wars we're involved in.
Thing is, in the US, saying "death to America" is legally protected under the 1st Amendment. So it seems pretty stupid to threaten to kill another few million people half a world away without material evidence of a concrete and immediate threat. Just because our intellectually vapid and morally bankrupt politicians find negotiating with sovereign states inconvenient and imagine starving the people will make them more compliant.
My government's foreign policy is the dumbest and most heinous crime against humanity this century bar none. No other country poses as much threat to peace and stability as America.
And, no, the future possibility of a program that objectively does not exist now is not the same as having a bomb or even the imminent threat of a bomb. "A" does not equal "not A" is the most basic rule of math and logic. I refuse to subordinate my capacity for reason to excuse my government' illegal acts of aggression
Effective_Jury4363@reddit
Being paranoid does not mean people aren't after you.
Israel isn't wrong by not underestimating threats.
FormerLawfulness6@reddit
Right, so just doubling down on the pathological paranoia. If Israel is determined to be an existential threat that terrorizes and destroys every one of their neighbors forever to prevent them from rising, then Israel the biggest threat to ever exist in the region and should be treated as such.
How do you not see that this paranoid belligerence and inability to see anyone as anything but an enemy or future enemy is the reason why Israel is hated?
It's an inherently unstable foundation for a government that will cause Israel to destroy itself one way or another. There is no win condition here, just more war forever until Israel changes or finds itself isolated as a rogue state with no support and no protection.
oGsBumder@reddit
How is Israel “paranoid” when Iran literally publically states that a core national goal is the destruction of Israel, and spends decades and billions upon billions of dollars building and supporting terror networks to work towards that aim?
kapsama@reddit
Resisting Israeli colonialism, apartheid and genocide is terrorism in the eyes of people who support all three only.
FormerLawfulness6@reddit
As opposed to the US-Israeli campaign to destroy at least 7 countries over the past decades. You say this like there hasn't been a systematic plan to control and fragment the region for foreign interests since the 19th century. Conquering Iran has been a centerpiece of US-Israeli policy since they overthrew our puppet king. Countries in the region see Israel as an outpost of imperialism and a staging area for every foreign invasion against them because that's also how the US government sees it.
The_Nut_Majician@reddit
Ya your country is hypocritical and its no wonder ever Around the world hates you right now.
You guys just want hegemony in the region so you can kill arabs, destroy mosques and get your greater israel.
This is why the genocide in gaza is happening and nothing is happening to you right now because the world is bought by your government.
Your not here in the middle east for peace your hear to subjugate ,muslims,Christians, arabs, iranians you name it until you stand on there necks and give them permission to breath even.
Effective_Jury4363@reddit
Started with the protocols of the elders of zion early today, don't we?
We are here because europeans slaughtered in the millions, and we promised ourselves "never again"- we will not be helpless victims again.
The_Nut_Majician@reddit
And to fulfill that promise you will murder all arabs.
Effective_Jury4363@reddit
If arabs try to murder us- yes. Jordan and egypt are no longer our enemies. Just saying. Jordan might even be a friend
The_Nut_Majician@reddit
You will start with the arabs in gaza as you starve them slowly.
lewkiamurfarther@reddit
Iran has never had a nuclear weapons program. Under the NPT, Iran is not only guaranteed the right to a civil nuclear (energy) program (actually, this right exists even without the NPT), but also guaranteed support from the international community to build that program.
OTOH, Israel considers Iran an economic threat. Israel (and its owners in the United States and UK) do not want Iran to be capable of meeting its domestic energy needs, or else Israel's economic advantage will disappear.
Israel is the primary source of instability in the Middle East. Israel is a terrorist state, as we have seen especially clearly in the past 2 years (Israel has targeted Gaza, the West Bank, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, and Iran in that short time). And even though Iran has never had a nuclear weapons program—in fact, their leader has declared it to be against the law for the government to pursue one—the problem of constant Israeli aggression toward its neighbors would be solved immediately if Iran did have nuclear weapons. Nuclear weapons are only valuable for their deterrent capability. The moment a country uses a nuclear weapon—particularly in a first strike—it becomes the most nuked country on the planet. Thus Iran would have no incentive to use nuclear weapons against Israel. Meanwhile, there is virtually nothing stopping Israel from nuking Iran (as Israel, unlike Iran, has a huge stockpile of uninspected and unaccounted nuclear weapons, all controlled by absolute nutbags), and in fact Israeli leaders regularly float the idea in the Knesset.
Again: Israel is a terrorist state. It is the primary source of instability in the Middle East. Personally, I would rather no country had nuclear weapons. But Israel has a ton of them, so here we are. Meanwhile, Iran—which has submitted to inspections, and has signed all kinds of regulations (regulations which Israel has not only not signed, but has scoffed at with contempt for all international order)—has a right to build its civil nuclear program. Israel keeps trying to start war between the US and Iran in order to prevent Iran from meeting its own domestic energy needs.
Simply put, the actions of the state of Israel are sociopathic. And since Israel is the client state of my own country, the taxes I pay to my government (which are taken from the money I earn with my sweat and blood) are responsible for that sociopathy. I did not choose this. No one chose this except for the oligarchs and the crazies in the US ruling class and the Israeli government. They are responsible, and they have to be stopped. I will be animated by this cause until the day I die.
Effective_Jury4363@reddit
AMAD in the 1980s.
Iran is also enriching uranium far beyond what is needed for a civilian nuclear program.
And I suppose israel is ignoring hezbulla and the houtis- two militias that attacked israel, and are funded by iran?
Don't make me laugh.
Or in other words- iranian militias would be able to freely operate, and be protected from israeli attacks.
Hezbulla starts firing missiles? Well, now israel can't attack them- it could cause a nuclear war.
Turgius_Lupus@reddit
Has Israel tried not invading, bombing and illegibly occupying other's land then screaming about how you are all poor innocent victims when it comes back to bite you and you use that as an excuse to engage in more of it?
throwawayyawaworth77@reddit
Well, yes, if you count the decades long stable peace treaties with its two largest neighbors Egypt and Jordan. It helped when those countries agreed to recognize Israel’s right to exist and also accept peaceful coexistence. As soon as that happened, the violence stopped.
I’m sure you have your slogans to explain that away, but that’s what actually happened
Turgius_Lupus@reddit
You seem to be forgetting that Israel's conflict with Iran has its origins in Israel's invasion of southern Lebanon, inserting itself into the civil war and sectarian violence, followed by a nearly two-decade-long military occupation.
As for Israel’s relationships with Egypt and Jordan, they are entirely conditional on U.S. financial support, effectively bribes. These deals aren’t something Israel accomplished on its own, but something made possible by constant American funding which is not guaranteed. Particularly post boomer gen.
Israel has long maintained that it has the freedom to conduct military operations anywhere in the region without declaring war or respecting sovereignty, insisting its borders don’t actually end at its borders. But that posture only worked because its adversaries couldn’t, or weren't willing to hit back. That has clearly changed. Especially now that Israel has assassinated the Iranian old guard who advocated endless patience, and proxies over conventional retaliation. Decapitation strikes have never worked, and you can't conduct a foreign policy based on them.
Weird_Point_4262@reddit
Ok then they shouldn't have a problem with inspections
Effective_Jury4363@reddit
Inspections to iran? Of course they have no issue.
KaiBahamut@reddit
Inspections of Israel's Nuclear Stockpile, my guy
Ok_Smoke4152@reddit
I love israelis' being completely insufferable whenever given the chance. Least self-aware group of baby murderers on the planet. You should leave the propoganda to the bots.
Intrepid-Debate5395@reddit
Really shows why almost the whole world has a negative perception of your country
stygg12@reddit
Inspection to Israel as well? Like let us know what’s up with your nukes?
kaisersmemetrench@reddit
Israel has literal kahanists in power atm. Kahanists who have called for the “cleansing” of Gaza. The rest of the Middle East should have the right to oppose Israel’s nuclear weaponry too by that logic
Effective_Jury4363@reddit
They are already opposed.
Killeroftanks@reddit
Israel had a nuclear program back when they were on friendly terms.
Well iran was friendly, Israel was just being a cunt like normal.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Israel don’t like the NPT. Well done Israel, you’ve successfully torn it up. And you didn’t even sign it.
usefulidiotsavant@reddit
Israel is not a member of the NPT, Iran was, it was basically the only leverage the international community had to dissuade Iran from proliferation. The Israeli/American attack achieved very little but gives Iran the perfect reason to withdraw from the NPT, which is allowed "extraordinary events, related to the subject matter of this Treaty, have jeopardized the supreme interests of its country". And it's hard to find more extraordinary events.
I really struggle to understand the American/Israeli thought process here. Are you ready to do a ground invasion? Do you think you can force a regime change only with airstrikes? If the answer to both question is a big fat NO, then what do you expect them to do when you paint them into a corner, diplomacy is no longer functional and building the bomb is the only real option they have?
If you squint at this shit show just right, it look exactly like two rightwing wannabe-dictators have instigated a new war and locked Iran on a nuclear trajectory only for personal political gains in the very short run, because they won't have to live with the consequences anyway.
EaklebeeTheUncertain@reddit
Yes. The Israeli government definitely wants America to do that, and there are plenty of people in the American security establishment who've wanted that since the 2000s. Whether or not Trump wants that depends on the last person he spoke to.
usefulidiotsavant@reddit
How many of them still want that after the 2021 flustercuck in Afghanistan? Are they relevant or just the village clowns?
Iran is larger than Iraq and Afghanistan combined, has a sizable and relatively modern defense industry and has been preparing for war for decades. Anyone trying to get them on the ground is looking at tens of thousands in casualties. This is likely to be the most powerful enemy US has faced since Soviet-supported Vietnam and they would go into battle 100% alone, not a single NATO member or traditional US ally will join this war.
It goes without saying.
MoChreachSMoLeir@reddit
I think they want the same thing as Israel wants Iran to be: the New Syria. Yes, that would inevitably mean more terrorism and chaös in the region, but Israel is relatively insulated from that. As well, it would allow Israel to be a genuine hegemon with its only real rival removed from the ocassion, leaving only the friendly Gulf States as powers having independent authority. Finally, with Iran a hotbed of instability and producing security threats, whether they be Islamists, separatists, or simply warlords, the Gulf States would become reliant on Israeli military might to combat any security threat that would cross into the Persian Gulf. For Israel, destroying the Iranian state is a win-win-win. It's utterly monstrous, but that's what they want.
dontneedaknow@reddit
we have plenty of pacific ocean for weapons testing...
Are you aware that The sunni majority states are quietly moving in exactly Israels direction out of concern for the ambitions of Shia Iran?
And yes I actually know what the difference is.
Ali is important as fuck to the relevant sect.
MoChreachSMoLeir@reddit
What you don't know is that there has been soft, very slow, but still real détante between the Gulf. Why? With the collapse of their proxy network and the extermination of Armenia becoming inevitable, Iran is surrounded on all sides and in an incredibly weak position. Iran are desperate, and temporarily giving up ambitions in the Gulf is necessary for regime and state survival. The Gulf States know this. They also know that a collapse of the Iranian regime is likely to lead to a massive refugee and humanitarian crisis that the Gulf will bear the brunt of. The Gulf has no interest in Iran's collapse, but does have interest in preserving a dependent, subservient, and weak Iran that poses no threat militarily, but also no threat of a grave humanitarian collapse. Israel simply has no interest in this. Israelis believe Iran is an existential threat and their security doctrine has become something like "destroy any one who could pose a threat ever," which they can do because of their military superiority. Why are they intentionally targetting Ahmed al Shara'a's Syria, despite its willingness for normalization with Israel? Because why let a revival get strong, when preserving it as a failed state means it can never pose a threat. Egypt and Jordan pose no threat because they're entirely dependent on Israel for survival. They're both, in practice, Israeli puppet states. If they disobey Israel, the US will deplete them of funding, Israel will stop their military cooperation against internal regime threats, and if worst comes to worse, Israel can easily destroy their militaries and collapse their governments, leading to a grave humanitarian crisis that Israel won't have to deal with, but Europe and the Gulf will.
dontneedaknow@reddit
Israel has a quiet history with the kurds as well.
HaxboyYT@reddit
It’s not happening. It’d be the biggest military shitshow of the century
Volodio@reddit
I don't think the NPT was a very effective leverage considering Iran was already enriching way above civilian levels before the war.
Diplomacy is functional and it is precisely the goal of the strikes to force Iran back to the table when before it was stalling for time and going nowhere diplomatically. Now the talks have resumed and the Iranians are aware that there is some pressure in the form of Israeli strikes if they refuse to negotiate in good faith for the dismantlement of their nuclear program.
Iran is not really backed into a corner or only in the sense that it is pushed to admit a defeat in its struggle against Israel or to escalate closer to total war, which it is doubtful it can sustain. Iran locked itself in this situation when it threatened the security of Israel so much through proxys and the threat of nuclear annihilation. After the 7 October, it was clear that the threat was very real and Israel could no longer ignore it. Iran could have chosen to disavow Hamas after the attack or to at least dismantle its nuclear program, but as it did neither it confirmed the Israeli worry for its own security.
usefulidiotsavant@reddit
Iran stood by and implemented the actions of the JCPOA until the American withdrawal in 2018. At least, there is no substantial evidence presented to the contrary other than Trumpian verbal incontinence. So, this story of an Iran hellbent on getting nuclear weapons and annihilating Israel does not really hold water, it's pretty clear they regard their nuclear capabilities as a leverage to control sanctions while still projecting power in the region, and they are aware a total voluntary denuclearization would not improve their negotiating hand; even without nukes, they would still be sanctioned unless the islamic regime undergoes a fundamental values and goals shift that is very unlikely to happen.
So this is the climate they restarted the enrichment and stockpiling but still, not to weapons level.
The narative that Israel with US help has forced Iran to admit defeat and curbed its nuclear ambitions is quite far fetched. Short of a ground invasion or regime collapse, there is nothing that can stop Iran from pursuing and obtaining nuclear weapons in the next decade. Israel, a much smaller economy then than Iran today, did it in in the 60s in a secret facility beneath Dimona, while UN inspectors were doing their jobs above their heads. The technology is much widely available and understood today and the footprint for the remaining work is miniscule, it's very unlikely any sat photo will reveal, say a centrifuge hall hidden inside a disused gallery of the Tehran metro.
So Iran can and will acquire nuclear weapons, the only question was if it was in the interest of the Islamic regime to do so. That question is now settled.
Volodio@reddit
The JCPOA was not enough in itself to guarantee Iran would not get nuclear weapons which is why it was opposed by everyone in Israel including the opposition parties. It is not just a case of Netanyahu using foreign policy for domestic political gain when his opponents agreed with him on the issue.
The idea that Iran was only pursuing nuclear weapons as a way to get leverage for sanctions relief does not make sense with their refusal to actually negotiate in good faith for the dismantlement of their nuclear program in exchange for sanctions relief. If you were right about this, they could have negotiated the same deal with Trump back in 2018, maybe make a few more concessions on the nuclear program which would not have mattered in a scenario where the goal was the sanctions relief and not the nuclear program, in order to give him a domestic win while getting the sanctions relief they wanted. They could have accepted Biden's offer to renegotiate the deal. They could also have negotiated in good faith prior to the 12 Days War which would have decreased the likelihood for the Israeli attack.
I disagree with your assessment of the Iranian capabilities to continue its nuclear program. Israel can continue the bombing of Iran but decrease its intensity and only target the nuclear program to prevent its continuation. The 12 Days War clearly proved there was a lot of Mossad infiltration which allows Israel to be informed on the advancement of the Iranian nuclear program.
Alternatively, Israel can intensify the strikes while focusing on the civilian economy and infrastructure to destroy the Iranian economy and prevent the government from running even the most basic functions of the country, much less continue an expensive nuclear program.
And if Israel is really desperate for its security, it can launch a nuclear first strike to entirely destroy Iran before it gets the ability to destroy Israel.
Moreover, while yes you are right that the technology for nuclear devices is easy, it is much harder to develop them because of the resources and the engineering problems involved. It is even harder to miniaturize them in order to put them on a weapon.
I agree that there is a possibility for Iran to be further along on its nuclear program than the rest of the world knows. But I think it is only possible for Iran to have this advance if it already has a nuclear program running unobstructed and not if it is reduced by its enemies.
lewkiamurfarther@reddit
As a bargaining chip, because Israel and the US keep doing this bad-faith negotiation of deals.
The bullshit about "proxies" is just an Israeli talking point. Israel sees a proxy in every bit of funding given to Palestinian resistance groups by any national from a country that isn't Israel. (Reminder: Netanyahu propped up Hamas for more than a decade. See also: "Qatargate".)
Iran has never had a nuclear weapons program, and in fact there has never been the political will to begin one in Iran. The real issue Israel has with Iran's nuclear (energy) program is that it would allow Iran to meet its domestic energy needs, and threaten Israel's economic dominance of the Middle East.
Stop believing everything you read on ynet.
Volodio@reddit
How was the NPT even supposed to be a bargaining ship?
It is not just an Israeli talking point. It is a fact recognized by pretty much everyone in talking about geopolitics. Iran does use proxies which it funds and arms in order to spread its influence in the Middle East and fight Israel.
And yes, before the 7 October, Israel allowed money to go from Qatar to Hamas, just like it supplied Gaza in water and electricity and was in the process of allowing more Gazans to work in Israel, because they made the mistake of thinking Hamas could be reasoned with and would eventually become more moderate. It was not because Netanyahu propped Hamas, it was because Israel thought Hamas could be convinced to abandon its extremist policy. I agree it was a mistake.
Iran had a nuclear weapon program. This is why it has enriched way above civilian level. Israel does not care in the slightest about Iran meeting its domestic needs through a civilian nuclear program, and why would it? One of the suggestions that Israel is fine with is even for Iran to not have enrichment facilities and buy the uranium from other countries to ensure the program stays civilian.
This idea that Israel is opposed to a civilian nuclear program does not even make sense considering during the 12 Days War Israel did not strike at the civilian nuclear power plants despite having the opportunity to do so.
The idea that Iran needs nuclear power to meet its domestic energy needs is absurd considering Iran has the third largest oil reserves and the second largest gas reserves in the world. The vast vast majority of the Iranian energy is coming from gas and nuclear represents less than 1% of its electricity production.
Israel also has no economic dominance in the Middle East. The Middle East is full of states with a lot of petrol and gas which have more than enough for their own consumption and to also export it.
I'm not sure where your information is coming from, but I would recommend switching to another news source because your take is so absurd as to be ridiculous.
lewkiamurfarther@reddit
Like every other norm supported by the civilians of virtually every nation on earth, and summarily dismissed and/or selectively enforced by world powers... The moment it affects Israel on the world stage, it is torn up completely.
Israel is a terrorist state.
Czart@reddit
Israel never signed NPT. Unlike North Korea and their buddy russia.
MasterDefibrillator@reddit
Unless something changed, Iran is already under like maximum sanctions, and have been since 2018.
overtoke@reddit
israel does not want inspectors in iran. they want a boogey man.
Kiboune@reddit
Would be new level of hypocrisy if Iran will be sanctioned, while Israel isn't, after everything they have done to Palestine
Aenjeprekemaluci@reddit
Thats why int orgs credibility are breaking down...
beefprime@reddit
No mention at all that the IAEA has been passing information to western powers that was used to assassinate nuclear scientists, no mention that Grossi's report was concerning old, inactive sites and was rammed through on a deadline to manufacture consent for the Israeli "pre-emptive strike" and the following US attacks on nuclear sites, just reporting on this as a way to mention "Iran" and "Nuclear" in the same article to keep beating those war drums.
The IAEA is a completely compromised instrument of western imperialism. Why the fuck would Iran ever cooperate with it again?
UltimateKane99@reddit
This is nonsense.
There was categorical HARD data proving that Iran was enriching uranium to weapons-grade level and was 3 days from having enough for its first warhead as of June 9th. This isn't some, "Oh, they CAN do this," this is, "They were actively enriching the uranium to weapons grade concentration right in front of the inspectors."
These were the experts who were in consensus, not random nobodies or some sort of plants. These were the people, on the ground, in Iran.
The FACTS of the situation were crystal clear. The IAEA wasn't "used as a weapon," they explicitly and actively were breaking the rules of the multi-governmental oversight body. It's also comprised of many governments that are NOT western-aligned.
Arguing that it was "manufactured consent" flies directly in the face of every single report that came out of the IAEA regarding the nuclear weapons program that Iran was explicitly moving towards.
beefprime@reddit
We've known its been enriching uranium to this degree for a long time, its been used to malign and paint Iran as a villain for just as long, they still don't have a bomb. In addition Iran being able to produce weapons grade in ~3 days with what it has has been the case for many years, it is not some new condition, and in fact Iran has had enough enriched uranium for multiple weapons for many years. This is one of the many reasons this report is manufactured consent, it is taking a condition that has been the status quo for years, writing up a report about it, and pushing that report out on a deadline to serve as the subject of editorials and fearmongering in the media to excuse a pre-emptive attack on a weapons program that does not exist.
That is not what the report claims. At no point is the report saying Iran is currently enriching uranium to weapons grade right in front of the inspectors (or not in front of them, either).
The bullet points for this state "Iran COULD produce", "Iran CAN convert", or "the two facilities together COULD produce" (emphasis mine), not that they ARE doing those things.
Again I'll remind you that the current ~60% enrichment level that Iran is performing has been the case for many years now. There is no real change.
The "multi-governmental" oversight body that voted on obviously political lines, with western aligned like Germany/Italy/UK/etc, or western subjugated governments like Colombia voting FOR and nonaligned universally abstaining or not voting while Russia/China/Burkina Faso voted against. Its kind of dishonest to look at a clearly politically aligned vote like this and imply its somehow even handed in any way.
Absolutely none of which voted for this report's release.
Nice how you don't mention that the reason they were "breaking" those rules was because the people who made the agreement on the US side had already abrogated the deal and that Iran had found evidence through its intelligence services that the IAEA was passing Israel information (obviously taking this with a grain of salt considering the source is inherently biased).
So just to sum up: we have a report that reports nothing new, that was timed for the end of Trump's 60 day negotiation period and just before planned Israeli strikes, that was voted on stark geopolitical fault lines, that was promptly picked up and used to generate FUD/propaganda by western media, and that was followed up immediately by a pre-emptive strike on a state with a nuclear program that every party (except Israel) has openly acknowledged is not weaponized, but the report wasn't political, we swear. Definitely not manufactured consent. ;)
karateguzman@reddit
It’s kinda funny hearing people talk about IAEA the way Israel talks about the UN
imunfair@reddit
I don't think there's really any doubt that the US has intelligence agency tentacles in the inspection team. There's a reason Russia was cautious and slow about giving them access to areas in the ZNPP - they were aware it was a security risk that could be used for planning assaults if they didn't control their access to non-nuclear areas of the plant.
For Iran it's more about confirming that we did the damage we think we did - and there's no way they want to give us a post-attack damage report and invite further attacks if we missed our mark of destroying their nuclear program.
UltimateKane99@reddit
There really should be. It's WAY more important to keep those people impartial because all of their reports are publicly available, anyway, and they'd get much more out of getting other engineers/scientists to turn over their data to Mossad or the CIA.
karateguzman@reddit
I get it but it’s still funny.
“The UN is a completely compromised instrument of anti-semitism. Why the fuck would Israel ever cooperate with it again?”
imunfair@reddit
I mean that's pretty much what Israel says about anyone who opposes them, it isn't unique to the UN, they just happen to be the ones who had enough of a spine to call a spade a spade when Israeli leaders were killing civilians en-masse while making dehumanizing statements about them.
It was textbook and honestly a bit shameful how long the UN held back on issuing the arrest warrants after the prosecutor requested them - likely due to US influence imo, since we're the ones who have been blocking all international action against Israel in the UN since the start of the war, even after our allies started voting against us on the issue.
dontneedaknow@reddit
You need some greater perpectives.
All of human history we either traded or we fought eaach other over the resource.
People romanticize hunter gatherers and pre neolithic lifestyles, but they never seem to realize that every waking moment was a fight to survive.
Most everyone died before age 3, and a large potion of women died in childbirth.
Now where is the UN headquarters?
Every single country with any wherewithall uses the UN for espionage...
imunfair@reddit
I don't have a problem with survival of the fittest, but you can't argue that it's a barbaric concept that we've evolved past and then turn around and support it being done slyly while claiming not to be doing it.
If Israel and Palestine want to kill each other by those rules, then they should actually play by those rules, not with the US supplying Israel and holding back all the neighbors from intervening while they beat up on a defenseless population. If you want to genocide a population and steal their land you should have to defend yourself from neighbors that want to stop you from doing it, if those are really the rules you want to play by.
Instead they want to pick and choose, they want to bully the Palestinians out of their land without actually paying the cost of the war that it would take to do so. So it's only fair the UN gets to call them out for their dual standard and hold them to the "civilized" rules if that's the fig leaf they want to use to avoid the retribution they're owed by the law of jungle rules.
karateguzman@reddit
Israel’s beef with the UN goes back way further than this current conflict tbf
And I’m not commenting on how valid or not Iran and Israel’s claims are, just how the parallels between the two are funny
StickyThickStick@reddit
What’s the source of the IAEA passing secret information to western powers?
HockeyHocki@reddit
Trust me bro
redelastic@reddit
How the US and Israel Used Rafael Grossi to Hijack the IAEA and Start a War on Iran
Spying on Iran: How MI6 infiltrated the IAEA
HockeyHocki@reddit
Neither backs up OP's claims with evidence, they read like bad conspiracy theories tbh
Above is only mention of the nuclear scientists, if his source is Iranian governments allegations thats just pathetic
redelastic@reddit
And yet you believe everything Israel tells you, like a gullible little lad.
HockeyHocki@reddit
And you've no evidence to back that up either. That's your thing is it, throwing out accusations as if they were facts
Meanwhile your own news sources are on Russian and Iranian payroll, pretty obvious who's been drinking the Kool aid smh
redelastic@reddit
So when are you making the big change to the new flair? Israel is calling.
Hey, I saw the video of you! Congrats.
thegodfather0504@reddit
I would. Mossad be crazy.
half-baked_axx@reddit
Anyone giving them the benefit of the doubt is beyond naive.
redelastic@reddit
How the US and Israel Used Rafael Grossi to Hijack the IAEA and Start a War on Iran
Spying on Iran: How MI6 infiltrated the IAEA
StickyThickStick@reddit
Can you cite please? I red the article and it contains zero evidence.
The article says that you can’t be sure that Israel didn’t plant enriched uranium itself inside the sites in Iran not that Israel has agents inside the IAEA
showerbridge@reddit
I don't understand why Iran even trust IAEA... Why does IAEA keep having these meetings with Iran, where Israel talks about Iran developing nuclear weapons... Israel is not part of the treaty and have nuclear bombs...
IAEA have no respect for Iran... IAEA talks with Israel, who wants to destroy Iran calling for regime change since the 1980s...
IAEA seem to listen to Israel quite a lot, the article is well sourced using Israeli media, like this one https://www.timesofisrael.com/bennett-to-iaea-chief-israel-reserves-right-to-act-against-irans-nuclear-program/
StickyThickStick@reddit
Sorry but your comment is such a dumb take. Your first question simply because there are more country’s on earth than Israel? It’s that simple.
JCPOA has been a deal between
To your article: your article states there were Talks between Israel and a UN Agency who wanted to deescelate. HOW THE FUCK is that the proof that the IAEA gave classified information to Israel?
With that logic Qatar, Germany, Russia, litteraly nearly every nation and millions of entities on earth also gave classified information to Israel
redelastic@reddit
I don't think it's a dumb take at all.
Why is Israel allowed have nuclear weapons as a deterrent but Iran is not?
Why is Israel allowed to have weapons and not abide by the international agreements around this?
The US tore up its agreement with Iran, which had been carefully negotiated.
Yet you seem to think Israel and the US - who launched an illegal attack on Iran - are somehow the good guys. This is laughable.
StickyThickStick@reddit
Did you notice something? I showed you your logic is completely irrational and you just start with 3 paragraphs of whataboutism?
redelastic@reddit
Israel has nuclear weapons, does not allow inspections and faces no punishment.
Iran does not have nuclear weapons, allows inspections and is bombed illegally by the US and Israel, killing hundreds of civilians,
This is pointing out a glaring double standard - it is not a whataboutism.
You won't answer any of the questions about Israel's nuclear weapons - I wonder why?
StickyThickStick@reddit
The topic wasn’t about Israel’s nuclear weapons the topic here was that IAEA was accused of transferring classified information for the attack to Israel. Stop changing subject when you realise you can’t support these claims. You’re just desperate
redelastic@reddit
Ah, I see. This topic is totally unconnected to Israel and the US illegally attacking Iran.
You won't answer any question about Israel's nuclear weapons.
Lol every accusation is a confession with you stooges.
StickyThickStick@reddit
What don’t you understand that i asked for a source to a claim which hasn’t been delivered yet. You can talk about all the topics you want that doesn’t answer my question and doenst prove the claim that has been made
redelastic@reddit
Something something Israel's nuclear weapons.
redelastic@reddit
I'm not surprised Western media doesn't report on the activities of their own intelligence services.
StickyThickStick@reddit
Let’s break down your logic here: I asked for proof of your claims -> You couldn’t bring up a single proof of your claim -> Say something I never said that I should have said.
First of all it’s your job to prove your claim not mine to debunk it that is not how a debate works.
Second of all between having interest in information and having infiltrated an organisation are miles. This is not a proof.
When you wanna prove your claim from a media that is debunked to constantly pushes false anti western news there is no point to keep the debate running. This news agency said - The Assad Regime never used chemical weapons(Which is broadly debunked) - The Mariupol Theater was bombed by the west as a false flag - Uyghurs aren’t supressed in China
It even has deep ties to the Russian news agency Sputnik and THE IRANIAN GOVERMENT here the source to it https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/06/02/grayzone-russia-iran-support/
redelastic@reddit
I'm not really having a debate with you. I think it's amusing that some will uncritically lap up Western media stories verbatim from outlets that have consistently misreported on Gaza and other issues.
The US and Israel has lied throughout this.
If you are not willing to consider any alternative to the Western imperialist narrative, then you're probably the perfect consumer of Western media.
You link to a newspaper owned by a US billionaire who supports Trump and has directly had a hand in shaping that outlet's editorial stance in its Opinions section.
If you think the story around the IAEA report and following illegal attack adds up, then the best of luck with that.
dontneedaknow@reddit
These people are posting opinion pieces as if they are news articles and running wild.
Civsi@reddit
Well, they did it in Iraq with UNSCOM.
StickyThickStick@reddit
That doesn’t mean it’s been done now
dontneedaknow@reddit
That was part of the UN resolution agreements.
lol
SirStupidity@reddit
Yes because clearly Israel can't seem to gather intelligence on Iranian targets, it has the be the IAEA, I bet they also gave them the Iranian chief of staff's coordinates. And the second one as well.
dontneedaknow@reddit
That would still be gathering intelligence...
SirStupidity@reddit
I can't see how the IAEA could know where Iran keeps their chiefs of staff. So when you ask me to believe, without any proof, that the IAEA is passing information to Israel. But I also see how Israel is able to gather information on things the IAEA shouldn't know, I seem to take your ask of believing not so seriously
dontneedaknow@reddit
I don't know the written treaties and specifics.
but the intention behind the NPT was to have open access and public disclosure.
so because Iran signed the open declaration to not seek nuclear warheads, they also agreed to keep any civilian pursuits in nuclear energy basically public record if there was one "globally."
but it's the same registry of nuclear scientists you can find easily with a little work on the Internet and through whatever access to digital records can be gotten these days.
Israel probably wouldn't have even needed the IAEA to get the information, (I don't know any specifics and Israel hasn't said as much of course so I trust none of it.)
I don't keep interested in current events for the emotional highs and lows, it's to paint a better picture of the human story kinda.
and also self preservation...
SirStupidity@reddit
I am saying that the notion that the IAEA was giving Israel secret intelligence is unproven and unlikely and it's just an attempt by the original commenter to invent shit. I think you are saying the same.
dontneedaknow@reddit
yea that's a really basic avenue and I would imagine espionage is expected at the UN. So whether Israel acquired info through espionage or social engineering or hacking or whatever it's all still espionage and I would think already anticipated by others as well because they got their own ops working there.
the fact that the US gave Iran a heads up hours beforehand, and Iran returned the favor with several hours heads up and only struck a single airbase in Qatar that was already evacuated due to ongoing hostilities.
infrastructure isn't a worry in the immediate to lose even for the war planners.
and I'm sure the Israeli regime is absolutely pissed about it because even if they have blackmail on trump about Epstein, AI makes anything unbelievable and nothing trustworthy anymore.
might be why the US business elite are killing the Internet and supporting dictatorship because there's a dirty secret they all need to obfuscate. (maybe they are reptilians lol)
squishles@reddit
why are "nuclear scientist" even a target. all iran needs to join the "don't fuck around or we'll nuke you" club is a couple dirty bombs and maybe an icbm delivery mechanism. Which is all 80 year old tech you can google how to do that. The centrifuge for enrichment is an engineering problem.
The only reason to bring in anyone with even a phd is if you actually want nuclear power plants.
Grotzbully@reddit
You do need people who know how centrifuges work and to operate them. Testing the enriched uranium, isn't a job you hand over to a intern. Neither do you trust your cousin with no education to assemble the actual bomb.
squishles@reddit
designing's more the trick than operating them, centrifuge is also a bit of a simplification, they used a kind of sieve to separate the isotopes the centrifuge part's more to get the force to send it through and I imagine that's legitimately a hard trick. And they don't exactly sell that on amazon, probably nothing to a nation state.
As for telling if you've got it, a highschool chemistry teacher can do that part, just checking purity and isotope composition.
dontneedaknow@reddit
the centrifuges spin at way over the speed of sound.
Which is the vector Stuxnet attacked.
squishles@reddit
lot of em do, a cd player is just under that at 500x (circumference*rpm/60=edge speed) the sieve part's hard the centrifuge part cheap and common.
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Believing the IAEA could protect the identities of scientists is stupid to begin with.
It's an international organization. What did any part of your brain expect?
beefprime@reddit
I'd expect any organization put in place to monitor anyone or anything would not flagrantly pass information on what they are monitoring to the geopolitical enemies of the people they are monitoring, the absolute bare minimum of discretion they would need to not completely shit on every relationship they require to do the basic function they exist to perform.
I don't expect them to somehow magically scrub clean Israel's knowledge of Iranian nuclear assets, but I also would expect them to not actively funnel information to Israel either.
dontneedaknow@reddit
You expected a lot of wrong.
Any nation with the necessity and wherewithall conducts espionage through the UN.
It would be reckless not to.
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Ah yes, every country is law abiding.
Intrepid-Debate5395@reddit
If you believe this then what was the point of the organisation?
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Why the fuck are you questioning that, it is exactlt what is supposed to be
People simply took advantage of the organization.
Intrepid-Debate5395@reddit
First of all, spelling.
Second of all I literally don't know that you think the "point" Is
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
The point is that, being the international organization it it.
It's common to discover leaks or people who work forbanother to discover classified information
Not that the dinner date some scientific was going to attend to was anything classified to begin with.
Intrepid-Debate5395@reddit
If you know it's going to leak why allow it. Whole point is their shouldn't be any leaks, and a whole host of steps to prevent it.
There isn't.
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Like I said, those only work for law abiding citizens
beefprime@reddit
How are you going to determine whether they are "law-abiding" or not when your monitoring agency has completely delegitimized themselves and been kicked out of the monitored nation by taking the information they gather during their monitoring and passing them to a nation that used the information to murder and sabotage the monitored program while ALSO releasing a FUD report on a specifically requested date to politically manipulate public opinion and excuse an illegal preemptive strike on a nuclear program that even the US and the IAEA consider non-weaponized?
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Hold on,
qjxj@reddit
Iran's still deeply compromised with Israeli agents, the fact they have no air defence leaves them vulnerable to subsequent attacks.
YuhaYea@reddit
Unsurprising, I don't think everyone who's given it any thought knows Iran is actually going to build the bomb now.
They thought that the threat of being able to build one in short order would be enough to ensure their security, Israel proved them wrong and whether you think it was justified or not, Netanyahu couldn't rope Trump into ground action and has now blown his Chance.
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Iran was going to build that thing when it shifted to Russia long ago.
This simply accelerated the process.
Intrepid-Debate5395@reddit
Then why wasn't it built ages ago? Specifically at a time russia and north korea were way more able to provide resources to help build it?
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Because Iran started from nothing but rapidly achieved enriched uraniams
Intrepid-Debate5395@reddit
They achieved enrichment literally decades ago at this point 2 known decades and probably one more before that.
How is that a rebuttal? If anything this just proves they weren't doing it
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Weren't? Dear, it seems no one will question why Iran has enriched uraniaum that isn't meant for nuclear power.
Have we gone senile or retarded because "Israel bad"?
ExtremeAcceptable289@reddit
There are applications of HEU aside from nukes
Intrepid-Debate5395@reddit
This is going to go in a circle at this rate, doesn't matter why it enriched uranium, what matters is why they didn't enrich it to nuclear levels when they had literal decades to do so.
It's not retarded to say maybe the guy that hasn't done something even though he has every capability to do it and has had such capability for decades probably won't do it.
It's retarded to attack that guy and give him a reason to do it now with nothing to lose.
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
It is already on nuclear weaponry levels.
Intrepid-Debate5395@reddit
"It is already on nuclear weaponry levels"
It isn't, something the US government (bar trump) has stated even while america was dropping bombs on them.
"And I'll be honest, I wouldn't sit by idly if I knew my enemy was gonna establish itself a regional power."
So you're stating you fundamentally disagree with the UN charter which sees preemptive assault as illegal?
Bloody hell the moral gymnastics you must have to go through everyday
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Nah, rather it's simple
It's you folks on a mental gymnastic session with your bureaucracy
I see a threat, I must deal with it.
YuhaYea@reddit
I seriously fail to understand where you're getting lost, so i'll break it down for you.
Iran has had the capability to enrich uranium to nuclear weapons levels for some decades. They enriched uranium up to 60% (after someone orange tore up the agreement that made it in their best interest to not do that).
They enrich uranium above nuclear energy levels because it decreases the amount of time required for them to build a nuke if and when they choose to. Under the JCPOA their breakout time was about 6 months. After the JCPOA they reduced it to about 1 month.
60% Uranium is high enough for them to be able to assemble a bomb within a month, maybe 2 at a stretch. They have had a stockpile of 60% enriched uranium since at least 2021 that we know of.
Now here's the question. If they had been dead set on building a bomb, then why haven't they, given they have been within a few weeks of building one for almost 4 years at this point.
Now refer back to the top of the comment chain.
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
You focus on the bomb, I speak of weapons-grade uranium.
YuhaYea@reddit
I seriously don't understand what your point even is.
I directly answered this question, where are you getting confused?
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
And of course, that's called weapons-grade uranium
YuhaYea@reddit
Jesse what the fuck are you on about.
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Someone's fucking holding a knife and saying this relationship is over!
There, oversimplified. Do you get it now!
YuhaYea@reddit
No, i don't. Iran has the parts to make the knife, and a sharpener to make it usable. But they haven't put the knife together, or sharpened the blade for 30 years.
Of course that's ignoring that no matter which way you slice this analogy, Israel still went through their neighbors yard to stab Iran with their own knife.
I wonder, would you be ok with a country like say... China, launching a pre-emptive strike on all nuclear and military installations in Japan? Japan of course has highly enriched uranium, and the countries are at odds, so they would be justified no?
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Never said Israel was anything good. They're a huge part of this mess.
And if things already reached such levels with China, it only meant things have failed.
photochadsupremacist@reddit
In another comment, you claimed they inherited a nuclear program from the Shah. Inconsistency is the name of the game.
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Which?
photochadsupremacist@reddit
Iran also developed a nuclear energy program.
They signed a deal where they only enriched up to 3.5% which is around the required enrichment % for a civilian nuclear program. Then Trump unilaterally ended the deal and imposed sanctions. They tried negotiating again but the US refused, so Iran enriched a bit more. Then Israel and the US kept attacking Iran so Iran responded by enriching a bit more.
At every step of the way, Iran tried negotiating and the US and Israel kept attacking.
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
In the same sentence, Iran had continuously meddled in proxy conflict
Trying everything to thwart US influence and Israel's expansion at the cost of stability of multiple nations, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, and Palestine.
In response to given sanctions, Iran also escalated further by enriching to 60% purity
At every step of the way, the true definition is that diplomacy was venomous by both and was only a matter of time for another escalation.
photochadsupremacist@reddit
Who the fuck are the US to try to police a country's ability to defend itself?
Iran has every fucking right to build a ballistic missile program.
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Yes, Iran has every right like any other.
But to use that to threaten others is asking for problems you never had.
photochadsupremacist@reddit
No, Iran's mistake is that it's fighting Western imperialism and the Western world wants to exploit and continuously destroy the Middle East for their own gains.
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Western imperialism?
Man, the least Westerners want is to manage countries in the Middle East, and you say imperialism.
At best, they would present their greedy ambitions to host countriea that didn't know and approved.
TFBuffalo_OW@reddit
They've been able to build the bomb for decades now. They clearly had no intention until now.
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
They couldn't, not without alarming the cautious countries.
Especially Israel. Only now have things been exposed on Iran's production of enriched uraniam that is already more than standard for nuclear energy.
Cold-Statistician-80@reddit
They've had enriched uranium for ages. Why is everyone focusing on this all of a sudden now? Its like the propaganda is getting to people's heads
thegodfather0504@reddit
Iran made the mistake of trusting USA. They could have made it long ago.
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Iran made the mistake of continuing the nuclear program made by the Shah(previous leader, ousted by Ayatollah), which were allies with the US and provided by the US.
Had they not taken advantage of that and instead worked on their own from syatt, the US wouldn't have made it their business to meddle.
photochadsupremacist@reddit
Lmao
Do you actually believe this?
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Wouldn't be having an Iran-US drama without it.
photochadsupremacist@reddit
So they installed a dictator, then he was overthrown by the people, and the US is mad about that.
But hey, Iran are the problem here obviously.
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Of course, Iran is a problem. Would you feel happy someone waving around their nuclear dildo?
The US and Iran can fuck off with their issue, but the regional conflict can harsly be ignored.
photochadsupremacist@reddit
Why are you happy with Israel doing so?
Rules for thee but not for me?
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
I think it's only you that think that way
photochadsupremacist@reddit
It doesn't have to use its nukes for negotiation. It's always implied.
And the funniest shit is that Israel stole nuclear materials from its greatest ally to build the weapons.
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Yeah, the things Israel does against its own ally gets overlooked often.
That remains to be seen, as of now. Iran has produced enough and shown enough to be a significant threat.
Preyy@reddit
Can't say I agree. The US just fabricates reasons to unlawfully invade countries, as they just did, again. This is just blame shifting to Iran for being "pre-emptively" bombed by the world police again.
I think it would be more accurate to say that Iran continued the -Iranian- nuclear energy program. That the US was involved when supporting a friendly dictator has simply not been necessary to use as a justification. The US doesn't even have to present a rules-based excuse at this stage.
PS: I don't support any of these goons.
Mando177@reddit
Call it reparations for installing the Shah as a brutal and oppressive dictator to begin with
VintageGriffin@reddit
They had oversight and the idea of what Iran was doing.
They didn't like that.
Now they will have no idea of what Iran is doing.
Kind of like how it went with sanctioning Russia out of SWIFT. Being part of it allowed all of Russia's monetary flows to be monitored and that information used to build a pretty good idea about their state of the economy. Now they have no idea.
b_lurker@reddit
Shock and awe
Russia’s decoupling of the SWIFT system and the sanctions that accompanied it would’ve had its greatest and intended effect (Russia capitulating to the efforts and stopping the invasion of Ukraine) only if the impact was sufficient in a short time frame. The current situation is that the sanctions are being used as a siege tool, to the largest nation on earth that sits all across Eurasia and that borders plenty on non-hostile actors willing to bankroll it for whatever benefits Russia can provide. These are contraband supply lines like the Chinese trade or the Indian oil purchases that render the NATO efforts as something that Russia will slowly grow out of. Ironically, the Europeans who were still dependent on gas imports despite the war prior to the bombing of nordstream 2 were also helping Russia survive long enough for its economy to not be wholly reliant on the west to survive.
This is the same for Iran but on a strategic level. The old Iran that was beholden to UN inspectors and a managed nuclear program was unshackled and yet not put down as Israel unilaterally attacked it and showed not just to Iran but to the whole world, that when it comes to it, might makes right.
No more IAEA and yet no regime change. Only tit for tat bombings for 2 weeks and an Iran that will no doubt rush to get the Bomb. You’d think the Israelis are fools but then again, this would be perfect for a kleptocrat/warmonger facing justice that’s looking for anything to stay out of a cell.
WannaAskQuestions@reddit
Indeed a blessing a disguise
Shiroi_Kage@reddit
Yeah, well, why not? Now can we send them to Israel please? The idea that Iran should have had so many inspectors (the vast majority of the inspectors employed by the agency) while Israel has ZERO is crazy. Iran hasn't nuclear weapons, while Israel does.
Level_Hour6480@reddit
It's hilarious how counterproductive attacking them has proven to be. It seems like they genuinely didn't want the heat that comes with developing a nuclear weapon, but since they have gotten said heat from Israel and the US (both nuclear-armed) they see no reason not to go for one. Good job Israel/US.
Bear in mind that North Korea can develop a nuke. Iran is far more competent than NK.
EH1987@reddit
When the US threatens you not to develop nukes it seems the wisest option is to develop nukes as quickly as humanly possible. Just compare Iraq and Libya to North Korea.
dova_kinn@reddit
one thing this war in middle east has shown us all, international laws are only for the brown men or the ones who the right kind of brown (read that as, with us) , Israel has not signed NPT , does not allow IAEA inspections, has broken nearly every war crime rule, has not adhered god knows how many UN resolutions , has invaded other countries countless times and killed civilians there , and still cites the same rules for other countries and uses them as a excuse it illegally bomb them !! i mean there should be a limit to hypocrisy but here we are !
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