Stellantis and Nissan Should Merge
Posted by Fearless_Neat_6654@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 54 comments
It’s no secret that both Nissan and Stellantis are really struggling right now. While I know it’s highly unlikely for too many reasons, I think a good solution for both companies would be a merger. Realistically, no other major brand would seriously entertain the idea of merging with either of them, given their current financial situations and lineups. However, I do think both these brands complement each other quite well.
Let’s start with what Nissan could gain:
- A next-gen Titan based on the Ram 1500. This would give Nissan a competitive truck with very little investment on their end.
- Infiniti could be revitalized with new Giorgio-based Q50, QX50, and QX60 models. These would be proper successors to the great-driving Infinitis of the past. Also, with Nissan powertrains (they wouldn’t use their CVTs here), they’d likely be far more reliable than the Alfa Romeo models.
- The MC20 platform could be used as a starting point for the R36 GTR, which, realistically, Nissan hasn’t put any real effort into developing thus far.
- Mitsubishi could get a new Pajero based on the Jeep Grand Cherokee L.
Stellantis could gain:
- Chrysler (or Dodge, depending on which survives) could get decent compact and mid-sized SUVs based on the Rogue and Pathfinder, which would massively boost their sales. If they used the PHEV system from the Hornet in these, they’d have products that could rival Toyota’s and Hyundai's hybrids.
- Ram could also take the Nissan Frontier, update it with the rugged good looks of the Ram pickups, and drop the Hurricane engine in it. This would finally give them a mid-sized truck (something Ram has been promising for years but hasn’t delivered). Additionally, with the Hurricane engine, it'd be a proper Ranger Raptor and Tacoma TRD Pro rival. I feel like this hypothetical truck would print money for the company.
- Dodge could get a small sports car based on the 400Z and a small SUV based on the Kicks.
Both would get:
- More EV models in their lineups
- More hybrids
- Lower costs
- Greater global reach
- However, they'd need to deal with all the redundancies
Many sub-brands would probably have to be killed off, but the final product would likely be something far better than where either company is today, and at this rate, all their brands will end up dying off anyway, so 🤷♂️
HispaniaRacingTeam@reddit
Counterpoint: Stellantis has too many brands as it is
CaptainGo@reddit
Cries in Plymouth nostalgia
RespectCommon7019@reddit
Cool idea, and I love the thought of a Ram powered Titan or a Dodge 400Z. But honestly, merging two struggling companies sounds like more problems than solutions. Fun to imagine though!
Shad0wAVM@reddit
Why Stellantis? Nissan is part of the Renault Nissan Mitsubishi alliance. All of these brands should merge under the name Renault. The new Nissan cars like the new Micra and Leaf are simply restyled Renaults.
Ibotthis@reddit
Why should they inherit the Renault brand? Mitsubishi motors is substantially bigger and I’d argue Nissan and or Mitsubishi has more global brand value in high value markets.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
The partnership between Renault and Nissan is not like before anymore. Yes, they still share same platforms and models, but we expect that their partnership would end soon.
IIRC, Renault has had deal one of Chinese automakers, they've sold Chinese models in Europe.
dakman359@reddit
Sounds like you have really thought about this. Interesting take. Thanks for sharing.
DepthHour1669@reddit
Except the one big thing that makes this impossible.
Japanese government says no.
FMecha@reddit
Not if they can get tariff cuts in return.
chameleon_olive@reddit
Does Europe heavily tariff Japanese cars?
varezhka11@reddit
Hey, the Japanese government was willing to let Renault have a go at it, so why not Stellantis? All of Nissan's past defense related businesses were already transferred over to make that happen, so theoretically it will be a lot easier this time.
That said, I'm sure the Agnelli family and the Peugeot family would be wary of having anything to do with Nissan after watching the coup against Carlos Ghosn. Stellantis' internal politics are messy enough as-is.
SufficientTill3399@reddit
One of Stelllantis's biggest problems it that it's a massive brand soup that needs excessive micro targeting in order to not kill its brands (many of which are unprofitable anyway). If Nissan joins this brand soup while struggling, it will create even more problems for Stellantis. There's also the strategic alliance with Renault (a partial merger that isn't quite a merger) along with their joint partnership with Mitsubishi Motors. Will Renault also get a stake in Stellantis as a result of this? It will create more problems for Nissan, and especially Renault, than it solves.
ApprehensiveBarber16@reddit
i hope dodge/chrysler dies they deserve it at this point. the last time they made a good car or truck was during the Mercedes partnership(the chargers and 300cs during that time are pretty good). every since the went to fiat its just been downhill. i love dodge and Chrysler (old dodge) but their new stuff just aint it and i wouldn't buy it.
ToughSpirit5285@reddit
I would sell my Nissan and never buy another, Stella it’s makes crap vehicles and has for many years… I had a family friend die from one of their crap trucks crushing him from a faulty park break on a new ram about 20 years ago. His wife got a huge payout but he could have still been here if he hadn’t driven a dodge….
moocowsia@reddit
Do you think Nissan makes good products now?
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
Stellantis is better than Nissan in fact, they've health financial capacity and decent car techs. They just need to decrease some wastes and mismanagements, they just need to phase out some brands and models.
If you want to combine these worse automakers, I would say Nissan better to merger with Jaguar. Jag has had better strong reputation to compare Nissan its Infiniti brand, the brand just needs more models. Give up Infiniti and adopt Jag able to help Nissan staying luxury car market.
RiftHunter4@reddit
No lol. Nissan's only problem is their $50B debt. Any company who merges with them can fix that with money. Stellantis has better finances but all their issues come from their products: Jeep Renegade, EV Charger, Maserati Ghibli, Chrysler 200, etc. They have a strong reputation for building POS vehicles and maybe putting effort into 2 or 3 of them. You can't fix that with plain old cash. Thats a people problem.
moocowsia@reddit
This doesn't consider how they ended up in debt. Nissan has had a series of screw-ups going back several decades, and has been making ever cheapening cars for people with bad credit since at least the mid 90s.
What part of that puts them on good footing even if their debt goes away?
BTTWchungus@reddit
Stellantis is a joke lmao, their dealerships do NOT compare favorably to Nissan's
HalfFrozenSpeedos@reddit
God that would take them both out.... Jlr quality control.....
varezhka11@reddit
An alternative option. Stellantis absorb Mitsubishi Motors and leave Nissan to fend for itself. Why?
Drzhivago138@reddit
How would that work? Mitsubishi is doing fairly well internationally.
varezhka11@reddit
Not really. At least not since Daimler took the money making commercial truck business (Mitsubishi FUSO) and left behind the weaker passenger car business back in 2000s. Now they’re somewhat stable but shrinking year by year with US its biggest revenue and profit center. They’re nice and lean but also lacking the volume for longterm viability.
They closed most of their overseas factories except those in SE Asia, and stopped engineering new cars for Europe and most of the developed countries (except for PHEV). The company wants long term partners but also wary of Nissan after years of abuse by this parent company.
Patrollingthemojave0@reddit
Im pretty sure stellantis for all the current business faults is actually doing pretty well financially. Aren’t they in little to no debt, compared to Nissan which is struggling?
What would stellantis have to gain? Also ram does have a mid/smaller form factor pickup. It’s just not sold in the usa, just South America. The Ram rampage, which comes in a 4 cylinder gas and diesel.
Also the ram 700/1000 which are rebadged FIAT pickups.
Fearless_Neat_6654@reddit (OP)
Stellantis is doing awful financially, not as bad as Nissan, but terrible nonetheless. Their profits dropped 70% from 2023 to 2024. Popular models like the Ram 1500 and Jeep GC have been dropping in sales, the Pacifica is the worst-selling minivan in a segment Chrysler effectively made, and the new Charger is a flop. They've got plenty of issues...
peakdecline@reddit
Yes, sales and profits are down. They're still very profitable. Stellantis also has far, far, far less doubt than the typical automaker.
Nitrothacat@reddit
Not anymore they don’t. The old 5.7L HEMI V8 is going to save the company. It’s even got a cool new badge.
peakdecline@reddit
Stellantis is NOT in a dire financial situation. This is something people really, really seem to not grasp on this sub.
gluten_heimer@reddit
I don’t necessarily agree with this idea, but I gave you an upvote back since it’s good discussion.
I think the biggest issue here is brand image. I don’t know how much overlap there is between Nissan fans and Stellantis fans. There is of course the overlap between folks with poor credit who are notorious for buying Altimas and V6 Chargers but presumably both companies want to escape that.
TunakTun633@reddit
I can make a weak argument for this working. Stellantis is still figuring out their US business model, but in Europe their MO is selling the same little EVs under a German brand in Germany, an Italian brand in Italy, and a French brand in France. Would a Japanese brand help them extend their reach in Japan? Probably.
I don't think management would be on board with this. Remember how Nissan broke with Honda over the possibility that they'd have to discontinue their series hybrid tech, which was similar to Honda's? Nissan is a strong EV player, and so is Stellantis. Even if they'd never revolted against Renault's control, I don't think it would work out.
There's a lot of synchrony there, though. Nissan makes more reliable EVs; the new Stellantis platform clearly needs some fine-tuning. And Nissan hasn't made a good new platform in decades.
Minimum_Persimmon281@reddit
The best bet for Nissan to survive is to just convince Renault to absorb even more then they hsve in the past. They already have been working together and can continue to build on that relationship.
learner888@reddit
you view could make sense only if stellantis were still an american company and usa essentially the only market
Yes, it would be nice for chrysler to takeover nissan to address chrysler problems of quality, technology and lack of reputable brands (with all its problems, ppl still value the jap brand above the likes of jeep. And peugeot)
For nissan, they're just out of similar arrangement with renault, abusive and putting them in debt (that is the problem now)
But american division is now only a smaller half of stellantis, and both stellantis and nissan make&sell most of their cars outside usa
Look, your list of stellantis gains is exclusively focused on american brands.
FMecha@reddit
Stellantis problems right now is that they're overly focused on their Euro side.
learner888@reddit
A euro company focused on their euro side? who could have thought
furrynoy96@reddit
No they shouldn't
RexRaider@reddit
Help! I'm drowning! Please throw me that anchor!
FMecha@reddit
Something that I came up during this idea is a new Nissan Silvia... with a Dodge twin (the name I had in mind is Dodge Daytona IROC/SRT-4) that would be challenging the GR86/BRZ.
Other than that, a Stellantis-Nissan merger will also have some good effects for Stellantis access to the Asian market - both in Japan (remember, the NMKV kei car joint venture exists there) and Southeast Asia.
learner888@reddit
stellantis problems come from contradictions between french management and american part
nissan problems arguably come from past decision of abusive and unstable relationship with french renault instead some intra-japan merger
both stellantis and nissan problems come exactly because of contradictions of non-national ownerships, and now you suggest another one
better split stellantis back and do some national mergers
on the other hand, yeah, dump everything into stellantis, they're the dumpster ground for brands /s
mishap1@reddit
Aren't the chairman and the CEO both Italian from the Fiat side? Elkann is the great, great grandson of the founder of Fiat while Antonio Filosa has been at Fiat throughout his career.
Robert Peugeot is on the board but I'd say the Italians have been running the show for the last two decades at FCA/Stellantis.
learner888@reddit
tavares was essentially french
anyway, it is a common delusion to see them as an american company. Its europeans who dominate stellantis
itsamemarioscousin@reddit
I don't think there's enough advantage for Stellantis in any kind of deal.
A smaller pickup platform is something they could do with, granted.
They already have access to competitive smaller passenger car platforms through Peugeot (I had the new 2008 Hybrid as a rental in Ireland last week, it's a great little car).
The Z is already proving unpopular, so selling a rebadged version of it would be futile.
The last thing Stellantis needs at the moment is more in brands and internal competition - Nissan need rescuing, but Stellantis won't be the ones doing it.
Fearless_Neat_6654@reddit (OP)
While not as urgent as Nissan's situation, I think Stellantis is also in big trouble. The Charger EV has been a flop, profits are dropping, and their inventory is huge. I do think Stellantis could really use something like the Nissan Rogue and Pathfinder in the lineup, as they don't really have anything competitive in those extremely important segments. Sure, the 2008 is alright, but it's a class down from the Rogue
itsamemarioscousin@reddit
The 2008 was just an example of a Peugeot I've driven and been impressed by recently, the 5008 is a Rogue rival.
daCampa@reddit
Peugeots are really comfy, as they should as they have a tendency to leave you stranded halfway across the journey.
DocPhilMcGraw@reddit
The next Durango is due out by next year which is in the same category as the Pathfinder. Jeep is introducing a new Compass which will compete with the Rogue.
So they already will have their competitors without needing to merge with Nissan.
Not to mention that merging with Stellantis would almost surely run afoul of some kind of antitrust laws in certain countries. It was hard enough for PSA to merge with FCA.
SnikySquirrel@reddit
The new charger is a flop, but Dodge was always a small portion of sales anyway. The real money makers for the company are Ram and Jeep. Not to mention that European side of the company.
DepthHour1669@reddit
So SUVs and pickups. Except Jeep doesn’t really have a reliable compact SUV and Ram a midsize pickup.
Good thing Nissan has a great SUV (Rogue with a different transmission) and a reliable pickup (Frontier).
Patrollingthemojave0@reddit
They have midsize fiat pickups that are sold as rams in certain markets that they could make domestically if they really wanted too, along with the Brazilian ram rampage that they could also bring and make stateside. Thats if they really were hurting for the midsize pickup market buyers.
OnlyAbbreviations256@reddit
The power of CVT and Dodge combine!
StelioKontossidekick@reddit
I guess two big negatives COULD create a big positive....
CapsizeDnB@reddit
Double the garbage in half the time!
HalfFrozenSpeedos@reddit
Nissan and Renault were heavily merged for years on end and it hurt nissan badly especially in Europe, where Renault had a good focus nissan seemed to get bogged down and totally lose it's way.
1988rx7T2@reddit
PSA already tried to buy Nissan before they bought fiat Chrysler and informed Stellantis.
Tuxedo_Muffin@reddit
The point of global shared auto production is to reduce costs by basically making the same car everywhere and flavor it to the market.
Stellantis is already doing this, but to their detriment since they always choose the worst equipment from the grab bag.
Nissan already does this, but they have a huge PR problem to dig themselves out of.
The only way I could see this working is if they became the Carnival Cruises of the automotive world. Market their bread and butter as cheap, fun products that they don't have to put too much work into. Then keep their prestige brands in the background making consistent sales like Jeep, RAM, maybe Infinity.