Moral injury is a very real problem for doctors in this situation. The definition below is for a war zone, but what else can you call it when doctors just have to go against the hippocratic oath every hour of every day?
Yeah making the system unworkable is the point. In 4 years they'll have created a network of commercial express care facilities where anybody can take an online coarse and get a job as a practitioner writing scripts for patients and scripts to sell to buddies on the side to supplement the 17 dollars per hour income. The requirements will be loosened and the compensation cut to create a new parasitic network of corporations replacing the trained medical professionals with barely literate gpt prompt generators all so the corps can squeeze yet more pennies from the poorer and poorer population.
They’ll never loosen regulations on prescription writing. They want to keep the poor in pain and fear. They’ll die quicker if not kept comfortable and the billionaires will save a few more dollars in taxes. It’s already happening to thousands of people. The rest of your comment is spot on! 🌊
They derive more joy from the suffering of others than any of their own sources of happiness.
A family member healing after a life changing surgery. A new baby being born after the parents finally can afford a home. A bright kid getting into college and being excited to study instead of having to turn down the admission offer because they can't afford tuition. The simple joy of a clear sunny day with clean air and beautiful nature around you.
None of those things bring even a fraction of the happiness that these MAGA douchebags get from the abject suffering of other people.
The worst thing about this is that people who take this turn (sadistic hatred, reactionary politics, fascism) almost never change back to the people they were. It takes a generational change. I think the majority of MAGA people will remain the angry, spiteful bastards they are now, and vote that way, for the rest of their lives.
These people are broken and they can't be fixed. People spend their whole lives trying to de-program from cults with years of dedicated therapy and specialist work.
These people will just get worse and worse and lash out violently as their representatives continue to cut the net from under their feet.
Yes. Once the human mind has consumed the lies and hatred and then built an identity around those things, it's unlikely it will change during the rest of the lifetime. But I would love it if someone had evidence to the contrary.
Oh yeah, I appreciate that you shared this. Maybe it is that the violence and hatred is truly against natural human tendency, and is only brought out via continuous brainwashing. In this case through the media.
It's interesting to zoom out though, and consider misogyny, homophobia, and racism. These things were and are internalized by the greater society so much so that they are cultural "norms". (Cultural brainwashing, from infancy.)
Quick example: a parent being disappointed that they are having a daughter, because a son would be so much better for random misogynistic reason.
A minority of people can get past it, but it's usually through some kind of cult-deprogramming process.
And I've met people who left cults, and... they're still fucking weird. You can convince people their previous ideology was wrong, in a few rare cases. But the underlying habits of mind are extremely difficult to erase.
Yeah makes sense. I mean, it's really just neuroplasticity at work. You'd have to rewrite all the pathways, and after something as damaging as being in a cult you'd want properly trained people guiding a person out. And how often do you come across something like that? Like you said: a cult deprogramming process.
But I'd bet that you can't force a person into that kind of growth and change. It has to be done willingly. Which is also why they don't allow you to force someone into rehab, and the person has to willingly admit themselves.
Technically it's not impossible to literally change your mind, but it's only going to happen if you want to change. And the MAGA don't want to change. Inside their belief system, they are superior to everyone else. And this makes them feel good, feel safe.
This is why there were still Nazi supporters in Germany for decades after the Holocaust and the war. Once someone "downloads" a toxic belief system, everything they experience will somehow be sifted to align with that system. It's unlikely that there will be something that magically snaps them out of it.
Then, they pass that toxic belief system onto others. Like a pathogen. That's why there's the modern Nazi party.
If they don't want to change, they won't change.
I hate to be this person but that's why in the end, there was only one way to handle the Nazis.
The attempts to route out nazism in Germany after the war completely failed. They managed to try and convict some of the top people but there were so many every day nazi's and they had no practical way to deprogram them. Psychologists tried a variety of things and ultimately came to the conclusion it couldn't be done. Everyone was just trying to get over the war and get it done with so they ultimately just stopped trying and left them in place, and they have created generations of Nazi's since.
West Germany at least made it part of the education system to condemn Nazism and emphasize its crimes, and that has yielded results with the following generations. But in East Germany they just replaced one authoritarian ideology with another. Neo-Nazi parties like the AfD still do better in former East Germany.
They derive no joy from it, it's about misery. *they* are suffering, so others must be made to suffer more. The fact that it just gets worse will inspire more anger, not less.
Yeah but they get to see immigrants get abducted by ICE and sent to a Guatemalan prison, and every little while a MAGA killer will shoot some Democrats. They'll be happier than pigs in shit.
Yeah, that's the deal. Fascists don't provide material benefits. They provide identify and sadistic pleasure.
In fact, if you look at Nazi and Fascist propaganda, they actually do the opposite. There's a future Promised Land included, but they first demand toil and sacrifice, which is actually very seductive. That's one reason the Democrats pitch of "you will see some modest economic gains" falls flat. It's not as psychologically compelling as the one-two punch of "MAGA" and "sacrifice now so you can humble and destroy people you hate".
The Dems occasionally get this right. Consider one of the great Democratic presidents, JFK, and his, "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."
I live in one of the states with the trigger laws that immediately cuts coverage once the federal funding is reduced. I'm a single childless male with numerous health issues, I can't work because of chronic fatigue (living off my dwindling retirement savings), but I don't qualify for disability. I'm exactly the type of person trump and his followers want to kill off with this bill. I feel completely fucked by my fellow Americans that voted for this.
I feel like they do that with lots of things, stats too without fully understanding them, thinking it’s a gotcha moment. But it’s really just a “no shit” moment, coupled with others staring at them in awe, disbelief and confusion. I don’t even know anymore, it’s like copium, or a lack of critical thinking. Both?
Almost all conservative places on reddit are downright totalitarian. There may have been conservatives speaking against that bill, but they all got banned for it
That sub is wild lately - it feels like the NPCs are receiving too many conflicting directives and the thin veneer of consistency it used to have is imploding.
They manage the messaging there. If you look at the top post about it Reddit says 300+ comments, but if you look at the comment page there are barely over 100 showing.
Of course they are, why wouldn't they be. There is literally zero chance that any of them actually cared about the stupid deficit. It is all a game to justify cuts of the social safety net. A big deficit and cuts, now that is a double win!
Even impoverished countries in the Global South still typically have some form of universal healthcare. It would have been cheaper for me to see a doctor for antibiotics as a traveler in Thailand than it would if I went to see my primary care doctor here.
They all realize it’s cheaper to just have taxpayer funded healthcare than to screw around with a private insurance system and end up spending even more taxpayer money to fix all the horrible problems it inevitably causes. The US government spends more on healthcare per capita than those supposedly “socialist” countries with public healthcare…
Trouble is those same private healthcare companies kick back so much to the government via lobbying that they hold an enormous amount of sway, so generations of people have been told by politicians that they do not, under any circumstances, want the commie woke nonsense that is universal healthcare and should be happy to pay 10x what anyone else does per capita for it, as that obviously means they're getting better care...
Some US states, like West Virginia and Mississippi, already have life expectancies on par with developing countries like Bangladesh.
I’m afraid that this bill will probably lower those numbers by a few more years to the level of some sub-Saharan African countries like Senegal or Eritrea.
And his "if you correct our population for race" even sounds a bit like he'd like to "correct" the population, rather than altering the statistical model.
If you go to a county level, there are some that already have a life expectancy below 70. I’m sure the coming Medicaid and Medicare cuts will further devastate those places.
The system will change. And likely for the better. In some ways.
Any physician worth his money will tell you that insurance is a waste of time and energy, trying to memorize all the details of which insurance gets billed which way, and which patients get which services based on their insurance, etc.
I think a lot of the novelty/fussy medical procedures will fall off, and basic healthcare will grow. ("You have a bacterial infection, here's your script, next patient." vs "you're on the wait-list for your fibromyalgia and weird lump growth on your cheek that's been three for thirty years. If it's not actively killing you, you're gonna have to deal like everyone. Next.")
Everyone's so busy talking about how bad the BBB Bill is, and I agree. It should be hated and raged against. Just like our entire government/political apparatus needs. Oh well.
What I think intelligent and caring people should do is start publishing new healthcare approaches that aren't based on income and ins corporations gouging everyone and their politicians.
I think the BBB will finally terminate whatever this monstrosity of a nation has been for the past 50+ years.
Sorry…this bill is going to make PLENTY of ashes out of beauty, in the form of people dying as a result of the “BBB”. People who lose corporate insurance won’t be able to rely on the ACA for subsidies, The work requirements, for disabled people, filling out tons of paperwork, often. Some of these people can’t even write a check or remember their pill schedule. Yes, since Reagan, the GOP has been gaslighting and chipping away services to give more tax breaks to the wealthy. Yes, they’ve been playing the long game but the tRUMP admin? This is healthcare suicide. 🌊
The American public, through its decades of apathetic voting, apathetic education, apathetic politics, and apathetic civic engagement, has passively permitted each step to occur, one after the other, until we arrive at today.
Financial ruin is before us, let alone healthcare ruin. National, societal ruin.
And no matter how horrible everyone knows this bill will make America, the "resistance" will be ineffectual at trying to get anything changed, like all the decades prior. The suffering will continue to get worse.
But yeah, bring on downvotes and hand wringing. Posts on the Collapse sub. Let everyone be mad that this event isn't the final event, but simply one more awful thing from a darkly turning trend that has lasted for generations.
You're being downvoted for a few reasons but not for the ones you apparently think you are? The first is just the tone of your first post which does come across as dismissive of the suffering, death and destruction this is going to inflict on countless communities. I dont really care about tone, so Ill move on from that.
The second and more important reason is that in your first post, you seem to say that this long term positive outcome - the something new / better that might arise from these ashes is an inevitable or even likely outcome to result from that suffering, death and destruction eventually. We could discuss that but since you dont offer any strategy or ideas, there's nothing to get into, hence the downvotes.
The third is in your next comment, and it's maybe more of a reason 2.5 than 3. And that's your diagnosis here of how you think we got here. If you think it's just apathy and the public allowing this to happen, then you dont have a good understanding of power nor of the society you live in, much less any knowledge of the long often violent history of struggle for something better (not to mention ongoing mass popular engagement in politics specifically and explicitly directed at healthcare) which makes your prognosis that a better alternative arising from the ashes (like magic?) even more naive and dismissive. There's a punitive tone to your understanding here, as if people get what they deserve and then after taking the lesson will finally do the right thing which is altogether ahistorical and nonstrategic.
Americans can always be trusted to do the right thing, once all other possibilities have been exhausted
-Winston Churchill [attr.]
This is collapse. There are no happy answers, in the full face of the Laws of Thermodynamics. Full human extinction in 500 years or less. I fully believe American society is about to be upended, obliterated, and right soon. Never to return.
"The history of mankind is an autobiography of a madman."
In this great extinction event we find ourselves amidst, may we find beauty in the swan songs of those who would sing, rather than whatever everyone's collectively panicking online.
Life has meaning that we each must forge for ourselves. And, life is meaningless. Surf reality in your bony meat sack how you want.
They are drowning in red tape and form filling not patient care. Patient care is why they entered medicine for many family doctors. There were much more lucrative fields, now it's just fields of forms and forms with fields.
Yeah..I just graduated from undergrad in May and was accepted into a school to start my masters for art therapy and counseling this fall to get a dual license.
But I’m afraid by 2027-28 when I graduate, I won’t be able to have a chance to work. I don’t live in a red state, but almost 300,000 people in my state will lose health care and probably even me too..
I was told that there is no amount of complexity that is too much, and that the modern systems really aren't that bad because they worked for some people and because the US has good success rates
I could not help these people see a barn in front of them
This post links to another subreddit. Users who are not already subscribed to that subreddit should not participate with comments and up/downvotes, or otherwise harass or interfere with their discussions (brigading)
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Redditlatley:
The Big Beautiful Bill threatens healthcare by slashing funding, limiting access, and undermining protections for patients with pre-existing conditions. 🌊
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1lrs91k/doctors_worried_about_the_big_murder_bill/n1d4grj/
The Big Beautiful Bill threatens healthcare by slashing funding, limiting access, and undermining protections for patients with pre-existing conditions. 🌊
spinningcolours@reddit
Moral injury is a very real problem for doctors in this situation. The definition below is for a war zone, but what else can you call it when doctors just have to go against the hippocratic oath every hour of every day?
https://www.ptsd.va.gov/professional/treat/cooccurring/moral_injury.asp
FieldsofBlue@reddit
Yeah making the system unworkable is the point. In 4 years they'll have created a network of commercial express care facilities where anybody can take an online coarse and get a job as a practitioner writing scripts for patients and scripts to sell to buddies on the side to supplement the 17 dollars per hour income. The requirements will be loosened and the compensation cut to create a new parasitic network of corporations replacing the trained medical professionals with barely literate gpt prompt generators all so the corps can squeeze yet more pennies from the poorer and poorer population.
Redditlatley@reddit (OP)
They’ll never loosen regulations on prescription writing. They want to keep the poor in pain and fear. They’ll die quicker if not kept comfortable and the billionaires will save a few more dollars in taxes. It’s already happening to thousands of people. The rest of your comment is spot on! 🌊
MarcusXL@reddit
The Trump voters suffering from this will be fine with it, because they'll see people they hate suffering more.
Carbonatite@reddit
They derive more joy from the suffering of others than any of their own sources of happiness.
A family member healing after a life changing surgery. A new baby being born after the parents finally can afford a home. A bright kid getting into college and being excited to study instead of having to turn down the admission offer because they can't afford tuition. The simple joy of a clear sunny day with clean air and beautiful nature around you.
None of those things bring even a fraction of the happiness that these MAGA douchebags get from the abject suffering of other people.
MarcusXL@reddit
The worst thing about this is that people who take this turn (sadistic hatred, reactionary politics, fascism) almost never change back to the people they were. It takes a generational change. I think the majority of MAGA people will remain the angry, spiteful bastards they are now, and vote that way, for the rest of their lives.
Jung_Wheats@reddit
It's truly cult behavior.
These people are broken and they can't be fixed. People spend their whole lives trying to de-program from cults with years of dedicated therapy and specialist work.
These people will just get worse and worse and lash out violently as their representatives continue to cut the net from under their feet.
UpbeatBarracuda@reddit
Yes. Once the human mind has consumed the lies and hatred and then built an identity around those things, it's unlikely it will change during the rest of the lifetime. But I would love it if someone had evidence to the contrary.
SimpleAsEndOf@reddit
The article on Shared Trump Psychosis in Scientific American magazine explains the delusions, paranoia and anger/violence.
But it also points to the corollary...
Namely, that if you stop all the right wing media lies, Big Lies, manufactured fear and discrimination, abuse superiority, exceptionalism etc etc.....
then people who were brainwashed have a chance to deradicalise themselves.
because Fascism needs a compliant media with repetitive lies, repetitive propaganda, repetitive fear mongering, repetitive anger/violence.
Some people can normalise because they realise they aren't under attack constantly.
It worked for most Nazi soldiers.
Here are some Nazis being shown footage of the Holocaust camps Some are crying as the realisation of Fascism hits them.
https://i.redd.it/j359kf69tx881.jpg
UpbeatBarracuda@reddit
Oh yeah, I appreciate that you shared this. Maybe it is that the violence and hatred is truly against natural human tendency, and is only brought out via continuous brainwashing. In this case through the media.
It's interesting to zoom out though, and consider misogyny, homophobia, and racism. These things were and are internalized by the greater society so much so that they are cultural "norms". (Cultural brainwashing, from infancy.)
Quick example: a parent being disappointed that they are having a daughter, because a son would be so much better for random misogynistic reason.
worldends420kyle@reddit
I mean in 99% cases of rural society a son is better than a daughter. Its not random misogyny.
UpbeatBarracuda@reddit
Bro the misogyny is the thing that makes people say "son is better". That's my point.
HommeMusical@reddit
For all you know, they're crying because the Nazis lost. "Look at that amazing slaughter we put on! And now it's over!"
MarcusXL@reddit
A minority of people can get past it, but it's usually through some kind of cult-deprogramming process.
And I've met people who left cults, and... they're still fucking weird. You can convince people their previous ideology was wrong, in a few rare cases. But the underlying habits of mind are extremely difficult to erase.
UpbeatBarracuda@reddit
Yeah makes sense. I mean, it's really just neuroplasticity at work. You'd have to rewrite all the pathways, and after something as damaging as being in a cult you'd want properly trained people guiding a person out. And how often do you come across something like that? Like you said: a cult deprogramming process.
But I'd bet that you can't force a person into that kind of growth and change. It has to be done willingly. Which is also why they don't allow you to force someone into rehab, and the person has to willingly admit themselves.
Technically it's not impossible to literally change your mind, but it's only going to happen if you want to change. And the MAGA don't want to change. Inside their belief system, they are superior to everyone else. And this makes them feel good, feel safe.
This is why there were still Nazi supporters in Germany for decades after the Holocaust and the war. Once someone "downloads" a toxic belief system, everything they experience will somehow be sifted to align with that system. It's unlikely that there will be something that magically snaps them out of it.
Then, they pass that toxic belief system onto others. Like a pathogen. That's why there's the modern Nazi party.
If they don't want to change, they won't change.
I hate to be this person but that's why in the end, there was only one way to handle the Nazis.
BrightCandle@reddit
The attempts to route out nazism in Germany after the war completely failed. They managed to try and convict some of the top people but there were so many every day nazi's and they had no practical way to deprogram them. Psychologists tried a variety of things and ultimately came to the conclusion it couldn't be done. Everyone was just trying to get over the war and get it done with so they ultimately just stopped trying and left them in place, and they have created generations of Nazi's since.
MarcusXL@reddit
West Germany at least made it part of the education system to condemn Nazism and emphasize its crimes, and that has yielded results with the following generations. But in East Germany they just replaced one authoritarian ideology with another. Neo-Nazi parties like the AfD still do better in former East Germany.
ImpressiveSoft8800@reddit
I never knew this. Do you have a source where I can read up on it?
Ree_on_ice@reddit
One MAGA said "They're not hurting the right people".
Like, how absolutely hateful do you have to be to think this? What do you call this except just "evil"?
Carbonatite@reddit
I cannot give them the benefit of the doubt any longer. If you still support this guy, you are not a good person.
MarcusXL@reddit
This was apparent 8 years ago.
96-62@reddit
They derive no joy from it, it's about misery. *they* are suffering, so others must be made to suffer more. The fact that it just gets worse will inspire more anger, not less.
Spunge14@reddit
Not that I disagree with the sentiment, but going by Trump voter demographics, they will be the ones suffering more.
MarcusXL@reddit
Yeah but they get to see immigrants get abducted by ICE and sent to a Guatemalan prison, and every little while a MAGA killer will shoot some Democrats. They'll be happier than pigs in shit.
Spunge14@reddit
Oh you mean broad scale - not from this bill specfically. Yea I agree with you.
MarcusXL@reddit
Yeah, that's the deal. Fascists don't provide material benefits. They provide identify and sadistic pleasure.
In fact, if you look at Nazi and Fascist propaganda, they actually do the opposite. There's a future Promised Land included, but they first demand toil and sacrifice, which is actually very seductive. That's one reason the Democrats pitch of "you will see some modest economic gains" falls flat. It's not as psychologically compelling as the one-two punch of "MAGA" and "sacrifice now so you can humble and destroy people you hate".
The Dems occasionally get this right. Consider one of the great Democratic presidents, JFK, and his, "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."
ImpressiveSoft8800@reddit
MAGA will cut off their nose to spite their face.
FUDintheNUD@reddit
Greatest country in the world, apparently
illfittingsunglasses@reddit
Just an FYI, the only people who have ever said this over the last 60 years are Americans.
cheerfulKing@reddit
This bill will reduce poverty and disablities so yeah its a great bill..... By reduce the poor and disabled though so maybe not so great afterall
magnetar_industries@reddit
I live in one of the states with the trigger laws that immediately cuts coverage once the federal funding is reduced. I'm a single childless male with numerous health issues, I can't work because of chronic fatigue (living off my dwindling retirement savings), but I don't qualify for disability. I'm exactly the type of person trump and his followers want to kill off with this bill. I feel completely fucked by my fellow Americans that voted for this.
Medical_Ad2125b@reddit
You’re right. Still, keep fighting for yourself.
magnetar_industries@reddit
Thanks! I intend to. And for all the 'others' that this bill will harm in myriad ways, including the horrors that ICE will be unleashing.
samuel_smith327@reddit
Meanwhile in r/conservative they’re championing the bill. There seems to be a disconnect. As In their brain is disconnected from their body
j_mantuf@reddit
The truth is that we are currently and simultaneously living in two different realities.
MAGA’s exist in a reality where everything going on is enthusiastically celebrated at best, and quietly accepted at worst.
It’s worth browsing the conservative sub just to see how different the mentality is, even if many of the comments are bots.
Interestingllc@reddit
"The climates always changing" NO SHIT!!! only difference is its 100+ times faster now and we are here too, not for long now but still.
Prestigious_Row9748@reddit
I feel like they do that with lots of things, stats too without fully understanding them, thinking it’s a gotcha moment. But it’s really just a “no shit” moment, coupled with others staring at them in awe, disbelief and confusion. I don’t even know anymore, it’s like copium, or a lack of critical thinking. Both?
Interestingllc@reddit
Life is all sunshine and rainbows as long as you ignore the slave next door and the meteorite headed your way.
Yebi@reddit
Almost all conservative places on reddit are downright totalitarian. There may have been conservatives speaking against that bill, but they all got banned for it
Kootenay4@reddit
That sub is wild lately - it feels like the NPCs are receiving too many conflicting directives and the thin veneer of consistency it used to have is imploding.
Americasycho@reddit
Tbh this place has turned into an antifa lapdog page lately.
c_a_turner@reddit
They manage the messaging there. If you look at the top post about it Reddit says 300+ comments, but if you look at the comment page there are barely over 100 showing.
voidsong@reddit
Tbf, the majority of that subs is bots and troll farms.
lovely_sombrero@reddit
Of course they are, why wouldn't they be. There is literally zero chance that any of them actually cared about the stupid deficit. It is all a game to justify cuts of the social safety net. A big deficit and cuts, now that is a double win!
DelcoPAMan@reddit
They love Putin, hate alliances, so more of the same from them.
calarathmini@reddit
People getting what they voted for, fuck'em, tell someone who cares. I'm enjoying the schadenfreude.
Medical_Ad2125b@reddit
Your health insurance rate will go up to cover the newly uninsured.
Someones_Dream_Guy@reddit
This is what happens when you don't have universal healthcare, unlike civilised countries.🤷🏻♂️
Carbonatite@reddit
Even impoverished countries in the Global South still typically have some form of universal healthcare. It would have been cheaper for me to see a doctor for antibiotics as a traveler in Thailand than it would if I went to see my primary care doctor here.
Kootenay4@reddit
They all realize it’s cheaper to just have taxpayer funded healthcare than to screw around with a private insurance system and end up spending even more taxpayer money to fix all the horrible problems it inevitably causes. The US government spends more on healthcare per capita than those supposedly “socialist” countries with public healthcare…
gargravarr2112@reddit
Trouble is those same private healthcare companies kick back so much to the government via lobbying that they hold an enormous amount of sway, so generations of people have been told by politicians that they do not, under any circumstances, want the commie woke nonsense that is universal healthcare and should be happy to pay 10x what anyone else does per capita for it, as that obviously means they're getting better care...
Violuthier@reddit
The Curtis Medical Center in Curtis, Nebraska has already made the decision to close.
mahartma@reddit
Smart to gtfo now, before rural caregivers are prohibited from closing shop.
trivetsandcolanders@reddit
Some US states, like West Virginia and Mississippi, already have life expectancies on par with developing countries like Bangladesh.
I’m afraid that this bill will probably lower those numbers by a few more years to the level of some sub-Saharan African countries like Senegal or Eritrea.
guru12321@reddit
Stop reporting the deaths and those numbers will fall in line.
ThirstyWolfSpider@reddit
Senator Bill Cassidy has already been ignoring and discounting deaths based on race.
And his "if you correct our population for race" even sounds a bit like he'd like to "correct" the population, rather than altering the statistical model.
Carbonatite@reddit
If you're a woman of color in some of those states, you might be better off giving birth in some developing countries than in America.
trivetsandcolanders@reddit
Yes, that’s sadly true.
If you go to a county level, there are some that already have a life expectancy below 70. I’m sure the coming Medicaid and Medicare cuts will further devastate those places.
https://www.newsweek.com/map-life-expectancy-north-korea-2069107
Mostest_Importantest@reddit
The system will change. And likely for the better. In some ways.
Any physician worth his money will tell you that insurance is a waste of time and energy, trying to memorize all the details of which insurance gets billed which way, and which patients get which services based on their insurance, etc.
I think a lot of the novelty/fussy medical procedures will fall off, and basic healthcare will grow. ("You have a bacterial infection, here's your script, next patient." vs "you're on the wait-list for your fibromyalgia and weird lump growth on your cheek that's been three for thirty years. If it's not actively killing you, you're gonna have to deal like everyone. Next.")
Everyone's so busy talking about how bad the BBB Bill is, and I agree. It should be hated and raged against. Just like our entire government/political apparatus needs. Oh well.
What I think intelligent and caring people should do is start publishing new healthcare approaches that aren't based on income and ins corporations gouging everyone and their politicians.
I think the BBB will finally terminate whatever this monstrosity of a nation has been for the past 50+ years.
May we create beauty from the ashes.
Redditlatley@reddit (OP)
Sorry…this bill is going to make PLENTY of ashes out of beauty, in the form of people dying as a result of the “BBB”. People who lose corporate insurance won’t be able to rely on the ACA for subsidies, The work requirements, for disabled people, filling out tons of paperwork, often. Some of these people can’t even write a check or remember their pill schedule. Yes, since Reagan, the GOP has been gaslighting and chipping away services to give more tax breaks to the wealthy. Yes, they’ve been playing the long game but the tRUMP admin? This is healthcare suicide. 🌊
Mostest_Importantest@reddit
Agreed on all points.
The American public, through its decades of apathetic voting, apathetic education, apathetic politics, and apathetic civic engagement, has passively permitted each step to occur, one after the other, until we arrive at today.
Financial ruin is before us, let alone healthcare ruin. National, societal ruin.
And no matter how horrible everyone knows this bill will make America, the "resistance" will be ineffectual at trying to get anything changed, like all the decades prior. The suffering will continue to get worse.
But yeah, bring on downvotes and hand wringing. Posts on the Collapse sub. Let everyone be mad that this event isn't the final event, but simply one more awful thing from a darkly turning trend that has lasted for generations.
May ashes come from ashes.
Turbulent_Pirate2473@reddit
You're being downvoted for a few reasons but not for the ones you apparently think you are? The first is just the tone of your first post which does come across as dismissive of the suffering, death and destruction this is going to inflict on countless communities. I dont really care about tone, so Ill move on from that.
The second and more important reason is that in your first post, you seem to say that this long term positive outcome - the something new / better that might arise from these ashes is an inevitable or even likely outcome to result from that suffering, death and destruction eventually. We could discuss that but since you dont offer any strategy or ideas, there's nothing to get into, hence the downvotes.
The third is in your next comment, and it's maybe more of a reason 2.5 than 3. And that's your diagnosis here of how you think we got here. If you think it's just apathy and the public allowing this to happen, then you dont have a good understanding of power nor of the society you live in, much less any knowledge of the long often violent history of struggle for something better (not to mention ongoing mass popular engagement in politics specifically and explicitly directed at healthcare) which makes your prognosis that a better alternative arising from the ashes (like magic?) even more naive and dismissive. There's a punitive tone to your understanding here, as if people get what they deserve and then after taking the lesson will finally do the right thing which is altogether ahistorical and nonstrategic.
Mostest_Importantest@reddit
-Winston Churchill [attr.]
This is collapse. There are no happy answers, in the full face of the Laws of Thermodynamics. Full human extinction in 500 years or less. I fully believe American society is about to be upended, obliterated, and right soon. Never to return.
"The history of mankind is an autobiography of a madman."
In this great extinction event we find ourselves amidst, may we find beauty in the swan songs of those who would sing, rather than whatever everyone's collectively panicking online.
Life has meaning that we each must forge for ourselves. And, life is meaningless. Surf reality in your bony meat sack how you want.
Otherwise-Product-60@reddit
Primary care was hanging on by a thread before this bill.
I am on my 4th family doctor in two years. I go to an inner city health clinic. They are all leaving for greener pastures.
Globalboy70@reddit
They are drowning in red tape and form filling not patient care. Patient care is why they entered medicine for many family doctors. There were much more lucrative fields, now it's just fields of forms and forms with fields.
manganatsu101@reddit
Yeah..I just graduated from undergrad in May and was accepted into a school to start my masters for art therapy and counseling this fall to get a dual license.
But I’m afraid by 2027-28 when I graduate, I won’t be able to have a chance to work. I don’t live in a red state, but almost 300,000 people in my state will lose health care and probably even me too..
vapemyashes@reddit
If I can purify and specify my hatred more maybe it will be able to explain my vote. Only way out is through.
siraliases@reddit
I was told that there is no amount of complexity that is too much, and that the modern systems really aren't that bad because they worked for some people and because the US has good success rates
I could not help these people see a barn in front of them
Fabreezy28@reddit
We are cooked as a country, leadership has prioritized the billionaire class over the general population.
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The Big Beautiful Bill threatens healthcare by slashing funding, limiting access, and undermining protections for patients with pre-existing conditions. 🌊
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Redditlatley@reddit (OP)
The Big Beautiful Bill threatens healthcare by slashing funding, limiting access, and undermining protections for patients with pre-existing conditions. 🌊
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