Told to Not Pursue IR?
Posted by mursilissilisrum@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 70 comments
I got in touch with the CFII I'd been flying with for the past couple of years to see whether he'd put me through some time under the hood, and he told me (with no qualifiers) that it wasn't a good idea on account of the fact that I'd probably just end up vomiting and that I should just stick to visual flight. Just kind of period, not "for now" or "for a while" or even due to any perceived skill/safety issue.
Is this guy basically telling me not to get an IR? I haven't really been able to keep a solid pace going for a while for a variety of reasons, but we had some pretty good flights back when I was able to hit things more consistently both under the hood and in actual. I also really enjoyed getting those skills under my belt.
Icy_Huckleberry_8049@reddit
find another instructor and go fly with them
Perfect_Insurance_26@reddit
Do you get motion sick in vfr? If you do, I know a guy trying to get his IR who had the same issue. After 30 minutes of flying with foggles, he felt sick. The disorientation under foggles doesn't compare to real imc. If you get queasy and vomit under vfr, I can't recommend flying under ifr whatsoever until you conquer air sickness.
Sufficient-Matter-42@reddit
PPL should really be considered as 50% of a rating. IR being the other half.
Calisuni@reddit
I’m working on it! Give me a break! /s 😅
Pilot-Imperialis@reddit
This. The longer I spend flying professionally and the longer I spend reading accident reports the more I believe the IR should be considered mandatory. Maybe not in the legal sense, but it should be heavy emphasized during training that a PPL is not really sufficient to keep most people safe.
andrewrbat@reddit
Every year cfit/loss of control due to loss of spatial orientation/visual reference is one of the top causes of death in general aviation.
Why-R-People-So-Dumb@reddit
I absolutely agree and it's important to note that a big portion of the IR training isn't just teaching those skills per se, my instructor taught me to stop flying the plane and get the plane to just do things for me (no autopilot, but precision trimming and power settings without having to mess around with it forever). The big thing for me was planning so you aren't surprised by most situations you will encounter. It's a bad day even with your IR to end up accidentally in IMC flying VFR, but with your IR you should be so far ahead that you aren't finding yourself in situations like that.
subarupilot@reddit
I tell anyone who wants to get their ratings to budget for completion of IR. The safety factor of understanding and being proficient at an instrument scan is worth it.
ReadyplayerParzival1@reddit
This- Private can be done in 10-15k depending on where you train. Instrument is only another 8. The safety margin it gives you far exceeds the cost investment.
BeginningTotal7378@reddit
Weird. Have you ever thrown up with this Instructor in flight or on ground?
Instrument rating is important. Just find another CFII.
mursilissilisrum@reddit (OP)
If it comes to that. To be honest I have a feeling he just thinks I'll get more out of building some solid VFR experience for the time being and I just took the way he phrased it a certain way.
cottoneyedjoe7@reddit
Have you experienced problems with air sickness during your past training?
tempskawt@reddit
"been flying with for the past couple of years"
You've been getting instruction for 2 years?
mursilissilisrum@reddit (OP)
I started doing IR a few years ago and life got in the way of me being able to keep a good pace up. It's less instruction than trying to make sure that things don't deteriorate through my down-times these days.
SeaManaenamah@reddit
I think there was a misunderstanding.
mursilissilisrum@reddit (OP)
I haven't ruled that out yet. He might have meant that I should do more VFR flights before hitting the IR stuff again, but I definitely got a vibe like he'd just lost faith. Who knows, we'll see.
aeternus-eternis@reddit
Given some of your replies in this thread, I'm starting to see where he got that vibe.
mursilissilisrum@reddit (OP)
I don't know, dude. Somebody asked me whether I had an issue throwing up on steep turns and then started accusing me of lying in order to karma-farm and play the victim when I said "no."
Sand0rf@reddit
I’m based in Europe and have got my PPL but I’m not getting my IR. Not because I don’t want to but because the window of usage for me is very slim. Due to my colourblindness I’ve got a restriction on my medical making it valid during UDP only (SR - 15 min until SS + 15 min) so I can not fly after dark. Apart from that; none of the aircraft of my flying club are FIKI so that rules out flying through clouds in most of autumn, winter and spring. I think that I can technically get the rating it’s just that it’s not worth the extra 20 grand for me, sadly
EliteEthos@reddit
Do you have a history of getting sick a lot?
rkba260@reddit
This. There's more to this scenario that OP is omitting. Motion sick during steep turns?
mursilissilisrum@reddit (OP)
Steep turns have been fine.
And it wasn't in your comment, but how is not doing instrument supposed to resolve any possible safety issues?
rkba260@reddit
Ok... so explain why does an instructor who've you been working with think this is a bad idea?!
There is context here that you are purposely omitting in an effort to justify your position. Then you come on to reddit with limited details, knowing full well the echo chamber here will validate your bullshit story, easy karma farm.
Start being honest with yourself and the people here.
mursilissilisrum@reddit (OP)
Beyond what he told me, how the fuck should I know?
I'm not sure what "context" you're fishing for here, but sure, you got me. I was looking for some reassurance that I should just move on with my life and train anyway instead of hanging it up because somebody I haven't had any issues with up until now might have told me that I'm too barfy to fly like a big boy.
rkba260@reddit
You have no idea huh? You never got sick in the plane? You passed your checkride without problem? Got a good score on the written? Never had issues with studying or retaining information?
Come on man, stop with the textbook defensive mechanisms... repression, denial, projection... its all here.
mursilissilisrum@reddit (OP)
What does my written score have to do with anything?
I'm not sure what your point is even supposed to be. That the CFII has the right to decide whether he wants to keep me on as a student? I don't think anybody is denying that.
rkba260@reddit
So now we're just being obtuse?
The point, is that you apparently are not a good student to work with, and the fact that you can't identify why is just another example of defensive mechanisms. You are doing something that is so exasperating, that an instructor is refusing to take your money. Let that sink in.
Also, the PPL written is about as easy as they get... if you struggled with that one (which based on your comment, sounds like you did), you're in for a ride.
Do some sincere reflection of your training, figure out what you need to work on, move forward. Stop playing the victim.
mursilissilisrum@reddit (OP)
God, I love Reddit.
rkba260@reddit
Good luck with your training, I sincerely hope you figure it out.
mursilissilisrum@reddit (OP)
To be honest it sounds more like you have some sort of a chip on your shoulder and want me to quit altogether. Maybe a student puked in your headset or something, I don't know. Somehow, viz a viz your wisdom, we got to this point from me saying that I don't have an issue with steep turns.
rkba260@reddit
To be honest, you sound dumb. I fly for a legacy, I dont give a damn if you continue or not, its literally no skin off my back. I hope you do continue, it's an amazing career, if you can mature and figure your shit out.
One day, if you get your CFI and do your FOIs... you'll see how naive you've been. I'm trying to help you realize that sooner, but we all learn at a different pace... some much slower than others.
autonym@reddit
What seems odd here is that apart from saying that steep turns have been fine, you have not directly answered the repeated question of what your history with air sickness has been, even though that's the obvious crux of the matter. Perhaps you're doing yourself a disservice, but you're giving the impression that you're deliberately evading the question.
EliteEthos@reddit
Right. The CFII that has been working with OP obviously thinks there are glaring issues that would preclude him from continuing training.
mursilissilisrum@reddit (OP)
How is not doing instrument but still flying anyway supposed to resolve any possible safety issues?
JSTootell@reddit
As a dude who has MASSIVE experience with motion sickness, I really want to hear WHY this CFII said this.
I'm sure I know the reasoning.
mursilissilisrum@reddit (OP)
Like I said in that whole other thread, you'd have to ask him whether that's the issue or there's something else.
EliteEthos@reddit
You still haven’t answered my initial question.
Why-R-People-So-Dumb@reddit
You keep ignoring the motion sickness question with a straight yes or no answer so I'll put this here for you to decide.
I had some pretty big motion sickness issues and there are ways to work through it. I have my CPL and instrument and rarely get sick but it was a huge concern when I started my IR. I'll elaborate if you think this is useful information but again you have not answered if you are actually getting motion sick or if the comment by the II is completely out of left field.
CaptMcMooney@reddit
find a new instructor, 100% get your IR.
even if you never fly in a cloud, it makes you a better pilot.
ATrainDerailReturns@reddit
Dudes tripping find a new instructor
Taterdots@reddit
People die because they don't get their IR. GET IT.
parking7@reddit
It sounds like he doesn't want to instruct you anymore or he doesn't want to do instrument instruction, for what ever reasons. Sounds like a great opportunity for you to find a new instructor.
hondaridr58@reddit
Agreed.
Disastrous_Rub_6062@reddit
WTF is wrong with CFIs these days? Go find an actual professional to help you get your IR
gromm93@reddit
I love how people point to the behaviour of one individual and then act like the whole damn world is falling apart, or all the people with that shade of skin are exactly the same as that person.
This guy is wrong. It's not because his hair is purple or his tattoos or because of his age. He's just wrong, because he's wrong. Maybe he's wrong because his instructor taught him so, and maybe his whole class is wrong in the same way, but I doubt that it's his whole damn generation.
Disastrous_Rub_6062@reddit
It's not a generational statement. I have no clue how old OP's CFI is. I was more responding to the posts I've seen lately about CFI's making blanket statements about someone's suitability for flying.
gromm93@reddit
Your instructor has it wrong.
While some people experience motion sickness worse than others, very few can't train it away.
Even better, if time under the hood is what causes you motion sickness, do that until the very moment you start to feel a little sick. Then take the hood off. Never push it, even a little. Easy as that.
Keep doing that until you aren't nauseous at all.
Another way to help this is by reading a book on a moving vehicle, and stopping when the nausea starts. That's another big inducer.
Of course, you'll need to keep up the practice.
PlanetMcFly@reddit
Find a new CFII and get your IR. It absolutely made me a better pilot, even when just flying VFR.
Uncut-Oven4048@reddit
Are you perusing a career in aviation? Are you just a weekend warrior? What’s the goal here?
It kinda sounds like he doesn’t want to be your CFI anymore.
ThatHellacopterGuy@reddit
If you don’t have a history of puking while under this person’s instruction, that’s an “I don’t want to deal with you anymore” response. Maybe it’s you, maybe it’s him… doesn’t really matter.
Take him up on his offer, and give your money to another CFII who is willing to work with you for your instrument rating.
Rolex_throwaway@reddit
Why does he think that? Do you get problematically airsick?
carl-swagan@reddit
Weird thing to say unless you have serious problems with airsickness. I consider the instrument rating essential to becoming a competent and safe pilot.
MunitionGuyMike@reddit
Sounds like you need a new instructor.
IR is one of the most important ratings to get imo
TheJohnRocker@reddit
It should really be a requirement that you get your instrument rating. Even if you plan to only fly in great weather. If you stay proficient and practice it could really save your life.
Pilot-Imperialis@reddit
That’s an exceptionally odd thing for a CFII to say to you if you’re already a PPL. If you’re still working on private, it makes more sense.
Assuming you’re already a private pilot I’d assume he doesn’t want to fly with you but doesn’t want to be a dick about it.
Worried-Ebb-1699@reddit
Your CFI sounds like a douche. Get someone else.
Fun fact- YOU determine if YOU should get an IR. Then it’s up to YOU to perform accordingly.
Your CFII merely guides you.
Environmental-Rub878@reddit
It sounds to me like the CFII is saying that they don't want to instruct you by using the excuse that you'll be sick. Reality is, you may get sick. You may not. But it isn't up to the instructor whether or not you fly. It's YOUR call.
So, it is either the above, or, the question I have since you've flown with them before and you mentioned he said you get sick. Do you actually get sick under the hood? Did you at least once? Not sure I see the instructors reasoning unless this happened.
Bottom line, find another CFII and move on. The instructor you mentioned is finding excuses for you. You want one that is supportive and will provide you the tools you need whether it takes 15 hours or 1500 hours.
DontPanicHangInThere@reddit
No IR No go far
CannonAFB_unofficial@reddit
It should be mandatory if you’re looking to enjoy a lifetime of flying (even if casual, and for fun).
You’ll learn a TON, be a much safer pilot, and have more confidence (plus the ability to back it up) if you knock out instrument.
Maplesyrup57@reddit
It doesn’t hurt to try and see, ultimately it’s your time and money and your prerogative to pursue what you’d like. Your CFI is a mentor and to give them the benefit of the doubt they may just be sharing an opinion on challenges you may face in advance to set expectations. That said, after a long career of flight instruction I’ve found that the challenges students face during PP training are rarely the same as instrument and vice versa, if you’re interested in expanding your skill set into instrument flying and you have the resources to give it a go, then you should.
Adventurous_Bus13@reddit
Get a new instructor
MeatServo1@reddit
That’s an oddly specific response. How many times did you get sick doing PPL?
ShootyLoots@reddit
Every pilot and instructor I have met while working on my PPL has encouraged moving on to IFR afterwards.
It just makes you a safer pilot.
If you actually had issues with motion sickness that would be one thing. If I was in your shoes I'd find a new CFII
NeutralArt12@reddit
I mean ppl has wayyyy more stomach discomfort than IFR. This guy is a super weird dude it sounds like
x4457@reddit
Weird response from your CFII. Fuck that, find someone else to teach you.
jdeck01@reddit
Agree.
Anthem00@reddit
Sounds like you have a motion sickness issue that is still present for vfr ?
Red-Truck-Steam@reddit
Pursue IFR training, you’ll learn more than you ever thought you could about flying. It will be hard, but very worth it. Your CFII seems like a jackass. He should be promoting safety and learning not convenience. If nausea is an issue, drink carbonated beverages and ginger candy/tea. It was how I got over air sickness when I began my PPL.
JustAnotherDude1990@reddit
Get your IR. Full stop.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
I got in touch with the CFII I'd been flying with for the past couple of years to see whether he'd put me through some time under the hood, and he told me (with no qualifiers) that it wasn't a good idea on account of the fact that I'd probably just end up vomiting and that I should just stick to visual flight. Just kind of period, not "for now" or "for a while" or even due to any perceived skill/safety issue.
Is this guy basically telling me not to get an IR? I haven't really been able to keep a solid pace going for a while for a variety of reasons, but we had some pretty good flights back when I was able to hit things more consistently both under the hood and in actual. I also really enjoyed getting those skills under my belt.
Please downvote this comment until it collapses.
Questions about this comment? Please see this wiki post before contacting the mods.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. If you have any questions, please contact the mods of this subreddit.