Why do so many in the country seem more passionate about wanting other people's lives to be worse than wanting everyone's (including their own) to be better?

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Necessary_Umpire_139@reddit

Easiest way to go up is if everyone else comes down.

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PurpleOctopus6789@reddit

crab in a bucket mentality.

Also, typically, those who are happy don't comment wanting others to be unhappy so you will experience a significant bias in responses.

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My family was never “poor” but when I was a kid clothes were from the market and charity shops etc. So as a teen I was very much eat the rich, Tax the top 50% to the max etc, now in my forties and very comfortable, I think well I worked hard for what I have and where I Al career wise, why should I be taxed more.

I do see the irony, and see it from both sides, though have no idea what my true feeling on it are, it’s easy when you don’t have much to say everyone else should share, and when you have a lot feel it’s unfair to be asked to share.

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Welshpoolfan@reddit

I think well I worked hard for what I have and where I am career wise, why should I be taxed more.

Because of all the support you had to get where you are career-wise that was based on the tax that others paid...

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Diligent-Way8231@reddit

It’s definitely a UK thing I had the complete opposite in America and they genuinely were supporting other people and wanting them to succeed.

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Flat_News_2000@reddit

This is more about people who are already succesful not liking seeing others get more assistance than them.

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PurpleOctopus6789@reddit

successful =/= happy, there's a significant difference

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YSOSEXI@reddit

I don't agree with your perspective. I'm 55, paid tax all my life, average income, etc. I have no issues with anybody receiving benefits, as long as they have paid into the system, we all need help at some point. Back to it, Why the fuck would I let a crab climb out of the bucket when all it will do is feed itself on tax payers money, whilst the taxpayers are still at the bottom of the bucket with scraps?

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Ricky_Martins_Vagina@reddit

as long as they have paid into the system

Do you not think the ones who need it most are the ones who are genuinely unable to pay into the system in the first place?

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YSOSEXI@reddit

I have no issues with any payments as long as they are genuine, if you are disabled then you should receive assistance, if ill, if impoverished then you should also receive assistance. The system does need an overhaul though. Triple lock receives much uproar, why doesn't benefit fraud also cause this reaction? Circa 8 billion in 2024.

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PNWHome95@reddit

Do you realize that millions of “foreigners” put into SS and Medicare? They cannot withdraw those benefits ever unless they become citizens and our immigration laws are broken, conveniently for the shit that is happening right now.

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pajamakitten@reddit

Do you realize that millions of “foreigners” put into SS and Medicare?

Why are they paying into an American scheme when they have immigrated to the UK?

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PurpleOctopus6789@reddit

note how your comment doesn't say a word that you are happy with your life. Interesting. Somehow proves my point.

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YSOSEXI@reddit

Eh?

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YSOSEXI@reddit

Yep, I've had a great life. I do find it hard to do so in the UK atm, things are changing fast, and not for the better.

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PurpleOctopus6789@reddit

sorry you're not doing great and I hope you'll have better time soon but you quite literally proved my original point.

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Eugenes_Axe@reddit

If you think you're poorer because of people on tax/social benefits, and not the absolute robbing of our country by the ruling class then I have a bridge to sell you.

Replace "foreigner" with "benefits receiver"

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fqtuqzy10r8g61.jpg

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YSOSEXI@reddit

Never said that, I have no issue with people who have paid in, take out. Read my comment. I am of the age that I have seen the unfortunate decline of the areas that were once pretty good.

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Eugenes_Axe@reddit

I've misunderstood this part then:

when all it will do is feed itself on tax payers money, whilst the taxpayers are still at the bottom of the bucket with scraps

I was taking from the "whilst the taxpayers are still at the bottom...with scraps" that you felt you didn't have enough/what you could (which I agree we don't)

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YSOSEXI@reddit

I'm not monetarily poorer, service poorer yes, that is what I was trying to convey (as we all are). Doctors, Dentists, NHS etc. My tax rates are the same (I pay Circa 6-8K per annum). The ones that suck it up, and have never paid into the system are the ones that are at the point of my argument. Are you willing to pay more for less? I am sick of social and service erosion? It's great to be aspirational, until realism bites your ass.

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Delduath@reddit

The erosion of social services is due to austerity, privatisation, and backhanders in the form of "consultants". It has been a deliberate political move by every party since 1979.

And as an aside, the WHOLE POINT of tax funded services is that not everyone has to pay in equal to what they use. It's a pooled resource to help everyone.

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GRANDOMAS@reddit

I’ve seen this play out so clearly when I got a council flat after years of unstable housing. I had a stable job, paid rent, and suddenly people I knew were weirdly cold about it. Like they’d rather no one have anything decent unless they earned it under exactly the same pain they went through

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pr8787@reddit

If you tell an Englishman “you can have anything you want, but your neighbour will get double” he’ll have a little think then ask you to poke one of his eyes out.

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MrDankky@reddit

Ok so I resent a few people I know who have had kids with my friends, used them to get a 2 bed council flat on the central line then broke up with fathers and get the kid taken off them. Yet they still get pip and free housing. I pay around £30k a year in tax and can’t afford the property they live in.

I have severe ADHD and a few other things which I could extort to claim pip but I think that’s a scumbag move. It makes life harder but I’m not disabled, I can work so I do.. if you can and don’t I will look down on you like scum.

That’s my opinion lol, not aimed at you by any means. You are exactly who should have help if you’re trying your hardest but dealt a rough hand and still can’t afford stable housing. I’d rather my taxes go to subsidise your rent than benefit fraudsters

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cherrypez123@reddit

Sadly, this is one of the very few things Americans do better than us (although there’s exceptions).

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niallniallniall@reddit

I'd disagree with that. I think a lot of Americans have a far stronger drive to achieve success, but more so on an individual scale. More like a race to the top, as opposed to a communal effort to build each other up. We just exist in mediocrity and don't like anyone trying to achieve more.

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rogueIndy@reddit

OP's example is more the opposite, pulling up the ladder.

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Calm_Pressure7011@reddit

That’s a very good take and agreed.

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SurlyPoe@reddit

Because there is a truly massive and incredibly well established industry who's only purpose is to make sure the public never notice that the super rich don't pay tax any more.

That is why the narrative is constantly shifting Right and that is why immigration will never be fixed. Because without immigration there is no more distraction.

Its incredibly obvious that the Tories took every opportunity they could to make the UK's immigration problems worse and more obvious.

They buy and run these media companies for a reason.

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The_Demosthenes_1@reddit

Welp.

Let's say you're a garbage making $75K. You somehow scored a house renting for $2500/month. After paying this you don't have to much left to live like the baller you always wanted be.

Next door there is a lady who doesn't want to work and gets to live for free. While you have go to work like a sucka.

Ok....no big deal. Maybe she's disabled. Or not white. Maybe she's a survivor from one of the 911 towers. Ok, you get it. She's an oppressed person and needs a hand.

But then over the next decade, 100 other people move intonyour neighborhood. And you find out they are don't feel like working and pay $100/month in rent because poor lives matter.

Wonder if a reasonable person might be upset that he has to work like a sucka while these Larries get handouts.

But I must be a crazy person. This can't possibly be a real life scenario across the USA in 2025.

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Civil-Koala-8899@reddit

This is AskUK

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The_Demosthenes_1@reddit

Are you saying you would never see a similar scenario in the UK?

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Civil-Koala-8899@reddit

No. I’m saying it’s odd to immediately start talking about the USA in a U.K. thread. Not everything needs an opinion from you guys

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The_Demosthenes_1@reddit

But we are the center of the universe.

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Certain_Abies6451@reddit (OP)

Are you lost? Its Ask UK not USA mate and your society has way bigger issues.

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The_Demosthenes_1@reddit

Are you saying you would never see a similar scenario in the UK?

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bradpitt3@reddit

There is a British disease of not celebrating other peoples success and not wanting to know how they can be more successful. Quite a contrast to the USA where success is celebrated and people want to get on. I have lived and worked in both. America loves winners.

I think part of the issue in the UK is the lack of incentive compared to the USA. In the US if you can get a better job your salary will be significantly higher and you get to keep most of the increase as marginal tax rates are lower. So people can see a way to get on and to have more stuff (cars, property, holidays, consumer goods etc). On the negative side in the USA if you are in a minimum wage job you get little government support and your life will be hard. So getting a better job and earning more is very important. In the UK a better job will only pay a little more (pay scales are less steep than in the USA) and government support for low paid people and the unemployed is much stronger including free health care. So the incentive to get a better paid job is much lower.

If you are a kid in the USA your parents tell you if you want a better life you have to get a better job and if you end up in a minimum age job then your life will be tough. In the UK some parents may tell their children to work the system and that working hard is useless.

There have been some times in the UK where things have changed. Under Thatcher (who I hated) then money was celebrated and the working person with loadsamoney was a common thing. It was normal to see working people make money and buy property and have cars and holidays and move on in life. Also under Tony Blair there was a more "can do" outlook and success was celebrated. But he ruined his reputation with Iraq and the UK lost its way forward. These days both political parties seem to focus on government control rather than incentivising people to make better lives. That needs to change if you want British culture to be more positive towards successful people..

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GhostRiders@reddit

Decades of media manipulation.

In the 70's, 80's and 90's people stood together and fought for the things which benefitted the whole and boy did the various Governments not like this

When Blair cosied up with Murdock and won the GE in 92 the Tories relaised the power of controlling teh narrative, changed track and sold their souls to Rupert Murdock, Lord Rothermere, Sir Fred Barclay and Evgeny Lebedev who between them own the vast majority of all News Outlets in the UK.

Their plan was to cause as much discord and division as possible. They pushed out stories and narritives designed to turn groups against each other, young v old, white v non white, Heterosexual v Homosexual, its all the fault of Immigrants, its the EU, its Muslims and so on..

You had the birth of Poverty Porn TV Shows like Benefits Street, Can't Pay Take it Away, Jeremy Kyle etc which were designed to make most desperate, needy and vulnerable in society look like they were lazy feckless cheats.

Things reached a new height with the Social Media when the realisation that only a few people in the entire world had the ability to push whatever narrative you wanted to hundreds of millions around the world in an instant and here we are today.

Whilst everybody is busy fighting and blaming each other those very few grow richer and more powerful as each day passes in the full knowledge that nothing will ever happen to them.

The gap between rich and poor has never been higher than it is today and will continue to grow at an alarming rate until the population realises that that real fight is between us and the those very few rich people.

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Fdr-Fdr@reddit

Seems that your expertise on Rupert Murdoch doesn't extend as far as being able to spell his name.

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Agile-Day-2103@reddit

I’ve felt for a long time that a lot of people are just genuinely a bit sadistic. I don’t mean in a sexual way (necessarily).

But a lot of people just seem to take genuine pleasure in other people suffering.

I don’t know if it’s because it makes them feel better about themselves, if they’re just completely unempathetic, or what, but the outcome is the same either way.

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Dunkmaxxing@reddit

Probably stems from a desire to feel superior because they feel unhappy/unsatisfied and need to put someone else down so they can be 'better than'. It's some weird form of cope, or the person is just psychopathic and enjoys tormenting others. A lot of people lack empathy and have been mistreated by authority, so that could also be part of it.

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Danpez890@reddit

There's more bullies out there than you think. They think in extreme hierarchies. The lower you are the less you are

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Dunkmaxxing@reddit

The companies and government are to blame. A lot of people are miserable cunts and think somehow that even if the poor people stopping getting benefits they would see that money.

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Individual_Stay3923@reddit

it’s called the pecking order….not nice but biological …we do need to rise above our biology.

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Feeling_Pen_8579@reddit

Because it sucks to work hard and see nothing from it.

I live in the same cul-de-sac as social housing houses, they're quite nice, we live in the flat block opposite, east London for reference. It's quite sickening at times knowing that having done everything 'right', I will never own a house like the one given to people who all they did was lie on their back. Sure, it's necessary but when your grinding 12-14 hours days to keep the lights on in your flat and your staring across at a 3 bedroom house with garden all paid for by your council tax then its quite hard for resentment not to build. It certainly does between the flats (which are majority foreign) and the social houses (which are English).

It's why the 'scroungers' label sticks, anyone who grew up or lives in a working class area knows people like this.

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Cautious-Fun3840@reddit

You are a big part of the problem. Sorry to be blunt, but its so incredibly arrogant to say things like "all they did is lie on their backs" and "scroungers". Unless you know them all personally, you have zero basis that these people are lazy, work shy, or scrounging anything. You're just bitter mate.

I grew up in poverty and worked solid and with a shit ton of luck I am not having to fight to keep the lights on in my flat. So maybe less focus on the less fortunate and being bitter, filling in blanks with soundbites from the daily mail, and maybe work a bit harder on getting yourself out of that situation you find yourself in.

I am sure you work really hard, but its not their fault you can't get ahead. Do you use Amazon? I know you do. Amazon paid £0.00p in corporation tax in the UK despite making BILLIONS. That tax would go a long way to helping our country, but who do you blame? Sally across the road with her social house.

Less bitterness and punching sideways/down, more action and punching up.

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Feeling_Pen_8579@reddit

I know a few personally, so yes I know the circumstances.

If you read what I said it was in answer to the question as why theyre vilified, that was answer, I can blame Amazon, sure, but I can see Sally and still think all she did was knock a few kids out and carried on the cycle and be frustrated someone taking advantage of a much needed system like that.

As I said elsewhere, if you grew up in a working class area then you know these people, my question is, did you?

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Cautious-Fun3840@reddit

I did.

Again with the judgemental ramblings filling in your own blanks. You sound like you're reading a script from the daily mail.

If you think the problem with this country or your life is sally who pumped out kids for benefits, then you really need to do a bit more reading, and im not talking tabloids or social media.

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Feeling_Pen_8579@reddit

Its not judgmental, it's fact, blame can be multifaceted and attributed across the board.

Yes I think Sally is one of the many problems, not THE problem.

Honestly, it's all or nothing with someone like you isn't it? No set of problems can have a multitude of layers.

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Cautious-Fun3840@reddit

its "fact" based only on your anecdotal, extremely narrow world view and therefore an incredibly small sample size. Its not proof of anything over arching, at all.

Benefits thieves are a problem, and its criminal, but they make up such a tiny percentage of taxpayers outlay - theres a fact for you. irrefutable.

Your angst and bitterness is misdirected.

Cautious-Fun3840@reddit

Why are you not angry about mega corps, or the likes of Bezos not paying tax here despite operating and profiting here? Why?

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AstronautDouble9036@reddit

That’s the neat part, you can be angry at Bezos as well!

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Cautious-Fun3840@reddit

You never see it though, or hear it

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AstronautDouble9036@reddit

Must be new on here then.

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Feeling_Pen_8579@reddit

My god man, tell me you're the preachy type without telling me.

You've gone an absolute tangent whilst simultaneously ignoring what was said.

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Sabreline12@reddit

They're not looking for genuine answers to their question or different perspectives, they just want people to agree with them. It's what spending all their time in online echo-chambers does.

Ironically they accuse people of scapegoating while to then all problems are caused by "muh evil billionares"

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Appropriate-Cycle-31@reddit

Sally is a net taker. Sally just takes. Amazon employes people, Amazon has a platform to help you sell your items, Amazon provides opportunity and services. Sally breeds and provides a terrible example for the generation she’s dragging up.

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Cautious-Fun3840@reddit

This is so warped and ridiculous, I am not dignifying it with a response beyond this.

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Appropriate-Cycle-31@reddit

Very noble of you, oh dopey one. Take the moral high ground with the scrounging “too depressed to work” crowd.

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NostalgiaMerchant7@reddit

Clearly have a lack of understanding of basic politics

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NostalgiaMerchant7@reddit

Because money doesn’t come from thin air. If the government introduced universal basic income, people who are paying taxes are effectively paying for the income of the population.

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Comfortable_Love7967@reddit

A girl I went to school with got pregnant at 18 the man disappeared and she got a nice 2 bed new build council house with underfloor heating etc, while not working.

5 years later she was able to buy the house at a massive discount without a deposit because she was able to use the “free” equity from rtb as a deposit.

So she got 3 years of rent paid for her, then 2 years of dirt cheap rent while working then got probably 30-40k off the price off the house.

So she got free rent for 3 years, got a job and paid very low rent then bought the house.

Ultimately this was a common scenario and is going to grate on the people stuck private renting paying a fortune in rent while trying to save a deposit.

I have 0 problem with social housing, but they shouldn’t be able to buy it and it should be reassessed every 5 years, someone earning 50-60-70k a year doesn’t need a council house in the majority of the country.

The exact same people could be 50-100k better off at 25 just because they managed to get a council house at 18 instead of private renting paying

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Icy_Gap_9067@reddit

I used to work with a guy who had 3 kids, his wife didn't work and he paid £200 less rent a month than me for his 3 bedroom house to my 1 bedroom flat. He could buy that house after 5 years and was planning to, so his kids could have an income later on. I don't blame him, he worked hard but I was fucked off at a system that would allow this to happen. Even just if I could have had the rent saving it would have made a massive difference to my quality of life, let alone the opportunity to buy a place.

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Comfortable_Love7967@reddit

That’s the thing, I 100% would do exactly the same in that situation, but they shouldn’t be able to do it.

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BigDumbGreenMong@reddit

I've always felt that in England we'd rather see a thousand hungry children starve than risk one "undeserving" child get a free meal.

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pajamakitten@reddit

Which is why free school meals for all is so contentious, even amongst left wing voters. They hate the idea that Tarquin and Jemima will get a free school lunch at their private school, so hate the idea that free school meals for all should be for all.

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Certain_Abies6451@reddit (OP)

Yeah thats exactly the attitude im talking about. It genuinely makes me feel sad to see it.

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Responsible_Desk413@reddit

I feel quite skint at the minute and don't really use any of the services I'm paying tax for. The police are non existant around here, I've got no medical conditions and don't have kids. The thought of paying more taxes really isn't that appealing, especially where there's neighbours of mine who don't work (disabilities apparently but there's nothing I can see) going on a holiday I can't afford while I'm slaving away 40 hours a week to pay for it.

I'd rather they had a little less and I had a little more. That's why I want their life to be a bit shittier and mines to be a bit better.

Or maybe I should've just have got signed off on the sick and joined in smoking weed and drinking all day instead of working all the time.

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pajamakitten@reddit

especially where there's neighbours of mine who don't work (disabilities apparently but there's nothing I can see)

You need to get a job as a PIP assessor, you sound like it would be a perfect fit. Not all disabilities are visible. I am not saying your neighbours might not be taking the piss, however benefit fraud of the type you are describing is much rarer than the media makes it appear and claiming the likes of PIP is insanely difficult when you have a genuine, severe disability, let alone if you are a dosser.

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Certain_Abies6451@reddit (OP)

But do you honestly think those neighbours (i have almost identical to your description) are the reason you have less? I think they do take the piss but they take very little compared to the actually powerful

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BoxAfter7577@reddit

It’s the same thing though.

You’re doing the same thing. You’re just doing it towards ‘the powerful.’

For the record, I think you are right in your assessment that you could help people more by focusing on rich people taking the piss, but there’s still a hint of resentment in your comment towards the powerful.

And that is because people instinctively care about fairness. Whether you rail against rich people unfairness or poor people unfairness, you are people taking more than their share and it is frustrating to watch. The difference is, while they are the minority, we’ve all known or seen a ‘Don’t work/Won’t work’ families on benefits that are taking the piss. They tend to be fucking loud, inconsiderate and hard to ignore.

Whereas the billionaires taking the piss live in gated communities, go to places you can’t afford. Out of sight out of mind. They also own the papers and media that bring us stories about benefit fraudsters. Unless you really piss of Murdoch and co, your indiscretions as a billionaire are largely private

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XihuanNi-6784@reddit

Really? Because I've genuinely never seen one. I'm not sure if your equivocation is really as apt or as smart as you seem to think. It's not "the same thing." Because the "more than their fair share" is so many orders of magnitude higher among the rich that it simply cannot be equated to the "poor loud and inconsiderate" family on benefits you describe. The difference is we can see one of them and the other we can't. But being resentful of the rich is different because it is based on facts and not mere perceptions or prejudices or biases.

I'll note many people who seem the most resentful know nothing about the people they assume are on benefits. They don't know what these people do for many. Many people are closet sex workers, or sell drugs, or run online businesses. My dad is just the sort to assume that someone doesn't have a job. And I'm sorry but unless they come up and tell you they're on benefits - hasn't happened to me - then how do you know? It's a big game of telephone and even then, benefits in this country are piss poor. The vast majority of people in receipt of benefits also work. So this discussion is just moot. They have a negligible effect on us. The politicians like to point at them because they're an easier scapegoat than the real people who are stealing from us i.e. the super rich.

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BoxAfter7577@reddit

Maybe you are fortunate enough to live in a nice enough area that you’ve never seen one of these families.

Anyone who interacts with standard comprehensive schools will likely have come into contact with families like this. (My partner is a teacher so she is probably aware of their financial situation more than most.)

My first house was a former council house and there was one family on that estate, still council, that fit that description. They did not work because I used to talk to them and they bragged about how they ‘played the system.’ Although, her longtime partner did also sell cocaine. I also had a friend who worked with his brother.

Do they make up most of the people on benefits? No. On that estate there must have been 40 houses, about 5 including mine were privately owned and the rest were social housing. There were maybe two troublesome families, but everyone was aware of them. Because we saw the police raids, heard the fighting and the screaming, put up with the abuse. People have a inflated sense of awareness of these sorts of people because of the way they act.

If you are privileged enough to have never encountered people like this, good for you, but it’s naïve to pretend they don’t exist.

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Kindly_Climate4567@reddit

25% of people in the UK are registered as having a disability and 1 in 10 are on some from of benefits. That's insane, unrealistic and completely unsustainable.

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mattcannon2@reddit

Lindsey oil refinery has gone bankrupt owing £125,000,000 in taxes.

The rich are just not paying taxes, the taxes that are getting paid (by PAYE employees) are going to other people's benefits.

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UK-sHaDoW@reddit

Tax rises will fall of PAYE tax piggies. Not the super rich.

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Tacklestiffener@reddit

The "no-money" and the "so-much-money" are sucking the life out of the tradies and middle classes. And then the equity in their house will go for £8k a month elderly care run by giant companies and there won't even be anything to inherit.

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Tacklestiffener@reddit

(disabilities apparently but there's nothing I can see) going on a holiday I can't afford while I'm slaving away 40 hours a week to pay for it.

My problem with this is that many people will say it's a tiny minority of people but nearly everybody has an anecdotal story about people with lots of unearned money.

Mine is a family we know of long-term job-dodgers with a disabled son. This year to date they have been to Turkey, Morocco, Portugal and Spain. It's plastered all over FB along with her nails, her lunches out and spa days.

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leahcar83@reddit

They probably have massive debt if they're on that many holidays, and they feel similar to you, thinking 'why should my life be worse because I can't/don't work? Shouldn't I be able to have a nice life?'

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yelnats784@reddit

Exactly, disabled person goes on a few holidays a year they've saved their benefits for and everyone's frothing at the mouth with jealousy. I'm sure the disabled person would love to not have a disability everyday of their life. Yeah they have a holiday but they miss out on so much of life that everyone else gets to enjoy and they still begrudge them a holiday or two.

This world is fucking grim.

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Wonderful_Welder_796@reddit

I’m in the same place, but I’m more angry at the companies and people dodging billions of tax, rather than the disabled who get paid less than a minimum wage.

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cuibksrub3@reddit

I feel quite skint at the minute and don't really use any of the services I'm paying tax for. The police are non existant around here, I've got no medical conditions and don't have kids.

Are you implying that you'd rather pay at the point of service? An American system?

(disabilities apparently but there's nothing I can see)

This is poor from you. There are an incredible amount of non-visible disabilities that result in struggling to work.

going on a holiday I can't afford while I'm slaving away 40 hours a week to pay for it.

Unless you know every inch of their outgoings - you have no right to comment. Perhaps they are frugal when it comes to other luxuries.

I'd rather they had a little less and I had a little more.

Why do you WANT them to have less? Is it because you think that's the only way that you can get more? You are working hard and not seeing value for money. That's caused by things like too low of a minimum wage, or too high of a cost of living. Neither is the fault of your neighbours.

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onegirlandhergoat@reddit

I have been skint before and I get where you're coming from. The others are right, it's not the fault of your neighbour. But watching someone get everything handed to them while you work your ass off to make ends meet would make me feel resentful too.

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Playful-Marketing320@reddit

Your neighbours aren’t the problem.

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AlfieFrancis@reddit

The resentment comes from people feeling as though the system is not fair or equal and so the success isn't deserved.

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powpow198@reddit

"squeezed middle" is a thing - people who work a job, earn money, receive little to no "benefits" and so see themselves as hard done by as they're not rich enough to be "rich" and therefore not need to work, and not poor enough to need help from the government.

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V65Pilot@reddit

Misery loves company.

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SP4x@reddit

Empathy is a muscle that needs regular excercise or it entrophies to a point where the individual looses the ability to use it at all.

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ClarifyingMe@reddit

Individualism.

I watched a good YouTube video which talked about it in relation to how poor the building is in the UK due to privatisation.

He was saying how it got pushed further with Thatcher.

It's all that's constantly pushed out in the media too. Only care about "me and mine" but hasn't quite worked how that works if everyone is just looking out for themselves.

It's a truly cynical "lol" moment.

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UziTheG@reddit

They've sacrificed a lot to own their own home and there are free riders riding on the backs of the surrounding homeowners (in new builds social housing is essentially paid for by the regular buyers). What's complicated about that?

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TheodoreEDamascus@reddit

Domestic propaganda and conditioning.

If everyone wasn't so conditioned to just notice all the problems, and just see shit They might actually look up and see where the shit's coming from

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Woffingshire@reddit

Because everyone wants to be like the people doing better than them, but the chances to upgrade your life to get there are so slim that the only feasible alternative is for them to have some kind of downfall to reach your level.

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gareth1229@reddit

That is a sign of decline in economic and living standards. When people are in trouble they look for something to hold on to and if they lack awareness, it doesn’t matter whether it’s positive or negative energy that they hold on to. Unfortunately, negativity sells very easily and this is exploited media, be it traditional or social media.

You can reverse it through spreading awareness such as your post. Thanks!

The country needs leadership and re-education, in my opinion.

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AdPale1469@reddit

we are a bitter bunch aren't we.

"F U, C"

Is our national motto is it not?

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yearsofpractice@reddit

Hey OP. 49 year old man here. Through all of my years of experience, I’ve come to the following conclusion;

It’s because - by and large - people are cunts.

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--already--taken--@reddit

i think the phenomena you're referring to here is called envy?

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Dependent_One6034@reddit

To do with housing - Alot of animosity from some comes directly from the right to buy scheme.

We had people who worked their bollocks off to buy a £150-250k house for themselves - Then you have people getting placed in houses worth £300-500k social housing.

Then the people put into this social housing offered the chance to purchase the house for cheap. And I mean... cheap.

I know a bloke who got put into social housing. He and his partner bought the house for £50,000 (i think late 80s?). The house is currently valued at £2.8million.

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PNWHome95@reddit

I don’t know why so many have that level of bitterness. They view assistance as a hand out instead of a hand up with something even as basic as food for children. It’s appalling.

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IFEdinburghUK@reddit

I'm from another country and I live here in the UK now, so I'm sorry if you're not asking for opinions and comments from people who are not British originally, I just wanted to share that I've lived in multiple countries and I would say that that's not something that's unique to the UK at all, it's more or less the same in other places as well. Maybe that's just a human thing, not a British or [insert any country] thing.

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GRANDOMAS@reddit

Good answer. When I was on universal credit for a few months after getting laid off, the worst reactions were from people in the same situation, oddly enough. It’s like there’s this weird pride in "doing it tough" and a fear that if someone else gets even a little help it somehow invalidates their own struggle

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Sad_Needleworker517@reddit

Good for you. The UK's problem is, and always has been, thinking it's special (in a good or bad way). We're not special or exceptional, clearly.

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Tacklestiffener@reddit

I live here in the UK now, so I'm sorry if you're not asking for opinions

That is such a quintessentially British thing to say. You definitely fit in mate ;)

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IFEdinburghUK@reddit

Oh yes... I've also instinctively said sorry to a lamppost when I bumped into it recently. Does that make me British (enough) now? :)

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Federal-Star-7288@reddit

It’s actually on the citizenship test, if you’ve ever apologised to an inanimate object, you’re in.

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Certain_Abies6451@reddit (OP)

Totally welcome outside views, I've lived in 5 diff countries and I didn't really feel that that attitude was as prevalent but its possible I just wasnt integrated enough to hear it!

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Historical_Project86@reddit

I think society and the current political and financial systems have created a competition for finite resources. Since competition is then encouraged all the way through a person's childhood, what are we left with? Hopefully not something which comes as a surprise.

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GRANDOMAS@reddit

I had a chat about this recently with a friend from uni. We both grew up low income, but she’s always had this mindset of "if I suffered, you should too." Meanwhile I’ve always thought the opposite: why did we have to suffer in the first place and how can others not go through the same?

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libsaway@reddit

There are always finite resources. Nothing "created" that - poverty is the general rule for humanity. That we've crawled out way out of it is incredible, but you need to remember it needs the effort of billions of people to stay out of it.

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Historical_Project86@reddit

True, but those finite resources can provide for everyone. Scarcity has been engineered.

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libsaway@reddit

That completely depends on your definitions. Can we materially provide a minimum level of food, water, and shelter? Absolutely, and I'd argue we do.

Can we do it for the homeless guy who refuses to live anywhere but the street? Not really.

Can we provide a large detached home for everybody in the area they want? No.

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Delduath@reddit

Can we materially provide a minimum level of food, water, and shelter? Absolutely, and I'd argue we do

There are 161,000 homeless children in England alone.

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libsaway@reddit

I did work in the homeless charity sector for a few years. Those figures are functionally all children in "temporary" accomodation, which can be anything from hotel rooms to short-let council tenancies.

In any case, while far from ideal, it's vastly better than they would've had at basically any point before a couple decades ago.

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Delduath@reddit

That's irrelevant. They've got a much better existence than infinite other hypothetical scenarios you can think up.

Your point was that you think a minimum level of shelter is provided to everyone in the UK. Do you think living in temporary accomodation because they don't have an actual home meets that criteria?

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libsaway@reddit

Honestly, yes. It's not ideal, but it hits the minimum. I've lived in worse conditions and paid £800/month for the pleasure!

Doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to make it better, but you gotta draw the line somewhere.

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Delduath@reddit

I can't agree with that at all. Temporary accomodation isn't a home, it's not a place of security where one can be comfortable and live their life. It's a roof over their head that can be taken away on a whim.

We absolutely have the power the build enough affordable homes for everyone in the country, and those with the power to make that decision aren't doing it because scarcity is more profitable.

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libsaway@reddit

People in power are trying to. Seriously. Go along to a local planning meeting. It's not billionaires turning up to stop them. It's billionaires (or rather, real estate developers) trying to make money by building those houses! It's your Green voters, your middle England homeowners, your retirees who are blocking construction.

Most are well-intentioned. Some are not.

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XihuanNi-6784@reddit

I don't think this is a new thing. I'm not that old but I'm not that young, and it's been a solid undercurrent in the politics of many people for as long as I can remember. Even before the 08 crash.

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Questjon@reddit

The problem isn't the competition, that's a healthy and efficient way of assigning value and distributing resources. The problem is inheritance, the competition doesn't work when some people is born with assets that can generate more than the average person can earn.

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Certain_Abies6451@reddit (OP)

Idk id consider myself extremely competitive but that generally manifests in wanting myself to 'win' (whether it be football, a promotion, getting a good grade at uni) rather than wanting other people to 'lose' so im not sure youth competition is creating negative social impact. We've always had it right? Lack of resources maybe but wouldn't that manifest more as self interested than spiteful to others?

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barejokez@reddit

As I read your list, every one of those examples could be seen as a zero sum game.

someone has to lose a football game if I win, obviously
my company will only promote 1 or 2 people in my department per year, and pay rises come out of a communal pot - for me to get an above inflation rise, someone has to get below
my university degree would be rendered relatively meaningless if everyone graduated with a first class honours degree. If it happened like that every year, it would quickly be devalued.

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Certain_Abies6451@reddit (OP)

Thats true but at the same time you dont think about wanting other people not to get it, you think about wanting yourself to get it. Or at least I do! I dont play a game thinking 'I want you to lose' i play thinking 'I want to win' and I think that that isnt the same mindset even if in practical terms the aim is the same.

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barejokez@reddit

Oh I completely agree, that is the proper mindset to approach all of those situations. But its easy to see how the mindset gets twisted to trying to drag other people down rather than build yourself up.

Certainly in each of your examples I can think of people I know who "play the game" with that mindset.

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Tacklestiffener@reddit

My Dad (an excellent sportsman) brought me up to be a good winner and a good loser. Being a good winner isn't about rubbing someone else's nose in it or laughing at their failure. Sometimes losing is a fact of life and unimportant if you've done your utmost.

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hitchaw@reddit

You can’t have winners without losers

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Historical_Project86@reddit

True, but then combine that with media portrayal of anyone who is seen to extract more from the pot than they contribute, and you have a breeding ground for negative thoughts.

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Tacklestiffener@reddit

extract more from the pot than they contribute,

I think we portray "the pot" wrongly. Some people believe the government just has loads of money to hand out without realising where it comes from.

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Old-Acanthopterygii5@reddit

Of course they do, the people that actually exploit the system, the rest of the people, the laws, and the tax heavens pay for it. They really don't want us to remember what we have known for centuries, who the actual leeches are... billionaires!

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rnuume@reddit

I think this comes down to human nature and most peoples basic need to see the negative first. A good example; although not related, is this. If you had a painter in your home carrying out a room by room paint job. The painter paints the walls, ceilings, skirting and doors. He does a beautiful job. There is however a tiny paint mark on the glass panel of one of the doors. Instead of being wowed by how great the painting work is, we all want to find the one bad thing to to criticise and therefore we strive to search for imperfection. Finding faults leads us to make the remark, to comment, to somehow diminish a person that we're all desperateto make. It's hard for humans to accept perfect, I think mainly because we ourselves aren't perfect. Failing that some are just horrible and want to destroy a person's happiness at any cost.

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Swagnets@reddit

People work hard for very little. It can take people years to save up to buy a house. It can also be very trying to afford rent and bills as the cost of living continually rises faster and faster and wages stagnate. People do not like seeing others get things for nothing that they work very hard for.

I don't necessarily agree but it's not a complicated reason.

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OkGlass6902@reddit

Some of the time its this yes.

You gotta be happy for people that have the opportunity to live in social housing though and if they didn't it won't change your someone's high bills and rent situation.

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libsaway@reddit

Thing is though, it does! When a government builds social housing, it's doing it with money taxed from it's populace, generally the populace that doesn't get social housing. All those "affordable rent" mandates in new builds? Paid for by inflating the price of the market rate units.

That behaviour makes the peeple who pay for it disillusioned. When money goes on public services, everybody benefits, even if poorer people benefit more. But the beneficiaries of council housing are the people who get it, not the people who pay for it.

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Bigbiznisman@reddit

Ahh yes, social housing. That's definitely whats inflating the market rate...

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Comfortable_Love7967@reddit

Selling off council housing massively inflated the market rate

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OkGlass6902@reddit

Yes hahaha.

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XihuanNi-6784@reddit

This is incorrect and just shows the ignorance of people. What sort of public services are you talking about that everyone benefits from? There are whole parts of the state I've never interacted with outside of the benefit system. But I DO benefit from them anyway. Why? Because if they did not exist, other people in society would be worse off and more likely to take what I have by force, or otherwise make my life less pleasant.

Take the council housing. You say, "only the people who live in them benefit." That's not true at all. Council housing reduces abject poverty and desperation. What's the biggest cause of crime? Poverty! Therefore, those of us not in council housing absolutely do benefit from council housing even if we don't live in it.

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OkGlass6902@reddit

Do you receive anything from the state that not everyone uses?

I've never got cancer and often treatment can cost over 1million pounds so I'm paying for something I've never used with your logic??

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libsaway@reddit

Cheap rent is usable by basically everyone. Cancer treatment is not.

I benefit from the health service. I benefit from good roads, the police, good public transport. Even if other people benefit more.

I don't benefit by having a neighbour get cheap rent, paid for partially by me.

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OkGlass6902@reddit

You benefit because we have a wide welfare state that covers many different things some of which you yourself use and some you don't.

Maybe there will be a point in the future that you will need social housing or a loved one will be in social housing and you'd soon change your mind.

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libsaway@reddit

If you reread my comments, you won't actually see me saying council housing (or other similar subsidised housing) shouldn't exist. There are biiiiiig issues with our current implementation of it, but the fundamental idea is fine, at least if we insist on the kinda if planning system we have now.

Hell, I'd love to have the council as my landlord with me paying full market rate!

What annoys me is the childish opinion redditors have about it. That it's an unallayed good. That we should just make everything council housing all the time, fuck the rental sectors, they're all leeches anyway.

Everything is a tradeoff. If you want to be a serious person in the world, you cannot forget that.

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Realistic-River-1941@reddit

That's what school focused on when I was a kid. I assume some people fell for it.

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Dizzy_Association315@reddit

I think people fall into two camps

Either

I struggled and I don't want others to have to go through the same

And

I struggle so why shouldn't everyone else.

And since COVID more people have veered towards the latter. People who previously might have felt comfortable on their income are now struggling with the cost of living, and seeing others being "helped" when they aren't kind of fuels a sort of jealousy towards them and perhaps bitterness that in their view the other people have it "easier" (when in reality most of us are struggling as we're all fucked)

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Dunkelzahn2072@reddit

It's literally the guiding principle of socialism.

It's really expensive to drag everyone up, far easier to drag everyone down to the chosen level.

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Sad_Needleworker517@reddit

You're extrapolating a tiny sample size ("this sub", other social media) into the vast majority. Just not true.

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Otherwise_Craft9003@reddit

Crabs in the bucket, same in my local town, the local town Facebook page, reform have been conflating for the last month the afghan resettlement scheme with illegal immigrants in hotels. They faked an attack on a girl, Turning Point showed up promptly and organised agitation, now conservatives are doing the same thing this week.

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thorny_business@reddit

If you're paying your own way, why wouldn't you resent some people arbitrarily being chosen by the government to get a free or highly subsidised home? And the money paying for that subsidy is coming out of the taxes that could have fixed the awful road you have to drive to work on, or a doctor so you can actually get an appointment.

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libsaway@reddit

This. Public infrastructure and services benefits everybody, even if it benefits the poorer (who couldn't pay for a private alternative) more.

Council housing benefits the tenants. Not the people paying for it.

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AnonymousTimewaster@reddit

Council housing benefits the tenants. Not the people paying for it.

It benefits the people paying for it if they operate a business and now have paying customers. It benefits everyone to not see homeless people on the streets begging and harassing people so they don't starve. It also benefits everyone to have less poverty and anti-social behaviour because that's less time the police have to waste dealing with it.

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cuibksrub3@reddit

They aren't doing wrong by taking what is offered to them.

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libsaway@reddit

But it may well be wrong that it's being offered in the first place.

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Sabreline12@reddit

Can't be surprised at taxpayer being resentfull then.

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fatguy19@reddit

Easier option

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extremewaffleman@reddit

Money, money, money…and money. It’s Compulsive Greed, it’s a flaw in the human condition for stupid people that can convince themselves of ANYTHING THAT BENEFITS THEM and only them…

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Ruhail_56@reddit

Look around and at the state of the country. Why wouldn't people be miserable and angry? Aspirations and moving up feel like they get beaten and taxed out of us and like it's all for nothing.

Most of us are working for appalling wages, can't afford our own place and it's damn likely no matter what we will die working. The class system has destroyed the country. No services feel functional. People also see how unproportipnal everything is.

Hard work is a lie sold to the working class from people who hoard and lie about everything and pretend it's all on us. I have absolutely no problem with people on sickness leave and benefits. Game the system if you need to. This country doesn't do anything for us, so always look put for yourself and get around it all. The lies sold to mileanels, have come he to roost. The Internet and social media have opened up everyone's eyes from a younger age that its all for bullshit.

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Available_Dream_7276@reddit

As a general life thing, it's far easier to drag others down then build yourself up. Fixing the issues in the country would take waaaaaay more than just "stopping the boats" or "taxing the rich" it's far easier to just drag others into the dirt with you than put the effort in to band together for the greater good. The sad reality is things aren't gonna get better and time soon, it's a generational issue with multiple factors that need addressing

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Responsible_Care4894@reddit

Social housing has become an issue as it has become increasingly difficult to pay for housing across the board.

Right to buy is the biggest issue. Originally, they were meant to use the profits to buy new social housing but that never happened. So the social housing market just depleted and depleted. So fewer people get this opportunity.

So certain very lucky members of society get the benefit of lower rent for years, and then they have the opportunity to buy at a discounted rate, while further depleting the social housing stock.

And all of that is happening while many in society are struggling to buy a house even on an U.K average salary, you can see why it breeds resentment. It wasn't so much of an issue when owning a house was a realistic prospect for the majority of working people.

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Exact-Character313@reddit

Because our resources are going to people who don't deserve it

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Midgar918@reddit

Dunno but those people will have a stroke when they realise general artifical intelligence is 50 to 100 years away.

And when that happens society will have to shift to a give everyone for nothing society.

Almost no job will require human input anymore. Because a sentient ai will always be able to do it faster, better and safer.

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ScHoolboy_Stu@reddit

I don't know what comments you're addressing so I may be wrong here, but maybe these people are in the same boat as me: - Social housing/services are great for UK citizens who really need it, eg the disabled, serious mental health issues etc. - a lot of people abuse this system. You'll find redditors saying "that almost never happens", but as someone with multiple family members who work for DWP, it is a huge issue. - lots of people come to this country, get everything given to them for free with no intention of getting jobs, integrating, or contributing. This is a major issue as well.

So my complaint isn't about people who need help getting a better life, it's about people sponging off of mine and my colleagues hard work and the taxes we pay with no intention to contribute themselves. And I'm fairly sure whoever you're talking about would have similar views.

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deepspacetelemetry@reddit

Just a lot of angry/bitter types who love ragebait and being horrible to other people.

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banco666@reddit

Because UK is in decline and there's a shrinking pie. Growth is over.

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Certain_Abies6451@reddit (OP)

But is there actually an issue of resources or is there actually more than enough but its not distributed at all well so the top 0.1 have more than everyone else combined

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libsaway@reddit

Our wealth inequality is actually quite low, places like Germany and the Netherlands are far worse than we are.

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DifficultTrip8112@reddit

It's a mystery to me but so true ...

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ScottRans0m@reddit

Just humans in general. You’ll even find those closest to you are more comfortable with you not doing well than doing well. Humans are strange.

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TheCarnivorishCook@reddit

"I saw it earlier today in this sub with people being resentful towards other people who have social housing."

Because not everyone has it, couch surfing between friends with the odd night sleeping rough in the train station having "missed" the last one, I hope you enjoy paying tax to subsidise the rent of someone in a 5million pound 3bed house in westminster, wheres your class solidarity!

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Turbulent-Pilot-1436@reddit

Because people are busting their asses off with nothing to show for it whilst single mummy has sky tv, brand new everything and all inclusive holidays abroad due to extra financial help.

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darybrain@reddit

It might be easier to love than to hate, but it is much quicker to hate than love.

Snide comments with no thought behind them can seem like a quick win to these folks. Most when pressed won't be able to properly justify their outbursts or will put it down to banter. Those that can are actually worth listening to as they may have valid points or just be batshit.

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ControversialVeggie@reddit

The real reason is that all these people’s value systems are entirely materialist and stone cold materialists rely on other people’s failures, or ‘failures’, to feel better about themselves.

It’s just a sad fact of the modern American capitalism that has permeated British society and left a large portion of society unable to see the value in human beings who aren’t desperate to win the rat race.

A lot of people in this country saw the industrial revolution and then the successes of capitalism as reasons to deny the humanity of the poor, religious, spiritual and anybody who isn’t interested in risking ruining their mental and physical health to acquire status symbols. Society’s ethics have been routinely silenced by this kind of materialism since the Victorian era and now it’s become embedded because we’ve never actually had the vocabulary to articulate why it’s a problem.

Until these sorts of people realise that we all matter and that society is a complex matter that needs to prioritise wellbeing for all, and until we better define the place within ourselves that that humanist value comes from to enable illuminating it in others, we will see this kind of vitriol play out.

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Appropriate-Cycle-31@reddit

You’re blaming America for the perceived shortcomings of our countrymen? That’s hilarious. Yeah, it’s America’s fault people in your country are pissed off at scrounging.

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ControversialVeggie@reddit

What? Our society’s economic outlook is in fact almost entirely americanised. The content our digital lives revolve around is almost entirely American.

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Appropriate-Cycle-31@reddit

So no culpability for the gullible people who just ate it up? You’re just a victim. That’s adorable.

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ControversialVeggie@reddit

You started this with a strawman that was barely relevant so it’ll take a lot more than that before I give any relevance to your thinking.

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Appropriate-Cycle-31@reddit

Oh a strawman you say? Oh no a strawman. You ended with a declaration and then immediately capitulated, and “dignified” me. You’re a clown. Get better, scrounger.

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tyger2020@reddit

'CRABS IN THE BUCKET' is such a reddit trope it isn't even true.

People don't want 'others do worse' they are just sick of unfairness in all aspects of society.

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ubiquitousuk@reddit

Two lessons from economics: (1) a little inequality is necessary to make everyone better off. (2) Most economic interactions are positive sum, not zero sum.

But most people have close to zero understanding of economics and no willingness to inform themselves.

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Wonderful_Welder_796@reddit

It’s a consequence of wealth and income inequality. There are two groups of people, those who have and those who don’t. A lot of people blame the haves for stopping redistribution, some blame the have nots for ‘not working hard enough’ or catching up, but everyone knows things are fucked. You won’t have one group without the other unfortunately.

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FancyMigrant@reddit

It's easier to pull someone else's tower down than to build your own.

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adfinlayson@reddit

Because aspiration has been taxed out of existence.

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Appropriate-Cycle-31@reddit

It does often feel like working class success is often punished.

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PrestigiousCut9597@reddit

Crabs in a bucket, animals in a zoo. Desperation breeds hate.

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Appropriate-Cycle-31@reddit

Which leads to fear, and fear leads to suffering. You’re describing a certain path.

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Apsalar28@reddit

Part of it is down to there being no safety net for people who aren't right at the bottom of the heap.

Work your ass off for 30 years and manage to get a mortgage and a bit of savings then if you get made redundant or you'll get about £2k worth of state support over 6 months and then nothing until all your savings are gone and your house has been repossessed.

When you're looking at other people who've never paid into the system getting a huge chunk more than you ever will paid out it does feel fundamentally unfair.

I don't want money taken away from the people at the bottom who need it. What we need is something in place that gives you some recognition of number of years you paid in if you fall on hard times. A lot of European countries you'd get a % of your last salary for a while. Something along those lines or the amount of savings you're allowed to keep increased for every year you've worked would be a huge help to how people feel about the system.

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sunheadeddeity@reddit

It's called sado-populism. People don't care if they are hurting, so long as those they hate are hurting more.

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Grower_munk@reddit

Yea like I'd happily be punched in the face every day as long as you did it to James Corden too.

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sunheadeddeity@reddit

Erm that wasn't quite what I meant but go off 🤣🤣

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SamMacDatKid@reddit

The same reason the tories were in power for so long. Theres a lot of cunts in this country

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SnooRegrets8068@reddit

Plus, punching down is easier. They can't fight back.

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Wisegoat@reddit

It’s also much easier to identify than the rich. Rich people usually do it all legally. We all know people who cheat the system for benefits.

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SnooRegrets8068@reddit

Well yeh the US for example don't either with high net worth individuals as they have lawyers.

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Harrry-Otter@reddit

Because the view is that something is being taken from you and given to someone else to provide them with something you don’t have.

It comes down to people feeling unfairly treated ultimately.

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Cautious-Fun3840@reddit

No, it comes down to people being told they are being taken from, by the right wing media, and the same people believing it. Its right wing propaganda, simple. The problem is, the right wing media aren't being honest about who it is taking from us, its the corporate elite, the 1%, but it tells the easily swayed that its the working class, poverty class, and refugees.

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Appropriate-Cycle-31@reddit

So who’s behind this again?

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mpt11@reddit

"No such thing as society" has unfortunately stuck. Promoted by the hateful newpapers

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Appropriate-Cycle-31@reddit

If “society” was so eager to go along with the statement, maybe she was right? It’s not like she magically made it happen with her words.

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Illustrious-End-5084@reddit

You think that’s different anywhere else ?

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lonehorizons@reddit

I’ve got a feeling this post’s going to be locked soon… IMO it’s due to our class system. It’s part of the law and unwritten constitution of our country so the ruling class have to ensure it continues to be part of our culture.

You’re supposed to accept your place in the hierarchy and allow the rich to sh*t on you, and in exchange for that there are groups of people you’re encouraged to see as beneath you and worthy of your contempt.

It’s been black people, Jewish people, Irish people, LGBT people, Eastern Europeans, refugees, Muslims. I refuse to play along and blame all my problems on other poor people.

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RichieLT@reddit

Commenting on Why do so many in the country seem more passionate about wanting other people's lives to be worse than wanting everyone's (including their own) to be better?...that two Ronnie sketch springs to mind.

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lonehorizons@reddit

I can only remember the fork handles one, sorry 😄

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Key_Dragonfruit_2492@reddit

It’s the same people that live on benefits and refuse to work anything that requires any effort. While also wanting the moon and the stars.

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Clark-Kent@reddit

Class system and also race

People love a subtle hierarchy in society

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Lord_Vetinaris_shill@reddit

My total cod psychology take - we evolved to live in smallish hunter gatherer groups where you couldn't really carry someone not putting the work in. We have a deep sense of unfairness when we see people getting something for nothing, especially when we aren't. I think it's a pretty natural response to seeing people getting given housing for free when you yourself have to slog your bollocks off week in week out just to keep a roof over your head, I really don't think this feeling is in any way exclusive to the UK.

Add to that the sense that, if you're working, a chunk of the tax you're paying is going directly to funding the housing for people who aren't working. I think most people would agree that someone who can work, but simply won't, shouldn't be supported by the state (i.e. us), they should get off their arse and contribute. The debate then moves to who can and can't work and do we have the balance right, which is exactly a part of what labour were trying to make a bit of headway on before the world kicked off at them and they chickened out.

The debate has been pretty toxic around this for a number of years though and so many people revert to the assumption that if someone's on benefits then they're a freeloader. Obviously not true, that said though I do myself know three people who are claiming sickness benefits while also working cash in hand in various building jobs.

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NuclearCleanUp1@reddit

There was once a post-war dream for everyone to be housed in council housing, rich and poor.

Housing as a right, not a privilege

A different world is possible...

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renter_evicted@reddit

Misery loves company

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off_of_is_incorrect@reddit

Mate, you know the answer is due to politics, which is a no-no here.

Crab in a bucket mentality as well.

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Fraccles@reddit

They don't, they're just bad at communicating. They just don't see the work they feel obligated to do to survive to net them that much better of a lifestyle than those who get given it.

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Oceansoul119@reddit

Look at who owns almost all of the media and what message they are constantly pushing.

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cloche_du_fromage@reddit

Same as the ones who want more taxes to make things better, but only paid by other people?

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Endless_road@reddit

Could say the same about taxing the rich

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SentientWickerBasket@reddit

Look at a tabloid. It's all about punching down (you may be working-class in a mouldy house, but this refugee is a lower class than you!) - partially because it makes people close to the bottom feel better to hear that they too can punch down like those above them, but mostly because if they're not constantly being directed to punch down, they might start thinking about punching up.

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Thevanillafalcon@reddit

Weird isn’t it, I notice this every time there’s a Twitter thread on train tickets being too expensive, without fail you’ll get drivers who never get the train losing their minds

Train ticket prices mean nothing to them at all, it would mean nothing to them if it was cheaper but they get so worked up

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UmlautsAndRedPandas@reddit

Zero sum mentality.

The belief that if somebody gains something/is given something, then somebody else must be losing out somewhere along the line.

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CrystalQueen3000@reddit

Targeting their anger against low income or vulnerable people is easier than targeting those in power and the one percenters, which is where the actual issue is.

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Cautious-Fun3840@reddit

Absolutely 100% correct.

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Cautious-Fun3840@reddit

Unhappy people tend to punch sideways/down. Happy people aren't punching anywhere. Its sad, resentful, bitter angry little minds who just want to project their own misery onto others, and resent anyone else getting a leg up.

In reality everyone should be punching up. The real enemy is the corporate elite, but the same people punching down and blaming the less fortunate seem to celebrate the corporate elite/capitalism at that gross scale.

In other words, simple minds are easy to fool.

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BOLTINGSINE@reddit

I want everyone to be happy and successful however i have a hatred for the people that dont deserve their riches IE: Bonnie blue, Jake paul etc.

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Muted-Landscape-2717@reddit

It's called divide and rule. Get enough people to offend over things that do not really matter.

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CoolNinja8100@reddit

People are happy to be pissed on by several rungs of the ladder above as long as they themselves get to piss on someone and feel superior to them.

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Glittering_Vast938@reddit

Yes I find this attitude very prevalent amongst pensioners who think the young have it too easy.

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SaintLanaDelRey@reddit

Resources are limited, housing is limited, land is limited.
So when someone else gets the "social housing" that means that others cannot get it.

It is a zero sum game, there is no other way around it. Its only natural for people to be resentful that someone else got something for free, while they themselves got nothing.

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Certain_Abies6451@reddit (OP)

Resources arent actually that limited, Theres 27 million homes in the country, for example. Seems to be a distribution problem not a resource problem. Social housing isnt free, unless you get housing benefit which is means tested.

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vonscharpling2@reddit

27 million sounds like a lot, but there are also a lot of people to compete for those homes. For example, there are 7 million more homes in France which has the same population as us.

They don't have a higher percentage of social housing, or a better distribution of housing than us, but they spend less of their income on housing and their homes are larger too!

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scorpiomover@reddit

If you have less resources, there’s more for me.

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Certain_Abies6451@reddit (OP)

It seems like the attitude is generally that people would rather we all had less than they had more though.

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scorpiomover@reddit

Because wealth is relative.

There’s a fixed supply of money. So each pound is actually a percentage of the total currency, which is exchangeable for, and represents the total value of goods and services.

My wealth is a fraction of the total wealth. Your wealth is a fraction of the total wealth.

If my wealth increases by 25%, then my relative wealth is 125/100 = 1.25

If your wealth decreases by 25%, then my relative wealth is 100/75 = 1.333

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BoxAfter7577@reddit

I remember reading a study that proved that more people would rather work for a company earning £80k where everyone else earns £70k than a company earning £90k where everyone else earns £100k

Parity and fairness is something built into the human psyche. We didn’t rule the world by being the strongest, fastest animals on the planet. Humans were successful because we were able to intelligently work in large groups to achieve unthinkable things. That sort of social conditioning is in our DNA.

What always confused me is how some people see the inequities of someone living on benefits but fail to see the inequities of billionaires. That we spend more on chasing benefit cheats than tax cheats. Because if we chased billionaires and tax cheats (often one and the same) then we can make the world fairer and improve people’s lives

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jonrosling@reddit

Tall Poppy Syndrome.

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arashi256@reddit

Because that's the way the 1% have engineered it through the media. If people are concentraing on hating on others nearer to them then they're not uniting to demand better lives for all which might mean asking the people in charge some uncomfortable questions as a whole. It's by design. It's the same way immigrants aren't "taking your jobs" - your jobs were sold off for pennies to foreign companies by their rich CEOs so they could pay less wages and keep more of the profits for their shareholders.

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onegirlandhergoat@reddit

I agree with your take. Classic divide and conquer. Encourage in-fighting among the working class and they are much less likely to rise up against the system.

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mikolv2@reddit

Who should pay for welfare?

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Tak-Tik-2@reddit

Worse off is a far easier target for everyone to reach than better off

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xorciseurmind@reddit

We’ve been trained to accept low standards of living and struggling for basic things. It’s also easier to punch down on the smaller guy.

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RadicalActuary@reddit

newspaper headlines set people off in fits of rage

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Forward_Task_198@reddit

When you can't punch up, you punch down.

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Dirk_diggler22@reddit

In the words of Nicky Wire from the Manic street preachers,

It's not enough to succeed others must fail My unhappy mantra I wish I could escape I wish I could escape

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lil_chunk27@reddit

I think that a lot of people feel they worked very hard for what they have (and for different people, there will be varying degrees of truth to this), so they view it as an injustice when they see others surviving or even thriving with support they did not receive as it seems to diminish their hard work, or make it seem unworthwhile.

I think people also want to have the idea that they made the right choices in life reinforced and validated - and so other people's success suggests you might have made the wrong choice somewhere. If enough people are having a shitty time and you are having an ok time, you can pretend its down to your canniness and not the luck of genetics, family wealth or many other things. I think this is why so many people are harsh on homeless people - they think homeless people are making a choice, rather than having been unlucky in whatever way.

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SidneySmut@reddit

When the crabs say "fair", what they mean is "not better than me because I'm a miserable, unaspirational loser, so everyone else should be too."

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ice-lollies@reddit

At the moment I think it’s because people’s sense of justice is unbalanced.

Whether true or not the perception is that some people work hard, follow the rules, pay tax, and that it is being spent and distributed unfairly.

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KindlyReflection6020@reddit

Most people do not mind paying taxes for a safety net to exist. However, once the safety net is there you will always have people who work out how to manipulate the rules so they can living in the safety net without having to work or contribute to society.

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OkGlass6902@reddit

I used to be resentful when I was younger as my folks never seemed to have much money despite living in a nice area and owning a home.

Now I see it in a different light and I'm just happy for anyone who can get into social housing.

Anyone that can live with affordable rents is a good thing and stopping social housing doesn't make people who live in the private sector have any of a better life.

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Diligent-Till-8832@reddit

The country is filled with cunts and ran by cunts!

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Mountain-Corgi-6833@reddit

I will give you a perfect example in Scotland. Glasgow rangers the new ones and the dead one are more interested in Celtic doing bad than their own team doing good . It’s so weird but then they are a weird bunch .

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SilasMarner77@reddit

There are a number of factors but Thatcherism and its atomisation of society definitely contributed towards a me-first mentality.

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West-Ad-1532@reddit

😂😂😂🥱🥱🥱

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SamVimesBootTheory@reddit

Crabs in a bucket mentality and misdirected anger, easier to go after your fellow man who you're likely only a few steps from ending up in the same situation as them rather than the cause of the problem

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Throwaway91847817@reddit

Everyones a miserable bastard

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PraterViolet@reddit

WHY OH WHY OH WHY?

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Flitdog@reddit

Easier to hate and complain that to be constructive.

We should encourage and support each other, but people would rather eat shit and force you to smell their breath just to make you suffer a little

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