Denmark pushes to suspend Hungary’s EU voting rights
Posted by Naurgul@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 153 comments
Posted by Naurgul@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 153 comments
Pick_Scotland1@reddit
It would be interesting to see Hungary without EU funding
Orban can finally complain about something actually happening to him and Hungary rather than always complaining with his hand still held out for funding
-justarandomguy-@reddit
Hungary has been without EU funding for years by now
rlyjustanyname@reddit
That sure would be news to Hungary given tbat it received more than 4 billion than it contributed in 2024 or 2% of its GDP.
https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/12/09/eu-budget-who-pays-the-most-into-the-eu-and-who-gains-the-most
-justarandomguy-@reddit
since then I jave looked into it (made a google search). apperently out of the 30 billion euroes that was intended for Hungary in the past few years around 20 billion is blocked and 1 billion is permanently lost. so it might not be completely without EU funds, but factoring in the projects that were canceled by the EU because of the political situation, I dont think it is a reach to say most EU funds did not reach the country recently
rlyjustanyname@reddit
The funds that were halted were the corona recovery funds. Hungary is still receiving 6 billion euros a year while contributing 2 billion. This is 2% of their GDP. Hungary isn't some sort of victim for not receiving 10% of their GDP over 5 years, given that they are not in compliance with the rule of law requirement.
-justarandomguy-@reddit
Wrong. And I never claimed Hungary is a victim, so I would appreciate if you stopped putting words in my mouth. The covid funds are not even in the scope of this discussion, as they were a completely seperate sum. The reason for its blockage is also an entirely different affair. The money I am talking about is the EU cohesion fund (of which around 10 billion out of the 20 billion is still blocked) and the RFF and REpowerEU funds (0.8 billion of the 10 billion has been refinanced as of February). Neither of these have anything to do with Covid.
rlyjustanyname@reddit
Ok fine then. It doesn't change the fact that they are receiving 4 billion in surplus EU funding. And I don't think they should receive any of those either.
-justarandomguy-@reddit
you are free to think whatever you want to
stevothepedo@reddit
Didn't they negotiate an end to the suspension of funding a year or so ago in return for abstaining from a vote concerning Ukraine?
-justarandomguy-@reddit
I havent heard of this but to be honest I am not sure, although just a few months ago the commission or parliament or whatever EU orgainization had to wait for Orban to go out for a coffee and start the vote on a topic involving Ukraine when he was not present to guarantee it is passed, so at the very least the Ukraine part of the "negotiation" is questionable. what I do know is that one of the major promises of the current Hungarian opposition is the recovery of blocked EU funds and if they are to be believed this is not a small sum, so I think it is safe to say most EU funds intended for Hungary are blocked at the moment
there_is_no_spoon1@reddit
Yep, exactly this. Fuck Orban if he's so anti-European and pro-Putin. He's proved Hungary no longer deserves a say.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
For what?
Hungary’s opinion is not motivated by Russia’s views or anyone else’s.
Hungary is opposed to giving money to Ukraine indefinitely.
It’s pretty telling that you can’t accept people who disagree with you but also that you can’t argue against them so you instead claim they are foreign agents/traitors.
rlyjustanyname@reddit
Hungary is a net recipient of EU funds in the order of 1.2% of GDP every single year. That's more than half its defense budget that it gets for free. So what exactly is Hungary giving to Ukraine.
They just want to hijack yet another issue to leverage even more funding for themselves because the whole Orban government are parasites that need to be removed from the teat of the EU.
obviousaltaccount69@reddit
Hungary is killing their democracy rule of law and free press. We do not want a dictatorship in our union end of story it has nothing to do with having a different opinion are you serious?
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
So you want to invite a country that is literally a dictatorship into the EU?
Ukraine has no elections. They have no free speech.
Every opposition leader is sanctioned or in jail. Most parties have been banned.
It’s pretty clear democracy is not important to them and it isn’t important to many EU leaders.
It is hypocrisy to only point out dictatorships when it is people you don’t like but when people you like are dictators, you defend them.
obviousaltaccount69@reddit
Yes yes ivan Ukraine evil. Putin hero only want to defend russian minority in ukraine
cultish_alibi@reddit
Hilarious
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/language-rights-of-hungarian-minority-in-ukraine-at-the-heart-of-kyiv-budapest-spat/
January 2024, Hungarian Foreign Minister Péter Szijjártó asked "for the return to its national minority of the rights it enjoyed until 2015"
https://iwpr.net/global-voices/ukrainian-trident-replaces-hungarian-eagle-countrys-west
Why would they like people that do this again?
invinci@reddit
Doing what excatly? Your first link is to an article that litteraly states, that they where working on it, in regards Hungarian languages schools, but the war happened. The second is Ukraine changing a statue in Ukraine, to be more Ukrainian.
Please read articles before trying to use them as sources.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
If you have to say “working on it”, especially in this context, then you aren’t working on it.
Especially considering that Ukraine already had solved the problem.
They fully complied with international and EU laws on minority rights between 199-2014.
Kyiv could fix this problem overnight if they wanted to.
All of the laws have already been introduced.
They have many reports from the EU telling them exactly what they need to do.
But they don’t do it. Because they don’t want to.
A war is not an excuse. Sign a law, allow Hungarian language instruction.
Hungary has offered many times to provide language teachers for free.
This is the problem.
You have some people claiming they get to define what it means to be Ukrainian.
The people in this region were all born Ukrainian. They have been Ukrainian citizens. They have lived and worked in Ukraine.
Are you saying that they aren’t Ukrainian because of a regional symbol?
That is literally fascism.
Stiff_Cook@reddit
Sure smells Russian in here
usefulidiotsavant@reddit
Because of the arcane treaties of the EU requiring unanimity on multiple decision areas, Hungary will always be able to blackmail and double deal with Russia and China while also receiving their European funding. There is zero chance Hungary will be excluded since multiple conservative allies have pledged their support if that vote is on the table. It's all diplomatic theatre.
The only salvation for the EU is generalized QMV voting for all issues, including budget and suspension of funding, block level foreign relations, military spending etc. Unanimity should perhaps be only required precisely for article 7 decisions, and even then provisions must exist to simultaneously remove two countries at the same time if such a duo is formed and severely disrupts the union.
Good luck trying to push such reforms in this political climate reminiscent of interbellum Europe.
sinkmyteethin@reddit
Not arcane you muppet. That's the only way the EU works, if small countries can veto big countries. It never was and never will be able majority deciding. That's the treaty we signed, that's the treaty we keep.
usefulidiotsavant@reddit
That's exactly what I said, the EU is legally deadlocked into tolerating fascism and countries working against the rest of the members.
But is definitely not the only way it could work. The sooner we recognize this and form an EU-Max coalition of reformers willing to work together outside the veto rules and treaty limits, the sooner we'll break the deadlock.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
It would be a very bad sign if that happened.
It would be setting a precedent that you can remove people’s voice just because you don’t like their opinion.
The implications for that are very serious.
And it’s pretty stupid to do all of that for a country that isn’t even an EU member!
Pick_Scotland1@reddit
Or if they break the rules of the EU you disbar them. You want to be in the club you got to play with on the club rules.
Hungary don’t like it they leave like the UK
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
But they aren’t breaking any EU rules.
I’m so sick of people for the past 3+ years making emotional decisions in this bizarre groupthink way that runs counter to everything they claim they support.
Orban is much more pro-European than Margaret Thatcher was or even Charles De Gaulle was.
You have always had people in the EU who have opposed certain policies.
It is only recently that they have stopped being accepted and that is a really bad sign.
Pick_Scotland1@reddit
So neither Margaret thatcher or Charles de Gaul where in the EU as it is today and neither took handouts while complaining like a bitch
Things like Hungarys “sovereignty laws” breach EU rules due to them limiting the freedom of association freedom of expression and privacy laws due to the invasive nature of the investigation department
The EU is finally standing up to its political bullies within its own organisation and actually enforcing its rules that the country has to agree on to be a part of the bloc.
Again Hungary can leave if it doesn’t like these rules
katttsun@reddit
Polemics at the Supreme Soviet in 1956 be like when PM Nagy declared a possibility of neutrality. The European Union is mad, like the Warsaw Pact was mad, simply because Hungary is willing to negotiate with the other side of the wall rather than pretending they're an existential invasion threat. Russia can't even get through Ukraine. They pose no real military threat to the EU. All of the threats to the EU come from its essentially Stalinist worldview.
Pick_Scotland1@reddit
I can’t wait for the EU to invade Hungary must
This is the most disengaged person take I’ve ever seen
katttsun@reddit
"Political backsliding" is a good term. If the Stalinists had it they would have definitely used it against Hungary in 1956.
Pick_Scotland1@reddit
Political backsliding like control your opposition is exactly what Stalinist want rather than free opposition
But Hungary can have their controlled opposition who doesn’t go against the governments control
katttsun@reddit
The EU is doing exactly what the Warsaw Pact did. Democracy that doesn't tolerate dissent isn't.
Pick_Scotland1@reddit
Did the EU invade Hungary or did I miss that?
katttsun@reddit
The invasion of 1956 was preceded by about 10 years of political pressure campaigns and budgetary restraints imposed by Stalin. Hopefully Hungary, and its Visegard Group friends, leave before it gets as bad as it used to be.
Cactus1105@reddit
Ok so this is just rage bait or Russian propaganda how can you even compare the two? Orban is cementing his regime and tries to destroy democracy in his country, of course the fuckin club of democratic countries aren’t too hot for a dictatorship who’s also aligned with its major enemy wth
katttsun@reddit
I'm sure France is strong enough to force a regime change if it's necessary.
chris_dea@reddit
I don't think it's a bad sign to stop tolerating hate. Being anti-lgbtq (to name just one issue on the Orban regime's agenda) is not an "opinion" and shouldn't be treated as such.
sinkmyteethin@reddit
Maybe stfu cause you don't matter in this topic. As a EU citizen, unlike you, I don't want lgbt topics anywhere. Keep it behind closed doors, nothing more.
chris_dea@reddit
Lol, cope harder snowflake
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
Hungary is not an outlier in being anti-lgbtq. All of Eastern Europe is like that. Romania. Bulgaria. Poland. Etc.
Even Ukraine has huge problems with their attitudes towards lgbtq, despite them passing some laws to give the appearance of acceptance.
chris_dea@reddit
So what? Doesn't justify Hungary's bigotry one bit.
katttsun@reddit
It does, actually. Poland is not only anti-LGBTQ it's also anti-Ukrainian nation now. The EU has no interest in stripping voting rights as long as you toe the party line and vote in the EU interest to fund what the EU wants. They don't even care about migrants.
Hungary is simply being punished for voting against particular budgetary things and not because of any internal laws.
katttsun@reddit
Communist backsliding wasn't appreciated in the Warsaw Pact, either. Hungary knows. Ask them.
Pick_Scotland1@reddit
When has the EU invaded a country retard?
cultish_alibi@reddit
If they hate the EU so much they should leave. The EU shouldn't have to tolerate countries within it that are trying to destroy it and the values of the countries that WANT to be part of it.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
lol. "if you hate ____ why don't you get out!". This is like when people in America tell Black people to "go back to Africa" for protesting discrimination by police.
It's such a braindead way of dealing with different opinions.
I-Main-Raven@reddit
"Different opinions"
katttsun@reddit
The EU should withdraw back to the Low Countries, France, Germany, and Northern Europe. That's what the Euro was designed for. Just get rid of PIGS and Eastern Europe entirely.
It won't, at least not until it goes bankrupt, because it's the modern day Warsaw Pact.
sinkmyteethin@reddit
They've been without funding for years what are you on about. Fuck the eu for doing this
Background-Tap-6512@reddit
Lol not only they are not getting funding but they are paying fines like Poland for not receiving migrants.
Pick_Scotland1@reddit
Yeah they would t proceed asylum seekers correctly but they are going against Denmark who probably have one of the strictest immigration laws rules in the EU but Denmark manage to follow the basic rules of the EU
PomegranateHot9916@reddit
I think this is ultimately for a good cause as we have seen very clearly hungary is at the moment at least voting for the sake of benefiting a foreign power rather than to benefit our Union.
especially insulting to some of us who are actively being antagonized by that foreign power.
with this I am referring to russia infringing on danish airspace among other shady business in the baltic sea.
if you ask me, since hungary loves russia and putin so much then they can go ahead and join the russian federation instead.
restricting parts of their voting powers is a kindness, they should just get kicked out.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
No they aren’t.
Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they are “supporting a foreign power”. That is just what people say when they don’t have any other arguments.
Hungary has real reasons to vote against Ukraine.
The main one is Hungary’s decade long legal battle with Ukraine over minority rights.
Hungary has successfully argued in court that Ukraine is breaking international and European Union law by vastly decreasing the usage of Hungarian in Ukraine by native Hungarian speakers.
That absolutely violates EU law. The EU has issued countless reports chastising Ukraine over their language policy.
And Ukraine hasn’t made any corrections.
Why should they? Ukraine knows that they can do whatever they like and Europe will still pour in money and Europe will still bring them into the EU.
There is also economic considerations. The amount of money the EU has given Ukraine is enough to develop the Baltics up to the level of Germany.
nonviolent_blackbelt@reddit
Sure, just because someone disagrees doesn't mean they support a foreign power. But when they disagree with you because they support a foreign power, then yes, they support a foreign power.
If Hungary were seriously concerned about the rights of Hungarian speaers in Ukraine, they would push for Ukrainian ascension procedures to begin, because Ukraine would have to address any violations of EU law before they could become members. And once they became members, EU level courts could make sure that any violations of hungarian speaksers (and other language speakers, including Russian) would be addressed. Hungary is not doing that. Because that is just a pretense.
Can't apply EU law over a country that is not part of EU. If you want to do that, you have to first get the country to the step of ascension talks where they work on harmonizing their legislation with EU legislation.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
But they aren’t disagreeing with you because they support a foreign power.
You are simply making that argument without any basis.
Hungary and Orban oppose Ukraine for several reasons, mainly:
1.) the economic cost of the conflict
2.) Ukraine violating the rights of the Hungarian minority in Ukraine.
3.) Orban and his government believe that Zelenskyy and his government are not interested in diplomacy.
4.) Hungary does not see any change happening with the conflict. More money will just result in more casualties and more destruction with nothing to show for it.
5.) Given that, Hungary believes the money is better spent elsewhere.
Every other EU member has had to bring their laws in line with the EU before joining.
If Ukraine wants to join the EU, then they have to address their violations right now. They don’t get a free pass.
Even entertaining the idea of bringing Ukraine into the EU despite their violations weakens and diminishes what the EU stands for.
It also sets a precedent. If countries can get in without adhering to EU standards, others will do the same thing.
Ukraine can fix its violations. No one is disputing that. But they choose to not fix them.
They choose to not give their national minorities the basic rights & freedoms granted by the EU because Ukrainian leaders don’t believe in that.
They never have.
But Ukrainian leaders still want the EU money. They still want Brussels to pay for reconstruction & development. They still want to move anywhere in the EU.
nonviolent_blackbelt@reddit
Says a Russian who regularly pretends to be an American. Actually, they do support Russia, and they follow the twists and turns of Russian announcements faithfully.
Oh, wow, that's a new level of dishonesty, even for you. You pretended I said exactly the opposite of what I said.
Here is what I said:
Ukraine would have to harmonise their laws with EU standards **BEFORE** they became members.
You're a liar, but we already know that.
https://www.loc.gov/item/global-legal-monitor/2023-02-13/ukraine-new-law-determines-rights-and-obligations-of-national-minority-communities/
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
And this is the other problem you have with Ukraine.
They are actually very adept at passing some law that literally just copy and pasted the text from the Venice Commission and they pass it the day before some deadline in order to say “see, look! Progress”
But then there is no enforcement of that law.
And you still have things like the Language Ombudsman, which should not exist and completely contradicts EU law.
Or then you what actually happens to schools and still the Hungarian language instruction goes down.
nonviolent_blackbelt@reddit
Ah, so you lied about "Ukraine not making any corrections". They made corrections, but now you insist that don't enforce them. Now, if that were true, that is something that could be addressed during ascension talks. But if it's just baseless accusations, that won't work.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
https://apnews.com/article/hungary-ukraine-minority-rights-zakarpattia-language-29c4244859b0992d4beacc03450c5d84
It is not enough.
Ukraine is only under immense pressure changing a few legal things.
The entire problem is why is Ukraine stifling minorities in the first place?
And Kyiv has not sufficiently addressed that problem.
nonviolent_blackbelt@reddit
If you read the article you cited, Ukraine has improved the conditions and is enforcing the law you claimed it was not enforcing. And yet, Orban says it is not enough, because his goal is not to win rights for the Hungarian minority there, it is to attack Ukraine.
And you still weren't able to find examples of Orban attacking Russian foreign policy, like you claimed he did.
So, all in all, what your whole premise is based on bullshit.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
I did read it.
They improved conditions at least on paper. But that is not enough.
I believe Orban is right. I also believe that since they are a Hungarian speakers, they are entitled to dual citizenship.
Organ’s goals are not to attack Ukraine, that is just ridiculous thinking.
nonviolent_blackbelt@reddit
The point is, you lied.
You lied that Orban repeatedly attacked Russian foreign policy, but you couldn't find any examples.
Here is another example of how you lied:
Turns out, the article you cited shows that the law IS being enforced.
Obviously, from the article, they didn't improve the conditions just on paper, but in actuality. You just claim it's not enough because if you didn't you wouldn't be able to accuse Ukraine to be mistreating them.
What's the point? Once Ukraine is part of the EU, they will be able to travel across the border without hindrance, their education (regardless of which side of the border they get it on) will be equally respected on both sides, they will be able to get employment and use their language on both sides. Dual citizenship wouldn't really give them any more.
I-Main-Raven@reddit
I respect your valiant effort. You'll never get through to him, as he is very evidently a shill, but I appreciate the concise dismantling of all these nonsense claims and contradictions.
nonviolent_blackbelt@reddit
Yeah, I can't let misinformation stand un-answered. That's a mechanism for allowing the big lies to fester.
TheLilChicken@reddit
wait what? the guy is very openly supportive of russia and their war.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
No he isn't.
Hungary has voted for all resolutions condemning the war in the UN.
Orban has constantly lambasted Russia for its militaristic diplomacy.
He has never supported Russia or Putin or the war.
The level of insanity surrounding this war has reached a point where unless you follow a very narrow but rabid pro-war line, you are considered the enemy.
This is the classic trick the Nazis would always do: denounce anyone calling for peace as traitors and fifth-columnists.
TheLilChicken@reddit
i speak from my family having lived there. i'm not sure if you're a bot or really ignorant, but this is just not true.
nonviolent_blackbelt@reddit
Hungary consistently voted for Russias interest in EU votes.
I bet you can't give me three examples. I'll be surprised if you can find ONE.
When a country is very clearly attacking one neighbour, and talking about attacking others, then yes, people who say we shouldn't support the attacked, and shouldn't prepare against further attack are not our friends. They are on the side of the attackers.
And you are a classic example, a Russian who pretends to be an American.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
No. They did not.
This is the problem with war. It becomes us vs them mentality. Either you are with us or you are with the enemy.
There is no subtly. There is no room for dissent or free thinking. It turns everyone into monsters.
https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/hungary-s-orb-n-calls-russia-weak-for-war-1749471663.html
This one was just a few weeks ago.
And he is right.
You can’t seriously expect people to think on the one hand that Russia is an actual threat to Europe while at the same time not able to beat Ukraine.
This is exactly like when America under George W Bush said “you are either with us, or you are with the terrorists”. It is manipulative.
nonviolent_blackbelt@reddit
> And he is right.
That wasn't an attack on Russian foreign policy, as you claimed he did, it was repeating Russian talking points that Europe should not prepare to defend itself against Russia. So, directly supporting the Russian narrative.
That is a direct lie:
https://nypost.com/2025/04/29/world-news/russia-threatens-nato-nations-with-revenge-nuclear-strikes-as-putin-expands-military-bases-along-finnish-border/
https://eurasianet.org/kazakhstan-pushes-back-at-threats-of-prominent-russian-propagandist
Russian politicians have threatened Azerbaidjan, Khazakhstan, Georgia and other with "the fate of Ukraine".
Saying that Russians are planning to attack more countries is not paranoia, much as Russians would like to portray it as such,
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
That is just recognizing that defending against Russia is not a high priority for Europe. It isn’t.
That isn’t a Russian talking point.
In fact, preparing for some war against Russia is literally exactly what the Russian narrative says
The mainstream Russian narrative now is that Europe is racist against Russia and they want to invade Russia again and break it up into 100 different countries.
Hungary is therefore opposing the Russian narrative and saying that they want peace.
Let’s compare Ukraine with another Russian neighbor: Georgia.
https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-georgia-deal-occupied-regions-abkhazia-south-ossetia-foreign-minister-sergey-lavrov-unga-georgian-dream/
So instead of invading, Lavrov is offering to give back territory to Georgia?
This is mainly because Georgia is willing to work with Russia, they aren’t hostile to Russia.
nonviolent_blackbelt@reddit
But it should be, because Russia is very serious about attacking Europe.
Yes, it is a Russian talking point. Russians have repeatedly said it in all kinds of media. And yes, Russian narrative says that Russia has to attack Europe because Europe is getting ready to fight Russia. However, Russia was attacking EU with covert operations years before Europe ever thought of preparing itself to fight Russia. Russian pretense that they are simply reacting to Europes rearming is deeply dishonest. But that's you all over.
And it is a complete lie. NO, Europe is not "racist" against Russia, Europe is reacting to Russia's imperial ambitions against it's neighbours, including against members of the EU. Saying "hey! You don't get to attack us" is not racist. And Europe would much rather deal with a single Russia than with 100 different countries. Actions of European politicians from 2000 to today make that absolutely clear.
No, that's not what he said. Lavrov said that if the regions that are under Russian control "decide" to join with Georgia, Russia would be OK with that. As long as Georgia, too, was under Russia control.
Because only regimes that absolutely obey Moscow are deemed "not hostile to Russia". The moment they start considering the interests of their own country, they are deemed hostile.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
Russia isn’t serious about attacking Europe.
Paranoia is a progressive disease. Once you become infected with it, you start to see threats in everything and it only gets worse.
Russia does not say they have to attack Europe. That is just projection.
It is projecting your belief, that Russia is a threat and Europe needs to preemptively attack them, onto Russia.
Russia was not attacking Europeans years before covertly dude.
This is just trying to re-create the Cold War because you need some national purpose and can’t find one in the new world, so you are trying to make Russia out to be the USSR again.
yeah but that is what the Russian narrative says. Doesn’t matter if it’s true.
no one is attacking the EU.
Plus given the last 12 months, it is far more likely that the EU would attack Russia first, since some countries think it’s a good idea to deploy their navies to impose unilateral sanctions on Russia.
nonviolent_blackbelt@reddit
Says the guy who lied about Orban attacking Russian policies, the guy who in fact lied about what I said about Ukraine joining the EU in this very thread. Anyway, to claim knowledge about what Russia really thinks you would have to admit you're Russian, and you're not ready to do that.
Clear statements from Patrushev and Medvedev and Putin himself are not projection.
Whoa! Who's projecting now? You won't find any influential European politician talking about preemptive attack on Russia. Russians talk about preemptive attacks. Europeans don't.
Ah yes, I guess Litvinenko had a private stash of plutonium to put in his own tea. And the Skripals made novichock somehow just so they could poison themselves just when Russian agents were in their town "looking at a cathedral". And the weapons warehouses in Czech republic just spontaneously exploded while the Russian military intelligence happened to be in town. Sure.
But then, you're a liar, my dude.
orbis-restitutor@reddit
To everyone reading this: Ignore this person. They are probably a Russian shill, I have looked back several months in their history and they comment a lot starting 4 months ago but post nothing at all aside from a single post a year ago, almost all their comments are on this sub or r/anime_titties, and pretty much every one of their comments is anti-western / pro-russian talking points. There is no point listening to or engaging with this person.
orbis-restitutor@reddit
To everyone reading this: Ignore this person. They are probably a Russian shill, I have looked back several months in their history and they comment a lot starting 4 months ago but post nothing at all aside from a single post a year ago, almost all their comments are on this sub or r/anime_titties, and pretty much every one of their comments is anti-western / pro-russian talking points. There is no point listening to or engaging with this person.
PomegranateHot9916@reddit
well I mean clearly that isn't true as hungary is vetoing their entrance.
you're basically saying ukraine would rather be invaded by russia than not oppress their hungarian minority. and that sounds insane. so insane that I can't possibly believe it.
Daysleeper1234@reddit
I know this site is full of bots and shills from all sides, but if you silence descending voices, then you are not living in a free society, in a democracy so to say. I'm from Balkans and I know how these quasi nationalists function, I ran away from Balkans because of that, in my homeland as in Hungary these politicians steal all the money, destroy the nation, and then blame some mystical outer forces for all of our problems.
That being said, today they will silence someone you don't agree with, tomorrow it will be you. But I know many won't be able to accept that, because it is democracy and rule of the righteous only when they behave how you think they should behave.
yashen14@reddit
A democratic coalition cannot and should not allow one of its members to flagrantly disregard basic democratic principles.
One of the entry requirements of the EU is "don't be an autocracy." If a member state breaks that requirement, absolutely they should have their voting rights suspended.
Southern-Chain-6485@reddit
A democratic coalition would have stolen the Romanian election the first time around.
Background-Tap-6512@reddit
"in a democracy so to say. "
EU is not a democracy, EU legislation comes from unelected Brussels Bureaucrats. You have countries voting to elect a national government but then upwards of 50% of national legislation comes from EU for things nobody voted for.
azriel777@reddit
The EU is super corrupt and this just shows they will not allow opinions that do not align with their one world government goals.
TerminalJammer@reddit
The slippery slope fallacy is a fallacy for a reason, mate.
BallisticFiber@reddit
It's hilarious how EU democracy works, such a failure alliance. Rules are for thee but not for me, as always
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
One interesting thing about the last 30 years of history in the West, is the complete lack of foresight.
We keep on making decisions, that people even at the time say is wrong and will create a dangerous precedent, and we do it anyways.
Removing voting rights from Hungary is a terrible idea and really represents how many EU leaders are divorced from reality.
Hungary has the exact same opinion as 90% of the world’s population.
They believe it is immoral to continue funding and arming a country in a war they are clearly losing.
Mexico’s AMLO said it best:
The amount of aid sent to Ukraine from the EU alone could have brought the Baltics up to the development level of Germany.
And this isn’t even getting into how Ukraine is not a good example of human rights, even before the war.
It looks insane.
orbis-restitutor@reddit
Are you legitimately this retarded or are you a paid russian shill? The world is definitively on Ukraine's side. And Ukraine is barely losing the war, Russia's advance is far too slow to call it victory, it is more accurately described as a stalemate.
What's your point? $ and arms are sent to Ukraine in exchange for the security of the European continent. That's money well spent.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
If the world is definitely on Ukraine’s side, why did only ~15% of the world’s population vote to condemn Russia directly?
Why did less than 10% of the world’s population adopt sanctions against Russia?
Hmm. Let’s see:
Ukraine has lost 20% of its territory
1/3 of its GDP
75% of its natural resources
40% of its population has left
their debt exceeds 100% of their GDP
60% of the population lives in poverty
30% of their population struggles with food insecurity
they have the lowest birth rate in the entire world
Kyiv has already signed control over reconstruction to Blackrock
50% of all future revenues have to be given to America, forever.
an area the size of the UK is covered with landmines
reconstruction costs are in the trillions of dollars
My point is that that money did not prevent security threats to Europe. If anything, it drastically increased them and the money could have been spent improving people’s lives.
The entire European Union is under Article V protection by America.
orbis-restitutor@reddit
what the fuck are you talking about? Do you mean the UN resolutions, that only countries which make up 15% of the world's population voted to condemn Russia? I was talking about what actual people think. Public opinion is extremely favourable to Ukraine over Russia, the votes of countries at the UN do not reflect that.
Because a lot of countries rely on trade with Russia's fossil fuels? I know I'm never going to convince you since you're paid by the Kremlin but I need to ensure people reading this understand the truth.
Yeah, kind of. Russia fully expected to win the war in a matter of weeks, and if their military was actually competent they would have already done so. There wouldn't have been time for western aid to arrive because a competent military would've taken Kyiv.
Anything less than 100% is a massive embarassment for Putin.
So if the aid hadn't come, and Russia eventually managed to take Kyiv, Europe would be in a more secure position? With another Russian puppet state on their borders? Come on.
That's NATO, not the EU, moron.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
Yes those UN votes demonstrate a lot. The fact that so many countries abstained is significant.
Public opinion is not as negative towards Putin as you think.
Relying on fossil fuels does not correlate to how they vote in the UN.
We know this because Europe condemned Putin and Russia yet still imports lots of Russian energy.
Saying “Russia should have won faster” is textbook moving the goal posts. And it shows that we are slipping. We can’t eject them.
Its pretty funny to sit off to the side and snicker “if it’s more 100% it’s basically a loss”.
That is just coping.
And has Western aid actually helped? Probably not. There are a lot of children in Ukraine without dads now.
orbis-restitutor@reddit
Countries don't vote based on their moral compasses. They vote based on the geopolitical reality of supporting one country vs another.
Western democracies overwhelmingly support Ukraine, most countries that don't align with the West nor have strong ties to russia are mostly ambivalent. This doesn't go against anything I've said, most people don't care about most conflicts happening around the world.
Fossil fuel reliance alone does not explain the votes, that's correct. But it's a major factor, along with how threatening the invasion is to the countries' security. This explains why Europe condemned the invasion despite relying on Russia's fossil fuels, as well as why countries like India abstained - they don't support the invasion and are trying to balance their reliance on Russia's fossil fuels with their relations to the West.
The Russians are the ones moving the goal posts. We are currently in year 3 of a "special military operation" that was expected to take no longer than a few weeks.
Russia used to be considered the second strongest military in the world, after only the US. Now, it is certainly seen as weaker than China, and you can credibly argue that France and the UK are each stronger than Russia - it has moved from #2 to at best #3 and quite possibly #5. Yeah, I'd call that a pretty significant loss.
And more than twice that number of Russian children without dads.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
Western democracies make up 10% of the world’s population.
Fossil fuel reliance matters very little when it comes to these things. If it actually mattered, more nations would have opposed the sanctions on Iran. Or Venezuela.
What is actually happening is these countries are analyzing this war in context of everything and listening to both sides.
So countries like India abstain because they accept Russia’s argument on NATO expansion. Same with China and most or Southeast Asia.
To follow the Western Warhawk view, you have to disregard or ignore that, or downplay it.
The Warhawk view argues that the war is bad and a huge catastrophe but opposes diplomatic efforts to end it.
This is where most nations disagree.
India supports negotiations. India also acknowledges that Russia has made good attempts for peaceful negotiation.
By contrast, Zelenskyy signed a decree banning all negotiations.
I wonder which side wants peace?
There was one very famous instance, that was censored in the West, of Putin addressing African heads of states and he held up the actual peace agreement signed at Istanbul. He went over the points.
Whether it is true or not doesn’t matter. Putin is showcasing that Russia wants the war to end, and is willing to negotiate it.
Only psychotic people can both deplore the war and reject peace. That makes no sense to regular people.
But in 3.5 years of war, and using way more munitions, there have been less than half the civilian deaths in Gaza for 8 months?
we were the ones who said it would take 3 days. So we are literally so isolated in our echo chamber that we say something and hear it’s echo and think someone else said it.
I never heard anyone refer to Russia as the second best military. That was always China.
But I guess third or fourth best doesn’t sound as cool.
orbis-restitutor@reddit
Nice try but Russia is a much larger exporter of fossil fuels than Iran or Venezuala. Russia exports around 4.7 million bbl/ay while Venezuela exports 438k and Iran 900k. So Russia has much more leverage in this area especially to large importers like India.
You mean the side of the country getting invaded and the side of the warmonger sacrificing hundreds of thousands of citizens on both sides so that Putin can realize his dreams of recreating the Russian empire?
Russia doesn't have an argument. If the war was legitimately about preventing NATO expansion, then it was the stupidest fucking decision Putin could've made. You realize that the Russian invasion of Ukraine was the only reason Finland decided to join NATO, right? if Russia didn't want NATO on its doorstep it should've stopped invading its fucking neighbours and making its other neighbours decide they want protection. NATO support was decreasing and if Russia had decided to play nice there's a decent chance the organization would become less important over time and even dissolve. Fat chance of that now, and you have only Putin to thank.
There cannot be peace while Ukraine is under hostile occupation. There is no scenario where the west are the warmongers by refusing to accept the invasion of a sovereign state as legitimate.
India just wants the war to be over, India doesn't care about European security. Accepting an end to the war means that Europe is simply allowing Russia's aggression to go unpunished, and this is unacceptable.
The side that didn't invade a sovereign nation
"Wanting the war to end" only on extremely favourable terms is dishonest. If Putin wanted the war to end, he could simply withdraw his military from the entirety of Ukraine. That would end the war. The fact that he hasn't done so means that he has no intention of ending the war and any statement the Kremlin makes to the contrary is a lie.
Don't listen to what a leader says, watch what they do. And Putin's actions paint an extremely clear picture; Russia has no intention of pursuing peace.
How much of your country would you accept being under hostile occupation for the end to the war? I'd like to know.
It was Russia's puppet Lukashenko who said it you stupid cunt. Yes, western intelligence believed it would take a matter of weeks, but Russian intelligence agreed.
Well you're just wrong. Both the general public and military analysts believed Russia was second only to the US.
Having a bunch of bodies and shit shells doesn't mean much against F-35s.
RockstepGuy@reddit
AMLO said it in the US-Mexico stuff, and with a wildly different context that has nothing to do with Ukraine.
As long as the Ukranians want to fight then they should be able to, if they don't want to fight no more then they should just surrender, overthrown Zelensky, lower their weapons and bend over for the Russians, as simple as that, the EU will be next in line anyways.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1lp8cty/ua_pov_busification_in_lviv_tcc_caught_a_man_in/
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1lncmi9/ua_pov_a_man_is_hugging_another_man_to_keep_him/
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1lkemvw/ua_pov_stryi_lviv_region_civilians_are_watching/
This does not look like people who want to fight.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1ldtem7/ua_pov_according_to_ukraines_former_minister_of/#lightbox
100,000 soldiers have deserted.
Also, did you forget this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1hr5nnb/ua_pov_according_to_former_ua_officer_tatarigami/#lightbox
1,700 French trained Ukrainian soldiers deserted before they were deployed.
It is really clear that Ukrainians do not want to fight. Zelenskyy banned elections. He banned people leaving Ukraine. He has sanctioned or arrested every single political opposition figure.
RockstepGuy@reddit
Again, they can desert, throw their weapons and surrender to the Russians, war would be over in 2 weeks if that was the case.
Of course people don't want to go and die in war, the Russians also suffer the same problem with deserters and draft dodgers.
The Rada banned elections in a pretty unanimously vote, they don't agree with Zelensky giving new appointments and oppose it, but they do agree leadership shouldn't change right now.
Martial law is also in place wich of course gives the government a lot of power, but that's just basic war stuff.
Zelensky has also not imprisoned his political opponents and i have no idea what truth social post you got that from, Poroshenko is only sanctioned from corruption cases that come even before the invasion began and still can defend himself, and the other big rumored popular candidate is the last commander-in-chief, who by the way still supports the war effort, just that he prefers drones over lives.
If Ukranians wanted peace then why all candidates are war supporters? shouldn't they prefer a pacifist diplomatic? strange indeed.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
Okay, then the war would be over in 2 weeks. So what?
Did you watch the videos?
Mind you, those are simply the videos from the past 72 hours. There are thousands of videos.
All of them show the exact same thing; people are forced to fight.
A bunch of politicians banner themselves from ever being removed from power? Gee, I wonder why?
And gee, I sure hope they don’t take advantage of that and pass stuff that are very unpopular knowing they can’t be removed.
For the past 3.5 years, anyone who has even criticized Zelenskyy has been called a “Russian traitor” and jailed.
If unity and national survival was actually your goal, then you would bring in everyone as Ukrainians to fight off the threat.
You wouldn’t have a small clique in power who get to decide what is and isn’t in the country’s interests and then label everyone who doesn’t agree as traitors.
That is called fascism.
This was after he banned 14 political parties for alleged “Russia sympathies” even though none of them supported Russia.
This included, crucially, the Opposition Platform for Life, who in the polls before the war did much better than Zelenskyy.
But it didn’t stop there!
And Yulia Tymoshenko has been sanctioned.
Both of those figures are wanted by Russia for whatever.
Of course he won’t win because he can’t return to Ukraine and has been charged with tons of bs Crimes and multiple assassination attempts.
There is also the elephant in the room: Zaluzhyni. The former commander in chief of Ukraine.
This was the man who is actually responsible for saving Ukraine.
He is wildly popular in Ukraine.
However he was removed from his post after revealing in an interview that Ukraine had suffered much worse casualties than the government had admitted.
Opinion polls show that Zaluzhnyi would easily win a presidential election.
Contrary to popular belief, Ukrainians actually want competent people to run their country.
Not a comedic actor who never went to college who was very unpopular before the war and during the war has demonstrated lots of incompetence.
crusadertank@reddit
Yeah especially adding onto your first point. Removing Hungarys voting rights is going to hugely change the EU.
There are a lot of countries in the EU barely avoiding far right governments. This is the kind of thing that only empowers them even more.
SelectivelyGood@reddit
Long overdue. Hungary's government does not share EU values. They deliberate work to make EU governance difficult. Going forward, the EU should think of ways to resolve the anti-democractic practices in Hungary.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
The ironic thing here is that Hungary is actually fighting for European values a lot more.
A central EU value is pluralism. Minority rights, etc.
In addition, apparently another EU value was countering rampant nationalism.
Yet, you have EU leaders going around saying “Glory to Ukraine”?
You have Ukraine stripping minority populations of their rights and identity.
And I’m not just talking about Russians, because apparently everyone would be okay with that, but Romanians, Poles, Hungarians.
Since 2014, Ukraine has adopted this grotesque language policy that eliminates social media in languages other than Ukraine.
Ukraine is the only country in the world where it is legal for a business to refuse service to anyone not speaking Ukrainian.
They even created a language ombudsman with the power to ticket (and even jail) private individuals for using Russian or even other non-Ukrainian languages.
What Hungary is doing is pretty rational.
What the EU is doing is not rational.
nonliquid@reddit
Complete bs. The law doesn't "eliminate social media". In fact, it doesn't restrict private speech in any way. It's also legal everywhere in the world to "refuse service" if you legitimately cannot communicate with the customer. No one is obligated to know every language.
The language ombudsman doesn't have such powers, actual scope of which is almost entirely limited to TV and radio licensing. Absolutely no idea where you got this from.
crusadertank@reddit
I think you are thinking of a different law
Ukraine absolutely did ban various social media platforms and got heavily criticised for it by various international institutions aswell as being extremely unpopular within Ukraine. As it mainly punished Ukrainians
This isn't what the language law says. Article 30 of the "On Ensuring the Functioning of the Ukrainian Language as the State Language" says that communication has to be conducted in Ukrainian. In for example the Hungarian minority areas of Ukraine, if a Hungarian speaking shop owner is speaking to a Hungarian speaking customer, they can be reported to the police for this. They can put a Hungarian translation of their products, but their conversations must be in Ukrainian
nonliquid@reddit
The bans on Russian social media like VK were not motivated by language policy. It's a deliberate misrepresentation.
>This isn't what the language law says
Yes it is. Feel free to verify it:
https://www.tax.gov.ua/diyalnist-/zakonodavstvo-pro-diyalnis/zakoni-ukraini/76996.html
§30.2 ... Інформація державною мовою може дублюватися іншими мовами.
§30.3 На прохання клієнта його персональне обслуговування може здійснюватися також іншою мовою, прийнятною для сторін.
§30.8 У разі якщо крім державної інформація про товари та послуги надається також іншими мовами, обсяг інформації про товари та послуги державною мовою не може бути меншими за обов’язковий обсяг інформації згідно з вимогами, встановленими Законом України "Про захист прав споживачів".
Any more objections?
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
> language policy
It was definitely about language policy.
To quote the first language ombudsman, Tatiana Manakhova in 2019:
> "the dream was always to cultivate, build or construct a powerful, **homogenous Ukrainian monolith**, a society of the like-minded, who speak the ***state language***, having no disagreements of major issues of state.
> Monoliths are created by both **whips** and **pastries**.
This is the worldview of Ukrainian leaders. There is no point in trying to dispute that.
Their policy reflects this overall worldview that Ukraine needs to be a homogenous and "pure" society with a strong central state in order to be a great power.
I completely disagree with that view. I think it is wrong, it is outdated and it leads to ethnic cleansing.
nonliquid@reddit
Yeah, it was definitely due to language policy (from 2019) and not due to more pressing issues like an ongoing war which started in 2014 (the year when VK was banned).
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
The war is no excuse to deprive people of human rights. And Russian is not the only language that has suffered.
https://iwpr.net/global-voices/ukrainian-trident-replaces-hungarian-eagle-countrys-west
nonliquid@reddit
Damn, didn't know UN's Charter of Human Rights included obligations to provide routing to AS8828 PJSC Rostelecom. The more you know.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
Doubt this kind of stuff kind makes it look like you are fascist.
Just saying.
orbis-restitutor@reddit
To everyone reading this: Ignore this person. They are probably a Russian shill, I have looked back several months in their history and they comment a lot starting 4 months ago but post nothing at all aside from a single post a year ago, almost all their comments are on this sub or r/anime_titties, and pretty much every one of their comments is anti-western / pro-russian talking points. There is no point listening to or engaging with this person.
crusadertank@reddit
Ok then can you point to some Ukrainian language social media that was shut down?
It is strange that you missed out §30.1 It is almost like you hide away what disagrees with your point.
I didn't disagree with what you said being in the law, I said that you missed out parts of the law that agree with the other person and you are trying to misrepresent how bad the law is by missing those points out
The law clearly states that the language of customer service has to be the state language (Ukrainian). This means it cannot be conducted in any other minority language, even between people who both speak that minority language.
That is the part you are missing and trying to hide away
nonliquid@reddit
§30.1 is irrelevant to the discussion because it is only applicable to public events by/of government funded organizations. Funny motte-and-bailey you've going on here. It doesn't matter for any "Hungarian shop".
crusadertank@reddit
Do you need to get your glasses or something?
Article 30.1 clearly states
Language of customer service is to be conducted in Ukrainian. There is no provision to allow other languages except for English a little later on
If somebody sees customer service taking place in another language, even if both understand the language, they can be reported for breaking the law.
I am explaining to you the Hungarian criticism of Ukraine and why they are acting as they do.
Just because you don't like it, it doesn't mean it isnt what is happening.
I wasnt just writing a hypothetical example but something that has happened. People have been reported and arrested for selling goods in a shop not in Ukrainian.
That is why Hungary constantly gets into conflict with Ukraine over this Hungarian minority. Because Ukraine is trying to Ukrainianise them and Hungary is against this
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
In 2021, Zelenskyy passed a law allowing the language ombudsman to **impose fines** for the use of the Russian language.
That means if anyone simply uses Russian, not trying to speak it to the clerk but just in general, they can refuse them service.
On top of that, the language ombudsman is allowed to impose fines on persons who use Russian at all.
With the war, these fines have morphed and taken on new meaning since now, the language ombudsman has a record of complaints against specific people. They forward their information to the local TCC and those people are then drafted.
Apart from this, you can fire people who use Russian. Multiple fines can lead to jail time.
nonliquid@reddit
https://mova-ombudsman.gov.ua/news/shchodo-shtrafiv-za-porushennya-movnogo-zakonu
Here's an article from the ombudsman completely refuting your point. Feel free to believe whatever bullshit you want buddy. You've never lived in Ukraine to experience it anyways.
nonviolent_blackbelt@reddit
The redditor you're talking to is a Russian pretending to be an American. They are dedicated to spreading Russian propaganda.
orbis-restitutor@reddit
To everyone reading this: Ignore this person. They are probably a Russian shill, I have looked back several months in their history and they comment a lot starting 4 months ago but post nothing at all aside from a single post a year ago, almost all their comments are on this sub or r/anime_titties, and pretty much every one of their comments is anti-western / pro-russian talking points. There is no point listening to or engaging with this person.
SelectivelyGood@reddit
Go back to /r/worldnews
victorpaparomeo2020@reddit
Ok tankie.
H4rb1n9er@reddit
Thank you for providing Orbans opinion in this comment section.
Frosty-Tip5756@reddit
Ah democracy, where you vote how they want you to vote or else they take away your vote.
Its a union of countries, there is no requirement to support being enemies with russia, china, north korea, iran or anybody else the west deems bad guys nor any requirement to be in favor of isreal, saudi arabia or any other country the united states deem good guys.
Its sad to see that propaganda can make users in this very thread support such undemocratic means as kicking out those who dont vote with the pack as a means of restoring democracy. if they remove any country for voting "wrong" then it is no longer anything but a puppet council, just smoke and mirrors, and real democracy is dead.
Runninglaughter@reddit
There is a difference between voting how someone likes and posing a security threat for other members. Russia was, is and with it's approach most likely will be a threat to countries in Eastern part of EU. Those who do not see that are either ignorant or propaganda spiting bots/braindeads.
No one assumed people would be that retarded when they created EU. Now it's time to catch up with rules and memberships
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
What security threat?
Show me the security threat to EU members.
Show me the statements made by Russian officials that are directly infringing upon the security of EU members.
Don’t just make stuff up.
orbis-restitutor@reddit
To everyone reading this: Ignore this person. They are probably a Russian shill, I have looked back several months in their history and they comment a lot starting 4 months ago but post nothing at all aside from a single post a year ago, almost all their comments are on this sub or r/anime_titties, and pretty much every one of their comments is anti-western / pro-russian talking points. There is no point listening to or engaging with this person.
Runninglaughter@reddit
"Statement made by Russian officials" - How stupid can You be? There are hundreds of statements from Russian officials pre Feb 2022 that they won't attack Ukraine. Even days before the invasion. And they did. You ask for proof which is worthless in it's nature. I assume You're Russian? Because Yuri Tarded.
PS - Blyatdvedev did state that Baltic states are theirs https://www.euronews.com/2023/05/17/russias-dmitry-medvedev-claims-baltic-countries-belong-to-russia
Alikont@reddit
If 26/27 countries agree on something then it looks quite democratic to me.
Frosty-Tip5756@reddit
if that is what the founders thought it would have been designed with that in mind. It was purposely not set up to work that way for a reason. the whole point is that they only pass things that everybody agrees with.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
This is exactly what the founders thought and they designed it explicitly for these kinds of scenarios.
It really shows how divorced many EU leaders are from reality and the tradition of the EU.
I mean the EU was created to prevent wars in Europe. Not to perpetually create wars.
The EU was designed to stop hyper nationalism from spreading.
Now EU leaders are shouting “glory to Ukraine”.
orbis-restitutor@reddit
To everyone reading this: Ignore this person. They are probably a Russian shill, I have looked back several months in their history and they comment a lot starting 4 months ago but post nothing at all aside from a single post a year ago, almost all their comments are on this sub or r/anime_titties, and pretty much every one of their comments is anti-western / pro-russian talking points. There is no point listening to or engaging with this person.
Drone30389@reddit
How is it nationalism to support another country that's been invaded?
BallisticFiber@reddit
You need to investigate where those words came from, something something... nazi WW2 ukranians that murdered a lot if poles and jews. It's right there in Google, nobody is hiding it and it's not a conspiracy. That's almost as if Germans would be saying their WW2 famous phrases
Drone30389@reddit
Ukrainian Nazis using it isn't unlike fascists in the USA using the American flag or the Pledge of Allegiance.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
Well the Pledge of Allegiance was written by a socialist.
Trying to flip it around doesn't really work dude.
Why is the EU of all institutions going around saying that?
Drone30389@reddit
Exactly, Pledge of Allegiance was written by a socialist and is often used by and pushed by right winged fascists. Just because fascists use words doesn't mean nobody else can.
The EU is saying it in support of a country that is fighting a country that invaded them and is a threat to the EU, that's why.
PaddyMakNestor@reddit
We do not believe our founding fathers to be infallible. What a ridiculous idea in a changing world.
Mrauntheias@reddit
But the founders did? That's why article 7 exists? It was set up to work this way for this kind of scenario. The whole point is that if a country is working against the EU from the inside, we can stop them.
_El_Bokononista_@reddit
Countries joined the EU under the understanding of the "absolute consensus" rule, an agreement designed to ensure that larger nations wouldn't be overruled by a coalition of smaller ones. It's a safeguard against, lets say, France and Germany having their interests blocked by states like the Baltics.
So yes, Hungary is fully within its rights to be a pain in the ass. If the EU shifts toward majority rule, let's see how many stick around...
Alikont@reddit
Removing voting right is also a part of EU deal that everyone agreed to.
Hungary can leave if they don't like it.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
No. Hungary joined the EU like everyone else with the current rules in place.
orbis-restitutor@reddit
To everyone reading this: Ignore this person. They are probably a Russian shill, I have looked back several months in their history and they comment a lot starting 4 months ago but post nothing at all aside from a single post a year ago, almost all their comments are on this sub or r/anime_titties, and pretty much every one of their comments is anti-western / pro-russian talking points. There is no point listening to or engaging with this person.
_El_Bokononista_@reddit
It is part of the deal, but as the article notes, it is a "nuclear option" requiring strong backing from other EU members, which Denmark currently does not have. The mere possibility of invoking it can also scare currently existing members. There is a reason it has never been used before
safesouthstanding@reddit
They can leave if they want, are veto rights ‘democratic’? Nobody has ever been forced to be part of the EU, and everybody can get out if they want.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
So unless they agree with you, they have to leave?
orbis-restitutor@reddit
To everyone reading this: Ignore this person. They are probably a Russian shill, I have looked back several months in their history and they comment a lot starting 4 months ago but post nothing at all aside from a single post a year ago, almost all their comments are on this sub or r/anime_titties, and pretty much every one of their comments is anti-western / pro-russian talking points. There is no point listening to or engaging with this person.
safesouthstanding@reddit
No, they have to accept that they don’t get to veto a vast majority of other EU members, and if they can’t accept that, then they are free to leave. Just like any other society or union, you don’t get your way all the time.
self-assembled@reddit
They could remove veto rights for all countries. But they won't, because Germany doesn't want to give up power.
Frosty-Tip5756@reddit
they do not have to leave. countries are allowed to have different opinions.
Shirkus@reddit
Different opinions and veto powers are different things. A single vote undermining the votes of the full majority is hardly democratic.
Maleficent-Being-238@reddit
It's a bit different when we talk about the security for multiple nations
DisastrousWasabi@reddit
Hungary is right on the Ukraine matter, that country has no business in the EU atm and wont have for a very long time. Even before the war they were realistically decades away with all the corruption and issues they had/have. Its ludicrous that they are pushing Ukraine while at the same time not willing to give any shortcuts for long time applicants in the Balkans.
But its the EU democracy we are living in right now. Democracy of taking away funds or votes from the countries with different stance, from the people all over Europe which elect the 'wrong' leaders or parties,..
TotallynotAlbedo@reddit
by his same reasoning hungasry can fuck off the eu too, given that he is only in for the money they sent him and then pushes every possible policy putin feeds him
Melkyergas@reddit
No rights for you if you don't vote how we like!
happycow24@reddit
Does it not feel a bit more embarassing for the bigger EU countries when Denmark is telling off Orban for being a little bitch while they twiddle their thumbs?
Fredriksen pls slap that toad around it'll be so funny
empleadoEstatalBot@reddit
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